Special Sneak Peak! JoAG Fancave Ep. 1: The Others

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Little hands says it's time to rock and roll. Welcome, everybody, to our brand new, but in a way quite old podcast, the Joag band Cave. [00:00:24] Speaker B: I'm. [00:00:27] Speaker A: Oh, I like that. Yeah, that's good. Nice little ragtime diddy there. Y'all know me, know how I earn a living. Just regular old Corrigan. But I'm joined here by my friend of nearly two decades and podcast co host of your Kristen Latterrell. [00:00:43] Speaker B: Oh, hi, team. So excited to be. Can't. I'm just happy to be back, man. [00:00:49] Speaker A: Yeah, this feels good. It feels right. This is how things were meant to be. Once stars are know, we've been looking for an excuse. So this is a great chance. It's true. [00:01:03] Speaker B: I had that know electric fan cave get to update it to Jo ag fan cave. I mean, it was far back in my photos, so it was a long time ago that I made that. [00:01:13] Speaker A: The thought has been brewing for a long time. We just didn't quite know what to do with it. Now, once upon a time, we had a podcast called Electric Fan Cave on which we mostly sort of shot the shit about popular culture and had cool people come on to talk about the cool stuff they do, including our pals, screenwriter John Palo, actress Cynthia Wu, and singer Joy Latticoon. But we've got a different vibe here. Since this is a Joag Ko fi exclusive, we're keeping it creepy, introducing Dear Kristen to a new horror flick each month and telling you guys a few extra dark stories and histories in the process. I'm excited about, like, obviously, we have watched many a film, many a TV show together over the years and things like that, but it's kind of the horror genre. Not often. [00:02:07] Speaker B: It's one that I've skipped for a myriad of reasons. Corrigan and I personally am sort of excited because I think it will be fun and a challenge, literally, because I don't want to do it right. Some of them I don't. Some of them I'm like, oh, I'm interested in that. But most of them, there's like, a reason I've gone that you've avoided them. [00:02:28] Speaker A: All this time, which was my favorite. [00:02:31] Speaker B: Like, oh, which one would you watch if you felt like watching? Whatever. Like, if not forced, I'm like, Cory, none of these I wouldn't watch any of you were making. [00:02:42] Speaker A: Yeah, I think what was great about this is that we've already started compiling sort of lists, know, movies for Kristen to watch over, please. You know, if you're listening to this and you have ones that you want her to not, let's not go too hard out the gate or anything. Like we're, I'm not talking like a know things like that, but some good left to middle column horror for Kristen. But we started making a list. But I asked, well, this comes from early Jo Ag, where we made columns of like, left column is like, you could watch it with your kids. It's like your hocus pocus, right? And then middle column is like, you could watch it at a party, like everybody would have a good time, a lot of your bloom house kind of stuff. And then right column is bad times horror. This is for horror fans who you're in it to see the worst shit kind of situation. [00:03:38] Speaker B: Right? Yeah, I'm not that into it. [00:03:41] Speaker A: Right. [00:03:43] Speaker B: And even core is like, oh, make a letter box, Kristen. We can add movies to it. And I was like, oh, sure. So I had a letter box once upon a time, so I had to reinstall it. I had one movie on there that I'd seen, and it was pale blue eye. [00:03:56] Speaker A: I guess it's random. [00:03:58] Speaker B: I'll rate this film. I watched it when I made letterbox and then thought, this is the type of thing I'll do. [00:04:03] Speaker A: Sure. [00:04:04] Speaker B: Anyway, I never did anything else after that. And then also the problem was that I don't even know what scary movie I had to Google. Is that how it happened? Yeah, people, it's like, oh, look them up. I was like, all right. I think I even asked you one of them. I was like, is this considered a scary movie? Because I haven't seen it. And it always kind of creeped me out. [00:04:20] Speaker A: But that doesn't mean anything, right? Yeah, it's like just the vibes were off. [00:04:25] Speaker B: The vibes looked like the trailer looked like it was in the dark. Maybe I was made nervous at nighttime. [00:04:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:34] Speaker B: I had a coworker give me a couple of recommendations. [00:04:37] Speaker A: Oh, nice. But what was funny to me was that not only so, I was like, what are some that out the gate maybe you would think of that you would want to watch? And first you said, none, of course, but then your recommendations were immediately things that already you were nervous about. You were like, well, I haven't seen any of the Freddie, Jason, Michael Myers things. And then you were like, it really scares me. The idea of it scares me. I don't know why you're suggesting this. [00:05:05] Speaker B: And then you just kept, like, naming movies. I was just trying to tell you my baseline of knowledge. [00:05:11] Speaker A: Right. [00:05:12] Speaker B: Which I think it was easier to tell you the movies I had seen because it was three yeah, it was. [00:05:17] Speaker A: Like one of our play when we made you watch it. [00:05:22] Speaker B: Yeah. So that's what I was trying to do. And you know what? I guess there was a point when I thought, oh, you're my friend. You'll keep these confessions safe. And you're like, obviously we're watching all of these scary movies immediately. And I was like, all right. I made a miscalculation. Yeah. [00:05:38] Speaker A: I kind of figured with those major slasher franchise ones like your Freddie Jason Michael ones, we've got to kind of keep those to the time of year they're meant. [00:05:49] Speaker B: Sure. [00:05:50] Speaker A: So normally I'd kind of be like, yeah, start there. But I think we have to save them for their respective. [00:05:55] Speaker B: I like that idea. [00:05:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Right. If it's Halloween, you watch Halloween, that kind of thing. [00:06:01] Speaker B: I remember the 4 July in COVID in 2020. I watched Jaws because I'd never seen it. [00:06:08] Speaker A: Yes. [00:06:09] Speaker B: And I was like, oh, it's 4 July. Everything. The beaches are closed. You literally can't leave your house. I was like, oh, you know what? I'll watch. And it was a delight. And I was like, I'm glad I'm not by a body of water because this would be a no go. I was scared of sharks in my swimming pool as a child. So that tells you how impressionable I was. [00:06:26] Speaker A: It's amazing how common that was as a fear, people being afraid of sharks in their swimming pools. [00:06:31] Speaker B: Honestly, a lot of it had to do with the camera angle. [00:06:34] Speaker A: So in the movie he does the. [00:06:36] Speaker B: Like half in the water camera angle and I could do that with my mask. [00:06:40] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. [00:06:41] Speaker B: So I felt like, yeah. Anyway, it gave it to me. But I loved a themed event, so I am very into. I liked your kind of. You gave me a schedule of some of those other ones on my. [00:06:57] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [00:06:58] Speaker B: Into it. Let's definitely do it. [00:07:02] Speaker A: Let's do it. Yeah. Also themes. If you have thematic horror movies for different times of the year, please do let us know those as well. We're going to be once a month doing this, so give us your ideas. We've got pretty good lists on our respective letterbox and all that stuff, but we want to hear from you. If you want Kristen to watch something and it's, know, horrendous, I'm going to say the gore needs to be kept. That's, that's not Kristen's wheelhouse. It's not. We're going for. We can spook Kristen, but we don't want to give Kristen gory nightmares. There's enough going on in the world. [00:07:42] Speaker B: Without adding, the world's enough of a nightmare, folks. [00:07:45] Speaker A: Right? So that's not what we're aiming for. This is good natured fun here, introducing a horror noob to fun horror things. And before long, Christian, you're not even going to be a horror noob anymore. And that'll be quite a day. [00:08:00] Speaker B: I'll be a horror. [00:08:02] Speaker A: Be careful. I'm like, I don't know where you're going with this, but I want you to think through your word choice before whatever comes out of your mouth. [00:08:11] Speaker B: Friends, if you haven't ever seen an episode of Electric Fan Cave, what you should probably be aware of is it's mainly a vehicle for me to embarrass myself. Yes, horribly. And for Corgan to then spend the next ten years reminding me of. Do you remember that one time when you said that really dumb thing? And I'm like, listen, so anyway, that's something to look forward to. [00:08:32] Speaker A: That's something to look forward to. Yes. I'm just going to out the gate, maybe stop you right there. [00:08:38] Speaker B: That was a good idea because I didn't have anything, but I was worried that something was going to. Cause then I was silent for too long, and you got to feel that. This is an audio medium here. We can't just stare at each other in silence while I think of something. [00:08:54] Speaker A: That is one of Mark's weird things, that he wants to do an avant garde episode of the podcast in which the whole thing is silent. [00:09:03] Speaker B: Right. [00:09:04] Speaker A: Naturally. Naturally. Of course. Why wouldn't a thing that we do. [00:09:08] Speaker B: Why wouldn't I want to just listen to nothing? At least make it an ASMR situation where you guys are doing some sort. [00:09:13] Speaker A: Of tapping and scratching or, like, kind. [00:09:17] Speaker B: Of creepy, but like. [00:09:20] Speaker A: A soundscape, like, dragging. We're Marley and Marley. [00:09:30] Speaker B: I have seen that one, so don't recommend that one. I know. That's, like, a spooky one. [00:09:33] Speaker A: That's not even the scariest Christmas Carol, which is clearly the Mickey Mouse one. Oh, also Scrooge. But the Mickey Mouse one is, like, terrifying. I think that has the most terrifying ghost of Christmas future. Yeah. I remember being a kid and just sitting in this house, like, watching that and just being, oh, no, that's very scary. [00:09:58] Speaker B: We're like, should I be okay? [00:10:01] Speaker A: Am I allowed? [00:10:03] Speaker B: Should I be watching the type of thing you guys make me turn off? [00:10:07] Speaker A: Exactly. Just like Kevin McAllister. Like, you better come abound. I should not be watching this. This is too scary. But shall we get into the others, then, Kristen? [00:10:20] Speaker B: I would love to get into the others. [00:10:22] Speaker A: Let's get into the others. So as we get into this, like I said this month, I made you watch the 2001, right? It's 2001 that this came out. [00:10:34] Speaker B: Sure. That sounds good to me. [00:10:35] Speaker A: I believe it's 2000 period piece, so. [00:10:37] Speaker B: It'S really hard to tell. [00:10:39] Speaker A: Yeah, well, my thought process is I was in high school, so. Yeah, 2001 Haunted house, classic the others. And just FYI for those listening, this will get spoilery. Maybe not in my little history section here so much, but we're obviously going to talk about the movie. So if you haven't seen it and you are concerned about a 23 year old movie getting ruined for you, then maybe turn this off and watch it first. But if not, if you don't like. [00:11:10] Speaker B: Scary movies, it's about to be a delightful review. I think it's maybe funny. Possibly. Probably not, right? [00:11:15] Speaker A: Yeah, you're going to get a totally different idea of the tone of this movie from this podcast than what it actually is. But yeah, if you don't care either way, then keep on keeping on. I'm going to give some history, context and whatnot here, and then we'll actually get into the movie and some of Kristen's experiences and all that kind of stuff. So the movie is set in the aftermath of World War II on the british island of Jersey, which had been under german occupation before this. And at the center of the story is the Stewart family, made up of grace, played by a suitably stressed out Nicole Kidman and relatable kidman and her two creepy children, Anne and Nicholas, who are deeply allergic to light. And their father has yet to return from the war. And because of their affliction, the whole family is pretty much stuck in this big estate surrounded by an absolutely relentless fog that will not go away. And soon they're joined by a trio of servants who get a front row seat as strange noises and voices and mysteriously opening doors and whatnot drive the family to madness. [00:12:35] Speaker B: Madness. [00:12:38] Speaker A: Pretty good evil laugh you got there. [00:12:40] Speaker B: Thanks. I've been on the haunted mansion many times. I don't want to brag. [00:12:46] Speaker A: Oh, man. [00:12:48] Speaker B: Not something I'm scared of. [00:12:50] Speaker A: I'm proud of you. [00:12:52] Speaker B: I am, however, scared of the yeti on the Matterhorn. Very frightening. I have to close my eyes. He's gotten scarier. He looks so heavy. [00:12:59] Speaker A: Yeah, that ride hurts my boobs, so I never really go on it. [00:13:03] Speaker B: Honestly, very bad for my old lady neck. I have a hard time. And if the thing is so low, you got to really climb in. [00:13:10] Speaker A: Yeah, I know people who they're like, that's my favorite ride. I'm like, why? [00:13:15] Speaker B: No, that's better rides. So many better rides that don't cause pain to you. They're just trying to remind you that they're younger than you. All right. [00:13:24] Speaker A: Yeah, right. Oh, my neck is fine on this. I'm spry and in my 20s. Whatever. Fuck off. So before we get into exactly what happened in this movie, I wanted to delve just a little bit into the time period in which it takes place and, in fact, a little bit of the time period before it takes place to really give context, because we tend to talk a lot about 19th century spiritualism. You talk about Mary Todd Lincoln and all these kinds of people who are getting real into that shit in the 19th century. [00:13:56] Speaker B: Fun fact, I thought this movie was set in that time. I thought this was going to be in the old west. [00:14:03] Speaker A: Yeah, you said that. And I don't know where that came from. [00:14:08] Speaker B: I'll tell you what. Because you showed me the post, and so you're like, have you seen the other. So I googled it. I didn't read anything about it, but the poster popped up and it was black, and it's just Nicole Kidman. And you can't really see what she's wearing because she's, like, in a shadow and she has, like, an old timey. And I was like, oh, okay. So this is like an old west antebellum maybe, like, story. And then it starts. I was like, oh, this is in England, definitely, like, in the 40s. [00:14:36] Speaker A: They seem to have some very modern conveniences for the civil War. [00:14:41] Speaker B: Surprising. But that was probably the biggest shocker. [00:14:43] Speaker A: For me was, well, time period out the gate. [00:14:48] Speaker B: I was like, oh, I have very different expectations. Because I guess one of the things I should. Sorry, not to run you over here, but the one thing I do want to say is my approach to these films is going to be to only go off of what I know. [00:14:59] Speaker A: Oh, I love of that. Yeah. [00:15:00] Speaker B: Just go in blind, like, not know anything about it. So whether it's like, I know enough from pop culture, right, if it's like a really famous one, but I'm not going to google anything about it and be like, okay, teach me something. Right. I don't want to know the plot. So I didn't even know the plot of this movie. So I was like, for the first part, I'm like, what is the point? Because it was in this old house for a long time. Feels kind of. [00:15:20] Speaker A: Anyway, it's so funny because, yeah, this movie, as I've said I've seen, like, a dozen times, maybe more. Because this obviously, being 2001, it was one of those movies that was, like, in the small DVD collection I had, like, you remember at that time, every teenager had, like, five to ten DVDs that they watched on a repeat. It was like this, and, like two weeks notice. And finding Nemo, you've got pirates of the Caribbean. And so I've seen this so many times. My friends and I used to watch it all the time, that it's like the idea of going into this blind is unfathomable to me. So it's like, I didn't even question, what could you not know about this? [00:16:12] Speaker B: Yeah, there's a lot. [00:16:13] Speaker A: There's a lot. [00:16:14] Speaker B: There's a lot you couldn't know. [00:16:16] Speaker A: Yeah, kind of the point. Spoiler alert. Yes. And obviously, when we're looking at this movie, we are looking at multiple time periods as we'll get into when we get in there. So I think it's kept. Obviously, it's not the civil War. It is not America. [00:16:31] Speaker B: Let's make that clear. [00:16:35] Speaker A: But I think it is deliberately somewhat ambiguous in when it takes place because of that sort of layers of temporality that we're dealing with within this movie. So, like I said, we talk a lot about the 19th century when it comes to spiritualism and even stuff before that and transcendentalism and all these kinds of different spiritual practices that people were doing back in the day. But when it comes to the early 20th century and mid 20th century, it's not really an era. We talk as much about what was going on at that point, mostly a lot of the time, about the debunkers of spiritualism more than we really talk about. What were the practices and why were people doing it during that time? Because obviously, there's always a reason why people are doing shit like this, right? It's not just because they're bored. There are things going on. So, in this case, I actually found a dissertation entitled. Yeah, naturally. Entitled the Ghost Story of the Great War, Spiritualism, psychical research, and the british war experience, 1914 to 1939. Catchy tune. It's a great title. But, I mean, dissertations are like that, right? This is by a belt. [00:17:52] Speaker B: No, I've never read one, Corey. Why would I have done that? [00:17:55] Speaker A: Academic papers are always, like, a catchy title and then a colon. [00:18:01] Speaker B: Super boring. [00:18:02] Speaker A: Yeah, that actually tells you what the thing is about. [00:18:05] Speaker B: Sure. Okay, gotcha. [00:18:07] Speaker A: This is by a fellow named Kyle Falcon. He later turned it into a book, but that book costs over a $100. So I will be referencing the free PDF of his. [00:18:17] Speaker B: Is it made of human skin? [00:18:20] Speaker A: It's not, unfortunately. Yeah, that's the point. It's like, academic publishing is like such a racket. Probably, if this is how I told you to email people and get like, a copy of their papers, because they don't have the journal either. It's probably like, if I had emailed him and be like, can I have your book? He'd probably be like, yeah, sure, but I had the dissertation, so I just went with that. Yes. So according to Falcon, we find ourselves in kind of an OD place religiously. In the early 20th century in Britain, people largely still considered themselves Christian, but it wasn't necessarily like a super active faith. Church attendance was abysmal, but church affiliation remained high. [00:19:07] Speaker B: Sure. [00:19:07] Speaker A: So it's very much like a lot of people, especially Catholics now. They get married in a church, but once they had kids, they're like, this is too much work. Seems like a lot going. Yeah, exactly. [00:19:19] Speaker B: Every Sunday and during the week. [00:19:22] Speaker A: Please. No, I don't think so. Unless you're my irish ass family who went to mass like 37 times a week. But historian Jeffrey Cox referred to it as a diffusive Christianity, a general belief in God, a conviction that this God was both just and benevolent, a certain confidence that good people would be taken care of in the life to come, and a belief that the Bible was a uniquely worthwhile book and that children in particular should be exposed to its teaching. So obviously we see that in the movie. Right. Like this huge emphasis on making sure the kids are sufficiently jesused up in. [00:20:02] Speaker B: Here in a very traumatic way for. [00:20:07] Speaker A: Right, exactly. [00:20:08] Speaker B: Wow, you're like, I can pinpoint the issues this child's going to have. [00:20:11] Speaker A: Right. I can see what their therapist is going to be tackling. [00:20:15] Speaker B: I know exactly what kind of anxiety this is going to develop. [00:20:19] Speaker A: Right. You've got an oldest daughter and everything. It's a lot going on there, done for. But yeah, the victorian and eduardian eras were particularly concerned, of course, with science. And sure, there could absolutely be, we'd call, like, paranormal phenomena or the supernatural, or as they called it, the supernormal. But if that thing kind of existed, there would surely be scientific evidence of it. And thus, while today most capital s scientist types are likely to feel like ghosts and prophecies and whatnot, can be pretty well chalked up to just like, religious silliness and superstition, that was not scientific consensus at the time. Some of the major scientific minds and public intellectuals were deeply invested in the study of psychical phenomenon, including physicist Sir Oliver Lodge and Sherlock Holmes scribe Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. And while some of these folks had been into spiritualism pre war, the experience of the war pushed others towards it for various reasons. As Falcon points out, spiritualism as a movement was very much in support of the british efforts in World War I. He writes that they saw it as a struggle between the materialistic militarism of Germany and the more spiritual and democratic Britain and its empire. [00:21:45] Speaker B: Sure, naturally. [00:21:46] Speaker A: Naturally. Which is what you think of when you think british empire is just, like, really cool and spiritual and democratic, really. [00:21:55] Speaker B: In touch with your emotions. [00:21:58] Speaker A: Right. Just ultimately a force for good. [00:22:01] Speaker B: Yeah, ultimately. Right. When it comes down to it, definitely. [00:22:04] Speaker A: The good guys, they're just trying the hardest. Spiritualists essentially saw the war as good for the british soul, optimistic that the effort would not only unite Britain, but be the war to end all wars. Yeah, they thought we'd get this one good conflict out and then we'd live in peace from that point on. Zero points to the spirits on that prediction. [00:22:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:31] Speaker A: And the war was not the cup of tea that Brits thought it would be when they joined up. World War I famously sucked. [00:22:40] Speaker B: Yeah, it was real bad. [00:22:41] Speaker A: Real bad. New war technologies that they hadn't had to deal with before. Fucking trench foot. Just mass death everywhere. Just people getting mowed down all over the place. Just disease, like, everything. [00:22:59] Speaker B: They're getting gassed. [00:23:01] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. [00:23:02] Speaker B: Gas. [00:23:03] Speaker A: Quick, boys. Yeah, all that jazz. Oh, rough. So as soldiers returned home, or didn't they? And their families were absolutely traumatized, and spiritualism saw a renewed relevance as grieving citizens tried to reach out to their dead loved ones in the great beyond or commune with spirits who could promise them a better future. In fact, on the eve of World War II, spiritualists were absolutely certain the spirits were telling them there wouldn't be another great war. Again, what do they know? Put a mark on the board for the ghost. Terrible prediction skills. [00:23:37] Speaker B: What do they know? [00:23:38] Speaker A: Literally, like, literally, because it seems like not a lot. Seems like nothing for two here buddies. [00:23:47] Speaker B: I mean, not to give a big spoiler, but especially if you've seen the others, they're not super. [00:23:52] Speaker A: Yeah, they're. Their intuition is off. [00:23:55] Speaker B: Yeah, very off. [00:23:56] Speaker A: Put it that way. So all that to say, though, that post war Britain was sort of religious enough and scientifically minded enough that the belief that we could interface with the spirit realm and the quest to understand how was significant. And we know this particularly to be the case amongst middle and upper class folks because we have tons of records from them and the organizations that they created to study this. We have less information about what the poor and working class were up to in this regard. So it's kind of looked at as sort of like a middle class and upper class thing. The poor may have been into it, too. It's just we don't have records of that, which would probably, in and of itself, says that at least they weren't to the degree. It's not like they were investing in psychical research. [00:24:45] Speaker B: Right. I got other things I got to spend my money on. [00:24:48] Speaker A: I got to buy food and shit. [00:24:50] Speaker B: And clothes and winter boots, those types of things I got to survive. [00:24:55] Speaker A: Yeah. Right. [00:24:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:56] Speaker A: So spiritualism became a major way that many Brits dealt with the fallout from the war, though. And Falcon writes, quote, they hoped that the war would end war, that death was not the end of the spirit, and that sacrifice for the nation could bring redemption. These views were grounded in idealized and christian concepts, and yet they survived the slaughter on the psalm and the disillusionment of the 1920s. Obviously, spiritualism is rooted in christian beliefs, but it also grew beyond that. He explains. Spiritualists retained conceptions of the afterlife and the soul, but they also modernized them by incorporating scientific findings and methods. So even as the populace was becoming less religious, this belief wasn't necessarily lessening with that. It was just sort of morphing into something where the soul and all of these kinds of ideas were a science thought instead. Thus, psychical researchers at the time attempted to use the scientific method to parse out what was going on in that ethereal realm. And these were, like, real ass scientists. For example, Cromwell Fleetwood Varley. That was a toughie. [00:26:11] Speaker B: That's one guy. That's his name. [00:26:13] Speaker A: One guy. Cromwell Fleetwood Varley. [00:26:16] Speaker B: Just the. [00:26:16] Speaker A: They're fucking with us. [00:26:17] Speaker B: Sorry. Are you kidding me? With. Not real. [00:26:22] Speaker A: That's not a name. [00:26:23] Speaker B: I refuse. [00:26:24] Speaker A: Although, to be fair, this is, like my name. It's like, that's just a bunch of last names listed. [00:26:28] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. None of those are. What are they calling him? What's his name? What is his mother? Promi. No, I made that up. [00:26:37] Speaker A: That's not what they. Maybe Wells, old Fleetwood. I don't know. [00:26:42] Speaker B: Fleet skis. [00:26:43] Speaker A: Fleet skis. [00:26:44] Speaker B: I bet that's what it was. [00:26:46] Speaker A: Definitely. We have no further questions. Let's go on to the movie. So, Cromwell Fleetwood Varley, old Fleetskis McGee skis, was an engineer whose big passions were spiritualism and telegraphy, and he thought. [00:27:01] Speaker B: That the layer telegraphy. [00:27:03] Speaker A: Telegraphy. [00:27:04] Speaker B: Should I not. That is. [00:27:05] Speaker A: Did you not read Thunderstruck Eric Larson book? Was that the one about the ship wireless telegraphy? [00:27:14] Speaker B: No. [00:27:16] Speaker A: You should read it. [00:27:16] Speaker B: It's really good. Read it. I love Eric Larson. [00:27:18] Speaker A: You love Eric Larson? [00:27:19] Speaker B: Yeah, you should. Totally. [00:27:21] Speaker A: He has another book coming out, by the way, that I saw when Gibson's was having their sale. It was one of the things you could pre order, but I can't remember what it was about. I almost pre ordered it, and then I realized it's in hardcover. Okay, well, anyways, Thunderstruck is about wireless telegraphy and the development of it and how the coincidence of that helping them to be able to catch a murderer who was fleeing to the United States after committing a murder, and the wireless telegraphy ended up helping them to catch him before he was able to disappear off into the void. It's a delightful book. And in that, you learn know, obviously, with any technology, there's like a whole bunch of people who are basically developing the same thing at the same time, and they're just racing to be the one who actually figures it out. So a fella by the name of Guillaumo Marconi was the fella who managed to land it, stick the wireless telegraphy landing, and basically changed the way that we communicate. [00:28:27] Speaker B: There you go. [00:28:28] Speaker A: So this was Cromwell, Fleetwood Varley's specific special interest. Yes, spiritualism and telegraphy. And he thought that the laying of the atlantic telegraph cable in 1866 was actually evidence for the truth of spiritualism. There was also William Crooks, who was big into seances, but also discovered thallium. And there's Oliver Lodge, who achieved wireless transmission with hurt scene waves before Marconi, and thus figured invisible forces could be manipulated to transcend the distance between life and death, too. [00:29:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I see how that goes. [00:29:10] Speaker A: Yeah, right. [00:29:10] Speaker B: Yeah, you can see that. To me, it's a step. [00:29:15] Speaker A: Yeah, you can see how that would make. What, who was it that it was like, in Congress or something where someone was like, the Internet, it's like tubes or whatever. We make fun of it, but also, I don't know what it is. [00:29:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I can't tell you how to use it. [00:29:34] Speaker A: I don't know why it's in the air. [00:29:36] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't know why. I think, should I get closer to my computer and it'll email faster? [00:29:42] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. I don't know how it works either. So of course they're trying to figure out. They're like, oh, yeah, well, I've managed to magically harness something to make it so that I can talk to someone in New York now, why not? To my dead. Yeah. So major figures in psychology, including Pierre Janay, Cesari, Lombroso, Freud and William James, were all members of the Society for Psychical Research. And Carl Jung wrote his dissertation on mediumship. Wild. That's a big name in psychology. And he was writing about people talking to ghosts. Bananas. So while we've all. [00:30:29] Speaker B: Sorry. All I can think is Ghostbusters. When Kristen Wigg is, like, trying to be, like, a serious scientist, she has that book that her and Melissa McCarthy wrote, and you're just like. I was like, oh, man, if only right. She was born in the wrong time period. [00:30:45] Speaker A: She could have been both a scientist. [00:30:47] Speaker B: And someone who believed in ghosts. [00:30:49] Speaker A: She would have fit right in in the 19th century, 20th century with Carl Young. Please. I wish I could remember off the top of my head what that book was called. It's like, got the super long title where it's like, ghosts are real. And yes, we're serious. [00:31:04] Speaker B: Is it metaphysical? Of the metaphysical? Something or other? [00:31:07] Speaker A: Who knows? [00:31:08] Speaker B: Yeah, it was ridiculous. [00:31:09] Speaker A: So good. I love that movie. Anyway, so we've all heard of people like Harry Houdini rolling up into medium sessions and exposing them as frauds. But there were plenty of psychical researchers who felt that they weren't able to debunk the seances they attended, and therefore they must be real and able to be scientifically explained. And this all sounds like crankshit to our modern ear, but that's really what science is like. You were saying, sure, they kind of had a conclusion they wanted, but they were testing these hypotheses and attempting to find evidence for their claims, rather than just being like, well, God says there's heaven, so I believe there's an afterlife. They were like, we can find it. We can figure this out. And there were plenty of researchers whose tests led them to go, you know what? As much as I wanted this, I've seen no evidence, and I don't think this is a thing. So people absolutely came to those conclusions, too, right? It's less interesting to talk about someone. [00:32:07] Speaker B: Just, like, being, like, boring. [00:32:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I decided it's not real. I'm just going to go. I'm going to leave the society and. [00:32:14] Speaker B: Just like, sorry, all go hang out with my telegram. Something super cool, though, right? [00:32:19] Speaker A: Give me a call, hit me up. [00:32:22] Speaker B: I'd love to come back. [00:32:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:24] Speaker B: And I think you want to believe. [00:32:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I think there's often a lot of those people who did start debunking things and going and showing that mediums were just like, knocking on tables and doing shit like that. Were these disillusioned people who had been parts of these or had had a tragedy happen to them and were really trying to reach out to the other side and then realize that's not a thing, and then was like, yeah, we're going to stop this nonsense. Were you going to say something? [00:32:52] Speaker B: No, I'm just saying this whole thing is so interesting to me because I know we're mainly talking about folks in England, obviously, for this story, and not to keep harping on the fact that I thought this movie was set in the Civil War. So I read a book, I don't know if you read it ever, called this republic of suffering that takes place about talking about how the civil war sort of changed people's Americans, at least, perceptions of, you know, usually your loved one would die at home and you had this kind of closure to see their final words. And so it's almost this same thing happening many years later during the Great War, because it's like, now England is almost catching up to that, where they're like, well, what were they like? Right? And you always had soldiers saying, tell my family this and bring this home to my mom and all of those types of things. And so it's understandable even that people are working so hard to prove it because there's a desperation in, like, how do we handle all of this death on a grand scale and on a micro scale, the death of my loved ones, of which I should have been there. They should have been surrounded by people they love, not in the mud in France. And so you're like, yeah, of course, you guys were working really hard. Of course, these big names were like, yeah, let's figure this out. There must be a way. This can't be the answer is that it just ends. That can't be it. That can't be it. [00:34:14] Speaker A: Yeah, you're absolutely bang on with that, and I'll get to that in a second. But I'm sorry. No, not at all. You didn't ruin it in the slightest. You just expanded upon what I was going to just sort of brush through. But that's absolutely the case. And we see in this movie, of course, spoiler alert. It's not really spoiler, but the majority. [00:34:39] Speaker B: Even though we literally told you we're going to talk about the movie. [00:34:42] Speaker A: But the majority of mediums tended to be women, as you see in this, and then the researchers tended to be men. And there's a lot of gendered stuff that this kind of goes into in his dissertation. That on the one hand, it was in some ways could be transgressive for women. It put them in kind of like a powerful, authoritative place to be, the medium who could be at the center of these things and contact the dead. And everyone is sort of paying attention. And it also let them sort of experiment with other Personas. They could be kind of like flirty and sexual if they were taking on someone else's Persona and things like that. [00:35:19] Speaker B: Right? [00:35:20] Speaker A: At the same time, the researchers, being male, meant that they also had a lot of power, especially over the women that they were studying and often debunking or proving, had a lot of full body exams. [00:35:36] Speaker B: Sure. Got to do it. Got to make sure. Got to do it. [00:35:39] Speaker A: Hiding anything on their. [00:35:40] Speaker B: Got to get up in all those crevasses, I'm sure. [00:35:42] Speaker A: Precisely. [00:35:44] Speaker B: This is a pristine male body. Did you get that? Was supposed to be from pride and prejudice and zombies when he. [00:35:52] Speaker A: God, I love that movie, too. Anyway, it's been too long since I've watched that. Maybe I'll watch that tonight. I don't know. We'll see. [00:35:58] Speaker B: I might watch it tonight. Here we go. [00:36:01] Speaker A: Good talk. The war affected everyone. Obviously. Nobody was protected from this, whether you were a guy being sent off, the family left behind, the people who were working in various war industries, the children of the like. Everybody was touched by this. And this was actually an interesting thing. In the dissertation, Falcon said that the war disproportionately targeted the upper and middle classes, which is bonkers, because that is certainly not how war works today. [00:36:37] Speaker B: No, not at all. That's the opposite of how war it. [00:36:40] Speaker A: Is, reverses how war works. And he doesn't really expand on it because it's not the point. It's just sort of like a line that he puts in there. So maybe it's a mix of not only them going and fighting the war and all that, but, say, german occupiers taking over their homes. They were taking over people's estates. They weren't taking over someone's shitty little flat in the middle of flat. [00:37:05] Speaker B: You're right. [00:37:08] Speaker A: So I don't know. Maybe that's why I'm just guessing. That's not know. Don't go telling people. Corrigan on the Joeide fan cave said this, and that's truth. I don't know. I'm just speculating. But I thought that that was really kind of interesting. But post war, not only are people dealing with all that trauma, but also the flu pandemic comes through as well. So it's a moment where generally people were healthier and living longer. People's kids were living to adulthood for the first time, and then all of a sudden, a war comes through and kills off their kids. Like Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. He had five children. All of them made it to adulthood, and then two of them just died in the know. So you had a chance to get attached to your kids for the first time, and then they die at war, or the flu takes them huge gut punches. And as Falcon explained in what you totally alluded to before, he said, quote, the absence of a body or grave site deprived the privileged classes of adequate morning rituals at a time when they were unprepared and unaccustomed to the death of their adult children. So all of a sudden you're like, your kids are dying and they're not doing it at home, and you're like, what do I do with this? Before, if your kid died when they were five or whatever, when they were a baby, you had a ritual for that kind of thing. But what do you do when it's a. I raised a whole ass adult and they have died at war. And so you see what that does. All of this taken together means we get this perfect combination of things to give rise to the spiritualism that we see played out, as the Stewart family reckons, with that second world war that the spiritualists said wasn't coming. [00:39:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:01] Speaker A: And that did have a huge impact on, like, basically, we see a decline in those beliefs afterwards. And this is in part because while some spiritualists tried to explain it away, they were like, well, listen, the spirits, they were humans. It's not like they make mistakes, too. [00:39:18] Speaker B: They knew the future. [00:39:19] Speaker A: Yeah, right. Maybe you should have thought about that before. [00:39:23] Speaker B: Don't tell everybody that there's not going to be another war. Right? [00:39:26] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. [00:39:27] Speaker B: And then don't do anything to stop it and actually fuel, you know what? That's not this kind of podcast. We don't need to get into it. [00:39:32] Speaker A: Right? We won't get too far into it. [00:39:34] Speaker B: We won't get into it. [00:39:36] Speaker A: But other spiritualists were like, well, fuck, we clearly, we need to rethink all of this if we were so utterly misled by what we thought that the spirits were telling us. And so what we get to in the others being 1945 or 44, 45, it says in the notes, when exactly it is, it doesn't matter. But as we're seeing this traumas at the end of this war, this is kind of that culmination of all of that, all of those combined things the sort of leftover Christianity, the need to teach your kids all of this kind of stuff. Her husband has not come back from the war, and they're sort of waiting, not knowing when he's going to return. So, like this limbo that they're in waiting for that and sort of dealing with the grief of everything that's happened. Being on an island that was occupied by the Germans was very much in the middle of all of this war stuff that was happening. And a sort of sense of grappling with that through the use of spiritualism, which obviously, and now, like, obvious spoiler, so turn it off if you don't want a spoiler. Like, we see that with then these people who move into the house and having a medium come in and try to contact these souls and that you've got these souls from World War II and from the tuberculosis outbreak in 1891. So like very much in that sort of span, 1891 to the end of World War II, of when spiritualism was having that resurgence and heyday in England, and that is where we find ourselves with the others. [00:41:32] Speaker B: Find ourselves at the beginning of the others. [00:41:36] Speaker A: The others. [00:41:37] Speaker B: The others. That was a great, you know, I'm glad I didn't know any of that before I started because now, as you said it, I'm like, I'm seeing all of these, and it gives you a lot of context for some of the decisions that you're like, all right, what's going on here? [00:41:51] Speaker A: Why are they like this? Yeah. As I was reading this, I was like, oh, yeah, it was really fascinating to go through. So now we're going to get into talking about the actual movie and your experience with it, and I love that. And we'll kind of use these maybe other questions as a guide. So again, if you listening, this is our first one. We're starting out. We're trying to get the shape of things. If you have ideas for sort of categories of things that we talk about when we watch these movies, please let us know. But, Kristen, you've sort of laid out some already, so I'm going to take you through them and let's just see what those were. So your first thing was sort of going into the movie was questions. I hope this movie answers. [00:42:44] Speaker B: Yeah, right. [00:42:45] Speaker A: And did they answer them? [00:42:47] Speaker B: And they sort of did. So my first question was very obvious. Who are the others? Right? [00:42:54] Speaker A: Yeah, who are they? This was a journey. [00:42:57] Speaker B: This was a journey. Who are the others? And I sent Corey kind of like a live word vomit dump of my thought as I was watching it. I just made notes of, like, what's happening? Who is that? And it's like, anytime a new person was on the screen, I was like, are they the others? Is that person the others? Are they the others? And so I asked that question multiple times. [00:43:17] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. Yeah, we'll put those notes on the cofi as well for your viewing pleasure. [00:43:24] Speaker B: You can really get the vibe of what it's like to watch these movies, and I hope my anxiety can. I feel like it comes through with the amount of question marks that I use and the all cap. But, yeah, my first question was kind of like, okay, well, who are the others? But also, what do they want? Because, like I said, I don't know anything about this film. [00:43:41] Speaker A: Who are the others, and what do they do? [00:43:43] Speaker B: What do they do? And so those were kind of the two. What do they want? Was a little less obvious, other than, I mean, technically, the answer is almost everybody is the others in this film, depending on whose perspective you're in. [00:43:58] Speaker A: Exactly that. [00:43:59] Speaker B: Yeah, everyone is the others. They all have different wants. Right. One group of others is trying to get rid of the other group. [00:44:06] Speaker A: Right? [00:44:07] Speaker B: There's two groups trying to get rid of each other. [00:44:09] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Two. So we have 1940s. Well, I guess they're both 1940s groups, but, like, the living people. [00:44:18] Speaker B: The living people are trying to get rid of the ghosts. The ghosts are trying to get rid of the living people. The servants people are a little less clear, other than maybe just trying to bring Nicole and the kids along to make them understand, because there's definitely times where they're talking to each other. I'm like, what's your like? [00:44:38] Speaker A: Why are you being so sketch about? [00:44:40] Speaker B: You're being sketch. I didn't trust you when you showed up. I continue to not trust you. [00:44:45] Speaker A: Everything the old man says. You're like, buddy, what are you playing at here? [00:44:51] Speaker B: Yeah, I innately trusted the old irish lady just because she was an old irish lady. So I'm like, oh, she would never lie. [00:44:56] Speaker A: Yeah, and her little mute friend, you're like, yeah, she seems good natured, poor girl. [00:45:00] Speaker B: Yeah, she seems like. [00:45:02] Speaker A: She seems some shit. [00:45:03] Speaker B: A scared cat. I'm not here to judge her. But it was a little less clear what their deal was, because even at the end, I was like, I guess they just kind of wanted to make sure everyone understood what are we all doing? [00:45:18] Speaker A: And I think their ultimate sort of idea is, like, we're going to ease them into this bit by bit. We're going to get them used to what's going on here, and eventually we're going to break the news to them that they're dead. And then the living people come in and make that kind of impossible. It sort of forces their hand on this. [00:45:41] Speaker B: Well, there was a point when I thought that when you realized that they were dead, the tuberculosis people, there was a point where I'm like, oh, they're trying to make Nicole go so crazy that she totally do. They're like, we don't want these living dummies here. We got to make them. They rattle the curtains. It makes me think of ghosts when they kept trying to get the movie, the show. [00:46:02] Speaker A: Ghosts. [00:46:04] Speaker B: Yeah. They're like, okay. When they walk by, push the cup. That's what I thought they were doing at first, until she was like. Ended up being real. I was like, but she's so nice. It's like a weird. She's so nice. [00:46:17] Speaker A: She's nurturing. She seems to care. She seems to really care about these. [00:46:21] Speaker B: Poor, weird children who I also thought were the others. Very early, I was like, oh, it's definitely Nicholas. Because he was the creepiest. [00:46:33] Speaker A: They're so pale, and they're like, or are they just british? [00:46:37] Speaker B: It's hard to tell. And they're always in white, and so you're like, are they even wearing clothes? They're all one shade. [00:46:43] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. But that is like, yeah. As part of it is, I think, again, it's impossible for me to remember what I thought of this movie when I initially saw it. But I think if you're taking everything at face value in this and you're not scoping the twists right, then your initial thought is going to be like, these servants are the others. And it's more of a like, so what are their motives, then? Less than it is like, oh, are they not? It's more like, what are they getting at? And especially when you get to the point where Grace comes in and what's the daughter's name? I've already. [00:47:24] Speaker B: Anne. [00:47:25] Speaker A: Anne, Anne. Anne is sitting there and, like, freaking out because the door is open, and she's, whoa. Like, I've told you, the doors need to be closed at all times. And she's like, we'll go tell. Or I guess it's actually the part where Lydia's like. She's like, oh, Lydia's been running around upstairs. She's been driving me crazy. Or, Lydia's outside. Yeah, and Lydia's outside. And you see them talking and being like, oh, no. And you're like, okay, so it really isn't. [00:47:56] Speaker B: Confused. She's like, look, man, I don't know, the lady's being a little crazy. Just try to chill out when you're upstairs, I guess. I don't know. [00:48:04] Speaker A: Right. And you see her just kind of like that. I haven't been up there. I've been outside and watching grace watch this conversation happen. And you're like, okay, they're not. [00:48:18] Speaker B: Now who's the other? Now what's happening? Yeah, I was like, are the other. [00:48:22] Speaker A: They were acting sketch. I thought they were the ghosts. But now maybe there's other ghosts. [00:48:27] Speaker B: Maybe there are other. [00:48:29] Speaker A: I, yeah, I think that ultimately that's what they want, that set of others. The service is just kind of like, let's just ease them into this and not startle them because Grace is clearly, they know, they know what she did. So they're like, she's of a delicate constitution. Let's ease her into knowing that she's dead. [00:48:57] Speaker B: Being emotionally on the edge. [00:48:59] Speaker A: Seriously. So the next thing that you had was poster versus movie. Which is scarier. [00:49:11] Speaker B: Yeah, which is scarier. So I felt like the poster was a little scarier only because it tells you nothing about what's happening. And she's in the dark. And so to me there felt like a lurkiness in the darkness that you kept not being able to see. And this movie wasn't so much like I was on edge, but I wasn't necessarily, I don't know if I was like, scared, heard, oh God. There was definitely a couple of times I was like, oh, no, what's happening? And I'm more confused the whole movie because I'm like, keep trying to figure out who the others are. So the whole movie, I'm like, who are the freaking others? And when are they going to show up in this? [00:49:46] Speaker A: I like that that occurred to you outright, though, that there was an others and that you weren't being told who it was because that's not necessarily a given. You very well could go into this movie and just immediately be like, oh, those are them, or whatever. Or even just think of it vaguely because a lot of horror movies just have titles like that. The others, the Whispers, the falls, whatever. So it could just be like, generically, there's something ghosty in this. It didn't have to be a twist or anything like that. And yet going into this, you already were kind of like, who does this refer to? [00:50:24] Speaker B: I'm taking this title very literally. There are others and we will find them. Right? Yes. And maybe that speaks to my naive, is that the word on horror films? As though I don't know that their titles are sometimes just spooky, where I'm like, no, they named it this for a reason. Clearly someone is. The others, clearly they're up to nefariousness, really. They'll tell me at some point. And so that really kept me in it, especially for the times where partway through, I was like, what is the plot? Partway through the movie where I'm like, what's happening? Because they just really seem to be walking into each room, closing doors, and the kids are studying these deeply scary Jesus books. So it felt like I was like, is this going to be like their everyday, everyday life? [00:51:12] Speaker A: It feels a 24 didn't exist yet, so, no, it's not that. You're not just watching a couple of people go through their day to day lives. [00:51:21] Speaker B: 24. I tell you what, if I was an a 24 movie, I definitely would not have answered any of the questions. I would actually have had more questions by the end, and I wouldn't have understood anything that happened. That's usually what happens at the end of an A 24 movie. True. But, yeah. So I felt that the movie itself wasn't particularly scary, although it did have me, like, tense. Yeah, it's tense. Yeah, there's a tension there. But the poster to me was like, she looked scared. There was a darkness. I kept thinking, like, it gave me a feeling that something was going to come, like, popping out. [00:51:51] Speaker A: Kind of like the famous insidious picture of the face behind Patrick Wilson or whatever. [00:51:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Is that on the list? Are we going to watch that? [00:52:02] Speaker A: You did say those Patrick Wilson movies. [00:52:06] Speaker B: Okay, I guess so. [00:52:07] Speaker A: I figured conjuring and insidious were both. [00:52:11] Speaker B: Sometimes when I was just telling you movies I hadn't seen as like a vibe check. [00:52:16] Speaker A: Yeah. I just took that as a. [00:52:18] Speaker B: You know what? I regret all of the decisions I've made. [00:52:21] Speaker A: Make better choices. [00:52:24] Speaker B: My life. [00:52:26] Speaker A: Okay, yeah, but it did scare you at least once. What was the biggest jump scare? [00:52:33] Speaker B: Biggest jump scare was when she's having her freaking kid. I think the kid was reading on the stairs, right. And you're like, yeah, go to sleep, who cares? And then there's the door to the piano room, and she hears the music, and so she opens the door, and it's empty, and she's like, oh. And then the door kind of closes on a wind, like a phantom wind, and she's like, oh, that's weird. And so the more she tries to keep it open, the more it keeps closing. And then she's in the hallway, and the door slams in her face, and she goes like, flying. And I was like, oh, my God. And then she's running around and everyone's running around. [00:53:14] Speaker A: It gets chaotic really fast. [00:53:15] Speaker B: It gets chaotic fast for a movie that had been very mellow for the most part. Right. And that got me because I kind of thought the jump, the scare part was, like, her opening the door and then it was empty. So I was like, okay. All right. [00:53:31] Speaker A: Yeah, it was a fake jump. [00:53:34] Speaker B: That was the fake one. They got me. Came back and got me. Yes. And then I don't know if it was so much a jump scare, but definitely that part. When they're searching the house, she's like, we're all searching the house. Everyone's doing it. She, like, locks the kids in a room and she's searching, and she walks into a room and you see, like, half of a face. Pale, scary face. And I was like. I was like, oh, my. Behind you. Yeah. And I'm like, don't go in there. And then she turns the light on and it's just a painting of an old timey person. And my heart stopped. Even though it wasn't like a jump. And there wasn't like. [00:54:11] Speaker A: That's like, a genuine scare. That's an earned scare, not a jump scare. Because. Not that the other one is cheap, but, like, a jump scare can be cheap. Right. Where it's just kind of trying to get you to. Right. Let's get that heart rate up where the painting one is. The unsettled feeling in your stomach that you know something she doesn't. There's someone standing there and then it flips on. [00:54:39] Speaker B: Especially because you hadn't seen anything. It only had been noises. [00:54:42] Speaker A: Exactly. It's the first you think that you've actually seen. [00:54:47] Speaker B: Believe. I did not believe that. Anne, when she's doing that creepy thing with her brother where she's, like, turning away and talking to Victor and they got that weird voice. And I was like, I did not believe she was. I thought she was. [00:54:59] Speaker A: She's fucking with him. Yeah, right. [00:55:01] Speaker B: She's messing around with him. She's being like a real turd. This poor secret garden child is like, please stop. You're scaring me. [00:55:09] Speaker A: It's just like, you're the only person I know when you scare me. [00:55:12] Speaker B: Yeah. To me. Because I didn't believe that. And so this was the first time where I was like, oh, my God, I'm seeing the others. [00:55:18] Speaker A: Is the painting. [00:55:19] Speaker B: This guy's the others. And then immediately I'm like, it's a painting. Okay. [00:55:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:22] Speaker B: Is it painting the others? No. [00:55:24] Speaker A: It's not. That would be silly. Yeah, absolutely. As I said to you, when I first was looking at your notes and everything, I was like, yeah, I've seen that so many times. And it still, every time gets my tummy roiling a little bit. [00:55:38] Speaker B: And it's so fast. It's like 1 second. See it? You register it. And then she flips the light on and then you're like, okay, I can breathe. Why am I freaking out? Yeah. [00:55:49] Speaker A: So on a similar note, the literally cannot moment, as in the moment where you got to cover the eyes. I don't want to be seeing this anymore. [00:56:01] Speaker B: Yeah. So I actually didn't have to cover my eyes, but I prepared to cover my eyes for many moments. I'm a big robe person. Not to be, like, creepy. I love a robe. And it was like, sitting in my robe and I was definitely. How that pulled up around my mouth because I was getting ready in preparation to. I wanted it to be close to my eyes so that I could cover it with my eyes. But I ended up not needing to. To do that because, yeah, like I said, it wasn't as, like, there was, like, tense moments, but not as much of like, oh, well, there wasn't blood. There wasn't a lot of murder happening. They were really just clanking around in the attic more than anything. And so I didn't actually have to cover my eyes, but there was a couple of times where I almost screamed and did more like a yelp, I would say, than a scream. I got to remember careful when I watch it because I'm like, definitely watch this in the middle of the day. It's like 10:30 a.m. I'm like, popping on the others. Baby, let's go. And so I was like, oh, I should be careful because if my roommate is, I don't want to watch it too early. Right. She sleep in and I don't want to be, like, screaming. Right. But what I also, as a side note, what I appreciate about this film is that it wasn't. If this movie had been made today, I would have had the volume up to 40. And then the second that door slammed, it would have blown my eardrum. [00:57:21] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:57:21] Speaker B: But the sound was perfect. I could hear everybody. I didn't have to have it turned up all the way. I didn't have to have it really low and just have the subtitles on, you know what I mean? [00:57:31] Speaker A: Same with the lighting. Like, both of those, it would just be dark. You would see nothing. If this movie was made now place. [00:57:37] Speaker B: In many dark rooms you can always see. Yeah, you could always see. And so I appreciated that about it because it's hard, because I feel like I'm so conditioned nowadays, so I had it really turned up. And then she was like, just talking normally. I was like, why is this up so loud? Oh, I guess this is just a normal film, what they used to make where you could hear everything that was going on. [00:57:58] Speaker A: Yeah, bring it back. [00:58:00] Speaker B: Technical standpoint. [00:58:02] Speaker A: Yeah. I often think that when I go back and watch stuff like that, remember when you understood a scene was dark, even if it wasn't pitch black and you could see people's faces and things like that? And remember when you didn't have to turn the sound up and down the whole time you're watching something. [00:58:21] Speaker B: If it's buried under a blanket, game over, right? [00:58:24] Speaker A: Yeah. I was just watching something the other day that I was, like, just dying trying to watch. I feel like it's like every other line. I need to turn this down and turn it back up. [00:58:36] Speaker B: It's miserable, you guys. I hate it so much. That was delightful for me. I appreciate that. [00:58:41] Speaker A: Good. I love that. Biggest surprise of the movie. [00:58:46] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, other than the fact that it didn't take place during the Civil War. [00:58:50] Speaker A: Right. [00:58:50] Speaker B: Which is probably the biggest surprise. [00:58:53] Speaker A: You thought that was going to be as crazy as it got. [00:58:58] Speaker B: They've already sold. I was like, well, that's done. I guess the rest of this is. [00:59:00] Speaker A: Just going to spoiler everybody take place in the civil war. [00:59:04] Speaker B: Yeah. My biggest question had been, is this parabellum or antebellum was technically neither. Or I guess technically it's after. Anyway, it doesn't matter. The point is, the real biggest surprise was that everyone was dead and that they were technically the others. If you're looking at it from the standpoint of a living person. I was very shocked. [00:59:25] Speaker A: I love that. [00:59:27] Speaker B: I was like, yeah. Anyway, there did come a point where I did think so when the 9th doctor showed up, aka her husband, aka Christopher Eccleston. Yes. When he showed up and he was very much like, sometimes I bleed out of it. Yeah. And he just laid in bed all day. And I was like, okay, so he's got maybe got some ptsd going, like, okay. And then he was like, yeah, I'm leaving. And she's like, what do you mean? You just got here? And he's like, I can't stay. And I was like, what is his deal? And then they boned and he left. And I legit was like, oh, shit, was that guy dead this whole time? And she boned her dead husband. [01:00:07] Speaker A: Gross, dude, she boned a ghost. [01:00:10] Speaker B: That is nasty. Because at first I was like, why did you even come back? [01:00:16] Speaker A: Right. [01:00:17] Speaker B: What's going on? And so obviously in hindsight, I was like, oh, all right, I see what's happening. And I also thought it was weird that they found each other on the road. I was like, what are the chances that he was coming over? [01:00:29] Speaker A: The timing is incredible. Yeah. And also in your notes, there was a point at which you considered that she had killed the children, but you didn't consider she was also dead, right? [01:00:40] Speaker B: Yes. I thought she was the only one alive. [01:00:42] Speaker A: Yes. [01:00:43] Speaker B: The whole time I was like, oh, fuck, no. Because especially when the daughter was like, oh, he told me. I think it was that part when the husband was like, she told me what happened. And I'm like, yeah, on the day. I'm like, on what day? And then she said something else later. I was like, oh, no, she drowned her kids on a bathtub. Is that why they're so pale? Are they not really allergic to the sun? And it hit me, too, when they were like, she woke up and the sun was, like, directly on her. And I was like, shouldn't that be hurting more than it is? And that's when it started to get to me. But I was like, but the mom was still so clueless, right, that I felt like, oh, she's like, she doesn't understand that she is the only one that's alive in this rickety old house, and it's the ghosts that are there. [01:01:32] Speaker A: And in that case, then maybe the servants know that, and that's why they're being cagey about. [01:01:37] Speaker B: Exactly, right. And so it kept adding up. So then when she was also dead, I was like, oh, man, they got me. [01:01:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:01:45] Speaker B: And I like that because there's so few movies. I wish I could go back and get that twist. And so, yeah, even though I was guessing, even though I wasn't where, I was just trying to answer who the others were the whole movie. I liked that reveal. And it was so cool the way they did it, right? Because when she put the veil on the kid to do the first communion, I was like, what are you doing? I don't mean to victim blame, but you're in this creepy house. Weird things are happening. Don't put your demon child in this weird veil. And then she's, like, playing and she's got that weird doll that's like a marionette. Literally this, like, I am your daughter. Known to be the creepiest doll. It is weird, creepy child. And then the creepy just was offensive to me that she even did that. And then she was, like, trying to beat her up and you're like, what's happening? Anyway? So that was shocking to me, anyway. Yeah. [01:02:44] Speaker A: The way that all of a sudden they're in that room that they've sort of been coming into and she's like. [01:02:51] Speaker B: She didn't kill us. I was like, oh, girl, she did. But then it felt like I was like, you feel like you're in on this? [01:02:56] Speaker A: Wait, what's going on? [01:02:58] Speaker B: We're alive this whole time? Yeah, they got me. [01:03:03] Speaker A: They got me good. I love that. Because again, I think one of the things is to, when you watch a lot of horror movies or any genre, right? Like, you know, the tropes of your genre. And so there comes a point where it's hard to tell if something is predictable or you've just watched a million movies or you've seen that movie a million times. So there's part of me that wondered, is it going to hit? Because now I'm like, I've seen, of course I could see it coming and I've seen other things do it since then and stuff like that. And so I was curious, like, oh, A, will the twist be surprising? And B, will it be like, that's cool when it happens? [01:03:50] Speaker B: Yeah, it was cool. It'll be interesting to see going forward if I pick up on any of the tropes or if I'm just continually surprised by everything and I'm like, what a delight. [01:03:59] Speaker A: I had no idea. Yeah, totally. [01:04:02] Speaker B: So that'll be interesting to see how long my noobness lasts, I guess. [01:04:07] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Big fan of that. Best line or no, best side character. [01:04:14] Speaker B: Yeah, best side characters. Obviously, the curtains. The curtains were the best side character. [01:04:21] Speaker A: Because they supporting linen look. [01:04:24] Speaker B: They gave it their all, man. They protected those kids. But they also didn't because people kept leaving them. Victor kept opening them up, but they felt like they had a life of their own because there's just rooms. She keeps going into rooms and they're opening and shutting. This isn't a character. And obviously Mrs. Mills would be my real, actual shortly favorite if you don't consider her a side character. But I thought it was interesting that I didn't quite understand why she felt the need to lock every door instead of just keeping them closed. Especially when she's like, I think she around. [01:05:01] Speaker A: She says it's drafty in the house, so the doors blow open. I think is why she locked them. [01:05:09] Speaker B: Because they don't have. Okay. I must have missed that part. [01:05:12] Speaker A: I think it's just a line in there. I just remember saying there's draughts anyway. [01:05:19] Speaker B: Because I kept thinking, especially when she kept thinking that they were in danger in other rooms. And I was like, look, man, I don't want to play a dear life, but just leave. Just close the door, right. And just keep going. [01:05:28] Speaker A: It'll be fine. [01:05:29] Speaker B: You'll be fine. But I was like, how can it be drafty? You literally have everything closed. I don't understand where this mystery draft. I guess because people were walking. [01:05:39] Speaker A: Because there's actually actual people, living humans. [01:05:41] Speaker B: And they're like, why is this door keeping fucking locked? I know I unlocked it. [01:05:45] Speaker A: Yes. Should be very disturbing. Props to the family in the movie for just being like, you know what? No, fuck it. [01:05:53] Speaker B: Peace. [01:05:54] Speaker A: Not doing this. [01:05:54] Speaker B: We out just found out this is. [01:05:56] Speaker A: A murder house and they intend to stay here and keep being crazy. Let's go. [01:06:03] Speaker B: And also, that's the reason they have to disclose that in the sale of houses, so that you can prepare. [01:06:10] Speaker A: So you can prepare for that. [01:06:11] Speaker B: And it is very clear that no one told Mrs. Stark that. [01:06:17] Speaker A: No, absolutely not. Yeah. Props to them for not just trying to live with. [01:06:23] Speaker B: Right. And they. And even their child was relatively. [01:06:30] Speaker A: England. [01:06:31] Speaker B: English children are like. [01:06:33] Speaker A: We interpret it as. Yeah, like, those kids are very ghostly. And it's like. That's just their skin color. [01:06:39] Speaker B: That's just their skin. Yeah, yeah. Just so pale. Because as he's like, standing up there, his dad's like, come on, get in the car, son. And he's like, waving to them, like, creepily. They're standing there. I'm like, yeah, you could have also been the third child. [01:06:51] Speaker A: Do you never know? Are they dead too? Ghost. They're going to go meet Christopher Eccleston in the woods now. [01:07:01] Speaker B: Christopher, he was the tannest person in that movie. [01:07:04] Speaker A: I know, right. [01:07:04] Speaker B: Unbelievably tan next to Nicole Kidman. Downright very pasty. Yes. I was trying to think back to when he was the doctor and I was like, you know what? He has more of a. I think he just has darker know Tanner complexion than most british people. [01:07:19] Speaker A: I feel like that's part of why he plays Americans so often, because he fits in with us better. [01:07:25] Speaker B: Yeah. He looks more like he could be from California. [01:07:27] Speaker A: Yeah. Right. [01:07:28] Speaker B: Yeah. The middle of England. Yeah. But, yeah, that was probably my favorite side character, the curtains. I will say final answer, which. [01:07:38] Speaker A: Yeah, then your best line. [01:07:40] Speaker B: I love that. Okay, so. Because, look, Anne is like, pissed at her mama. Right. Because she's like, you tried to kill me when I was in my creepy veil. Like, know. And it's like, look, Anne, again, not to victim blame, but what did you, look at you. I probably would have attacked you, too. [01:07:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:07:56] Speaker B: And clearly your mother is, I mean, foreshadowing, I guess, backshadowing because she's already dead. So I was like, you're really surprised that she attacked you? So they're not having a great relationship, right. And so now she's like, so not only did you attack me, but now I've woken up in this room and all my curtains are gone. So now you're definitely trying to kill me. And so that her looking up at her mom and be find the curtains. And she's like so mad. And I'm just like, did you kill everybody instead? [01:08:26] Speaker A: Actually, the rage in this child. [01:08:29] Speaker B: Absolutely. But like a simmering rage, right. She doesn't yell at her. Find the curtains. As for a girl who's been very vocal, and I'm not lying, you're not listening to me. She's been like screaming this whole film for her to be very silently just look at her mom and be like. And she barely moves her mouth. I was like, no, find the curtains. I loved it. I loved that. That was good to me. That was my favorite. Yeah. [01:08:57] Speaker A: Both those kids for as creepy as they are, very good in those roles. Yes. Believable children. [01:09:03] Speaker B: Not in a lot after that. No. [01:09:05] Speaker A: Yeah, they both just like went and. [01:09:07] Speaker B: They must have grown up and be less pasty and they're like, what are. [01:09:09] Speaker A: We going to do with you? Yeah. Right. My ghost child career is over. [01:09:12] Speaker B: Yeah. It's unfortunate. [01:09:17] Speaker A: Yeah. So, I mean, I think that was all of your categories that we had here. Is there anything else that you want to wrap up with from your movie experience this time? [01:09:26] Speaker B: Yeah. I was pleasantly surprised. I was delighted. Right. Obviously, I'm very nervous. I'm a nervous person in general. [01:09:35] Speaker A: True. [01:09:35] Speaker B: Got a lot of anxiety. Got a lot of things. I'm sketchy. I have a lot of weird fears from films that I've never even seen. We're really going to investigate as we get into more of the ones that I have heard of. [01:09:47] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm looking forward to that. [01:09:50] Speaker B: My first one out of the gate, I felt like you threw me a real softball, which I appreciate because it was like, okay, I could do this. This isn't as bad as I've really built up horror movies in my head as being like, life ruining. Right. This will ruin everything. I'll never look at a life size doll, the same, which I won't, but thankfully, you don't come across to begin with. Yeah. Frankly, yeah. If I got a lot of those in my life, I think there's a deeper problem that we probably should be addressing. For sure. So on the whole, I really liked it. I thought the tension was cool. It kept me guessing for most of the movie because it's like, I think many times, maybe only put it once, but there are many times where out loud. Because I'm also a real vocal movie watcher. [01:10:36] Speaker A: You are. [01:10:36] Speaker B: I've become even more. [01:10:37] Speaker A: You're physically active when you watch a movie. [01:10:40] Speaker B: It's a real 4D experience if you ever want to watch a film with me. And I've become more so, I think, since COVID because I don't go to the movies very often. And so I'm now used to watching things alone. [01:10:52] Speaker A: Right. [01:10:53] Speaker B: It sounded really sad or just with my friend. With my friends or whatever. So I'm sitting there watching this woman. I'm like, what is happening? And I was like, are you the others? I was like, man, I knew that lady was shady. You know what I mean? So I'm, like, talking out loud to myself, my roommates. I was like, what is going on in the living room? Not only am I gasping and kind of shrieking, but I'm like. And I was like, I actually think I called the dad a shit ass. I'm like, you're just going to boner and leave. What a shit ass. Why did you even come back? So a lot of this, if you can imagine my voice, if you read it in my voice, that probably sounds a lot like what my living room sounded like watching this film, because, yeah, I was definitely, like, yelling at the TV. I'm like, don't do that. When the servants were gone and she went up to investigate their room up that creepy dark. Oh, she's looking for the curtains, and she's going up that dark hallway. Which part of me was like, why didn't you put the kids in this hallway? It's pitch black, right? Great place to hide. And it's like the room at the top. And already there had been a creepy shot of Mrs. Mills, like, going into the room. And I was like, oh, God. So when she's up at the door, I just was not, do not go in there. The curtains are not there. That room is tiny. You're not going to find them. She went up there, but she did it. She did it. Anyway. [01:12:16] Speaker A: I love this. I'm glad. I love this first experience I feel really good about it. Hopefully those of you listening enjoyed this journey as well and will continue to join us. Tell your friends we're having a good time over here. Again, all your suggestions for categories of things that Kristen should look for when she watches movies. For movies that you think she should watch, within reason. We're going to have a good time with this once a month, come together and do this. And we are happy that you're here. Thanks for doing the right thing here on our Cofi and supporting us so that you get this little peek into our minds. [01:12:53] Speaker B: Little friendship history, too. [01:12:55] Speaker A: Little film history. [01:12:56] Speaker B: I mean, history in that. This film is old. [01:13:00] Speaker A: Yes. [01:13:01] Speaker B: I guess we're not really telling a lot about the history of film. I suppose. [01:13:05] Speaker A: Maybe on another one we don't know. [01:13:06] Speaker B: Well, maybe we will. Probably not. I mean, I won't certainly, because I don't know anything about them and I won't look up anything about them on principle. [01:13:12] Speaker A: That's right, yes. [01:13:14] Speaker B: So tell me your things that you know about these films, because I know nothing. And I think I'm the most excited about that. I've started doing that with books people recommend. Sometimes I'll just take it blind. I'm like, sure, I'll read it. And then I start it and I'm like, all right, what is going on? And it really adds a lot there. Adds a different layer of exploration, I think. [01:13:37] Speaker A: Right. Yeah, I do that a lot, like with our book club books because it's like I'm going to read it either way, so I don't really need to know what it's about. I'll just go in and. Yes, sometimes that's an interesting journey of just being like, yeah, I'm not sure what the conflict in this is. I don't know what the gribly is. I don't know what the baddie in this is. [01:13:56] Speaker B: I'm behind on book club. But that was actually what, now that I think about it, that's what started it. I was judging all of the books by their cover. And I remember you were reading the southern Book club's guide to vampire hunting or whatever was the first one I think we ever did. And I thought the COVID looked so cool. That's a great cover. I'd love to read that. And then halfway through, I was like, I regret this. It was deeply disturbing. And that happened a couple of times where I was like, oh, no. [01:14:22] Speaker A: Right. And then you noped out of like, baby teeth, which was not nearly as disturbing. [01:14:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I felt like I got real title, which, yeah, the title alone, I was like, that's just simply not something that I'm interested in. But this, I can't. Nope. Out of you guys. [01:14:41] Speaker A: No, she's in committed to doing this. [01:14:44] Speaker B: And so I am excited to start my being an old lady who hasn't ever seen anything and has never, only watches mostly rom coms. So if there's any rom.com tropes, any horror romance movies you guys want to throw at me, I mean, you do. [01:14:58] Speaker A: Love pride and Prejudice and zombies. That's technically a horror. Rom.com. [01:15:02] Speaker B: Maybe I don't understand what a horror movie. [01:15:05] Speaker A: Maybe that's a thing we explore. [01:15:06] Speaker B: Maybe we explore that more. Because I think I'd asked you, right? I don't remember even which movie I think it was. Blair witch project. [01:15:12] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. You asked me if that was a horror movie. And like, yes. [01:15:15] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. But there's some ones that I'm like, I don't know if it's just, I think it looked scary. [01:15:19] Speaker A: Right. [01:15:20] Speaker B: Or people consider it an actual. Yeah. [01:15:23] Speaker A: And there's like those boundaries of thrillers and things like that that aren't necessarily horror, but are like cousins. [01:15:29] Speaker B: This to me, felt more of a thriller. But because there's a supernatural element, I guess maybe leans more into the horror. Maybe we can talk. Yeah. [01:15:38] Speaker A: We can parse this as we go look through that. [01:15:40] Speaker B: You know what? I'll tell you guys if it's a horror movie, oh, I like it at the end. Was this a horror movie? Yes or no? This movie? No, not a horror movie. [01:15:49] Speaker A: Not a horror movie. Amazing. [01:15:53] Speaker B: So thanks, friends. [01:15:54] Speaker A: We will see you next month. Haven't picked a movie. Maybe next time we'll pick it so that we can announce it at the end, but haven't picked a movie for next month. [01:16:01] Speaker B: We don't know what we're doing. [01:16:02] Speaker A: Yeah, we're just figuring it out as we go. But until next time, you know the drill, friends. You go ahead and stay spooky, and. [01:16:11] Speaker B: I will not be doing that. [01:16:14] Speaker A: Minute spookiness. [01:16:15] Speaker B: I will. Minimal spookiness. Okay.