Ep. 222: wtf is shen yun?

[00:00:04] Speaker A: All right. So it appears that something very weird has happened this week in Joagland, doesn't it? [00:00:10] Speaker B: Yes, extremely. [00:00:11] Speaker A: Feels like something very fucking strange and uncanny and serendipitous. [00:00:18] Speaker B: Yes. [00:00:19] Speaker A: Would you say? [00:00:20] Speaker B: Much so, yeah. Serendipitous to the max. [00:00:23] Speaker A: Kismet has been at play. I feel the hand of happenstance tugging at our fucking strings this week. Do you know what I'm saying? [00:00:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:00:33] Speaker A: Tell you what, we know what's going on here. But I think the best way for me to explain this, the best way for me to embark on this is just to paint a little picture for you, set a little scene for you. Right, Listeners, do please keep in mind that the story that you're about to hear, the events which are about to unfold was originally meant to form the opening of a Jack of All Graves episode from Wednesday of this week. Am I right, Corrigan? [00:01:07] Speaker B: Yes. We were settled in to record this on Wednesday evening. [00:01:11] Speaker A: Wednesday this week. Wednesday this week. I want to keep that date in your head. Wednesday this week, right now. Why didn't we. The reason why we didn't was because as long time listeners plugged into the Joag law will know, I get around, I travel a lot for work. And on this one occasion I was away. I was in Newcastle Upon Tyne in the north of England. And Internet in my room was shitty. Internet in my hotel was shitty. And we couldn't get it together, we couldn't make it work. So let me paint a little picture for you, right? Let me tell you a little. Let me just start to weave this yarn. I didn't know that Corry and I wouldn't be recording at this point. So I think, right, I'll just hastily order myself some dinner. I'll just hastily get myself some food and I'll set up and we'll get ready to go. So I'm sat, I'm stood with my vape in hand outside the hotel. One the center of. It's actually, yeah, Gateshead, Newcastle on Tyne. And it's a cobbled street and it's a sunny evening and it's springtime and it's beautiful and it's busy, you know, It's. It's like 7:00, 6:30, 7:00. And the street is full. People coming and going. A lot of people, as you would often expect to find in Newcastle, in Newcastle United colours, football scarves on. People are getting out of work, going for after work drinks. People are getting ready to go out. People are for their friends. Shoppers. [00:02:46] Speaker B: Yes, nice, sure. [00:02:48] Speaker A: And I'm stood outside my hotel, merrily, vaping away on this very vape. Right. [00:02:55] Speaker B: This one here, it's a yellow vape. [00:02:59] Speaker A: It's this very vape. It's this same vape, Right, Okay. And I'm keeping myself to myself. I got one eye on my phone, tracking the Uber Eats guy on his little bike, watching him get ever closer. I'd ordered a Smash burger. It was beautiful, very nice. [00:03:16] Speaker B: Smash burgers are delicious. [00:03:17] Speaker A: And I notice a lady. I would place her, early 50s, Kim. She is gray of hair, curly gray hair. She is very casually dressed. You might maybe, if I were to say she was dressed maybe like somebody was just out for a hike or gathering nettles or berries for stew. [00:03:48] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. White lady. [00:03:51] Speaker A: White lady, yes. [00:03:52] Speaker B: Okay. [00:03:54] Speaker A: You know, like walking boots, fleece top and a bag. And she's clutching a wad of pamphlets, leaflets, literature tracts, you know, and she has a clipboard and she has a pen. And I see her, she is. She's talking to passersby. She's trying to engage passersby in a conversation. [00:04:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:21] Speaker A: And she catches. Why, I don't know, but she catches my eye, she catches my imagination. And I can't quite make out what she's saying, but I see someone shaking their head at her and hurriedly walking away. [00:04:33] Speaker B: Mm. [00:04:34] Speaker A: Whatever she said isn't necessary to this person's taste. Yes, I see her do this again. She's getting closer. Oh, she's getting closer to me. And the UberEats guy is still like 15 minutes away. And I'm thinking, fuck, I'm in the line of fire here. [00:04:50] Speaker B: Yep. [00:04:51] Speaker A: But I quite like that. [00:04:53] Speaker B: Well, yeah, as we know, sometimes you are. You're very on board with this, if you're in the right mindset. [00:04:59] Speaker A: Nowhere to be another, another, another punter. Gives her the fucking bums rush, you know what I mean? Gives her the cold shoulder. Turns away. No, no, thanks. No, thanks. A lady comes out of the hotel next to me and stands on the opposite side of the door to me. The woman is now right next to us. She is right in front of me and she talks to the lady next to me and I hear what she's saying and I'm not really listening, but I'm kind of half listening. Something, something, something, organ harvest. Something, something, something that'll catch your ear. And my attention is piqued. The lady who's just come out of the hotel next to me literally does a 180 and walks the fuck back into the hotel to avoid this woman. She's growing. [00:05:50] Speaker B: She Sounds really bad at whatever she's trying to accomplish. [00:05:53] Speaker A: I don't. Because I don't think it was. What? I don't think it was her so much as her subject matter. [00:05:59] Speaker B: It's the content. [00:06:00] Speaker A: It's not the sort of thing maybe you want to engage with at fucking 6:30 on a Wednesday when you've got. [00:06:05] Speaker B: Something while you're waiting for your ubereats. [00:06:07] Speaker A: Fun to be doing. Yeah, but you know me, corry, I love it. So she comes up to me and she's making eye contact, right? And this woman is not looking at me, but through me. Almost like she's focusing on a spot like four inches behind the back of my head. [00:06:27] Speaker B: Okay. Right, yeah. [00:06:30] Speaker A: Can I ask you to sign this petition to raise awareness of the illegal organ harvesting of Falun Gon practitioners in China? [00:06:40] Speaker B: Yes. [00:06:41] Speaker A: And I'm like, what? [00:06:48] Speaker B: I'm gonna need more information. [00:06:50] Speaker A: All thoughts of my burger gone from my mind and like that. I, I, my phone is in my pocket and bang. I am in this fucking conversation. I'm talking to this woman. Sorry, sorry, say that again. And she starts to give me detail. Falun Gong, it's a Buddhist adjacent kind of meditational practice in China studied by those, you know, Also qigong is something you might be aware of. And instantly, okay, I'm like, all right, yeah. She's well, I have to tell you that practitioners of Falun Gong are being targeted by the Chinese Communist government. And whilst in surgery or whilst in prison, they are being targeted and they're having their organs stolen and sold by the Chinese Communist government. And I'm like, oh, oh, fuck. Those were my exact words. Oh, fuck. So I start to question her and I start to talk this through. I'm like, okay, listen, this sounds awful. This sounds terrible. She starts to talk to me about Falun Gong. I'm like, well, just to set your expectations accordingly. That's exactly what I said to her. You're talking to somebody who isn't, you know, I'm a staunch atheist. This isn't anything I have any belief in, so let's go from that perspective. And she's like, all right, fine. [00:08:10] Speaker B: So skip that. Let's get back to the organ harvesting. [00:08:13] Speaker A: I ask her questions. How? Firstly, how, how, how would the, how would the Communist government of China know that I'm a Falun Gong practitioner? Do I have to sign? [00:08:22] Speaker B: Great question. [00:08:23] Speaker A: Do I have to sign a register? [00:08:26] Speaker B: Sure, yeah. [00:08:28] Speaker A: How, you know if I'm going in for an operation on something entirely unrelated, if I go in for like a fucking Ankle surgery or something like that. How does the Chinese government know that I've gone in for surgery? How do they. How does the doctor know of this? Do they pay the doctor? Is the doctor doing this under duress? I'll remember my exact words. There are too many vague parts of this story for me to sign your petition. That's what I said to her, but I will take a leaflet. [00:08:55] Speaker B: Nice. [00:08:55] Speaker A: And that's exactly what I did. [00:08:58] Speaker B: Nice. [00:08:58] Speaker A: Now, friends, I'm gonna read from this leaflet, and then I'm gonna bring us up to date. And then I'm gonna bring us Back to Sunday 6th April, 2025. I'm just gonna open from this leaflet, if I may. [00:09:10] Speaker B: Yes. Love this. Yes. [00:09:12] Speaker A: This quote claims to be. Purports to be from the European Parliament resolution on forced organ harvesting in China. The killing of practitioners of the Falun Gong peaceful meditation for the purpose of selling their organs. Violation of the fundamental right to life. I also remember asking this woman, who is she representing? Are you an independent? Are you independently gathering signatures? Are you raising awareness independently? Do you. You know who you. Who you kind of acting on behalf of? Well, I'm a Falun Gong practitioner, you see. Okay, but who. When I sign this, where do these signatures are for exactly? Where. Where are these going to go? She did not answer. She did not answer. This simply more talk allusions to Tiananmen Square. The Chinese, the communist government, they do horrible things. You know, they hit people with rubber gloves. They enter people's homes illegally. They enter people's homes and they. They hit people. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. [00:10:11] Speaker B: Not the question. [00:10:12] Speaker A: This is not what we're talking about. Obviously, the Chinese communist government have been responsible for this. From appalling human rights, sure. Travesties, abominations, abhorrent practices. But again, I said to it there. There are just too many gray areas in this story for me to want to commit to this. Let me just read a little bit more from this leaflet, if I may. Desperate patients from across the world have been going to China to buy organs. A suitable match is found in days, A contrast to the usual years it takes in other countries. But how is this possible? You know, she said I asked her, why are Falun Gong practitioners. Air quotes. Practitioners. Why are they targeted for this? Yeah, Abhorrent, clandestine chop shop fucking organ black market harvesting operation. Her response, because of the beneficial effects of Falun Gong upon the body. They are regarded as having healthier physicality, healthier organs, more longevity, more youthful, and are Thus targeted by the Chinese Communist government, the ccp. [00:11:20] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:11:20] Speaker A: For their organs. Across China, a gruesome trade in human organs is taking place on a mass scale, like something out of a horror movie. Livers, kidneys, heart, lungs and corneas are being cut out from prisoners of conscience while they are still alive. So, listeners, I bring you now to today, the 6th of April, 2025, when I text Corrigan about an hour ago, right, you ready for this? And I text her and I'm quoting, do you want to just. Do you want to role play this text message? [00:12:01] Speaker B: Sure, yeah. [00:12:02] Speaker A: Just grab your little signal there. I'll be, I'll play Mark. [00:12:08] Speaker B: Oh, okay, great. I think you were born for that role. [00:12:11] Speaker A: And if you be Corrigan, right? [00:12:13] Speaker B: Yes. [00:12:14] Speaker A: Do you want to warm up or are you just good to go in? [00:12:18] Speaker B: I think I'm ready. Let's do this. Let's do this. You just gotta go. [00:12:21] Speaker A: 7:49. 7:49. I have a pretty fucking wild story here. [00:12:26] Speaker B: Ooh. [00:12:28] Speaker A: You ever hear of Qi Gong? Chinese meditative technique. A lot of bullshit, but a lot of people dig it. [00:12:33] Speaker B: Stop. [00:12:35] Speaker A: What? Screen. [00:12:37] Speaker B: Send a screenshot. It's a draft from my WordPress says episode 222. WTF is Shen Yun S T F U. This is my 10 page opener. [00:12:53] Speaker A: Fuck out of here, Corrigan. And that brings us up to date, right? On Wednesday. On Wednesday, like an hour before we were due to record this podcast, I was approached, apropos of nothing, sight unseen, out of the blue, by someone petitioning about the organ fucking harvest trade in China against fucking Falun Gong practitioners that Corrigan had written a 10 page opener about. [00:13:21] Speaker B: What the fuck is going so insane? Like, listen, we've, we've, we've had these sort of overlaps before. Like when, you know, I told the taraj story and then you did a couple weeks later, but you hadn't been. [00:13:36] Speaker A: There, and then a week or two later after that. [00:13:39] Speaker B: And so, like, we've had a little weird lineup before, but this one is fully bonkers. That literally I would have told you this story, you know, 45 minutes after you experienced this the other day. Inexplicable. Incredible. And before I get into all of this stuff that this lady has sort of gotten into your mind with here and, and raised all these questions for you. I am going to address those, but I'm going to talk about how I came to questioning this. [00:14:13] Speaker A: Okay? [00:14:15] Speaker B: So, Mark, you know that I've traveled quite a bit in my day, you know, 18 countries and territories, five out of seven continents. I been around a bit. And one thing that has been a constant, whether in any city here in the United States or in a good chunk of these places abroad, is the ubiquitous advertisements for the performance art group Shen Yin. [00:14:40] Speaker A: Right. So these also advertise in the uk they sure do. You will find these advertisements on the tube. [00:14:48] Speaker B: Mm. [00:14:49] Speaker A: Promising you a fucking spin spectacle the like of which you have never encountered before. A feast. [00:14:55] Speaker B: Exactly. Yes. [00:14:56] Speaker A: Of dance, of acrobatics, of human physical fucking absolute majesty. Music and costume and discipline on the very brink of human capability. [00:15:12] Speaker B: And do you know anyone who's gone. [00:15:14] Speaker A: No. [00:15:15] Speaker B: Exactly. For years, it's. Don't. I'm not saying this is not a real thing. Just hear me out. So. But for years, Xinyun has been sort of this thing in the background of all of our lives. Right. Like, most of us don't know anyone who's actually seen it, but we've all seen these commercials you just described, or the billboards or the flyers in the window. The strange presence of this show has spawned a bajillion memes with Shenyun ads on the moon, or Jack Nicholson busting through the door in the Shining with a Shenyon ad, or Ana de Armas advertising Shenyan in Blade Runner 2049. They're everywhere. For context, there are only 351 cities in the United States with a population over 100,000 people. Okay, 351 major cities. Shenyan visited 96 in 2019. 96 cities just in the United States in 2019. And you would have seen the ads for it if you lived anywhere within a couple hundred miles of those performances. I absolutely love this district description from a New Yorker article. And I'll talk more about this article, but quote, last year, the ads were goldenrod yellow, like dehydrated urine, and they said, reviving 5,000 years of civilization. [00:16:45] Speaker A: Yep. [00:16:46] Speaker B: The year before that, the ads experience a divine culture. Were green. The year before that, the Shenyan poster featured two women dancing, wearing birthday cake frosting colors. And for months I sat in the subway reading, but in no way processing the phrase quote. Absolutely the number one show in the world. These posters were so attributed to who? [00:17:10] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:17:12] Speaker B: Right. What a tagline. [00:17:14] Speaker A: Absolutely, the number. It's like this podcast. Absolutely. The number one podcast in the world. Let's go, Max. You're the best wrestler life. [00:17:25] Speaker B: Yes. These posters were so uncanny and contentless that the easiest explanation for their existence was that my brain had simply glitched and invented Xinyun the way John Nash invented his roommate in a beautiful Mind. Love that whole description. [00:17:42] Speaker A: Yeah, it's great. [00:17:43] Speaker B: But you also get commercials like the one I just sent you, Mark. So why don't you just give that a clickety click in your signal real fast and, you know, I'll try to. I'll try to put the audio in the podcast if I can get it as well. But you can describe what they also. [00:17:59] Speaker A: Advertise on TV here. [00:18:01] Speaker B: Okay, so you get the ads too. Maybe you'll recognize this ad. I don't know. [00:18:06] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. Breathtaking. It is absolutely stunning. I feel better about the world. I feel uplifted. Yeah. I've seen this exact advert on the TV over here. [00:18:21] Speaker B: Yeah, good. [00:18:21] Speaker A: It was encouraging. Gave me hope. This has just been therapy for the soul. It's a must see. Must see. Make sure you see it. [00:18:29] Speaker B: Make sure you see it. [00:18:32] Speaker A: March 9th through 17th Mill Theater, Shenyun dot com. Yep. [00:18:37] Speaker B: I love that you acted it out. Thank you for that. [00:18:40] Speaker A: Of course. Train drama. [00:18:41] Speaker B: I don't even need the audio. You were. [00:18:42] Speaker A: Yeah, it makes me want to go see it. Makes me want to get the kids right now, you know, like Homer dragging the kids out to, you know, pack a bag. [00:18:55] Speaker B: Yeah, I always wonder too, like, who these people are. You know, there's like, they're always like 55 plus white people. You know, they might throw like one person of color in there for good measure. And I looked up at the end of that particular ad, there's Bev Coscarelli, actress. And so, you know, I gave old Bev. Yep. And she's been in like two short student films. That's about it. So she was, you know, they were like, you know, so what do you do for living, Bev? Oh, I'm an actress. I'm not nervous about doing commercials. I'm an actress. Bless you, Bev. [00:19:38] Speaker A: But taken on face value, that is a spectacle, isn't it? That is a right world spanning, you know, time conquering. Just forget cats, forget Phantom. [00:19:50] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. The number one or absolutely the number one show in the world. But one of the things I find fascinating in these ads is how they've changed over time and gotten more overt and confrontational with their message. For years it was just presented like this pretty display of dancers in colorful garb. You had to actually go to find out that it was anything more than this big spectacle. And I remember reading that New Yorker article that I referenced in 2019 about the experience of this woman going and being like, holy shit, is this what this is about? I will get more to that. Article. But in current ads we're getting a little bit more of what Xinyin actually stands for. Yeah, their tagline now is China before Communism. And the ads really drive home that part. Like, this is the beauty of China that has been lost because of communism. They don't allow this anymore. So you get like a sense that it is actually overtly political where you didn't before. Right. And here, okay, fine, America hates communism. So, sure, like, it's not gonna be super controversial in the United States to have a thing that is anti communist. That's like kind of the baseline for a lot of Americans. But then they added a new ad in recent months and unfortunately I tried to find it on their YouTube. I did tape it off of like the TV, but I didn't send it to you because it's shitty. But they. They put this new ad out that is not on their YouTube like most of their other stuff, but it comes out like an Election Times attack ad. And it's like basically like the Chinese government is trying to silence Xinyun and some, like, nefarious American actors are helping them to spread their propaganda. And you need to see Shen Yun to see what the communists don't want you to see. That's obviously not the exact wording, but. No, but I mean, that's the vibe. [00:21:54] Speaker A: Is. Is that bad? That feels like. It feels quite noble. [00:22:00] Speaker B: Noble? [00:22:01] Speaker A: No other. The Shenyan touring company being repressed by the communist government. Is that what's going on? [00:22:07] Speaker B: Well, we'll get there, but I. Sure, yes, but we'll get to why. [00:22:15] Speaker A: Fine. [00:22:18] Speaker B: But it's kind of a streisanding effect, right? Because, like, now we know that there's like apparently like drama around Shenyan, right? Like before it was like, oh, it's just like beautiful thing. Yeah, yeah, we go see now it's like, wait, so like, what's going on? Which might cause people to Google them. And if you Google them, you start to see some stuff because, yeah, they're being criticized a lot in America, especially in the past couple of years. But Marco, they're being criticized because they are a cult. So here I was going to ask you if you'd ever heard of Falun Gong or Falun Duff. Falun Dafa, which they're alternatively called the same thing. Now, I know you have. Yes, you. [00:23:09] Speaker A: I've spoken to an actual Falun Gong fucking practitioner, mate. [00:23:12] Speaker B: And you've probably seen them at many times throughout your life. I remember once sitting in Portland and I saw a whole bunch of people wearing yellow banging Drums and stuff like that, doing a protest. I had no idea what it was. You know, I was like 22 at the time. Was just like, okay, this is happening around me. Sure, they're protesting something. I'm sure it's great, you know, but also, you would recognize Falun Gong from seeing those old people doing slow motion exercises in the park together. [00:23:42] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes. [00:23:43] Speaker B: The exercise known as qigong that you mentioned before. [00:23:47] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:23:48] Speaker B: And I remember qigong being talked about a lot when I was younger, like, you know, in like the 2000s, the early 2000s, which will make sense as we go through this. It's similar to Tai Chi and to oversimplify, is basically a form of exercise that combines elements of body movement, breathing and meditation. And it gained quite a bit of popularity throughout the 20th century after the Cultural Revolution in China, with prominent Communist Party figures promoting it and universities researching its benefits, including paranormal elements of the practice. [00:24:21] Speaker A: This, this is, I mean, before the shocking reveal that we'd somehow happened upon the same thematic kind of landscape here this, this week, I did, you know, I had the most cursory of look into qigong. [00:24:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:37] Speaker A: And it's. It's energy. Cause isn't it? It's fucking right. [00:24:41] Speaker B: You know, it's like pretty standard. [00:24:43] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:24:44] Speaker B: Like, it's just like anyone you know who like is kind of into hippie ish shit. Yeah, like, it's that base guy. Your mind, your body, your spirit all connected. [00:24:54] Speaker A: You know, I put it in the same kind of filing cabinet mentally as Ricky. [00:24:59] Speaker B: Right, yeah, you know, exactly. [00:25:01] Speaker A: I mean, they all kind of cleansing. [00:25:03] Speaker B: Yeah. It comes from like Eastern religion. Right. Like, you know, so it's got, it's basically the principles that a lot of Eastern religions have. Like your lady said, like, it's, it's Buddhist adjacent. [00:25:14] Speaker A: Yes, right. [00:25:15] Speaker B: It's not Buddhism, but it's like it's in the bulk. [00:25:17] Speaker A: Might as well be, essentially. [00:25:19] Speaker B: Yeah, right, yeah, exactly. So like I said, like, the Communist Party took it on. They were super into it, they were researching it. And after a while, qigong started to be associated with all kinds of mysticism and supernatural ideas, sort of drifting away from the state sanctioned practice towards pseudoscience and cult behavior. As a result, the Chinese government started laying the smackdown on Qi Gong, shutting down research and clinics affiliated with the practice and banning its largest cult practitioners, Xion Gong and Falun Gong, while then strictly regulating the arts practice throughout the country. So they didn't ban qigong altogether. They said if you're like a cult practicing it, you can't do that. But you can be trained and accredited by the state to practice qigong. [00:26:07] Speaker A: Uh, alright. And again, I'm. I'm feeling these ideas out as we go, but that in itself is bad. In itself, though, isn't the government telling me what I can and can't? I mean, am I harming anyone by practicing Falun Gong? Am I? [00:26:20] Speaker B: We'll get there. [00:26:20] Speaker A: Okay, okay, okay. [00:26:22] Speaker B: We will get to the harmful elements of what this is. Because that's the thing, right? They're saying practicing qigong is not a problem. It is how you practice qigong that is a problem. So in 1999, in the wake of the ban, Falun Gong members were allegedly arrested, tortured and sent to labor camps. America, however, is pretty cult friendly. We love our religious freedom over here. And Falun Gong, which was banned from China in after 1999, managed to get an easy foothold here. So let's talk about the cult itself. Is this just the case of, as you're kind of saying, China persecuting a religious minority because they're a little quirky? [00:27:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:05] Speaker B: Or is there more to the story? [00:27:07] Speaker A: Because that seems harmless enough. They're in a park, right? Yeah. Doing little slow motion moves the universe. That feels fine to me, right? [00:27:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Who cares? Yeah. So Falun Gong was started by a grain clerk named Li Hongzhi in the early 90s. It was, as I described, a melding of traditional qigong with more New Agey and supernatural beliefs. And he was, from the get go, pretty confrontational about the whole thing. As its practices spread and Falun Gong came to be considered to preach heretical fallacies that are anti humanity and anti science, Hongxi didn't just lay down, he started organizing massive protests. One such protest in Beijing drew over 10,000 Falun Gong practitioners, the largest protest in China since Tiananmen. And the protest called for an end to restrictions on practice of their faith, which, to use the word you used earlier, seems noble enough, religious freedom. But it's important to consider what exactly those beliefs were at its core. [00:28:11] Speaker A: Here we go. [00:28:13] Speaker B: It follows three guiding principles. [00:28:14] Speaker A: Here it comes. [00:28:15] Speaker B: Truthfulness, Compassion. [00:28:17] Speaker A: White supremacy. [00:28:19] Speaker B: White supremacy? No, not quite. It starts to edge that way. But yeah, truth, compassion and forbearance or tolerance. And I think we can all agree those are good things, right? Like if you have to follow a religion, one that focuses on those three things is absolutely the best case scenario. Incorporating elements of Buddhism, followers of Falun Gong try to attain enlightenment by eliminating their attachments. Attachments. And trying to focus inward on themselves also. [00:28:49] Speaker A: Cool, right? [00:28:50] Speaker B: I think, like, for most of us, like, Buddhists are like, the best kind of religious people. Right. Like, it's not really about, like, a God necessarily. It's, like, about learning to live and let live. [00:29:02] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. [00:29:02] Speaker B: Work on yourself. Don't fuck with other people. [00:29:05] Speaker A: Abandoning earthly kind of issues and conceits. [00:29:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:11] Speaker A: Trappings of, you know, the. The shit which just weighs you down. Stuff which I grapple with. Stuff which you grapple with. [00:29:18] Speaker B: Right. You know, and, like, your brother recommended me a book that was like a. By a Buddhist that was like a meditation book. And he was like, this actually really helped me in a lot of ways. You know, there's like, a lot of practical stuff in there that if you were sort of following the principles of it, like, that's the thing is they don't say you need to believe in a God. That's not the point. Right. Like, this is about what can you do to sort of understand yourself better and, you know, use that to, like you said, sort of throw off all those, like, chains and binds that make our lives so heavy. So, yeah, I think generally we would all say that Buddhism is kind of like peak when it comes to religion on earth. Like, they've got it pretty much figured out. But then it gets iffy with Falun Gong, for example. Practitioners of Falun Gong believe that illness is caused by negative karma, and as such, there's no reason to, you know, go to the doctor. [00:30:13] Speaker A: Do you know, I think in a link, another Joe Ag link, I think Noel Edmonds once said something similar. [00:30:21] Speaker B: Well, this is another thing that's common to a lot of, like, culty spinoffs or wellness spinoffs of Eastern religion. It somehow always ends up as. Also, illness isn't real. Yeah, but so the way to get rid of illness, from the flu to anorexia to cancer, is to endure hardship and to truly believe in Master Li's teachings. But it's not that they can just expel illness from their bodies. Oh, no, there's more. They can also do cool things like levitating and seeing through walls. And Lee himself can read your mind. And that shit has serious consequences, as you can imagine. For one, just like wellness influencers have people juicing and housing supplements while rejecting chemotherapy and whatnot, Falun Gong practitioners will often forgo real treatments in favor of trying to just become more spiritual. [00:31:18] Speaker A: Well, yeah, I mean, I. I'm certain I've told the story here about an old acquaintance of mine from the first call center job I had here back in. In Merthyr who was so into reflexology, so into foot witch, you know, the practice of foot necromancy, that she was adamant that if she. If she had a cancer diagnosis, she would be straight down the reflexologist. [00:31:50] Speaker B: Reflexology. [00:31:50] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:31:52] Speaker B: It's been. It's because, like, I think, you know, we've talked about this before. I think there are certain things, physiological realities to reflexology in terms of, like, body systems working certain ways. It's not gonna cure cancer. It might, you know, make you a little less sore or things like that. Like, that's what that kind of thing does. But in this case, like one example in a profile in Australia's ABC News, a former practitioner, a practitioner identified only as Anna suffered from anorexia after, in a dance class training for Shinyun, which we'll get to, the teacher singled her out in front of the mirror, lifting up her shirt, jiggling her stomach and saying, do you see this, everyone? This is an example of how a woman should not look. [00:32:35] Speaker A: I see. [00:32:36] Speaker B: She was hospitalized for anorexia for the first time at age 13. Later in her teen years, her mother took her to see Master Li himself about this problem, and he performed a spontaneous exorcism on her. Afterwards, her mother said in the car, you're all better. You're normal now. Now I love you. [00:32:59] Speaker A: It's so good. [00:33:00] Speaker B: Jesus Christ. [00:33:01] Speaker A: Fucking hell. Parenting. [00:33:03] Speaker B: Her mother said that, yeah, now I love you. [00:33:06] Speaker A: Nice. [00:33:07] Speaker B: The experience triggered a relapse of her anorexia. Another woman talked of her mother's descent into Falun Gong mania, which caused her to push her family away and eventually reject medical treatment for an illness that, after three long years of suffering, finally killed her. She'd been managing it by following Falun Gong rather than pursuing medical attention. She'd been such a true believer. When her daughter brought her a photo of her son to put on her wall in place of a photo she had of Master Li, she immediately swapped it back. If anyone should have been able to overcome illness, a lady who kept the cult leader on her wall instead of her own grandchildren should probably have been it. In Falun Gong also, it's taught that homosexuality and being promiscuous are unnatural. [00:33:58] Speaker A: There it is. [00:34:00] Speaker B: And that it's super bad to be mixed race, because each race is going to get their own heaven, and mixed race people will have no place to go when they die. [00:34:09] Speaker A: Here it is. [00:34:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Always is going to come around to the steam. [00:34:13] Speaker A: Yeah, of course. And this is a core teaching of Falun Gong. [00:34:16] Speaker B: Poor teaching? Yes. Of homosexuality. Lee wrote in one of the foundational texts of Falun Gong, quote, the disgusting homosexuality shows the dirty, abnormal psychology of the gay who has lost his ability to reasoning at the present time. And later he said that gays would be, quote, eliminated by the gods. [00:34:38] Speaker A: Ah. [00:34:40] Speaker B: In Time magazine, Lee claimed that aliens were trying to control humans by making us dependent on modern science. [00:34:47] Speaker A: Gets better. [00:34:48] Speaker B: Yeah. He later tried to walk that back and say that it was a metaphor, but multiple journalists have read his actual writings, and he definitely really believes that or really teaches that, at least at this point. [00:35:01] Speaker A: I feel it important to reiterate. I did not sign the petition. Right. I asked questions of this lady. [00:35:11] Speaker B: You did. [00:35:11] Speaker A: I took her leaflet. I nodded politely, and I enjoyed my burger. [00:35:14] Speaker B: Yes. Good for you. More people should approach petitions on the streets this. This way. Like I said, he at least teaches that thing about aliens. And there's no way of knowing what cult leaders really believe, considering they make a lot of money off of just saying shit. He also told a gathering in Switzerland that, quote, by mixing the races of humans, the aliens make humans cast off gods. He said that, quote, higher levels do not recognize such a human race. [00:35:45] Speaker A: Ah, so there's a hierarchy of Falun Gong, then. [00:35:50] Speaker B: Well, that's like. Like, higher levels is referring to, like, basically, like space beings. [00:35:53] Speaker A: Yeah, sure, sure. [00:35:54] Speaker B: Space beings, the aliens, all that kind of stuff. If you mix races, they're like, the fuck is that? You can't come here. [00:35:59] Speaker A: Abomination. [00:36:00] Speaker B: Abomination. Yeah. We do not ew monsters. Stay on Earth. The website Cult News covered falun Gong in 2009, responding to questions people had about whether the group is a cult or not. They noted the characteristics of a cult laid out by psychiatrist Robert J. 1, a charismatic leader who increasingly becomes an object of worship, as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose their power. Two, a process of coercive persuasion or thought reform. Three, Economic, sexual, and other exploitation of group members by the leader and the ruling coterie. The first target is a bullseye. There is no question Master Li fits that bill, claiming to have supernatural powers and to know the top secret of the universe. [00:36:52] Speaker A: Falun Gong. Is Master Li still with us? Because it's. [00:36:56] Speaker B: Yeah, he's still going. [00:36:57] Speaker A: Falun gong is a 90s thing, isn't it? Am I right? [00:37:00] Speaker B: Yeah. So it started in the 90s. He's now in his 70s. [00:37:02] Speaker A: Fine. Okay. [00:37:03] Speaker B: Yep. But he claims essentially to be the savior of man, with the only salvation coming through the almighty fa, of which he is the sole representation. He teaches about the Falloon, which is the Spinning wheel of law, which he is able to put into followers abdomens using telekinesis. And followers are not to question any of his teachings, as he is considered to be infallible. Any questioning of him is considered persecution. To the second point, coercive persuasion. The website points out that Master Li controls his followers by teaching them to fear the outside world, whether with stories of the persecution they'll face or impending environmental catastrophes or conspiracies and so on. He claims to have saved the world from destruction and that gods will destroy anyone that he disapproves of. So imagine trying to leave a religious group you've been taught is led by like a man with telekinesis that can murder you. [00:38:06] Speaker A: Put the wheel of law into your tummy, right? [00:38:10] Speaker B: This would be really difficult if you had been indoctrinated into this. [00:38:14] Speaker A: I don't know if you'll be able to. [00:38:15] Speaker B: Coercive control. Yeah. [00:38:17] Speaker A: Is this. Is this knowledge that is readily available to even kind of grassroots level Falun Gong practitioners might like as. [00:38:25] Speaker B: As opposed to like Scientology, where it's like. [00:38:26] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. The lady who pressed this, right? Which is she all like? [00:38:32] Speaker B: I think if she's at the point of doing that, she probably knows she would definitely believe like all this stuff about him for sure. [00:38:42] Speaker A: Well, listen, it's probably good for her that things shook out in this order chronologically, right? [00:38:49] Speaker B: If I told you this because I was supposed to tell it to you on Sunday, you would have met her right after I told you this story should have been interesting, but. So to ice that coercion cake, one of the practices of Falun Gong is stop thinking and instead recite the Master's teaching. Well, Colton points out, say that to my kids. [00:39:17] Speaker A: I'm going to start saying that to the point when they're arguing or they're playing FIFA or some and one of. [00:39:22] Speaker B: Them'S getting a little too spicy. [00:39:24] Speaker A: Onerous. Stop thinking. Recite the master's teaching. I'm going to. I'm actually going to do that. [00:39:31] Speaker B: Just see what they say. While Cult News points out that repetitive prayer and things like that can actually be a positive meditative practice. Prolonged stilling of the mind, however, may wear on the brain physically until it readjusts suddenly and sharply to its new condition of not thinking. When that happens, we have found the brain's information processing capabilities may be disrupted or enter a state of complete suspension, disorientation, detachment, hallucination, delusion, and in extreme instances, total withdrawal, which feels kind of relevant to a lot of Things like, it's the same kind of thing when, like your parents have been watching like Fox News 247 for several years. [00:40:16] Speaker A: You're describing brainwashing on you. [00:40:18] Speaker B: Right. It's like the. The real version of brainwashing basically is like you lose the ability to actually think. [00:40:25] Speaker A: Right? [00:40:26] Speaker B: Yeah. And then there's that third thing about exploitation of group members by the cult leader. The website points to the medical element. First, people are supposed to free themselves of illness through a practice of spiritual cultivation and avoid doctors and medication. This keeps Master Li in control of the whole cult's health, basically. On top of that, because of the beliefs about the outside world and about not questioning him. Falun Gong encourages family estrangement. If your family isn't supportive, you cut them the fuck off. And this includes your kids. And speaking of other horrific things involving kids, their public protests can become quite extreme. And in One case in 2001 included a mass self immolation that included children. Children, 2001. Yeah. So Shenyan also qualifies under this concept of exploitation. But we'll, we'll get there shortly. Point is, they are three for three. [00:41:28] Speaker A: It's a semantic point. A child does not self immolate. [00:41:32] Speaker B: Right, Exactly. Yeah, that's a really great point. You know, they're not pouring gasoline on themselves and lighting a match out of a profound spiritual choice that they have made. [00:41:41] Speaker A: No, they're. [00:41:42] Speaker B: They're being burnt by a. Yeah, Christ. Yeah, right. It puts a little context on the why wouldn't China want them there? Situation. But Falun Gong also owns a media outlet which you may have come across called the Epoch Times or the Epoch Times. The pronunciation of that is real up in the air. So follow your heart as to how you want to say it. I say epic, but I started coming across the Epoch Times probably a decade or so ago, and it looked fishy to me out the gate. I distinctly remember someone posting something from it. And then I went to the website and I was just trying to figure out who ran it and what their angle was. You know, like you. You see something, you go to the website, you click the about page. Who the fuck are these people? You know, this is not the New York Times. I don't know what this is. What is the Epic Times? And while I saw like more and more of this popping up, I basically avoided it out of gut instincts that it wasn't legit. It's like I just don't. I just don't trust that. Now, to be clear, the newspaper claims not to be a Falun Gong paper on the grounds that, quote, falun Gong is a question of. In an individual's belief. [00:43:01] Speaker A: She had no answer. Corrigan. For who she was representing. [00:43:05] Speaker B: Right. This is, like, being opaque about this stuff is very much part of. [00:43:10] Speaker A: And all. You know, all kind of flippancy aside here. That was the biggest kind of. [00:43:17] Speaker B: Yeah, red flag. [00:43:18] Speaker A: That was the big. You know, where do these signatures go? Who you representing? Are you working alone or you. Are you acting on behalf of another boy? She had no answer. [00:43:27] Speaker B: Did you print these out at home? Like, how did this. [00:43:29] Speaker A: She literally had no answer. She just reverted to talking about the Communists. [00:43:34] Speaker B: Because if you start talking about Falun Gong, things get weird. [00:43:40] Speaker A: Yeah, sure. [00:43:41] Speaker B: Yeah. Things really break down pretty fast. So your best bet is to sort of obfuscate what exactly? I mean, there's. There's quite a few ways in which it resembles Scientology. [00:43:54] Speaker A: Yep. [00:43:54] Speaker B: And that's kind of one of them. Like, Scientology really kind of keeping its beliefs hard for you to parse until you join up with them. Right. Like, they kind of. They want to lure you in with other things before you find out, like, oh, this is what they believe, and then you're already kind of in. And, you know, Falun Gong does that with, like, qigong and with this stuff about organ harvesting and things like that, like, oh, you're already kind of in and on our side, or whatever. All right, now let's talk about Master Lee and what he's about. You know, So I said, they say Falun Gong is a question of an individual's belief, and that's obviously silly because let's take that with, like, another religion. If you have a staff of a newspaper that's all Christians and you run stories that align with Christian beliefs with the intention of influencing people toward Christian values, well, that's a Christian. That's a Christian organization. [00:44:46] Speaker A: Right, sure. [00:44:47] Speaker B: But Christian belief is individual. So, you know, like, that's basically what they're arguing here. It's like, yes, everyone may be a Falun Gong practitioner, but the newspaper isn't, because that's an individual belief. [00:44:59] Speaker A: Got you. [00:45:01] Speaker B: But it's an organization entirely bent on Falun Gong's aims and staffed by Falun Gong practitioners and people sympathetic to their ideas. It's a Falun Gong paper, and that Falun Gong paper loves Trump. Some of the articles that ran in 2019 included headlines like, why We Should Embrace President Trump's Nationalism, Government Welfare, A Cancer Known as Communism, and President Trump Build the wall. Fuck. [00:45:27] Speaker A: This keeps. This keeps twisting and turning mine. [00:45:32] Speaker B: I am telling you, it's fucking crazy. There is so much to this. So much. Not in that pamphlet or in my shade. [00:45:42] Speaker A: Let me just consult. You want to sacred. [00:45:45] Speaker B: See where President Trump build the wall comes in there. [00:45:50] Speaker A: Do, do, do. Okay, well, here's a little bit about what is Falun Gong, right? Meditation exercises. Falun Gong has slow moving meditation exercises that look similar to Tai Chi and yoga, improving health and vitality. [00:46:05] Speaker B: Hey, you love being vital. [00:46:06] Speaker A: Oh, who doesn't? And harmonizing mind and body. Great. Truthfulness, kindness, tolerance, as we've said. Yeah. Falun Gong, blah blah, blah. Practiced worldwide without formal organization, cost or membership. It's not a Falun Gong newspaper. [00:46:21] Speaker B: That's where we're starting to. Yeah. Bend the truth a little bit again. I mean that's like you could say that about Christianity, right. Like it's without form. Like you can be a Baptist or you can be in a non denominational church, so you could be a Catholic. Like that's not a formal organization. But like, yeah, it's a formal organization. There's a church. [00:46:42] Speaker A: Why the persecution? Falun Gong practitioners follow the principles of truthfulness, kindness and tolerance, are non violent and do not retaliate. Why? Why does the Chinese Communist Party persecute this peaceful spiritual practice? Just no answer, Just a question. [00:46:56] Speaker B: That's it. It's just the question. [00:46:58] Speaker A: That's just a hanging question mark, nothing else. [00:47:02] Speaker B: It's like we can't fathom. That's crazy, let me tell you. [00:47:07] Speaker A: Okay, well, here we go. This is the closest we've got here to an answer after a government survey showed 100 million people were practicing Falun Gong in China, more than the Chinese Communist Party's membership. The Communist Party leaders feared their power would be threatened and banned Falun Gong. [00:47:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Which I mean, to be fair, there is going to be that degree, like when it comes to a government, like, and I'll mention this later, it's like, I don't stan any government. All governments are bad. You know, like, and I don't think China is worse than America or the uk. I think it is equally as bad as our governments are. I don't think it's exceptionally bad. And they are kind of playing off of the idea that like China is exceptional and they know that we're gonna believe it because we've all been taught so much. Anti communist. [00:47:59] Speaker A: I would take, I, you know, I simply don't know enough about the topic to. [00:48:03] Speaker B: Sure. Right. Yeah. And that's exactly it. Right. Like most people don't actually know anything about communist China. They just know we're supposed to think that they are a unique evil in the world. Right? Like, that's pretty much it. And there's, like I said, governments are bad, so they do a lot of really bad and shady shit. But like, look at any of ours, look at colonialism, look at capitalism. Like, you know, there's to point and look at what we're doing in Palestine. Like you're gonna look at that and then be like, oh, but they won't let this religion practice or whatever and be like, they are uniquely worse than we are while we conduct a genocide. So I just want to, you know, point out, I'm not saying China doesn't do bad things and that they don't, you know, repress a religion when they see it gaining too much power. Things like that. That's, you know, there's every reason to believe that would be a thing that would occur. But this particular group of people is very much bending the truth when this is what they're telling you about why China doesn't want them there. [00:49:11] Speaker A: Well, I don't see anything in this pamphlet about gays, transsexuals being no, you know, unrecognizable to our alien gods. [00:49:26] Speaker B: Right, yeah, they definitely leave that out. Also, I don't think that I put this in here, but one of the things that, like, if you ask them like point blank about their anti gay beliefs, their response, their official line to that is, well, all major religions are anti gay. [00:49:42] Speaker A: I see. Oh, well, okay. [00:49:44] Speaker B: So they don't deny that they are. They're just like, well, yeah, no, everybody is. And that's apparently enough. But back to the Epoch Times. Perhaps in response to being called out for their headlines before, they're now a little more subdued, if with the same conservative messages and a lot of low key anti China content. Some headlines today include or this was Thursday or Wednesday when we were going to do this. So headlines that day were, quote, market concerns about the U.S. economy may be exaggerated. Oh, let's take a stand for the unborn. 50 achievements in 50 days with a photo of Trump. And it's time to stop doubting US stance on Taiwan amid CCP's cognitive warfare. [00:50:36] Speaker A: Cognitive warfare. Take a stand for the unborn. [00:50:41] Speaker B: Meanwhile, on the right side of the page, you'll find a recommended reading panel which includes two books entitled how the Specter of Communism is Ruling Our World and nine commentaries on the Communist Party. Both books are published by the Epoch Times. And in 2019, the Epoch Times spent over $2 million on pro Trump Facebook ads. I Believe I read somewhere else that like Facebook actually like cracked the whip on them, then were like, you can't, you can't do that. We can't allow you to just spend all that money on like straight up Trump ads. That's not allowed. [00:51:19] Speaker A: So I'm trying to connect the dots with the red string in my mind here. Right. [00:51:25] Speaker B: And I've still got more. So there's maybe things that. [00:51:30] Speaker A: Would not. Would an organization like this being so pro Trump and representing as it claims, to millions of Chinese citizens. [00:51:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:48] Speaker A: Would it not make political sense for Trump to exert pressure on China to allow this organization to exist? [00:51:55] Speaker B: Sure. Yeah. I, I don't know if he has made any statements about that that actually didn't come up in things, but. Absolutely. I think if he knew they were his biggest fans or whatever, he would probably use that feels like something he would enjoy. Propaganda. Yeah. Like they. Yeah, this group loves me and they're being persecuted and whatnot. Yeah. I don't, I don't know. I would have to look into whether he has said anything about it. But Falun Gong is not into being questioned about any of this stuff. Well, they clearly know. Yeah, they clearly know that being anti gay, anti science, anti medicine, pro Trump and convinced aliens are controlling the world are not super popular ideas and will not help them spread their religion. [00:52:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:45] Speaker B: So like I said, they take kind of a Scientology approach to being asked about it all. The author of the New Yorker article talked of receiving a 600 word email from a Falun Gong rep, upset that she was even asking them about these things and claiming that discussing negative elements of Falun Gong helps China to persecute them. Further, those who do question are threatened with lawsuits and subjected to personal attacks. Exact same thing that Scientology does for Falun Gong's part to what your lady was talking about. They assert massive persecution in China, which if true, is horrifying. [00:53:26] Speaker A: Yes. [00:53:27] Speaker B: The central claim is that they were, quote, targets of a mass program by the Chinese government to harvest their organs while in prison. According to the New York Times, China just on this. [00:53:39] Speaker A: Right. I. I left my conversation with our, you know, our favorite Falun Gong practitioner thinking this just sounds like horseshit, right? Yeah, it seems a little what you practice. It just seems in a world. Look, the podcast I co host, right. I know there's all fucking manner of horrific stuff going on out there. I know it. But this didn't fucking so right with my burger and my Diet Coke. Unfortunately it didn't have Pepsi. I did, you know, just a cursory Google. And it seems more plausible than I initially. [00:54:22] Speaker B: Right. [00:54:24] Speaker A: Kind of chalked it up as being no one is fucking stealing organs from harmless fucking Buddhist adjacent, you know, park martial art practitioners. No one's doing that. I thought to myself, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. Wait a minute. Here's an article in Reuters. Here's an article in the New York Times. [00:54:43] Speaker B: You'll note when you go. If you click on any of those articles, the sources are all the same one thing that they are referring to. And then Falun Gong practitioners saying that this has happened. So it was like Human Rights Watch put out a report saying that this was occurring, which they largely took from Falun Gong practitioners saying that it was happening. Let me tell you a little bit about this. So like I said, the claim is that their, their organs are being harvested while they are in prison. And China refutes this. They did say that executed prisoners were a primary source of organs for transplant surgeries in the country, but they denied that they were systematically harvesting organs of detainees, period, let alone Falun Gong specifically. So their claim, you know, is like they are alive and having their organs pulled out of them and stuff like that. China's like, we do not do that. That's not a thing. Don't take living people's organs out of them, you know, while they're in prison or anywhere else for that matter. But we do, if someone is executed, take their organs. [00:55:50] Speaker A: And yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. China admit. Well, they, they, they claim to have stopped it in the last 10 years. [00:55:55] Speaker B: But I'll tell you my. Please, please, please do. So the New York Times talked to Nicholas Beckelin. I'm not sure he, I think he's American, but it's kind of a French looking name, so I'm kind of splitting the difference here. Okay, but he's a China scholar at Yale who specifically researches the use of prisoner organs in transplants in China. This is what he does for a living, is research China's prison transplant racket, if you will. He said there is no evidence that they are systematically targeting Falun Gong members for organ harvesting. And in 2017, a lawyer who specifically defends members of Falun Gong in court said that as far as he knew, only three or four members of Falun Gong had ever died in prison, and he'd never heard a single thing about live organ transplants which the group claimed were happening. So these are two people who have extremely direct knowledge of both the practice of this, you know, so called organ harvesting in China and of defending Falun Gong members who were imprisoned by the ccp. And both said there's absolutely no indication, no one there has said this is happening. There's no records of this happening. They are in these places seeing it. And no one has ever said that there is anything like this. So also, as you were getting to. The practice of getting organs from prisoners without prior consent has been completely banned in China for a decade, although there are those who claim that it is still ongoing and it may be. I'm not gonna. I didn't read enough into that to have an opinion on whether or not they are still taking organs from prisoners, but officially on the books, that's not a thing. And as far as we can tell from experts who are completely involved in Falun Gong and in this, the research into the transplant thing, it's never happened. It's not a real thing. So big grain of salt on what they're claiming in terms of persecution in China here. And I think your question before, too, about, you know, like, how would they know you're a practitioner of Falun Gong and things like that. Like, I. I obviously, as we've talked about a million times in this, come from an evangelical background. And one of the huge things that, like, if you really wanted to be, like, a missionary, you go to China and you smuggle Bibles because you're not allowed to have a Bible in China and stuff like that. [00:58:29] Speaker A: You never did that, right? [00:58:30] Speaker B: No, I never did that, but I know plenty of people who did, and no one ever got caught for anything or stuff like that. And I think there are, like, places in China in which perhaps that is true. Like, my friend Emily did work for an organization that worked with persecuted Christians around the world. And so I know that there can be dangers to that, but in general, there's no way for you. Them to know unless you make a big deal of being a Christian, of being a Falun Gong practitioner or whatever. Like, if you were in your living room doing qigong moves. [00:59:03] Speaker A: Well, exactly, exactly. [00:59:04] Speaker B: They're not gonna bust. Like just Kool Aid. Man in and exactly. [00:59:07] Speaker A: You wake up in a bathtub full of ice, right? [00:59:11] Speaker B: Like, there is, you know, always underground spaces for religion and things like that. And, you know, there may be danger to this, but I think there's a large degree of, like, you have to think about the, like, the reality of that. Right. Like, what are the. And the mechanisms by which they would be able to jail. [00:59:33] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. [00:59:34] Speaker B: 100 million people. [00:59:35] Speaker A: A story as outlandish as this needs detail. I need to know the. The chain of how this actually happens. Thanks. [00:59:42] Speaker B: Exactly. So, like I said, I'm obviously not one to take the word of any government on things. I'm not. I'm not caping for China or anything like that. Just like I would never cape for America or anywhere else. But when you've got an outside scholar who specifically studies this practice, like, there's nothing to show that happened, I'm inclined to question it. And a lot of sources that I read were similarly pretty skeptical, unless they were super team Falun Gong or anti China. Seemed like generally, anyone who, like, put work into, like, researching it was like, wait, every scholar I talked to says this didn't happen. But persecution is very important to Falun Gong, just like it is for Christians. The idea that they're being persecuted is what drives people to them. That's why she comes to you on the street with a pamphlet emphasizing persecution. Right. Like, that is the angle. Grab you by that and then take you in. Which brings us back to Shen Yun, which Li created specifically to tell the world about the persecution Falun Gong is experiencing at the hands of Communist China. So the New Yorker article I mentioned earlier, written by Jia Tolentino, is the first I ever remember someone describing what an actual show is like. Because Shenyan kind of doesn't feel like a real thing. The ads are everywhere, but, you know. [01:01:03] Speaker A: It feels like a front. [01:01:07] Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah. But it is real. And Talentino's parents took her to see it one Christmas. Now, let me tell you, Mark, the messaging of Shen Yin is not subtle. From the commercials, you'd basically expect just a big, colorful, acrobatic dance show, something you'd see in Vegas. You'd, you know, like a Cirque du Soleil type situation. [01:01:28] Speaker A: Yeah, like the Shaolin Monks. [01:01:30] Speaker B: The Shaolin Monks. [01:01:32] Speaker A: You know what I mean? There was like, a touring show of the Monks of Shaolin. I don't know if they ever still don't. If it still goes round. But, you know, lying on bed and nails and fucking breaking boards with their fingers and hammering fucking nails into their heads. [01:01:45] Speaker B: Power Team. [01:01:46] Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. [01:01:48] Speaker B: But that's not what Shenyan is. The show has two hosts guide the experience, telling the audience about the dances, which have names like Goodness in the face of evil and the world divinely restored. Yeah. The dancers do their majestic moves in front of a huge digital backdrop with all kinds of scenery and cool trickery. Like dancers on the screen suddenly walking out of it and appearing as a living dancer on stage. Which, you know, I appreciate after my raving about Buster Keaton a few weeks ago. That's the kind of showmanship and trickery I like to see. Then the hosts get to the evangelizing, talking about Falun Dafa, which as I said, is just another name for Falun Gong, and they introduce a dance in which a young woman is kidnapped and jailed by the Chinese police and then her bloody organs are harvested and put in a box on stage. For some reason, they don't, they don't include that part in the commercial. It's weird. Wonder why. And I honestly wonder when they're getting those like, little interviews for the ads at the end, how many people they approach who are like, dude, that was weird. As like, I wonder how many people go there and come out like, what? And it's like, all right, next person. [01:03:03] Speaker A: The what, what Kind of got me thinking that there was actually a lot to this was the seemingly quite believable and legit looking organizations that have spoken about the organ harvesting of Falun Gong members as a concern. Like UN kind of panels. It, you know, the Australian Senate, the UK Parliament, European Parliament, lots and lots of seemingly quite legit bodies. [01:03:39] Speaker B: Right. [01:03:40] Speaker A: Have added credence to this. This doesn't seem like something that, that is coming from just saying this. [01:03:48] Speaker B: No, but again, yeah, if you look at where they get their information from, it's all the same thing. And they, you have to take into account that all of these organizations already assume China is doing terrible things. And it's like, if you want to vilify this country already, then like, yeah, that's definitely a thing they're doing. Like, most of these people probably never even questioned. [01:04:19] Speaker A: So would, would the UN have been as easily hoodwinked by this story as I was? Briefly. [01:04:29] Speaker B: Absolutely. 100% bold. [01:04:33] Speaker A: Corrigan. [01:04:36] Speaker B: I said I was looking through like these resolutions and things like this and it all kind of goes back to the like one report that occurred about this and that's pretty much it. But every expert, and I'm not talking about Chinese experts, I'm talking about experts, independent experts, objective experts have said there's no record of this at all. [01:04:58] Speaker A: Good. [01:04:58] Speaker B: So. Right. It's a, it's one of those things every, like you come across. This is not the first time this has happened where I've seen something that like you see on the world stage, everyone talking about. Then you look into it and you're like, I don't, I don't see this anywhere. Like, where are they getting this information from? Yeah. But let's go back to Shenyan for now. So more dancing, some audience participation, including everyone learning how to say I love Xin Yun in Chinese. [01:05:26] Speaker A: Shut up. [01:05:28] Speaker B: Yep. This is part of the whole thing. [01:05:30] Speaker A: Amazing. [01:05:31] Speaker B: And this is. This is the part I remember really standing out to me when I read this article. In 2019, a guy comes out on stage to sing about the glory of following Falun Dafa in Chinese, and the words are translated behind him on that big screen. And some of these lyrics include, atheism and evolution are deadly ideas. Modern trends destroy what makes us human. Lyrics. Just up there. [01:05:58] Speaker A: It's. Yeah, it's catchy screen. [01:06:00] Speaker B: Real catchy. Yeah, definitely. I'm just singing it all the way home. It's bananas in and of itself, because can you imagine going to a show you think is just like some spirited ballet, and suddenly they're like, your ideas are evil and destroy society? Like, what? I just wanted to see people do flips, whatever. [01:06:17] Speaker A: I'm glad. I mean, because the. The TV ad came on one time while we were all sat around in the living room watching. Fucking. It. It gets. It gets prime time airplay over here, like, in the middle of the day. [01:06:27] Speaker B: Yeah, all day. Yeah. [01:06:29] Speaker A: It's like celebrity catchphrase. You'll get the adverse for Shen Yun 100%. [01:06:36] Speaker B: But on top of this, like, I feel like it just shows how spiritually illiterate Christians are because you have all these white Christian folks, like, wow, this show was everything. You must see it. I loved it so much. And, you know, it's because this condemns atheists and evolution, but it's also praising Falun Dafa, a cult with a guy who's basically claiming to be Jesus. Not everyone is your friend just because you hate the same people and ideas. And I'm just gonna once again read from the article because Tolentino's description of how the performance ends is incredible. In the final dance number, a group of Falun Dafa followers who wore blue and yellow and clutched books of religious teachings battled for space in a public square with corrupt youth. Their corruption was evident because they were wearing black, looking at their cell phones. And in the case of two men holding hands, Chairman Mao appeared and the sky turned black. The city in the digital backdrop was obliterated by an earthquake, then finished off by a communist tsunami. A red hammer and sickle glowed in the center of the wave. Days. I rubbed my eyes and saw a huge bearded face disappearing in the water. Was that. I said to my brother, wondering if I needed to go to the hospital. Karl Marx, he said, yeah, I think it was a tsunami with a face. With the Karl Marx Wild, right? You get none of this from the commercials and flyers and all that. And like I said, in fact, by pure happenstance, the day I was going to, you know, tell this to you in the first place, I received a flyer in the mail for this and it doesn't, you know, much like yours, it does not say anything about this. We get through music and dance. Shenyan revives. The five millennia of traditional Chinese culture has been almost lost under communist rule. Since Shen Yin's inception, Beijing has tried to stop people from seeing Shenyan, threatening theaters, intimidating sponsors and spreading misinformation. Come find out why the Chinese Communist regime fears a cultural revival. It's time to see what Beijing doesn't want you to see. It's intense. [01:08:42] Speaker A: It's super intense. And I'm very disappointed to have to say that I've missed Shen Yun's trip to the UK this year. They were, tickets are expensive in London, in Birmingham and they, that was it. [01:08:56] Speaker B: Don't worry, they'll be back in three months. [01:08:58] Speaker A: I don't doubt it. But I want to see the tsunami. I want to see the Karl Marx. [01:09:02] Speaker B: Oh yeah, the Karl Marx. I, I bet that's like a central feature. I bet they don't take that out. [01:09:06] Speaker A: I won't see it and yet. Right. And I'm sorry to keep going on about the organ harvesting but it's legitimized as fuck in the press, you know. [01:09:17] Speaker B: But not by anyone who has any direct connection to the practice. [01:09:21] Speaker A: The Telegraph, 2023, 9th of June 2023. How Western medics can help end forced organ harvesting in China. [01:09:30] Speaker B: Does it say of falun gong? [01:09:31] Speaker A: In June 2021, the United nations stated that the victims were religious minorities, including FAL practitioners and Uyghurs. This isn't the Telegraph, this is. [01:09:41] Speaker B: Yeah, I think I read that one as well. Yeah, let me go on here. [01:09:49] Speaker A: Yeah, please. Because I'm struggling a little bit here. I, I, yeah, I'm struggling with the fact that this has been so seemingly heavily legitimized by the press and by organizations. [01:09:59] Speaker B: Yeah, it's bananas to see that because I kept on trying to find like anyone who like was like close to, to this practice, who had witnessed this or anything like that. And it's just, all of it is just hearsay. And again it's like it's clearly not true. Like if you think about this in any rational way, Obviously not this article. [01:10:22] Speaker A: In the Telegraph, much of what we suspected about forced organ harvesting was officially confirmed by a UK based independent people's tribunal called the China Tribunal, which was formed in 2019. [01:10:34] Speaker B: Right. It's like there's no, you never get someone confirming it who is like, you know, a researcher working on this stuff. It's like, here's a group of people who comes together to defeat the Chinese regime and they say this is happening. Like that's a, that's a problem. I think, like, listen, if it's happening and there's, you know, evidence of this or whatever. But I read through so many things and the only experts, the only experts that were ever con, like interviewed by the New York Times and the Guardian and you know, all these different papers all said they could find no actual person with like firsthand knowledge of this happening. [01:11:21] Speaker A: Incredible. [01:11:24] Speaker B: Let's go back to Shen Yun again, please. [01:11:25] Speaker A: Yeah, look, please, please, please. Yes. [01:11:28] Speaker B: So basically it's missionary shit, right? Like that's what they're doing message wise. They're going around this country and others proselytizing for their religion extremely overtly and white people are eating it the fuck up. But the anti atheist, anti science message and all the weird beliefs and things I told you about the leader still aren't the only problems with xinyun. There are six Shenan companies consisting of about 40 dancers and 80 orchestra members each. And they're trained at the Feitian Academy on the Dragon Springs campus in New York, a huge estate where Master Li lives and controls the whole religion to this day. To this day. Yeah. And if you look up pictures of this place, like, look up the Dragon Springs campus. It is massive and ornate and like exactly the kind of place you imagine a cult leader would build for themselves in upstate New York, a whole compound. They will go out not only into those 96 US cities, but also cities around the world like Vancouver, London, Berlin, Auckland, Taipei and so on. And on its face again, nothing wrong with that. But the New York Times published a massive expose in August of last year, which is likely what Shenyan's new attack ads are referencing as complicit with the Chinese regime to try to silence them. So the Times talked to 25 former dancers, musicians and instructors, all of whom described decades of abusive behavior and exploitation. These interviews were accompanied by smuggled photos and hundreds of pages of public records. To bolster the accounts. The performers described working 15 hour days that not only included actually performing, but doing the work of setting up and breaking down the shows too, which is pretty unheard of. Like, that's what my husband does for a living. You have a team of folks who do that kind of labor. You don't have the performers do it. Unless you're like a garage band playing villa pianos by the airport. [01:13:19] Speaker A: To this day, I have friends who still work in theater and smaller companies, local productions. Obviously you fucking break the set yourself, but right, yeah. [01:13:26] Speaker B: Not Shenyan, right? Before they could even go on stage, all of these performers would train at the school in upstate New York, where they were indebted to Falun Gong for the cost of their training, food and lodging. As such, Falun Gong could justify paying them wages as low as $12,000 a year. During this training and their performances, many would sustain injuries which they then had to ignore. One dancer, Cheng Qing Ling, talked of having had an untreated injury that caused her left arm to go numb, but justifying it and all the terrible experiences there as having higher meaning. It's all a test. Like many Christians, they believe that suffering shows devotion. Another dancer, Kate Wang, dropped out of school in Taiwan and moved to Dragonspa Brings at the age of 11 when she began her Shenyan training. She described lying on her back for a flexibility class one day when the instructor came over, grabbed her ankle and kept pushing it back towards her head until she heard a snap from her thigh that she said sounded like it echoed across the classroom. The teacher told Li and the school principal they touched her leg to see if it was broken, but recommended no further medical attention. She limped for weeks. A few years later, she dislocated a kneecap after landing a flip on stage in Seattle. A classmate simply popped it back into place, and after being given an ice pack, she went back on stage and danced for the next two hours in excruciating pain. [01:14:55] Speaker A: Sounds like Spider Man. Turn off the dark, right? [01:14:59] Speaker B: Seriously, Just every day. That's what it is. She could not ask for medical attention in either case because she would have been seen as not believing fervently enough. In Lee, a musician talked about frequently getting injured slicing his hands on metal instrument cases while packing the cargo trucks after the performances. On one occasion, he was cut so badly he had to stitch himself up with a hotel sewing kit. Another musician, a violinist, complained of sharp pains in his shoulder. Master Lee touched his hand and shoulder and pronounced him heeled, but the pain persisted because that's not real. He played through that pain for years until finally leaving Shen Yin, at which point a doctor found he had a bulging disc in his spine. Emotional abuse is rampant too, especially in the form of humiliation. Dancer Chang Cheng Ko, who was at who at 13 was 5 foot 5 and weighed 110 pounds, was singled out by her teacher for being fat, and her classmates were told to report her if they saw her buying snacks. She said that there were times that her classmates physically blocked her from entering the campus market. By age 20, she was eating one meal of rice porridge every day and a different teacher chastised her, asking her why she was eating it all. The dancers were subjected to weekly weigh ins, their weights posted on the classroom wall with the names of anyone deemed fat written in red. One dancer was told to only eat cucumbers and tomatoes. Shame is a huge part of xianyin training, with performers who make mistakes berated in front of their peers, often for an hour or more if they mess up a move or play a missed note. Meanwhile, while staying at this compound, their lives are totally controlled. They can't see their families nor leave the complex at all without express permission from the higher ups. And if you want to quit, you're met with threats from the spiritual to the physical. People are told they are in danger in the outside world without Master Li's protection, or that they'll just straight up go to hell and they'll also have to fully repay the tuition costs if they leave. And on such a pittance of a salary. It's not like any of these folks have anything saved up to do so. Seven former members told the Times that Dragonspring said they were on the hook for some $200,000 of tuition when they announced their departure. The group thankfully never followed up. I think it also goes without saying that dating is strictly controlled as well, with relationships often being arranged between foreign students and American students, likely for visa reasons, but also because matchmaking is a tactic to tie young people closely to the movement, viola player Ron Luo explained. It's like keeping your labor. Getting a person that fits the mold of what they want is quite difficult. You need the religious background, you need to be subservient to unreasonable demands. Students are forbidden to have cell phones till their early twenties and have very limited access to the Internet only from designated computers. Their media intake, including movies, music and books is controlled and they're not allowed to look at ordinary media, meaning anything. Falun Gong does not approve. And all of this is pretty wild by the way, considering their whole thing is supposed to be protest for China's controller. [01:18:14] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah right. [01:18:15] Speaker B: Like that's their whole central bag is like oh, China is trying to take control of us and everything. And then they like completely control every aspect of these kids lives. And asked about this, of course, the spokesperson said they're an Asian community that values discipline, study and training and is characterized by open, honest and direct interactions. And that any criticism of this is quote, highly subjective and smacks of cultural bigotry. So basically playing on cultural stereotypes about Asians and their tough love and saying that anyone who thinks what Shen Yun is doing is wrong is actually racist because this is just Chinese culture you. [01:18:51] Speaker A: Are describing at length. A cult. Yes, let's. [01:18:56] Speaker B: Very much so. You know. [01:18:59] Speaker A: Only this cult has a show. [01:19:02] Speaker B: Yeah, right. Like where were. Why don't all the other ones have shows? [01:19:05] Speaker A: At least that's a new angle. [01:19:06] Speaker B: Well, hey, Scientology has olliewoods, so I feel like Lee has to have studied L. Ron Hubbard for sure. But students who experience all of this are actively discouraged from discussing what they're going through with their parents, whom they generally only see once a year during a two week summer break. So like you said, when we talk about that third cult criteria of exploitation of its members, holy shit. Does Falun Gong fit the bill? While these kids in their teens and early 20s are breaking their bodies for $13,000 a year, a single ticket for the show can run as much as over $300. And they regularly sell out huge venues like the David Koch Theatre at New York's Lincoln center. That theater has 2,586 seats. So they're making money hand over fist. And it's also worth noting, on top of everything, their whole deal about reclaiming 5,000 year old Chinese tradition and learning this dance that's been forbidden in China and whatnot is also totally bunk. Author Yu Tian Wang explained Shenyan's claims to purity are a way for Falun Gong practitioners to reclaim their identity from persecution and that they're bolstered by a pre existing tendency on the part of Western audiences to perceive Asian bodies and Asian culture as authentic. And as Chinese dance scholar Emily Wilcox explained, the idea that Chinese dance is banned in China is patently absurd. Classical dance is actually hugely important in China and it's also quite new, having arisen in the 1950s as an amalgamation of various Chinese art forms. Notably ballet and gymnastics, which are the basis of Shen Yun's performances, are very much not traditional Chinese forms. According to Wilcox, it's all just a big facade to both grant the show legitimacy and trick white people who are fascinated by the exotic Orient that they're seeing something deeply traditional, authentic and indeed forbidden. So for all these years you've been wondering about Xin Yin, this shiny dance troupe staring at you from billboards and occupying your mailbox, Dear friends, is a cult? [01:21:09] Speaker A: This is a fucking story. And A half. [01:21:12] Speaker B: I know, right? It's a lot. And yeah, it's, you know, this idea of the whole organ harvesting thing. You know, I was searching around and trying to find, you know, where does this come from and all of that, but it kind of becomes one of those things where if you repeat it enough. And again, most of the world wants to believe that, you know, China is doing the worst possible things that we can imagine. Then you stop having to, like, have a witness to it. Now it's just common knowledge. Now, we all know China is harvesting the organs of all of these people. You know, systematically targeting Falun Gong and, you know, all of this kind of stuff, despite the fact that, you know, nobody has ever actually seen it occur. [01:22:02] Speaker A: I'm not convinced it's that simple. I'm going to tell you this. I'm not convinced it's that simple. I have an article open in front of me, okay? Featuring testimony from one Cheng Piming, who describes his experience being mentally and physically tortured in a Chinese hospital. But it also has a photo of him with a huge, like, bilateral scar across the right hand side of his body and a fucking CT scan showing portions of his liver and lung missing. [01:22:51] Speaker B: Mm. [01:22:53] Speaker A: From. [01:22:53] Speaker B: I need to, like, see it or whatever. Of course, of course, of course, of course. [01:22:57] Speaker A: But I. What? I, I, I, I'm finding it very difficult to believe that global medical bodies, international fucking. [01:23:11] Speaker B: Well, they're not medical bodies. Keep that in mind. [01:23:14] Speaker A: They're. Well, yeah. [01:23:17] Speaker B: Like who? [01:23:18] Speaker A: Give me a sec. So this panel. Let me just find it. Feel free to cut this. Do it. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. So we have witnesses here from a panel in the Human Rights Commission, right? [01:23:37] Speaker B: That's the, that's the one. That's the one that gets cited by everyone. The Human Rights Commission. [01:23:41] Speaker A: Yes, sir. Geoffrey. Nice. Former lead prosecutor, the UN International Criminal Tribunal. Right. A Robert Destrow, former Assistant Secretary for Democracy, Human Rights and Labor from the Columbus School of Law. A Matthew P. Robertson, a doctoral candidate from the Australian National. [01:24:05] Speaker B: I don't know who any of these. [01:24:05] Speaker A: People are, but nor do I. Nor do I. [01:24:07] Speaker B: Nor do I care what they say. But they saw it happen. They watched people get their organs taken out. [01:24:12] Speaker A: No, but surely the standard of evidence for these people would be higher than, like, one or two of the same sources being cited. [01:24:26] Speaker B: Well, you already named. The one source that it's come from in that very thing is the Human Rights Commission. That's the one that everyone goes off of. So if it's that, it is literally one source that has ever said this has happened and everyone has gone off of the Human Rights Commission. So if you find one that doesn't have the HRC as its source. As its source? Yeah. Then you're. Then you might be cooking with gas here. [01:24:53] Speaker A: Do you see what I'm saying about standard of evidence? The kind of. [01:24:56] Speaker B: Right. Yeah, no, absolutely. [01:24:57] Speaker A: Watermark for something being considered a concern. [01:25:01] Speaker B: Yeah. You have to also acknowledge that our standard for China is very low. [01:25:08] Speaker A: Understood. Yes, of course. [01:25:10] Speaker B: And what I would say about this, like, Like I said, I'm don't cape for a government. Right. Like, they could very well be doing this. There is no physical evidence that anyone directly involved with researching this or defending the people who allegedly would be suffering from this has ever seen. Not one person who worked directly with this has seen this. So you can have, like, a guy who's missing part of his whatever, but we don't know what that story is. Maybe it was his organs being taken from him, but we don't know that. Right. Like, there is no evidence. I say a guy who has, you know, been the defense lawyer for hundreds of Falun Gong practitioners never once having come across this is, you know. [01:26:02] Speaker A: Sure. [01:26:03] Speaker B: Something that's supposed to be systemic. Right. Like something that is supposed to be happening constantly. And we know that there are tons. [01:26:10] Speaker A: Of watchdogs and Chang is, of course, a Falun Gong practitioner. [01:26:14] Speaker B: Quote, Right? Yeah. And we know that, like, people are watching, right? [01:26:19] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:26:20] Speaker B: So even, like I was saying, since China has allegedly ended the taking of organs from prisoners, like, there are still watchdogs that are going. They haven't completely stopped doing this. But we're talking about from dead prisoners, right? Not from any living person. [01:26:35] Speaker A: Yeah, we. [01:26:36] Speaker B: Nobody is. [01:26:37] Speaker A: The argument is not that China have never shaded, never taken anybody by a kidney or two. I mean, they do this, right? [01:26:44] Speaker B: They say, they acknowledge that this is a practice that they had for a long period of time. So we're not talking about something. But if. If in all of this time there is one report that everyone is using as the basis of this, but no other watchdogs that have been watching the practice occur and reporting on it have mentioned this, that feels to me like it's at least something that needs to be, like, hugely questioned. [01:27:12] Speaker A: What a fucking story this is, though. [01:27:15] Speaker B: Yeah, it's, It's. It's interesting. Like, obviously, if it's a thing that, you know, is happening or whatever, like, it's terrible. And that's not how you punish people for being in a cult, you know, But I just think it would be something that we hear of as being more systemic and that watchdogs would be sounding the alarm on a whole lot more if millions of people were having this, you know, systematically done to them. It would be more than just some religion that does dance moves all over the United States, you know, wow. Especially because it's China and we hate China. [01:27:51] Speaker A: Listen, I'll say, you know, as we approach our fifth anniversary, this is one of my favorite stories that we've ever uncovered, one of my favorite stories we've ever surfaced, one of my favorite ways that we've both experienced it independently of one another from totally different angles. Like on the fucking. At the same time. [01:28:09] Speaker B: Yeah. Bananas, bananas. Joag. The joag journey. [01:28:13] Speaker A: That's good shit. That's what that is. Let me quote directly from my notes, if I may. [01:28:20] Speaker B: Yes, please do. [01:28:21] Speaker A: Fucking look at these nerds. Oh, mise en scene. [01:28:25] Speaker B: I don't think anyone has ever said mise en scene in such a horny way before. [01:28:29] Speaker A: The way I whispered the word sex. Cannibal routine. [01:28:31] Speaker B: Worst comes to worst, Mark, I'm willing to guillotine you for science. [01:28:35] Speaker A: Thank you. That's really, really sweet. It's cold outside, but my pancreas is talking to me. I'm. I'm gonna leg it. [01:28:41] Speaker B: You know how I feel about that, Mark? [01:28:43] Speaker A: I think you feel great about it. Ah. So, hell, I'm reeling. I'm, I'm, I'm reeling from this. I'm gonna. Right, I'm gonna. I'm gonna take just a little note of Umbridge with you here, right, If I may. [01:29:00] Speaker B: Oh, okay. Yeah. [01:29:02] Speaker A: So on my long drive, I had a five hour drive the other night when we were supposed to be recording, and I listened back to a joag from a couple of weeks ago, right? And I got you. [01:29:16] Speaker B: You got me? [01:29:17] Speaker A: I got you. I see you. I see you. [01:29:19] Speaker B: Okay. [01:29:20] Speaker A: There was a bit on this joag where I paused because I was reading something and looking something up. But I said, oh, take this pause out. It makes me look stupid. And you kept it in, knowing that I wouldn't fucking listen. Is this, Is this a hack job? Is this what this fucking podcast is? It's a fucking stiff. [01:29:38] Speaker B: I didn't even mean to do it. And I was watching the video back later because often, like, I don't listen back to the whole podcast before I post it. I like, take out where I know there was like a mistake or something like that. And so I was watching the video back like the next day, and I was like, oh, oops. And Then I thought, yeah, good thing Mark will never know. [01:29:59] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I fucking see you. [01:30:02] Speaker B: Oops. [01:30:03] Speaker A: Anyway, listen, friends, friends, friends. Let's just give you a little heads up as to how the next couple of weeks are gonna go. Are exceptionally well traveled and urbane and global fucking citizen. Corrigan. Edmonton. Where you off to? Japan. Is that right? [01:30:17] Speaker B: This time, Japan and Korea. [01:30:18] Speaker A: Real nice. [01:30:20] Speaker B: Real nice. Fun old time. Yeah, I mean, I'm a little. Got some trepidation. Gonna miss my dog, but, you know. [01:30:27] Speaker A: Your mom's looking after him. Is he? Is she? [01:30:29] Speaker B: Yep, she is. She's looking after. Looking after little Wally. And he's got a camera in his, you know, cage, so I can watch him while he's hanging out and whatnot. [01:30:38] Speaker A: I've had this conversation with some friends of ours lately. Is it a. An audio camera? Can you talk to him? [01:30:43] Speaker B: Mm. [01:30:44] Speaker A: Will you? [01:30:45] Speaker B: He doesn't like it, though. [01:30:46] Speaker A: There you go. Does it make him edgy? [01:30:48] Speaker B: Yeah. He does not appreciate my disembodied voice coming from under the tv, haunting him. No. But I do like to watch him. And sometimes he will catch, like, the camera. And every now and again he'll, like, come up and, like, put his hand, like, what are you doing? Because I can move it, you know, I can move it around. So if it moves and he's, like, bored, he'll be like, fuck is that? [01:31:11] Speaker A: Which is to say next week you'll have a little summon from me. Don't know what yet. Maybe I'll do some reading. I've got my son here that we still haven't spoken to about. Journey through the Scream franchise. And indeed my journey alongside him. My journey of redemption. Mm. [01:31:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I think we've all been waiting with bated breath for that. [01:31:31] Speaker A: Yes. So you'll either have that or I'll pick something off the old Marco bookshelf and read you something fun. [01:31:38] Speaker B: Yes. [01:31:39] Speaker A: So I think all that remains is to wish you happy travels. [01:31:45] Speaker B: Well, thank you. Yes. And we'll have one week off after that, too. So you get. You get something from Mark next week and then one week of a little break. A little breakity break, a little spring break and then. Yeah, I will. You know I will. If you're a. If you're a. What do you call it? Great bunch of lads, whatever our top tier is on our KO Fi. I will undoubtedly be buying you presents in Japan as well. So you'll have those to look forward to as well. Yeah. You know, Very nice. [01:32:16] Speaker A: Just super briefly on Noel Edmonds. What he did was he claimed that a machine that produces electromagnetic pulses. An EMP pad had an ability to tackle cancer. [01:32:30] Speaker B: Course. Yeah. [01:32:32] Speaker A: And he responded to somebody on Twitter suggesting that he may have developed cancer because of his negative attitude. [01:32:46] Speaker B: Yeah, that's probably it. Yeah, that's definitely it. [01:32:50] Speaker A: He's a complicated man is Noel Edmonds. [01:32:54] Speaker B: And if you haven't watched us watch him on our Kofi, you're missing out because we had a really good time. [01:33:00] Speaker A: We did. [01:33:00] Speaker B: Watching that. And when I get back, we'll do more watching stuff and we'll do some let's playing and all of that and it'll be wonderful. But until then, I guess there's just like one task. [01:33:10] Speaker A: Yes. [01:33:11] Speaker B: They gotta do, right, Mark? What they gotta do. [01:33:12] Speaker A: Just keep your organs where they are. Question. Batty looking old ladies thrusting petitions in your hand talking about organ harvesting. Question everything. Accept nothing. Go into the world with open hearts and open minds and stay spooky. [01:33:33] Speaker B: You're here.