Ep. 174: a real mean serial killer & a royal conspiracy

[00:00:03] Speaker A: Look, everybody. Everybody knows about Bundy yawn. Everybody knows about Jeffrey Dahmer fucking snore. Everybody knows about Ed Kemper and fucking gacy. Fucking Yawnsville. I thought it might be fun to educate and school people on maybe one of the C or D tier serial killers. [00:00:24] Speaker B: There's so many of them. There's so many that fly under the radar that are perfectly interesting. And for whatever reason, they just did not capture the american mind the way the heavy hitters did. [00:00:36] Speaker A: Equally as fucked up, equally as idiosyncratic, but for whatever reason, don't have a Netflix fucking series. Haven't had that kind of the media spotlight shone upon them. So with that in mind, did you. [00:00:54] Speaker B: Just intentionally use shown there? [00:00:58] Speaker A: No. [00:00:59] Speaker B: Okay. [00:01:01] Speaker A: I don't know if you've shone. [00:01:02] Speaker B: Yeah. After the group chat today, we say shown like it's spelled. And this was. I don't know if you've checked the group chat today, but this was a back and forth dialogue. And I don't know if you have ever used that word on this show. And so it's very funny that. [00:01:16] Speaker A: Oh, that is interesting. [00:01:17] Speaker B: You brought it out. When he says Sean, he means shown. Just fyi. Go on. [00:01:23] Speaker A: No, I got out the car earlier and saw, like, 40 messages, and I haven't read. [00:01:27] Speaker B: That's too many. [00:01:28] Speaker A: So, yes, with all that in mind, why don't I. And listeners do please gather around. Pull up a chair. If you've brought sandwiches, now would be the time to take them out. I'll pass around the biscuits. And listen, won't you, of the tale of Donald Peewee Gaskins. [00:01:48] Speaker B: Nice. Yes. [00:01:49] Speaker A: What say you? Okay, I'm into it. Let's talk about Donald Peewee Gaskins. Born in 1933, March 1933. Died by electric chair on September the 619 91. Now, Donald had a rough childhood, a mix of just neglect and abuse. Absentee biological father and his stepfather, from whom he got the name Gaskins, was just doling out the harshest of physical and sexual punishments. This kid had a fucking rough start in life. Now, you see, the reason he got the name Peewee, Donald Peewee Gaskins, was because he was small as fuck. [00:02:30] Speaker B: Right, okay, that's straightforward. Yeah. [00:02:32] Speaker A: Little tiny fella. As a grown adult, he was five foot four and 130 pounds. Just a little, kind of. [00:02:38] Speaker B: He's like my height, but just like, just a rail version of me. [00:02:43] Speaker A: Yeah. He's like a little killer in my pocket. Little pocket sized murderer. Donald PV door. I know. [00:02:48] Speaker B: Little Pez dispenser of a murderer. [00:02:51] Speaker A: That's right. You pull his head back and out comes murder suites. Anyway, check this out, right? His mother took so little fucking interest in him that the first time he ever, ever heard his given name, Donald, spoken out loud was when it was read out of his first court appearance. Fucking, how mad is that? [00:03:11] Speaker B: What? [00:03:12] Speaker A: How mad is that? He'd been constantly, consistently only referred to as peewee and didn't even fucking hear his own name, Donald spoken out loud until he was. [00:03:24] Speaker B: He must have been small really early. [00:03:27] Speaker A: Well, he was always small. It is said that he drank a bottle of kerosene at age three, which fucked him up. [00:03:36] Speaker B: Suppose it would do that. I don't know if it would make you short, but it would probably have some effects. [00:03:43] Speaker A: Yes. Well, who's to say what effects they had? I mean, it was at eleven when his life started to go Withershins. He just bunked the fuck out of formal education at eleven and found himself working at a local garage tinkering with cars. And it was at that age he crossed paths with two other boys, kid called Danny and a kid called Marsh. And they bonded together, right, Marsh. M a r s h, Marsh. [00:04:13] Speaker B: Interesting name. [00:04:15] Speaker A: They formed a little group that they gave themselves the name of the trouble trio. Right. [00:04:20] Speaker B: Oh good. [00:04:21] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was in a little gang at school. It was fun, you know what I mean? Fun. Give us a fun name. But no, we didn't. [00:04:30] Speaker B: We had a name. It wasn't like we didn't get into trouble. We were called the Eddies. We all had Ed names. [00:04:35] Speaker A: Oh, nice. Ed Mounson. [00:04:37] Speaker B: Well, that was not my birth name. My Eddie name was just Edna. My poor sister. She was Ed Dweeb. [00:04:46] Speaker A: Oh, I see, you gave yourselves Edweeb. [00:04:49] Speaker B: We gave ourselves Ed names, yes. No, it wasn't like we assembled everyone who had an ed name in school, but unfortunately for my little sister, she's the only one it stuck with, so she is. To this day, at the age of 35, we still call her Ed. [00:05:03] Speaker A: Okay. Well, yes, you do, actually. I've heard that. Well, Ed, if you're listening now, I know why. Well, let me ask you this. Did the Eddies commit burglary? [00:05:12] Speaker B: Not so much, no. [00:05:14] Speaker A: Did the Eddies gang rape one of your. [00:05:17] Speaker B: Oh, no, no, absolutely not. [00:05:19] Speaker A: Because the trouble trio did. Their partnership eventually kind of unraveled when they were apprehended for gang raping. Marsh's younger sister. Yeah, at eleven. Son of a bitch. As punishment, Danny and Marsh had the shit beaten out of him by their parents, as you can imagine, leaving them fucked up, bloodied and broken Danny and Marsh left town, leaving our boy Donald alone to carry on his criminal career by himself. And at age 13, he broke in to a home in his hometown and was confronted by a girl who recognized him. And to kind of to try and stop her from grassing him up, he smashed her in the head with an axe and split her head. She survived, thankfully. But he was arrested for assault with a deadly weapon. With a tent to kill. And it was during those court proceedings that it was when he heard his name, Donald, spoken aloud for the first time. How incredible is that? [00:06:14] Speaker B: That's absolutely wild. [00:06:17] Speaker A: So from there, he gets sent to the South Carolina industrial school for boys. And wouldn't you know it, his diminutive stature made him an immediate target. [00:06:27] Speaker B: Fancy that. [00:06:28] Speaker A: Yep. Tiny for his age. Immediately subjected to brutal, brutal sexual assaults by other inmates. Yeah, his strategy for survival was either accept protection from the boss in exchange for getting raped or continually try to escape. But while he was in jail in 1952, while he was in prison, he earned the respect of his fellow inmates by murdering one of the most feared guys in the prison, a guy called Hazel Brazell. Gat claimed it was self feared. [00:07:02] Speaker B: Guy in prison was named Hazel. [00:07:04] Speaker A: Hazel, yes. Hazel Brazell. That got him an extra three years from voluntary manslaughter. But from that point on, kind of like Rorschach, he became the fucking aggressor instead of the victim. [00:07:16] Speaker B: How was that? Involuntary manslaughter. What did he claim? [00:07:19] Speaker A: Self defense. He claimed self defense. [00:07:21] Speaker B: Okay, got you. [00:07:23] Speaker A: But none of it. [00:07:26] Speaker B: So this little guy becomes a big guy. [00:07:30] Speaker A: Exactly. His reputation starts to grow. He escaped in 1955, hit himself in the back of a rubbish van and fled to Florida. I tried not to say garbage truck clean in what it is, he escapes to Florida, he gets employment, firstly with a carnival, and then he gets rearrested. He gets sent to custody, he gets paroled. This time he finds work with a traveling preacher. So traveling around the place, a transient lifestyle, until. Until 1969, when his murder career really started to begin in earnest. Okay. Now, our boy peewee actually wrote memoirs whilst in prison. And he claimed in his memoirs that in 1969, his first murder victim was a blonde female hitchhiker who he picked up in 69 and murdered. Tortured. Sank her in a swamp. He had a word for these kind of casual murders. He would call them his coastal kills. Coastal. Coastal, yeah. And both men and women who he claimed to kill purely for pleasure. He claimed to have done one every couple of weeks. Every six weeks or so. When he went hunting to quell what he called his feelings, of bothersomeness. [00:08:47] Speaker B: That's a really nice word for what's happening there. [00:08:53] Speaker A: Urge for killing. And it isn't just killing. I mean, it's really fucking full on torturing. Mutilation. He would attempt to keep his victims alive for as long as possible. Stabbing, suffocating, mutilating. He even claimed to have cannibalized some of them. He even claimed to have eaten of their flesh in some instances. Now, the thing is, none of those early coastal murders, there's any real forensic evidence for. The only ones that he could be tried on were the ones that followed. From November 1970 and his murder career was intense. In 1970, he committed. He killed his own niece. His own fucking niece and her friend, aged 15 and 17. He beat him to death. His version of it was they were taking drugs and he was enraged. Others say they were both rapes gone wrong, right? Yeah, it goes on. 71 and 72. Poisoning. Lady called Martha Anne Dix in 1971, poisoned. 1973, rape and murder of a Doreen Hope Dempsey, a 22 year old, and her fucking two year old daughter. [00:10:06] Speaker B: Come on, man. [00:10:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Absolutely fucking insane. What Peewee also was, was a massive, massive racist. Right? [00:10:18] Speaker B: Nice. Let's just add to that. Why not? Not a big enough piece of shit. Let's just also be racist. [00:10:24] Speaker A: An open died in the world racist. Who killed? He claimed that he'd killed that two year old because she was a child of a marriage with a black fella. So killed it because of rage. 1974, shot criminal associate of his, a guy called Johnny Sellers. Shot him in the back of the head and stabbed his ex girlfriend Jesse Ruth Judy to death over an argument over money, over a boat that he'd stolen. 1975, Silas Yates, age 45. Peewee slit his throat in a kind of a murder for hire kind of hitman scheme. Okay, Interestingly, small man, big stories. Forensics shown that the guy cut his throat with a knife. But Peewee claimed that he'd done it by karate chop. [00:11:16] Speaker B: Okay, little buddy, I'm sure that powerful. [00:11:21] Speaker A: More. In 1975, a lady by the name of Diane Neely, she was shot as well as her boyfriend, Avery Howard. Just the murders go on. 1975 was a big year. He also killed a 13 year old girl by the name of Kim Gelkins. Killed her to stop her from knocking to him. On the police. She was being sexually abused by Gaskin and a lot of other men. So Gaskin killed her to stop her going to the cops. Another two that year, Dennis Bellamy and Harvey Knight, aged 27 and 15. Half brothers. And Diane Bellamy, the girl he'd killed earlier, was their sister shot them both in the back of the head. [00:11:59] Speaker B: Yeah, he doesn't have an MO or anything like that. It's just kind of like, whatever. Sometimes I do this out of enjoyment. Sometimes it's a necessity. Sometimes just like whatever. [00:12:09] Speaker A: Yes. Now, 1982, right? He's now back in prison and he's killing people in prison. He killed a guy who was also on death row with him. A guy who was in prison from 1978 for double murder. Peewee kills him. And this is the fucking fascinating one, right? September 1982. This one got him the title in the press. The meanest man in America, right? Peewee. This little fuck. [00:12:41] Speaker B: It seems like an understatement, but check this out, right? [00:12:47] Speaker A: There was a fellow death row inmate by the name of Rudolph Tyiner, right? He was on death row for accidentally killing a couple during an armed robbery which went south, okay? Peewee gets hired to kill Tyler by one of the sons of Tyler's victims. So Peewee tries a few times to kill him by poisoning. But when that didn't work, Peewee got the son of the victims to send him in to smuggle him in prison. Some fucking C four explosive hidden in the heel of his shoe. Yeah, man. He gets some c four smuggled in. Peewee then rigs up a device in Tyna's cell using portable radio and wires, speaker wire that he'd savaged from various other devices. He tells Tyna that he's built him a device which he can use to communicate between cells. [00:13:44] Speaker B: Wow. [00:13:45] Speaker A: Tyna follows Gaskin's instructions to hold a speaker up to his ear. Peewee detonates it and kills him from the next cell using fucking explosive rigged to a radio. [00:13:57] Speaker B: Surprisingly smart, isn't it? [00:13:59] Speaker A: Isn't it? [00:14:01] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it feels easy to get caught doing, but in terms of the ingenuity of the machine, that's more than I was expecting. [00:14:09] Speaker A: Yes. At this point, he doesn't give a fuck about getting caught. He's on death row. He revels. Even as late as that, he's reveling in his killings. The guy he blew up with, C four, he said the last thing Tyna heard was me laughing. [00:14:24] Speaker B: Wow. [00:14:25] Speaker A: In it. [00:14:26] Speaker B: God damn, Peewee. [00:14:28] Speaker A: You know, I feel as though, Peewee, there's a fucking miniseries in this, right? [00:14:32] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. [00:14:33] Speaker A: Surely. [00:14:34] Speaker B: Yeah. How many did he kill total? Like, at least that we know about. [00:14:41] Speaker A: He claimed between 100 and 110. But he was only kind of convicted of ten counts of murder, plus some robberies, plus some assaults. [00:14:54] Speaker B: Right. [00:14:54] Speaker A: So 15 confirmed, but 110 claimed. [00:14:59] Speaker B: Wow. [00:15:00] Speaker A: Indeed. [00:15:01] Speaker B: I mean, 15 would be a lot. [00:15:02] Speaker A: In and of itself it would. But the guy clearly was a committed and vociferous murder enthusiast. [00:15:12] Speaker B: How do people get like that? Obviously he had a shitty upbringing, but a lot of people do. What is it that goes? I mean, I guess it's like psychopathy or something like that. Deep personality disorder. But where it comes to the point where you're just like, I don't even care. I'm obviously going to get arrested, going to get executed for this, but I just can't stop killing. [00:15:37] Speaker A: Yes. Oh, boy, here I go, killing again. Maybe it's a little bit of small man syndrome, a whole lot of sexual abuse, I don't know. But this guy just fucking loved it. But luckily for everybody else on the planet, he was executed on September 6, 1991 at 01:10 in the morning in the electric chair. Last words. I'll let my lawyers talk for me. I'm ready to go. [00:16:03] Speaker B: And that's the final truth. [00:16:06] Speaker A: Let me quote directly from my notes, if I may. [00:16:08] Speaker B: Yes, please do. [00:16:10] Speaker A: Fucking look at these nerds. Oh, miselsen. [00:16:13] Speaker B: I don't think anyone has ever said miselsen in such a horny way before. [00:16:17] Speaker A: The way I whispered the word sex cannibal routine. [00:16:20] Speaker B: Worst comes to worst, Mark, I'm willing to guillotine you for science. [00:16:24] Speaker A: Thank you. That's really, really sweet. It's cold outside, but my pancreas is talking to me. I'm going to leg it. [00:16:30] Speaker B: You know how I feel about that, Mark. [00:16:32] Speaker A: I think you feel great about it. I guess I'll just introduce the episode. Would you like me to do that? [00:16:39] Speaker B: Yeah, please do. I would love that. [00:16:41] Speaker A: Friends, it is our privilege and our joy and probably our duty, I think, to appear once again before you this week on another fucking banger of an episode of Jack of all Graves. We hope you're well. We hope you're comfortable. We hope they've got that thing you like at the shop. We hope you're well fed. We hope the weather isn't too nasty where you are. But more than anything else, we hope you're out there staying spooky. Corey, how have you been this week? [00:17:09] Speaker B: Spooky? No, not that spooky. I've been know. I can't complain. Right. [00:17:17] Speaker A: Good. [00:17:18] Speaker B: It's just like. It's a normal. Last week I made a friend. Oh, my God. Yeah, that's huge news. Like a real life. Listen, I have two friends in this area. Obviously, I have more friends than that total in my life, but, like, actual people who I could physically hang out with potentially on a regular basis in my vicinity. I have two friends, Anna and Kim. And I see them infrequently enough that every time I say one of their names, Keo goes, who? And I'm like, keo, I have two friends. It is one of those two people. But I want to say, like, six or eight months ago, I put out a call on the Facebook. Essentially, I was in this group on Facebook for people in their twenty s and thirty s who live in Montclair. And the vast majority of people in that group, like, 26, 27, and they're posts would be like, hey, I love shopping. I love going to clubs and all these things that I'm like, okay, I don't do that. My interests include staying at home. So I put out a post that was normal, right? I put out a post that was like, hey, listen, I'm a pretty specific type of person. I am 38 years old. I like to go to ghost concerts. I like wrestling. I like to go on walks. I like birds, things like that. I have ADHD. I am super sensory overwhelmed all the time. I wear earplugs when I go anywhere. If that appeals to anyone, hit me up. You can follow me on Instagram, and we could be friends. [00:18:54] Speaker A: My favorite bit of that was, I like birds. [00:18:59] Speaker B: Got to hit that one hard. I really got to drive it home. So, yeah, some people did friend me on things, but then it's like, the next step is actually hanging out with people, which I think is where a lot of us falter, especially over the age of 30. Like, being like, all right, now let's go do something. So there's this one gal who we'd been communicating in stories and things like that and have very similar leftist political views and often get into arguments with the same people in our local Facebook group and things like that. And she was like, hey, do you want to hang out IRl? And I was like, oh, cool. Yes. [00:19:38] Speaker A: It's a big jump, isn't? It's a big jump from tapity tap tap on the keyboard, making plans. [00:19:43] Speaker B: Is this what dating is like? [00:19:46] Speaker A: Yes. [00:19:46] Speaker B: This must be how it feels to date in this day and age. Like, oh, you meet someone on your phone and then you go somewhere and you hope they like you. And that's what we did. We went for a nice walk in a park, and I was a little weird. I kept getting distracted by birds and telling her what kind of bird they were and things like that. But then she wanted to hang out with me more. So it was a success. [00:20:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm really pleased to hear that, because. [00:20:19] Speaker B: Were you nervous for me? Did you think I was going to weird her out? [00:20:22] Speaker A: I was a little bit. And based on what you've just know, she's obviously a keeper. She's one to hang on to. But I've tried this. I've tried this on a few occasions since moving to Bista, and it just has never quite taken. I've had a few friend dates, some that Laura have set up, one or two. I joined a Facebook group of local metalheads. Right. [00:20:47] Speaker B: Oh, okay. That seems promising. [00:20:49] Speaker A: It did, didn't it? But I never quite made that leap to getting out from behind the screen and meeting these folks in real life. Never quite managed. I wanted to, but I never quite managed it. [00:21:01] Speaker B: Yeah, because it feels weird, like you're asking someone out. Right, exactly. Do you want to go on a date with me and hope that we get along in real life? [00:21:10] Speaker A: Yeah. What I've made peace with, I guess, is it isn't that I don't have friends. I do. I've got plenty of really fucking good friends. It's just they go to a different school, they're in a different. [00:21:26] Speaker B: Right, yeah, exactly. [00:21:30] Speaker A: So that does mean that I've got to put a little bit of extra work into seeing people and socializing. But when I do it, it matters. [00:21:38] Speaker B: Right. Like you did last week, you went and hung with the boys and all of that kind of stuff and it fucking wicked, right? Yeah. It means that I love when my friends come to visit me or when I go out to see them, and it's always like no time has passed. And obviously we have the Internet, so we can chat. We talk every single day, me and my know. But it is nice. Know, there are things. I invited Anna to go see a magician with me next month. I invited Kim to go see a horror movie screening with me. [00:22:18] Speaker A: What kind of. [00:22:21] Speaker B: Mean? I don't know. He does, like, illusions and stuff. [00:22:25] Speaker A: He's like close up kind of sleight of hand or. [00:22:28] Speaker B: No, like, bigger than that. His name is Justin Wilman. He has a Netflix show. And he does. Yeah, kind of. I mean, he does do, like, your close up magic and sleight of hand stuff and things like that. But he does a lot of big tricks that largely. Big lies. Yeah, that's what they are. And I quite enjoy them. And he's very handsome and very charismatic, so it's enjoyable to watch, but. Yeah. And Kim's going, I don't know if I've seen a movie with me, so it's good. [00:23:03] Speaker A: Last time I talked shit about magicians. I don't know if I mentioned this, but I've known a couple of magicians in my time. Right. A few friends of mine, or who were friends of mine at some other point in my life have taken up magic. Right, sure. And all of them, it's always been, I'm not looking down on this at all. It's just an observation. Each friend that I've known who've gone into magic has used it as almost a diversion away from massive kind of awkwardness and weirdness. [00:23:39] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think that's a good chunk of illusionist type people are actually, like the weird kid you knew in school. [00:23:49] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [00:23:51] Speaker B: Had. I definitely had a friend growing up named Jordan who was kind of the weird, awkward kid, and he became a magician, and it was like a kind of thing that he could insert himself into a conversation or whatever and be like, hey, can I do this trick for you? Or whatever, which I think that endears me to them as well, as long as they're not like sleaze bags, which a lot of magicians are as well. I think the thing is, I understand your dislike of magicians to an extent, but I also think I enjoy a magician who is essentially in the same realm as, like, a stand up comedian. They have to offer something else aside from simply being like, look at this trick I did. They should make me laugh. It should be fun to enjoy the personality of this person that I'm seeing on stage. So I put them in kind of the same realm. It's like a stand up comedian who also confuses me. So I enjoy that entire process. Like, the guy that I'm seeing, he does this one trick where he convinces someone they're invisible, and it's basically, like, it involves, like, it's staged. Like, other people around have to participate in this or whatever. And I find stuff like that just very entertaining to see. It's not always that he has to do a sleight of hand or something so much as how do you work with the things that people believe about the world and stuff like that to make them believe something impossible or stuff like that. [00:25:28] Speaker A: Yes. What movie are you seeing with Kim? [00:25:31] Speaker B: So there's an irish filmmaker named Paul Dwayne who, he's put out this folk horror, and I can't think of what the name of it is right now, but he's doing a screening at the Alamo draft house that he is actually doing, like, a Q a at. And we became, like, mutuals on blue sky or whatever. And I was like, I live near there. I'll go to that. So, yeah, it's gotten some really good reviews out of frightfest and stuff like that. So I'm pretty stoked on going to see that. I haven't been to a cool horror movie screening in a while. [00:26:05] Speaker A: Yeah, same as, you know full well I missed one. You know how I'm good at. I'm going to have to tell this fucking story. You know how I got my tooth fixed last week? Yeah, sure. [00:26:20] Speaker B: Yes. [00:26:21] Speaker A: So I also had an appointment on Wednesday. [00:26:24] Speaker B: I was like, oh, please tell this. [00:26:26] Speaker A: Story to get my eye fixed. Right? I've had this fucking irritating little, kind of pebble size, tiny little grit sized fucking cyst in my eyelid for two years now. And it's fucking winding me up and it just isn't healing. But hooray. Great day. Finally. Fantastic. It's time to go to the hospital, get it sorted. So I go to the hospital and I get to the fucking lady, and I'm checking in, and she kind of tapity tap taps away at a keyboard. Yeah, this has been canceled. Sorry, the doctor isn't here. This doctor isn't here today. Sorry, this has been canceled. You would have been sent a letter. Did you not get the letter? And I was like, no, I didn't get the letter. [00:27:07] Speaker B: The indignant text I got about this. [00:27:10] Speaker A: Yeah. And I was like, this is the third time this has been moved. Because it was. It was the third time. The third fucking time they've moved this appointment on me. I didn't get any letter. So I've come all this way for nothing. So, well, can't do anything about it, then I guess I'll fucking sulk on back to my car. So they give me a new letter for a new appointment in April. Sorry if this is mundane, but I feel I have to share this. I get home and I'm like, right, I'm going to put this fucking appointment in my calendar. There's no way I'm going to miss this. I have to put it in my car. So I put it in my calendar. You probably know where this is going to find that. It's already in there for that date, isn't it? Yeah. [00:27:51] Speaker B: Oh, my. [00:27:52] Speaker A: Done. I knew full well they'd moved the appointment on me, but I didn't delete the original calendar invite. Thus I've gone to another thing on the wrong day and managed to make myself look a right tip in the process. [00:28:08] Speaker B: I'm glad you owned this, though. You could have fully kept this to yourself after we had shared a moment of rage about this. A letter in 20 and 24. Who sends a letter? And then you owned up later on, like I paid for parking. [00:28:24] Speaker A: I took a time out of work. And I am the dickhead. [00:28:30] Speaker B: Everyone, once again, we're all the dickheads sometimes. [00:28:35] Speaker A: That I'm the fool again. I thought my eye pain had come to an end soon. I know. Turns out they told me it's a little something for you there. Little summon. [00:28:52] Speaker B: Good. I liked that a lot. [00:28:53] Speaker A: Musical and deluded. And I enjoy that. Right. Should we get to it then? [00:28:57] Speaker B: We should get to it. We've got something very important to tell everyone today, something that we've been sitting on for so long, my insides have been bubbling. I've wanted nothing more than to share this. [00:29:10] Speaker A: Mark. [00:29:10] Speaker B: What's happening? [00:29:12] Speaker A: All right, so at fucking last, at long goddamn last, this September, my ass is fucking jumping on a plane coming to New York. [00:29:28] Speaker B: That's right. [00:29:30] Speaker A: For the fucking world's first ever irl joag fucking meet space meetup. How awesome is that? [00:29:38] Speaker B: The Jo ag. And the fuck is that? [00:29:40] Speaker A: Yes, indeed. A collab, a fucking podcast sibling fucking crossover event. And I'm actually going to be there. I'm actually going to be there in New goddamn York along with just a bunch of like minded fucking legends. And it's going to be amazing. [00:30:00] Speaker B: Fucking right. Four years. Four years in the making. This said, you know, in years past, this is definitely going to be the year. This will be the year that Marco makes it to America. But this actually is. The tickets have been purchased the last weekend in September. Save the date. Start saving up your pennies and whatnot. To come here to hang out with us, to hang out with Hollywood Steve of dead and lovely, to hang out with Anna of legacy of brutality and all of our northeastern Joaag and lovely homies who can make their way this way. It's going to be rad. We're going to give you. Listen, if you were to come to New York City, you would probably pay for someone to take you on a tour, but you're going to come here, do that for you for free. [00:30:57] Speaker A: What kinds of things are we going to be touring around, Corey? We're going to be looking like movie locations. [00:31:01] Speaker B: Yeah, we're going to see some movie locations. We're going to maybe see a very famous firehouse that happens to be in Manhattan. [00:31:10] Speaker A: That's a bucket list. Always, always been absolutely fucking desperate to go check out the Ghostbusters firehouse. So that's something I'm actually going to do. And I can't believe it. [00:31:19] Speaker B: Yes, we're going to do that together. We're all going to have this experience together. We're going to see some other dark been, you know, really investigating some of the seedy underbelly of Manhattan to take people through. We're going to see the city lights. We're going to see Lady Liberty. We're going to do the whole freaking deal here in New York, and you're going to do it for free. [00:31:40] Speaker A: I shouldn't be as excited about this as I am, but I'm also really pleased that it's going to be at the fucking apex of fucking Trump. Biden two. [00:31:49] Speaker B: Oh, God. Yeah. [00:31:51] Speaker A: If you were to predict, is the city going to be nuts around then? [00:31:56] Speaker B: I mean, listen, you're not on the day to day walking around. You're probably not going to see much, but I am very excited for you to be able know Mark is going to come stay in our house during this whole thing. We can watch some TV and you can see the unhinged ads that circulate during this time of year. Not just the Trump Biden stuff, which is crazy in and of itself, but also like the New York state things. Oh, man. You have not lived until you've seen a Long island political ad because they're the most unhinged thing you have ever seen in your life. Like, the Democrats are basically Trump in Long island and, oh, man, it's really something. So I am very stoked for you to get to see that. Even though, dear God, our country is going to hell. It'll be fun to watch you experience it. [00:32:51] Speaker A: Oh, my God, I can't wait. I think he's going to take me to a shooting range, too. Yeah. [00:32:54] Speaker B: Oh, if you want to. Absolutely. I did offer. [00:32:59] Speaker A: Absolutely just for any avoidance of doubt. I absolutely do want that to happen. Thanks. [00:33:03] Speaker B: There we go. We'll make a video. Mark goes to the shooting. Know that'll be some joag content to come out of to. It's going to be so much fun, friends. So, dude, save the date for the last weekend of September to come here. We're going to do a backyard movie night at my house. We're going to go to the city, hang out together. Just if you've been looking for a reason to go to New York City. [00:33:31] Speaker A: Yes. [00:33:32] Speaker B: Here it is. [00:33:33] Speaker A: Meet our dear September the 26th until the 30th. [00:33:37] Speaker B: Well, that's when you're here. It'll be the 27th, 7th and 20. Eigth will be our meet up with us and the dead and lovelies. Yeah, it's going to be such a good time. [00:33:50] Speaker A: It is. And I would absolutely love to meet as many of you as possible. I really would. [00:33:54] Speaker B: Yeah. You have no idea how much we have been talking for the past couple months about this. And Mark's texts about how excited he is to meet everyone have been consistent and enthusiastic. So very stoked on that. And you're planning to, of course, naturally prepare by watching a lot of. [00:34:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm wide open to guidance on that. By the way, if there are any quintessential. They don't even have to be horrors, really any kind of just seminal movies where the city of New York is a character informs the movie. [00:34:32] Speaker B: I want you to watch that insane Robert Pattinson one, the rom.com. The September 11 rom.com. [00:34:41] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, sure. [00:34:43] Speaker B: I just feel like I want to hear your take on that absolutely insane film. [00:34:49] Speaker A: Yeah, let's get a playlist together because. Right. I know that you know this, but I've been to New York once before. But I was 16. Right. [00:35:01] Speaker B: It's almost 30 years ago. [00:35:03] Speaker A: I know, man. It's a long time. And because my entire group was chaperoned because we were young, right. I didn't really get any experience of in and around New York. I saw it all through bus windows and so on, but no word of a lie. My abiding memory of that trip was that it just. It fucking looked and felt exactly like I wanted it to. [00:35:30] Speaker B: Yes, 100%. [00:35:33] Speaker A: You don't get any sense of fakery or chicanery from the movies at all. It was like every fucking story I'd ever seen about the place was real. But now I get to do that as a big old grown ass adult, and I can get in just way more trouble. [00:35:48] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. You couldn't at age 16 even if you wanted to buy weed from a van on the street, like you can. [00:35:56] Speaker A: Now do all that. [00:35:59] Speaker B: Yeah, it's going to be a good time. [00:36:01] Speaker A: I'm going to try and steal a gun. A cop's gun. That's something that you got to do, haven't you? [00:36:05] Speaker B: To rite a passage? [00:36:06] Speaker A: Yeah, everybody does. Yes. Oh, God. Yeah. Just talking about it makes me fucking hype as shit. So I can't wait. [00:36:17] Speaker B: Yeah, we're spending the next six months planning and planning and planning. So this will be super fun. Yeah, we're just going to have a really good time with all of our homies that we have cultivated over these years on this podcast and in the scream and chat with dead and lovely and all that kind of stuff. So if you are a northeasterner. Or like I said, you've just been looking for a reason to come to New York City. Let's do it. Let's have a good time. We'll obviously find ways to keep you posted on plans and stuff like that. I'm not sure how we'll come up with some sort of way to arrange that so that people can make some sort of find out what's. Yeah. So that everyone can find out what's happening with that, and it'll be a blast. So the last weekend of September, put it in your calendar, ask your boss. [00:37:01] Speaker A: For the time off if you can't make it or don't want to make it, but you've got kind of wrecks if you've got must do stuff that maybe is off the beaten track, stuff that maybe because I'm just so wide open to anything. So, yeah, if you have any fucking musts, pass them our way, please. [00:37:21] Speaker B: Absolutely. So stoked on this. [00:37:23] Speaker A: Huge. [00:37:24] Speaker B: Told you it was huge. Yeah, it's so good to finally told. [00:37:28] Speaker A: You it was huge. [00:37:29] Speaker B: Get that out because you've been over. [00:37:30] Speaker A: Here how many times during the tenure of Joag? Three. [00:37:33] Speaker B: Three or four times. Yeah, I've been there for two cons. I stayed there through April, and I was there in August of one year. So I've been there four times over the course of this podcast. [00:37:45] Speaker A: Very much my turn then. Yeah. [00:37:47] Speaker B: Yes, it is definitely your turn to be the one to come. But of course, as is our dynamic and things like that, I basically forced all of this on you. You're like, oh, maybe it's time to come over here. And I'm like, here's the flights. This is when you're going to come. Here's when the weather is going to be okay. [00:38:05] Speaker A: Yes, well, we've made it happen. [00:38:07] Speaker B: We've made it happen. So, yeah, mark it down. Get yourself ready for an awesome time here. [00:38:15] Speaker A: As I've said, the very week after that is the half marathon that I'm training for. So maybe a run somewhere. I don't know. [00:38:25] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, people, I'll need to train. [00:38:29] Speaker A: I mean, I'll need to do something. [00:38:30] Speaker B: That mean there's plenty of places you can run and things like Central Park. Central Park. Central park. Run with Mark. I will clap for you from the side. [00:38:46] Speaker A: Because that's plausible, isn't it? I. That could do. [00:38:49] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. That's a thing you can do because it's New York. [00:38:57] Speaker A: Jungle welcoming Marco. There's nothing he can't do. Stealing a cop's gun while blazed on weed from a vendor right there on the sidewalk. Let's hear it for Marco. That's what I want you to sing. [00:39:22] Speaker B: Okay. [00:39:23] Speaker A: When I get. [00:39:26] Speaker B: Beautiful, we will remind you. We'll get things together. We'll plan, we'll convene with the dead and lovely folks, and we're going to have a great time. [00:39:37] Speaker A: Yep. On a personal note, I cannot wait to give Steve the fucking biggest, sweatiest, hairiest fucking who suit man hug. [00:39:49] Speaker B: That is going to be a very manly, manly. [00:39:52] Speaker A: You're in your thick tube, sir. You're fucking getting it from all angles. [00:39:59] Speaker B: Oh, boy. It's going to be great. Okay. There was a question I was going to ask you, but you know what? I'm going to save it, because we've been talking a lot already. So I think because we got a lot of movies to discuss this week. [00:40:21] Speaker A: I'll make it quick. Go on. [00:40:22] Speaker B: Okay. Well, it's related to the movies. And my question is, Mark, why won't you watch old movies with me? [00:40:31] Speaker A: Okay, that's interesting. Well, long answer. Short. But I have done loads of times old movies. Well, what's old? I mean, it's 2024. [00:40:43] Speaker B: Well, okay. I mean, as in classic. Like, for example, I wasn't really suggesting it, but the other day we were trying to figure out what movie we were going to watch, and I sent a screenshot of Peeping Tom from 1960. The reason I sent that screenshot is because the murderer in Peeping Tom is named Mark Lewis. [00:41:05] Speaker A: Spelt properly as well. Spelt literally my name. [00:41:08] Speaker B: Literally your name. But you thought I was sending it as a recommendation of a movie we should watch. And you're like, well, that's not the vibe. And then I was like, yeah, what is the vibe? And you were like, well, I don't know, but nothing that's from, like, the 40s. [00:41:22] Speaker A: That's exactly what I said. [00:41:24] Speaker B: Yes. And I was like, okay, but on multiple occasions, I have suggested something a little more classic like that. And you're like, nah, no, we're not doing that. What's the. [00:41:37] Speaker A: Right. Listen, I can give you an abridged version of this. I do watch old movies. I enjoy old movies, as you know. I mean, I watched twelve angry men a couple of weeks ago. I do. I love an old movie, but I kind of prefer watching those alone for some reason. And I can't put my finger on why, because when I'm watching an old film, I'm paying more attention to it. I'm really dialed into looking at what's going on on that screen. When I watch an old air quotes movie, I'm more interested in what they can achieve without the crutches and the trappings of contemporary filmmaking. [00:42:16] Speaker B: Right. [00:42:18] Speaker A: And you and I, we like to kind of goof off and comment on the film as we go and shoot text back and forth. And that, to me, would detract from the dialogue between me and the picture. [00:42:30] Speaker B: Okay, so it's not necessarily like you just aren't interested in old horror movies. [00:42:35] Speaker A: Absolutely not. No. [00:42:37] Speaker B: It's just you don't want any distractions during them. [00:42:40] Speaker A: Yes. When I'm watching a kind of a pre, let's say pre 1970 519 80 film, I find that I pay a lot more attention to the language of that film because I'm very curious to see what they can achieve without modern conveniences. [00:43:03] Speaker B: Yeah, and you often have to. Anyway, I did end up watching Thieeping Tom the other day. [00:43:08] Speaker A: It was good. [00:43:08] Speaker B: And yeah, it's great, but it's not the kind of movie that you can half ass. I think we could text back and forth during it, whatever, and it wouldn't be like the worst thing in the world. But certainly it's not the kind of thing you can scroll your phone and watch. I think a lot of that stuff because it isn't working with the same kinds of things that you can do now. They couldn't show gore in something, their limits, especially with Hayes code stuff and all that. Although peeping Tom was interesting. I'm very curious about this movie because it's later Hayes code. People were already starting to get away from that stuff, but they managed to. There's like nudity in it. There's a fair amount of on posters and stuff like that. There's lots of boobs. You do see an actual woman's breasts in this. I'm like, how did they pull this off in 1960? So I'm interested in sort of the background of that movie. But yeah, a lot of the older films because they can't lean on the same kinds of things that they do here, is they don't lend themselves to you multitasking particularly. Okay, that's interesting. [00:44:20] Speaker A: I hope that was a fulsome and satisfactory answer. [00:44:23] Speaker B: Yeah, that doesn't mean I won't still occasionally try, but I do get it. I think that there are some that would be very fun, especially like old ghost movies. I think those lend themselves to being watched with people in sort of fun ways as opposed to the more psychological ones where you really have to lean into it. Did we watch 13 ghosts? Like the old 13 ghosts. [00:44:49] Speaker A: No, we just watched the. Yes. [00:44:53] Speaker B: It must have been with scream and chat. I feel like I watched that in a posse at some point. That we watched the older, or maybe they just reviewed it. But that would be a fun group. Watch the old rudimentary three d thirteen ghost, which was a lot of fun. Nice. Also, House of Wax I talked about recently, another rudimentary 3D movie is very fun and totally good for groups, I think, as well. Okay. I feel good about that. Let's talk about what we watched. [00:45:23] Speaker A: Good. And I made good on last week's promise to fucking dial it up on the movies this week because we've got. [00:45:30] Speaker B: You did get through. [00:45:32] Speaker A: Plenty to get through. Let me see. I'll kick off. In that case, I'll kick off with. Let me see. The ruins. The ruins, yes. [00:45:42] Speaker B: Which we watched together. Oh, secret banger. [00:45:48] Speaker A: Secret banger. So where are we? We're in 2008. [00:45:52] Speaker B: Yes. [00:45:54] Speaker A: I realized after we watched. It's on Netflix. It's on our Netflix. A group of kind of unlikable american kids are in Mexico on holiday or vacation, and for some plot reason, they end up at a mayan temple where things go really badly awry. Now, this film was a gamble. [00:46:24] Speaker B: It was, yes. [00:46:25] Speaker A: Right. Because on paper, it doesn't have much to recommend it. The reviews are all quite tepid. I was dragged in by a lot of comments on Reddit calling it just exactly that. A secret banger. A kind of an unsung genre fucking page turner. And it really is. [00:46:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:50] Speaker A: Not to want to give it away. [00:46:51] Speaker B: But do, because it's cleverer than you think it's going to be. [00:46:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Do, please. This is Marco's movie of the week. [00:46:59] Speaker B: Right. [00:47:00] Speaker A: Which is a thing, definitely. If you're going to watch one movie that we talk about this week, please watch the ruins. [00:47:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:07] Speaker A: Because I reckon you'll be very pleasantly surprised with just how fucking solid a movie this is. Very pleasingly gory. [00:47:17] Speaker B: Yes. Oh, boy. Yeah. There's some real, like, almost closing my eyes moments in that movie. [00:47:24] Speaker A: It has both the meat and the juice. Just really characters who you don't really like or feel any empathy towards, but they do get killed. [00:47:34] Speaker B: Yeah. I think one of the things about this, and I don't think it's really giving anything away to say this, is that at the beginning of this, I said to mark, like, this might be kind of racist, and instead it turns out to be like a critique of white privilege, which you don't really see. You don't think that's going to happen in a movie from 2008. Not at all what you're expecting from a standard horror movie from that time. [00:48:05] Speaker A: Just when you think it's rolling out, the kind of angry natives kind of trope. Yeah, it isn't that at all. [00:48:13] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. [00:48:15] Speaker A: Watch the ruins. You'll have a lot of fun. Yeah, I would have been in even without the pleasing gore. But there is lots of really pleasing gore in it, which. That's a winner. [00:48:27] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. [00:48:28] Speaker A: The ruins. [00:48:30] Speaker B: The ruins. [00:48:31] Speaker A: Let me see. All right. Should we talk about fade to black? [00:48:36] Speaker B: Yeah, why not? Let's just keep talking about the ones that we watched together. Fade to black was the other one. [00:48:40] Speaker A: Beautiful? Fade to black. So, see, don't tell me. I don't watch old movies. This was from 1980. [00:48:45] Speaker B: That's not what I mean by old movies. Because here's what I. [00:48:49] Speaker A: Prior to our lifetime. [00:48:50] Speaker B: Is that right? I'm thinking, like, an old movie. I'm thinking classic. When we were kids, we would have called it an old movie as opposed to like, well, we're old, so it's an old movie. [00:49:02] Speaker A: Yeah, I see. [00:49:04] Speaker B: So, yes, fade to black, 1980. [00:49:06] Speaker A: What made you suggest this one? Because it was much like anguish. It was one I'd never even heard of. [00:49:11] Speaker B: I have been wanting to watch it for a while. I tend to. Basically, my letterboxed watch list is made up mostly of things. I see other people log and go, that sounds interesting, as well as just searching lists. And if I search a slasher list or whatever, and I'm like, that sounds interesting. I'll add it to my watch list. So it's one of those ones that's been on my watch list probably for like, two years. And I constantly go, oh, I should watch that. And it's the story of this guy who has an extremely parasocial relationship with the stars of the silver screen. Now, we would read this as, like a neurodivergent, like an autistic obsession with cinema facts, things like that. And so he's a little bit of a pariah amongst the people that know him. [00:50:08] Speaker A: Lives alone with his wheelchair bound aunt. [00:50:12] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. Which has, like, a weird, incestuous tone. [00:50:16] Speaker A: To that relationship at a strange kind of abusive relationship there. Kid works in a film factory, like a Kodak processing plant, delivering reels of celluloid. Sorry. To various studios in the area. And this is a kid who is obsessed with the minutiae of movies, the trivia, the statistics, characters names, actors names. And it marks him out as a loner, an Odball, a weirdo. And Mickey Rourke. [00:50:52] Speaker B: And Mickey Rourke with his original. [00:50:55] Speaker A: Yes, yes. Mickey Rourke in his first incarnation as a recognizable human being. Yes. But as you can imagine, this parasocial relationship with film and his obsession with blondes who look like Marilyn Monroe leads him to strange, dark, stabby places. [00:51:17] Speaker B: Yes, indeed. [00:51:23] Speaker A: On face value, that description might have sold it short. Right. But this is actually a really cool and quite artsy. More artsy than you might think. Movie uses stock footage and clips from other movies. How the fuck did they get away with that? [00:51:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know. I'm not entirely sure how that worked out. I also really love that it's very grounded in the real world, even though he is not. And so there's a movie poster for Halloween in the background. There's like a Newsweek cover that I was able to Google and find that had, like, Meryl Streep on the front of know, basically all of the scenery, everything is legit of the time, which you don't see in stuff often. It's like they live in a world that has its own movies. Has its own is like. I think that really adds to this feeling with this movie of how disconnected from reality he is that this is our. [00:52:22] Speaker A: In modern parlance, you'd call them Easter eggs. But the film is full of. Yeah, absolutely. Full of references to Hollywood of the time. And when I say, how did they get away with it? I mean, the movie that he's particularly obsessed with at any given moment, they actually play clips of. And I can't work out how they got away with that. [00:52:41] Speaker B: Yeah, I can't imagine it had the budget to be paying for this stuff. So I don't know how they managed to pull this off, except maybe flying under the radar, not having a wide release. [00:52:53] Speaker A: As our guy goes further and further off the deep end, he costumes himself in clothes from various movies and commits murders themed around the movies that he's so lost in. And it's a good time. It's a fantastic good time. [00:53:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Fade to black. Would recommend. Yeah, it's a good time. You're right. [00:53:13] Speaker A: Yes. Sure is. Right now. You watched all of Dune. [00:53:19] Speaker B: I went Dune crazy this past week. It was an interesting journey. So what happened was I asked on blue Sky, I was like, do I need to remember anything from Dune to see Dune two? And people are like, yeah, probably. So I rewatched Dune, and like I said last week, rewatched. [00:53:40] Speaker A: So you had seen rewatched? [00:53:41] Speaker B: Yeah, I'd seen it before. Yeah, I talked about it last week, Mark. And I had said about it that I was like, it's not, like, my favorite thing in the world, but I was really blown away by the sound in it. And obviously it's a big picture. So I said I slept through, like, 30 minutes of it when I saw it in theater. This time when I watched it, I spaced out the exact same 30 minutes of it. Okay. Apparently, I'm just not meant to know what's going on in this part of the movie, but it doesn't seem to make a difference one way or another. And so, yeah, I rewatched that, went and saw Dune two afterwards, which I did not like, and I know you did. And here I'm not going to. [00:54:19] Speaker A: I fucking knew that was going to cut. [00:54:21] Speaker B: I knew that was the thing. Here's what I'm going to say about Dune two is that this is very much not for me. So that's not the same thing as saying, this is a bad movie. Right. This is not for me. And I think it has to do with Vilnuv's angle on making films. Right. So, famously, one of the things that he said about his filmmaking is he doesn't think that dialogue is important in movies. He said, that's for TV and stage. And no one remembers lines from movies. They only remember what they saw. I am the opposite person. [00:54:58] Speaker A: That categorically is untrue. [00:55:00] Speaker B: Categorically untrue. In fact, watch the OG Dune and you will know so many lines from that movie. But that's his take. Right? And that's what the film is like. So while I was watching the movie, everything that happened, I kept just having questions about. I was like, I need one line of dialogue to explain this to me. One line. And I would understand what's happening here, but I don't know why this is happening. I don't know how much time has passed. I don't know why this person made this decision. I don't know why this is important. [00:55:32] Speaker A: Whoever said, you don't need to have seen the first one is full of shit. Because. [00:55:37] Speaker B: No. No one said that. They said, you do need to see it. [00:55:39] Speaker A: Okay, good. Because it doesn't catch you up at all. There's no. Previously on Dune. [00:55:44] Speaker B: Here's the thing. Yeah. What it kind of retroactively did for me is make me, like, the first dune less. Because I felt like the first dune wasted time where it should have been setting up Dune two for me. And then Dune two introduces all these characters and things like that and doesn't give me much about them. And so I'm trying to piece it together and it kind of frames this as a twist towards the end of it or whatever, but the whole movie, I just wanted someone to explain to me what was happening. I don't know. Why is he riding a sandworm? This was one of the things that frustrated me in Dune two, when, of course, the famous, like, he rides the worm scene. What they say is, oh, he's been trained. He can do it. I'm like, okay. But I haven't. Explain to me why he's doing that and what are the mechanics? And this seems impractical because a worm can dive under the sand. So how do you not get drowned by the worm? Just give me a sentence to explain this or show me a training montage or something. And the whole movie, it was just little things like that where I was like, I don't know what's happening because you didn't give me anything to explain it. And so then I went and watched the original dune, the David Lynch Dune. Oh, wow. And, yeah, when I say I watched all the dunes, I watched all. [00:57:06] Speaker A: You really did? Wow. [00:57:08] Speaker B: I went and watched the original David Lynch Dune, and now I have not read the book. Have you read the book or books? [00:57:14] Speaker A: I have read the first two. I've read the first two. And children of Dune, I think it is. [00:57:20] Speaker B: So obviously, I have not read any of these. So I know things are changed in the original dune, and I have no opinion about that because I have not read it. So there's nothing for me to be mad about that's misrepresented in the original or anything like that. But the original, pretty much every question I had in Dune two is explained in a sentence in the original dune. And I was like, I don't have any of these questions anymore. [00:57:47] Speaker A: On the other hand, David Lynch's Dune has a lot of. Just exposition, has a lot of talking. [00:57:54] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:57:54] Speaker A: Telling you everything. [00:57:55] Speaker B: Yeah, the first ten minutes of it is literally just explaining the story. And I think maybe this is just a dune problem in general. I know there was a series as well, which I did not watch, that maybe you simply can't tell the story in a movie. And that's the issue here. But I needed that exposition to tell me all of this stuff so that I wasn't like, I can't just watch it and accept that this makes sense in the new dunes. I didn't even understand what the significance of the spice was. And then the first one, it's like, oh, it is like the center of this whole thing. And you're seeing spice production and you're seeing why this is at the center of all of the battles that they're having and all this kind of stuff. And Dune two, it's not really mentioned. There's one line in it where it's like something about the spice production and then it's never mentioned again. To me, that was my issue with Dune, too, was like, it's big. It's pretty. I'm not going to deny this is an accomplishment of a film, but I was so frustrated that I didn't know what was going on. And I don't think that that necessarily is, like, an issue for everyone. So that's why I'm like, it's not a bad movie, but I think what I'm looking for, and I don't care about anyone because of this. So what I'm looking for in a movie, it didn't do that. [00:59:20] Speaker A: Okay. [00:59:21] Speaker B: The other end of this, Mark. [00:59:23] Speaker A: Yeah. See, I felt as though it explained things pretty well. Right. [00:59:29] Speaker B: You've read the books, though. [00:59:31] Speaker A: Yeah, but even if I hadn't, I mean, we know from the first film that the Fremen are able to write sandworms about. And we see Paul doing it for the first time. We see him being set up. We see everybody kind know, waiting with breath to see if he's going to manage. Just. It's not like he suddenly, just out of nowhere, hops on a sandworm. We see him fucking learning to do it. [00:59:53] Speaker B: We don't see him learn to do it. They say he's been trained to do it. [00:59:59] Speaker A: The time is his first ever time of doing it. [01:00:01] Speaker B: But what they say in that scene is, oh, he's been trained. When? Who did this? When did he learn this? And again, I don't understand the mechanics of it. And so to me, I'm like, this seems impractical. This thing could kill you. Where, like in the original dune, they explain how you keep from the worm bringing you underground, what you're gripping onto there, onto the worms. The whole process is explained in that movie in a sentence. [01:00:34] Speaker A: And it's probably worth pointing out at this point that not only I've read the first couple of Dune books, and I also extensively played the PC game of Dune, which was like a kind of a command and conquer esque, base building, strategy kind of game. [01:00:50] Speaker B: Right? [01:00:51] Speaker A: And I played that extensively. [01:00:53] Speaker B: I did see that that exists. Someone made a YouTube video about it, but I hadn't watched it yet. [01:00:57] Speaker A: Super fun. It's like command and conquer. Like before. Command and conquer. Really good shit. Nice. So I get it a little bit more I was going into it with a little bit more context. [01:01:09] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. I feel like you do better if you kind of know what's going on or if you're just not like me and hung up on details, because, you know, I do get hung up on details and things. [01:01:21] Speaker A: Yeah. I will warrant. Yes. That in the space between scenes, a lot of shit did seem to happen that you were just supposed to go, all right, cool. [01:01:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. I do not know how long, what amount of time transpired between any two scenes in this movie. [01:01:38] Speaker A: Yes. I'm sure all that is in there. But however, what villain of has also famously said is he makes his movies for one person, and that's him. [01:01:48] Speaker B: Right? Yeah, exactly. There's nothing about the way this movie was made is accidental. This is an intentional movie. This is the movie he wanted to make. [01:01:57] Speaker A: Yeah. The bits I loved about it were many and fucking plenty. I thought. My good friend of yours, Timothy Chalamet, I thought he in Dune two is a completely different fucking character from Dune one, just as he had to be in Dune one, he spends most of his time as this faye, kind of morkish, kind of weakling fucking fop of a prince. Whereas by the end of Dune two, he's a double hard, fucking spice saturated, worm writing bastard. You know what I mean? [01:02:31] Speaker B: I think I don't like Timothy Chalamet. [01:02:33] Speaker A: I get that. No, I know. And nor do I mean, I. Yeah. [01:02:36] Speaker B: I didn't realize it until this movie. Well, especially. And then watching Kyle McLaughlin in the original, and I was like, Kyle McLaughlin has more charisma and acting talent in his pinky finger than Timothy Chalamet has in his whole body. [01:02:48] Speaker A: That's another discussion. I don't disagree. [01:02:51] Speaker B: But, yeah, no, I see what you mean about the. [01:02:53] Speaker A: His journey was beautifully performed. I will never not love seeing. [01:03:06] Speaker B: This is another thing for me, is like. And it's a nitpick, but it's just like everybody using their own voices, whether it's Josh Brolin or who's Duncan Idaho? [01:03:19] Speaker A: Aquaman. [01:03:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Jason Momoa, Christopher Walken. It's Zendaya and Timothy Chalamet. I'm like, this is, like, very. It took me out of it a little bit, and I get why they did know. Everybody doesn't always have to be, like, talking in that put on british accent that they use in most movies, but it was like, a little like all these people are in different movies. [01:03:44] Speaker A: Well, I don't know. I rationalize that by thinking they're all from massively different fucking parts of the. [01:03:51] Speaker B: Galaxy that happened to be 2024 California. [01:03:55] Speaker A: Well, yeah, but look, I shocked myself, right, because I thought, going to that movie at 20 to eight, I thought, I haven't got a fucking dog in Hell's chance of sticking through this film. [01:04:06] Speaker B: I didn't think you were going to make it either. I thought you'd like this movie, but I didn't think you'd stay awake through it. [01:04:10] Speaker A: My eyelids nearly drooped a single time. I was awake and alert throughout the entire thing. And look, I mean, this. This sounds ridiculous, but I didn't even piss during that entire film. I didn't leave my. Know. Yeah, I know. And I had a coffee on the go as well. I didn't even piss one time. I love the technology. I love the fucking design. I think it's a banger. And it's actually turned me around on Denny Villeneuve. I was lukewarm on him. A lot of his fucking films bored the shit out of me. His blade runner was tedious as fuck. [01:04:41] Speaker B: That was another one I slept through a good chunk of which I think I have the same feeling about that in the first dune where I don't hate it, I just also didn't need to be awake for it to really get it. [01:04:56] Speaker A: No, I'm going to revisit judiciously, I'm going to revisit one or two of his movies, I think. [01:05:01] Speaker B: Because he did arrival too, right? [01:05:04] Speaker A: Yes, he did. Which is excellent. [01:05:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Arrival is great, for sure. [01:05:08] Speaker A: Yeah. So he's back in the cool books, the ruins, dune two. Right. I'm going to just breeze past the house at the end of the street. Fucking rubbish. Holy moly. What a bad film. [01:05:19] Speaker B: So sad. Poor Jayla. [01:05:22] Speaker A: I picked this. I was visiting my mother last weekend for Valentine's Day. Valentine's Day. The other one. Mother's day. Paging Dr. Freud. And as we do, we get a takeaway, watch a movie. I picked the house at the end of the street and it's fucking awful. Just awful, right? This was a movie from 2012, right? [01:05:44] Speaker B: Wow, man. [01:05:44] Speaker A: Have a little think for me, if you don't mind, Corrigan. What was connectivity and electronics and the Internet like in 2012? [01:05:55] Speaker B: Who remembers that far back? [01:06:00] Speaker A: This is a film which seems to have just discovered the Internet, right? [01:06:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:07] Speaker A: There's one fucking hell stuck out like a sore thumb. One little sequence where. So Jennifer Lawrence is in a band, right? She's in a band, she's a singer in a band and she's come to this new school and she talks to some guy and the guy says, oh, yeah, I know that about you. She goes, how do you know? He goes, I googled you. Nothing safe these days, right? And then she goes, so can I hear some of your stuff? And he goes, yeah, here you go. And he hands her a fucking data stick. Hands her a fucking USB drive. Yeah, here you go. This is what kids are all going to be using now. Very strange, very anachronistic. [01:06:43] Speaker B: I don't know, I guess, I don't know what you would have done at that time, though. You would have a soundcloud maybe. [01:06:51] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. I would have fucking texted you a link or something. I sure as shit wouldn't have fucking given you a pen drive. No, just terrible. I don't even want to talk about it. Awful. [01:07:03] Speaker B: Fair enough. [01:07:05] Speaker A: Watch the ruins. Don't watch, let me see. I've started the New York movie. Fucking watching already. I sat, man, you know how much I adore watching movies that I like with my kids. Fucking great. So I thought they could handle Cloverfield and I was bang on. [01:07:23] Speaker B: Nice. [01:07:24] Speaker A: Well, please tell me you like Cloverfield. [01:07:27] Speaker B: Who are you looking at? [01:07:31] Speaker A: I'm not, I'm talking to you. I'm imagining you're on the sofa next to. [01:07:34] Speaker B: Okay, just. All right, cool. I have only watched part of Cloverfield because it made me very dizzy. So I don't know whether I like Cloverfield or not. I love ten Cloverfield Lane, but I. [01:07:48] Speaker A: Feel is great as fuck, right? It is absolutely brilliant. It's funny, it is exciting, it's scary, it's exhilarating, it's a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant found footage movie. And it's a New York movie. It is, yes. Also very cool. Something I hadn't really noticed last couple of times I've seen know, it's one of those films you watch like once a decade. So you know the conceit, there's a big gribli attacking New York and a bunch of kids are having a going away party for one of them at the time the Gribli hits. And one of the guys has a camera and they document the entire thing with a video camera, right? [01:08:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:08:27] Speaker A: The character, the guy who holds the camera is called HUd. And I think that's really subtle and funny. [01:08:36] Speaker B: HUD. [01:08:37] Speaker A: HUD stands for HEADS up DISPLAY. [01:08:40] Speaker B: OH, NICE. Okay. [01:08:44] Speaker A: You know, so when you're playing a video game and you've got the target on the screen or whatever, that's your Hud. The guy that we're seeing the film through his eyes, his name is hud. And I thought that was really funny, nice, smart. [01:08:55] Speaker B: I would not have caught that. That's good. [01:08:56] Speaker A: But it's got a CRACKING GRIBBLY. It's got a really funny bit where a woman explodes. Just SUCH FUN. [01:09:01] Speaker B: You should show them ten Cloverfield lane next. [01:09:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's a little darker, isn't it? [01:09:06] Speaker B: It is darker. I don't think it's like kids couldn't watch it, though. Like, if they've seen that, if Pete's seen final destination, things like that. I don't think it's any DARKER. [01:09:18] Speaker A: They've seen prey, they've seen diehard one, two and three. And I said to Pete, actually, as we were watching Cloverfield, just so you know, kiddo, over the next year or so, I'm going to be gently transitioning you into horror, just so you know. [01:09:31] Speaker B: And he's like, yeah, okay, dad, your time has come. [01:09:33] Speaker A: Yes. He knows. It's upon him. [01:09:36] Speaker B: Yeah, you should do ten Cloverfield Lane since it's fresh, the whole thing. That's a fucking great movie. [01:09:42] Speaker A: It is. It really is. Speaking of fucking great movies. Poor things. [01:09:46] Speaker B: Nice. [01:09:47] Speaker A: Terrific. [01:09:49] Speaker B: Isn't Mark Ruffalo incredible in that? [01:09:52] Speaker A: I could have done without seeing quite as much of his hairy ass. [01:09:55] Speaker B: Okay, if I'm honest, this is hilarious, because I legitimately forgot that that was even a thing. But Keo, when this movie came up yesterday, also said the same thing. You see a lot of Mark Ruffalo's ass in this. And I was like, you? [01:10:08] Speaker A: Yeah, see, I don't know if that came across last week when you were talking about poor things, but I didn't really know anything about it going. Which I'm pleased. For the first third, I was thinking, right, this is going to piss me off. I'm going to have to turn this. [01:10:23] Speaker B: Off, because quite opposite reactions. [01:10:26] Speaker A: Yeah, we did, didn't we? We really did. But I thought the affectations of the filming were a little bit too much. The fact it's all through a fucking lens upon itself. Yes, it does. It will not be denied. But it won me over. You cannot. Emma Frost earned that fucking Oscar. She was fantastic. [01:10:46] Speaker B: Not Emma Frost. [01:10:47] Speaker A: Emma Stone. I apologize. Yeah, just a really good time. I'm sure everybody's seen it by now. Willem Dafoe is brilliant. Eyes. So good. [01:10:58] Speaker B: Yeah. This is, like I said last week, I don't like the last hour of it or whatever, but that first hour and 15 minutes or whatever are, like, one of the most brilliant things I've seen. I think it's just such a good satire. And she worked her ass off for that Oscar. [01:11:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Fair play. She did a very brave performance. It's also got like animal chimera hybrids, which I like. Like a chicken dog. [01:11:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:11:23] Speaker A: I mean, fucking hell. What more do you want a chicken dog in? Yeah. I think you said it's got a lot of Tim Burton in. I. Having seen it, I would hazard that it's got more Terry Gilliam in it than anything else. [01:11:43] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, definitely. Absolutely. Well, I think, like, I think that's the thing, is it has multiple very clear influences in it. It's got the Gilliam, it's got the Burton, it's got your Edward Gore. It's got all these kinds of influence that it's absolutely wearing on its sleeve in this. So you can see where know looked to be inspired for this film. [01:12:06] Speaker A: Yeah, delighted. What a fun week of film watching. Here's to another one. [01:12:12] Speaker B: Here's to another one. Yeah. The only other things that I watched is I watched Argyle or an hour of Argyle and I gave up on Argyle. [01:12:21] Speaker A: Why would you? [01:12:22] Speaker B: It's as rough as everybody says it is. [01:12:24] Speaker A: And that's unfortunate acting from that. [01:12:26] Speaker B: Well, listen, I really like Kingsman one and two. And so, you know, I have this good faith attitude towards Matthew Vaughn that is only sometimes rewarded. And the trailers looked fun to me and stuff like that. So I thought at worst it was going to be like a good, mindless, fun couple of hours, even if it's bad. And it was not that it was so bad, it was boring. The CGI is laughable. It's offensive. How bad? The CGI in Argyle is truly terrible. There's a scene like right in the opening where Dua Lipa hops on a motorcycle and zooms off down this zigzaggy hill. And it is like a cartoon. That's not a human person on a. It's so, so bad. So don't watch Argyle. [01:13:25] Speaker A: Did you ever play fallout? [01:13:28] Speaker B: No. I played Fallout shelter a lot, but I never played actual fallout. [01:13:33] Speaker A: Because the fallout TV show looks fantastic. [01:13:37] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. [01:13:38] Speaker A: It really does. I mean, whether or not it sticks the landing, whether or not the show is any good, remains to be seen. But no fallout fan can tell me they haven't nailed the look. Oh, my God. [01:13:48] Speaker B: It looks fucking. And Fallout has a great aesthetic. [01:13:51] Speaker A: I mean, yes, it does. [01:13:52] Speaker B: Just in general. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that. [01:13:56] Speaker A: Visually, they've hit the nail on the head. My appetite is wetted. [01:14:01] Speaker B: Just don't like the way you said that. Like I said, I watched peeping Tom, 1960, a great classic british horror about a guy who basically, if he sees someone, a woman, look afraid through his camera, he feels compelled to murder her. And, yeah, great. Otherwise, very sort of timid, likable man who women tend to feel very protective. [01:14:26] Speaker A: About, not just the name we have in common. [01:14:30] Speaker B: Yeah, this is how I describe you to people. Just a really timid, likeful guy. Women just want to protect him, has to kill, and they look scared. Yeah, peeping Tom is great. Earned its classic status. And like you said, like you're watching something where they can only do so many things. Like, yes, there's some nudity in this, which is surprising, but also it's like they can't really show you the effects of the violence and stuff like that. So then how do they scare you? How do they get this across regardless? And, yeah, it's great. And for our first electric fan cave or Joag fan cave on our ko fi, I had assigned Kristen to watch the others. Now, in case you haven't seen this, the conceit of our Joag fan cave is essentially we're going to tell some stories, but talk a little bit of pop culture. But also each month I'm going to have Kristen watch a horror movie. She does not watch horror. You may have three years ago when she was on here, heard her discuss watching child's play for the first time. And so I assigned her to watch the others for our very first episode, which will be out next week or this week. This week is when it's coming out. So look out for that on Thursday or Friday. Excellent. So I rewatched it too. I wanted to be refreshed on it, even though I have probably seen the others a dozen times. It's one of those movies, like when you only had like, ten DVDs when you were younger. And so it's like, what were those? Well, one of them was the others. I've seen it a million times. But rewatching it is always so fun. I just get a kick out of that movie. One of those ones. I know every line by heart. It's so rare. Like, ghost movies are rare. [01:16:18] Speaker A: And especially Corey, people don't remember dialogue from movies. They just remember. They just remember what they have seen. [01:16:25] Speaker B: What they've seen. Are you mad? I am your daughter. Come on. So good. [01:16:31] Speaker A: Remember any fucking dialogue from Blade Runner 2049, I'll tell you that much. [01:16:34] Speaker B: Right? Yeah, exactly. [01:16:37] Speaker A: Really good English accent there, by the way. [01:16:39] Speaker B: Oh, thank you. Because I've seen that movie 8 billion times that can imitate that small child. Yeah, seeing the others again was just a blast for me. I think the last time I watched it was only like a year ago, but every time I revisit it, it's just such a good little ghosty movie. And Kristen sent me her notes as she watched it. She decided to sort of live note it as she was watching. And so watching her journey. If you've never seen the others, even though that was a million years ago, I'm not going to give away the twist to that, because watching Kristen experience, that was so much fun. So if you haven't seen the others and you're going to listen to it on the. Maybe, maybe go visit it so that you can experience that, too. [01:17:29] Speaker A: Yes, I. It's one that I've seen just the one time. And I couldn't tell you what the twist is. I couldn't tell you anything about it. [01:17:35] Speaker B: Well, I mean, I'm sure if you started watching it again, you'd be like, oh, that's right. Like, it would come back to you. But you should rewatch a. It's a fun time. Nicole Kidman is great in that movie. The kids are very creepy. It's got a great vibe. The fogginess and just being trapped. It's a trapped know people who can't leave. Yeah, it's a good one. [01:18:00] Speaker A: Okay. Sold. [01:18:02] Speaker B: So to close out, this is. This is a topic I had to twist Mark's arm to talk. [01:18:12] Speaker A: Well, now, we had a nice little topic all lined up for this week, right? Some classic stuff that we're going to do next. [01:18:18] Speaker B: Both researched heavily, have spent all our time on. We're ready to discuss. [01:18:23] Speaker A: Yeah, until I get a text message, like an hour ago. Mark, what's going on with the royal family? Fuck. [01:18:34] Speaker B: Listen. Okay. As everyone who listens to this knows, I'm fascinated by the british press. I think that it's such an interesting institution because it's so deeply untrustworthy, and yet it has such power in shaping british public opinion in a way that I don't think any of our media like that has that kind of power. People have their partisan media, right, that they go to, but there's no real, outside of your 24 hours, news people watch Fox News and be into it, but we don't all get the same news, and it's all shaped and the narrative is crafted and we all sort of take that and buy in. And so I've always been fascinated by that. And I told you, I read Prince Harry's book, which is hilarious. And I recommend to everyone because that man is the least self aware person on the planet. And it's just a delight to hear his oversharing in that book. But he also does talk about the british press in that and kind of the connection between the firm of the royal family and the press and how their sort of narratives are controlled and what they leak and all of that kind of stuff. And then I'm also really interested in how the british public relates to the monarchy. Right. And one of the things that you said out the gate was like, we don't, for the most part, most of us don't think about them. [01:20:23] Speaker A: Right, so a couple of things here before we kick off, right? [01:20:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:20:31] Speaker A: I'm not sure that the british press wields the same power to influence readership as maybe it did a decade ago. Circulation connects to this, I'm sure. But, yeah, go on, take the horrific fucking cunt rag, the sun, for example, right? [01:20:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:20:58] Speaker A: Since 2003, it has plummeted from, it's down to like 3 million or so copies a day sold, now down from 21, 22 million. [01:21:12] Speaker B: Wow, that's wild. [01:21:14] Speaker A: Just 510 years ago, the UK is. [01:21:18] Speaker B: What, like 70 million people? [01:21:20] Speaker A: Okay. Thereabouts. So if we can assume that other papers have followed the same trajectory, which they doubtless have, I don't think the press has anything like the influence that they enjoyed. [01:21:35] Speaker B: I mean, there has to be a degree too, though. But that's circulation, right? What about online? Does that play into your. Whatever you are reading the statistic from? [01:21:48] Speaker A: Granted, I haven't looked into this, but online and social now are the channels where, thanks to algorithms serving up only what people want to see, that's where you're going to find the most influence, the most damage done to kind of reinforcing people's biases, which for me. [01:22:10] Speaker B: So if I google anything that has to do with something in the UK, my results are going to be the mirror, the sun and the Daily Mail. [01:22:19] Speaker A: Yes. [01:22:20] Speaker B: And so I feel like there's still a degree. I think you're right. And obviously I'm an outsider, so I'm not going to be, like, american, splain your country to you. [01:22:32] Speaker A: It'S even lower than I just said. In 2020, daily circulation for the sun is now 1.2 million copies. And that was four years ago. [01:22:43] Speaker B: It's hard to imagine people still do get paper copy. [01:22:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Incredible. [01:22:48] Speaker B: Some rag. [01:22:49] Speaker A: Yes. Okay, so, yeah, I don't want to overstate the influence that those papers have now because I think it's largely petered out. [01:22:58] Speaker B: Well, then what would you say? Okay, from. Again, this is an outsider perspective, obviously. To an extent, I'm actually sort of validating what you're saying here, because one of the things that I've noticed about this, so I'm observing from watching Twitter and things like that over the years, like I said, it still seems like the source for most things is going to be, like those three papers. That's where you're going to find most of your stuff from the UK. And then, of course, obviously you have TV and all that kind of stuff. But if I'm looking to figure out what's going on in your country, those are the things that Google is going to serve to me. And I assume that's probably pretty similar for you. Right? Like, if you Google stuff that's going on, that's probably your top results. Right. [01:23:58] Speaker A: I also wouldn't say that if people are looking for news, they're going to Google it. I think people will go to their news providers and that's going to be the BBC, right? [01:24:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Of course. [01:24:11] Speaker A: If you're looking for an online source of UK news, the BBC will be your natural destination. [01:24:17] Speaker B: Yeah. And I guess I'm not talking about, like, news news, right. Because I don't feel like any of what we're about to talk about has anything to do with the news. Right. So true. But I have seen clips of your morning shows and things like that talking about this stuff. And so to not be. Most of you probably already know where this is going. And that is with the disappearance of Kate Middleton after having stomach surgery in January. And this is fascinating to me, not because I give a shit about what's going on in Kate Middleton's insides, but because of this inability of the press or the royal family to control the narrative that has sprung up out of this. [01:25:11] Speaker A: Bear me a sec. My computer is going to die unless I plug it in. [01:25:13] Speaker B: Oh, do that. Yes. But in this case. So, Kate, the last time that she was seen was Christmas 2023. And then in January, she went for a stomach surgery and the royal family put out a press release in which they said that she is having this surgery and the recovery period means that we're not going to see her till after Easter and. Cool. Right. She had a surgery. [01:25:47] Speaker A: She was in hospital at the same time as the king was being diagnosed. [01:25:50] Speaker B: Exactly. So he gets cancer, she goes in the hospital, like, literally the same day these things happen. Which. One of my favorite responses to this was that someone on TikTok said that someone's salt burning the royal family, which refers to in Saltburn. I don't think this is the central spoiler of the movie, but basically, in Saltburn, a rich family is being killed off bit by bit. So, yeah, someone is saltburning the royal family. This is all happening. So, of course, people start to question, oh, what's happening in the royal family? Everyone's sick. Someone put it like this. Makes the monarchy look weak when everyone is getting sick. And then for whatever reason, rather than just leaving it at that, they sort of streisand things by sprinkling out these little bits of Kate as if to prove that she's fine. So here's a blurry picture of her in the car with her mother, going somewhere. See, Kate's okay. They release a tweet in which. Or an Instagram post for Mother's Day with Kate and her children that is clearly photoshopped in multiple ways, including her gigantic ass head on her tiny body in it, and various other things that are all fucked up in this picture. [01:27:21] Speaker A: If you told me that entire photo had been, like, dolly, generous. [01:27:25] Speaker B: Yeah, straight up. No, absolutely. And clearly it wasn't. It was photoshopped. And the Internet has deep dived into that. Pulling apart. There's a theory. Like someone pointed out all of the outfits are the same ones that they wore to an appearance in November. And it looks like they just kind of changed the colors of them. Also, her face in the picture matches up identically with her face on the COVID of a vogue issue from a couple of years ago. Line for line, everything. [01:28:00] Speaker A: Did you notice how all of the kids have their fingers crossed? [01:28:03] Speaker B: Yeah, it's very weird. What was she doing? So there's all these very weird things about this. This caused the news agencies, including like Reuters and AP and so forth, to pull the photo. They killed the photo. They issued a kill order to say, this has been manipulated at the source. So you should not run this. Which then, of course, makes people like, what the fuck? Why is the royal family doing this? [01:28:33] Speaker A: See, I massively, massively respect that decision to kill the photo, right? It actually gives me some kind of faith in the news agencies that control the fucking global news output, right? [01:28:47] Speaker B: That, like, okay, they are looking at this. None of the Daily Mail, the Mirror, all that stuff. They did not do that. But the major worldwide news organizations pulled this photo and then they put out a tweet that was allegedly from Kate that was know. Like many amateur photographers, I dabble in photoshop. I'm sorry if that caused any confusion with the letter C at the end of it, which another quip that someone was made was the C was the beginning of her writing. Camilla has me locked in the basement. Help. Nice yeah. And so what's interesting to me is exactly kind of what you were saying, that the press and the royal family, that normally I think, like you said, the Brits don't think about them in their day to day life or whatever, at this point have exhausted the public and the faith in both the press and the royal family to tell them the truth about things has eroded to the point where mean, the theories on this, like, obviously there's been theories that Kate Middleton has been having an affair for, you know, she's having an affair and the royal family is dealing with it privately, so they're not letting her out. She's in a coma after her surgery and they don't want to tell us she had a facelift because the public reacted poorly to her looking her age in a photo, which is crazy. There was a photo of her where she actually looked in her forty s and people freaked the fuck out about it. People think she's got a body double. Maybe she's dead and they just have someone riding around pretending to be her. A personal favorite of mine, she and William got freaky Fridayed and they're walking around in each other's bodies so they can't let William Kate out. And one of the most common is that she had a BBL, which is my favorite because Kate Middleton is like one of the flattest an ass. [01:30:57] Speaker A: Right? [01:30:58] Speaker B: Like, this woman does not have a curve on her whole body and people really think she's going to come back with a Kardashian ass, that they're just going to try to play that. Oh, yeah. Over the course of this past couple of months, she's had a Brazilian. She's just gotten a bigger ass. She's been working out. What? But all of this, to me, is indicative of an interesting sort of moment, I think, in terms of trying to control the narrative around the royal family and in doing so, making themselves even more untrustworthy to a public that does not like Charles, does not trust them. [01:31:40] Speaker A: Your question to me earlier on, or your observation to me earlier on was they could have nipped this in the bud just with a couple of sentences through an official channel. Right? [01:31:51] Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah. [01:31:54] Speaker A: Being as british as I am, the only reason that they haven't done that is because they simply don't care. Right. They simply don't give a fuck what a handful of cranks with a phone have to say about them. [01:32:15] Speaker B: But then why would they keep following up, like, on top of her, putting out that tweet? They then put out a photo of her, like, the side of her face in a car with Prince William. And we're like, see, she's fine, and you can't see her. So it just fuels this further. They clearly do care about trying to convince us that she's fine. Otherwise they would just ignore it and know good morning, Britain talk about it amongst themselves. But they keep putting stuff out to try to be, no, it's fine. [01:32:47] Speaker A: I'm not sure that they are trying to convince us she's fine at all. I'm more minded to think that they're simply just doing what they normally do and just releasing photos because they know that the paparazzi will release them anyway. [01:33:04] Speaker B: I don't think that's the case. And I don't mean this in a conspiratorial way. I mean this in the like, because I've been so fascinated in the connection between the royal family and the press. Nothing gets out that they don't have their hands in. Nobody is posting pictures of the royal family without them looking through at first, because they intentionally maintained that certainly wasn't. [01:33:27] Speaker A: Relationship 1015 years ago. Right? But yes, since Diana and since William's fucking campaign of litigation against the british press, they are a lot more careful now about what they release. Gone are the days of phalanx of paparazzi outside every single fucking door. Those days are past. But I still am not convinced that the Independent press has 100% royal approval on every single photo that they publish. I don't necessarily agree with that. [01:34:05] Speaker B: Yeah, but in terms of, say, the picture that they put out to prove that she's fine, there would be zero reason for the press to print this picture. Because it shows us nothing. It doesn't give us anything. It's the side of her face. It's not interesting. It's not of interest to anyone. The only reason they published this is to convince us she's okay. Where all they need to do is be, listen, like, she's not. She's on bed rest or whatever, but it's this maintenance, an attempt to maintain the image of a strong monarchy. Right? Like, it's all good. Sure, Charles has cancer, but he's fine. Look at him. He's home. Everything's great. [01:34:49] Speaker A: That's a great point. [01:34:50] Speaker B: Yeah. Look at, like, Kate's fine. She's not. She's not lying in bed, like, sipping applesauce through a straw. She's healthy. She's out, you know, going and doing stuff. She's taking nice pictures with her children. She's probably literally just lying in bed trying to recover from this stomach surgery. But they're so obsessed with this control, which that I think, like you're saying nobody really cares about. But they still think they have to do know. They still think they have to present. [01:35:24] Speaker A: This mean there's certainly a hardcore monarchist type in the UK, right? They exist. I'm not saying they don't. [01:35:33] Speaker B: Oh, definitely. Again, if you look at any social media, those people turn. [01:35:39] Speaker A: Again. You know, it bears repeating that in day to day life, for day to day people, the footprint of the monarchy on our day to day lives is fucking nonexistent. [01:35:50] Speaker B: Right. [01:35:51] Speaker A: For actual real people, they just don't give a fuck. [01:35:55] Speaker B: And I think it's certainly getting smaller, too, because of the queen had so much goodwill built up. And whatever the case may be about people's everyday lives or whatever, when she died, you could see from people turning up that they did care. You could see from your wife buying a black wardrobe for this. Does the monarchy affect her everyday life? No. But when this turns up, like, people who otherwise did not care, they had an affection for these people that I feel like. Stuff like this shows, like, people are getting a little irritated. Do I think that means the monarchy is ending? No, of course not. But there is, like I said to. [01:36:39] Speaker A: You earlier on, I only give a fuck about the royals when one of them is. [01:36:45] Speaker B: When one of them dies. Yeah. [01:36:46] Speaker A: And I think that outpouring, air quotes of love for the queen was a little bit of that more than anything. [01:36:55] Speaker B: Else, rather than her, but in a positive way. Like, most people weren't like you. They weren't like, yes, finally, the old bitch is dead. I think most people, you would find if they turned out it was because they had positive feelings towards her. [01:37:15] Speaker A: Yes. I'd concede that it was mostly affectionate. Yes. And again driven by the media, again driven by the news that affection was milked when it became clear that she was in her final hours, I think, let's say, five years ago, were you to have done a fucking straw poll of the british public, how do you feel? I think the responses would have been largely indifferent. And the goal, lover duck, bless her. Fucking the blitz, governor, all that kind of fucking only came out because it was a national event. I remain adamant that the overbearing feeling towards the monarchy is one of either indifference or irritance. [01:38:10] Speaker B: Yeah, that's one of the things that I just found really interesting about this, is that I think that people are exhausted by the monarchy. And that's one of the things that I found fascinating when I ruined. Listen, I finally managed to get the TikTok algorithm so that on the rare occasion I open it, it shows me weather disasters, and I was enjoying beautiful. I have now ruined that by spending an hour today looking at TikToks about the monarchy. And I'm a little upset with myself for it. But that was one of the things that I thought was really interesting, is just like, the sense of exhaustion that people seem to have about the whole situation of just like, these fucking people can. They just. People aren't worried about. I mean, some people are feigning it, I think, but it's just people who like drama or whatever for the most part. It's just kind of like, this is funny. Why are they like this? Why are they doing this? Trying to force us to care about what's going on here and trying to control a narrative that largely everyone would just not be paying attention to if they didn't keep on fucking it up. [01:39:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, all interesting questions, I'm astounded that I'm talking about them. I'll be honest. Fucking. [01:39:34] Speaker B: You have to deal with my. [01:39:36] Speaker A: Roped me into a fucking conversation about the royal bastard family, right? [01:39:40] Speaker B: I podcast with an American, so you have to entertain these questions I have about, tell you what, your country. [01:39:50] Speaker A: Why don't I just lay out a few conspiracy theories that I found right here as. [01:39:55] Speaker B: Here we go. [01:39:56] Speaker A: So Karen McGrain on Reddit says will is known for being violent. Harry talked about it in his book. Will assaulted Kate on December the 20 eigth, and an ambulance was called a Sandringham. Kate experienced a traumatic brain injury so badly that she was put into a coma. Kate is so badly hurt that she's physically incapable of providing video evidence that she's okay. Directly underneath. Kate has a severe eating disorder that became critical on December the 20 eigth when the ambulance was called. As a result of the eating disorder, she needed a colostomy. [01:40:26] Speaker B: I mean, she clearly does have an eating disorder. I wouldn't be surprised if whatever happened to her stomach is a result of that. [01:40:32] Speaker A: Say that. How do you mean? She's clearly got an eating disorder. What are you basing that on? [01:40:36] Speaker B: Well, that's a whole other discussion. Let's not go down. And she's not just slim, but, yeah, if you look, I mean, this is one of those things that has been. Even Americans have talked about this for years. The skeletal nature and popsicle head and the fine hair on her shoulders and things like that that are the hallmarks of anorexia. So this has been a long time discussion not just this time, which is where they're getting that from. I would not be surprised if that contributed to why she has stomach issues. [01:41:08] Speaker A: Well, yes, and again, I've seen bulimia up close. I know the symptoms of which you speak. Another discussion for another time. Let's see. Kate got pregnant at 42, and the baby's at risk. They're keeping her safe until they know if the pregnancy is viable. Otherwise, hey, at least no one will know. [01:41:29] Speaker B: At least that entails some affection between her and William in that one, because normally it's like, know how they're this close to divorcing or whatever. [01:41:39] Speaker A: Yes. Hysterectomy, most likely. Possibly some sort of small bowel. It. I think she had an organ transplant. And the reason they're being so secretive is that the backlash from her skipping the line would be way worse than the rampant conspiracy theories. [01:41:54] Speaker B: And that's not a conspiracy theory. [01:41:56] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, fucking hell. That's all I'll say about it. Right, right. The fact that they exist vexes me enough. The fact that the press are doing their very best to make news out of a fucking chunky fucking Photoshop job vexes me further. And the fact that I've spent 20 fucking six minutes talking about it in my free time is the last straw. [01:42:26] Speaker B: To be fair, this was part of the reason that I wanted to talk about it was because I knew of how much it would vex you to have to consider these people for any length. [01:42:37] Speaker A: This is a good one. The more pressing question is, why haven't we seen proof of life since January? I do not think she is dead. So that leaves either, A, she's not conscious, or b, her face is not presentable. Wow. [01:42:49] Speaker B: But I think it's true. Her face is not presentable because she's recovering from a surgery. And I think the thing that I saw that most resonated was like, listen, they have spent years cultivating her as this perfect woman, this very presentable woman, and she probably looks like shit trying to recover from something. And all they're trying to do is not show the princess looking, yeah. As a human being. And that's why she's not out. And they told us she was not going to be out. They're letting her get through this so that when she comes back, we'll all be like, wow, look at how fresh and lovely she looks. That's the whole thought process. It's no deeper than mean. [01:43:35] Speaker A: The implication on this post B, her face is not presentable is that Harry has fucking caved her face in with. Know, with a ming vase or whatever that you just had to hand. [01:43:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I've seen a lot of plastic surgery things, too, as know. Because, again, she's getting. You know, maybe they fixed her up or I. Yeah, I don't think it's even that deep. I think it's simply like, would you want a picture of you in your worst times up on the Internet? Probably not. Let alone when you're the princess and you have cultivated an image where that's not. [01:44:13] Speaker A: I have those pictures. [01:44:14] Speaker B: Oh, I'm sure you do. [01:44:17] Speaker A: You don't want to see them. [01:44:19] Speaker B: Listen, in these days of social media, though, people do post pictures of them in the worst states. So maybe this is completely foreign to the Internet, the idea that you don't want to show everyone. [01:44:33] Speaker A: Well, Laura videoed me some months ago in what can only be described as an horrific fucking condition. Let's fucking pray that never sees the light day. [01:44:46] Speaker B: God, I want to see it. How dare you tantalize me like this? I want to see that video. But it's not for public consumption. That's the idea. [01:44:56] Speaker A: Absolutely not. Can we stop talking about the. [01:44:58] Speaker B: We're not talking about the royal family for now, okay? [01:45:03] Speaker A: Just do it on fucking fan cave. [01:45:06] Speaker B: But I don't have a Brit on the fan cave to discuss the other end of this. You know, it's more fun when I can poke at you about what's going on in your country. Yeah. [01:45:19] Speaker A: One word about the royals when I'm in New York and I'm getting on the next plane. One word, Vaughan. [01:45:26] Speaker B: This is. Listen, it may not be me. People are going to hear your accent, and they're going to want to know what you think about Harry and Meghan, all that kind of stuff. [01:45:36] Speaker A: Right? I'm gone. [01:45:40] Speaker B: Friends, thanks for listening in with us as we rambled this week. Just a good, old fashioned, rambly time with Jack, of all graves. [01:45:49] Speaker A: Hey, listen, don't say we aren't a podcast with breadth of content. It was only two weeks ago. We were in fucking Gaza and Ukraine. [01:45:58] Speaker B: It's true. We've come a long way since then. I feel like I'm in recovery now, so I'm just in a state of trying to be as light hearted as possible while all of that stuff is still going on and dominates a good chunk of my life. Like, we get on here, I'm just going to harass you, you about the press and the monarchy instead of thinking about that for a couple of hours. [01:46:21] Speaker A: Therapy is all. [01:46:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Hopefully you find it therapeutic at home to hear these things and anything else. [01:46:33] Speaker A: Yeah. Stay spooky. See you next week. Bye.