Ep. 246: the man of the hole

[00:00:04] Speaker A: One of those openings here that we're gonna zig and zag a little bit, if that's fine. [00:00:08] Speaker B: You, I'm happy to zag. [00:00:10] Speaker A: We're gonna go to the left, we're gonna go to the right. I would. Freewheeling a little bit isn't the very idea of society and the very idea of companionship and community is not the very idea that we are part of something bigger than ourselves. Is that not in itself laughable when all you have to, Isn't it though, when all you have to do is just zoom out, Just go up a mile and that idea becomes laughable. Go up two miles and look down and it becomes even more comedic. Go up 3, 4, 5 miles, it becomes tragic. We're alone. [00:00:49] Speaker B: That's the one thing that, like astronauts always say when they go up is the exact opposite of that, is that when they get up above the earth, they look down and they realize how wonderful and like perfect it is that we live in community with one another. [00:01:06] Speaker A: Hey, did you see what William Shatner had to say when he went up to the edge of space? [00:01:11] Speaker B: Yeah. That made him depressed and he wanted to die. [00:01:15] Speaker A: Just, I looked down and I just felt disgusted at all of this and I, I don't know, I wonder if I, I feel as though maybe I'd be more on his side of things because I, I, I don't, I don't, I don't think we can truly. If you look at the dizzying, sickening scale of nothing that surrounds us, just a tiny filament of air away, a tiny membrane of atmosphere separates us from, from eternal nothing. [00:01:47] Speaker B: Sure. [00:01:48] Speaker A: Right. So don't come at me and say that we're all a global village because that, it means, it means nothing, just like anything else. It is meaningless, it is utterly meaningless. Anyway, oh, listen, you're welcome to. It doesn't change a thing. But listen, like I said, gunna say gunna zag. Do you feel, do you feel lonely, Corey? [00:02:14] Speaker B: No, I'm not a lonely person. Generally, I will say, I think like most people, if I stay up too late, then maybe I start to feel a little bit lonely, but. [00:02:28] Speaker A: And is that happening to you currently. [00:02:30] Speaker B: That I'm staying up too late? [00:02:32] Speaker A: Well, you're tired, aren't you? [00:02:34] Speaker B: Oh, I am. [00:02:36] Speaker A: We've spoken of this earlier on, before I hit record. Are you alright? [00:02:40] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I'm fine. I mean, you know, I never sleep well. Yeah, and I do have the, I do struggle with changes in time, but no, I'm not in the, like in the Sad and lonely. Tired, I think. But you know, that's what I mean is like you've been there though, right? Where there is a degree of tired and an hour of being awake where you feel like you're the only person in the world. [00:03:06] Speaker A: Misery, misery. [00:03:08] Speaker B: Your social feeds dry up, nobody's saying anything anymore. There's. You're just like, I am alone in the universe. [00:03:15] Speaker A: Yeah, 100%. And it might interest you to know that that loneliness I speak of in, in particular, also alongside the tiredness that you're talking of there, it isn't just a psychological impact that one feels, it actually has physical impacts on your neurochemistry also. [00:03:35] Speaker B: Okay, interesting. [00:03:37] Speaker A: There is science here. There are actual fun. They're actual. There's a guy by the name of John Caccioppo who is a professor of social neuroscience. Neuroscience, I believe, out of Chicago and others have proven that as little as two to three weeks of pronounced, pronounced loneliness. Right. What they term social deprivation, just two or three weeks can begin to alter brain activity in dopamine systems, in the fear and threat regulation processes in your amygdala. So your fear and threat regulation becomes hyperactive. Just even the most minor slight or inconvenience is perceived as a threat. [00:04:35] Speaker B: That. I mean, I get that. I mean, I'm sure. Well, and maybe I'm kind of asking this if they make a distinction between being alone and loneliness here, but obviously I often spend weeks by myself here. [00:04:48] Speaker A: Yes. [00:04:49] Speaker B: And that heightened threat thing is relatable. Right. Like if I don't necessarily feel lonely, but the idea that after a while I start to get a little more paranoid, you know. [00:05:02] Speaker A: Yeah, it. What is telling for me is that it's termed social deprivation. Not kind of physical company removal or. [00:05:10] Speaker B: Isolation, but lack of any actively not interacting with anyone. [00:05:15] Speaker A: Yes, exactly this. Exactly this. So, which by the way, remind me. [00:05:19] Speaker B: To just coming back around to that. I just watched a fascinating video about chatgpt psychosis that relates a bit to this, but go on. [00:05:32] Speaker A: It's becoming more and more difficult for us to ignore that, isn't it? [00:05:36] Speaker B: It is, yes. Yeah. [00:05:39] Speaker A: I wonder if it might be. Or is it unprofessional maybe, or a break of some ethical code for you to talk about. About your work and how GPT is impacting it. [00:05:48] Speaker B: No, not broadly. As long as I don't talk about specific students or anything. [00:05:54] Speaker A: Let's put that one in the pipeline for the future then. And keeping that in mind, if you would. Right. Keeping in mind what I've just said there about just two to three weeks of deprivation, of social deprivation. Come with me now to the Amazon basin. [00:06:12] Speaker B: All right. Excellent. [00:06:13] Speaker A: Right. Come with me, in fact, if you would, to Rondonia. [00:06:21] Speaker B: Rondonia. [00:06:22] Speaker A: Rondonia. R, O, N, D, O. With a little hat on. N, I, A. [00:06:27] Speaker B: Okay. I'm not familiar with this place. I don't know. The double dots teacher would be very upset with me that I don't know Rondonia. I think my Welsh teacher actually calls it the little hat as well. [00:06:39] Speaker A: There you go. Well, then that's what it is. If it's good enough for her, it's good enough for her. Rondonia is a region which borders Bolivia. [00:06:50] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:06:52] Speaker A: And has been inhabited. The Amazon as a whole has been populated. Right. [00:06:59] Speaker B: Sure. [00:07:00] Speaker A: For around about 12,000 years with lots of distinct hunter gatherer, distinct kind of tribal indigenous peoples. Right. [00:07:17] Speaker B: Yeah. That's why there's still, like, uncontacted tribes and things like that down there. Like, it's so dense that you cannot encounter other people very easily. [00:07:33] Speaker A: So why don't we pick this up? Between the 17th and 18th century. Right. [00:07:39] Speaker B: Okay. [00:07:41] Speaker A: When an intense and prolonged period of what I would term intrusion begins. Colonial intrusion kicked off, like I said, 17th, 18th century, the Portuguese. But the. The deep internal kind of woodland that you spoke about there, which is now known as Rondonia, it remained largely beyond development, largely beyond reach. So dense was it until. [00:08:19] Speaker B: Oh, sorry. Go ahead. [00:08:20] Speaker A: Go on, please. [00:08:21] Speaker B: I was just gonna say, like, you know, some passing interest in this. I've never been to South America. Interested in it, but I read the book the Lost City of Z, and then I've also seen, like, my man Josh Gates going into the Amazon and whatnot. And one of the things that's, like, so fascinating about this, like, with that colonial intrusion and things like that, is whether it is the colonial intrusion or stuff that was created by indigenous people. Like, we don't know about a lot of it because, again, the forest takes it. [00:08:54] Speaker A: Yes. [00:08:54] Speaker B: So quickly. [00:08:56] Speaker A: And when. [00:08:57] Speaker B: Incredible. [00:08:59] Speaker A: When the indigenous peoples die, their language dies with them. [00:09:04] Speaker B: Yep. [00:09:05] Speaker A: Their. Almost. Their faith, their rituals. [00:09:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:10] Speaker A: All dies with them. But we'll get there. Let's jump forward a little bit to the turn of. Between the kind of 18 and 1900s. Right. [00:09:20] Speaker B: Okay. [00:09:22] Speaker A: The US has rapidly industrialized, as has Europe, bringing with it the need for colossal amounts and capitalization of rubber. Okay, Right. Natural latex and I guess you would call them at the time. Entrepreneurs poured into the Amazon many kind of private enterprises, all of which were built on the fucking murder and enslavement and kidnapping and forced labor of indigenous people. [00:10:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:10] Speaker A: Entire fucking communities deforested, wiped out to force extraction of natural latex, rubber extraction. And much, much, there's so much written about this. What's the term that often gets used? Bear with me a second. The term that often gets used is the cyclo daboraja. I'm probably mangling that, but it's the rubber cycle, the rubber boom. Ciclo C I C L O daboracha B O R A C H A the rubber cycle, the rubber boom. And with that came the decimation, if that's a word, of indigenous populations. Indigenous populations near rivers, interior forest tribes. The land, from the, the kind of industrial point of view was known, was, was thought of as unused, was thought of as wild, was thought of as up to grabs. [00:11:21] Speaker B: Sure. [00:11:22] Speaker A: And that led, like I said, to this rubber boom, this absolute tearing down and mangling, building of kind of trade routes and a particular, particular group of indigenous people known as the Tanaru. Okay, when I say a tiny group, we are talking by the early 1970s between about 40 and 60 individual members of this very distinct, linguistically distinct, culturally distinct. But by the 70s, so rife and widespread and violent and uncompromising was the, the grab for their land. We have no more than 60 left. [00:12:11] Speaker B: Wow. [00:12:13] Speaker A: And as settlers then arrived logging, cattle barons, fucking agriculture. [00:12:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:21] Speaker A: Violence immediate and pronounced. You know, you got your fucking pistol arrows, fucking massacring. [00:12:31] Speaker B: Right. [00:12:31] Speaker A: Indigenous people on behalf of landowners who just want foreign countries. Exactly right, exactly. This there are. So by 1996, as this continues, this goes on. A, a foundation, a foundation called FUNAI F U N A I Fundachao Nacional do India. Right, Okay. A foundation that was established in the 60s to almost lobby and protect indigenous rights and lands. They noted in 1996, poor, solitary human activity. Solitary human activity in what came to be known as Rondonia. By this point, right. By the 80s, the numbers of the Tanneru that I spoke about were down. Two single figures, down to a handful. [00:13:35] Speaker B: Right. [00:13:36] Speaker A: This body, this board, FUNAI had through reconnaissance and through expedition and through observation, noted kind of sites of multiple massacres and killings. And from one of these sites a single set of footprints was found. A single set of tracks was found leaving the kill site. [00:14:00] Speaker B: Uh huh. [00:14:02] Speaker A: Signs of individual human activity. The last fucking member of the Tanaru tribe. One fucking guy left 1996. Yep. Wow. One guy. [00:14:18] Speaker B: That's bonkers. [00:14:20] Speaker A: They found evidence of this one guy gardening, making little crops of things like bananas, papaya, maize. Sure, they tracked him building huts, building Thatched kind of huts. [00:14:38] Speaker B: Multiple. [00:14:39] Speaker A: And yes, yes. That he would rotate during different seasons. [00:14:44] Speaker B: Because he's got all of, you know, centuries or more of indigenous knowledge informing the way that he does things. Even though he's just a guy. [00:14:53] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:14:54] Speaker B: That's one of the interesting things about, like, indigenous knowledge is because obviously, you know, it is learned and passed down and it's not based on, like, oh, we've tracked the weather patterns with radar and blah, blah, blah. And so often, like, if you think about when we talked about Lake Neos in Cameroon, that it was like the lore had said, don't build your house down near this lake. Right. And nobody knew why that was. They didn't know it was because the lake explodes. But it had been passed down through generations and generations. [00:15:27] Speaker A: Yes. [00:15:27] Speaker B: So this guy. [00:15:29] Speaker A: Yes. [00:15:29] Speaker B: Is doing what has been passed down through generations and generations. [00:15:34] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:15:34] Speaker B: Not necessarily why, but that's what you're supposed to do. [00:15:38] Speaker A: But as the last. Like we said earlier on, his language gone, right? His society, his community gone. His name gone. And in the. The. The habitats that he'd built, even though, like I said, there were lots of them, that he would cycle around through the seasons, but there was one feature in common of many, many of the habitats he built in that he would build holes, right? Sometimes two meters deep. And no real consensus that I found on what they were used for. They might have been hunting or concealment or ritual or, you know, mourning or communing with, you know, the dead, but it was that that led to him being given the name, right? Man of the Hole, or homemde Bracco. The man of the Hole is what they called him because they had no other fucking name to give. [00:16:34] Speaker B: This guy is just a dude who likes holes. [00:16:38] Speaker A: Exactly. And Corey, this guy lived in that area of the Amazon for more than two decades alone. [00:16:49] Speaker B: How do they. I mean, how do they know what I mean? [00:16:54] Speaker A: So Funey engaged in a long, often quite fucking ugly legal battle because they saw the fucking enormity of what they'd found here and established in 1998 something they called the Tanaru indigenous territory. So they set up a fucking space of like 8,000 hectares around this guy. [00:17:20] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:17:22] Speaker A: Yes. With a no contact policy. [00:17:27] Speaker B: Right. [00:17:27] Speaker A: They observed but never approached the dude. And on the few occasions that they did, you know, he tried to eat spears at them, obviously. [00:17:36] Speaker B: Okay. I was gonna say, like, you know, part of me would wonder, like, shouldn't they maybe try to get in touch, like, if this guy is just, like, stuck there by himself, but there's a. [00:17:47] Speaker A: Guardian article where they talk about, you know, they absolutely tried to contact him. [00:17:53] Speaker B: He made it clear he did not want that. [00:17:55] Speaker A: To quote The Guardian. In 2007, FUNAI officials made an attempt at contact, but he repelled it, leaving one man with a bad arrow wound. You know what I mean? Leave me the. [00:18:05] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely not. [00:18:07] Speaker A: But what they did was watch. They watched him over 20, over two decades and was maintained. [00:18:15] Speaker B: Like, do they know how. Like, obviously they couldn't talk to him. Do they have a sense of how long he'd been there but before with no one else or. [00:18:22] Speaker A: We'll get there. We'll get there. [00:18:23] Speaker B: Okay, okay, sorry, go ahead. [00:18:26] Speaker A: They set up cameras, right? They set up remote cameras to observe him and they watched him and going around his gardens, foraging honey and fruits and nuts. He would abandon his huts and move on to a new one, dig in a fresh pit every time. And occasionally they would leave him kind of gifts, care packages. They would leave metal tools on the boundary of his land. They would give him food items or like, seeds. Sometimes they would be taken, sometimes they wouldn't. Sometimes he would just leave them alone. This kind of unspoken kind of dialogue between the two parties. Incredible. Like I said, they had motion activated cameras set up and hidden in the forest. And there are pictures of him. There are pictures of this built, tall, slender dude. [00:19:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I'll bet. [00:19:26] Speaker A: He's got like a headdress of tree bark and twigs. [00:19:31] Speaker B: Fascinating. [00:19:32] Speaker A: Just building his habitats. Incredible stuff. And it was In August of 2022, right after 26 years of total isolation, total solitude, that he was found in his hammock, dead. [00:19:57] Speaker B: Wow. [00:19:59] Speaker A: He had covered himself in kind of feathery adornments or almost like a solo shroud. Like a. Yes, almost like a solo funerary kind of ritual. Yes. No signs of outside interference or struggle. Died alone. [00:20:21] Speaker B: Knew he was going to die. [00:20:24] Speaker A: Man of the hole, man. He knew it was coming. He knew it was coming. Wow. And. And in the, the 25, 26 years that they'd been aware of his existence and followed him, you know, huge kind of legal battles over his land, the cattle lobbies, the soy farmers, of course. [00:20:44] Speaker B: Like, you're just always banging on all this space for one guy. [00:20:48] Speaker A: Yes. With the, the corporate argument being that it, it's, it's a waste. It's pointless to reserve these thousands of hectares for one man. [00:20:55] Speaker B: Yeah. You're not even preserving the, you know, language or culture or anything because it dies with him. [00:21:00] Speaker A: Yes, indeed. And of course, under Bolsonaro, Yeah, he. [00:21:06] Speaker B: Was all about trying to just knock down Everything. [00:21:10] Speaker A: Yes. Yes. He completely decimated funai. Closed offices, defunded them. But all through that time, almost kind of due to the. In large part the scrutiny, the political kind of pressure that this guy's tale had generated, they kept the reserve throughout his entire Life. But by 2022 and he died, that was it for the Chonoru people. The fucking lineage, the names, the language, everything dead with him. The final fucking guy of his tribe after living alone for 26 years. Man. How insane is that? [00:21:49] Speaker B: That. That is wild. I mean, it's tough because it's like you'd have so much. You want to ask him about this? How did. I mean, you know, how it happened, you know, annihilated by colonialism and capitalism and corporate greed. But, you know, how does it come to the point where you're the only one left and then that you. You don't attempt to make any form of contact? Like, you know, it seems like he carried out various rituals and things like that. You know, the headdress and all this kind of stuff that, like, I don't know there made. There's some sort of. He felt a spiritual reason for his, you know, solitude or something, and to take it with him. [00:22:36] Speaker A: I don't know. It's fascinating, but with the kind of hereditary skills that gave him self sufficiency. [00:22:41] Speaker B: Right. He was perfectly prepared for this place. [00:22:45] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm fucking fine. You stay the fuck over there. Is it. Is there, I wonder, something in him? Obviously, with one set of footprints walking away from a kill site, he would have seen his fucking people over the years. He died in his 60s, so he would have been kind of in his 20s or so when he took to the woods on his own. [00:23:03] Speaker B: Mm. [00:23:05] Speaker A: You know, does that have. Does that play a part? I've seen what can be fucking what can happen. [00:23:10] Speaker B: Right, exactly. Like, there has to be a degree of. I can't. I know what happened to my people, and I can't trust what's going on. Was he sent off? Maybe he was sent off with someone else and they were supposed to try to, you know, carry on where they went, and, you know, that didn't happen. Or, you know, there's any number of reasons why this guy would have ended up out there. [00:23:37] Speaker A: And based on what I said right at the start, if a couple of weeks will rewire your right neurochemistry and your neuroplasticity, what would fucking. What would 26 years do? The guy was a loneliness machine by the end. [00:23:52] Speaker B: Right. Well. And that, I mean, does raise the question of Kind of if he was alone, but seemed to be unbothered by that. Like, we don't know that he was lonely, by the way that we consider it. [00:24:07] Speaker A: Right. [00:24:07] Speaker B: Certainly socially deprived. Right. Like, from that initial study you were talking about. Right. The social deprivation is real. Although he knows there are people around, he's aware of the presence of others. [00:24:22] Speaker A: Choice, isn't it? [00:24:23] Speaker B: It's choice. Right. Like, if he were lonely, as we conceive of that idea as an emotional idea, he had every opportunity to change that. [00:24:38] Speaker A: Mm. [00:24:39] Speaker B: So what was going on in his mind, you know, or some people just built different, you know, I think that. [00:24:46] Speaker A: Do you know, I think that's probably what it is. [00:24:48] Speaker B: The guy's just built different. It makes me feel like he had to have felt there was purpose to it. Right. You know, that his isolation was for some kind of reason, and that's why he wouldn't branch, because I just can't imagine that someone would just, like, be like, no, this is fine. And not just, like, off themselves, you know, after that long, you have to have a feel like there's a reason. [00:25:15] Speaker A: Instead of just 26 years. Fucking hell. [00:25:20] Speaker B: You know, and for who knows how long before they came across him there. Like, has he been like that since he was a kid, you know? [00:25:29] Speaker A: Well, it's, it's. It feels as though he was in his kind of 60s when found dead. [00:25:36] Speaker B: Mm. [00:25:38] Speaker A: So back 26 years from that. That's why I think, you know, he would have been in his 30s. [00:25:43] Speaker B: Well. When they found him, though, Right. Not. [00:25:45] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great point. That's a great point. [00:25:47] Speaker B: So he could have been there longer than that, I guess. Maybe if they were sort of monitoring the area, maybe they knew that he had moved into that region or something like that. I don't know. But that is absolutely fascinating. [00:26:02] Speaker A: Yes. I, I, it isn't just a bit what I said at the beginning. Right. I do, you know, the. I still maintain, even after all these years, that it's pointless. Everything, like, everything. You can just go up a layer or two and everything becomes ridiculous and pointless. [00:26:21] Speaker B: But the other end of that, that you, you know, the revelation that you've had several times is that that's the point. Right. [00:26:27] Speaker A: This exactly. [00:26:28] Speaker B: Being pointless isn't meaningless per se. [00:26:31] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:26:32] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:26:32] Speaker A: And on 26 years of growing crops and digging holes and that if that in itself can be a universe for one person, you know. [00:26:47] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it's, it's such a. Like, it's what, when we talk about, like, what separates us from animals and Things like that, like this is usually it's the relational aspect of. Of it that. And we know we'll die. Right. But the, the fact that, you know, we relate to each other in a way that animals operate on instinct and blah, blah, blah, blah. And when you see something like this, you can see that we are animals, you know, that in these kinds of situations, like, we will just plug away and do what we need to survive or whatever. But in terms of, you know, finding joy and meaning, often we need support systems and most of us couldn't, you know, live like this guy did. [00:27:34] Speaker A: I do. You know, the more I think of it, the more I wonder if the more I am tempted to frame it as like a massive, massive trauma response in the game. [00:27:47] Speaker B: Well, yeah, I mean, that certainly feels like it's gotta at least be part of the case. Right. If you're the one person left in your tribe. [00:27:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:56] Speaker B: You have seen everyone around you die. And from the sounds of it, violently, very violently. So the idea of just choosing to fuck it off entirely and just, you know, live things out, yeah, I'd buy that. That's. That's a trauma. It's just I, it's, I think also the other thing from the perspective of, you know, an American or a Brit in 2025, where we're so. To me, I always say that, like, I haven't been bored since like 1996. Right. Like, there's always some way to get in contact with someone. There's something to watch. There's like, we're so inundated with stimuli 24 7, and there's something that just feels like if you didn't. You don't even have so much as books. What do you do to occupy your mind? [00:28:57] Speaker A: It's one of the things that's keeping me in my book era, man. I am. It's. It's quietly very validating and reassuring to learn that I can still hold one item in my attention for an extended period of time. I can still spend, you know, an hour or so just on one thing. [00:29:20] Speaker B: Right. [00:29:21] Speaker A: Honestly, I can't overstate how much of a relief it is to find that I can still read a book without fucking, you know. [00:29:29] Speaker B: Yeah. Checking everything. [00:29:31] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [00:29:32] Speaker B: No, I, I 100% agree with that. And, you know, a lot of times, like, I often will, like, play a video game and listen to an audiobook and things like that, you know, but. Yep, I have. [00:29:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Just before we recorded, I went upstairs to check on Peter. I just say goodnight to Peter and He's watching fucking TV with one AirPod in listening to music. [00:29:51] Speaker B: Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's. That's too much. Yeah. And I've known a lot of the youngs who do that kind of thing, and that's crazy to me, but yeah, like, that amount of stimulus, I. I tend to feel the same way when I sit. Like the other day I was like, I'm going to sit and I'm going to read the Haunting of Hill House. And so I just spent the day reading that story. And it's like, okay, I can sit and do that. And it makes you feel like I'm not completely overtaken by all of the things that are demanding our attention all the time. And it's just so, you know, it's hard to put yourself in the position to think about what it would be like if you didn't have all of this available to you. [00:30:41] Speaker A: It is, it is, it is. I. I'm very glad that no, you know, tiktokers latched onto man of the Hole because they would have been trying to feed him white monster and fucking, you know, blue cheetos or whatever. Let me quote directly from my notes, if I may. [00:30:59] Speaker B: Yes, please do. [00:31:01] Speaker A: Fucking look at these nerds. Oh, mise en scene. [00:31:04] Speaker B: I don't think anyone has ever said mise en scene in such a horny way before. [00:31:08] Speaker A: The way I whispered the word sex. Cannibal received. [00:31:11] Speaker B: Worst comes to worst. Mark, I'm willing to guillotine you for science. [00:31:15] Speaker A: Thank you. That's really, really sweet. It's cold outside, but my pancreas is talking to me. I'm fucking. I'm gonna leg it. [00:31:21] Speaker B: You know how I feel about that, Mark? [00:31:23] Speaker A: I think you feel great about it. And that, friends, was a response to a one word prompt. Cause that's what we're doing at the minute. [00:31:35] Speaker B: Yes. [00:31:36] Speaker A: Is we are prompting one another to deliver openings based on our vibes. And what you just heard was a response to a one word prompt from Corrigan. Isolation. [00:31:46] Speaker B: Isolation. Yes. Absolutely. Nailed it. I didn't give any further instructions than that. [00:31:52] Speaker A: I just said no. Just one word. [00:31:54] Speaker B: Isolation. I was watching a YouTube video yesterday and at this point, I don't even remember what it was about, but at the time I was like, I need for Mark to. To tell me a story about isolation. And so that was immediately, like. I paused the YouTube video and was. [00:32:13] Speaker A: Like, mark, somebody did just mid watch. [00:32:16] Speaker B: Just mid watch. [00:32:17] Speaker A: I was like, I'm never far from your thoughts on my. [00:32:19] Speaker B: No, always. Always just on the edge of my mind. Such warmth we are not isolated as long as we have. [00:32:28] Speaker A: No, certainly not. We are. We're together yet apart, aren't we? That's. That's you and I. We are together always, every day. Even though we are separated by an entire planet between us. [00:32:41] Speaker B: I know it's pretty crazy. [00:32:42] Speaker A: Far apart. And just like you, dear listeners, right? I want you to know that I think about you. I think about every one of you. [00:32:52] Speaker B: Oh, my. [00:32:53] Speaker A: I think about what you're doing. I think about whether you've. [00:32:57] Speaker B: Oh, no. [00:32:58] Speaker A: I think about whether you've had a nice breakfast. Oh, yeah. I think about what you're wearing. I think about if you've had a wee today yet. I think about have you got enough food in the cupboard? Have you checked on your mum or your dad if you don't have a mum, or your mum if you don't have a dad, or if you checked on a relative if somebody checked on you? I think about. Are you warm enough? Do you need to put another layer on before you go out? I think about what kind of a day you had at work. Who are you coming home to? Is the house empty or warm or cold? I. I want you to know that we know it gets tough. And we think about you. Right? And that's what Jack of all Graves is. It's the safe space for unsafe thoughts. [00:33:49] Speaker B: Right? [00:33:50] Speaker A: It's a comfortable spot to think uncomfortable things. True. Right. It's the podcast that's always gonna be here, even though the world is burning up day by day. [00:34:04] Speaker B: Truth. [00:34:05] Speaker A: Right? We're a fucking weekly paradox. And you are warmly invited and welcome to experience it for yourself here with your spooky besties, Mark and Corrigan. [00:34:18] Speaker B: Yes. At the video. Well, it was one of these two. It could have been either one. I found this guy called The Mystorian on YouTube. [00:34:27] Speaker A: Sounds like a dick. Sounds like a dweeb. [00:34:30] Speaker B: He's actually. He reminds me of us. He talks about things very much. [00:34:33] Speaker A: Is it Mystorian? [00:34:35] Speaker B: Yeah, like mystery and historian Betty wears. [00:34:39] Speaker A: Like, a fedora, doesn't he? And those, like, cyberpunk shades. Steampunk glasses with, like, the little kind of shades bit at the side. You know what I'm talking about? Steampunk goggles. [00:34:48] Speaker B: Yeah. No, I don't. I don't. That's not the vibe I get from. I think you'd like this guy. But I. When I wash dishes, because I fucking hate washing dishes, I put on YouTube videos so that at least there's, like, something distracting me while I do it. And so I came across this guy The Mistorian. And he had two videos that I watched yesterday while I was. While I was washing dishes and making dinner. One of them was about the lost colony of Roanoke, and the other one was about the Flannan Isle Lighthouse. [00:35:24] Speaker A: Greetings, followers. And it is I. The mythorious. [00:35:27] Speaker B: Not how he talks nude. He's. I think he's British. He sounds. He sounds more like your people than like me. But no, the. The lighthouse one. I've read about this before. Have you read about the Flann and Isles lighthouse situation? [00:35:45] Speaker A: Possibly. [00:35:47] Speaker B: It's basically that, you know, these. At lighthouses, obviously, the guys stay out there for a period of time, and then someone will come to relieve them. And much like the movie the Lighthouse, there's, you know, a bit of a stereotype about them going crazy or things going wrong while they're out there, because it is isolating and shit can happen out there. But when the crew came to relieve the three guys that were there, they found the lighthouse empty. And, you know, we're trying to figure out what the. What the hell happened here. There's no trace of. [00:36:23] Speaker A: Oh, that's sick. [00:36:24] Speaker B: Yeah. No end of the. [00:36:26] Speaker A: I bet that is a rich vein of mystery to tap. Like cormate. I bet there's no end of lighthouse mysteries. [00:36:33] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. I was thinking about that. I almost was like, oh, maybe I'll have Mark tell me a lighthouse. [00:36:39] Speaker A: I'll write that down. Give me a sec. I've got to go to my notes. You know that I've got a note. This is just called Joag Bits. [00:36:44] Speaker B: Yes. And I have a list on mine as well. So I considered yeah. Being like, tell me a lighthouse. [00:36:52] Speaker A: Marco, can I just read you some of these? [00:36:55] Speaker B: Sure. [00:36:56] Speaker A: Because I have no idea what any of these are. Richard Swanson. No clue. [00:37:00] Speaker B: Okay, well, you can Google it later. [00:37:04] Speaker A: Prior generations, crises. What the could I have meant? [00:37:09] Speaker B: I feel like I get that one. Like, what. What was their version of whatever the. We're doing now? [00:37:15] Speaker A: These do read a bit easy mode. End quote. What the. [00:37:18] Speaker B: Just I put it in easy mode. [00:37:20] Speaker A: Easy mode. [00:37:21] Speaker B: That's the whole. [00:37:22] Speaker A: That's the note. [00:37:23] Speaker B: These all definitely read like sleep notes. [00:37:26] Speaker A: Not. These are all stuff. Because I'll see something and I'll be like, I've got to put that. [00:37:31] Speaker B: But you don't give yourself enough context. [00:37:33] Speaker A: But I. I put no context, methinks. Wankers. Oh, I know what that is. And I don't know why I would put this on Joag, but fuck, man, I hate people who say methinks on social media. [00:37:44] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. No, it's like. It's a big red flag. [00:37:47] Speaker A: Yeah, completely. Let me see, what else? [00:37:49] Speaker B: It's the kind of thing that the guy that you think the Mistorian is would say. [00:37:53] Speaker A: That is exactly it. Because that's not a word you would ever use in any other fucking interaction ever. You wouldn't go to, like, petrol station, be like, oh, yeah, pump number 12 and fucking 20 marble lights please me things. Prick. What makes you think it's fucking cool to bust that out on. On social media? Get off my timeline. [00:38:15] Speaker B: You know, I'm always fascinated by, like, things that, like, are kind of acknowledged as social faux pas. Like that and, like, that entire personality. Right. Like the kind of person who says me thinks and wears a fedora and has, like a neck beard. Like, things like that. That, like, socially it's like, well known that people react poorly to them and yet folks choose to, like, take on that identity. [00:38:44] Speaker A: I'm starting to. It's starting to return to me why I wrote this down now. Because methinks wankers on social media aren't necessarily all, like, Harry Knowles look alike wankers like that. They're just normal people who for some fucking reason think they can drop a me thinks in a. In a reply. Something. Something like a reform voter. Me thinks off you. Absolute dismal, deeply annoying. Let me see, what else. Shawcross Cannibal Seems like one I should go back to. [00:39:12] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I should revisit Italian extortion. Ooh, okay. [00:39:18] Speaker A: Lots of rich thematic material. Yeah, I won't. I won't read any more it. [00:39:22] Speaker B: Because I wouldn't want to spoil anything. [00:39:24] Speaker A: But what I'm saying is we got jogs for years. [00:39:27] Speaker B: Oh, my list is so long. [00:39:31] Speaker A: I'll delete methinks wankers because I've done that now. [00:39:34] Speaker B: Yeah, now. Now we've addressed it. I've. I've also got. You know, there's several people that, like, this year, we have not been a very guesty podcast. We've just kind of been, like, shooting the shit a lot. [00:39:49] Speaker A: Right, Let me write that down because I've got us two guests. [00:39:52] Speaker B: Yeah. And I have several as well. So I think once we, like, hit the new year, we're gonna have some really fun people. [00:40:00] Speaker A: One of whom is awesome. One of whom. Well, one of whom. No, no, no. Not to wanna sell them short. They're both gonna be fucking great. Right. But one of them in particular I'm super looking forward to, you know, like, in the same way. Remember when I went to that spiritualist? [00:40:17] Speaker B: Mm. [00:40:18] Speaker A: Right. Yeah, I've got a guest lined up who. Who writes actual books on the paranormal. [00:40:28] Speaker B: In like a 1408 way or in, like, a way. [00:40:32] Speaker A: Does, like, ghost hunts, does, like, ghosts. [00:40:34] Speaker B: So, like, a believer. [00:40:36] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. [00:40:37] Speaker B: Okay. [00:40:38] Speaker A: And he's a colleague. He's a guy I work with, and I've. And I've asked him to come on, and I've said, look. [00:40:43] Speaker B: Yeah, you've already told him, right? [00:40:44] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, completely, completely. And he said, yeah, just drop me a line anytime. [00:40:48] Speaker B: Awesome. [00:40:49] Speaker A: And he's all queued up. He knows that you and I are a couple of heathens who believe in nothing, and we'll probably question him a little bit about it, but in the spirit of, you know, openness and conversation, and he's like, yeah, yeah, no sweat. Very chill guy. [00:41:01] Speaker B: Listen, we've had, you know, Leanne come on here and talk about tarot, which neither of us believe in. And even then, we managed to get something good from that conversation. So, you know, it'll. That'll be interesting. So, yeah, we're gonna have. Gonna have four some folks visit us in the new year. And I'm very excited about that whole. [00:41:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Or even before. I want to get. I want to get this guy on before that. I want to get this going soon. It's November. You know what I mean? We've got plenty of time, I think. [00:41:28] Speaker B: Do we? You say that, and then it's gonna be like Christmas, and you're gonna be like. [00:41:34] Speaker A: That's true. I'm not. I'm not feeling the darkness yet, by the way. [00:41:39] Speaker B: Yeah, you're not. Oh, like as in, like, your internal dark. I feel like it usually hits, like, January. [00:41:45] Speaker A: Yeah, well, of course. [00:41:47] Speaker B: So that's when we. We gotta be darkness. Yeah. [00:41:51] Speaker A: I tend to get. I, I, you know, I tend to go a little bit. I get a little bit low, low, low, low, low, low, low, low. When it gets really dark in winter. Winter. But so far, so good. [00:42:06] Speaker B: That's good. Yeah. [00:42:07] Speaker A: Yes. I'm showing the up when it comes to the physical exercise. Oh, I'm doing all the right things, man. [00:42:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:14] Speaker A: I was at the gym yesterday, so I'm. I'm doing everything I can. I'm nailing the proverbial boards up against the window of my mental health, you know what I mean? [00:42:26] Speaker B: This is the year. This is the year the Griblies will be at bay. They'll be peering through the slats, you know, exactly their little thingies in. [00:42:34] Speaker A: But I've laid the kind of the salt circle outside the fucking house, you Know what I mean? I've said my incantations. I've got my garlic necklace on. Yeah. [00:42:43] Speaker B: You see the guns on this guy right now, friends? I mean. [00:42:46] Speaker A: Oh, is that right? [00:42:48] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, fucking hell. Yeah, I know right now that you're flexing too. Good grief. Trust me on this. Big old guns to fight the griblies. So. Feeling very good about that. [00:43:03] Speaker A: There's another line here. Medical hoaxes and grifts. That would be good. I'll do that. [00:43:07] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, there was one. I was. Oh, man, did I write it down. Because earlier today I was trying to remember if we'd done one or not, and I was like, we might have to put it to the listeners who have. Oh, yeah. I'm like, I don't even know how I'd look this up in our records. So I feel like, hey, if you're one of the people who has actively listened to the whole backlog of this podcast. [00:43:33] Speaker A: Yep. [00:43:34] Speaker B: Have we talked about podcasts that have solved crimes? [00:43:38] Speaker A: We must have. That's like year one shit there, surely. [00:43:42] Speaker B: I don't know. I. I mean, do you. Do you remember the one about the girl in San Luis Obispo who went to Cal Poly? Or do you remember the one about the teacher's pet? The one with. In Australia about the teachers who are all sleeping with the students? Yeah. [00:44:01] Speaker A: See, point taken. [00:44:04] Speaker B: Given you often don't remember the things I say to you, but just anyone out there, have we done this already? Because there's a. I am fascinated by how many podcasts, you know, podcasters, especially true crime podcasters, get, like a lot of shit. Right. But there are a handful that actively have caused investigations to be reopened after decades, and then people, like, get justice as a result. [00:44:36] Speaker A: You're right that the kind of podcast investigation community has a rough rep. Yeah. [00:44:44] Speaker B: And they've earned it. Largely to be fair. [00:44:47] Speaker A: But not always. But from. From a. From a certain perspective, it's like free, open source investigation resource, isn't it? [00:44:57] Speaker B: Yeah, done. If done right, then it absolutely can be a resource. The problem is that most are not. But there are some podcasters out there who genuinely, you know, just sort of uncover things and go about this research in ways that, you know, ends up being really valuable and find stuff that, you know, the cops never did or follow leads they didn't have, talk to. [00:45:21] Speaker A: People places the cops couldn't. [00:45:23] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. Like things that there were maybe restrictions around people who wouldn't talk to them, stuff like that. They end up getting that information later on. So. [00:45:32] Speaker A: Yeah, I think he's the world's greatest detective. [00:45:36] Speaker B: Obviously, if Batman had a podcast. [00:45:40] Speaker A: Oh, no. [00:45:43] Speaker B: I'm sure somebody's done that storyline at this point. But yeah, so let me know. Friends, have we already talked about that? Because I would like to discuss it if we have not done that. And then you'll get some good podcast wrecks out of that. We've been getting a lot of questions about that. Yeah. Hannah, you've listened through these twice. Have we done this yet? Yeah, I've been getting asked a lot for podcast recommendations lately that I feel like I'm like, even I'm a little. [00:46:11] Speaker A: Oh, weren't you on. Didn't you do a guest slot this week? [00:46:13] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh, thank you for reminding me. Completely forgot. Yeah, good one. My friend Sophia invited me to be on her podcast, the Crumbling. [00:46:24] Speaker A: How do you know this, Sophia? [00:46:26] Speaker B: From the blue skies. [00:46:28] Speaker A: Oh, nice. [00:46:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:29] Speaker A: Okay. [00:46:30] Speaker B: So, you know, we've been chatting and whatnot, and it sort of came up over time, you know, my loathing of the Warrens and that kind of thing. And so for there, they often do a lot of, like, political topics and things like that. Not entirely, but, you know, they wanted for their Halloween episode to do like, a spooky angle. Except, you know, of course, she was like, I would love. They refer to her as like the. The Connecticut. Connecticut expert. A Connecticut enthusiast or something like that. She knows a lot about the state of Connecticut, which is where the Warrens are from. So she was like, do you want to be on and talk about why the Warrens are trash? I was like, oh, dear friend. Yes. [00:47:17] Speaker A: That doesn't sound like an opportunity you. [00:47:19] Speaker B: Would want to know. Yeah, come on. Of the week sometimes. [00:47:25] Speaker A: Well, if you're listening, Sophia, a big jack of all graves. Hello to you this week. Yes, this episode is for you and you alone. [00:47:32] Speaker B: Hear, hear. But yeah, so go listen to the Crumbling. Obviously, we've talked about the Warrens before on here, but, you know, it's. Listen any opportunity to listen to or speak to people about the terribleness of that couple. Especially since there is a recent conjuring movie. You know, you might want to remind yourself of why you hate these people. Go listen to the Crumbling. It's a blast. The podcast is a blast. Generally. It's also, like, much shorter than ours. So one of the things I like about the Crumbling is that I can listen to an episode while on a walk, which the vast majority of mine I can't. [00:48:15] Speaker A: So don't ask me why, but for some reason, I was looking at podcasts stats. Oh, it was at work, actually. I'm, I'm. I'm trying to get a learning and development podcast up and running in work. And I was looking at like attraction, information and, and statistics and just like 80 odd percent of the most successful podcasts are way shorter than us. So I don't know if we want to address that or what. [00:48:42] Speaker B: No, because we are not trying to become a more popular podcast than we already are. [00:48:47] Speaker A: We're not, Right? [00:48:48] Speaker B: No, if that was our priority. Yeah, there's probably a few things we could do differently, like focus for like 30 seconds on something perhaps. But no, we will not be taking such suggestions because we're just here to talk to our friends. But go listen to the crumbling. It was a blast and it was lovely to. For them to have me made. A nice little new posse of homies there. And hopefully we'll get Sophia on here at some point as well. [00:49:23] Speaker A: I would love that. [00:49:24] Speaker B: Great. Yes. [00:49:25] Speaker A: Excellent. All right, good, let's. As you'll know from last week's, I'm in the middle of a shitty, shitty fucking spell of movies, but I've kind of broken that this week. [00:49:40] Speaker B: Oh, by the way, can I just say, before we go into that, listen, I hope you all had a wonderful Halloween. I just want to point out I had the best Halloween. [00:49:49] Speaker A: What a great, great, great thing to say. [00:49:51] Speaker B: I just want people to know I had a great Halloween. I. This year was like, we never get trickortreaters in our cul de sac. It makes me sad, but my response to this has been buy big candy. And I amassed. Like, I got PEZ dispensers, I got Pop Rocks to give away. Yeah, right? [00:50:17] Speaker A: Wow. [00:50:17] Speaker B: Yeah. I was like, you know, the. At least I've told my neighbors to come over, so at least we will get like seven children who will come and enjoy these things. I bought Play doh, like every go crazy. You know, and so, you know, Keo set up the screen on the porch so you could see the, the movie from the front yard as we've been doing for the past 16 years, everywhere that we've lived, you got the projector going, we got our spooky things on the lawn, the whole deal, like all the way in. And I sat on the porch in my hoodie because it was cold and watched movies and kids started coming. And then the next thing I know, like, we're actually running low on all of the treasures that I bought. So then I ran to the corner store and spent like another 40 bucks, like, snatching up anything good they had in there. You know, blow pops and. And like all these different things that kids love. Sour straws, blah, blah, blah. Kids were coming through at the end of the night. Finally, the last people to come through nearly 10 o' clock were my neighbors from down the street. And they came up and the. The older girl is probably like 5,6ish, and her little brother is like 3 or 4 and he kind of toddles up and he just kind of takes something and walks away, you know. And then she's like, she's like so stoked. And she's. I'm like, take two things, you know, and she's like, okay. And so she picks out immediately a thing that she wants. And then she's like, got a decision to make. And so then she consults with me. She's like, well, what do you think I should put back? You know? And I'm like, oh, good question. Like, well, do you like sour things? She's like, oh, not really. And I'm like, okay, well, you don't like those then those are really sour. She puts that back. She's like, okay, I think I want this. Oh, but I want that too. And I'm like, you know what, I don't think anyone else is coming. You go ahead and take the other thing. And she like, her mom sent me a message the next day and was like, she was so excited. She said you guys were so nice and you complimented her costume and blah, blah, blah. [00:52:23] Speaker A: And I was like, her costume? What would she dress? [00:52:25] Speaker B: I don't even remember at this point. There were a lot of kids that came through, surprisingly. But it was just. That is all I want is all these. There's another girl. Yeah, this girl who's like, probably like 7 or 8 years old, who walks up and she comes in and she sees the big bowl of like treasure and she kind of looks around all the decorations. She goes, wow, so this is your place. What child says things like this? It was just all the way through. Just. This is exactly what I love about Halloween. You know, just sitting there making kids happy by giving them stuff that they like. And, you know, it was. Yeah, perfect. Watching my scary movies. Well, not scary movies, kid friendly scary movies. [00:53:12] Speaker A: Watch like that, like that as Corrigan a Halloween as it's possible. Just perfect. [00:53:18] Speaker B: Right? Beautiful stuff. [00:53:21] Speaker A: Delighted to. To, yeah, to talk about this. This dry spell of movies. Right? [00:53:28] Speaker B: Yes. [00:53:29] Speaker A: I'll open here, if I may, with a real problem. [00:53:34] Speaker B: Okay, hit me. [00:53:37] Speaker A: This is, this is a real problem. Now. I think, I think this week I saw a movie which marked a Big leap forward into the problem. [00:53:49] Speaker B: Okay. [00:53:50] Speaker A: It's getting worse. I mean, this time a year or 18 months ago, we were. We kind of went round and round in circles about an AI piece of AI art in Late Night with the Devil. Last week, I switched off VHS Halloween because it was shit. But there was also just no end of AI background artwork, just like there was in Strange Harvest. Is that what it was called? [00:54:16] Speaker B: Strange Harvest? Yep. [00:54:17] Speaker A: AI artwork on the walls, just like there was in that fucking risible season of True Detective. That was last year. For what feels like at least a year, we've seen, you know, we've measured which way the wind is blowing with AI. [00:54:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:33] Speaker A: Art in movies, still images in the background of scenes used as interstitial kind of transitional pieces. But there was a big step forward this week in the problem. Getting worse in that I saw a movie called Coyotes. [00:54:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:54] Speaker A: Now, hear ye of Coyotes, have ye? [00:54:57] Speaker B: I didn't realize until I looked at the letterboxd that I had heard of it. And unfortunately, I had been really rooting for this movie because I like Justin Long and I. I love him and Kate Bosworth together. And I was excited that they were making a movie together and that he was producing it. I was like, yes, I am for this. [00:55:16] Speaker A: Yeah. Just as an interlude, who do I always confuse Justin Long with? Who's the one with the face? Will Poulter? For some reason in my head, those two are synaptically linked up. They both fire the same kind of neurochemical. [00:55:30] Speaker B: Huh. [00:55:31] Speaker A: I don't know why. I don't know. [00:55:32] Speaker B: That's very interesting. [00:55:33] Speaker A: Anyway. Anyway, it becomes very quickly apparent when you're watching coyotes, a few things become very clear quite quickly. Number one, it's. Anyway, right. This is not a good film. It's. You know. But it would have been a whole lot easier to watch had number two, not come into. Clear Into. Into. Into focus so quickly. In that the coyotes themselves, the titular coyotes, the gribblies of the film, heavily, heavily use A.I. [00:56:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:03] Speaker A: Right. [00:56:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:05] Speaker A: No shot of these monsters is longer than like three or four seconds. Right. And so similarly timed are all the shots of the coyotes. You wonder, is it because they hit the limit on how long the things. [00:56:21] Speaker B: They could generate were or just that they wanted. If you show more of it, people become more aware. It's like the Jaws rule, right? Like, you don't see Bruce the shark all that much, because if you saw more of him, you'd be like, oh, that looks janky. [00:56:36] Speaker A: Very possibly, Very possibly. But for whatever, every shot of the Coat feels like exactly the same length and with exactly the same kind of fluid, weird motions. The hair is inconsistent, the teeth are inconsistent. They just look like they. They look like what they are. They look like AI generated loops. [00:56:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:58] Speaker A: Of what a coyote, what a computer thinks a coyote looks like. It's stolen 80,000 images and given you a three second visual of one walking down the street. [00:57:10] Speaker B: Yeah. I saw someone trying to do the thing where you see a lot of people trying to push back now by going, well, you know, it could just be like bad CGI or whatever. Like people are just calling things AI willy nilly. And someone pointed out they were like, if it were bad cgi, it would have meant they had to individually render these inconsistencies in here because the model would not have had changing teeth and things like that. Right. Like, that's not how CGI works. So this is distinctly the kinds of problems that AI has, not a human doing a rushed job of cgi. [00:57:53] Speaker A: So what is, what happens now? [00:57:57] Speaker B: I mean, I think the interesting thing, another thing someone pointed out about this is that, like, people are reacting badly to AI being used in things. You know, the public opinion of AI, even though people are using it, is bad. [00:58:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:58:14] Speaker B: Overall, that seems to be what people are finding. And even more so all the time. I found it fascinating that more and more I've noticed this in like very normie spaces, like Facebook reels and stuff like that, that when people post AI garbage on there, the, the comments which used to largely, you know, enjoy these things, are now really turning against it. People are going, this is AI slop. And you know, all that stuff in response. And so I think, like, the negative response that stuff like this is getting, especially because horror seems to be where it's being tested, you know, like, and horror fans are going, absolutely not. Fuck you. It's not going to be profitable for, you know, I think there's going to be plenty of, like, you're like, what's the, the pooniverse type? Things and stuff will probably start using AI. [00:59:08] Speaker A: Oh, man. [00:59:09] Speaker B: But yes, like, from stuff like what Justin Long is doing, I think that very quickly, anyone who wants to, like, get real eyes or theatrical release on things, stuff like that is gonna have to weigh whether audiences are gonna reject it outright. [00:59:26] Speaker A: Yeah, that's, that's what I'm very interested to see is, does the bottom line. Does it impact the bottom line through A, having to hire less creatives? [00:59:37] Speaker B: Mm. [00:59:38] Speaker A: And B, how many eyes are you driving away from your product? [00:59:43] Speaker B: Yeah. What's the balance? [00:59:45] Speaker A: I guess Coyotes is a kind of a canary in the coal mine, isn't it? It's kind of a thumb in the air. I view it as an experiment more than anything else. [00:59:56] Speaker B: And it shows that people reject the idea that it's a way to get around a low budget, you know, because that's a lot of, oh, this is, it's democratizing. People who couldn't afford to make, you know, get big CGI effects and things like that, like, indie filmmakers will be able to do more with it. And it shows that people are not accepting that as a thing. So, I don't know, it's interesting to see. I mean, I saw a thing earlier today that was saying that Nvidia is like 16% of the US economy right now. [01:00:32] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [01:00:33] Speaker B: Right? Like, that is dire. [01:00:38] Speaker A: Talk about a bubble, man. [01:00:39] Speaker B: Yeah, that's fucking crazy. And so we're in this weird position where our economy is counting on the success of AI and our society is rejecting AI at the same time. And, you know, where do we go from there? [01:01:04] Speaker A: So interesting. [01:01:05] Speaker B: Oh, which reminds me too, just as a brief thing, I, I, I'll probably link to this on my blue sky. I don't know, maybe I'll put it in the show notes as well. But the video that I was watching right before starting this was a YouTube video. And I can't think of what the. I think his name's Eddie Brubeck or something like that. He's a YouTuber that people probably would recognize. But he basically decided as an experiment to, after hearing about all this AI psychosis stuff, to see basically how easy or difficult it would be to get the AI to lead him into psychosis. And essentially, you know, it happened fast. Not as in he actually experienced this, but that it did the things that it is that is happening to other people. So basically it latched on to some. He put a drawing in that, like, he pretended was from when he was a child that was predicting the iPhone 16 or something like that. Right. And then this thing was like, you were a genius baby. Basically, you were the smartest child born in 1996. And it runs with this to then basically telling him to isolate himself, to make sure that he doesn't talk to any other human beings because they're all out to, like, you know, stop him from becoming brilliant, you know, and all this stuff. It is incredible. And just. Yeah, it took so little for it to go from, like, innocuous conversation or whatever to like, leave your friends and family and go live in a trailer in Bakersfield, you know. It just. You're the most brilliant person on earth and it's important to protect the this, I love that. Yeah, it's fucking crazy. So I'll link it in the show notes. It's a pretty interesting watch. [01:02:59] Speaker A: Yeah, please. [01:03:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:03:01] Speaker A: Nice. [01:03:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:03:02] Speaker A: So otherwise pretty cool future coming up, huh? [01:03:05] Speaker B: Yeah, it's very neat. Really enjoying it. What else have you watched other than coyotes? [01:03:12] Speaker A: Well, as part of boy off Halloween 2025, which we all did collectively. Like I said, I can't remember if we were recording or not, but it was pissing it down with rain. Yeah, I wasn't feeling it. Laura didn't really give a fuck. The boys had scouts. So what we did was we just absolutely gorged our fucking faces on fun sized Mars bars and Snickers and whatever and Owen gave me free reign to put a film on. I know I said a couple of weeks back that Peter asked me to shit him up. We didn't get chance to do that. But we will, we will. And I'll report back. [01:03:44] Speaker B: Sure. [01:03:45] Speaker A: But my choice for Owen and I was army of Darkness because I thought that a kind of a sweet spot. [01:03:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:03:53] Speaker A: For an 11 year old. [01:03:54] Speaker B: It's, Yeah. I think of army of Darkness as a kids movie, to be honest. [01:03:57] Speaker A: Oh, it is, it is actually. Yeah, it is completely. There's nothing challenging. [01:04:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:04:05] Speaker A: I thought it was landing well with him and he was laughing in all the right places. But I not the sum total, the sum of its parts. I don't think he was all that into it. I think it was a little too goofy for him because it is super goofy. It's goofier than friends. If you've seen army of Darkness recently and you think, or if you haven't seen it recently and you think you know how goofy it is. Goofy. Okay, so he wasn't hellaciously goofy. Like it. What time and place does it, does this movie happen in? Where in England? Who are these people? What, what historical peers? Aspen. Like his shotgun appears out of nowhere in a couple of scenes. Like he, he clearly has not got his shotgun. And then in the next scene he's merely just, you know, blasting Deadites away. I, I, it still gets a four from me because it is still massively charming and it's still a part of the best, you know, hit for hit franchise out there. Evil Dead never misses it has never missed. But from a 2025 through a 2025 lens. And many is the time I've expressed wonderment at how movies reach it, reach the screen in a janky condition. What with, you know, checkpoints and test audiences and investor feedback and notes and whatever. And army and Darkness is one of those. I can't quite square away how it made it onto the screen in the condition it did. Sure, I'm. The lot has been written about army of Darkness's troubled gestation. Wasn't an easy time making that movie, by all accounts. But the. Just the sheer number of versions that exist, the number of cuts. The version I saw was the. We watched the theatrical. USA theatrical release. Right. [01:06:03] Speaker B: Okay. [01:06:04] Speaker A: And it's fucking. It's like 10 minutes shorter than the European version. [01:06:09] Speaker B: Oh, interesting. [01:06:11] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. You know, lines I was all queued up to expect, weren't there? There's alternate takes in there from the version that I know. Yeah. So I enjoyed it as a history lesson and as a. You know, I love. I love my different kind of take cuts of movies and compare them against different regions and territories. [01:06:33] Speaker B: I know you're about to have, like, a big opportunity to do that. [01:06:37] Speaker A: My God, I'm. We'll talk about that when it arrives. [01:06:41] Speaker B: Okay, fair enough. [01:06:45] Speaker A: I'll. Fuck it. I'll talk about briefing now. It's too good. A documentary has been released by. I can't even remember what they're called. Do you remember what the studio called? [01:06:55] Speaker B: No. Yeah, this was. I think it was my first time ever hearing of it when you sent me this. [01:06:59] Speaker A: Here we go. A documentary called Chain Reactions, Right. Which has been released by Dark Sky Films. And it interviews some really fucking great creators. Patton Oswalt, Takeshi, Miguel, Stephen King, a few others. Alexandra, Helen, Nicholas. Not sure who that is. Karen Kusama. I don't know who they are. [01:07:19] Speaker B: Oh, Karen Kusuma. She. Oh, gosh, what did she do? You would know her movies for sure. [01:07:25] Speaker A: Okay, okay. But it's all about how those creators were impacted by Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Right? [01:07:31] Speaker B: Nice. [01:07:33] Speaker A: Fantastic even. That in and of itself would be amazing. But it's getting a home release in December, right? It's getting a home release in December. And the. It's a three fucking disc edition. On the first disc is the documentary itself. And the other two discs are full of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 8 separate versions of Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Eight different fucking releases. And I'm gonna list them all because this is bonkers. [01:08:07] Speaker B: It's really bonkers. [01:08:09] Speaker A: There's the 16 millimeter overscan print, wherever that is. There's the 1981 Wizard Video VHS cut. There's a 16 millimeter barbecue edition. Don't know what that is. There's a 1987 Czech VHS cut. There's a 1980s Slovakian Betamax version of Texas without subtitles. [01:08:30] Speaker B: Amazing, right? [01:08:32] Speaker A: There's an Australian VHS version. There's a 35 millimeter print. The fucking two discs worth of 1, 2, 3, 4, 8 versions of Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and I'm gonna fucking watch them all. It isn't releasing here in the uk, so I've ordered it to be sent to your address. And I'm really, really just super grateful that you've done this for me. [01:08:53] Speaker B: I got you. [01:08:55] Speaker A: I'm gonna fuck. I'm gonna watch them all. [01:08:58] Speaker B: I don't give a shit. Excited? I think this is gonna have to be like a snack or something on Kofi Marco reviews eight versions of Texas Chainsaw Massacre. [01:09:10] Speaker A: I mean, what a love letter. [01:09:12] Speaker B: You couldn't. [01:09:13] Speaker A: Could you do that with any other film? I don't think so. Maybe the Shining. [01:09:18] Speaker B: What, get eight random cuts of it? [01:09:21] Speaker A: But the thing is, I don't think they're random. [01:09:23] Speaker B: Sure. [01:09:25] Speaker A: It. I think it speaks to the kind of notoriety and the impact that Texas made its way to fucking Betamax in Slovakia in the 80s, that there was a hunger for it out there. For an Australian fucking VHS dump. [01:09:42] Speaker B: The Australians were into Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I've seen Australian movies. [01:09:46] Speaker A: I bet they fucking were, you dirty boss. Bollocks. Yeah, again, this is a package that was made for me. So definitely I will cross the world's mail and shipping networks to get it right. My filthy hands. [01:10:03] Speaker B: It's a beautiful thing. [01:10:05] Speaker A: Yes, very cool. Let me see. I could go on. Let me see. What else have I seen? I will talk briefly on. Okay, let's talk about a documentary. So yesterday morning, okay. Made me cry. Brought tears to my eyes. Actually. Actually brought tears to my eyes and a lump to my throat. I've talked about Chris CV before, A guy better known in the UK as Frank Sidebottom. This is a documentary entirely crowdfunded about him and his life. Let me think. I mean, it is very detailed. It's a wonderful kind of snapshot of Britain of the 80s and 90s. In particular, the north of Britain, Manchester, Cheshire, that kind of region. And into this in the late 70s 80s, we see Chris CV, a musician starts a band with his friends the Freshies. A Beatles obsessive, has a kind of some studio interest in the. In the early part of his career. But nothing that they do quite catches the mainstream attention that Chris is so desperate for. And when I say desperate, this documentary paints the picture of a man who is singularly certain that his art is destined for a wider audience. He is so convinced, unshakable conviction. His future, as you know, as a mainstream major recording artist is a given for him. Relentlessly prolific, always writing, always recording. Innovative, moving into kind of homemade video at the time, which was a nascent art form, self publishing, making his own stuff, his own fanzines, his own little TV shows, his own newsletters, you know, a fantastic parent, idiosyncratic, unusual, eccentric. Until the turning point comes where, as almost as a publicity stunt for one of the gigs of his band, the Freshies, he puts on the flyers featuring an appearance by Frank Sidebottom, who was a character that he'd created, who was almost going to be set up as like an obsessive fan of the band, like a stalker, a super fan. But it's Frank that gets all the attention, right? It's Frank with his big fucking stupid papier mache head and his suit and his nasal kind of voice. It's Frank that catches the public consciousness. So the documentary then goes on to tell this tale of Chris as the word prolific doesn't even come close. Boxes, flats, tapes, notebooks, stacks and stacks of material in character as Frank just grinding, grinding, grinding away to make a name for himself and a profile and to bring his art to the masses in a way that he still clearly was convinced was in his future. He was fucking. He knew that he was going towards this mass market moment for his art and it was just too fucking strange. Nobody, right, Frank Sidebottom and the Freshies were never going to make the mainstream. They were so niche. But that didn't stop Chris, didn't stop him. Even in the face of alcoholism and, you know, drug use. And the fucking guy was flawed as fuck, right? But never, ever, ever stopped creating in whatever fucking medium you could put in front of him. He was in comics, he was on local tv, he was on radio, he was on music, he was on stage. He was in tiny rooms above pubs, he was on the street, he was in supermarkets, everywhere as Frank. And the kind of, the duality of his personality is so beautifully illustrated in this documentary. There's a. There's a little bit in the middle where a couple of people knew him. Johnny Vegas, for one. The comedian Mark Radcliffe, the dj, Jon Ronson, the author. [01:14:36] Speaker B: I know who that is. Yeah. [01:14:38] Speaker A: All of whom were in Chris's orbit and part of his band and part of his. The kind of circuit at the time. And a few of them talk about kind of how interesting it is, I mean, where, you know, when he was in character as Frank, how much of that was Chris? And where was the kind of delineation between the voice Until Mark Radcliffe just punctures that all with a quote. He goes, well, it's easy really. When he put the head on, he was Frank. When he took it off, it was Chris. Simple as that, really. That easy. And looking back, it's tempting to armchair diagnose this fella with a lot going on. Just the obsessive work rate that he put into his life. Always, always, always just pieces of art that were like a throwaway. Like 80 quid for, for a page in a magazine. He would stay up all night, right, Making sure it was perfect. There's a fantastic story about how in a, in a, in a magazine he put his home phone number as the Frank Sidebottom fan hotline. Like his fucking home number. Just being pestered at all hours for months at a time with people ringing up to speak to Frank. And to every single person who rang he'd go, oh yeah, I'll just go and get him now and then put the voice on, you know. [01:15:52] Speaker B: Mm. [01:15:54] Speaker A: Ah, it is until of course, inevitably his death from cancer and absolute destitute. He couldn't even afford his a funeral, right? He died a pauper. He died absolutely penniless. I fell up to talk about it because it's such a touching story for me until word gets around on social media and they try to crowdfund his funeral and thousands and thousands and thousands of pounds pour in. Is a statue of him and his in, in Frank's town of Timperley in Cheshire. [01:16:30] Speaker B: Nice. [01:16:31] Speaker A: This documentary was crowdfunded. And he is, he is recognized as the most, one of the most singular voices in outsider art this, this country has ever produced. Ever. But almost largely unrecognized in his own lifetime. [01:16:50] Speaker B: Right. Yeah, totally. [01:16:51] Speaker A: If you, if, if you knew, you knew, right? And I, I, I kind of. Frank Cybotom was in my, properly in my lens as a kid growing up. I, I would read on comic that he wrote for. He was, he was a face and a voice that I knew growing up. So, so to, to, to sketch out finally the bloke behind that absolute head scratching moment in British culture. Just, he was always there on the fringes, like on a late night TV show or in a fucking magazine or, you know, being interviewed somewhere. Frank, Frank's like, what the fuck? Like such a strange character. [01:17:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:17:32] Speaker A: And it's, it's incredible that the, the man was every bit, he lives up to that weird fucking enigmatic Character that, that. That was always there on the fringes of British pop culture as a kid. [01:17:46] Speaker B: So. Being Frank. [01:17:48] Speaker A: Being Frank. It is a wonderful documentary. It, it's. It's absolute five star shit. This is. There's never been anyone like this character that I can remember. [01:17:59] Speaker B: I know that you've made it clear that the movie is nothing like him, but I do love the movie. [01:18:03] Speaker A: He has no bearing at all. Nothing like him. But the documentary is, is phenomenal. It really, it's. It's a moment in time and the word unique and genius are over overused, but this is an absolute picture of genius that exists in the margins and in the footnotes, you know, deeply, deeply touching, deeply affecting. To me at least. [01:18:28] Speaker B: I'll have to check that out for sure. [01:18:30] Speaker A: Yeah, you'd love it. [01:18:31] Speaker B: Is that on the plex? [01:18:33] Speaker A: It is. [01:18:33] Speaker B: Oh, good. I will definitely watch it. I did not watch anything that touching, I don't think. Staying in my Halloween spookies this week, watching, of course, the 2003 Haunted Mansion with Eddie Murphy and the Muppets. Haunted Mansion, which they aired at the. So there's this weird spot downtown or on Bloomfield Avenue called Lackawanna Station, and it used to be a train station. And they've struggled to figure out what to do with it since then. And then a developer bought it and part of the deal was that he's supposed to like put a grocery store in there because this is a food desert. There are no grocery stores in Montclair, except for a Whole Foods down, down the way. So, you know, there's all this stuff to it and it's hung up in legislation and whatnot. So in the meantime, while it's going through all this, you know, these legal battles and whatnot, they've turned it into this like, weird little like flea market situation, like with these little shops that are all in there. They're like never open. There's like three restaurants in it also never open. There's a donut shop that sells donuts for a dollar. There's a Popeyes. And then this big room that like people have probably seen on TikTok because this has like gone somewhat viral. It's a room full of like murals all painted by different artists. And like, amongst them I know I've seen pop up in reels and stuff like that is like this big mural of Tony Soprano. There's one of Walter Wal White in there, like, so it's. They've been trying to make it into like this space where it's like, oh, it's Like, a community space. We do things in here, but, like, because, like, you never know if something's going to be open or not in there. Like, nobody goes there. So the other day, my friend Melanie was like, they're doing Muppets Haunted Mansion at Lackawanna Station. Let's go. And we all show up, and we are the only people there. It's, like, me, Melanie Keough, and two other friends. And there, like, is a guy. It's in this huge room, and the room is so big that the sound from the inflatable screen, like, the, like, fan that holds it up, is just, like, echoing. Plus, there's a guy, like, working on one of the murals in, like, one of those scissor lifts. And every time he goes up and down, it's like, beep, beep, beep, beep. [01:20:56] Speaker A: So we're like, just like the Muppets would have wanted. [01:20:58] Speaker B: Just like the Muppets would have wanted. It was. There was no food. Nothing was open, even though it was during operating hours. And the, like, thing online was, like, come and eat at one of our eateries. Well, it was like, nothing is open except the donut place. And so we had to go to the, like, the barbecue place next door. That's terrible. Has, like, the blandest food I've ever had in my life. And so we're like, fine. We bought our overpriced barbecue and came back and. And watched like, that. But I still. I love Muppets Haunted Mansion. It is, like, my two favorite Muppets are Gonzo and Pepe, and they are the lead. [01:21:36] Speaker A: I'm so glad you said Pepe. I have a lot of time for Pepe. [01:21:39] Speaker B: I love Pepe. Your brother referred to him as, like, the. The sex pest prawn or something. [01:21:45] Speaker A: Called him a sex pest. [01:21:46] Speaker B: Yeah, he called him a sex pen. I was like, how. How dare you? I love Pepe. Young guy. [01:21:53] Speaker A: Shrimp by making braun. Okay. [01:21:57] Speaker B: Just. Oh, it's just my favorite. Yeah, those two are my favorite. And they're the. They're your guides through the haunt. [01:22:02] Speaker A: He's, like, a lat Muppet Pepe, isn't he? He's from, like, Muppets. [01:22:06] Speaker B: I mean, I feel like he's been around my whole life, but, like, what was it called? [01:22:11] Speaker A: Muppets Tonight. I think the show was where it was, like, after they'd been on hiatus for a while, right? [01:22:16] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's not, like, from many. [01:22:18] Speaker A: He's not og. [01:22:19] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is definitely true. But he's in Muppets From Space, which is one of my favorite Muppet movies. And. Yeah, so Muppets. Haunted Mansion is a mix of my two favorite Muppets being the leads of it. Great cameos from a lot of actors that I like. And Haunted Mansion is my favorite ride. And this, like, has so many in jokes from the actual ride that it's just. It's. Yeah, it's like. There's literally things that I know by heart from the ride that are, like, word for word in this movie. Yeah. Deep lore. And then, of course, I love the 2003 haunted mansion as well, which is. I love that they decided to. You know, Disney was like, let's make a movie based on a ride. And they made it about, like, racism and class inequality and toxic masculinity in 2003. And I am on board all the way. I just love it so much. I'm always looking for ghost stories. You know, this is why, when I was trying to think of, like, what did I want to read the other day, I did the Haunting of Hill House. Because I was like, I just. I want a ghost story. When I think of Halloween, I want ghosts. That's the. That's the specific brand of spooky that I want. So I quite enjoy that. [01:23:36] Speaker A: Very nice. [01:23:36] Speaker B: Very nice. [01:23:37] Speaker A: I don't know what it was. Just this year was a miss. [01:23:40] Speaker B: It happens. [01:23:41] Speaker A: Maybe we'll come back swinging in 2026, perhaps. [01:23:45] Speaker B: But also, you know, on Halloween, sitting on the porch. On the same note, watched Casper, you know, nice little friendly ghost that still makes me cry when he turns human and asks, can I keep you at the end? [01:23:58] Speaker A: I think I've seen it. [01:23:59] Speaker B: You've never seen Casper? Oh, man. Christina Ricci, Bill Pullman. It's. It's great. It's suitably sad, as I feel these kinds of things should be. And they, like, don't make sad movies for kids anymore. Yeah, this is. It's an emotional roller coaster dealing with death and the horrors therein, and I just fucking love it. And so, yes, at the end of the movie, like, she, like, Casper's had a crush on her this whole time, and she's like, you're a fucking ghost. Like, we can't. We can't date or whatever. And then he briefly becomes human at the end and is Devon Sawa. And it is. It's just so, so beautiful and sad. So Casper's always a good choice. Also, watch Death becomes her classic. A lot of fun. We watched that. I noticed when I looked, when I logged it the last time when we watched it together was like, two or three years and one day ago, like, October 29th or October 30th. Yeah. It's like, yes. [01:25:07] Speaker A: Every couple of years. [01:25:10] Speaker B: Ghost Ship had a hankering yesterday. [01:25:12] Speaker A: I saw Corey again. [01:25:15] Speaker B: Always. [01:25:16] Speaker A: Always. [01:25:17] Speaker B: That's like saying again to you watching Nightmare on Elm street or tcm. Yeah, yeah. [01:25:23] Speaker A: If there was a special edition with eight versions of Ghost Ship, you'd be. [01:25:27] Speaker B: Like, I'd be on top of it. Yeah. I actually did notice on Plex that there was, like, a few special features on it. And I was like, oh, I should check those out. I was also thinking, I was like, I would love, like, an oral history of Ghost Ship. Maybe I'll be the person who tracks them down and does an oral history of Ghost Ship. And then remember, Juliana Margulies is, like, a racist and the Isaiah Washington is a homophobe. And, you know, I think it just needs to be left alone. [01:25:57] Speaker A: But you're the person to do it. [01:26:00] Speaker B: I am the fan. Who would be the one to do that. Yes. [01:26:04] Speaker A: Just ignore those two. Just ignore those two. [01:26:06] Speaker B: Listen, get Carl Urban. Get Desmond Harrington would do it, I bet. [01:26:11] Speaker A: Or just next time you see Carl open at a con, just chat about it. There you go. [01:26:15] Speaker B: I don't do cons anymore, but, you know, yeah, maybe one of these days. [01:26:18] Speaker A: Is that because germs. [01:26:20] Speaker B: Just noise and people and low tolerance for any of that anymore. But, yeah, con crud sucks, too. I don't like getting sick, and every time Kia works a con, I hear about all the illness that goes around and don't want it. I'll pass. I. Oh, I watched over the garden wall, of course, as well, but also watched Good Boy, the haunted house movie from the perspective of the dog. [01:26:53] Speaker A: Okay. [01:26:54] Speaker B: And that dog is indeed a very good boy. [01:26:58] Speaker A: Good to hear. I've seen. I've seen several people reading it of late. [01:27:02] Speaker B: Yeah, I didn't even know it was a book, but now I do, so, you know, I think I'm glad I watched the movie first. I think I would have. I think that was the order. Now I'm like, I'm interested in reading the book, but I think if I'd done it the other way, maybe not as much. So, yeah, it's a. It's stressful and it has, as. I think it's unavoidable to say it does have sort of skinamarink vibes at times because you're looking at it from a dog's perspective and saying the whole. [01:27:34] Speaker A: Thing is dog pov. [01:27:36] Speaker B: It's not dog pov. Sometimes it is. [01:27:39] Speaker A: That's bold. That would be an in for me. That would be an angle for me. [01:27:42] Speaker B: Yeah, that'd probably be an out for me. At times it is literally through his eyes, but other times, you're looking at him and his reactions to things. And that dog. Listen, that dog is a better actor than anyone in some of the other movies that I've seen in the past year, so. No, it's a real dog. [01:27:59] Speaker A: No. [01:28:00] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a real dog. It's a very cute, very real dog. I can't remember what its name is, but, yeah, actual dog actor. And he is wonderful in it. But I spent the whole movie just scritching Walter's tummy out of stress. [01:28:16] Speaker A: I mean. And, you know, Justin Long can't get a single coyote, right? [01:28:22] Speaker B: A train coyote steal. Yeah. [01:28:25] Speaker A: Video of coyotes off the Internet. [01:28:27] Speaker B: There is some weirdo in the Hollywood Hills who trains them like, you know, like the family and. Nope. You know, there are people who have been doing this in show business since the 30s. You can find someone with a coyote for sure. [01:28:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:28:44] Speaker B: Yeah. And this is all with a trained dog who gives a great performance. And it's. And, you know, it's safe. The dog doesn't die or anything like that. He gets sad and stressed out sometimes. [01:28:58] Speaker A: I was gonna ask, is. Is it. Is the twist that the dog is the ghost? [01:29:02] Speaker B: No. [01:29:02] Speaker A: No, you'd expect that, wouldn't you? [01:29:04] Speaker B: Yeah, you would have seen that coming. But, yeah, Good boy. Is. Is a safe to watch for dog lovers. Aside from the fact that you'll be stressed out about seeing a dog. Sad. [01:29:18] Speaker A: Nice. Not one for me, I don't think. But I'm glad you enjoyed it. [01:29:22] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't know. You might. You might enjoy it. Yeah. I think there's things in, like, the filmmaking that you might appreciate and whatnot in it and to the story itself, but I don't know. I can't. Can't fully predict what you'd think of it, but I think. I don't know, I think you could appreciate it. [01:29:43] Speaker A: Well, I'll talk super briefly about a piece of shudder fodder that I. That I put on last night. You know those. You know those nights when it's too early to go to bed. [01:29:54] Speaker B: Mm. [01:29:55] Speaker A: And you can't quite countenance the thought of just scrolling for, like, 90 minutes. [01:30:01] Speaker B: Yeah. I gotta put something on. [01:30:04] Speaker A: Yeah. I've read the book. I've read my book for a little bit. It's either that or I'm gonna sit here and look at the carpet for 90 minutes. So I found myself on shudder scrolling for somebody to watch on Shredder. And I settled upon Anything for Jackson. [01:30:22] Speaker B: I think I've tried to watch that one a couple times, but haven't made it very far. I think I've just never been in the mood for it. [01:30:30] Speaker A: Fine. I get that because it's. It's got the same vibe as like an episode of something. It's like you've jumped in on a series mid episode. [01:30:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:30:40] Speaker A: It's got a very made for TV look and feel. [01:30:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:30:45] Speaker A: It's minimalist, it's stripped back. We've got like four, maybe five characters in the entire thing. And to sketch out the plot, I'll, I'll. It's a three star movie by the way. Right. Which is bang average. This is. This is con. Considering what I've been watching lately, three stars felt like four. [01:31:04] Speaker B: Okay. [01:31:05] Speaker A: You have an old couple. I say old kind of autumn years, 60s. And they kidnap a pregnant lady and hold her hostage in their home because they want to do a kind of spooky almost reverse exorcism and put their. The spirit of their dead grandchild into this woman's baby to bring him back to life. Right. [01:31:30] Speaker B: Okay. [01:31:31] Speaker A: And it's very spooky. It's got some really good scares in it. It's got like surprise scares where you think not like jump scares. No, no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying surprise scares where nothing's happened for about 20 minutes. Is this the tone of Whoa. Something will. There'll be a gribbly or some gore will happen. It. It feels quite well observed from an occult point of view. I bought into all the occultism. There's Satanism in there. There's spells, there's, you know, a 2000 year old spell book. I don't know, man. I thought I found a lot to enjoy here. Nothing to challenge. Right? [01:32:12] Speaker B: Sure. [01:32:12] Speaker A: But if, when you're. When you're deep into scrolling on shudder and if you've already seen Man Fish, obviously first priority. I. You could. You could. There, there are worse ways to spend 90 minutes than watching anything for Jackson. You might enjoy it a great deal. [01:32:30] Speaker B: Okay. Anything else? [01:32:34] Speaker A: Put that on the poster. You might enjoy it. [01:32:36] Speaker B: You might enjoy it if you. If you've already watched Manfish. [01:32:41] Speaker A: Yes. Man Fish first I could. You know, I. I think I got a date with Man Fish over this next couple weeks. I think I want to watch it again. If anybody's up for it. [01:32:50] Speaker B: Little watch along situation. [01:32:52] Speaker A: We could. That reminds me. I was thinking earlier on this week, we've got to put a. Let's play in the books. We've got to put a watch along in the books. For sure. [01:32:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:32:59] Speaker A: So sit tight. If there's anything you've been wanting to watch, chuck it our way. And maybe, true, maybe we'll get together and watch it. But that's it from us, I think safe to say. [01:33:08] Speaker B: I think so. Yeah. This is. I'm gonna. You know, probably. Well, it's. I always watch coco on either the 1st or 2nd of November. [01:33:20] Speaker A: Do you dare even say those two syllables? Cause I will cry at you. [01:33:27] Speaker B: Yep. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna cry and then go to sleep. That's my plan for the. For the evening. [01:33:34] Speaker A: Prove me wrong. The baddie from Coco, what's his name? Ernesto something or other. [01:33:39] Speaker B: Cruz. Right. Ernesto Cruz. [01:33:42] Speaker A: The biggest bastard in all of animation. [01:33:44] Speaker B: I know, right? Yes. [01:33:45] Speaker A: Such a terrible bad guy, murdering plagiarist bastard. [01:33:51] Speaker B: Really, they took it to the next level there. [01:33:53] Speaker A: They really did. They held nothing back in sketching this guy out. Absolute shithead. [01:33:59] Speaker B: True, very true. [01:34:01] Speaker A: But you enjoy that, friends. And if you feel lonely, if you've passed the two or three week threshold for social deprivation. What can I tell you? At least you didn't live in the fucking jungle for 26 years on your own. Stop complaining. [01:34:14] Speaker B: Good perspective. Pull your socks up and stay spooky.