Ep. 245: nobody wants to axe murder anymore

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Listen, I'm gonna start just with a little warning and a little request, and I'm hoping you can cater to me here, right? Wow, I am in the mood. I don't know what story you've got queued up. I don't know what flavor you're going with here. And this is a. This is a fact, listeners, right? We don't. This isn't. Confected or anything like that. Corey and I, before we each start. Start our respective episodes of Joag with our respective little openers, our little tales. They're as much for one another as they are for you. [00:00:35] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. [00:00:36] Speaker A: Right. I cannot stress that enough. We don't share notes ahead of time. The very idea that we would share notes ahead of time is laughable to me. Notes. But I'll tell you ahead of time, Corrigan. And I'm hoping. I'm hoping you can feed my hunger tonight. Right? I'm hoping you can slake my thirst because I have a thirst for blood tonight. This night, this fucking October night. [00:01:17] Speaker B: Halloween week. [00:01:18] Speaker A: I. I want to feel it running down my face like Carrie White, you know? I want to feel it pour down my chin like nostril. [00:01:30] Speaker B: Honestly, it is incredible how much this description you are giving right now meets what I'm about to tell you. [00:01:37] Speaker A: I want to. I want to see it issuing forth from wounds and fucking exposed bodily plumbing. You know what I mean? I want to turn on the taps. I want to fucking bathe in it. I want to feel it coagulate around my ears and nostrils, you know what I'm saying? I want to fucking pick it from under my fingernails. [00:02:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:02] Speaker A: I want to wipe gluts of fucking scabbing over red juice from my eyes so I can open them again. You know what I'm saying? I want the juice. Give me the fucking juice. [00:02:16] Speaker B: Did you ever watch Aqua Teen Hunger Force? [00:02:18] Speaker A: No. Not even one time. [00:02:20] Speaker B: Not even one time. [00:02:22] Speaker A: Once. I don't even think it's a. It's. It's widely available over here. Comedy nerds enjoy it. Those who enjoy. [00:02:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Because it feels like a thing that you would have been very into. [00:02:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:32] Speaker B: Get down. My dog is biting down. Walter is like. Yes. Blood. [00:02:37] Speaker A: Blood. He is. [00:02:39] Speaker B: He is. [00:02:39] Speaker A: Look, he's gnawing at your elbow. [00:02:41] Speaker B: Please get down. There's. The only reason I say this is because there's an episode of Aqua Teen Hunger Force. They have a neighbor on Aqua Teen Hunger Force named Carl. This is kind of like a dumpy guy. You'd honestly recognize him if you saw him from, like, Memes and shit, you know, wears a beater and jeans and balding, all that jazz. And there's an episode in which there's like this monster thing that they encounter in their home. And the end of the episode when it's kind of like reaching its conclusion or whatever, it suddenly rips Carl's arms off and as blood spurts from the holes, it just starts screaming. Jooo. [00:03:20] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what I want. I wanna. [00:03:24] Speaker B: Like just bathe in Karl's armholes. [00:03:26] Speaker A: Countess Bathory. That's. That's what I was. That's where I'm at tonight. I want to soak in it. [00:03:33] Speaker B: Well, I think that I can, I can help you with this. But let me, let me tell you, Marco. [00:03:38] Speaker A: Okay. [00:03:38] Speaker B: You know, nobody wants to work anymore. [00:03:41] Speaker A: Oh fuck. You know, Certainly not me. [00:03:43] Speaker B: Yeah, we've all gotten so comfortable, you know, it's. It's got. [00:03:49] Speaker A: Did you hear that? Yeah. [00:03:52] Speaker B: I'm trying to be in character here. In your stomach. [00:03:58] Speaker A: I don't know why, because it's been completely silent. Not a peep all day. I sit down and turn on the mic and all of a sudden my tummy goes. [00:04:08] Speaker B: So this is literally friends. I open, I open zoom. And I'm sitting here waiting for Marco. Mark pops up and before he says a word, his stomach is like. [00:04:19] Speaker A: So yes, a treat for the dialed in listener. Perhaps if you're listening on AirPods or similar, you might get a little. [00:04:27] Speaker B: Yeah, you get a little bonus conversation from stomach. But Mark, it's gotten cold here. [00:04:34] Speaker A: Oh yeah. [00:04:35] Speaker B: You know, kind of abruptly like. It's not that cold, but considering it was like 80 degrees, now it's like 40s. [00:04:43] Speaker A: Yes. [00:04:43] Speaker B: Cold. [00:04:44] Speaker A: I and the rest of my family were caught on a ways because it's been so mild. Corey. [00:04:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:49] Speaker A: Talking about the weather on Joag, me in the head. But yeah, to say we were caught unawares because it got cold quick over here. [00:04:57] Speaker B: It suddenly got cold and. And you know, it got to the point where I was having trouble typing, which is the moment. [00:05:03] Speaker A: Oh no. [00:05:04] Speaker B: You know, where I'm like, yeah, my hands are freezing. Like I try to stick it out. [00:05:08] Speaker A: Tell me, does your Jeffrey Dahmer syndrome extend to your extremities? Do you also have unpredictable knuckles and toes? [00:05:17] Speaker B: You know about these? [00:05:18] Speaker A: Yeah, remember? Oh fuck. [00:05:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:20] Speaker A: Sure, sure, sure. [00:05:22] Speaker B: I just bent my pointer finger back to my wrist. Yes, they are problematic, my extremities here. And so you know what I did, Marco? Because my fingers were freezing, I guess. [00:05:37] Speaker A: Put some gloves on. [00:05:38] Speaker B: I didn't. No, I went into the dining room and I switched the little white button on the thermostat. [00:05:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:45] Speaker B: From off to heat. [00:05:47] Speaker A: Excellent. [00:05:48] Speaker B: That's it. [00:05:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:50] Speaker B: Click. Done. Now I'm warm. I assume that's exactly what you do when it finally gets to the point where your popsicle status. [00:05:58] Speaker A: Right, Yeah. I use an app, obviously, because it's 2025 and I enjoy that kind of thing. [00:06:02] Speaker B: But the principle, right, in principle, that's it. You don't have a fireplace. This is, you know, I have a fireplace downstairs. [00:06:11] Speaker A: Sure. [00:06:13] Speaker B: So. As. Do you have an axe? [00:06:16] Speaker A: Oh, fuck, no. I'd love an axe. My brother has a chainsaw, which I'm very jealous of. [00:06:21] Speaker B: Oh, wow, that's impressive. [00:06:23] Speaker A: I do not have an axe. And if did, I wouldn't know what the fuck to do with it. [00:06:26] Speaker B: Sure. You know, and, and here's the real problem, Mark. No axe. No, I mean, if all you do to keep yourself warm in the winter is flip a switch, what do you even need it for? [00:06:37] Speaker A: Well, exactly this. [00:06:38] Speaker B: But if you ain't got no axe. [00:06:40] Speaker A: My lawn's made of plastic. Where the fuck am I gonna shop. [00:06:44] Speaker B: If you ain't got no axe? Mark, that really raises one big question. How are you gonna do an axe murder? Well, you know, I mean, when was the last time you even heard of someone doing a good old fashioned axe murder? [00:07:03] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, there are times when we will have to pop to Wicks or the range, which is a British kind of chain of, I guess you'd say hardware stores, you know, like home goods. And unbidden every single time when I'm either driving out or in, I will always think to myself, right, so the plan is, when it comes time for me to chop up a body, what. [00:07:27] Speaker B: I'm doing is right. [00:07:28] Speaker A: Yeah, it's disposal. I'm paying in cash, I'm planning ahead. So I'm, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm making my purchases a good kind of few months removed from the act. I'm not going to the branch in Bicester. I'm gonna get the bus and I'm gonna go to a different branch elsewhere, like in a couple of cities over. But for me, it would be electric cutting tools. In fact, when I think of an axe, my first thought is disposal and murder. And chopping fuel is like fourth or fifth down the list of uses for an axe as far as I'm concerned. [00:08:08] Speaker B: Listen, for one, you've really got to watch more Dateline because that is what every guy does. He drives to all the different walmarts or whatever and all the different states and thinks that they're not gonna notice that he did that. But anyway. Well, not the point. [00:08:23] Speaker A: Couldn't be me. I. Different clothes, different beard lengths. I've got a number of hats. [00:08:31] Speaker B: You need to watch more Dateline. We're gonna. We gotta sit you down and watch more Dateline. Not the point, Mark. [00:08:39] Speaker A: No, sorry, of course we digress. But I do watch 24 hours in police custody and I take very detailed notes. Right. I could do this. [00:08:48] Speaker B: Well, Mark, these days we're so lazy here in the US when we want to do a murder, it's just a quick, you know, pew, pew, and it's done. You know, over there maybe a little stabby. Stabby. Right. You know, something like that. But no one wants to do the real work of an axe murder. So I'm going to take you back to the early 20th century when people had grit, gumption. [00:09:12] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:09:13] Speaker B: And a peon for axe murdering. Nice. [00:09:16] Speaker A: Real nice. [00:09:18] Speaker B: So let me first take you back to June of 19. That's a good one. [00:09:23] Speaker A: Let's just ignore it. Go on, just keep going. [00:09:25] Speaker B: Let me first take you back to June of 1912 in a small town in Iowa known as Villisca. [00:09:33] Speaker A: Oh, spell please. [00:09:35] Speaker B: V, I, L, L, I, S, C, A. And actually, I didn't. Normally I go on YouTube and I check for pronunciation and I didn't on this one. So apologies. If you're from Iowa and you're like, that's not how you say it. It's Vilca. [00:09:49] Speaker A: Very big in Iowa. Joak. Very big in Iowa. [00:09:51] Speaker B: Huge in Iowa. Listen, to this day, Iowa is pretty much known for being in the middle of nowhere. [00:09:57] Speaker A: Yes. [00:09:58] Speaker B: Um, I don't know if I've ever met anyone from Iowa. If you're listening to this and you are from Iowa, let me know because I don't know if I know anyone from there. [00:10:07] Speaker A: One word. Nine members. Slipknot. That's all I'll say. [00:10:11] Speaker B: Are they from Iowa? [00:10:12] Speaker A: Fucking right there. It's either their second or third album is called Iowa and is a absolute fucking monster of an album. [00:10:22] Speaker B: Well, there you go. So Slipknot, I guess, is who I know from Iowa. I've driven through Iowa. It was largely corn. I did stop at the biggest truck stop in the US which was in Iowa, and it was really big. They had whole ass semis inside the building. [00:10:41] Speaker A: Okay. I feel like. Is that something that a lot of truck stops will claim? [00:10:45] Speaker B: Oh, no, it is. Legitimately. I have never seen anything like this. It's like air. Two airplane hangars that they turned into it. Like, I'm not kidding, Semi trucks inside, more than one. It was bonkers. So that's, you know, Iowa. But all that's to say it's flyover territory now. So a century ago, you can imagine it being even more sparse. And Villisca in 1912 was home to less than 2,000 people, all of whom, at least, would recognize each other on the street, if not know each other intimately. There were no strangers here. Even people whose homes weren't, like, right in the center of town or far away from each other, y' all had to go to the same place to do your shopping and whatnot. Y' all kind of knew each other. That's why it was especially. Go ahead. [00:11:42] Speaker A: Do you think you could approximate an Iowa accent for me? An Iowan? [00:11:48] Speaker B: I just told you, I don't know anyone from Iowa. [00:11:51] Speaker A: Well, no. I mean, I don't know anyone from, you know, Edinburgh where I could have a crack at what they might sound like. [00:11:58] Speaker B: Surely you've met people from Edinburgh. [00:12:00] Speaker A: I'm just. Just to think of an example. I mean, I don't know. People in. There are loads of dialects and loads of backgrounds. [00:12:05] Speaker B: I think the thing is, like, this is. This is a really good way of kind of talking about how remote this is. Like, not remote, but in America, when you think about, like, American accents. Right. Like, what do you think of. Well, if you could, like, name, like, the places that you largely think of. [00:12:28] Speaker A: Oh, God, no, I couldn't. I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I wouldn't deign to. I wouldn't. I wouldn't even. [00:12:33] Speaker B: I don't mean try them. I just mean, like. Like, what would you. I know this place. This place. [00:12:38] Speaker A: Brooklyn. [00:12:40] Speaker B: Sure. New York, right? [00:12:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Texas. [00:12:44] Speaker B: Texas. The South. [00:12:45] Speaker A: Yes, yes. Let me see. Like the. Like, Alabama. [00:12:54] Speaker B: That's the South. Yes. [00:12:56] Speaker A: That kind of just those really. Those are the only. Those are the ones. [00:13:00] Speaker B: And then like, maybe like a California accent, like you see in every movie that you watch, right? And then maybe like a. Nor like a mid northern Midwest sort of accent, like a Fargo. Right. [00:13:13] Speaker A: Oh, Boston. [00:13:14] Speaker B: Boston, sure. Massachusetts. Yeah, totally. Like, yeah. And then you got like a. You know, something that'd be like, Minnesota or things like that. That's what you think of, right? And then there's, like, all of the rest of the United States that you do not think about that are any sort of version of any of those or none of those at all. And Iowa, I would say, is one of those. You never hear someone Go like, oh, he had such a thick Iowa accent. That's not a thing. [00:13:44] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, okay, okay. [00:13:47] Speaker B: So that's actually a good illustration of what I mean about Iowa. So, no, unfortunately, I cannot imitate someone from Iowa again. If someone is from Iowa and wants to imitate it for us or to, you know, tell us how you talk, please do. [00:14:03] Speaker A: Imitate their own voice. [00:14:05] Speaker B: Imitate your own voice. 2,000. Less than 2,000 people, all of whom recognize each other. [00:14:11] Speaker A: So tell me again the name of the town. Vil. [00:14:14] Speaker B: Villisca. [00:14:14] Speaker A: Villisca. [00:14:16] Speaker B: So that's why it's especially troubling when on the night of June 10, someone, a man presumably, entered the home of Joe and Sarah Moore and their family. It was a full house that night. Downstairs slept two young girls, aged 12 and nine, who were friends of the family. Upstairs, the Moore's four children slept, and in the room next to them, the two parents. Upon entering the home, the intruder took one of the family's oil lamps off of a dresser and then bent its wick so that a flame would be dimmed. And then he lit it and turned it down low so there was enough of a glow for him to see, but it wouldn't disturb anyone. Right out the gate. That's a pretty chilling detail. Yeah, Right. Dude walks into this house, grabs a lantern, lights it, and now he can see everything that's going on in here while everyone is sleeping. [00:15:22] Speaker A: It's predatory, isn't it? [00:15:24] Speaker B: It is extremely. And confident and, like, just brazen, you know? So he walks into this place. The scariest villain I can think of already. [00:15:35] Speaker A: Sure. [00:15:37] Speaker B: He then went straight upstairs, ignoring all the sleeping children, and went into the room where Joe and Sarah were sleeping. Wordlessly, he raised an axe he'd brought with him above his head with enough force that it put a hole in the ceiling and then brought the flat side of the blade down onto the back of Joe's head. A skull crushing blow that likely killed him instantly. His wife didn't even stir before the man raised his axe again and did the same to her. He then moved on to the next room where the four children, Herman, 11, Catherine, 10, Boyd, 7 and Paul, 5, were sleeping. And by one by one, he dispatched them the exact same way. [00:16:31] Speaker A: Not Herman. [00:16:33] Speaker B: Not Herman, please. Poor guy. They have like, nor Catherine, Boyd, Paul, Herman. Poor Dude. But from every indication, none of them ever awoke before meeting their doom. As quiet as a church mouse, he smashed each of their skulls in before heading downstairs and doing the same to the two visiting girls, Lena and Ina Stillinger. It's thought that the older of the two girls, the 12 year old, was the only person in the house to have awakened before her murder. But even then, probably only for a second. And then hit with the flat side of the axe, which it's thought was carried out. Because if you hit I. You see this happen in movies, but you never really think about it. You know, if you hit someone with the sharp part of the axe, it gets stuck. [00:17:27] Speaker A: Sure. [00:17:27] Speaker B: Right. In which case you might have a problem on your hands. So flat side, just crush the skull, blunt, no problem. Easy peasy. Yeah. Now the idea of a stranger with an axe entering a home and silently slaughtering everyone inside is enough of a horror movie plot in and of itself, right? But he wasn't done being creepy as fuck yet. After his bloody work was done, the intruder stuck around for a while. He first returned to the parents room where he proceeded to smash the ever loving fuck out of their heads, reducing them to unrecognizable pulp. He did the same to their four kids. And then, according to Smithsonian magazine, he drew up the bedclothes to cover Joe and Sarah's shattered heads, placed a gauze undershirt over Herman's face and a dress over Catherine's, covered Boyd and Paul as well, and finally administered the same terrible postmortem punishment to the girls downstairs before touring the house and ritually hanging cloths over every mirror and piece of glass in it. Right. Like I am telling you, this is psychosis. [00:18:48] Speaker A: This is absolute in the grip of psychosis. This is crazy. An episode of something. This is horrible. [00:18:55] Speaker B: Well, we'll see. Inexplicably, he also found a two pound slab of bacon in the icebox. [00:19:03] Speaker A: Okay. [00:19:03] Speaker B: Which he wrapped in a towel and left on the downstairs bedroom floor. [00:19:08] Speaker A: Oh. [00:19:09] Speaker B: Found next to it was a piece of keychain which apparently did not belong to the family or to their visitors. So stands to reason, for some reason, his keychain and this slab of bacon. At some point, he filled a bowl with water and washed the blood from his hands in it. And then sometime in the wee hours before 5am he left the lamp at the top of the stairs and made his exit, locking the doors and taking the keys with him as he departed. If you were writing a horror movie about an axe murder, you would have to change zero details for this to be a stunner of an opening scene. Like everything about this is absolutely chilling, violent, terrifying, just the way that, I mean, inexplicable in many ways. Why did he drape the things with the. With like, you know, the mirrors with things. Like what was. [00:20:10] Speaker A: This is exactly what I mean when I say, you know, this, this. These feel like the actions of someone who's in the grip of something, who's obeying, you know? [00:20:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:20] Speaker A: Some fucking force, internal something, you know, in. In untraceable and unseeable by somebody else. This is somebody who's letting, you know, letting the voices take control, you know? [00:20:32] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. Letting the intrusive thought win. [00:20:35] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:20:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Now, as you can probably imagine, a household the size of the moors was usually bustling with activity. [00:20:44] Speaker A: Visitors. [00:20:44] Speaker B: So in the morning, sleepovers, right? Yeah, Tons going on here. Right. In the morning, a neighbor was quick to notice that there was an eerie absence of life next door. Like I said, everybody knew each other in this town. So he called Joe's brother and said he should go around to see what was up. As soon as he entered the home, he came running back out again, calling for Hank Horton, the town marshal, to be summoned. And along with Horton came a cadre of others, including several doctors, a minister, the coroner, and soon a crowd of onlookers. Yes, some 100 townspeople just wandered in to look at the carnage, even going so far as to take skull fragments as souvenirs from the scene of the crime. [00:21:36] Speaker A: Come on. [00:21:38] Speaker B: Right, like, and this, like, this reminds me of. Remember when we were talking about Nicola Bully last year and how, like, basically tiktokers had destroyed their chance of finding, like, any evidence if anything did happen. It's like they were going into, like, abandoned houses and just, like, taking stuff as souvenirs. [00:21:54] Speaker A: What are you gonna fucking do with a chunk of Herman's head? [00:21:57] Speaker B: Right? I'm sure someone still to this day has like, a little, like, you know, vial somewhere. [00:22:03] Speaker A: Yeah, sure, sure. [00:22:04] Speaker B: That has this bit of skull in it. Like, just weird, you know, someone's in their attic. Like, huh, what's this? [00:22:11] Speaker A: Classic fucking Iowa freak behavior. [00:22:13] Speaker B: That is exactly that weird. But all of this naturally meant that any evidence that might have been left behind to tell the tale of the intruder was absolutely destroyed. Was he a stranger? Was he a townsperson with a vendetta? Was he the local weirdo? No way to tell. Too many folks were so excited to see the pulpy faces of the Moore family, it was instantly impossible to investigate the scene. That didn't mean there weren't suspects, though. Chief among them was a state senator and Villisca businessman named Frank Jones, who was also part of the town's Methodist church. Interestingly, the town experienced a religious schism over the murders with Presbyterians, sure Jones had done it, and Methodists defending innocence. And all of this was because, well, Moore and Jones did hate each other. Moore had actually been employed by Jones for seven years, proving himself absolutely invaluable to his farm equipment business. But in 1907, Moore left Jones Co. Which had had him working from 7am to 11pm Six days a week, and started his own. And not only that, he'd taken Jones biggest account with him. John Deere. Oh yes, you familiar with John Deere? [00:23:39] Speaker A: The MOA guys? [00:23:41] Speaker B: Yeah, like sure, you over there know what? [00:23:43] Speaker A: John Deere for sure, for sure. [00:23:44] Speaker B: So that's a real fucking huge account with him. That's. Yeah, exactly. And to add personal insult to economic injury, it's thought that Moore also had had an affair with Jones's daughter in law who was known as the village bicycle and was ostensibly proud of it. She'd even arrange her affairs with men of the town over the phone. And at the time you had to make calls with an operator. So there was always someone listening to this and then spreading that hot goss around town afterwards. She gave zero fucks about that, maybe even liked it. So honestly, seems like Jones shouldn't have been so bothered by this, but I guess he just didn't want more of all people hitting that. So by the year of Moore's murder, the two men were so miffed with each other they'd literally crossed the road to avoid each other if they saw each other in town. And people speculated that Jones, who was 54 at the time, had hired someone to wipe this nuisance family off the face of the earth. And while he was never formally charged with anything, as you can imagine, the whole ordeal completely destroyed his political career. That was the end of the whole senatorial deal. Frank Jones wasn't the only suspect, though. Others thought an English immigrant named George Jacqueline Kelly was the culprit. And honestly, there are lots of reasons for that. Kelly was absolutely the town creeper. He suffered unspecified mental problems. So I don't know if that's like schizophrenia or if that's like intellectual disability. It's 1912. Who knows if he was diagnosed or if they were just like, that guy's a moron. [00:25:24] Speaker A: Yeah, of course, of course. [00:25:26] Speaker B: No idea. Didn't say in anything I read, but one way or another his head wasn't fully in the right place. English they called him. And he's English, so you know. [00:25:37] Speaker A: Tell me his name again. [00:25:40] Speaker B: George Jacqueline Kelly. [00:25:41] Speaker A: Simple George they would call him. [00:25:43] Speaker B: Good old simple George, probably. I wouldn't be surprised. [00:25:46] Speaker A: Simple British George. [00:25:49] Speaker B: They just said British George and the simple was implied. But he's referred to in everything I read as a preacher. I don't think he had, like, a congregation, though. Like, I get congregation of one. Yeah. This is like preacher in the sense that he probably, like, stood on street corners and yelled at people. Like, that's kind of the sense I get from this. Because this does not seem like a guy people would hire. He was also a peeping Tom and sex pest, regularly caught peering into people's windows. [00:26:21] Speaker A: Stop the hunt. [00:26:24] Speaker B: Yeah, right. Oh, I haven't even finished. [00:26:26] Speaker A: Call it, lads. [00:26:30] Speaker B: He had once placed an ad in a newspaper for a girl stenographer, requiring that that stenographer also be willing to pose as a model. One respondent to the ad received a letter back from Kelly that was, according to a judge, quote, so obscene, lewd, lascivious and filthy as to be offensive to this honorable court and improper to spread upon the thereof. I can only imagine what was in that letter since they kept it off the record. The only thing we know is that among the requirements in it were that the stenographer do her typing. [00:27:06] Speaker A: Naked George. [00:27:10] Speaker B: Again, I don't think this preacher had a congregation. [00:27:13] Speaker A: That's a paraphilia and a half, isn't it? [00:27:16] Speaker B: Well, yeah, I suppose so. [00:27:20] Speaker A: Naked lady type typist typing. [00:27:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I think he just kind of. [00:27:25] Speaker A: Was, now I come to think of it. [00:27:29] Speaker B: It's not bad. I think he was just. He just really was trying to find a. An avenue to the naked lady. And a stenographer was a thing he could think of to advertise for. [00:27:40] Speaker A: This is simple George we're talking about. [00:27:42] Speaker B: Right. Come on. [00:27:44] Speaker A: Known to stop at the first idea, is George. [00:27:47] Speaker B: Right? Exactly. On top of being a super gross guy. The day of the murder, Kelly had attended the Children's Day service at the Presbyterian church, which the Moores and the Stillingers had all attended. With the kids all taking part in the ceremonies, it was thought that he might have fixated on them, following them home and lying in wait in some bales of hay in the family barn that were indeed found to have depressions in them, like someone had been hanging out there. There was also a knothole in the side of the barn near the hay bale. Hay bales through which he easily could have watched the family's comings and goings and known when they all bedded down for the night. [00:28:26] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:28:28] Speaker B: Further, Kelly had sent bloody clothing to a nearby laundry and had been witnessed leaving town on a train at 5:19am if you recall it's thought that the murderer left the home just before 5:00am oh, yeah, yeah. [00:28:43] Speaker A: We'll close the book, close the case. We're done. [00:28:46] Speaker B: I'm not done. A week later, he returned to town, obsessing over the murders and even impersonated a Scotland Yard detective in order to finagle a tour of the murder house. [00:28:59] Speaker A: Which, by the way, town in Iowa, where everyone knows one another. [00:29:02] Speaker B: Where everyone knows one another. Yeah. Somehow he got in, though I don't know what he did. Just, I don't know, put on like a hat, a fake mustache, and was like, hey, Governor, Officer Scotland Yard. Yeah. [00:29:19] Speaker A: Words reached us that there's been a murder. [00:29:26] Speaker B: So, by the way, the house is still standing, and I will come back to that. But in 1917, he was finally arrested and signed a confession stating that he murdered them all and that God had told him to, quote, slay utterly. Which is like a great drag term. [00:29:44] Speaker A: I was just about to say. All right, not in a 2025 sense. [00:29:49] Speaker B: Not in a 2025 way, no. However, he recanted this confession and the couple who had seen him getting on the train the morning of the killings also changed their story. So there was soon nothing concrete to tie him to the incident and he was acquitted by a jury. Now, that probably sounds crazy, I can see it on your face and hear it in your size, because everything about Kelly sounds like a real slam dunk for this case. But there's one. Was that Pete again? [00:30:24] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:30:27] Speaker B: But there's one major reason why most think he really didn't have anything to do with that. And that reason, a whole grip of other unsolved axe murderers with a similar MO across the western and Midwestern United States a year before the Moors were slaughtered while they slept. [00:30:50] Speaker A: Does complicate thoughts. Before I go on, it does complicate things, does. [00:30:54] Speaker B: Yes. [00:30:55] Speaker A: I guess Simple George wasn't known to travel. [00:30:58] Speaker B: No, not so much. I mean, he clearly left on the train that day, but he wasn't known for, you know, his itinerants did not include broad travel across the United States. He stayed in Iowa. [00:31:10] Speaker A: Does complicate things. But on the other hand, you know, causality and causation and so on, other murders being nearby. Doesn't. We're not. We're not investigating those. We're investigating this murder. [00:31:22] Speaker B: Great point. Yeah, absolutely. Well, let me tell you about those murders and see what you think. [00:31:26] Speaker A: Okay. [00:31:27] Speaker B: Started In September of 1911, when not one, but two families were all but wiped out on the same night In Colorado Springs, Colorado around 2pm on September 20, Nettie Ruth and her friend Anna Merritt went to visit Nettie's sister, Alice May Burnham. But were immediately met by the smell of decayed meat. As they approached. Upon trying her key in the lock, it stuck a bit. Indicating that someone must have picked it before they entered to find that dinner from the night before were still left where they'd been when Nettie had left a little, little after 9pm the previous evening. Pressing on, the two women were then greeted by what she described as great splotches of blood on the walls. [00:32:17] Speaker A: Yes. Yes. More. [00:32:18] Speaker B: And then. Well, you're not gonna like it. And then the body of her niece lying on her bed, her head crushed more. [00:32:27] Speaker A: Yes. [00:32:29] Speaker B: They went no further and instead summoned the police. Boo. Well, mere feet from the Burnham house was the Wayne house. And upon arriving, the police forced their way into that house as well. There they found that the whole Wayne family had had their skulls crushed. A bloody axe was found at the back door. An ax that Mrs. Wayne had actually borrowed from a neighbor a few days before. Murdered with an ax that shouldn't have even been there. Unfortunate. All in all, that night, Alice May Burnham, her six year old daughter Alice and three year old son John Henry and Blanche Wayne and their two year old daughter Blanche. These people, for some reason all their daughters are named after their mothers were brutally murdered in the same way. [00:33:21] Speaker A: What we already have here is a difference. In movies, did the killer and Iowa not bring his own axe? [00:33:28] Speaker B: He didn't bring his own axe. Keep in mind this is the first one. [00:33:31] Speaker A: Okay? Okay, Fine, fine, fine. [00:33:33] Speaker B: Yeah. So I, I find that interesting that in this case it seems like he may have come in and it was like almost a matter of convenience. Like, oh, wait a minute, this would work. And maybe that changed things in later murders. But there was no sign of robbery. The Waynes still wearing gold bracelets. There was a gold watch hanging out of a drawer. The killer had locked the doors of both homes upon leaving. And in the Burnham's house, he'd knocked over a bottle of ink and attempted to clean it up. Now obviously we're missing a family member here. The father in the Burnham house, Arthur J. Burnham. And while Dateline didn't exist back then, the trope remained the same. It was probably the husband, 100%. When the police met him at work and told him his family was dead, he first asked if it had been a train accident. His poor guy. Was it a train? Please, please God, was it a train, sir? [00:34:37] Speaker A: First thing that comes to mind. [00:34:42] Speaker B: Maybe autistic oh, was it to train his demeanor when questioned and upon being taken to look at the bodies, was described as flat, which they thought suspicious. But his boss could account for him the entire day of the murders. Further, because it's 1911, Arthur had tuberculosis and his roommate could hear him hacking up a lung all fucking night in his work cottage. That's not a thing you forget the guy next to you keeping you up all night coughing. So it was pretty much impossible for him to have done it. [00:35:20] Speaker A: Do you know that they used to sell cigarettes in cans? [00:35:27] Speaker B: In cans? [00:35:28] Speaker A: Cans. Tin cans. [00:35:30] Speaker B: I feel like we're having like an accent off right now. [00:35:35] Speaker A: Cans. I shit you not. I'm fucking serious. Right? Imagine like a tin of tuna or fish or whatever, or corned beef, okay? You pull the key off the tin and twist it and open the tin and pop. And you would. You would have. [00:35:52] Speaker B: I feel like I've seen that in, like, war movies. [00:35:54] Speaker A: Exactly this. And you'd have, like a can of cigarettes and there's. They're. They go for a pretty penny at auction in 20, 25. You can buy these for hundreds and hundreds of dollars. [00:36:05] Speaker B: Damn. [00:36:06] Speaker A: I would fucking smoke one of them right now. [00:36:09] Speaker B: What? [00:36:10] Speaker A: Just imagine. Imagine that. Imagine opening like a hundred. [00:36:14] Speaker B: Open up a fresh tin. [00:36:17] Speaker A: No, like, I don't mean like, I wouldn't have smoked them at the time, but now if I were to happen across one of those in like a house clearance or like, you know, like in the effects of a dead relative or something like that, I would. You'd have to smoke one of them, wouldn't you just. [00:36:34] Speaker B: Sure. [00:36:34] Speaker A: I guess you'd have to get. [00:36:36] Speaker B: My husband would. He will absolutely eat or like, consume old shit that he finds. [00:36:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Just imagine how just hundreds of years of almost stewing, fermenting in that tin. Imagine the fucking rich notes of flavor one of those cigarettes would have. [00:36:57] Speaker B: What made you. Was it tuberculosis that made you think of this? [00:37:00] Speaker A: Yes, it was. Because I imagined they'd be smoking cigarettes in tin. That's. Yeah, my. [00:37:05] Speaker B: Okay. [00:37:06] Speaker A: That's the context I'm drawing for myself. That's the picture I'm painting. And that's why he had such bad lungs. He had such bad tuberculosis. [00:37:12] Speaker B: That's not how you get tuberculosis. [00:37:14] Speaker A: But it's not going to help, is it? [00:37:15] Speaker B: I'm sure it wouldn't help. No. Yeah. Anyway, the trail went cold. I think that was what you wanted though, right? Because when you got tb, they, like, sent you to the mountains, right? They were like, oh, you want the. The fresh. [00:37:29] Speaker A: That fresh cold air yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:37:31] Speaker B: Which they sort of didn't realize why they were right. But they were right because really it was just getting people out of cities that were full of pollution that made the tuberculosis worse. Worse. But they thought it was the mountain air itself that cured it. That's neither here nor there. The point is, wasn't the husband. Trail goes cold. Right. And over the next two months, there would be 25 murders carried out across five states, all with similar MOs. The killer would sneak into the house, he'd bend the wick on a lamp that was already in the house so it would light dimly. [00:38:13] Speaker A: If I may, how do we know this detail about the lamp? [00:38:19] Speaker B: Because he left the lamp. [00:38:20] Speaker A: Fine, fine. Fine. [00:38:22] Speaker B: Thank you. Yeah. As if you recall from the first one. Like, he left it at the top of the stairs. [00:38:26] Speaker A: Sure. Yes. [00:38:26] Speaker B: Take it with him. [00:38:27] Speaker A: The lamp. [00:38:29] Speaker B: The lamp, yes. It's a weird thing. One of the weird things about this guy is, like, putting things back in their place. [00:38:34] Speaker A: Locking that is a tough one. [00:38:36] Speaker B: A tough right. [00:38:37] Speaker A: Square the circle, isn't it? [00:38:39] Speaker B: Yeah. You'd bend the wick on the lamps. The victims, we tucked into the beds with their covers pulled up, the doors locked in. Monmouth, huh? [00:38:48] Speaker A: Mirrors covered. [00:38:49] Speaker B: I don't know about the mirrors covered. That one didn't come up, but I assume so. There's. Unfortunately, there's like, several, like, primary source kinds of things, like newspapers and stuff from the time, and they're all behind paywalls, so I couldn't, like, get, like, those details from, like, the day of. [00:39:09] Speaker A: That's a detail I enjoy. I enjoy. I enjoy that detail about covering up the mirrors. [00:39:13] Speaker B: It definitely did come up again because in one of the houses, I remember it wasn't the same ones that he had covered. A telephone as well. And someone pointed out that this particular type of teles. Telephone was known for the fact that it kind of looked like a face. It had, like, these two little, you know, things that looked like an eye. And then, like, the. The speech part of it looked like. Or the. Yeah, it looked like it was a mouth coming out of it. [00:39:41] Speaker A: That's a very rich detail. [00:39:43] Speaker B: Yeah. People theorize like it could have been a matter of, like, not wanting to be watched. Don't look at me. [00:39:49] Speaker A: Don't judge me. [00:39:49] Speaker B: Don't. Yeah, right. Exactly. So, yeah, so that definitely did come up in at least one other one besides that. But this happened in Monmouth, Illinois. [00:40:02] Speaker A: Again, if I may, just thoughts as they occur to me. [00:40:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Do it. [00:40:06] Speaker A: Isn't it fascinating that, hey, in our lifetimes, rather than covering up the phone. There's more of a tendency to fucking livestream from it to make sure that everyone can fucking see what you're doing. [00:40:23] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. Yeah, very much so. That idea of being watched has become a thing we're less afraid of. [00:40:32] Speaker A: But I'm still afraid of it. [00:40:34] Speaker B: But. [00:40:34] Speaker A: But in the act of murder. But in the act of mass killings and such. [00:40:39] Speaker B: Yeah. It's like, oh, watch me do it. [00:40:41] Speaker A: Yes. [00:40:42] Speaker B: Mm. [00:40:43] Speaker A: Different story, different times. [00:40:47] Speaker B: But they said this was Monmouth, Illinois, Ellsworth, Kansas, Rainier, Washington, and Portland, Oregon. On top of those killings in Colorado Springs and the later murders in Iowa. [00:40:57] Speaker A: I have by. At this point, George is off the hook. [00:41:03] Speaker B: I think we can finally leave British George out of this. [00:41:06] Speaker A: Sorry for wasting your time, sir. [00:41:09] Speaker B: Back to the windows, buddy. [00:41:11] Speaker A: Back to the windows. Yep. [00:41:15] Speaker B: At the scene of the mob. [00:41:16] Speaker A: Good luck in your hunt for a kinky stenographer. You know, today he would be able. [00:41:22] Speaker B: To find that no problem, Right? Be easy peasy. [00:41:26] Speaker A: All the best. [00:41:26] Speaker B: There's one on every corner of the Internet, I guess. But at the scene of the Monmouth killings, a flashlight was found inscribed Colorado Springs, September 4th. Which feels a bit like the antifa bullets being found at all the big shootings. [00:41:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:45] Speaker B: But according to Colorado Springs investigator Dwight Haverkorn, who has written the literal book on this, this was a real thing that they found. It was. [00:41:54] Speaker A: There's a book on this. [00:41:57] Speaker B: Yeah, just came out last year, actually. Turns out. Yes, he's trying to solve it. We'll get into that further. He notes that most of the killings happen at homes that were very near. Near rail railroad tracks. I always struggle with Railroad. That's a tough word. [00:42:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:16] Speaker B: Railroad tracks. Sometimes directly next to them. It's quite possible that the culprit in these attacks wasn't some jilted former boss or peeping Tom or murderous husband, but in fact, just some guy riding the rails to his victims and then riding them right back out of town again. Exactly. At the time that this was all happening, fingerprinting science was obviously very new. So we don't necessarily have that kind of forensic evidence from all the scenes. But what's worse, what fingerprints we do have, we simply don't have access to. The Pinkerton and Burns agencies were called in to assist in catching the Wayne Burnham killer. [00:42:55] Speaker A: So help me out. Just. Let me just sketch out my very vague understanding of that term. Pink it into, like, the proto FBI. Yes. [00:43:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's essentially the idea. Yeah. [00:43:05] Speaker A: Okay, fine, fine, fine. Where do I know that from? Red Dead Redemption 2 that's my only source of intel on that matter. [00:43:12] Speaker B: I mean, they show up in other stuff that you would watch, right? Like in, like, mobster movies and things like that. You hear, like, early mobster movies. You hear about Pinkertons and. [00:43:21] Speaker A: Yeah, the Untouchables. [00:43:22] Speaker B: I was gonna say the Untouchables is the first one, I think. Yes, but, yeah. So the Pinkerton and Burns agencies were called into assist in catching the killer in the Colorado Springs case, and they did take fingerprints. However, apparently the Pinkerton fingerprint records were purchased by a Swedish company called Securitas, and now all of the records are split between them and the Library of Congress. So it's basically impossible to connect fingerprints from the scenes of different murders. The prints that would tell us who did this could very well be in those records, but we cannot find or access them. So to this day, no one has a clue who smashed in the heads of more than two dozen people in 1911 and 1912. The town of Aliska, Iowa, however, has turned that horrific night of violence into a weird boon. As I mentioned earlier, the house in which the Moore family and their friends were slaughtered still stands to this day. [00:44:33] Speaker A: Phenomenal. [00:44:34] Speaker B: Yes. And not only do they give tours each weekend, they allow people to stay the night there. You can rent the house and sleep there. Wild, right? [00:44:47] Speaker A: Stunning. [00:44:48] Speaker B: Stunning. According to Salon, the Villisca Murder house brings in over $40,000 annually in a town with a median household income of $26,000. That's both earners together in a household only making 26 grand. So it's bringing in a lot of money. This place has become a hub for paranormal investigations, a thing the owner claims he absolutely never courted. People just started showing up. He posted a notice in the newspaper of one crew that was coming to investigate, and some hundred people showed up just to see what was going on. And those people ended up paying to go on tours of the house. People come back over and over and over. And one group of friends interviewed by Salon having had arrived there for their 19th visit to this place. People claim to. [00:45:42] Speaker A: So it's not like it'll be on, like, TripAdvisor and whatever, probably. [00:45:47] Speaker B: That's actually a really good question. I would love to look that up. And of course, people claim to have experiences there. Naturally. There's lots of ghost stories and things. One of the ones that was mentioned in there is something where someone, like, thought that they had heard, like, one of the children from the past saying something about being on the potty or on the toilet or something like that. And the guy was like, what? Which is, you know, unlikely because houses didn't have indoor plumbing at the time. But sure, why not? [00:46:19] Speaker A: Corrigan, Villiska, Axe Murder House. [00:46:24] Speaker B: Yes. How many stars? [00:46:26] Speaker A: 86 reviews. 4.3 out of 5. [00:46:29] Speaker B: Nice. Let me finish this. And then I would just like to, of course, know what? Like, low what people say, especially low ratings on this. But the head of the town's historical society notes that the town has no future without its past. And while there are some other neat sites like an old armory or the site where a Pulitzer Prize winning photo of the murdered Joe Moore's nephew, Lt. Col. Robert Moore, was taken at the end of World War II, everyone knows the real engine that keeps the whole town moving is the brutal, unsolved axe murder of eight people in June of 1912. I feel like you found something. [00:47:11] Speaker A: Would you like some reviews? [00:47:13] Speaker B: I would love some reviews. [00:47:15] Speaker A: M Hyang June 2025. The experience was really fun and informative. They added air conditioning, so that was a nice touch up from the heat wave we had on that day. Okay. I took my wife, who's big into the paranormal. Several YouTubers she watches have went there. So I thought this would be a cool activity. Five stars, meticulously maintained. The tour guide was very knowledgeable. [00:47:38] Speaker B: I think it's just the guy who owns the place. [00:47:40] Speaker A: Yeah. But all of these reviews are replied to by the guest relations director. Wow. Yeah, this is. This is very much a thriving business. [00:47:51] Speaker B: Isn't that incredible? I mean, for something to have over 80 reviews on TripAdvisor means, like, people are going to that. And this is. This is Villisca, Iowa. There is no reason for you to go to that place. Jody M. Out of their way. [00:48:07] Speaker A: Says that it was fun doing the tour of the house and using the EMF meter to see if we can pick up any paranormal activity. Okay. [00:48:14] Speaker B: I've done that before. [00:48:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I see what's happened here. They've got a sign outside. [00:48:22] Speaker B: Yeah. With like, bloody lettering. [00:48:24] Speaker A: Villiska, Axe Murder House. Yep. Yep. [00:48:28] Speaker B: Are there any negative. I want to know if there are any negative ones on there and what for? [00:48:31] Speaker A: Great question. [00:48:32] Speaker B: I'm just. I'm just curious as to what people might complain about when they go to the middle of Iowa. [00:48:38] Speaker A: Well, we have five. Five terrible reviews, so. [00:48:43] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:48:44] Speaker A: Although someone was in the office, no tours have been given, hence the one star rating. We tried to take a tour today, but the office attendant refused to allow our almost 12 year old to go on the tour. Okay. One star. Masks were required. All right. [00:49:00] Speaker B: Nice. So you know? [00:49:05] Speaker A: Well, yeah, it's, it's thriving. It's doing an absolutely roaring trade by the look of it. [00:49:10] Speaker B: So, friends, if you want to sleep in a house where six children had their heads bashed in, have we got the place for you? [00:49:20] Speaker A: Let me quote directly from my notes, if I may. [00:49:22] Speaker B: Yes, please do. [00:49:24] Speaker A: Fucking look at these nerds. Oh, mise en scene. [00:49:27] Speaker B: I don't think anyone has ever said mise en scene in such a horny way before. [00:49:31] Speaker A: The way I whispered the word sex cannibal. [00:49:33] Speaker B: Recently, worst comes to worst, Mark, I'm willing to guillotine you for science. [00:49:38] Speaker A: Thank you. That's really, really sweet. It's cold outside, but my pancreas is talking to me. I'm fucking, I'm gonna leg it. [00:49:44] Speaker B: You know how I feel about that, Mark? [00:49:46] Speaker A: I think you feel great about it. Something, something unusual about Halloween this year. I, I, I, I, I generally enjoy Halloween. Right. [00:49:59] Speaker B: Yep. [00:49:59] Speaker A: It's a chance to cozy up and it's a chance to watch, of course, the greats, the horror movies. [00:50:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:09] Speaker A: But this year it's somehow, it's pissing me off, man. [00:50:12] Speaker B: What? [00:50:13] Speaker A: Yeah, some how somehow this year it's really, really winding me up over here particularly. I don't know why, I don't know why. I think maybe it's maybe. Is it, is it, is it a similar kind of phenomenon as seeing Nirvana T shirts and Metallica T shirts everywhere? Because they sell them in Primark? This is every, this is every week for me. Right. [00:50:41] Speaker B: Mm. [00:50:43] Speaker A: Don't we fucking stay spooky? [00:50:47] Speaker B: It's true, you know, 24, 7, 365. So I guess 366 on a leap year. [00:50:54] Speaker A: It's winding me up a little bit this year. The casuals. [00:50:58] Speaker B: Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is. Interesting. I have noticed. And listen, I'm all for it. [00:51:06] Speaker A: What do you got, what do you got there? What do you got there? [00:51:08] Speaker B: Oh, it's a, it's a hand grip strength donut. But I have noticed that like each year and this year more than others before, more and more people are getting like super into it. You know, the lawns are covered, everybody's got their Halloween decorations up. But you know, I have, I have a take on this. [00:51:36] Speaker A: It's welcome. [00:51:39] Speaker B: I think one of the reasons that people like spooky season so much is for one, like, obviously people like horror, right? We like being scared, things like that. Sure. Basic idea. We like the vibes. People like autumn and Halloween is synonymous with autumn. But also Halloween is a holiday with no strings. You're not expected to see your family. You're not expected to like, have a big dinner. You. You're just expected to like, sit, maybe dress in a silly costume, take your kids out, dress them up cute, get candy, see your neighbors, whatever, go home, watch your horror movies and that's it. I think that's really appealing to people, especially as everything gets terrible. The idea that you just have a day that's like, it's just cute. [00:52:29] Speaker A: It can mean different things to different people. There's no, there isn't necessarily any religious demand. [00:52:35] Speaker B: Right. [00:52:35] Speaker A: You aren't expected to attend anything. [00:52:37] Speaker B: You don't gotta go to church, nothing like that. You can turn off the lights on your house and you know, like your brother does and say fuck the trick or treaters and just sit inside and do what you want. Like, no stakes, no obligations. It's just a nice time, of course. [00:52:52] Speaker A: And I. And I'm self aware enough to know that it's a reflection of me than it is anything else. [00:52:57] Speaker B: You're being grumpy. [00:52:58] Speaker A: Yeah, but it's winding me up this year. I think we're going to a scare maze on Friday. [00:53:03] Speaker B: Oh, I don't, I don't do that shit. Like, is it corn? What is it? How does. [00:53:07] Speaker A: It isn't corn, I don't think, but. [00:53:11] Speaker B: It'S like an inside maze where people fucking jump at you. [00:53:14] Speaker A: I think it is. Yeah, I think it is. [00:53:16] Speaker B: Oh, no, couldn't be me. No. I learned early on I have, I, you know, I have older brothers and things like that. So I think, you know, my reflexes are strong for a touch of violence. [00:53:30] Speaker A: Projectile. [00:53:31] Speaker B: Well, worse. I am the projectile. I remember one time going to there's like a mummy maze at Universal Studios that they used to have. I think it's been gone for like 15 years, but I was walking through it with friend of the cast, Ben, when we were in high school. And I don't. I'm terrified of things jumping out at me. And someone like kind of came from the wall and lunged at me and I immediately pulled my fist back, just grabbed it. No, no, no, no, no. We don't punch the monsters. That's not how we do. Walter, stop. And I realized this is not for me because I do violence. But also, I think I've said before, I also at Universal Studios, I went through the Walking Dead one and made it through the whole thing just like head on a swivel, like, don't let anything jump out at me. Got to the very end of that thing. And a woman I Didn't see. Reached through a fence and I screamed for so long and so loud that I had time to think, who's screaming? Oh. Oh, my God, that's me. I was so scared. So, no, I don't. I don't do those things. I don't like it. [00:54:48] Speaker A: Yeah, well, your family does. Well, not. Not traditionally. [00:54:53] Speaker B: Full report. [00:54:54] Speaker A: Full report on next week's episode, of course. But yeah, Owen has been banging on. He wants to do this, he wants to do that. So. All right, it's. [00:55:04] Speaker B: It's not even the horror movie kid who wants to do it. [00:55:07] Speaker A: Nah, no, not at all. [00:55:08] Speaker B: It's the YouTube kid. That's the. That's the issue. [00:55:10] Speaker A: You've absolutely hit the nail on the head. And. And that is exactly what he is more and more is, is a YouTube kid. His language and his turns of speech, everything is crazy. Oh, it's so irritating. Oh, my goodness. [00:55:31] Speaker B: I like when you get annoyed that he says American things, dad. [00:55:34] Speaker A: That's crazy. Is it, though, mate? Those were literally my words to him in the car yesterday. Oh, and is it. Is it crazy, though? Fucking think about it, mate. Is it crazy? Is it really crazy? [00:55:47] Speaker B: Amazing. I definitely want to report back on this because I don't. I mean, when was the last time you went to something like that? [00:55:54] Speaker A: Oh, God, not in living memory. I mean, I. I, as you know, I enjoy. I enjoy theater. [00:56:02] Speaker B: You do? Yes. [00:56:03] Speaker A: And I see things from a performer's point of view. In fact, perfect place to jump in on this. So we've had a weekend away, right? We've been to York for a couple of. A couple of nights just to get away for half term. And unbeknownst to me, York is apparently quite a haunted town. [00:56:22] Speaker B: Come on, man. How do you not know I know this? [00:56:26] Speaker A: No, I didn't know this. I. I had no clue. I had absolutely no clue about this beautiful, beautiful city. A little too busy for my tastes. Shoulder to shoulder, very cold. But we ate some lovely food, saw some, you know, did lots of fun, touristy stuff. [00:56:41] Speaker B: Sorry, just real quick, because you mentioned it, like, what. What food did you eat? You don't have to make a big thing of it, but I want. [00:56:45] Speaker A: Let me tell you what I. Let me tell you what sticks out in my mind. [00:56:50] Speaker B: I have to know. [00:56:52] Speaker A: A. A pistachio crepe. Oh, my God. [00:56:57] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:56:58] Speaker A: Let me tell you, that's. [00:57:00] Speaker B: That's your highlight, huh? [00:57:01] Speaker A: Was fucking lovely. So crepe on a. You know, on a circular kind of griddle and folded. [00:57:09] Speaker B: And I appreciate your explaining it because apparently The Guardian thinks that Americans don't know what crepes are, so. Oh, it's important that you tell us. [00:57:17] Speaker A: But you do. Yes, yes. And amongst the layers, there was a layer of kind of berry compote. Like a raspberry kind of. [00:57:26] Speaker B: I do like a raspberry compote. [00:57:28] Speaker A: Delicious. [00:57:28] Speaker B: It's about the only time I like. [00:57:31] Speaker A: A raspberry Corrigan white chocolate. [00:57:34] Speaker B: Oh, nice, right. [00:57:36] Speaker A: Pistachio butter. [00:57:39] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:57:40] Speaker A: And hear me out. Cardamom seeds. [00:57:45] Speaker B: Interesting. I had a whole conversation with the girls about cardamom last night. And so that fascinates me. [00:57:50] Speaker A: My goodness. Initially, I thought I'd made a mistake because I was eating around the edges and I was like, ah, shit. But then you get closer to the middle and everything comes together and it was absolutely transcendent. It was beautiful. [00:58:04] Speaker B: It's not a thing I would have chosen, but I am fascinated. [00:58:06] Speaker A: Delicious. Just absolutely delicious. So anyway, there you go. [00:58:09] Speaker B: If you are ever in York, you know what to order. [00:58:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Please do. It was. It was. Oh, it was stunning. And we went on a ghost tour, right? [00:58:19] Speaker B: Yes. This was great. Tell me about the, like, decision making process of this too, because the trip was a surprise. Your wife was like, all right, we're going on an adventure. Everybody get. [00:58:29] Speaker A: Not telling you where. Let's go. [00:58:31] Speaker B: Yes. [00:58:32] Speaker A: And it was all a surprise. And we were told just when. When we got there. Oh, yeah. And tomorrow night we're going on a ghost tour. Okay. [00:58:40] Speaker B: Oh, so she picked it. I thought you said that was like a family. [00:58:43] Speaker A: No. [00:58:44] Speaker B: Oh, you said there was like a family decision. [00:58:46] Speaker A: No, no, no. She booked this. She booked this all. [00:58:48] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:58:48] Speaker A: And you. There were like overlapping tours going on, right. At night at York. There's a fucking wizard tour happening over there. There's a fucking murder tour over there. Da, da, da, da. [00:58:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:59:00] Speaker A: So we. [00:59:01] Speaker B: They have to pause and vamp for a little bit while, like the crew from one. [00:59:04] Speaker A: Exactly that. So a group of about 20 people gathers at the pre, you know, the right time. And a geezer walks over and he's got a top hat and he's got like a black leather surgeon's hold all, you know, the ones like an old Jack the Ripper type doctory kind of bag. And he's got a cape and he's got a stepladder and he's ringing a little bell, right? [00:59:36] Speaker B: And. [00:59:39] Speaker A: Like the, like some kind of Pied Piper character. We follow this geezer around various streets in York City center and he tells us a little tale of each one. And it's, you know, It's. It was kind of just. [00:59:55] Speaker B: Was there because, you know, we've talked about my tour of Bath. [01:00:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:00] Speaker B: And how the thing that I thought was so funny about it is that, like, they weren't even, like, grounded really in real events, like, where it was like, that didn't happen. Was there any grounding on this Whit. [01:00:14] Speaker A: Not a jock. [01:00:15] Speaker B: That is crazy to me. You're in England. It's old. [01:00:19] Speaker A: Not the slightest fucking iota of historical accuracy. Just fully made up to anything this geezer said. Right. Parlor tricks. At one point, the tale he was telling called for, you know, the old prop knife through the wrist gag. [01:00:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:41] Speaker A: Gives us one of them. Throws a cup of water at us. For some reason, just unhinged. Stood below like residential flats. [01:00:53] Speaker B: Right. [01:00:53] Speaker A: And, you know, told us all to look up one of the windows and shout and things. We might see a ghost. [01:00:58] Speaker B: Just. Yeah. [01:00:59] Speaker A: This must be so irritating for the good people of York. [01:01:03] Speaker B: Yeah. This is. It's interesting, though. I'm wondering, like, have you been on other ghost tours? [01:01:09] Speaker A: No, not that I remember. I think it probably is my first one. Yes. [01:01:13] Speaker B: Okay. I'm just curious if this is maybe like a. A cultural difference thing or something like that. Like, maybe. Maybe British ghost tours are just more storytelling than ours are. [01:01:24] Speaker A: This one was, you know, look, was it a load of fun? Yes. The boys enjoyed it a lot. Yes. But it was. It was just some geezer spending an hour. [01:01:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:01:34] Speaker A: Just chatting in various doorways. The setting for a bit of it was. Was spectacular. There's a stunning cathedral in York, York Minster, which some of it took place outside of. So it was. It. Yeah, it was silly fun, but it. But. But just absolute Gubbins, man. This man was talking complete shit. [01:01:56] Speaker B: Gubbins. [01:01:57] Speaker A: Gubbins. Just a load of gubbins. This fella was talking. One of the stories was about a girl, a young child who got the plague. And appearance. The plague. Corrigan. And she was locked in her room with the plague. And you might see her. [01:02:13] Speaker B: Look. [01:02:13] Speaker A: If you look up, some people see. No, she did not. Yeah, just. Just a load of gubbins. But it was theatrical gubbins and there was crowd participation and magic tricks and all manner of chicanery, but a lot of fun. [01:02:29] Speaker B: Did they. Did he give, like, the crowd, like, ghost hunting things? I've noticed a common one lately, like the dowsing rods. [01:02:36] Speaker A: No, he didn't. And one of the other tours had, like, PKE meters, you know, One of the other tours had, like, ghostbuster, ghost detector kind of things. I was A little bit jealous. Yeah, exactly. I was a little bit jelly of those guys, but we had trickery and we. And we got wet, you know, there. [01:02:56] Speaker B: Was a splash zone. You went on Ghost Tour 4D. [01:02:59] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah. But it was a lot of fun and not something I would have expected Laura to book for us. So it was. [01:03:04] Speaker B: I know. Yeah. That's a very fun little swerve. [01:03:07] Speaker A: Excellent job stepping outside of your comfort zone. We also went to the Viking experience. [01:03:16] Speaker B: That's right. Yes. [01:03:18] Speaker A: Viking hot spot. York Jorvik, as it was known. [01:03:22] Speaker B: Okay. [01:03:24] Speaker A: Didn't quite push me into a Viking era. [01:03:27] Speaker B: Okay, so you're not gonna be binging. [01:03:30] Speaker A: The series super into Vikings for 10 minutes? No. [01:03:34] Speaker B: Okay. [01:03:34] Speaker A: But it was very interesting, very fascinating. I do like a Viking. They were shitheads, though. [01:03:43] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, isn't like the thing that we associate with Viking colonizers and pillaging. Yeah, colonizers going into places and fucking shit up. [01:03:53] Speaker A: Exactly this. And as I learned the other day, slavers, they would send British people back home to be enslaved. [01:04:04] Speaker B: Are they the ones who was supposed to have enslaved St. Patrick? [01:04:09] Speaker A: Oh, I don't know that. [01:04:10] Speaker B: Oh, I can't remember. [01:04:12] Speaker A: I do not know that. [01:04:15] Speaker B: Somebody enslaved him. I don't know. The white people were all enslaving each other back in the day. [01:04:19] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:04:20] Speaker B: I didn't know that. [01:04:22] Speaker A: Not good folks, but a lot of fun. There was a very, very fun little kind of ride. So you sit in the little car and you go around kind of like. Imagine like, a fun fair ghost train with, like, animatronic Vikings. Dude. While it tells you to. [01:04:38] Speaker B: Okay. This is a thing that I do see a lot in British museums is the element of, like, some sort of car. So, like, the Titanic Museum in Belfast has a little ride. The Post Office Museum in London has a little train in it that's diesel. [01:04:52] Speaker A: That's got to be bleak. [01:04:55] Speaker B: I enjoyed it, but it is a very small train. But, yeah, this having one, I feel like this is like a museum technology that the Brits are on the. Like. [01:05:07] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But this one was to put you. [01:05:09] Speaker B: In a little car. [01:05:10] Speaker A: This one was excellent. And you know what they did, Corrigan? They also. They claimed faithfully, but they'd recreated the smells of the. [01:05:19] Speaker B: I don't know about that. [01:05:20] Speaker A: Of a Viking town as well. Fish and offal and rats. There was a little animatronic rat. There was like a barrel of eels flapping away merrily and you could smell them and very pungent smells. As you went around this tour, I'm Always iffy on. [01:05:41] Speaker B: On smell things. I think I have, like, a very sensitive sense of smell. And I don't love when I am, like, affronted with things like that. [01:05:52] Speaker A: Was it pleasant? No. Was it fascinating? You betcha. [01:05:57] Speaker B: Interesting. [01:05:57] Speaker A: Very. It was. It was very interesting. So we went on the Viking tour. We went on a ghost hunt, and we also did a tour of a chocolate museum. York. Big chocolate town. [01:06:10] Speaker B: Oh, okay. It's just a. Just a big everything town. [01:06:13] Speaker A: They got so much going on, a. [01:06:15] Speaker B: Lot of things going on. [01:06:16] Speaker A: Big chocolate town. York's chocolate company. So we had a little tour of chocolate. History of chocolate. Fucking eat some chocolate. Look at some chocolate. [01:06:27] Speaker B: Sure. [01:06:27] Speaker A: Good. [01:06:28] Speaker B: I bet that smelled a lot better than the Viking Museum. [01:06:30] Speaker A: It did. The Viking Museum stank. Had a little talk about Viking kind of weaponry and armament. I can't just shock you for a second. Big fan of chainmail. Really enjoyed chainmail. [01:06:47] Speaker B: Really? [01:06:47] Speaker A: Yes. [01:06:48] Speaker B: And I have a friend on Blue sky who makes chainmail. [01:06:51] Speaker A: Well, interesting, you might say. This caused me to remember from my dim and distant past the job that Laura and I had where we met. [01:07:01] Speaker B: Right, right. [01:07:02] Speaker A: The place where we first met in Aberystwyth, in the call center where you would call 192 and get a phone number. Right. There was a character there, guy by the name of Dave. Went by Metallica Dave. [01:07:17] Speaker B: Right, sure. [01:07:19] Speaker A: Because he would listen to Metallica with Dave, and I wonder if he's still. I wonder if he's still alive. [01:07:28] Speaker B: Right. Has it been that. [01:07:29] Speaker A: Well, 20 years have passed? [01:07:32] Speaker B: Yeah, it's more than that. Probably. [01:07:33] Speaker A: Probably. Well, yeah, probably a bit more than that. And. And I did. I hope. [01:07:37] Speaker B: Was he old or was he just. [01:07:39] Speaker A: He was older than me. So he's gonna be in his 50s by now. Six sixties by now. Metallica Dave went missing once. [01:07:46] Speaker B: What? [01:07:47] Speaker A: He went missing once. But he turned up and he. We would do the night shift, Right. And Metallica Dave, he would sit on his. Oh, I don't know where he went. This is. This is adjunct to the. To the point that he went missing. [01:07:59] Speaker B: Okay. [01:07:59] Speaker A: He just went missing. But Metallica Dave, he would sit apart from the rest of us. So I. Some listeners of the cast would. I'm hoping this brings back an evocative time. Right. We would. We would work night shifts. We would go through the night and nobody would ring, man. And we would just goof off and chat and read our magazines and smoke the odd bifta. You know what I'm saying? [01:08:23] Speaker B: Sure. [01:08:24] Speaker A: Right. But Metallica Dave would sit on the other end of the room, keeping himself to himself. And he would work through the night with a pair of needle nose pliers and a lot of metal string crafting his own fucking chainmail for what? Fuck knows. No idea. Those long dark Welsh nights on his own doing, you know, doing, doing his job. Doing enough to get paid and making chain mail. [01:09:04] Speaker B: Metallica Dave, you know Keo is known for telling stories like this to me and the girls where it's like, like he has told us one of a guy who went missing, right? And we're like where'd he go? Oh, I didn't ask him like things like this. I'm like is this just a men thing? Like oh that's none of my business. He's making Shane mail. What for? I don't know. Fucking not my business. [01:09:25] Speaker A: Not gonna fucking ask him. Hey Dave. [01:09:28] Speaker B: I would know everything about Dave. [01:09:31] Speaker A: Oh no, no, no. [01:09:32] Speaker B: I would know his experience, extended family's names and birthdays, something man. [01:09:37] Speaker A: There were some characters in that place. [01:09:41] Speaker B: Well, having watched Telemarketers I feel like I deeply understand sort of the call center. [01:09:45] Speaker A: There were some characters. There was Betty and Betty, if she had worse joints than you, right? [01:09:55] Speaker B: Wow. [01:09:55] Speaker A: And I don't know if it was RSI from the job or what, but she had like a special, almost like a plinth that she would, you know, like modok, right? She had like a technologically advanced fucking mega chair and her wrist was fucking strapped up and her ankles was strapped up on her neck. She was like ossified. [01:10:19] Speaker B: Work from home era is working out well. [01:10:22] Speaker A: I'll bet he's long gone. I guarantee you bet he is no longer with us. That was a fucking era. And from those dark nights from that job is everything is, is everything that I now look around me. As you know my, my legacy came from that fucking place, man. Friends I still hold dear to this day. [01:10:48] Speaker B: You know this is a thing about me that I often think about. The just like happenstance that brings us. [01:10:54] Speaker A: To oh listen the things. Sliding doors, baby. [01:10:57] Speaker B: Butterfly effect like with us. The fact that if you had not for sure posted a random thing about none of this. What's Krampus? And I manually retweeted and you followed me there. None, none, none, none of this would have happened and like that, like that or you know. Kyo was asked by his friend to come work at Vanguard and he was like you know what? Yeah, I'll come there. Like it's just these like little things and I've said before sometimes it stresses me out what is like that's what. [01:11:26] Speaker A: Our life is, isn't it? It's. [01:11:28] Speaker B: Yep. [01:11:29] Speaker A: Just a tumbling series of dominoes and fucking bones landing where they may. That's what this is. [01:11:37] Speaker B: The other day I was walking in the park and I was taking a picture of Walter and I stood up and there was another dog coming over to sniff him out of nowhere. And ended up in this conversation with this gal who, like, we are like the same person, more or less. Just having this whole conversation with her for like 15 minutes and got her Instagram or whatever. But I'm like, literally, I was about. We were going different paths down this park or whatever, and if I had like not paused to take a picture, never would have encountered this person. We just would have walked two different directions. Right. Like, it's just every little stupid thing is like something's going to happen or. [01:12:18] Speaker A: It'S not endlessly fascinating to me. You know, all of those could have been. All of those might have done. [01:12:24] Speaker B: It's always been a thing. Like, you know how I've said before that, like, when I was a kid, before Truman show came out, I thought that I was in something like that. That like, everything was hidden cameras and there was a TV show and everyone was watching me. And I. And when Truman show came out, I thought it was like. Like the prank was being revealed to me in this movie. I was just like, yeah, I was like. I mean, like, not fully, but this was like a stress that I had was like, messed up. What if now they're all laughing at me because I'm watching this movie about my life and not realizing that this is. But anyways, that's not the point. I get weird about like that. And so amongst those things is my thought that, like, you know, again, this is since I was a little kid and before I would have ever heard of such theories or things like that. I've always thought that, like, at every second there's a different me that's like, you know, a second behind me. [01:13:17] Speaker A: The mask supports that. [01:13:19] Speaker B: Right. But I didn't know this. Right? This is just a thing that, like my little kid brain wrapped around and that I always have trouble shaking. And so the idea that, well, there's a me right now that did repost your Krampus thing, but there's a me that's a minute behind me that didn't. Who does not have this. And what is she doing with her life? [01:13:39] Speaker A: Exactly. [01:13:39] Speaker B: You know, if. [01:13:41] Speaker A: If it is infinite out there and expanding, not only is there a place where everything has happened, but there's a place where Everything has happened infinite times, and it just falls in itself. Every fucking single thing has happened an infinite amount of times. [01:13:57] Speaker B: And that is happening. [01:13:58] Speaker A: And right now. [01:14:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:14:01] Speaker A: Let me tell you something just while it occurs to me, right? I listened to a podcast this last week, right. And I won't. I won't name them. [01:14:14] Speaker B: Okay? [01:14:15] Speaker A: Right. Because that's probably not cool. Right. [01:14:18] Speaker B: Okay. [01:14:19] Speaker A: But it was on a topic that I. On paper, I should find really interesting. Right. It was about a movie that I love. And I thought, what could be better than to listen to two people talking in some detail about a movie that I enjoy? That would be fantastic, wouldn't it? And me, man, did I listen to. [01:14:36] Speaker B: The. [01:14:38] Speaker A: Blandest couple of. [01:14:42] Speaker B: Oh, no, just that'll happen the most. [01:14:47] Speaker A: Chicken and broccoli ass couple of, man. And is that what. Is that what podcasts are like? [01:14:55] Speaker B: I think a lot of them are. [01:14:56] Speaker A: Yeah, just dry, bland rice, this podcast. [01:15:02] Speaker B: Yeah. This is how a lot of us ended up, like things like dead and lovely or whatever. It's like you. You listen to like 20 podcasts of like two boring white guys until you find the one where they're more entertaining. Yeah. [01:15:15] Speaker A: And weirdly, right, I left invigorated. I. I listened to the whole fucking thing and I thought, like a trillion fucking podcasts that week, no doubt, sound exactly like yours, you couple of fuckers. But you. You. I don't think there's a. In all of the infinite fucking multiversal eventualities and outcomes. I don't think. I truly don't think there's another one like us. [01:15:41] Speaker B: I haven't heard it yet. [01:15:42] Speaker A: Right? So fucking think about that. [01:15:50] Speaker B: Indeed, as we have ram rambled and I hope you've enjoyed. I really wanted to. To hear about all of this. This has been a great thing for me. My dog, Walter. It's just. It's like I want to be a part of it too. [01:16:05] Speaker A: And. Well, he might. [01:16:07] Speaker B: Well, he might. Well, should we get into what we wash. Do we have anything else that we need to. [01:16:13] Speaker A: Oh, I don't think so. God, listen. [01:16:18] Speaker B: What we watch. But we. I do want to say we're gonna save the long walk for last for anyone else who still hasn't seen it and doesn't want to get it spoiled. So I. We will announce when we're gonna talk about. It's gonna be the last thing that we talk about so that you can. You can peace out and not have it spoiled for you if you don't want to know anything about it, like Mark and I did going into it. Yes, okay, you were going to say. [01:16:44] Speaker A: Oh, I can't remember. That's gone. Completely gone out of my head. I looked at something else and it's gone. [01:16:51] Speaker B: Well, I have continued my, my spooky watching for the month. Obviously. I went to California for a little bit and went to a wedding and then was hanging out with my little sister. [01:17:05] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, that's right. That's what I was gonna say. I had a blast. I had a lot of fun doing that Lovecraft story last weekend. [01:17:11] Speaker B: Oh, yes, indeed. Yeah. And people seem to enjoy that as well. [01:17:15] Speaker A: Very pleasant feedback from it. And I hope it was as much fun to those who did tune in as it was for me sitting here talking it through. [01:17:24] Speaker B: I still haven't finished it because every time I, I listen to it, I have to start over because I keep falling asleep. Like, oh, this sounds nice. [01:17:32] Speaker A: Okay. In a good way. Right? Okay. [01:17:34] Speaker B: Yeah. No, you have like a soothing, soothing brogue. [01:17:38] Speaker A: Nice. That's good to hear. That's good to hear. [01:17:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:17:40] Speaker A: But yeah, I, I, I, I won't commit to doing those more regularly because I'll just let myself down. But whenever. [01:17:48] Speaker B: Best if they're spontaneous completely. [01:17:50] Speaker A: Whenever the chance comes my way. There's nothing I enjoy more than looking at just literally reading something for the very first time and seeing I'm as surprised at how things come out of my mouth as I hope you are. So, yeah, a good laugh. Thank you. And I get a nice opportunity. [01:18:04] Speaker B: Yeah, it was very nice and I really appreciated it because, yeah, like I said, I was in California and kind of, you know, tired. And there was the time difference goes from five to eight hours when I'm over there. And I was like, this is just, I don't have time to write a cold open and all that. So I literally just like, the day of was like, mark, would you mind reading a story? And you turned up and everybody loved it. [01:18:28] Speaker A: Very happy to do so. [01:18:30] Speaker B: Thank you for that. And yeah, so while with my sister. My sister doesn't really watch movies, and when she does, she tends to watch them in, like, pieces. So, like, it'll take her. She was watching Happy Gilmore 2 and it took her like, two weeks because she was just watching it in, like, one little chunk at a time. So when I'm with her, that's when she watches some things. So I introduced her this week to Megan, which she didn't like, but also she was drinking, so I think that might have impacted things. [01:19:04] Speaker A: How do you not like Megan, by the way? [01:19:06] Speaker B: I know, exactly. I was like, she at the End of it. She was like, oh, it's interesting that, like, Ronny Cheng is like a lead role in this. I was like, he is not a lead role. This. What? You did not watch this movie. That man is in this movie for like maybe seven minutes. So we have to watch that again sometime. But I did try to introduce her to Megan, but I was more successful with Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice, she absolutely loved that. Which. [01:19:32] Speaker A: How does it stand up on a rewatch? [01:19:35] Speaker B: Oh, I've seen it five times. [01:19:36] Speaker A: Oh, fine. Okay, fine, fine, fine. [01:19:39] Speaker B: It's become like such a huge comfort movie for me, like, if I don't know what I want to do or whatever. Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice goes right on. And also introduced her to Pride and Prejudice and Zombies, which she also loved. She was like, I hate Pride and Prejudice. Am I gonna like this? And I was like, oh, I hate Pride and Prejudice too. I can't stand it. But Pride and Prejudice and Zombies, again, comfort movie, one that I can watch any fucking time. So we watched that and she absolutely loved that as well, which is delightful. So got to share those with her. Two out of three ain't bad. [01:20:18] Speaker A: No, not at all. Not at all. Particularly considering the time of year is. It's been such a weird fucking spell of movies. Right. Just to talk of Owen for a little bit. My 11 year old, very impressionable kid. Right? Yeah, just super impression. [01:20:38] Speaker B: A man after my own heart. [01:20:39] Speaker A: Yeah. And. And look, he's his father's son in every way, but he's got a teacher in his new school who's a big star. Right. So he decides he's gonna watch them all. [01:20:52] Speaker B: Right, nice. [01:20:54] Speaker A: And that's cute. [01:20:56] Speaker B: Good. He's doing it because of a teacher. [01:20:57] Speaker A: That. Yeah, that is cute. Actually. That is. That is actually quite wholesome. And I jumped on at Return of the Jedi. Right. [01:21:09] Speaker B: Is that the second or third one? [01:21:11] Speaker A: That's the third one. Okay. I'll speak briefly on Return of the Jedi. I'll speak briefly on Star wars as a whole. Return of the Jedi is a terrible fucking movie, right? Until. Until suddenly it isn't. [01:21:26] Speaker B: Okay. [01:21:27] Speaker A: So strange. The two thirds of the film is. Is slow and it's janky and scenes don't flow well into one another at all. It feels just labored. Just the reputation Star wars has for awful dialogue is so thoroughly deserved. Just awful, awful, awful dialogue. But then all of a sudden, two thirds in, you realize, fuck me, I'm so into this. It does that fantastic thing that Star wars at its best does where it culminates in, you know, a huge gung ho, high octane battle sequence that takes place in like three different locations, all with, you know, threads crossing over. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful film that almost sneaks up on you. You know what, what feels slow and painfully fucking drawn out actually is, is, is laying groundwork for you to become really fucking invested in what's going on. Such fun. Such, such, such fun. And then so jarring. So fucking gives you whiplash to go from that to the absolute train wreck and your revisionism, right? Absolutely it in the eye. There's plenty of people I know who will go, well, you know, you'll watch the prequels now, and they're good, aren't they? You, they're worse. [01:23:09] Speaker B: I think a lot of millennials really like those. Like, I am indifferent because I just don't like Star Wars. At the time that I saw them in the theater, like, they were fine. I've said before, like, I had a Jar Jar Binks towel. Like, I, I thought that they were like, just fine. My sister actually still, she just was folding it the other day. She still has her Darth Maul towel that is like, it barely. Can you see that he is on it and it's frayed at all the edges. But like, we were into it and I think like, just like, older people really love those original ones. The like, people who were like, you know, 10 years old or whatever when these came out. Like, still. [01:23:53] Speaker A: No, they're good from 2025's perspective, they are even worse than they seemed at the first time. And they were awful the first time around. But now it's. It's incredible to think that somebody sat down and wrote that dialogue. It's so bad. Like, yeah, badly delivered and just lines stick in my memory like a fucking shot of glass in the second one. Attack of the Clones, if you can believe it's called that. [01:24:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:24:28] Speaker A: Just the dialogue is so fucking bad that at one point Natalie Portman says, oh, they, they seem to be construction towers of some manner or of some kind. It's just terrible. It's shit as fuck, all three of them. And I've said before, right, that no one I know can binge a series LEGO in, right? Yeah, he just inhales content. He, you know, he'll watch a TV show over a couple of days, he'll watch a series of movies. He noped out after the Force Awakens and just checked out completely. [01:25:05] Speaker B: He'll never trust a teacher again. [01:25:07] Speaker A: Terrible because the Force Awakens is just as bad as the prequels just in A different way. [01:25:14] Speaker B: That's the first of the most recent. [01:25:16] Speaker A: Exactly this ones, Right? Exactly this. Just as bad as the prequels, but in entirely different kind of way. Way. Again, same awful dialogue, same just no flow to these. These films. Just things happen scene to scene to scene. Star wars is. I hate it. I absolutely hate it. If I never see Star wars again, it'll be too soon. I detest it. [01:25:45] Speaker B: Yeah, welcome to my world. I just don't watch the minute. I mean, I did see all but the. What's. What's the last one? [01:25:51] Speaker A: Oh, I don't even want to say the title. It's so shit. [01:25:55] Speaker B: Just tell me what it is. [01:25:56] Speaker A: It's called Corrigan, if you can believe it, right? It's called the Rise of Skywalker, if you can believe that's what it's called. Can you believe it? [01:26:04] Speaker B: I have not seen that one. That was when I finally stopped Anna Martin ing the Star Wars. I was like, listen, I can't even. [01:26:10] Speaker A: Fucking believe that that is what that film is called. It's terrible. [01:26:15] Speaker B: I mean, it's from the series that has Attack of the Clones. So, yeah, I can believe it. [01:26:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:26:22] Speaker B: I always think I'm getting that wrong because I'm like, that certainly cannot be the name of a film. [01:26:26] Speaker A: So bad. [01:26:27] Speaker B: That's not a thing. And. [01:26:32] Speaker A: But yeah, by. By the second or third prequel, Owen and I were just cracking one another up with just quotes, you know what I mean? Just enjoying. I'm gonna show you. I'm not gonna talk about it anymore because I hate it. I fucking hate it. There's one bit right in. I think it's the second one, Attack of the Clones, where liam. No, Ewan McGregor is talking to Yoda or something. And they've got a room full of Jedi trainees, the younglings, right? And Yoda calls to one of them to tell him to draw the blinds or something. And the kid's name is Liam. Liam. The fucking kid. This Jedi apprentice is called Liam. All right. [01:27:10] Speaker B: Forever. That's a very like. Like a dune kind of thing where it's like you've got like, you know, these very space age things, and then you've just got Duncan, like Duncan Idaho or something. [01:27:26] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:27:29] Speaker B: Okay, sure. Well, great. I watched. Oh, remember? So a couple months ago, we watched a movie that, you know, had potential and then kind of squandered it. Got real slow and boring. That was like a alien feature made by a family called the Addams Family. And it was like these. They were somewhere north and they find hell Hole was what it was called Hell Hole. We watched. [01:27:57] Speaker A: No, I don't remember that. [01:27:59] Speaker B: You. You'd remember it if I were explaining it better. But anyways, we watched this movie and we were like, you know, it starts strong and then there's just too much people seeing. Standing around talking. Doesn't quite hit the mark. Whatever. [01:28:10] Speaker A: Is that the one where they've kind of constructed like a biodome? [01:28:15] Speaker B: I don't think it's a biome. [01:28:16] Speaker A: And you can't go outside the Bio Dome. And they're protecting the perimeter. And maybe they're British. And it's kind of like the others. Oh, dad went beyond the perimeter. Do you think Daddy will come back? And it's also sort of like the guest. And a guy comes into the Bio Dome and he's an outsider, but he wins their trust. Come on, Come on, Come on. I'm not making this up. And there's a. And the mother is kind of maybe a witch. Like a space witch. [01:28:42] Speaker B: A space witch. [01:28:43] Speaker A: Yeah. I've got watch tonight on the perimeter. And it's a kid and he's got a rifle. Is that Father? Father. And it's not him. And they're in space and there's. Oh, maybe it's Earth. Maybe there's a disease. [01:28:56] Speaker B: Is this a dream? What's a dream? [01:28:58] Speaker A: You had Absolutely. A film. It's like an independent, but it's got big ambition. This film. [01:29:05] Speaker B: This feels like a thing you may have watched without me. [01:29:07] Speaker A: And they're farming. No. Did I? We were texting. They're farming and they've got crops. Oh, don't forget to put your mask on, sir. And he's got. He's taking off his mask. And they realize maybe it's a lie. [01:29:23] Speaker B: Okay, that maybe sounds a little familiar. [01:29:27] Speaker A: Do you think Father's coming back to, like, Mother? And. And he sleeps with the sister. The bloke who's the Outsider. He and the sister have. He and the sister have a relationship. But she's killed her previous boyfriend. And she's got his artifacts in a box under the bed. Come on. [01:29:44] Speaker B: There is no way this is a real movie. Are you messing with me? [01:29:47] Speaker A: She's got, like, a talisman that she stole from her last boyfriend. And she thinks that the Outsider is maybe him. [01:29:56] Speaker B: When are we supposed to avoid this fucking film? [01:29:59] Speaker A: Right? And you're gonna read the plot description and it's gonna be exactly as I've told you here. [01:30:05] Speaker B: This is unhinged. [01:30:06] Speaker A: I've laid this movie out in absolute perfect detail. I remember it vividly. And I'm. I'm stunned that you can't remember this. [01:30:13] Speaker B: Well, it's not hellhole, I can tell you that much. Which is very much not British or in space or a biodome or plague. [01:30:25] Speaker A: Space plague or Earth future plague or something like that. [01:30:30] Speaker B: Nothing. This is from a different timeline, I think, this piercing through. But no. So everyone, like, I read the reviews of that one on letterboxd and people said, you know, oh, I watched this because I really like their other movies. And it's a family and they make films pretty much just them. They act in them, they shoot them, all of that kind of stuff. And they're known as the Addams Family. And so I watched one of their other movies the other day called the deeper you dig. And I think you would actually enjoy this one a lot. It's vibesy, it's gory. It's basically about this woman who kind of works as like a psychic, more or less, and she lives with her daughter who is 14, and they live kind of out in like the cold wilderness. And one night the daughter is hit by this guy who's drunk driving, and he carries her home and avoiding trying to get in trouble when he realizes she's not dead, he then murders her. [01:31:43] Speaker A: Nice. [01:31:44] Speaker B: And is then sort of, you know. So the mother is trying to sort of figure out what happened to her and what she kind of realizes, like, oh, she's definitely dead. She's trying to sort of contact her in the beyond, which then becomes this sort of battle between the murderer and the teen daughter for his consciousness. [01:32:03] Speaker A: What kind of gory are we talking about? [01:32:06] Speaker B: I mean, there's like, you know, all kinds of, like, vomiting blood, dead animals, and, you know, all kinds of stuff going on in this thing. It's like. It's not like a slasher or anything like that, but there's just a lot of, like, incidental gore and stuff like that in this movie. So the deeper you dig that one, I'm like, okay, now I see why people really like this family. They do cool stuff. And now I want to watch some of their other things. Big recommend, that one. And on the ghosty thing, of course, rewatched Ghost watch the other day. Yeah, still awesome. [01:32:41] Speaker A: Still enjoying it to this day. I've only ever saw it on its original broadcast. Haven't seen it since. [01:32:46] Speaker B: Well, it's on shutter now, so I love. [01:32:50] Speaker A: I love the. The niche that fucking show was carved out, though. It's part of the law now, isn't it? It's part of the canon, right? [01:32:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I think it's. It's fun to like, explain to people. Like, okay, so let me tell you what this was. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How the impact this had on British kids at the time. Right? Like, it just does what it does so well. So Ghostwatches on shudder. You can watch it there and have a good time. Good Halloween night movie, I think. [01:33:18] Speaker A: Beautiful. I do. I do apologize. I'm. I'm looking for this fucking movie. Isolation. Know that isn't it? [01:33:26] Speaker B: While you do that, I. [01:33:29] Speaker A: Mark, go on. [01:33:31] Speaker B: I watched. I watched the last Conjuring movie. [01:33:34] Speaker A: Oh, why? [01:33:36] Speaker B: I just, you know, I gotta. I gotta complete it. You know, I gotta get there, finish out these things. Oh, here's the thing about the Conjuring. And by the way, I will be on the podcast the Crumbling. [01:33:50] Speaker A: Oh week. [01:33:52] Speaker B: We recorded it a week or two ago talking about the Warrens, which obviously we've talked about on here before, but. But we discussed the Warrens at length. So, you know, keep everyone posted on. [01:34:02] Speaker A: Yeah, Pete saw the first one a few nights back. [01:34:05] Speaker B: Yeah. And listen, the thing is, I like the first one still. I think the first two, most people will acknowledge solid, you know, they're solid movies. And then I've said it before, the problem is that your two leads are too hot and have great chemistry and they change into movies that are primarily about how wonderful Ed and Lorraine Warren are and how beautiful and passionate their love is. [01:34:34] Speaker A: Yes, I made sure to tell Pete that. I made sure to point out to. [01:34:38] Speaker B: Him, like, these people are terrible. And so it's like galling if you know anything about them. And it's boring to watch in horror movies, these things that are now just like, just romance dressed up as. As horror movies. And boy, the Conjuring Last rites is just unwatchable. I thought the devil made me do it was unwatchable, but I was wrong. This is. It's like 2 hours and 15 minutes, maybe even more than that. Way too long and just boring all the way through. Also, there's like a plot line. Lots of people have commented on this on letterboxd, that, you know, the real Ed Lauren had helped Warren had health problems. You know, he was a big dude who, like, ate poorly and things like that. And they gave Movie Ed Warren the health problems too. But it's. It's Patrick Wilson. [01:35:30] Speaker A: What led to you watching this and what were you expecting? [01:35:33] Speaker B: I mean, I was expecting this, to be honest. I wasn't expecting good. Don't get me wrong. Although I had just watched Annabelle, you know, a week or so before. And I still love that movie. But, no, I knew it was going to be bad. But it's so funny because this whole movie, there's like this whole plot line where it's like, he can't eat this, he can't eat that. There's a line where he says, I wish I could have lasagna, that everyone keeps quoting, but he looks like Patrick Wilson. Like, there is no moment where you're like, oh, yeah, yeah. This guy's had four heart attacks. Like, he's super ripped and super hot. Let's. Let's be real here. So I do not recognize the conjuring last rites. Just FYI. [01:36:12] Speaker A: Wouldn't watch it with yours. Yeah, absolutely. Never going. [01:36:18] Speaker B: Other people might, that's for sure. I watched Hocus Pocus last night because it was on tv. I normally save that for Halloween, but it was on tv, so I watched it. [01:36:28] Speaker A: That's. Do you know what? That's actually one of the things which is pissing me off about this Halloween. Hocus Pocus is everywhere. And it's. It's. It's shorthand everywhere. You know, it's on fucking outdoor movie screening. [01:36:40] Speaker B: It's safe, you know? [01:36:41] Speaker A: Yeah. It's bland. [01:36:45] Speaker B: Beetlejuice is the big one that's everywhere for us. Like, that is. It's all the outdoor things. It's. They're now doing on one channel, 24 hours of Beetlejuice. Like, Christmas Story. Yeah. Like, it's bonkers. How much Beetlejuice has become the thing. Yeah. Very weird. [01:37:05] Speaker A: No, I can't find it. I can't find it, but I will. [01:37:09] Speaker B: Okay. Not entirely convinced you didn't dream it, but do let me know if you figure it out. I watched an old movie called the Tingler, which. [01:37:22] Speaker A: I not seen it, but was that not famously. Did. Did the fucking filmmaker not, like shock moviegoers? Did this have, like, electric shock seats? [01:37:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:37:36] Speaker A: Is that the one? [01:37:37] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He had a gimmick. Yeah. Where he, like, put little buzzers or whatever in people's seats. And there's a point where, like, the lights go out in the movie and the people in the movie are also in a movie theater, and you just hear screaming in the movie, but in real life, then there were buzzers in people's seats, and so they also, you know, allegedly screamed and stuff. [01:38:00] Speaker A: Although couldn't do that. [01:38:02] Speaker B: No. And during the TCM sort of outro for this, the host was saying that, like, there's a good chance a lot of those people were like, actors. Anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, we're so scared or whatever to build up the reputation. But it's a. Yeah. William Castle is the director. He's known for his gimmicks. And it's a Vincent Price starring movie where he is a doctor who is convinced that we all have a parasite at the base of our spine. That when we're afraid if we don't scream, the parasite will kill us. [01:38:46] Speaker A: Us. Nice. [01:38:47] Speaker B: And so it's important that we scream. And he tests this theory out when he meets a deaf mute woman who can't scream and scares her to death. But then the parasite gets out of the woman and goes on like, you know, a spree or whatever. And yeah, it's a fun little movie from 1959. You get Vincent Price being Vincent Price. And the Tingler is a hilarious like giant. Like it's way too big. If this were in your spine, you'd be walking around with a hump. Like, you know, it's just way too big and on wires that sometimes you can see. You know, the legs don't really move because it's being like hopped along. [01:39:29] Speaker A: Black and white. [01:39:30] Speaker B: It's very fun. Black and white. Yeah. So, yeah, it's a fun. It's a fun little movie, the Tingler, to just kind of, you know. But as people have pointed out, like it. If like little kids are watching it, it actually does have some like really scary, genuinely scary moments in it. So, you know, you don't necessarily show it to like your 5 year old or whatever. But you know, otherwise, like a very safe and silly kind of early horror movie. That's a lot of fun. [01:39:58] Speaker A: Nice. Very nice. Very nice. Very nice. We watched a fucking dud together. Was it Savage Land? Is that what it was called? [01:40:07] Speaker B: Savage Land? [01:40:08] Speaker A: Hey, talk about fucking alternate realities. Talk about fucking weird parallel lives. A very seemingly well regarded, highly thought of film running at a three and a half on. On letterboxd found footage message. Horror. Yes, agreed. [01:40:27] Speaker B: All message. [01:40:28] Speaker A: All. Yeah. All message. No Horror. Interestingly, the first thing that caught my eye was the studio logo at the start. Terror films. All right. [01:40:39] Speaker B: Did you call that? [01:40:40] Speaker A: Okay, big talk, lads. Let's see what you got. Just for me, the very. When you think of the very worst of what found footage horror is or what documentary style horror is. That's what. That's what's on display here. Just interminable exposition. Just talking heads talking to camera, telling you what has happened and showing you nothing at all. Yeah, A very ropey, flimsy, thinly veiled message about him. You know, hostile Immigration policies being the real baddie. And ghosts. And I think there's zombies. Are they zombies? [01:41:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I think they're supposed to be zombies. [01:41:25] Speaker A: A narrative told entirely through interviews and spooky photos. [01:41:32] Speaker B: A spooky series of photos which are not particularly convincing. A lot of people like, yeah, the photos are really unsettling. I'm like, are we. Again, are we watching different things? I'm not unsettled by this. [01:41:44] Speaker A: Very much felt like that, didn't it? Like there are some nights you just don't see what other people are seeing. And that. And that night completely on display here. I don't know what the fuck movie people are reviewing on letterbox. [01:41:57] Speaker B: The acting is just awful throughout this whole thing. Very cool. What's the thing? I always say kids found footage, lives and dies on the acting. Nobody is convincing in this. And I was saying while we were watching it, I think what's emblematic of what's wrong with this is that our sort of lead character that we are watching in this is an undocumented immigrant who has been arrested and is sort of at the center of this story because he's being accused of all of these murders, but actually he's like, the only witness to them. And he has a sister who is also interviewed throughout this, who still lives in Mexico. Speaks entirely in Spanish the entire movie. You're under the impression that she does not speak English. However, this character not only speaks English, but completely unaccented. Like, California English. He clear. Like, clearly Spanish is not his first language. His Spanish has California accent to it. And I'm like, what? How do you. How do you mess that up? Like, that's a basic thing. As soon as he started talking, I was like, he's supposed to be, like I said, straight from Mexico. And he doesn't talk to people. It's not like, oh, he's just socialized so much that he's like. He's a drifter. He's a loner. [01:43:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:43:13] Speaker B: Why would he have no accent? [01:43:15] Speaker A: Like I said to you at the time, it's as though everyone concerned decided that morning that they were going to make this film. [01:43:21] Speaker B: Right. You guys got something going on? No. I want to make a movie. Yeah, sure. [01:43:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, Exactly. That awful. [01:43:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Do not recommend Savage Land. Do recommend the Fog, John Carpenter's the Fog, which I watched. [01:43:36] Speaker A: Fantastic. [01:43:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, that was just fun. And I happened to watch it, like, the night before leaving for Marin, which was great, because it turned out it was shot in Marin. And I didn't realize that as soon as the lighthouse came up. I was like, that's Point Reyes. It's a very super excited about that. [01:43:51] Speaker A: It's got atmosphere for fucking days. The fog. [01:43:54] Speaker B: Exactly. It's perfect. Like just. It is exactly what you want to sit down with on like a fall night, you know, with my little candle lit in my tea. The fog was absolutely perfect. If you've never seen it or you haven't seen it in a while, now is the time. Watch the fog. It's delightful. [01:44:12] Speaker A: He's turned into a cranky old bastard as an he. John Carpenter. [01:44:16] Speaker B: Carpenter, yeah. Has he? [01:44:17] Speaker A: Oh, for sure. There's a, there's a clip doing the rounds on socials of him currently at a con like a week or so ago where he's talking about the Substance, a film which is beloved of mine, which is a five star, one of the best horror movies I think in the last 20 years. Do you like the Substance? No, I hated it. I hated everything about it. Just a cranky old fucker just smoking. [01:44:46] Speaker B: I just feel like people shouldn't ask people that though. [01:44:49] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. No good. [01:44:52] Speaker B: So ridiculous. He should have just said, I don't want to talk about it. But also don't ask people if they like a movie in front of a crowd. [01:45:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:45:01] Speaker B: You know, unless you're trying to make them look like an asshole. [01:45:05] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes, I completely agree. But again, he could. There's very little. I wouldn't say nothing, but there's very little he could do now to burn through his goodwill. [01:45:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I think at this point, like he's. He's not a sex pest. [01:45:19] Speaker A: Exactly. [01:45:20] Speaker B: Nobody complains about him. If he's a little cranky, fine. That's okay. You're old, you're allowed. You just want to like smoke weed and play video games. Games. And here you are stuck at a con, so. [01:45:31] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly that. [01:45:33] Speaker B: Yes. So now let's just. It's not going to be like a super long conversation or anything, I don't suppose. Well, maybe it will, but we want to talk about the long walk. So if you haven't. Oh wait, you had one more thing. Sorry, there was one that you watched. [01:45:47] Speaker A: Oh no. I don't even want to. I don't even want to talk about Hubie's Halloween. [01:45:52] Speaker B: I heard nothing but terrible things about Hubie Halloween. [01:45:54] Speaker A: Awful. I, I, I, I. If I live to be a 120 years old, I will never understand what people enjoy about Adam Sandler. [01:46:06] Speaker B: I like some Adam Sandler, I won't lie. But it's very rare that recent Adam. [01:46:12] Speaker A: Sandler, I know I'm sounding cranky this week, but I. I'll never in my life get the joke. And this is just exactly that. It is. It's the same crew of people he always has. It's the same. [01:46:25] Speaker B: Yeah, it's just, it's. [01:46:27] Speaker A: Oh, man. [01:46:28] Speaker B: I mean, that's the thing is, it's like, you know, his heyday was 30 years ago. Once it gets to like this point, you know, you're playing to a very ever diminishing. [01:46:39] Speaker A: Yes. People. [01:46:41] Speaker B: Right. Like that kind of humor. It's the same thing. It's like people who are always like, SNL hasn't been funny since the 70s. Well, yeah, if I watch 70s SNL, I don't think it's funny because that's not when I was into comedy, you know, like, we've gotten older, you know, so that kind of comedy doesn't work. [01:46:59] Speaker A: We sure have. I was delighted to see you giving five stars to the Long Walk. [01:47:06] Speaker B: Yes. So we're gonna talk about Long Walk now. If you don't want to know anything about it, go ahead and take this moment to turn off your podcast. [01:47:14] Speaker A: Not to the same extent that I was with Eddington. Right. I wanted you to watch Eddington because I knew what was going to happen. Right. I knew within the first 15 minutes of Eddington what was about to unfold. When you saw that film, I see it. You must. But I was worried. [01:47:33] Speaker B: Disagree. [01:47:34] Speaker A: But I was. I was very worried with the Long Walk. I was worried that you were going to have a bad reaction to it. And I bad wanted you to like it because it really landed for me benefited. [01:47:43] Speaker B: I think like is probably the wrong word. [01:47:45] Speaker A: Oh, go on. [01:47:47] Speaker B: Well, I mean, like, how do you like the Long Walk, which is such an incredibly bleak and sad and hopeless movie. You know, like, like I. I use the word like when I'm like, ah, I can't wait to watch that again. I felt like that just really awakens something in me. This I don't want to see again. It was fantastic. I cannot think of a circumstance in which I'd want to sit through that again. [01:48:14] Speaker A: Yeah, I think you've answered your own question there in talking to me. It's. I want. I like those places. I like going to those places in a movie. I like a movie that'll take me there, you know? [01:48:31] Speaker B: Yeah. And maybe describe the. The the for people who want to know what it's about and are still listening. [01:48:40] Speaker A: Listen, for some reason, for some reason in the future. Don't ask me why, because I don't think it's very. I don't think it's even sketched out as to why this happens. But in a battle royale, kind of endurance Hunger Games esque kind of display of. For public entertainment, a group of kids, a group of. A group of randomly selected individuals, they just gotta walk. They gotta walk. They gotta walk until they die. And one of them. [01:49:12] Speaker B: Yeah, I like the idea. You know, they keep. It's. I think it's intentionally sort of a broad and silly justification, but it's the idea that they're supposed to inspire poor and, you know, jobless and suffering populace that these kids are out there to show, you know. Yeah, it's hard out there and all that stuff, but, you know, if you push through, then you might be able to. To finally climb the ladder. Right. And that's emblematic, you know, the. Epitomized by the winner who survives this. Which, by the way, like I said, I didn't know anything about this movie before going to it, right? Not one thing at all. So when you first. The first kid drops from this. This competition and they go up and shoot him in the head. I turned to Kyo and I was like, did they know that that was what's gonna happen to them? Because Keo's read the book and he's like, yes, like. And that's gonna happen all of them? [01:50:22] Speaker A: Yep. [01:50:24] Speaker B: What? [01:50:26] Speaker A: You get three warnings and then you get murdered. And it doesn't matter why you stop. If you're gonna take a. If your foot is blistered beyond repair, if there's a dispute or a physical altercation between your fellow walkers, if you are hungry, if you need to eat, if you need to piss, if you need to cross cry, if you drop through sheer exhaustion, three warnings and back on your feet, or you get shot in the head. Which everyone does at one point or another. [01:50:54] Speaker B: Yes. [01:50:54] Speaker A: It differs in how graphically we see it at its most graphic. You see bullets ripping through faces and heads. You know, there is attempts at mutiny and seizing control from others. There's pushback and rebellion always ends with a crumpled body and tears. Relationships develop, stories are revealed, motivations are revealed. [01:51:18] Speaker B: And one of the things I think is so interesting in this is because it's, you know, it's a story about desperation. [01:51:26] Speaker A: Sure. [01:51:26] Speaker B: Right. And early on you learn that everyone signs up for this. Right. This isn't Hunger Games. You're not pulled from, you know, a bunch of names or whatever. Randomly, everyone signs up for this and 50 are picked and, you know, sort of the. Our main character that we're following here. Played by Philip Seymour Hoffman's son. Yeah, I looked him up immediately because I was like, man, he's just such a real guy. Like, he's just. He's a guy, you know, him. I looked at him, I was like, Philip Seymour Hoffman's son. Yeah, no, that adds up. That makes absolute sense. But he says early on, you know, that if everybody does this, it's not actually voluntary. You know, like, this is not something we're really volunteering for. It's something that we have to do. And throughout this whole thing, I just, you know, being the person that I am, not particular, I may be impulsive and things like that, but I'm not really steered by peer pressure or things like that to any extent. And if I don't want to do something, I don't do it. And thinking about, like, the degree of desperation that drives you there and thinking about, like, how much do you think, if everyone does this, how much do you really think you're going to win this? [01:52:53] Speaker A: Yes. [01:52:53] Speaker B: Right. Like that there has to be. And they talk a little bit about this, but there's a contingent of you who, like, no, you like. I do not stand a chance, of course, at this. You know, like, I'm here, I'm doing the thing. But of all of these guys, all. [01:53:10] Speaker A: Of which is addressed the dissonance, the delusion in thinking that, do you. Do you really think any of us is going to win here? [01:53:17] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. Like, what are the actual odds that we're going to win? [01:53:22] Speaker A: You know, and all of that is, you know, those doubts are faced head on by Mark Hamill's overseeing the whole of it as the kind of military captain with his, you know, his huge cannon on the back of a lorry, trained on the kids at all times, giving them, right. The most patronizing pep talks the entire way through it. Come on, boys, one more night. One more night. As the miles, you know, the on screen Captions tell us 50 miles, miles, 60 miles, 70 miles through rain. Ah, man. Delighted to see David Johnson again. Our boy from Alien, Romulus. Delighted to see him again. And delighted to see that Andy from Alien was not a fluke. This kid is actually very. [01:54:09] Speaker B: He's got the chops. [01:54:11] Speaker A: Very good. [01:54:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I. I think in this movie, the. Those two sort of main characters, those two guys are just. I love the way that they are opposite in some ways, but complement the message you get from both complement each other so well. Because David Johnson's character has, like, this hope to him. Right. He's the Guy that keeps you moving, you know, whatever the case may be. Like, it's. Listen, we're together. We got this. We're going. You know, we have goals. We want to do good things for people, like just a little longer. We got this. We have each other's backs, you know, and he's pushing things forward in that way where on the other hand, the other character is. Takes a bleaker view of things and is the constant reminder that you can't like, sunny attitude your way out of the oppression that they're all facing. [01:55:14] Speaker A: No. [01:55:14] Speaker B: You know, so there's these two ends of it, and you need both in any kind of movement. You need the people who can press on all the time and push you forward and keep the momentum when you want to give up and things like that. Well, also you need the guy who's like, but, you know, this is so much deeper than this shit is. And we need to remember the structures that are. That are making this happen. [01:55:38] Speaker A: Not only did I know nothing of it going in, I've read nothing of it since. So I don't know if this is something that has been. If this is a common comparison, but I. I came out of it feeling the same as I did from Stand By Me. Does that. Is that. Does that sound. Do you disagree with that? It's. It's. [01:55:59] Speaker B: Well gone. [01:55:59] Speaker A: Very kind of meaningful and human relationships being built and absolutely huge amounts of pressure and adversity. [01:56:10] Speaker B: Right. [01:56:11] Speaker A: The. As. As the. As the walkers get thinned out over the course of the film. And for. It's. It's not a short film by any means, and it moves along in a clip. It's by nature of the film always, always moving. Yeah. [01:56:25] Speaker B: And you can see why they had trouble advertising this movie. Like, what do you put in a trailer? [01:56:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:56:31] Speaker B: Like, there's nothing. None of the conversations make sense out of the context of the movie. They're constantly walking. The location is a road. Like, now I see why I didn't see trailers for this for six months before it came out. [01:56:45] Speaker A: But everyone there is walking with, you know, the clear and unassailable knowledge that they are all going to die. They're all dead. [01:56:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:56:57] Speaker A: That's very powerful. [01:56:58] Speaker B: Yeah. Indeed it was. Yeah. It's an incredible movie. Makes you think about a lot of things, you know, about structures of power, about relationships with people, about what movements are about, you know, humanity, what drives people, you know, the. The good and the bad in people, what people do when they're pushed to the edge of things. The idea of hope and when it can be so misguided. You know, there's, like, the one guy who's like, I just, you know, want to make some friends while I'm here. You know, there's, you know, the guy who's just kind of tormenting everyone on this whole thing until he realizes, is this really how I want to die? Like, with everyone hating me? Really gets through sort of just how complex, you know, people are and what they do when they're backed into a corner. [01:57:51] Speaker A: Yes. [01:57:53] Speaker B: So I'd say we recommend the Long Walk unreservedly. [01:57:56] Speaker A: I look forward to watching it again. I think it's one that Peter is going to enjoy a lot. Really, I do. I really do. [01:58:02] Speaker B: Interesting. [01:58:03] Speaker A: That kind of guy's bonding under horrific circumstances. Movie is a big favorite genre of mine, and Stand By Me is one he loves. He enjoyed the Goonies when we watched it. [01:58:16] Speaker B: Sure. [01:58:16] Speaker A: And as strange as it might sound, there are parallels between all of those films. [01:58:22] Speaker B: Oh, no, absolutely. Yeah, I can definitely see that. [01:58:25] Speaker A: So, yeah, it's one I massively look forward to watching. [01:58:27] Speaker B: I always say, you know, Goonies is not a movie I love, but at the core of Goonies is a sort of real story about what's going on in the place it was filmed. Astoria, Oregon, of, like, a place that, you know, developers come in and they, you know, destroy a place that belongs to people who are impoverished or in, you know, the lower rungs of society and trying to deal with, you know, your home being taken over. Things like that, like, they're about structures of power and kids and, you know. Yeah. These groups of kids sort of overcoming these bigger structural obstacles. [01:59:04] Speaker A: Collateral damage. [01:59:05] Speaker B: They are not. Yeah. That they really can't face down on their own. [01:59:11] Speaker A: Yes. It, like. Like I've said on plenty of other times, it leaves you just watching the credits and just letting it bed in. [01:59:21] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. Pretty miserable. I will warn you of that. But. [01:59:26] Speaker A: But that's good. [01:59:27] Speaker B: Really good movie. [01:59:28] Speaker A: Yeah, really good movies. [01:59:31] Speaker B: So, on that note, we have Axe Murdered and we have Ghost Toured and we have Long Walk. I think it's time to send everyone off into Halloween. [01:59:40] Speaker A: Yeah. And we might have invented a movie if the movie I invented doesn't exist. It sounds great. I'm sure you'll agree. [01:59:46] Speaker B: Yeah. It's a hell of a film. So if you know what he's talking about, do let us know if you think it's a delusion. We'd like to know that as well. [01:59:58] Speaker A: And I'll just. End fight. I'm just gonna stop. No, but I'll I'll. I'll just end sincerely by saying that, you know, we. We love. We love that you listen wherever you listen to. And 2026, as you'll know by now, has got some big things coming up for the Joag. That's right, the Joag brand. And we can't wait for you to be a part of them. [02:00:23] Speaker B: Indeed. So stay spooky.