Ep. 201: spontaneous human combustion

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Darling. Marco. [00:00:01] Speaker B: Hello. [00:00:02] Speaker A: Not two days ago, I was having a look in a book and I saw a picture of a guy fried up above his knee. That's. That's incubus. It's. [00:00:13] Speaker B: Oh, I see. Yes. [00:00:14] Speaker A: It didn't happen. [00:00:15] Speaker B: Completely lost on me because I don't like them. [00:00:18] Speaker A: Fair enough. But, my friend, have you spent much time thinking about the phenomenon described in that. Their incubus song, spontaneous human combustion? [00:00:30] Speaker B: Okay, interesting and welcome that you bring this up. Cause. Yes. [00:00:34] Speaker A: Okay, nice. [00:00:36] Speaker B: So, as a young dead man, 97 in primary school, would have, like, his little tomes of lore, you know, unexplained mysteries. [00:00:48] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. [00:00:51] Speaker B: Paranormal occurrences, spooks of the UK and shit like that. Exactly. And, you know, just. Oh, beautiful formative stuff. And, yes, SHC was mentioned on more than one occasion amidst those tomes of, you know, of law with a particular. Few notable british cases in particular. Yeah. But I'd love to. I'd love to hear what you're bringing because I love the topic. [00:01:21] Speaker A: Yeah. As I mentioned in here, I don't know why exactly this did not come up in any of the things I read, but the vast majority of these SHC cases happen in either the UK or France. [00:01:35] Speaker B: Ooh, is that right? [00:01:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I think France is the number one. And then the UK. [00:01:42] Speaker B: Fascinating. [00:01:43] Speaker A: Yeah, there's probably. I don't know if people have written on that. I'm sure they're. You know, as we get into the discussing the mechanisms of this, maybe we'll have thoughts on what reasons might be behind that. [00:01:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I have some thoughts as to why not only why Britain might have been an epicenter globally of spontaneous human combustion, but why maybe some shit isn't anymore. I've got some thoughts on that. [00:02:10] Speaker A: Love that. So hold that thought, and please don't forget it, because I would absolutely love to discuss this once I've talked a little about it. The image that Brandon Boyd describes in those lyrics from the 1999 hit, pardon me? Refers to the fact that in many alleged cases of spontaneous human combustion, or SHC, as you already pointed out, I was genuinely wavering on, like, should I bring the abbreviation in or not? And then you just threw it out there, like. Of course, naturally, we all know that, but, yeah, the torso of the victim burns away to ashes, but the extremities are left completely or partly untouched. Further, the area surrounding the victim is largely undamaged and there's no clear source of the fire. As if a spark just sort of ignited from center mass and exploded the midsection of the person in one quick burst. So let me tell you a few stories of this spontaneous human combustion. [00:03:11] Speaker B: Oh, please. Which always, always finds its way into any kind of long running Sci-Fi horror. [00:03:18] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. [00:03:19] Speaker B: Mystery of the week shows there was a fucking spontaneous human combustion story on fringe. Certain there would have been one on X Files. Yeah, I'm sure. You know what I mean? It's. What's the word for it? It's an urban kind of myth of a topic, which is good mileage from it, don't you? [00:03:36] Speaker A: Yeah. Whenever you have something like this, that is places like, very mysterious, a thing that's been happening for a long time and no one knows why, it's obviously ripe for interpretations, especially supernatural ones or things of that nature. So, yeah, you may have in your little books back in the day heard these stories, but I'll bring them back to you. Please. So let's start on September 13, 1967, when some passersby on Auckland street in south London noticed a bright light coming from inside the house. Knowing the home was abandoned, they made their way inside, where, to their horror, they found a man they recognized up in flames. [00:04:26] Speaker B: Uh oh. [00:04:27] Speaker A: The man was Robert Bailey, described as the local alcoholic. It sounds like my brother. As we were discussing before this podcast. [00:04:36] Speaker B: South London's local alcoholic. [00:04:38] Speaker A: Yep, exactly. And he bedded down in the home for the night, only to be found, quote, lying on the bottom of the stairs, half turned onto his left side, and his knees were drawn up as though he was trying to bend the pain from his stomach. [00:04:52] Speaker B: Yikes. [00:04:53] Speaker A: Some of the, I'm, like, reading a lot of these hot fire. [00:04:58] Speaker B: Shitting fire. [00:05:00] Speaker A: A lot of these accounts. The language that people use to describe what they saw is honestly incredible. I can only imagine how jarring seeing something like this is. And so the language is always extremely colorful, and they're just trying to process what they just saw, you know, because. [00:05:20] Speaker B: Moments like that, a few and far between in one's life, aren't they? [00:05:23] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. [00:05:24] Speaker B: You come across something that. Yeah, well, exactly. You know, ideally, you don't want more than a few of those during a lifetime when you just don't have the context to describe. [00:05:34] Speaker A: Right. Like, it's my brain, it's, you know, seeing. Seeing the angels in the Bible or whatever. [00:05:39] Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. That. So, yes, perfectly understandable. And, you know, all the more entertaining for us later down in history to see that. [00:05:47] Speaker A: Yes. So fire Brigade Commander John Stacy had been called to the scene and described. A four inch slit in the man's stomach from which a blue flame was emanating like a blowtorch. [00:06:01] Speaker B: Wow. [00:06:02] Speaker A: He went on to say the flame was actually coming from the body itself. From inside the body. He was burning literally from the inside out. And it was definitely under pressure and it was impinging on the timber floor below the body. So much so that the heat from the flame was charred into the woodwork. It seemed that Bailey had been alive when the fire started. And as the pain threw him into convulsions, he bit into a solid mahogany post on the stairs. [00:06:29] Speaker B: Fuck me. [00:06:30] Speaker A: Yeah. In death, the fireman had to pry his jaws open to remove him from the post. No source of ignition. Sixties. [00:06:38] Speaker B: Did you say late sixties? [00:06:39] Speaker A: 1967. Yeah. [00:06:41] Speaker B: See, this is interesting in that it's the only one that I've heard to my memory of. Of someone actually witnessing the combustion. Oh, we'll have more, you know. Yeah, that's fascinating to me. So he was. [00:06:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:54] Speaker B: Spewing blue flame from a slit in his abdomen. [00:06:58] Speaker A: In his stomach, yes, exactly. [00:07:01] Speaker B: Do we got any pictures or is it just this one? [00:07:04] Speaker A: Lad said, no, no, no. It's only, you know, news reports. There's. They did not. I mean, I imagine they didn't even have time to think about this. It mentions it burned really quick. There was no gas or electricity running to the house because it was abandoned. There was no source of ignition that they could be, that they could find. In the ensuing investigation. He wasn't carrying matches or anything else that might catch fire. And there was no fire damage aside from the abdomen, indicating that the fire had only just begun to burn when the fire brigade arrived. So they were called and they were there within five minutes of the guys seeing the flames from outside. So real quick, this guy burned up. So in another London instance, now, that. [00:07:50] Speaker B: One I have skepticism towards. I'm gonna tell you that it's fair. [00:07:56] Speaker A: But we'll get into explaining why this is. I know it sounds fantastical. And of course, I mean, I think the thing is, when it comes to these, you always have to have kind of a degree of incredulity about the descriptions. Not because people were lying, but again, because they're processing a thing that is very hard for them to understand. [00:08:20] Speaker B: It doesn't matter if the account is, you know, 50 years old or happened last week, if it was just you and the other guy there. And you're telling me that guy burst flames out of his abdomen and the other guy is dead? I don't believe you. Until. [00:08:33] Speaker A: Well, there were like six or seven people at this. There was the whole fire brigade and the guys who witnessed it in the first place. [00:08:41] Speaker B: So it was changed. Workers, if they all saw it, that does. [00:08:44] Speaker A: They all saw it. Group of workers passed by, they walked. [00:08:47] Speaker B: In, roll it back, roll it back. [00:08:49] Speaker A: Right. So I can't necess, like, I can't speak to whether it actually looked like a blowtorch of blue flames coming out of his stomach, you know, but people saw it actively happen. More than one person saw it happen. And the same in the next one. Like I said, another London one. And these tended to be in England or France. A 61 year old intellectually disabled woman named Jeannie Safin was sitting in the kitchen of her home with her father in September of 1982. She was seated in something called a Windsor chair. Do you know what a Windsor chair is? No. [00:09:28] Speaker B: I'd like to know, though. [00:09:29] Speaker A: All I know is that it's wood. It did say this in the report on this, that this was some sort of wood chair. I don't know if it matters. Yep, that's just a style. [00:09:40] Speaker B: But to you, a Windsor chair. [00:09:43] Speaker A: Oh, that's like. It's like a style. Standard kitchen table, chair, arms. Like the sort of a million times. Yes, yes, exactly. Okay, great. So according to her father, he saw out of the corner of his eye a sudden flash of light. And as any of us would do, he turned to Genie to be like, yo, did you see that? [00:10:03] Speaker B: Did you see that? Yeah. Fuck was that? [00:10:05] Speaker A: Left. Turned out Genie was the flash of light and she was at that point engulfed in flames. According to Mister Sathan. [00:10:15] Speaker B: She didn't just imagine that shit. [00:10:18] Speaker A: Like, honestly, I mean, it really. When you think about like these moments. [00:10:24] Speaker B: Yeah, it's so before you're going to work in the morning or whatever, right? [00:10:29] Speaker A: You're just sitting there having your coffee, whatever, and then you turn and your daughter is on fire. What the fuck, Mandez? Yeah, she didn't react at all. She just sat there with her hands in her lap as she burned. He dragged her to the kitchen sink and began dousing her with water. And somewhere in there he managed to call his son in law, who arrived to find flames, as he put it, roaring from her face and abdomen. In fact, in an article in the Guardian, he was quoted as saying she was roaring like a dragon, Christ and insane. Yeah, just flames coming out of her mouth. [00:11:09] Speaker B: A powerful image, isn't it? [00:11:10] Speaker A: It really is. Again, it's like, how can that be? You know, like, is that just like his brain processing what had gone on? [00:11:20] Speaker B: Again? [00:11:20] Speaker A: Is that genuinely what was several witnesses. [00:11:23] Speaker B: Other people testifying to that? Not just the one, you know, one man's account right, exactly. [00:11:29] Speaker A: We know this did happen. [00:11:30] Speaker B: Potent, potent testimony. Right. [00:11:33] Speaker A: This woman did burn to death. There's tons of records of this all over the place. This is one of the most famous cases of spontaneous human combustion, if you will. So the flames were just shooting out of her mouth and her midriff. According to articles on the subject, in 20 11, 76 year old Michael Faherty was found lying on his back near an open fireplace, badly burned. According to detectives and forensic experts, there was no sign of any accelerants, nor that anyone had come or gone from the scene. And the fireplace was ruled out as the source of the fire that killed him. I know you're gonna ask how? I don't know. We'll get into this though. Okay? Said coroner doctor Kieran McLaughlin. The fire was thoroughly investigated and I'm left to the conclusion that this fits into the category of spontaneous human combustion, for which there is no adequate explanation. [00:12:30] Speaker B: Wow. [00:12:31] Speaker A: This was the first one. [00:12:32] Speaker B: Another british one? Yeah, another british. [00:12:34] Speaker A: This is the first such case ever recorded in Ireland. [00:12:37] Speaker B: All right. [00:12:38] Speaker A: And it's 2011, which is kind of wild. This Kieran McLaughlin guy said, you know, in his. He'd been coroner for. [00:12:46] Speaker B: Is he a copper, Kieran? Is he a policeman? [00:12:51] Speaker A: Whatever a coroner is. [00:12:53] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:12:53] Speaker A: I don't know who they were. [00:12:54] Speaker B: The coroner was the guy who was. [00:12:55] Speaker A: Like, ah, yeah, the coroner was like, this has to be spontaneous combustion. [00:13:00] Speaker B: Open the file. Put it in the SHC file. It's the big one there. [00:13:06] Speaker A: Said he'd been working for 24, 25 years in the coroner's office and never seen anything like this. And that's what led him to that conclusion. So, I mean, I'm assuming we're talking about a guy who's in his like sixties or somewhere in that general, seen a lot of shit. [00:13:21] Speaker B: Combustion, whatever type or another. [00:13:24] Speaker A: Yeah. And this one, this one stumped him, apparently. And one of my favorite. Oh, go ahead. [00:13:32] Speaker B: Has there been any kind of official ruling on any of these, of any inquests or. [00:13:37] Speaker A: They usually say something along the lines of like, you know, like a cause undetermined or something like that, because they can't say, like, that's the thing with all of these is that there really isn't any clear thing that they can look at and go, this is what happened here. So usually it will say the cause of death undetermined. Sometimes it'll say something else. At first, in a few stories it talked about, it'll say suicide or something else. And then when they kind of examine it further, they're like, actually, we have no fucking clue what happened here. So undetermined is usually what you get for these. In this case, McLaughlin was, like, not just undetermined. Yeah. Death by misadventure. [00:14:23] Speaker B: Well, yeah, exactly. [00:14:24] Speaker A: By spontaneous human combustion. [00:14:26] Speaker B: You went that extra step, and I fucking love him for it. In my head. [00:14:29] Speaker A: I know. I like it. Yeah, right. Totally. Which is appropriate because I watched Halloween three last night. So it's a perfect, perfect picture in my head. But, yeah, one of my favorite weird little instances of this. And this will kind of tip towards where I'm going with the, like, skepticism about the idea of SHC is in a journal article. There was a journal article that was kind of examining the cases that they knew about of alleged spontaneous human combustion. And it described a youngish man who was brought into the hospital presenting with seizures. [00:15:13] Speaker B: Young ish. [00:15:14] Speaker A: Yeah, obvious. [00:15:15] Speaker B: Kind of my age. Youngish. [00:15:16] Speaker A: That's really emphasis on the ish. [00:15:19] Speaker B: Yeah, young ish. My age. Youngish. [00:15:22] Speaker A: Also, I'm pretty sure there's a character in the podcast my dad wrote a porno called the youngish man. And so it very much makes me laugh that this is what it said in this academic study. But in the midst of one such spell, he began arching his back and swinging his arms. And then suddenly, smoke began rising from his midsection, seemingly having been set alight internally by his seizures. [00:15:47] Speaker B: Damn right. [00:15:49] Speaker A: Now, I'll get back to those other stories, obviously, but we're gonna scotch this tale first just to, like. [00:15:54] Speaker B: Yeah, please. [00:15:54] Speaker A: Just to get going. As it turned out, this is wild. The youngish man had a pair of matchbooks in his back pocket and his seizures had caused them to rub together and ignite the matches. [00:16:09] Speaker B: Wow. Clenched his ass cheeks so tightly that he fucking. [00:16:13] Speaker A: Pretty much, yeah. [00:16:14] Speaker B: Struck a match with his ass cracked. [00:16:16] Speaker A: Yeah. So, hey, if you're out there listening and you're a smoker who still uses matches and also has seizures, maybe only carry one pack at a time. [00:16:25] Speaker B: We're big with that particular overlap. [00:16:27] Speaker A: It's a huge demographic of ours. Yeah. [00:16:30] Speaker B: We slot right in there. [00:16:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Very analog smokers. But imagine, though, if they hadn't put the fire out and our man had just burned up before them, right? Taking the matchbooks with him as he disintegrated into ash, leaving behind his arms, legs, his head, what would those traumatized hospital workers have been left to think exactly? [00:16:54] Speaker B: What would Tom Atkins have immediately concluded from the evidence before him? [00:16:59] Speaker A: Yeah, just fuck me. This guy just spontaneously combusted. [00:17:02] Speaker B: We've got another one. [00:17:04] Speaker A: Now, this is not a traditional sort of spontaneous combustion, like the other stories we'll see. But it just kind of leans towards, you know, as they're looking. As researchers are looking at, like, what are these instances that we've seen in which this happened? What ones can we explain? Just out the gate. Right. And that was one that because they were able to stop him from completely combusting, they could point to what was there. The issue with spontaneous human combustion is that there's not enough left for you to be able to make those kinds of determination. There have been recorded instances of spontaneous human combustion for centuries, if not more, with all sorts of explanations ranging from the pseudo scientific to the paranormal and deeply unhinged. These include things like lightning, electrical surges, witches, psychic suicide, and naturally, just straight up the wrath of an angry God. God gets mad at you, smites you. [00:18:05] Speaker B: Um, some of the causes that were posited in some of the books I read as a kid were just that. So lightning coming down chimneys, you know. [00:18:13] Speaker A: Yeah. Which makes sense. Right. [00:18:14] Speaker B: Through sockets. And when it comes to, uh. When it comes to cases where there have just been charred remains, seemingly with, like you said, no accelerant, no propellant, nothing to start the fire off. The explanation was something in between lightning and body fat. [00:18:38] Speaker A: We'll get there. [00:18:39] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, like a fucking human candle. [00:18:44] Speaker A: Hair actually doesn't have to do with it, with what this mechanism is, but you are on the right track otherwise. So I'll get there in a moment. But while we're talking about other explanations people have posited for this. Engineer Larry E. Arnold, director of an organization called Parascience International, proposed that the culprit was actually a new subatomic particle he called the pyrotron, or pyrotron. [00:19:14] Speaker B: If Ghostbusters was free, he would have had Ghostbusters, wouldn't he? Use the fucking gone over here. [00:19:20] Speaker A: Yep. And his. [00:19:21] Speaker B: What did he call it? [00:19:22] Speaker A: The pyrotron. [00:19:24] Speaker B: Yeah, right, baby. [00:19:25] Speaker A: It is. Theory is that it causes a conflagration when it comes into contact with human tissue. [00:19:31] Speaker B: I love him. [00:19:32] Speaker A: Yeah. It's a fun idea, right? Yeah, sure. But as Ashton Schneider of the Ohio State University points out, it is really hard to discover new particles. Finding the Higgs boson cost a whopping $13.25 billion. Yes, and scientists don't take that pursuit lightly. If there was seemingly some new particle that was causing people to explode, they would absolutely be pouring heaps of scratch into uncovering what the fuck that is. But that has not happened. It's a fun theory, but Larry E. Arnold is just some guy. He's about as qualified to determine that this is a subatomic particle as I am. [00:20:12] Speaker B: Keep on keeping on though, Larry, you fucking diamond. Don't ever stop science. [00:20:18] Speaker A: But okay, if not witches or electrical surges or wayward particles or the wages of sin, what is spontaneous human combustion? Are people actually just exploding out of nowhere? According to an article in the Journal of Burn Care and Research, there are three main combustible constituents in a body. [00:20:41] Speaker B: The best source of food on the body and research. [00:20:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I bet there's a lot of gnarly shit in there. Even, like, the sidebar, like, related articles and stuff. We're just like Jesus Christ. But, yeah, the best source of fuel on the body is, as you just said, fat, skin and other soft tissues, eg, viscera, will burn if dehydrated and exposed to a direct flame. Bone and especially bone marrow. Fat will add a fuel to the fire. They go on to explain that it's nearly impossible to destroy an entire human body by incineration. [00:21:18] Speaker B: Yep. [00:21:19] Speaker A: What about cremation, you might ask? Right. That is a very extreme exception to the rule, because the cremation process burns between 670 to 810 degrees celsius. That's 1238 to 1490 degrees fahrenheit. That is almost impossibly hot. Much hotter than a house fire is gonna get. And the process takes about an hour to complete. And even still, you will find pieces of bones and other structures that could be recognized anatomically among the ashes. [00:21:55] Speaker B: Surgical appliances and such. Yes. [00:21:57] Speaker A: Yeah. If you were thinking of murdering someone and incinerating them, your sol buddy, you're already caught. You simply cannot get rid of a body that way. [00:22:06] Speaker B: You've got to have plurality in your methods here. You can't just incinerate someone. You can't just acidify someone. You can't just chop someone up. But all three of those together, you got yourself a slurry. You know, put that in bottles. Go for a nice drive. Just fucking pour a little here a little bit. [00:22:26] Speaker A: I don't know about that, but listen, if you are going to do a murderous try it, you're totally gonna get caught. So there we go. Let us know, let us know. We'll look for it in the news. But this is why we find bodies after fires and plane crashes and things like that. We are very hard to burn. In fact, in normal cases, unlike these ones of spontaneous human combustion, we normally see people largely sustain burns to their extremities, not to the middle of their bodies. [00:22:56] Speaker B: We did. I'm certain we will have spoken about the kind of, thankfully short lived self immolation video, kind of, you know, little wave that popped up a few months. [00:23:09] Speaker A: Back and that there's just another one the other day. [00:23:11] Speaker B: Oh, there you go. There you go. Three days ago, the anatomical view that's given us of kind of people burning up in ways that I don't think we've seen before has been. [00:23:21] Speaker A: Right. [00:23:21] Speaker B: Darkly fascinating. Watching tendons curl and people fucking go rigid, you know? [00:23:26] Speaker A: Absolutely. This guy the other day, he only. It was only his arm. He basically was saying, you know, the children of Palestine, for all the lost limbs, I give you my left arm and lit that on fire. And it was still crazy to see, you know, just that happen. But that is where people usually burn. And I think from those videos, you know, probably most people listening to this did not watch the self immolation videos, but if you did, you can kind of see, you know, how that works. Like, people's center mass isn't really what burns in those videos. You see a lot of that. Yeah. Curling up of the arms and legs and things like that in those videos. So that's normally what happens, because our arms and legs are covered in a thin layer of subcutaneous tissue that's far more vulnerable to the effects of fire than the stuff we got going on in the middle of us. So that is to say, when we get burned, normally. [00:24:24] Speaker B: Bacon. You're talking about bacon. You're talking about human bacon. [00:24:27] Speaker A: We're. [00:24:28] Speaker B: That's the bacon layout. [00:24:30] Speaker A: I wasn't gonna put it that way, but. But, yes, essentially getting us all crispy. As I mentioned a minute ago, fat is the best fuel in the body. Obviously, we've been using the fat of other animals as a source of light and heat for what, like millennia? [00:24:46] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:24:47] Speaker A: I don't know how long been doing that, but. A long time. [00:24:49] Speaker B: It's great. It just works so good. [00:24:51] Speaker A: It works. We know. We know. That's the thing that you can do. But the thing about fat is that it can't ignite in its natural form. [00:24:59] Speaker B: I see. [00:25:00] Speaker A: It can only ignite in liquid form, and it becomes liquid when it is unattached to circulation, in other words, when the person is already dead. So one of the things that make people think that someone spontaneously combusted is that what's left of their body is usually found just where they were sitting. [00:25:20] Speaker B: Yes. [00:25:21] Speaker A: I don't know about you, Mark, but if I were on fire, I'd be getting my stop, drop and roll on. I would simply be just sitting there right as I've. [00:25:31] Speaker B: It's literally the first time I've thought about human combustion in about 30 years, probably. But there's a part of me that thinks, like, from a british point of view, like you said, all Britain and France, um, indoor british heating in the sixties, seventies, eighties. You're looking at kind of, you know, uncompromising bar heaters that glow fucking bright orange flowers. At the time, an adult me wonders if I had enough fucking downers, diazepam or something for, you know, and I'd fallen asleep in my chair and then been struck by lightning. If the combination of all of those factors might lead me to just be so unconscious and to just burn in place. [00:26:18] Speaker A: You're totally. You're totally getting to where I'm getting with this. Absolutely. So, like I said, you know, the person is already dead and. Yeah. So they don't, you know, they're sitting where they are because they didn't respond to the fire. As researchers point out, there usually is no soot in the trachea or bronchi of victims of so called spontaneous human combustion. Meaning they never inhaled smoke, meaning they were not breathing when they caught fire. It's the same kind of thing you see when people try to cover up a murder with a house fire. When the bodies are examined, you can tell that they were already dead. Cause they never inhaled smoke. Creepy me. [00:26:59] Speaker B: Fucking amateur shit. [00:27:01] Speaker A: It is amateur shit. If people watch more dateline, they wouldn't do this. But very easy to tell that the people were dead already. So scientists generally agree that what we're seeing in these cases of spontaneous combustion is a thing called the wick effect. Have you heard this term? [00:27:19] Speaker B: Yes, I have. [00:27:19] Speaker A: Okay. Cause it seems like that's, you know, that's kind of what you were aiming toward. It essentially goes to what I've just explained to you. What happens is that something like, say, a lit cigarette or some kind of spark, say, from an open fireplace, lands on clothing worn by someone who is likely already dead, but could also be deeply intoxicated or otherwise incapacitated. [00:27:43] Speaker B: Synthetic clothing, nylon clothing. You know what I mean? Fibers. Man made fibers that will just burn and burn and burn and burn and burn. [00:27:51] Speaker A: Right? It catches the clothing on fire and in turn scorches the skin, which exposes the fat underneath. The fat melts, which then soaks into the fabric, and you've got your nice little. Yeah. Human fat Molotov cocktail happening. The clothing turns into a big wick, and the body, as the osu paper put it, quote, into a candle of sorts. Obviously, our midsections are the fattiest parts of us. So that's why you find the majority of damage done to the torso. It's using all of that as fuel. [00:28:24] Speaker B: It's not a candle, it's a mandal. [00:28:27] Speaker A: It's a mantle. Exactly. Gross. Flames leaping up from gashes in someone's midsection are what you're seeing. And the extremities, like the hands and feet, have little fat at all. So when the bodies are found afterwards, they tend to be creepily intact, making it look like the person just exploded out of their hands and feet. Thus, in order for someone to appear to spontaneously combust, they have to have died shortly before the heat source has to char and crack the skin, releasing liquefied fat and causing it to come in contact with the person. Clothes. And the clothes have to then ignite, using the fat as fuel. Thus, it kind of becomes less mysterious and more just. Gross. [00:29:14] Speaker B: Yes. Gross and unusual. [00:29:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Right. It's like a chain of events. [00:29:20] Speaker B: It's like a little final destination. Exactly. Exactly. [00:29:23] Speaker A: Yeah. And when we return to our cases from the beginning, we can kind of make some guesses about what happened here. The biggest issue with figuring out how these people died is the fact that the evidence of how the fire started tends to burn up with them. While human bodies are hard to burn, a lot of the materials that could ignite and cause it isn't. In both Jeannie's safens and Robert Bailey's cases, we're looking at people who are in some way already impaired, whether by drunkenness or disability. [00:29:52] Speaker B: Yes. [00:29:53] Speaker A: Thus, if. [00:29:54] Speaker B: So, was one of your cases irish? [00:29:56] Speaker A: One of the cases was irish, yes. [00:29:58] Speaker B: So both of the above. [00:30:01] Speaker A: It's a possibility. But if, say, they dropped a cigarette into their lap. [00:30:06] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:30:08] Speaker A: They might not react because they're dead or because, like. Or because, you know, just otherwise slow reaction time in some way. And you wouldn't find the cigarette in the ashes that would be destroyed. There would be no evidence that that had been there. You just have a mysteriously charred dead person. [00:30:28] Speaker B: I get it. [00:30:29] Speaker A: In Faraday's case, the irish guy, if somehow he'd gotten too close to the fireplace and ignited himself, there would be absolutely no way for us to know that it would be. [00:30:38] Speaker B: I wasn't there. Right. I've not seen any of the data or the reporting or anything. But you don't just rule out the fireplace to you. [00:30:46] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. I don't know what their journey was that got them to that. Maybe they. I'm assuming what they meant was, like, he didn't fall into the fireplace. There wasn't any, like, you know, indication that the fire had leapt. Like. Yeah, there wasn't a trail of accelerant that the fire had followed to him. [00:31:08] Speaker B: I understand. [00:31:08] Speaker A: That would be my guess as to how they ruled this out, but I don't know either far away from me. [00:31:14] Speaker B: To tell me how. Tell him how to do a job. [00:31:17] Speaker A: Right, exactly. I would say. I imagine the fire department went, there's no obvious sign of how that fire got from the fireplace to the man and the coroner was like, spontaneous combustion. Like, I would doubt that's what the fire brigade said. I would imagine they said, it's inconclusive. [00:31:39] Speaker B: How many times over a career do you get to get away with that. [00:31:43] Speaker A: Before, guys, I think he just exploded, you know? But, yeah, let's, you know, imagine, like, he's 76 or whatever he was. Like, if he had a heart attack. [00:31:56] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:31:56] Speaker A: And fell near the fireplace, maybe grabbed something and flung, you know, some bit of the. An ember onto himself. [00:32:05] Speaker B: I'm saying there's, like a zillion different things I would put on that file. [00:32:09] Speaker A: Before I write spontaneously, before just exploded. [00:32:12] Speaker B: I'd be embarrassed. [00:32:14] Speaker A: Right. It's. [00:32:15] Speaker B: It's like trying to come up with something. [00:32:18] Speaker A: It's so anachronistic. It's so out of time. For, in 2011, someone to have looked at a case like this and gone quite like it. Oh, they spontaneously combusted that. It becomes charming, you know, just like, okay, buddy. [00:32:31] Speaker B: It was like a Friday afternoon, right? [00:32:36] Speaker A: He was headed to the pub. He was just like, I want to think zero more thoughts about this. [00:32:40] Speaker B: It was, you're profiling now, not me. You're the one who's profiling him now. I've been trying. [00:32:45] Speaker A: I just meant because it's the end of the day. Also, I'm irish American, so I can do that, of course. But, yeah, there would be no evidence left to tell you any of that kind of stuff had happened. Just a guy that had burned, like, a candle. So, listen, you know, I'm terrified of weird sudden death situations like brain aneurysms and what have you, but if anyone out there had an irrational fear of suddenly spewing fire out their mouth like a dragon, let me assure you, if that happens, you are already dead. Maybe that's not comforting, but, you know, uh, comfort me. Oh, good. That's all I want. [00:33:34] Speaker B: Let me quote directly from my notes, if I may. [00:33:36] Speaker A: Yes, please do. [00:33:37] Speaker B: Fucking look at these nerds. Oh, mise en scene. [00:33:41] Speaker A: I don't think anyone has ever said mise en scene in such a horny. [00:33:44] Speaker B: Way before the way I whispered the word sex. Cannibal receiver. [00:33:48] Speaker A: Worst comes to worst, Mark, I'm willing to guillotine you for science. [00:33:51] Speaker B: Thank you. That's really, really sweet. It's cold outside, but my pancreas is talking to me. I'm fucking. I'm gonna let it. [00:33:58] Speaker A: You know how I feel about that, Mark. [00:34:00] Speaker B: I think you feel great about it. [00:34:04] Speaker A: My nose is, like, getting more and more congested as I talk to. I think, like, the thing is, the. The allergy medicine's working, but as such, it's gone from running to congesting, and so it's like trying to breathe, to breathe out of my mouth. Safe talk. I feel like. I feel like I pulled it off. [00:34:26] Speaker B: I think you did, too. [00:34:28] Speaker A: Thanks. Take us in. [00:34:31] Speaker B: Oh. [00:34:32] Speaker A: Oh. Ugh. [00:34:34] Speaker B: Hey. It's been and is continuing to be tough to kind of re integrate. [00:34:44] Speaker A: I know, right? [00:34:45] Speaker B: I liken it to, you know, because I'm kind of young, 45, a youngish man. Youngish. That's what I was looking for. Yeah. [00:34:54] Speaker A: Mm hmm. [00:34:55] Speaker B: And I liken it to coming back home from a festival. That's. That's the kind of the recoup time I've needed. Plus coming back ill as fuck as well. I brought back american flu. Not Covid. Just. I want to. I want to just assure and reassure all of our guests and friends. Yeah. [00:35:17] Speaker A: Nobody. Nobody here has the Rona, but I will. I will say to that effect, I think you brought your dirty foreigner cold here, personally. [00:35:27] Speaker B: Oh, well, that's interesting. [00:35:29] Speaker A: Yeah. You got sick first. [00:35:33] Speaker B: I wasn't sick when I got there, though, was I? [00:35:35] Speaker A: If you recall, your wife had been sick. [00:35:37] Speaker B: She had, but I was fine. [00:35:39] Speaker A: You got here and the symptoms manifested, and then you left. And then I got sick. And then Colin and Megan got sick. [00:35:49] Speaker B: They did. [00:35:50] Speaker A: So I must say, you brought it. I think you're the one who brought the british cold to us. [00:35:56] Speaker B: You know, we could. We could throw blame around as we won't get to the heart of who did what. But, yeah, what I'm saying is it has taken. It has taken a long old time to assimilate. [00:36:10] Speaker A: Yeah, agreed. But, you know, I think worth it, because what freaking whirlwind, five days you had here in these United States of America. [00:36:21] Speaker B: Yeah, whirlwind is right. Yeah, completely. I mean, it didn't it. You warned me ahead of time, didn't you? You warned me, like, before I left. I know you're used to kind of busy holidays, so this would be all right. But, yeah, I love your town. Absolutely love Montreal. Gorgeous. [00:36:39] Speaker A: Yeah, me too. Yeah. I was having so much fun. I mean, you guys know from the way we've been talking about this that I was just as excited for having, like, a meetup and all that stuff as I was to just, like, show mark around, because obviously, like, you've. You've looked forward to coming to the United States since, you know, the last time you were here when you were a teenager. Yeah. And so I was stoked to be able to show you around. You got to see some really american things. The Halloween decorations all over town. You got to. I immediately made sure you got a sandwich, like, a real good deli sandwich. [00:37:17] Speaker B: And the kind of internal list of shit I wanted to take off, I just pretty much obliterated. Went to all of my kind of mythic shopping destinations, saw my mythic kind of artifacts, did all the special things. It was. You know what I mean? I think, you know, we did a great job, I think, alongside Steve and Anna. [00:37:40] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:37:41] Speaker B: In your garden, you know? And did it rain in New York? Fucking yeah, it did. [00:37:46] Speaker A: Oh, boy. Did it. The only time. This is so wild, because, okay, it has been unseasonably sunny for, like, up until the week that everybody came here. Right? They had a, like, tally on the news every day that was like, we have had no rain in this amount of time. Like, we really need some rain. We haven't had any rain. It poured the weekend that everyone was here, and then it has been sunny every single day since. [00:38:16] Speaker B: Incredible. [00:38:17] Speaker A: Every single day. Just. Just rained on my parade. Made it difficult for me to try to lead my tour. I couldn't show anyone all the pictures I made in my PowerPoint on my iPad. [00:38:28] Speaker B: Cause it was wet. It was a thankful note on which I was gonna end because we got away with it in the garden the night before, didn't we? You know? [00:38:36] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. We did the live cast, which, if you haven't listened to or watched yet, I recommend it. I listened or watched back, and I was laughing. It's like, this is goddamn. This is pretty funny. Hopefully folks will give that a listen. If you haven't, I'm curious. When you came back, what did you tell you've got one big old America file kid and the other who I assume is at least mildly interesting, what did you tell them where, you know, what were your highlights? What did you tell the kids about coming here? [00:39:16] Speaker B: Just. Only that it was a roaring success. Really. Just. Only. Just. Only that. Yeah. What's the word? Vindicated. Like I said, to you and utterly fucking heartened at the crew that turned up to a man, every one of them, fucking, you know, interesting and fascinating and personable. And I'm just delighted to have seen everyone. Yeah. Talk the kids through the sites. They were delighted with the haul that I brought back because I took off most of Owen's merch as well. [00:39:53] Speaker A: Yeah, we hit a CV's. We hit a target shop. We covered all our bases to make sure he got all the snacks that he needed. [00:40:02] Speaker B: Yes. But no, only that it was a fantastic success, which it was. And one that I won't forget in a hurry. [00:40:08] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. What were some things that. What stands out to you from your adventure here? Obviously seeing everyone. And let me tell you, after everybody left, we spent a whole day after that just literally vaping some weed and watching game shows and things like that. And every now and again, processing would person by person be like, oh, Anna, you know, Anna was so great. I loved this about her. Colin was, you know, I loved this about Kristen. I love this about, you know, and just person by person, just processing how much he likes everybody there. But, yeah. What. What do you treasure? What stands out to you about this? [00:40:54] Speaker B: All right, let me think just off the top of my head. [00:40:55] Speaker A: And what was weird, like, if there's stuff that you were like, what the fuck about America? Do you tell London? [00:41:01] Speaker B: I don't think I've seen London on its busiest day, as busy as Times Square was, which. [00:41:07] Speaker A: And it's off season too. [00:41:08] Speaker B: Exactly. On a pissing down, fucking, you know, Sunday in the middle of September, you know, so how you exist regularly, I frankly don't know. [00:41:23] Speaker A: Yeah, but you kept saying that too. It was so funny. You were just like, how do people. How do. How do people. [00:41:28] Speaker B: Yeah, all the time. How on earth is that? Is that. But it was. It was. It was an immersion few days, Corey. Right. And to pull. To pull individual events out would be. Would be ridiculous. The entire thing was an event just from the second car to the second. I jumped back on the plane. Yeah. Superb. [00:41:48] Speaker A: Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was quite an adventure. I loved that. You know, first thing, I bring Mark to get a sandwich, of course. And then, you know, we go to a CV's and get the melatonin or whatever and then realize we need some other things. We head to the stop and shop, and this is within an hour of getting off the plane, Mark sees his very first cyber truck. [00:42:12] Speaker B: Just like he driven to fucking greet me. You know what I mean? Like the fellow who's fucking, you know, coming to pick me up. [00:42:22] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely perfect. [00:42:24] Speaker B: And he'd. He'd got, like, the extra dick colorway package. Like, he paid extra, like, 20 grand for, like, the 18 colors, almost. [00:42:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:34] Speaker B: So. Good move, buddy. [00:42:36] Speaker A: Yeah, that was pretty beautiful. You know, we. We went back to my house over the course this weekend, like, just the most, like, perfectly American New Jersey. Things were happening. Like, one of my neighbors was having a retirement party, and so she just came and knocked on the door and then walked through my house to come give me an invitation for this. And then the next day, we were walking to the train station, and another one of my neighbors started yelling out the door to us, hey, where are you going? Should I come with you? Things like that. I was like, oh, you're getting all of the perfect Jersey people here. [00:43:13] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I. And I'll once again publicly shout Keough out. I mean, to apply the professionalism and, you know, sense of fucking just skill to something in your backyard, as I dare say you would, to an event with fucking 50, 60,000 people. [00:43:31] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. Took it totally seriously. [00:43:34] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, he did. So huge. Thanks again, dude. [00:43:37] Speaker A: Yes. Big shout out to Keo Edmondson for. Yeah. Just making the backyard look amazing, making everything run amazing. I ran into one of my neighbors, and, you know, it. It's hard to tell when you're on the microphone, how loud the microphone is. And she was like, wow. You guys talked about all kinds of things the other night, didn't you? I was like, oh, you could hear that, huh? But everyone that I've run into has been like, oh, we weren't offended by it or anything like that. It's like if you went inside, you couldn't hear it, but if you were outside, you heard the whole conversation in all its glory. [00:44:20] Speaker B: That's. Yeah. Second only to that fucking comic con pulling the plug on my video that I spent hours editing badly, and the motherfuckers pulled it on the second kill. [00:44:33] Speaker A: Yeah. At least my neighbors did not do that. [00:44:35] Speaker B: Way more understanding. [00:44:37] Speaker A: Can I tell you a crazy story? [00:44:39] Speaker B: Of course. [00:44:41] Speaker A: I'm gonna tell it here because I think it's okay. Kyo does not want me to tell any of my neighbors, and he won't let me say it on social media, but nobody. I think it's safe in the joag circle here. Okay. [00:44:54] Speaker B: Oh, please. [00:44:56] Speaker A: So, like, eight months ago, maybe somewhere in that general vicinity, there's a story in the Washington Post which Keough reads just about every day, right? About this. Like, a police chief who had been in Portland and sort of cracked down on leftist protest in Portland there, and was basically very anti. Antifa. One of those people being like, antifa is ruining everything. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. [00:45:33] Speaker B: So do the antis cancel one another out and you just. [00:45:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I think, you know. You know what I mean? She doesn't like the anti is what I'm saying. [00:45:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:42] Speaker A: Yeah. So she. She had come from Oakland before that and then moved to Philadelphia, where she became police chief. Right. As, like, the George Floyd thing happened. And as a result of this, she allowed for peaceful protesters to be tear gassed, which became, like, a huge thing and, like, a nationwide thing. Like, holy shit. This woman has unleashed tear gas on people who are literally just sitting there. Right. And there were, like, images all over. You would see pictures of these people being tear gassed while sitting peacefully protesting. So she became very infamous in the United States. And the thing about her was like, she's black. And it was like, she was the first black police chief in Portland, the first black police chief in Philadelphia. And she had this whole thing where she was coming in, and basically it was a pr move. These troubled departments brought her in to be a face that's like, look, we're not misogynistic or racist. Look at the woman who's running this thing. And her name was Danielle Outlaw, which is an incredible name. An unforgettable name, right? Like, there's a lot of times that you hear you are, you know, read a story about someone and then you forget about them, right? If the person's name is John Smith and you hear about a John Smith later on, you're never gonna think about it again. [00:47:17] Speaker B: Nope. [00:47:19] Speaker A: Well, Marka, the other day, Keo comes into the bedroom, and he's like, he'd been sleeping downstairs because I was sick. He comes upstairs, and he's like, I've realized something, and you're not gonna like it. And I'm like, what? And he's like, our next door neighbor who just moved in a few months ago, the one I thought was Denise until you told me the other day her name was Danielle. That's Danielle Outlaw. My neighbor is Danielle Outlaw. My next door neighbor. In the house next to me is tear gassing Danielle Outlaw. Anti leftist Danielle outlaw lives in the house next door to me. I say good morning to her dog Morrison, every day. [00:48:16] Speaker B: What are the chances? [00:48:18] Speaker A: What are the odds, right? And Kyo doesn't normally tell me stories from the news he reads every day. It was like he was so incensed by the story of this woman that he was like, you will not believe this person. And she moved in next door to me. [00:48:35] Speaker B: That's incredible. That is incredible. [00:48:38] Speaker A: Isn't that insane? I cannot believe it. And now, like, I don't have a poker face, Mark. I don't know what I'm gonna do. I haven't seen her in the past few days since this revelation, and I don't. The funny thing is, they're like, so she's got, like, weird vibes, as one might imagine. But, like, a week ago, she was. It must have been more than that, because it was before the meetup. She was outside with Morrison. It was like, 07:00 a.m. and we're chatting a little bit, and I'm like. I said something about, like, oh, Morrison's a west coast dog, right? And she kind of looked at me like, what? And because I hadn't talked to her about her being from the west coast, just keough had relayed to me, like, oh, she's from Oakland. And then she lived in Portland. The dog's name was Morrison. [00:49:26] Speaker B: Just leave her alone. [00:49:30] Speaker A: I'm like, oh, he's a west coast dog, right? And she kind of looks at me, like, gives me kind of a side eye, like, oh, yeah. And I was like, oh, you know, like, my dog was from the west coast too, and. But somebody liked the snow or just, like, bullshitting or whatever. And then I said to her, I was like, what's your name? Again and again, she gave me kind of, like, a look that was, like, a little weird, but I was like. I hadn't, like, been properly introduced. [00:49:53] Speaker B: She knows we had, like, straight away. [00:49:55] Speaker A: Then, but I didn't know. [00:49:58] Speaker B: What yourself right there. [00:49:59] Speaker A: I didn't know. So I was just like. Like, this was. I had no idea. I just knew she had come from Oakland. She had a dog named Morrison. And. [00:50:09] Speaker B: Sorry to do this. [00:50:09] Speaker A: I didn't know her name. [00:50:10] Speaker B: Didn't know that you didn't know? [00:50:12] Speaker A: Exactly. And so she was thinking. I can tell now, looking back, she thought I was clocking her, that I was, like, going, yeah, I know who you are. [00:50:22] Speaker B: Is her name again. Yeah. [00:50:24] Speaker A: I wasn't. Yeah, your West coast dog, right, Danielle. Like, that wasn't what I was doing. Just trying to have a conversation. And she was like, oh, this bitch knows who I am. [00:50:37] Speaker B: That's amazing. Okay, yeah, you got a few choices now. Do you maintain that energy? [00:50:44] Speaker A: Just always saying something, like, ever so slightly, like, I'm clocking her, but. [00:50:49] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:50:49] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:50:51] Speaker B: If you were to read it to a cop, you'd be like, the fuck you talking about, lady? You know what I mean? [00:50:58] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know. There's a part of me that just thinks that I should just be like, so you're Danielle outlaw, right? West coast. Pull the band aid off, you know? Like, I don't know, because I'm totally gonna be, like, a weirdo now out there. Don't say anything weird. Don't say anything weird. Don't say anything weird. And I'm just gonna, like, accidentally just mistake saying something normal with tear gas or something like, oh, no. Oh, God. [00:51:25] Speaker B: So, yeah, but just fun times, you know, as a. As a. As an event, mathematically, that is wildly unlikely, surely. [00:51:32] Speaker A: Right? Like, very fun. [00:51:35] Speaker B: Very fun. [00:51:36] Speaker A: What are the odds she works for the New Jersey Port Authority now? And. [00:51:41] Speaker B: Yeah, do keep us appraised as to how this one pans out. [00:51:45] Speaker A: I'll let you know. It's. My thought process was like, I'm just glad she didn't, like, call the cops on us over having too loud a movie the other day or anything like that. But I was like, I think she's trying to maintain a low profile. Because another thing was like, I guess when he. It's like, this is one of those. It's a crying game moment, right? Like, that's what I always say about moments like this where, like, you know, Fergus looks around the bar after he finds out about dill, and he realizes that it's been, like, a drag bar the whole time. And it's. This is that kind of moment where it's like every conversation suddenly makes sense. And he said he was having a conversation with her, and he said something about how the neighborhood is pretty political. And she said something like, oh, I'm trying to stay out of politics right now. And it's like, ah, okay. She is referencing the troubles she's had at the past several police departments that she's been in. Interesting. [00:52:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I think keep the heat on her, but in. [00:52:46] Speaker A: But just kind of really benign. [00:52:48] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. That leave possible deniability to ask oneself, is that just. Is she being a fucking. [00:52:54] Speaker A: Is she fucking with me? [00:52:55] Speaker B: Just me? Yeah. That kind of thing is precisely what is called for here. [00:53:00] Speaker A: Yeah. I'll report back and let you know how that goes. [00:53:04] Speaker B: Fascinating. Thank you, Corrigan. [00:53:06] Speaker A: Yes. But anyways, just want to say thank you to everyone who came out here for the meetup. It was so much fun. [00:53:14] Speaker B: Cover it, man. [00:53:15] Speaker A: No, it doesn't begin to cover. It's like, what do you say? After such a time as the one we had, we're just so glad that you all came out and obviously, we can't do something this big yearly, but hopefully we'll be able to do it again and bring everyone together as we did. It was so much fun. And at the end of it, of course, to really send you off. Right, your last day here, I took you shooting. Yeah, yeah. Which we have a video of on our YouTube as well, which not only did. Like, you know, you're just being silly in this video, but because of your cold, your nose is congested in the video, which makes you sound like 37 times more unhinged in it than you normally would. There's just like something about the congestion in your nose that makes you sound. [00:54:04] Speaker B: Yeah, well, yeah. [00:54:05] Speaker A: Like a crazy person. [00:54:06] Speaker B: And it's only thing I. The major thing I remember from it was being fucking an amazing shot. [00:54:12] Speaker A: So you're pretty pleased with that? You can see how well mark shot in the video that is on our YouTube, which has a lot of views. And I'm very concerned that somewhere someone is posting it. Like, see, even brits, they understand second amendment. Yeah, whatever. I ended up limiting comments because I realized I was like, this could get. This can start getting weird. [00:54:37] Speaker B: That's very. Yeah. Very forward thinking of you. Thank you. [00:54:42] Speaker A: You know, and friends since, you know, it was a crazy last month followed by being sick and all of that kind of things. I'm now getting back on top of things. So mailers are late, but they will go out within the next week or so to all of you. So thank you. Those of you who support at the top level on our ko fi, you will be getting mail soon. [00:55:07] Speaker B: A lot of fun. [00:55:07] Speaker A: Excited about it. Yes. Beautiful thing, obviously. Listen, we are sickly people. Still. The pollen count here in Montclair is through the roof, and I am dying. My nose is congested. I'm trying to talk and breathe out of my mouth. [00:55:26] Speaker B: You're doing that thing where, you know, like, imagine for me, if you will, a child's plastic doll. And when you lay it down, the eyes close, and if you hold it at like maybe a 45 degree angle, one of the eyes goes down halfway. That's kind of what you're doing. [00:55:43] Speaker A: It's true. Yeah, that's pretty accurate. Yeah, I'm dying a little bit. We're gonna take it easy today. Mark worked actually very hard on a. A topic for today, but we are just going to talk about movies and we're going to save that for two weeks from now because next week. Listen, listen, listen, listen. Our Facebook, our socials have been blowing up with some bananas stories lately. People have been posting links to all kinds of just bonkers stuff that they've seen in the news and all over the Internet lately. So next week, we're going to do a little, you know, just a little run through of some of the stuff that people have posted. Yeah. State of the world and all that. So if there's something that you think that we need to talk about, make sure that you post it on our socials, say that you want us to address it, and we will happily discuss. But there's a lot of stuff on there that I think we just need to talk about. And that will be next week. Beautiful. [00:56:39] Speaker B: All right, lovely. [00:56:39] Speaker A: But this week, spooky season has officially started. [00:56:44] Speaker B: Do I need to just go right out the gate here and get in? The fact that we need a Halloween watch along before we do need a Halloween watch along. [00:56:54] Speaker A: That's a good call. Yeah, we gotta do that. [00:56:56] Speaker B: Look at that. We're gonna be 26th and 7th there. [00:57:01] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't have my phone on me, but I don't do anything either, so. [00:57:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, well, I'll put that into the universe. Halloween 26 or 7th, my pick because it's Halloween. There we go. Way. [00:57:16] Speaker A: Did you say your pick? [00:57:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:18] Speaker A: Is that how that works? [00:57:19] Speaker B: Yep, it's Halloween. So I'm gonna pick the film. [00:57:21] Speaker A: You're just gonna pick it. No poll or anything. You're just outright. Okay, listen, you make the rules when it comes to watchalongs, so there it is. We're going to have a watch long a Halloween watch along at the end of the month. [00:57:38] Speaker B: Mark's pick, guaranteed a good time. [00:57:41] Speaker A: Guaranteed a good time, as it always is. So also this week, Kristen and I will be discussing scary stories to tell in the dark. I enjoy it quite a bit and also find it very terrifying. And the second Kristen looked at the poster yesterday, she sent me a text that said, why do you do this to me? So looking forward to talking about that on the Ko fi. So if you aren't a member yet, get on in there for $3 a month, you get to listen to me terrify Kristen every month with a new horror. [00:58:14] Speaker B: Flim value. [00:58:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I would say so. So that will be on Thursday. Thursday. Look out for that. On the Ko fi, the Joag fan cave talks about scary stories to tell in the dark. If you want to. If you haven't seen it, go ahead and watch it and it'll be a good time. We've watched some things already, though, because it is spooky season. [00:58:37] Speaker B: Yes, we have. Now then. Now then. [00:58:42] Speaker A: Now then. [00:58:43] Speaker B: We'll have to start with strange darling because that's. [00:58:46] Speaker A: Well, that is the. That's the elephant in the room. [00:58:50] Speaker B: Right. Is it, though? Fill me in, please, because I've come to this site completely unseen. Right, sure. [00:58:55] Speaker A: Yeah. Which I think most people did with strange darling. [00:58:59] Speaker B: So, what have I missed here, then? [00:59:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I will explain that to you. So I'm going to sort of spoil strange darling. If you really don't want to know, then don't listen. But I think people should know because I think it really colors this movie. So, strange darling. Spoilers, spoilers, spoilers. I mean, the twist comes only, like, a third of the way through the movie so it's not that big of a deal. But anyways, strange darling is a movie in which we sort of have, like, an out of chronological order tale of a woman who is being chased by a man with a gun. And over the course of this, we kind of see that they have been on a date that there's been some sort of rough sex happening and now he appears to be trying to murder her. Partway through this movie, we find out that it's much more complicated than that and that this is sort of her fantasy, I suppose, in which she wants this sort of very violent sex and can't get off unless things sort of escalate to a level where she is also murdering people. And it's kind of a big game, in a sense. Now, there's a scene in this that obviously is kind of the moment that I think everyone goes and you. You kind of. I don't know, you kind of forgive it for, like, the stylistic thing or what it's trying to do. But there's no doubt that there is a scene in this movie that will make you start to go, this might be a little problematic. And this is, you know, exactly what I'm talking about. [01:00:44] Speaker B: The rate at which the movie comes at you. Because it's not. It's a pacey film. It's like, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. You know what I mean? You know, a pacey, I think, is the best I can come up with. So by the time you're kind of. By the time you've realized, oh, hang on a little bit to unpack there, it's over. And the film moves on, you know. [01:01:07] Speaker A: Right. So in this scene, the female character has killed the male character and then sets herself up to look like she's been raped and was attacked. And then a male and female police officer come in and the male police officer is like, hey, we gotta, like, check the scene, make sure everything is, like, honky, dory, all that kind of stuff. And the female police officer is like, no, there's a victim here. We have to take her in. And basically, when the male cop is like, wait, but things aren't right here, she's like, you're not listening to me because I have a vagina. And the cop's like, no, I've just got a lot of experience. But he eventually listens to it her, and it gets them all killed. Right? So this movie is produced and shot by Giovanni Rubisi, a lifetime Scientologist, who asked that Danny Masterson not receive any time after he was found guilty of multiple counts of aggravated rape, saying in it, you know, I know he raped people, but I ask that you think about his family. [01:02:26] Speaker B: Sure. [01:02:27] Speaker A: And, you know, raved about what an actual stand up, sacrificial guy and all of this kind of stuff is. In this movie, we have the story of a woman when sex goes wrong, lying about having been raped, when she's really the offender in all of the things that have happened here. Further, we have sort of an innocent couple along this line that she murders the man in. And you have this woman eventually come stumbling out saying, she killed us. She killed us. As if to say, this woman with her fake rape story has murdered our beautiful family here. Right? And this is, like, deeply icky when you consider this in the light of someone who has been defending and covering up for a rapist for the past 20 years. Like, it was already. When I was watching it, I was like, ooh, I don't know about this, like, message, but. Okay, like, I think it's a misfire on attempting. Right? Like, that was how I read it was like, it's a misfire on attempting to have a, like, bad female character. Right? Like, we want to see female villains. Let's make complicated female villains. This is just a misfire. When you find out it is produced and shot by a man who has been defending a rapist for decades, it suddenly becomes a lot more nefarious than a misfire. That feels intentional to me. You know, he's relating this to his life experience. [01:04:06] Speaker B: Uh, well, look, coming at it all, I. At face value, the. The worst I could say, but the film is that it's obnoxious. [01:04:14] Speaker A: It's very obnoxious. Yeah. I start with, like, this was shot in fully in 35 millimeter. [01:04:24] Speaker B: And you're like, if I. If you found out, like, after knowing me for a fortnight or three weeks, that, like, I was super into vinyl all right, fine. Or a hardcore, you know, I drove a fucking cyber truck or whatever. But if I introduce myself with, how's it going? I'm Mark, and I'm really heavily into vinyl, then you could rightly think I'm a smug. [01:04:50] Speaker A: You're a bit of a tool. [01:04:51] Speaker B: Listen, I applaud the fact that this film committed to that, you know, process. [01:04:57] Speaker A: It looks beautiful, and it does, you. [01:04:59] Speaker B: Know, and it pays off. It's lovely that the film is. It was kind of created the way it was. It looks gorgeous. But to write up front, this film is entirely shut. I'm 35 millimeter. Fuck off, mate. [01:05:12] Speaker A: The whole. Yeah. The way. The out of chronological order stuff and everything. Like it. I'm doing art, you know. [01:05:20] Speaker B: Well, it isn't just. It isn't just that. It's. I'm doing Tarantino. [01:05:24] Speaker A: It is, yeah. 100%. [01:05:25] Speaker B: Yeah. It's so slavish to that, to the point. You know, the out of. Out of chronology storytelling, the obnoxious, eventually obnoxious use of on screen fucking gimmickry title cards and fucking captions and shapes and colors. I don't need it, ladsen. I'm not a fucking infant. So, yeah, it's more of a pastiche than it has anything of its own to say. [01:05:57] Speaker A: And I think that's the thing. [01:05:59] Speaker B: Other than that, without knowing anything of what you just related to me, I actually found it quite stylish. [01:06:05] Speaker A: Well, that's like. I think when I was watching it before I saw Giovanni Rubisi's name, I thought it was annoying, for sure. I was like, this is an obnoxious movie. I was kind of, like, in it, though, because it is beautifully shot, beautifully acted. I love Kyle Gallner. That girl from the Mike Flanagan thing, that's the lead in this. Troubling to look at. [01:06:35] Speaker B: Guy was in that one we liked, wasn't he? [01:06:37] Speaker A: Passengers? [01:06:38] Speaker B: That's the one that. [01:06:40] Speaker A: Yeah. And he's been a. He's been in horror movies since he was, like, a teenager. He's well established in the genre. Yeah. I find Willa something. I think her name is the lead in that. She's troubling to look at. She's just troubling to look at. But she is a very good actress. It's like the girl from stranger things. It's just kind of like, sure, I feel like I'm just signing on for your eating disorder by watching this, but she's a great actress. They are. You know, all of that is good. It looks good. I mean, there's a reason that Tarantino films are popular. I don't like Tarantino, but, like, you know, they look stylish. They're doing their thing, so, like, as an imitation Tarantino, but that's. [01:07:25] Speaker B: I think it is, you know. [01:07:26] Speaker A: Yeah. And I started to feel like, you know, once the sort of conceit was revealed, it dragged a little bit for me where I was like, okay, now what? Like, I get it now. Now where are we going with this? And it didn't feel like it had, like, a lot more to it, which is why when it suddenly makes that jump to, like, the fake rape story and the, you know, the male cop being right about not believing her and, you know, this weird, like, anti feminist moment, I was like, this is. Is this what it has to say? This seems weird. Yeah. So what? Like, without knowing that, I think my kind of thing was like, there's stuff to like about it. It insists upon itself too much or whatever, but, like, you know, likable enough, but it becomes. Yeah, a little gross. When you think about who made it. [01:08:14] Speaker B: I will retroactively knock off a star. There you go. For you. [01:08:20] Speaker A: That seems for me. Don't do it on my account. I just think, like, when you consider, you know, the things like that, it's hard not to have it color your. [01:08:33] Speaker B: Opinion, you know, start off then, for you. [01:08:40] Speaker A: I said to mark at the beginning of this, I was like, I'm sorry. I take no pleasure in this, but I am gonna have to ruin this for you. [01:08:47] Speaker B: I'm not proud. [01:08:48] Speaker A: So strange, darling, is what it is. [01:08:50] Speaker B: All right? [01:08:50] Speaker A: Scientology ruining everything for 40 years or whatever. [01:08:57] Speaker B: I don't think in the history of Joag, has there ever been a conversation that there's less point in having as the one that we're about to just briefly have about VHS? Beyond, no conversation has ever been more pointless between two people. Right? [01:09:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:09:12] Speaker B: Because you won't like it at all. I liked it somewhat. And there'll be another one in a few months. [01:09:18] Speaker A: Yeah. And they will just keep happening every year from now until long after both of us are gone. [01:09:24] Speaker B: Yep. It's. It continues in its groove. I love that it's unexpected. I love that you never know where it's going to end up. I love that it's largely, or seems largely practical effects. [01:09:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:09:36] Speaker B: I love. It's like. It's like going to see Gua. You know, big, ridiculous masks and costumes and gushing prosthetics and a whole lot of fun. I enjoy VHS. I enjoyed a great deal. [01:09:49] Speaker A: Now, Cory, I'm curious. [01:09:51] Speaker B: Tell me why I'm wrong, and let's move on. [01:09:53] Speaker A: I can't tell you. I have not seen this. And like I said in the last. [01:09:57] Speaker B: One, you kind of have. If you've seen any one of the. [01:09:59] Speaker A: Last ones, if you haven't seen it. I mean, I think. I think I said it on here. Like, when would we have talked about this? But, like, my thing with VHS is, like, I loathe the first one for its rapey bullshit, and the other ones I just don't think are very good. It's not like a yemenite, you know, I don't have a principled stance on VHS as a franchise, aside from that first one that I think is abhorrent. But other than that, I'm just like. [01:10:22] Speaker B: Check back in, man. Check back in. Look, I did it for scream. You know, maybe you can. You can maybe do this one little. Do this one for me. No. Look, if I'm gonna redeem a friend, if I'm gonna make you rewatch a franchise, which I think I. You do owe me after scream, it certainly is. [01:10:38] Speaker A: But you liked it, and you did it for your son, not for me. [01:10:42] Speaker B: Bulacao. [01:10:43] Speaker A: What is this revisionist thing happening here? But fine. What franchise am I supposed to watch? [01:10:51] Speaker B: I'll think of it like my money in the bank briefcase, right? I'll just keep it for when I need it. But not. I'm just gonna call myself out for a little moment here, because no one else will do it. And I think the way that I dealt with my kind of 180 on screen was very mature. [01:11:06] Speaker A: It was very mature, very grown up. Well, hey, from the beginning of this, you have always said that you are happy to be wrong. [01:11:16] Speaker B: I love it. I have. I have actually. [01:11:19] Speaker A: This is actually a characteristic of yours, so I'm not surprised that you were able to reckon with this. [01:11:28] Speaker B: Good. Right? What else? [01:11:33] Speaker A: I can't remember what I was gonna say. Oh, I was just gonna ask about VHS beyond, like, is there, like, a gimmick to the way it's shot? This is, like. I feel like that's, like, the one thing between, like, me being like, fine, I will, like, give it a try, versus, like, no, I'm not even gonna deal with this because, like, with the. The attempting to put, like, a filter that makes things look like whatever year it's supposed to be on, all the. [01:11:58] Speaker B: Right. What's a gimmick to the way it's shot? What do you mean? Like, you know? [01:12:04] Speaker A: Right, right. But, like, putting, like, a VHS filter over all of the segments so that they're, like. They look old or whatever like that. I find that grating to try to watch. [01:12:16] Speaker B: Look, the gimmicks are conspicuous. Right? [01:12:19] Speaker A: Okay. [01:12:20] Speaker B: Just nothing about VHS is subtle. The gimmicks are in your face. [01:12:25] Speaker A: I just don't want to have to watch through like grainy tracking. [01:12:28] Speaker B: No, and you don't the entire time. You don't the entire time. You know, in the. The format, the fact that each story has maybe 40, 45 minutes, it has to. It has to say, well, they aren't short films. They clock in at about 2 hours each. But yeah, you know, your creators have to tell this story in however they can. And that might involve slapping a fucking VHS or, you know, a filter over some footage and maybe like a little red dot to indicate that it's recording. You know, get used to that shit. But yeah, as the franchise has gone on, you've heard me fucking say this so many times before. It's lent in to this vibe that where the fucking story starts is nowhere near where it ends. And I enjoy the ride. [01:13:15] Speaker A: Sure. [01:13:16] Speaker B: You know, we'll see. [01:13:18] Speaker A: Maybe, maybe it'll make it into my watches. I've. I watch a lot of things in October, so. [01:13:23] Speaker B: Sure, sure. [01:13:24] Speaker A: Let's see, we did yesterday together. So I have been doing my. Cory can't draw a weens and I basically made like an alphabetical list. So the first 26 days of this month are all sort of planned out alphabetically. And yesterday was f. And I had planned to watch freaked. And since Mark, you had family over and couldn't record, it's like, hey, why don't we watch that together? This is a movie that you had told me about probably, I don't know, a year or something ago. [01:14:03] Speaker B: You were hitherto unaware of its existence. No. [01:14:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Had never heard of it before, which is. I know, and a darn shame though. [01:14:11] Speaker B: Because a little nugget that you didn't know about. Beauty. [01:14:14] Speaker A: Yeah. If I had seen this, you know, every now and again we watch a movie that I go, if I had seen this when I was, you know, eight, I would have watched this every day and freaked is absolutely one of those movies. I'mma let you try to explain this one because this is. It's so. I mean, it's kind of all over the place. [01:14:34] Speaker B: So imagine a comedy with the kind of gag rate of something like Naked gun. [01:14:40] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. [01:14:41] Speaker B: You know what I mean? Just. It doesn't matter if you don't particularly find a joke funny. Fuck off. Cause there's another one about eight, seven. Just bang, bang, bang. Gag, gag. Gag mix in with that. Just small. A anarchic kind of sense of humor, bodily functions. Fucking ableist fucking. There's a kind of. It was acceptable in the nineties kind of racism to it all. [01:15:08] Speaker A: Yeah. It's that weird moment where, like, to say it's ableist and racist. I feel like it's trying to transcend that completely in a way that's very. [01:15:20] Speaker B: It doesn't. It doesn't really give a fuck. [01:15:24] Speaker A: Actually, because it's certainly, like, it's a very stupid movie about a celebrity played by Alex Winter, who is. He's hired to represent. [01:15:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:15:39] Speaker A: Chemical company. [01:15:41] Speaker B: Yeah. Like a. A pesticide company, like a farm kind of agriculture. Chemical company. [01:15:48] Speaker A: Everything except shoes. [01:15:49] Speaker B: Everything but shoes. Zygrot 385 or whatever. Which obviously is a powerful mutagen. See, but here's the thing. If it sounds annoying, don't think that because it isn't. It's super inventive. It kind of. It kind of beats you up. It's a movie that kind of smacks you about. [01:16:11] Speaker A: And it is, like, actively, like, in its stupidity, it is very much a commentary on capitalism and corporatism and all this kind of stuff and the way that we treat people who are seen as abnormal in society and things like that. I was reading reviews of this, and people were like, it's really weird that Mister T in this movie is probably amongst the best trans representation you get in all of the nineties. It's very true. It's. But it's a nineties movie, so some of the stuff that is meant to be transgressive reads racist and ableist now, because you're like, oh, come on. [01:16:50] Speaker B: Jesus Christ. It kind of reads in a similar way to the same kind of comedy as we saw recently in Gremlins two. You know it. [01:16:59] Speaker A: Yeah. Very off the wall, very often. [01:17:01] Speaker B: Not subtle at all. Speaks directly to you as an audience. It revels in what it is and what it is. [01:17:07] Speaker A: You've got Bobcat Goldthwaite, you've got what? [01:17:10] Speaker B: I can't. [01:17:10] Speaker A: Keanu Reeves. What's the crazy Quaid. Randy. [01:17:14] Speaker B: Randy Quaid. Not Randy when he's the toy story guy. [01:17:19] Speaker A: Yeah, it's madcap. [01:17:23] Speaker B: Yeah. It's zany, for want of a better word. But don't you fucking dare tell me that you didn't enjoy it. It's. It's. [01:17:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, it was a great time. [01:17:29] Speaker B: You can't help. [01:17:30] Speaker A: But it felt like if you grew up on Nickelodeon in the early nineties, in the days of, like, Pete and Pete and Rocco's modern life and all of those kinds of things. Like this is, this is the kind of humor and like cranked to 211 adhd ass. Yeah. Ren and Stimpy. All of that things like made by people with executive dysfunction kind of shit that, you know. Yeah. Mile a minute. Crazy stuff. Yeah. Freaked is a great time. I recommend it. [01:17:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm delighted that. [01:18:00] Speaker A: Happy to watch it. [01:18:01] Speaker B: A first watch for you and one that had gone eluded you all this time. Beautiful. [01:18:06] Speaker A: It's a beautiful. Thank you for mentioning it many moons ago so that it was in my watch list under. [01:18:13] Speaker B: Do we need to spend that long talking about Salem's lot? I don't think so. [01:18:16] Speaker A: I don't. Not really. Listen, I've never read the book and I watched the miniseries a couple weeks ago and it was very boring. And this, I thought it was fine. And I really like the vibe. You liked it? Less. Like vibe wise. I enjoyed the glowing crosses and the color and all that kind of stuff in this movie. Made no impression. It's not something I'm going to take with me. But I also can see myself putting it on in the background. Like fully serviceable background vampire movie. [01:18:52] Speaker B: Yeah. All of which. The lead guy's cute, I would echo. Right. Serviceable background vampire movie. I think had this movie hit around. Remember the fright night remake? [01:19:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:19:08] Speaker B: If maybe this had come out around then, I think probably it would have made more of an impression. [01:19:13] Speaker A: Yeah, it's very much got that feel to it. [01:19:15] Speaker B: Yep, it does. I wonder if the fact that it's 2024 and Salem's lot is kind of just now an entry level kind of vampire story, right? [01:19:25] Speaker A: Yeah. That's what you're saying is it's like. It's just like now. Very basic. [01:19:30] Speaker B: Exactly. Exactly. [01:19:32] Speaker A: Maybe a classic movie is what it gets. [01:19:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, nothing I'm ever gonna watch again, but. All right, fair enough. Whatever. [01:19:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Now that we're talking about it, though, I kind of want to just put it on in the background again. I didn't draw my freaked. I didn't draw my freaked picture yesterday, so maybe I'll do it with Salem's lot on in the background so I'm not missing anything. You should. [01:19:53] Speaker B: The kids finally saw Deadpool and Wolverine or nice. Nothing more to say about that. [01:19:59] Speaker A: Yeah, you've obviously raved about it before. [01:20:01] Speaker B: Beautiful, speak no evil. [01:20:05] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. I am so interested in this because notoriously I hate the original, but I have seen everybody say that this one is better than the OG. [01:20:16] Speaker B: See, again, dear listener, a little bit of context on the cultural exchange here that is always ongoing, right. 24/7 whenever Corey and I linked up. Cultural exchanges going on. And we had a little bit of a sidebar discussion of what now for Blumhouse. [01:20:34] Speaker A: Mmm. Yes. [01:20:36] Speaker B: You know. [01:20:37] Speaker A: Yeah, we did. [01:20:39] Speaker B: They've proven that they're great at a kind of a on ramp horror left column kind of five nights at Freddy's Meghan entry level. [01:20:47] Speaker A: You know, good to. Good to watch with friends. Yeah. Nobody's gonna be offended, nor are they going to have nightmares. It's just. [01:20:55] Speaker B: But on the other hand, they're also it, I think. I don't want to speak for you, Corrigan, but it also feels this thunder stick in our fucking crawl a little bit at being shit when they try to take Korra seriously. Like that one with the what if? A swimming pool, but haunted. [01:21:11] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. Or what was that? I actually. I apparently didn't write it down. Oh, no, I did the one that I watched the other day, which spawned this house of spoils, which is on Amazon prime, which is fucking terrible. And it's trying so hard. It's trying so hard to be elevated. You know, you've got Ariana Dubose. Like, she's literally an Oscar winner in this movie trying to do. Yeah. Oh, it's woofy CGI terribleness. Like, just a waste of your time and trying so hard. Not what they're there for. [01:21:48] Speaker B: Not at all. Not at all. Particularly not when Neon are killing it as much as they are. 824 always delivering goods. [01:21:54] Speaker A: There's plenty of people making your elevated horror at this point. [01:21:59] Speaker B: Blumhouse will let you have horror for kids. And you can also have the odd remake. If you're gonna do as good as speak no evil, you can have those. [01:22:07] Speaker A: Um, okay. [01:22:08] Speaker B: Because, well, I did. Now, again, context. I didn't hate the original. In fact, I enjoyed it a great deal. [01:22:14] Speaker A: Sure. [01:22:15] Speaker B: Um, but I can see why it might need some corners shaved off. And I can see why there's money to be made. Um, but, uh, don't tell me you don't like your man McAvoy. Don't tell me you don't like him. [01:22:34] Speaker A: I would never. I chased this man down a street in Glasgow. I liked me some James McAvoy, and he's excellent. And I love Scoot McNary as well. Scoot McNary is one of my faves, so. Already in on that. [01:22:47] Speaker B: Certainly a name, isn't it? [01:22:50] Speaker A: It is certainly a name, and I adore him. But anyway, Mackenzie something or other. [01:22:59] Speaker B: I don't know. [01:23:00] Speaker A: She's good too. [01:23:02] Speaker B: Look, this is it. Everyone is good. And not only is everyone good, they seem to be. They seem to be more. They seem to bring more human than those fucking dickheads from the original who just floundered about doing fuck all and then quite rightly, got stoned to death in a quarry. [01:23:20] Speaker A: Right. It's like nobody has deserved it more than those assholes in the original. I am sorry, I. Somebody else would have murdered you if they didn't. It was just your personalities were leading you here. [01:23:35] Speaker B: They had no defense mechanisms. Yep. Look, you might disagree, but these lot felt way more believable. Obviously, that ending had to go. So there's a different kind of last 15 minutes in there, which sat just fine with me, had a great time and enjoyed it even more than the ogden. Good laugh. [01:23:57] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. For some reason, the version that's on Plex will only play five minutes of it for me. And so I'm gonna have to wait until it's actually, I'll take a look. [01:24:06] Speaker B: At that for you. [01:24:07] Speaker A: It just starts, like, mid. Midway through the movie, in the middle of a scene, and then just plays five minutes of it. I was like, oh, no, no. Because I did try to watch it last night. [01:24:18] Speaker B: I was like, yes, that will never. [01:24:20] Speaker A: Do it will nothing. Sorry about that. [01:24:25] Speaker B: It for me. [01:24:27] Speaker A: Okay, well, I have a few more. Cause like I said, doing my. Cory can't draw lweens. If you're not familiar with Cory can't draw Lween. I am not very good at drawing, but I recognize that. Well, a part of this is, as we discussed, not being able to picture. [01:24:41] Speaker B: Things because you have aphantasia. [01:24:43] Speaker A: Exactly. But B, like everyone else, it's a matter of practice. Right. You get better by practicing things. And so years ago, I decided I wanted to get better at drawing. So I started drawing things every year at Halloween. And also it was sort of an exercise in, like, I've always been, like, a bit of a perfectionist and, like, embarrassed by being bad at something. And I've always hated not being good at something on the first try. And so doing this was a way for me to put something out into the world that I am not good at. Some of the drawings are deeply bad. And just like, be like, that's fine, you know, I don't need to be embarrassed that there's a thing I'm not good at. Right. [01:25:31] Speaker B: The coolest. You know, it's so relatable and so authentic and so human. That early stage of practicing something, being comfortable at being shit at it. [01:25:42] Speaker A: Right? [01:25:42] Speaker B: Knowing that that's just an unnecessary stage of getting good at something, isn't it? Yeah. [01:25:47] Speaker A: And because I don't do it enough in between, I, like, I'll improve by the end of the month. And then next year when I go back into it again, it's kind of back to square one again. [01:25:55] Speaker B: But something I believe is that a lot of ineptitude is down to fear. [01:25:59] Speaker A: Oh, 100%. [01:26:01] Speaker B: I see this so often in leadership at work of people who are so fucking terrified of not instantly appearing to have an answer, to have the right fucking response, to be able to do the right thing and the shit decisions and the shit leadership that come from people like that. [01:26:18] Speaker A: Right. As opposed to people have to be okay. [01:26:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:26:22] Speaker A: With not. Not knowing, with not me. [01:26:25] Speaker B: No idea. Right here, right now. No idea. [01:26:27] Speaker A: Because I need to work on that, you know? And it's helped, I think that in a lot of ways, like being able to like, podcast and things like that, and sometimes things coming out shit or whatever, like, has been the growth process of doing this has helped me to be better at, like, taking criticism at work, like, you know, having a joke deleted from a script or something like that. Like, I don't like, take it personally or anything like that. Like, I think that doing Cory can't draw a Wayne has really sort of helped me to let go. The feeling like everything has to be perfect and that it's like that showing a vulnerability is embarrassing, you know, beautiful. So. So that's why I've been doing this. And thus I've been watching these movies. So I. My alphabetical movies. I watched absurd, which apparently. [01:27:23] Speaker B: What kind. What led you to absurd? [01:27:26] Speaker A: Starts with an a. Ab. [01:27:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:27:31] Speaker A: Yeah. It was in my watch list. I think a couple other people had watched it recently, including, I think, Eileen. I lean, by the way. Hop in the chat, hop in the. Hop on Facebook. You've been watching so many movies lately and I'm very curious as to, are the kids just old enough? They go to bed and you can watch. Watch stuff now she has been absolutely absorbing harm. Oh, did you? Yeah, I wanted to ask about it. I somewhat feel bad. I barely talked to anyone at the party because I was just trying to get things going, make food, get stuff like, you know, put everything in place and all that. So I had questions I wanted to ask people, but I was like, barely amongst folks, but. [01:28:17] Speaker B: And then you were a tour guide. [01:28:18] Speaker A: And then I was a tour guide, so I missed out on some of these conversations, but watched absurd, which you said is one of your favorite video nasties. [01:28:27] Speaker B: It is one of my favorite video nasties with one of my favorite premises, one of my favorite performers. [01:28:33] Speaker A: What premise? [01:28:36] Speaker B: The fact that there's a priest who has chosen to, and this is a paraphrase, a quote of his, serve his lord through bioengineering. Badass. Right? [01:28:48] Speaker A: Yeah. I think Eileen brought up that line as well when we were talking about it in a message. [01:28:53] Speaker B: Badass as fuck. Um, it's got one of the best, most iconic and slept on video nasty era villains, the beast, the anthropophagous beast. Kevin Eastman. All fucking seven foot odd of him. [01:29:07] Speaker A: Right. [01:29:09] Speaker B: The kills are inventive, iconic, cruel. [01:29:14] Speaker A: Really? Hugely. [01:29:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:29:16] Speaker A: Yeah. The movie itself, as a whole, I didn't like the movie because all of that is true. Great kills, great baddie, great music, great soundtrack. Yeah, well, the music kind of grated on me after a while. But the thing is that there is a lot of dead time in between anything happening in this movie that drags. And it's like, for the. I guess the plot is absurd. Absurd is a weird title for this movie, but it just feels like there's, like, not much going on. And what is going on is, like, conversations that you deeply do not care about. And so when it gets to, like, kills and stuff like that, you're like, that guy is terrifying. And these kills are hardcore. There's a woman being shoved into an oven I in this movie that is, like, horrifying and lasts for, like, five to seven minutes in this voyeuristic shit. Right? Like, watching her, like, more and more, her face blister and, you know, as she fights. And all this stuff, like, these kills are incredible. Don't get me wrong, it's just like, on the whole, it's hard. [01:30:32] Speaker B: I think the oven might have been one of the later shots in our video that got pulled. I'm pretty sure something from absurd might have been in that little montage. [01:30:43] Speaker A: I wouldn't doubt it. So, yeah, I didn't. I didn't love the movie, but I can appreciate it. And like we discussed last week, you know, video nasties aren't known for their quality. The reason that people watched them was because they were forbidden. And so as far as video nasties go, this is definitely not the worst one that I've seen. Not by a long shot. [01:31:04] Speaker B: No. And the. It's one of the rare ones that the kills, I think, probably would have justified at the time. [01:31:13] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's true. Where some of them, you look at. [01:31:18] Speaker B: Them like, what the shit? Whereas this. Do you remember Marco's video rant? [01:31:25] Speaker A: Yes. Love those. Would love to have one or two of those again. They're a lot of fun. [01:31:30] Speaker B: We'll talk about it. There's a montage of death in the little intro that I put together for that, and one of them is the head through the bandsaw from absurd. [01:31:38] Speaker A: That's right. [01:31:39] Speaker B: Yep. Just. Bravo. Such good kills. [01:31:42] Speaker A: Yep, definitely. So I will not fault at that. You're 100% correct about it. The things that you named. Great. It was just the movie around those things had me a little bored. Then I watched a movie called the Believers. That was b. [01:31:58] Speaker B: Did you draw something from absurd, by the way? [01:32:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I tried to draw the lady with the drill through her head, the nurse in it, to mid link success. I didn't have an eraser, so everything in that picture is my first try. I bought an eraser the next day. [01:32:16] Speaker B: Does absurd make a bit more sense in the context of something like terrifier? You can see where terrifyer is reaching from. [01:32:24] Speaker A: Sure. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, people can have the same complaints about terrifyer as well. Like, you see, people talk about that with the first movie. Like, what is. There's not, like, really a story here. It's just a vessel for insane kills. Right. Yeah. So definitely you can see the lineage there. You can see where the inspiration came from. But the believers, I'm not going to say a ton about this. This is a sort of cult movie from the early nineties with, I want to say Michael Douglas, but that's not the guy. Who is the Estevez dad? [01:33:05] Speaker B: Martin Sheen. [01:33:06] Speaker A: That's the one. Martin Sheen. Something about when I heard of both those men when I was a kid makes them completely interchangeable. To me. They were just, like, gray haired. Exactly. So, like, I can never quite remember. Martin Sheen is. Is the lead in this movie, the believers. And, yeah, it's a thriller of sorts about a man who. I don't even want to talk about it. It's just. Don't watch it. The more I, like, thought about it, I was like, why am I going to waste my time? Don't watch the believers. It's a boring, nonsensical movie that's a little bit racist. You don't need to watch the believers. It's fine for C. I watched Clearcut, which we were going to watch months ago, and then ended up watching something else. Clearcut is a movie about a lawyer who is trying to fight for an indigenous tribe in Canada to not have the trees cut down and destroy the ecosystem where they live. And basically their entire way of life. And when he fails at doing that, one of the indigenous people, played by Graham Green, who is always amazing, decides to take matters into his own hands and makes the lawyer help him to kidnap the head of the corporation. And they do that. And there's some real gorye stuff in here, including, like, him starting to like, skin the guy alive and like, all kinds of stuff like that through this movie. So it has some very horrific stuff, but mostly it's this sort of tense film about like a white lawyer who, you know, he thinks that you can fix things by just following the laws. And if you fight hard enough, the right thing will happen. And what does he do when that doesn't work? And he's faced with someone doing something that he doesn't believe in when things. [01:35:06] Speaker B: Aren'T quite so clear cut. [01:35:11] Speaker A: Ah, yeah, I think you. I think you might have picked up a theme here. [01:35:16] Speaker B: I don't think I need to anymore. [01:35:18] Speaker A: Yeah, you've already aced clearcut, so there you go. No, I recommend it. It's a good movie. Beautifully shot. You know, the big forest scenes and all kinds of stuff. Graham Green playing this really interesting character. I think probably a case can be made for the best role he's ever played. It's on shudder, so you can watch clear cut yourself. It's good to know. [01:35:42] Speaker B: Is it as good as on deadly ground starring Steven Seagal? [01:35:48] Speaker A: I have not seen that. Is that about indigenous people? [01:35:52] Speaker B: It is. Steve Seagal saves them, in fact, from pollution. [01:35:56] Speaker A: Yes, he does. What a guy. Steven Seagal. [01:35:59] Speaker B: Yeah. By learning their ways. [01:36:05] Speaker A: For D. I went back to, you know, the other ones were all first watches, but I went back to dead silence because Anna watched it the other day and I was like, man, I just really want to watch dead silence. A James Wan joint, early James wan joint about a killer ventriloquist dummy. It's gory as fuck. And it is just what I love about this. And I think this is, you know, even though I don't like malignant, I think the thing about James Wan is that he really, he likes a certain period of film and storytelling. And I've said lately that one of the things that I've kind of been leaning into lately is watching old movies because they don't feel the need to, like, explain or justify everything, right? Like, it doesn't. Like they're not looking for a whole bunch of internal coherence because they weren't experiencing, expecting someone to go through and be like, well, that doesn't make sense because if it was this time in this place, you know, it's the, like. [01:37:00] Speaker B: They weren't expecting the Internet, right? [01:37:02] Speaker A: They weren't expecting the Internet. They weren't expecting people to make a cottage industry out of pulling apart the threads of movies. They just expected you go to sit down and have a good time. And Dead Silence is very much that kind of movie where it's just like a classic ass ghost story with, you know, heinous slashery, murder, violence stuff in it that comes together with a story that, yeah, if you pick it apart, it probably doesn't totally make sense, but it's creepy and spooky and accomplishes everything that you want in a ghost story horror movie. So I absolutely love Dead Silence. It's a good time and I recommend people watching it if they haven't seen it. [01:37:44] Speaker B: You've sold me with the goal. [01:37:46] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, it is. It's pretty gross, man. Definitely worth it for some good practical gore in that, which is also a thing I love. E was evolver with Ethan Embry, a movie that I hadn't seen since I was a tween in which a teenager wins a contest and gets this sort of AI bot brought to his home to play a game with him. Basically going to learn from its surroundings and everything that is happening. And John Delancey, aka Q, is sort of this programmer, and he's like, listen, every time it fills up a disc, you're going to send me that disc. It's going to have recorded everything. We're going to learn stuff from it. But the problem with Evolver is that he evolves and starts realizing that when he makes kills in this game he's playing with the kids, the kids aren't dying. So he needs to start leveling up to figure out how to actually kill these kids like he's supposed to. And this movie, it's basically, it's the tone of like a Disney Channel original movie, but like, as a slasher. And so, like, it has no problem just murdering children brutally in this film. [01:39:02] Speaker B: Hearing kind of, where's this film been all my entire adult life? [01:39:08] Speaker A: It's a fun little, just piece of like nineties. Yeah, just a little bite of the nineties idea of like, AI and VR and it's a super fun time. Evolver is great. And if you're in America, it is on tubi, I believe, so. Easily accessible. [01:39:27] Speaker B: We have to watch a demolition man soon. [01:39:29] Speaker A: Yes, we do. We're gonna record a snack on Demolition man next week. So we will watch that perhaps sometime this week, which will be a lot of fun. So if you haven't watched demolition man for our snack for this month, go ahead and do that so we can talk about what it got right and wrong about the time which we live. [01:39:48] Speaker B: Perhaps we'll set our ass on discord while it's on. [01:39:52] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. That's a good idea. [01:39:53] Speaker B: Our newly refurbished discord. [01:39:56] Speaker A: Yes. Again, that Xander spent so much time on. And it looks amazing. Like I said, freaked was my f. That was last night. And then I also, last night watched the OG Dracula from 1931, which I have only seen once before when I was teaching. And I took over for another teacher who went on maternity leave, and it was on the list of things to watch. I remember at the time thinking, this is kind of boring. And it is boring. It's not. Not nearly as good as the book, but the vibe is immaculate. Have you seen the original Dracula? [01:40:39] Speaker B: Are you talking to me about Peter Cushing Bela Lugosi? Okay. No. Then, no, I have not. [01:40:46] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:40:47] Speaker B: I've seen plenty of hammer Draculas. [01:40:49] Speaker A: Yeah, right. Exactly. I think that's like, kind of, what? Like, I grew up on hammer Draculas and stuff like that. But no, the original Bela Lugosi 1931 Dracula. The thing is, the least interesting thing about the book to me is just Mina slowly going crazy or whatever, in her room, locked away in her room. And that's basically what the movie focuses on. [01:41:18] Speaker B: The. Even the vibe is one of the. Look, I've never made a Dracula movie, but surely to fuck the vibe is one of the easiest things to get right about that piece. [01:41:30] Speaker A: Well, I think that it's setting the precedent. So movies have been emulating Dracula's vibe ever since, and it is perfection. One thing I was thinking, though, while I was watching it is it's wild that when people saw this, they didn't have a concept of Dracula yet, like an image of Dracula, because when you're watching it in 2024, nearly 100 years later, you're like, as soon as I see that guy that looks like a Dracula, I would simply leave, yeah, that's clearly Dracula. But that just was what, like, an exotic count would look like to them. So, you know, they didn't know that was what? Vampires. [01:42:10] Speaker B: Which one? Dracula. [01:42:14] Speaker A: Right. I do love in. In that one, though, that Renfield is just, like, such a dumb fuck. He is just completely credulous little goober in it in a way that is deeply funny to me. So it did have that going for it vibes on point, and it's only like an hour and 18 minutes or something like that. [01:42:32] Speaker B: So those only worth it for the. [01:42:34] Speaker A: History and the vibes. [01:42:35] Speaker B: They knew what they were fucking doing, what they're doing. [01:42:38] Speaker A: And the last thing that I watched last night was Halloween three, a movie which I always like the idea of more than the execution. I think I like the big swing. I think it's just such an off the wall movie. But it also is very boring story. [01:43:01] Speaker B: Behind that, how that ended up being Halloween. That has to have been another film that was, yeah. [01:43:07] Speaker A: That they co opted into it. Yeah. It's such a bizarre choice because it has nothing to do with Halloween, but Halloween exists in the world of Halloween three. Like, so they're showing it on tv in the movie. [01:43:24] Speaker B: Oh, shit. I didn't know that. [01:43:25] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's like that a lot. Yeah, right. Like, that's the thing is I think, like, the pieces of this movie are really interesting and that they've chosen to do something crazy and they are willing to murder a child in one of the horrendous, most horrendous child murder scenes I've ever seen in anything. It's just relentless. It's so long and horrifying. Cis kid's head just like, slowly caves in and more and more bugs and things start crawling out of it. You're like, what the fuck? But yeah. Like, as a whole coherent or cohesive movie. Like, a lot of it, you're just kind of like, there's nothing happening. This is. There's not anything happening here until it gets, like, bonkers in the last 20 minutes or so of it. But, yeah, I appreciate that Halloween three exists. I'm not like one of those people who's like, this is the greatest Halloween. I mean, Halloween is not the best slasher franchise either. So I appreciate that it's a swing in the franchise. [01:44:34] Speaker B: That's an exercise that I'm certain somebody else has done before me. I'd quite like to know what is the franchise with, like, mathematically, statistically the best hit rate? [01:44:46] Speaker A: Seriously? [01:44:48] Speaker B: Is it fucking, what is it? [01:44:50] Speaker A: Tell me another one. Yeah, listen, so you're still like, your knee jerk going back to the, like, the way you thought about it before, but now that you need. The hit rate is very high compared to most other franchises. [01:45:04] Speaker B: I think it might be evil dead, you know? [01:45:08] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a valid. That's valid. Actually. I kind of beats. [01:45:14] Speaker B: If you were to break each movie down, like, beats within the films. It's so consistently. [01:45:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:45:21] Speaker B: Good. [01:45:21] Speaker A: I'd say this is a reasonable entry into that. Friends, let us know if you. What, what do you think? Like, let's take our own. You know, this is my favorite out of it or whatever. Yeah, but, like, in terms of if you were to think about, like, the most well received entries across the board. Right. Because, like, we can, like Nightmare on Elm street, great franchise, but, like. [01:45:45] Speaker B: Yeah. And there's obviously categorically ones that are in with that. [01:45:49] Speaker A: Right. But, yeah, but there's some that, like, dreams a terrible movie. Right. Like, we. You just got to acknowledge things like that. That happens in franchises that we love. [01:46:00] Speaker B: That's gonna lower the hit rate of the franchise as a whole. What I'm talking about holistically. [01:46:05] Speaker A: Mm hmm. [01:46:06] Speaker B: Which franchise keeps the fucking quality right up throughout the entire generation? [01:46:11] Speaker A: So do let us know if you have other. Scream, evil dead other things that you think the quality, even when it dips, is still at, like, pretty good. [01:46:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I think I might be paging Hal rankers there. Aren't we really? [01:46:27] Speaker A: Maybe a little bit. Well, I would say maybe Anna and Steve have. They've seen a few franchises. They might. [01:46:33] Speaker B: Yeah. You're not wrong. [01:46:36] Speaker A: So they might. They might be like, oh, it's clearly this, but, yeah. Anything you would like to say to our dear listeners before we go off into the night? [01:46:47] Speaker B: No, nothing at all. I hope you're enjoying October and spooky season. Yeah. So stay good time. [01:46:56] Speaker A: Yeah. Just like the spookiest you've ever been in your life right now. [01:47:00] Speaker B: Summit the fuck up. Just. [01:47:08] Speaker A: Thinking how much worse this is for people who are listening to it and not watching it. Just that sound. [01:47:16] Speaker B: This is one of those things I'm just going to insert at the end because I don't think anyone is listening at this point. If you're listening at this point, comment, you jizz. [01:47:33] Speaker A: Okay.