Ep. 157: the JoAG Halloween campfire

[00:00:01] Speaker A: You. [00:00:04] Speaker B: Not for the first time in recent jo AGS, we're going to go back to the 18th century in France. But this time, rather than introducing you to a ravenous man with an insatiable appetite, I'm going to tell you about just such an animal. A creature known as the beast of yes Givodin in the south of France was, to put it bluntly, a terrible place to live, a wilderness cut off from most of civilization. Life was hard. The climate and terrain were unyielding. As author J. M. Smith put it, it had the reputation for being a remote, isolated backwater where the forces of nature had not been fully tamed, where the forests were indeed enchanted, which is one of like whenever you find a place like that, like Arizona or something, I don't understand why people stopped there. Just keep moving, go live somewhere else. But for whatever reason, people I often. [00:01:13] Speaker A: Think that in much the same way as I wonder why Japan builds nuclear power stations on fault lines. Why? [00:01:21] Speaker B: Sure. Yeah. Right. Just feels like there are decisions that can be made and some of them are bad. Right, yeah. But anyway, 1760s, France wasn't doing so well on the whole, either. A waning superpower who'd seen its empire shrink to almost nil in the wake of the Seven Years War, the country was in disarray. But what it did have was a press that was on the rise, selling papes not just by reporting the news, but by being a source of entertainment, especially since King Louis XV censored a lot of the actual news. [00:02:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:02] Speaker B: It was because of this press eager for subscriptions, that the country learned of a mysterious wave of deaths in a region they otherwise wouldn't have given any thought to. Our story begins with the death of 14 year old Jean Boule, who was mauled by something while tending her sheep in 1764 Something. This was only the beginning of a reign of terror upon the Jevuda, as more people, largely women and children, as well as a few solo men, were attacked and killed, and their deaths were brutal and gory, their corpses found with their throats ripped open and sometimes even with their heads completely severed from their bodies. [00:02:52] Speaker A: Stop. You there. Werewolves. [00:02:55] Speaker B: Well, perhaps at the time, a newspaper called Courier d'avignon was running stories they called Fey de ver, basically little chronicles of interesting happenings in small French villages. Smithsonian magazine, likens the de Ver to modern day true crime. And for editor, the spate of horrific death was the perfect subject. And his interest in reporting on the case led to the story spreading far and wide, not just in France, but throughout Europe and in the US as well. People everywhere were transfixed by the story of some unknown beast terrorizing the people of Jevardin. Because of the story's reach, jevardin was able to attract the help of politicians and aristocrats, including, eventually, the king himself. The first attempt at finding and killing the beast was organized by Captain Jean Baptiste Dumel and Etienne Lafont, who managed to amass a volunteer force of 30,000 people to aid them in their quest. Just unimaginable that's an army legitimately 30,000. [00:04:11] Speaker A: People for one werewolf. That's a lot, right? [00:04:14] Speaker B: It's a lot. Tamel figured they could come at the situation military style, undertaking various strategic methods, including leaving poison bait around and having soldiers dress as peasant women in hopes it would draw the beast. Which feels like a big misunderstanding of why it was coming after women. [00:04:35] Speaker A: The old little red riding hood gambit. [00:04:38] Speaker B: Yeah, like the beast understood the difference between female clothing and male clothing, and that was why it was coming to attack women. [00:04:47] Speaker A: Werewolves are smart. [00:04:50] Speaker B: Again, valid point. As time dragged on and they were still unable to catch it, a hefty reward was offered equivalent of an average working man's yearly salary. The hunt for the beast became symbolic to a country that had just had its ass handed to it in war, they really needed this win. According to Smith quote, there are many signs of wounded masculinity among the lead huntsmen. Duomel had a highly sensitive regard for his own honor and had some bad experiences in the war, and looked at this challenge of defeating the beast as a way to redeem himself. And tales of heroism in the face of this monstrous foe weren't limited to battle. Worn men, women and children alike became folk figures after surviving encounters with the beast. One such child was Jacques Portofet, who, along with several other children tending cattle in a meadow, became target for the beast. He organized the other kids to fend off the encroaching attacker with sticks, a feat of bravery that so moved King Louis. He paid them all a reward and funded the entirety of Jacques'education for leading the charge. [00:06:02] Speaker A: Excellent. So just for my clarity, this beast has been seen. [00:06:07] Speaker B: Seen, right. Yeah. That's one of the important elements of this, is that it isn't like some people are cryptid. Yeah. People are finding corpses and they have no idea what did it. People are seeing this. And I'll talk about what they saw, but yes, it is not unknown to them entirely. So that same August, a woman named Marie Jean Valet was attacked, but managed to fight off the beast, earning her the nickname the Maiden of Jevaudin, to whom there now stands a statue in the village of Ovair. Still, despite some brave souls being able to save their own throats from being detached from their necks, the hunt. You look like you have a question. [00:06:53] Speaker A: Might I pause you briefly? That village over. Would you spell that for me? [00:06:57] Speaker B: A-U-V-E-R-S. Fine. [00:07:00] Speaker A: Continue. I apologize. [00:07:02] Speaker B: Did you think maybe you'd been there before? [00:07:04] Speaker A: No. There is a French town called ORVO O-R-V-A-U-L-T gotcha, which happens to be the twin French town of Trudeaga. [00:07:15] Speaker B: Oh, well, that's kind of neat. [00:07:18] Speaker A: Or at least it was because brexit before brexit. [00:07:21] Speaker B: Well, that's true. I'm sure they've disowned Wales by now. It's not Wales's fault. Anyway, despite some brave souls being able to save their own throats from being detached from their necks, the hunters and soldiers were coming up empty handed, which could in part be attributed to the fact that they were largely outsiders. And as I said before, Jivodin was not an easy landscape. Chances are they didn't even know where to look. Nor were they prepared for the inhospitable environment that they faced. In February of 1765, a father son wolf hunting duo with over a thousand wolf kills to their names came to jevodant certain that they could accomplish what the tens of thousands of others could not and eliminate the beast which they assumed was a wolf. If you've ever seen Beauty and the Beast and wondered why the fuck there seemed to be wolves everywhere, it's because in 18th century France, there were wolves everywhere. Yeah, that's not like just like a weird story thing or whatever. That's like actively what it was like. [00:08:34] Speaker A: Indigenous wolves? [00:08:36] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess they're from there. I don't know that that's a thing, like now. But yeah, wolves are indigenous to France and they're all over the fucking place. Which actually is lupa. [00:08:48] Speaker A: Interesting rabbit, isn't it? [00:08:50] Speaker B: No, that's wolf fox, isn't it? [00:08:54] Speaker A: Lupa. Lupine. Lupa, yeah. No. Valpine is Valpine is volpine, I believe. [00:09:02] Speaker B: Yes. Lupine is wolf like. [00:09:04] Speaker A: Lupine. [00:09:08] Speaker B: Yes. So what was I going to say? Oh, yeah. It was just an interesting thought, though, because I always find it weird when there's don't this is going to sound so stupid. When land animals are on multiple land masses, I'm like how'd those get there, because you know how it's like if you go to Australia, New Zealand or whatever, it's like the only land animals are there were brought there on boats. Everything else is birds because nothing is native to an island. And so I'm like, wolves are here. Did people bring them here? Or is that like a Pangea situation? Like, once upon a time they could walk here across a land bridge? I don't know. Anyway, if anyone has an answer to that, feel free to tell me. I know it's a dumb question, but I don't know if that's quite you know, anyone who anyone who knows everything is Eileen's specialty. It is. [00:10:03] Speaker A: Well, God damn it, she would research it until it was her specialty. [00:10:05] Speaker B: Right, precisely. But anyway, while wolves aren't actually known for being particularly aggressive towards humans, unprovoked, the sheer numbers meant that there were tons of attacks on humans over the years. I can't remember what the time frame was, but I think it was about like a century or two that there was about 9000 wolf attacks on humans, which sounds like the opposite of what I'm saying. Wolves don't normally attack humans, but there were 9000 attacks. It's because usually that was rabid wolves. That's not just your regular guy walking around. They don't really want anything to do with us. It was only the rabid ones that would kill people. But nobody who'd been attacked in jevudin had contracted rabies, so they could pretty confidently rule that out. And as far as the locals and even Demele and LaFonte were concerned, this was not a wolf. It was described in various ways. For example, that it had a snout like a calf, a panther like tail, and long hair like a hyena red fur with a black stripe down the middle of its back. It was said to be larger than a wolf, described as as long as a leopard, the size of a calf or horse. Damel wrote, you will undoubtedly think like I do that this is a monster hybrid, the father of which is a lion. What its mother was remains to be seen. Fuck. [00:11:33] Speaker A: I cannot visualize this thing. I'm trying to put all of these bits together and I'm getting fucking nothing. [00:11:40] Speaker B: And I think the thing about that is those aren't all from one person. So I'm sure some people saw things in passing, saw something. [00:11:50] Speaker A: Maybe it was the predator. [00:11:52] Speaker B: Maybe it was the predator with the red fur and black stripe down its back. It's kind of like if you and I saw something at different times and in different circumstances, we might describe it differently. And if you tried to put those descriptions together, you'd be like, what the fuck is that? [00:12:14] Speaker A: And we know that memory is wholly unreliable. [00:12:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Especially when you're in like a traumatic. [00:12:20] Speaker A: Situation where you're kicking yourself, running away from some redheaded tiger dog. [00:12:26] Speaker B: Right, exactly. [00:12:28] Speaker A: That's long. And a cow also, somehow. [00:12:30] Speaker B: Right. And some folks reported abilities bordering on supernatural, saying that it stood upright, that its skin was bulletproof, that it had fire in its eyes, and even that it could come back from the dead. [00:12:49] Speaker A: This thing sounds like a Judas Priest album cover. [00:12:52] Speaker B: It really does. [00:12:53] Speaker A: That's what this thing sounds like. [00:12:55] Speaker B: But honestly, all of those things, I think, can be pretty easily explained. Maybe other than the fire eyes, that could be a reflection. But you have this thing that its skin seems bulletproof and that it could come back from the dead. It's probably something that is very strong that bullets didn't necessarily take out. And maybe it looked like it was dead, but then it just hopped back up again. [00:13:18] Speaker A: How would it verbalize does it well, that's funny news. [00:13:23] Speaker B: I was wondering about this because of and we'll talk about it, but the hyena theory hyenas are pretty loud, and I didn't see any report of what these sounded like. [00:13:38] Speaker A: I'm sure I've mentioned it before, but have I spoken to you specifically about sheep coughing? [00:13:43] Speaker B: This sounds vaguely familiar, but go on. [00:13:46] Speaker A: I mean, me and my buddies in school, we'd camp a lot. We'd chuck the fucking tents in our backpacks and we'd go to the Treble Mountains in Triga and we'd camp and we'd drink cider and make fires and cause havoc. And when trying to go to sleep, obviously sheep would fucking roam the area and a sheep coughing and a human coughing are the same noise. [00:14:08] Speaker B: They're going, that's right. That's horrifying. I really hate that. But even yeah, that you would report that about like, sheep, right? Like animals make sounds. For whatever reason, nothing that I read ever mentioned. Oh, this made some form of noise. [00:14:29] Speaker A: Okay. [00:14:30] Speaker B: Yeah, there's that that's one thing. At least it was quiet, which is really what you want in something that sneaks up on people and rips throats out. Anyways, the Duneival, the father and son hunting duo, were unable to lock the Beast down, perhaps lending credence to the idea that this was no ordinary wolf, but something strange and unknown. So the king sent his own personal bodyguard, Francois Antoine, to Jevodon to end it once and for all. And in September of 1765, antoine proudly sent the body of a large wolf back to Versailles, collecting a reward from the king, acolades and appreciation from the people of Jevodon and some massive bragging rights. And everybody lived happily ever after. Sorry, happily for two months. [00:15:27] Speaker A: That was not the creature, was it? We got a Jaws situation here. That was the wrong creature. [00:15:31] Speaker B: It was the wrong creature. Two months later, the attacks picked right back up again, throatless and decapitated people all over the place, some 35 of them. And now that the king was satisfied that they totally solved the problem, he. [00:15:48] Speaker A: Was completely, uninterested super fucking into this. [00:15:53] Speaker B: I figured you'd be into a throat. [00:15:54] Speaker A: Ripping Beast, but it's what is the Beast? I'm super into this one. [00:16:02] Speaker B: So, yeah, the king was not interested in aiding the people. Now, while they were still out there in their forest hellhole, like, help, we're being eaten. So finally, the locals did what they probably should have done in the first place if it hadn't been for all the press coverage that drew all the people to the town. And they took matters into their own hands. In June of 1767, local noblemen the Marquis Dapche organized one more hunt, this time with locals who knew the terrain. And on June 19, Jean Chastel felled a wolf with one bullet. When opened up for an autopsy, human remains were found inside. It seemed at long last the Beast of Jevodame was slain. All told, it had taken around 100 victims. The killings stopped, but theories abounded because on autopsy, it was apparently confirmed that this wolf had non wolf attributes. So what the fuck was it? Theories ranged from the downright outlandish, like werewolf or some prehistoric creature that somehow survived extinction to the actually pretty plausible. For example, apparently rich folks in the 18th century in France were super into keeping exotic animals. So it was posited that the creature might have been an escaped lion or hyena at the time, your average French villager would have no real sense of what either of those things looked like. They might have seen a drawing of a lion, but if you've seen old drawings of lions, it took some liberty. [00:17:52] Speaker A: Heraldic pictures of cats. [00:17:54] Speaker B: Right. [00:17:55] Speaker A: Cat. [00:17:56] Speaker B: Exactly. The pictures were pretty stylized that people would have seen, so they wouldn't have recognized that if they saw it in real life. [00:18:04] Speaker A: Mind, I've seen hyenas at Zoos, on TV and whatever, but if a hyena were to just amble past me, I would still be like, the fuck is that thing? [00:18:15] Speaker B: Yeah, those are bizarre animals, they really are. Their proportions are all wrong and the sound they make is insane. They're a weird animal. So yeah, that's right. In 2023, do the noise. [00:18:29] Speaker A: Having seen, everyone wants to hear you do the noise. [00:18:32] Speaker B: I don't know how to do a hyena noise. [00:18:34] Speaker A: Yeah, have a go. [00:18:38] Speaker B: If I had before this YouTubed, a hyena noise, I would try that for you off the top of my head. [00:18:45] Speaker A: The fun is in not knowing and seeing what you come up with. [00:18:51] Speaker B: The noise that came to mind to do was like a dolphin. I was like, that's the wrong sound. That's not how hyenas sound. So I'm sorry I can't provide an auditory bit for you. The descriptions did seem very similar to a hyena. While with their weird ass legs, a hyena probably couldn't stand up like a human. They do kind of have that haunchy look that could perhaps look like they're standing up. If you again have no idea that their legs are just different lengths by. [00:19:27] Speaker A: No stretch would you call one cow like of face, though? [00:19:30] Speaker B: No, not so much. But they do have a stripy mohawk down their back, as was advertised. [00:19:37] Speaker A: Do they fucking do? [00:19:38] Speaker B: Yeah. But so too do some juvenile lions. As it turns out, the range of about 50 sq mi in which the beast roamed also matches up with the area generally covered by a lion. The beast was said to stalk its prey and grab it by the throat, and its hunting times are evenings and mornings. And lions are also absolutely down to murder the shit out of humans, unlike your typical wolf or hyena, which will leave us alone. [00:20:07] Speaker A: I'm looking at some pictures of hyenas now and it's a front runner, I'd say, right? [00:20:13] Speaker B: Yeah. It's like when you think of the physical description, very much does kind of sound like what people were talking about, although I don't think they're as big as people are talking about here, so it's a toss up there. But some people thought it was literally a human in a wolf suit, while others thought maybe a human had trained some sort of animal to murder for them. Some thought it was wearing some form of armor, like it was like an army dog. Army. [00:20:44] Speaker A: Like a war hyena? [00:20:45] Speaker B: Yeah, war hyena. Which would explain why it could take gunshots and just walk them off, which is weirdly. [00:20:52] Speaker A: The next album from Judas Priest. [00:20:58] Speaker B: It all keeps coming back. But most scholars point to France's huge wolf problem and assume the most likely culprit is the danger that was ever present. The wolves. That said, though, because we don't have any photos or DNA or apparently even drawings, all we have are the words. [00:21:18] Speaker A: Primary history of any kind, primary evidence. [00:21:21] Speaker B: Well, we have words, we have primary sources. In that sense, like the words that people use to describe this are passed down. Just nothing visual at all. Like we said, these are deeply traumatized folks experiencing something super scary and then trying to describe it. And of course, it's two and a half centuries ago, so these other theories, barring some of the crazier ones, are still plausible. And historians do acknowledge that they're not. Like, it's absolutely a wolf. It's got to be a wolf. That's definitely a wolf. It's like, we think that's the most likely thing, but yeah, sure, it could be somebody's pet lion that got out. We have no idea. [00:22:02] Speaker A: Which is what science does. Which is why science is great. [00:22:06] Speaker B: Exactly. But we will simply never know the true identity of the beast of Jebona. [00:22:13] Speaker A: Oh, God. That was satisfying. [00:22:17] Speaker B: You're the only person who is satisfied by a non ending to something. I know we can tell you this story and you're going to love it. Cold fucking case. Yes. [00:22:28] Speaker A: Every now and again you'll tell a story of, like a haunted lake or some other haunted lake, and you won't wrap it up neatly, or you will wrap it up neatly, and I'll be like, okay, but this one, there was some fucking mad ass beast in France 400 OD years ago and it wreaked havoc. And we can guess, but we don't know what it was. Because, you see, if we don't know what it was, we don't know if it'll come back. Let me quote directly from my notes, if I may. [00:23:04] Speaker B: Yes, please do. [00:23:06] Speaker A: Fucking look at these nerds. Oh, miselsen. [00:23:09] Speaker B: I don't think anyone has ever said miselsen in such a horny way before. [00:23:13] Speaker A: The way I whispered the word sex cannibal received. [00:23:16] Speaker B: Worst comes to worst, Mark, I'm willing to guillotine you for science. [00:23:20] Speaker A: Thank you. That's really, really sweet. It's cold outside, but my pancreas is talking to me. I'm going to leg it. [00:23:26] Speaker B: You know how I feel about that, Mark? [00:23:28] Speaker A: I think you feel great about it. What an auspicious and fortuitous night on which we find ourselves recording this week's jack of all graves corrigan. And my dear, dear friends, listeners, what a portentious, what a heavily loaded night of significance and otherworldliness and strangeness as the veil thins. Yeah, the veil betwixt worlds thins that world that separates us just through a gossamer thin silken layer of substance between the living and the dead. Jesus Christ. Yeah. Tis the weekend before Halloween. Yes. [00:24:20] Speaker B: Beautiful time. [00:24:22] Speaker A: Yes. Tis the weekend where shops are running out of wigs. It's the weekend where the horror grease paint and costumes are becoming thin on the shelves. But it's also the time of the year where you just never know, you might get some fucked up French fucking hyena cow fucking tiger werewolf hybrid screeching at your door. Don't answer the door because it might be le beast from La France of the past. [00:25:09] Speaker B: I really quite liked. Nobody at home could see it, but, you know, acting out the scratching, doing the scratching. I was embodying it rhythmically, but it was nice. It was kind of a nice, if you like, visual ASMR I was like, OOH, it's kind of tingly to watch. It's really enjoyable. [00:25:22] Speaker A: Corrigan lest ye forget, I am a dramatist. Right? [00:25:28] Speaker B: You are definitely. [00:25:32] Speaker A: Know, let's keep that up front and center. When you're recording with me and when you're listening to you're trained, I embody the shit I say. Even if I weren't trained, though, I'd be doing this shit anyway. I communicate not just verbally, but physically. [00:25:47] Speaker B: Yes, everyone is missing out on a lot of your communication by listening to this podcast. It's true. [00:25:53] Speaker A: Me tell you something, I've got a concept. How's about this? Talking about performance art a couple of weeks ago, talking about a couple of art performance art a few weeks back. I think there's an episode in our future building up where we say nothing. No, think on it. We communicate through signals and maybe we hold up bits of paper to one another and physical expressions and that bit where the balloons come up around me, but we say nothing. Nesbat UN podcast. [00:26:33] Speaker B: It's next level right there. [00:26:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Think on all of you other fuckers, all you other millions of podcasts. None of you are planning fucking extreme performance art podcasts where you don't say anything for an hour and a half. We got to do this, please. [00:26:50] Speaker B: Oh my God. [00:26:54] Speaker A: It's elevating the format, right? Is that what questioning the format? It is scrutinizing the format, stripping it down to its very fucking fundamental atoms and seeing do you really need sound for a podcast? Do you? You think you do, but what if you didn't? What happens then? [00:27:19] Speaker B: Interesting. Yeah. What do you interpret without yes. [00:27:26] Speaker A: What's the point? It's about what you want it to be. It's like when the Spice Girls sang I really, really want to ZIGG a zig. Ah. What did that mean? It was entirely down to the listener. So I'm not saying next week, I'm not saying the week after. I'm not saying it'll ever happen, but. [00:27:46] Speaker B: I in fact, you might say it'll never happen. [00:27:56] Speaker A: Coronavirus. I would love to explore the concept of a podcast without sound. Yeah. Fucking stick that in your fucking bowl of fucking a plum suspended in perfume in a men's hat. You'll go, oh, no. That's the kind of shit that we need to be doing. [00:28:17] Speaker B: Oh, man. This podcast is getting more avant garde than I had really given it credit for. Yeah. [00:28:23] Speaker A: But I think it's time, I think, now that we've built up enough goodwill amongst our millions and millions of Jo AG fans sure. I think we've earned after three years of fucking grinding this out, right, I think we've earned the trust to go a little bit. I think we've earned the right to try some shit. [00:28:54] Speaker B: Okay, well, we'll think on that. We'll see where it goes. [00:29:00] Speaker A: You say we'll think on that, but your tone implies you've already done all the thinking on that you're going to do. [00:29:06] Speaker B: Listen, I honor your ideas, and I take them in the spirit they are intended and I do not simply dismiss them outright. So we shall think on it. [00:29:21] Speaker A: Okay, well, look, which is a roundabout way you're saying. Welcome, friends, to another episode of Jack of All Graves. We're delighted that you've chosen to join us after a fallow week. [00:29:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:34] Speaker A: Yes, after a fallow week, due to my third go round with my good friend, the novel Coronavirus. And this one this one was a motherfucker, I don't mind telling you. [00:29:45] Speaker B: Do you think this was your worst COVID? Was this worse than the first one? [00:29:51] Speaker A: Well, the first one caused me not only to miss a family holiday, but to miss seeing the mighty ghost. Right. [00:29:57] Speaker B: The timing was poor on that first. [00:30:00] Speaker A: The timing was dog rough. But I can honestly say this time I would have done the same. I would have missed all social commitments. The same. Yes. If anyone gives a shit. The symptoms of this particular go round, and one of them I experienced for the first time, and it was so strange. The heavy limbs. Yes. The persistent headache. Yes. The hacking cough. Yes. The sneezing. [00:30:23] Speaker B: Yes. [00:30:23] Speaker A: The headache. Yes. But no sense of smell. [00:30:29] Speaker B: I hate that so much. [00:30:30] Speaker A: No sense of smell. I'm a coffee fiend. I fucking love a coffee. And I realized one goddamn morning, have I put any coffee in this, or is this just smelling it? Oh, I see. I could smell nothing. [00:30:45] Speaker B: That's like, oh, man, oh, man, I don't like that. [00:30:49] Speaker A: Nothing. And it then occurred to me that my eyes aren't worth shit. I have the shittiest eyes around, right? Shit eyes. No sense of smell. During this boat with the novel Coronavirus, I was down essentially to about, like, three and a quarter senses. [00:31:09] Speaker B: Yeah. That's not great. You would be useless in an apocalypse in that situation. [00:31:15] Speaker A: Well, wrong, because I would be great. I'll say this again, I'll say this to the listeners. Seek me out. If it all goes to shit, for whatever reason, be it climate or the undead or whatever, if there is an apocalyptic situation, seek me out, because I'm going to lead you. I'm going to lead you to the promised land. [00:31:37] Speaker B: Lose your fucking glasses. [00:31:39] Speaker A: As long as I've got an ample supply of contact lenses and spectacles and like some nice shoes and new clothes, right? [00:31:47] Speaker B: I love that. The easiest way to get you riled up, and this is not the first time this has happened in the past 24 hours, is to simply say that you would be bested by a circumstance. Yesterday I said that you would be bested by a giant squid and deeply wounded. [00:32:02] Speaker A: You absolutely not. Look oh, man. Have I got to go through this again? I'm not saying that I could defeat all animals, right? I'm not, am I? No, I'm not. There are animals that could best me. For example, if there's a bear on my case for fucking get it, I'm done. Shark, I'm done. Forget it. Most land animals, though. [00:32:35] Speaker B: What was it when we had Eileen on talking about the subject of people and animals and whatnot was it tigers that no one survives? [00:32:46] Speaker A: Yeah, there's something like that. That's one of them. [00:32:49] Speaker B: You just simply die. [00:32:51] Speaker A: Yeah, you just simply die. But what brought this to mind was fucking hell. The TikTok algorithm. I don't know what it thinks I am. I don't know what profile of me it's built, but it is showing me the it's actually showing me stuff that I wasn't expected to enjoy, but I'm really enjoying. So it's doing something right. Kind of scary for some reason. [00:33:11] Speaker B: Knows you better than you know yourself. [00:33:13] Speaker A: Yeah, no one knows me better than I know myself. I'll tell you what. Now I know. I know. [00:33:17] Speaker B: Look at this. Once again, one mild challenge issued. Hold on. Crap. This is going to be my new hobby. Just like, riling you up with a. [00:33:35] Speaker A: Simple phrase, just a small realistic assault on basic skills. But no. TikTok has been showing me a lot of Komodo dragons of late. Right? [00:33:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:50] Speaker A: You've seen a Komodo dragon? Yes, of course. [00:33:53] Speaker B: I watch a lot of nature shows. [00:33:55] Speaker A: Fucking units of boys, right? Absolutely huge. Yeah. Dinosaur prehistoric. They look like a Harry Housing fucking dinosaur. Yeah. Thick boys. Thick boys. Flapping their little tongue out. Very kind of gloopy, slivery kind of mouths and deeply venomous, but not through traditional kind of means of venom. They infect you to death. They bite you. And they're so fucking nasty that the bite will just go into sepsis and you're fucked. Right? [00:34:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:38] Speaker A: But here's the thing. [00:34:40] Speaker B: Oh, boy. Okay. Yeah. [00:34:43] Speaker A: How are you going to dragon? They have a very stupid walk. Have you noticed that? [00:34:51] Speaker B: Sure. Yeah. [00:34:52] Speaker A: They walk like they waddle with their fucking stupid splayed out walk. I don't think they're particularly fast. [00:35:01] Speaker B: I think they are kind of fast. [00:35:03] Speaker A: Well, 20 20 think they top out. [00:35:07] Speaker B: At okay, what do you top out at? [00:35:10] Speaker A: No, that's not the point. [00:35:14] Speaker B: Don't challenge me. [00:35:21] Speaker A: What about you? What do you talk about? [00:35:23] Speaker B: That I don't think that I could survive a Komodo dragon? [00:35:27] Speaker A: Well, I believe I could. And you see, the thing that I would do while they're busy doing their stupid Wadly fucking. Drama walk. [00:35:36] Speaker B: Sure. [00:35:36] Speaker A: I would approach them from behind. [00:35:40] Speaker B: Okay. [00:35:42] Speaker A: Avoid their fucking skanky poison mouth. Put them in a headlock. Right. Sleep a hold. [00:35:51] Speaker B: Sure. [00:35:53] Speaker A: Maybe, like, do one of those crocodile death rolls. So you got them on their back and just choke them out. Choke them out. [00:36:00] Speaker B: Okay. [00:36:00] Speaker A: Just keep applying pressure. [00:36:02] Speaker B: What you're talking about is an unprovoked assault on a komodo dragon. The komodo dragon hasn't attacked you. You're coming up, and you're attacking a komodo dragon. [00:36:15] Speaker A: Sheep shotting a komodo dragon. [00:36:17] Speaker B: Yeah, right. She's sucker punching a komodo dragon. [00:36:20] Speaker A: But even if all right, it's mano a komodo, right? It's completely. [00:36:30] Speaker B: Fucking terrible. Eye holes. And he's like, I'm about to venom you. What do you do? [00:36:35] Speaker A: Let's say we've got a large ring of people baying. Maybe like, there's a guy taking a book, passing money around, doing that thing with his hands. Two for four, two one ODS two and odds and taking a book on who gets it. And it starts, and we circle one another. Yeah. And we're getting the measure of one another. Yeah, exactly. And he's looking into my soul, and I'm looking into his, and he's flicking his tongue out. He's tasting the air. He's seeing if he can taste my fear. And that's when fucking boom, I strike. I run around the back of him, and then I run like fuck around the back of him. I dive on his back. I get him in the headlock. I get him in the sleeper hold. Crocodile roll. He's on his back. I apply pressure. He's dead. [00:37:29] Speaker B: I adore you, Mark Lewis. [00:37:34] Speaker A: Listen, I'm not being hubristic about this. There are animals I could take, and there are animals I could not. The komodo dragon I would also the komodo dragon is on the upper limit of animals that I could take. [00:37:50] Speaker B: Yeah, you're really pushing it on that one. I mean, those guys are me. I'm just wondering, like, trying to choke out a komodo dragon. I don't even know how far in their little komodo tracheas are or whatever. Where's that windpipe at? What do you have to apply to crush that thing? [00:38:08] Speaker A: I'd look into this ahead of the time. Study him. I'd watch the tapes. I'd watch tapes of komodo dragons. I'd work on my kind of lower arm strength because that's where it would be at. [00:38:23] Speaker B: The sailor man arms. [00:38:25] Speaker A: Exactly. I'm strong to the finish because I eat my spinach. [00:38:29] Speaker B: Precisely. [00:38:31] Speaker A: And I would emerge the victor. And then I would have him skinned. I would feed from him because the hunter's code you don't kill what you don't intend to eat. [00:38:43] Speaker B: Fair. [00:38:44] Speaker A: And I would make a suit of his skin. [00:38:49] Speaker B: Wow. A lot. [00:38:52] Speaker A: How you like that? [00:38:53] Speaker B: Okay. [00:38:54] Speaker A: That's how you like? [00:38:58] Speaker B: Let us know. Dear listeners, do you think that this is a good plan? Will Mark best the komodo dragon? Let us know on the socials jack of all graves. [00:39:08] Speaker A: You never have my face. Jesus. If you could just have my once. [00:39:12] Speaker B: I simply asked the listeners completely neutral on the outcome of this particular matchup. [00:39:24] Speaker A: Would it kill you to say yes, Mark? I think you could take a Komodo dragon. Say that now. [00:39:29] Speaker B: Mark, listen. We have a friendship based on mutual trust and respect. And because of my respect for you, I simply cannot lie to you and tell you that I think that you could. Komodo dragon. [00:39:43] Speaker A: You can't even give me that, can you? [00:39:45] Speaker B: I simply can't. I'm sorry. But I would cheer for you. If I were in that outer circle, I would definitely be on your side. I'd be rooting for you. [00:39:54] Speaker A: That's good. [00:39:54] Speaker B: Not the Komodo dragon. [00:39:55] Speaker A: That's good. [00:39:56] Speaker B: So let that be enough. [00:40:00] Speaker A: The big worry would be then is that after having bested the Komodo dragon, I'd be given them, like, to rest and fed grapes by maidens. You know what I mean? [00:40:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:11] Speaker A: The grapes, the finest wines and the fan, the silken beds and the kind of the wafting. And then the next day, they'd put me up against an animal that I just could not fuck with. Then it would be a bear, wouldn't it? [00:40:23] Speaker B: Or the know. I feel like depending on the bear. [00:40:30] Speaker A: Or Paddington, I could kick his ass. [00:40:32] Speaker B: Like a nice know. [00:40:35] Speaker A: Oh, hello, Mr. Lewis. [00:40:37] Speaker B: You might get lucky. [00:40:39] Speaker A: Yes. [00:40:41] Speaker B: Anyways, so welcome to Jack of all grave. Mark had COVID and wants to fight a Komodo dragon. And I'm going to post this in the morning. So on Sunday morning, I should say, and thus, if you're listening to this, that means this afternoon evening, we have a watch along where we will be watching Death Becomes Her. What made you choose this? I mean, great movie, but what made you choose Death Becomes Her? [00:41:10] Speaker A: Am I right in thinking it's a Robert Zemeckis joint? Is that correct? I'm not sure we just bring that. [00:41:21] Speaker B: The other day realized that our watch along was getting close and just insisted Mark pick a movie, and this is what he came up with. And so while you're determining who directed Death Becomes Her, we figured it'd be a fun day. You can watch along with us and then have a quick snack, know a nice dinner break or whatever, and then join Dead and Lovely for their ice cream Sunday. So just like a pre Halloween day. [00:41:48] Speaker A: Of films is indeed a Robert Zemeckis movie. Did you know? [00:41:53] Speaker B: There you go. I did not realize that. I mean, I'm sure last time I watched it, I saw it at the beginning in the credits, but I did not remember that. [00:42:01] Speaker A: I chose Death Becomes Her because it's a movie I haven't seen in lord only knows how long. But it left me with vibes of just real fun darkness in that kind of Burton esque kind of vein. It deals with those fucking themes of the downsides of immortality that everybody wants to live forever. Not after watching this fucking exactly. Exactly. It's spooky season. You've got some fun gore in there. You've got some really fun practical effects, some fun CG effects. You got Bruce Willis before he became Bruce Willis. [00:42:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I do love an early Bruce Willis. [00:42:47] Speaker A: I do love an early Willis. It's look, dementia or not, his career just seemed to become cynical. [00:43:01] Speaker B: Kind of just yeah, just churning out stuff, being the same guy. [00:43:08] Speaker A: Same guy. Whether he's paying alimony or whether he's fucking funding medical bills or what. And I think it was maybe after Pulp Fiction that everything he did seemed. [00:43:18] Speaker B: To lose that long ago. [00:43:20] Speaker A: I think it was. Unless somebody wants to correct me. I mean, what bangers has he done after Pulp Fiction? [00:43:25] Speaker B: Well, that's a good I mean, there's Diehards that I like that are post Pulp Fiction, but obviously he's just doing Diehard. Oh, Red. [00:43:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Red was he's not that's hardly a Bruce Willis film. [00:43:42] Speaker B: It's Carl Urban film. [00:43:45] Speaker A: There you go. Yes. [00:43:48] Speaker B: Yeah. That's a very good point. I feel like even he's in stuff like Red that I really like. But he's just being that's a that's a good point. I can't, off the top of my head, point to something post Pulp Fiction where he is not simply playing basically the same role. [00:44:07] Speaker A: Yeah. He did nothing with the career renaissance that Quentin offered him. [00:44:12] Speaker B: Right, yeah. That's interesting. [00:44:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:16] Speaker B: But anyway, yeah, death becomes a lot of fun. So come and watch it. [00:44:20] Speaker A: We're going back to a simpler time. When Bruce was Bruce when Glenn Close was Glenn Close. Goldie horn was goldie horn. And frankly, I don't give a fuck how old she is. Goalie. Horn is beautiful. [00:44:31] Speaker B: Is it Glenn Close? [00:44:32] Speaker A: Meryl Streep. [00:44:34] Speaker B: Okay. [00:44:35] Speaker A: Is it Meryl Streep or Glenn Close? I think it's get those two mixed. [00:44:39] Speaker B: Up because someone else did the same thing last week, and so thus it threw me off that you just said Glenn Close, too, so I'm like it's Meryl, though, right? [00:44:47] Speaker A: Meryl Streep. Yeah, Meryl Streep. And feel free to look this up using my Facebook. Meryl Streep is a dead fucking ringer for my wife about 20 years ago. [00:44:59] Speaker B: Really? Wait, so Meryl Streep looks like your wife 20 years ago, or your wife looks like Meryl Streep 20 years ago? [00:45:11] Speaker A: Yeah, I got that wrong. Young Meryl Streep. Looks like my wife. [00:45:15] Speaker B: Got it. Okay, good to know. [00:45:21] Speaker A: Anyway, that is this Sunday, and thanks to the arcane practice that we still indulge in in the UK of fucking around with our clocks twice a year, that is at 09:00 UK time, 05:00 Eastern time. Yes, we've had a bunch of new listeners lately. [00:45:42] Speaker B: Pacific. [00:45:43] Speaker A: We love each of you. If you're new, if you haven't been around before, if you want to make friends, enjoy friends, spend time with friends, watching movies with friends, drinking Tins with friends, typing fucking funny shit about a movie with friends, I can't think of a better way of doing all of those things at you're here. [00:45:59] Speaker B: And like I said, great way to pregame Halloween. Just hang out, watch Spooky movie, then watch another Spooky movie with Den. Lovely. It's just going to be like a great day. [00:46:09] Speaker A: What are they watching again? [00:46:12] Speaker B: Usually Steve doesn't announce it until the day of, so we'll find out. But hopefully something perfect for the season as well. Really looking forward to it. [00:46:20] Speaker A: Big up, Hollywood, Steve. Big up, Anna. And big up the dead. And lovely crew indeed. [00:46:27] Speaker B: You forgot Ben, but yes, absolutely. [00:46:30] Speaker A: Ben also. [00:46:32] Speaker B: Ben also. Good old Uncle Ben. But we also have new stuff up on the Ko fi. There's a new Joag radio for this week. In the archive, we have that up. We have the Spider Man. Let's play that we did earlier in the week. And then coming up this week on Monday we'll have our House of Usher snack for the month in which we're going to rave about that television show and deep dive into. It will, of course, start with no spoilers so that you'll be able to listen to that and enjoy it. And then we'll dive in and talk about everything. It's going to be a lot of fun as well. [00:47:08] Speaker A: Am I allowed to just chat about Spiderman a little bit? [00:47:12] Speaker B: Briefly? [00:47:14] Speaker A: Super briefly. Two words, peak gaming. Right. I have never in all my days seen a game that looks this good. [00:47:28] Speaker B: It does look amazing. [00:47:29] Speaker A: Something I took great pleasure in was playing Spidey while Cory shared my screen over there in Montclair, New Jersey, and I enjoyed Corey kind of telling me about the little bits of New York that I was in. Know she'd been there and she'd seen that and it was a real thrill. I'm of the opinion I'm going to try this one day. I think you could take a screen grab of a high kind of view of the New York from that game, chuck a filter on it and convince someone it's a photo. [00:48:00] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think that's 100% true. It's truly incredible to look at. I mean, sometimes, obviously, there's some things you're like, yeah, it's a video game or whatever, but there are some views in it, the water, things like that, that you could tell me that was an actual video. And I'd be like, yeah, sure. [00:48:18] Speaker A: Yeah. It isn't just the visuals. The story beats are beautiful. If you're in any way a fan of Spiderman in any way, shape or form, you will fucking play the fuck out of this game. So please do it's amazing. [00:48:30] Speaker B: Yeah, it was a delight to watch along with yes. And like I said, if you want to see what it looks like, go on our Kofi and you can check that out, Kofi.com Jackovallgraves, and just watch. Although, actually, the entire time on that, we are playing one section that was very difficult for you to beat. And at one point we got stuck in a glitch for, like, ten minutes and kept on trying to beat it when it turned out it simply could not be beaten because it was a glitch. [00:49:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:06] Speaker B: Anyways, shall we talk about what we watched? [00:49:09] Speaker A: Yes, we can certainly talk about what we watched. [00:49:13] Speaker B: Yes. [00:49:14] Speaker A: And we'll try to more try to. [00:49:16] Speaker B: Scan through, not take a huge amount of time because, again, it's spooky season. We've been watching tons of you know, we'll try to keep it efficient. [00:49:25] Speaker A: I'm going to start really quick with it's. Non really joag adjacent, but it has meaning for me a movie called The Road Dog, which is if I were a hack, which I'm not, I would say it's. What if the know Aronofsky's wrestler with Mickey Rourke What if that was about stand up comedy? That's. What? The road dog. [00:49:54] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:49:56] Speaker A: Doug doug Stanhope plays an alcoholic on the fucking last stretch of his career, stand up, who by chance, one night after a gig, meets his son, who he's literally never seen since he was a kid. His son is wanting to get into comedy, and the two of them go on a road trip and they pick up gigs and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now, I'm a very big supporter of Doug Stanhope. Right. He isn't the greatest of people. He doesn't keep the greatest of company. But God damn, some of his specials just fucking go right for the jugular and right for the heart. Right? I find him a fucking funny as fuck comedian. I find him brilliant. His down at heel, his kind of his suffering health, his self confessed alcoholism, all part of the act. And you just buy into him as a stand up in his own right. I will love stand hope to my dying day. And every single one of those one and a half stars I gave that film are for him. Because the rest of it is fucking dog egg, right? It's a TV movie. The soundtrack is dreadful. The dialogue is always just the dialogue. Fucking hell. But it has a nice bittersweet ending. And Stan hope is great, but the rest of the film, frankly, is dick. So one and a half stars for the road dog. And that's that. Out the way. [00:51:40] Speaker B: All right, I'm going to say that's a do not recommend. [00:51:44] Speaker A: No. [00:51:47] Speaker B: Now, I know the other thing that you watched without me this week. I'm not letting you go off on this again. [00:52:01] Speaker A: Oh, you're not letting me, are you? [00:52:04] Speaker B: No, we've been through it enough. We had, like, a whole episode where you and Al got to talk about how much you love hereditary. You're not letting you have to censoring me. You have to rein it in. [00:52:22] Speaker A: You got to rein it in. Censoring me mark fucking Lewis. [00:52:30] Speaker B: Oh, no. I am your komodo dragon. Now. [00:52:34] Speaker A: Face me, then tops off, mate. I'll fucking put you in the fucking chokehold. All right? I'll tracy it. I'll give you the fucking the short version of Hereditary, right? This is to be the fourth time I've seen it, if not fifth. It still has the power, to mesmerize, disgust and amaze. But something clicked this time, right? Something really clicked this time with Hereditary. And it's why it sits so comfortably next to Rosemary's Baby and the Exorcist and the omen and up to a point, Texas, right? [00:53:11] Speaker B: Okay. [00:53:12] Speaker A: Hereditary, even if you push aside the dazzlingly, innovative cinematography and it is he does some shit in that film which it fits in perfectly. Those crashes from night today, scenes blending into one another, beautiful camera shots that's so fucking edible you could eat this film. But it understands that horror comes in through the cracks, right? Whether those cracks are grief or whether those cracks are mental illness or whether they are depression. It spends a good third of the film painting a portrait of this family on the edge and at risk of falling apart anyway. So that when the tragedy happens and the grief causes the fucking rift. That's what gives the strange license to sneak in there and burst those cracks wide open. That's why Hereditary is such a powerful film, because it understands, like so many other films or not enough films understand that you can't just go in with the weird from fucking square one, like the fucking nun or whatever. You've got to build a foundation first, find where the crack is, and then you've got the license to go wherever the fuck you want. And hereditary Fucking nails it. It is if they were a 6th star, it would get that from me. I find it to be a perfect film. How was that? [00:55:03] Speaker B: Well, I obviously don't agree with you, but that is a very yeah, valid point. I mean, I like I i agree with your thesis about this getting in the cracks thing. Absolutely. I think that's absolutely true. [00:55:18] Speaker A: It rewards repeated viewings. It rewards repeated viewings because the first time you see it, you get the film at face value. But then the second time and the third time, you notice so much more. All of the fucking clues are there, all the fucking stories. The entire thing is there within the first 1520 minutes. If you're you, you know what I mean? You could have probably fucking solved that film within the first 20 minutes. But when you go back and you see the fucking breadcrumbs throughout the whole thing, it is just sublime. And I love it. And I'm going to stop carrying on talking about it because I can see your eyes glazing over. [00:55:58] Speaker B: No, I appreciate that you love it just like that. You have that passion for it is delightful. I hate it. But that doesn't matter. I enjoy that you have this experience with it. My eyes are not glazed at all. Okay. [00:56:15] Speaker A: Thanks, Corrigan. [00:56:19] Speaker B: Anyways. All right, I'm going to talk about a few of the things that I watched, and then we'll get into what we watched together because we also have because it's been two weeks, we have a bunch of things to get through as well. Yeah, I rewatched Monster Club, which I just find absolutely delightful. If you've never seen Monster Club, it's from, like, 1981, I believe, starring Monster Club. [00:56:42] Speaker A: Not Monster Squad Monster Club. [00:56:44] Speaker B: Not Monster Squad Monster Club. Very different movie. It's an anthology movie in which basically you come into this movie meeting Vincent Price as he sucks the blood from another old man, who, it turns out, is his favorite horror author and afterwards a sort of a, hey, thanks for the meal. He takes the author to the Monster Club and sort of shows him how monsters live. And you have these little anthology segments that he sort of teaches him about different kinds of monsters through these anthology segments. And in well, some of them are completely made up, which is part of the fun of it. So it's like there's a whole segment in which he's basically explaining, like, here's what happened. If you mate this monster with this monster and then mate them with this monster and all that, and you get this, and this is why that's horrible. And you get, like, a segment on that, and they're all, like, kind of tongue in cheek. You've got one that has Donald Pleasance as a vampire hunter whose endeavor to kill a vampire goes horribly awry. Like, all kinds of fun segments, but in between they're in a club. So you get these basically monster punk bands. And the music is really fun and really weird. There's an entire song about a stripper which ends with, like, an animated stripper pulling off not just her clothes, but her skin and dancing, like, her bones. And everyone's very turned on by her bones. It's just like it's super weird and fun. [00:58:23] Speaker A: A little twitch thinking about it myself, if you don't mind. [00:58:32] Speaker B: It's such a fun movie, and I highly recommend Monster Club. It used to be on Shutter, but now it's, like, on the free stuff, like tubi and whatnot. So, yeah, you can get it on that. And it's just a really good time. I rewatched Scary stories to tell in the dark, which I just enjoy because I think they nailed the visually, they nailed the books. [00:58:57] Speaker A: Oh, they did? Great. [00:58:59] Speaker B: Yeah. And I grew up on those and thought they were terrifying. And so every time one of the monsters and creatures and things like that comes to life in that movie, it's like, I'm like, nine years old again. I'm just like, this is the scariest thing I've ever seen in my life. [00:59:15] Speaker A: The other best example I can think of that happening was Where the Wild Things Are. That Maurice sendak book. [00:59:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:59:24] Speaker A: I never actually saw the movie right off the page. It's really good. It's, like, really good. [00:59:29] Speaker B: Really? I know it got kind of mixed reviews, so I just kind of never really got around to it, I think. [00:59:36] Speaker A: Is it Spike Jones? [00:59:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's Spike Jones. [00:59:40] Speaker A: I dug it in a big way, but the creatures were lifted right off the page. [00:59:44] Speaker B: I love that because yeah, I mean, who doesn't have a strong Where the Wild Things Are memory from childhood as well. Also, the other Maurice Sendak book that I was obsessed with when I was a kid was The Night Kitchen. Did you ever read that one? [00:59:59] Speaker A: No. [01:00:00] Speaker B: Highly recommend that one as, you know, just like that signature art style and the way those stories are told and everything. Like, oh, beautiful. But yeah, scary stories to tell in the dark was a fun, scary ride that I enjoyed. I watched Twilight Zone, the movie, which also is just know it's the Twilight Zone, but a movie. [01:00:25] Speaker A: I rather thought that you would askew that movie, knowing what we know about. [01:00:30] Speaker B: That movie because of John Landis. Well, for my I get to keep things that from before I knew that someone was awful. And he's one segment out of one that also has several other great directors. As you know, my attitude towards Twilight Zone is it's a fun movie and also fuck John Landis and it is always wild to me. [01:00:59] Speaker A: Who are the others again? Robert Zemeckis. [01:01:01] Speaker B: Again, I want to say, I think you might be right off the top of my head, I can't think of who they are. Gosh, and I totally know who they are, but my brain is just short circuiting. But they're great and it's a lot of fun. I especially like the one that's basically like a distorted Looney Tunes segment with the kid who can make these things come to life and everything and has terrified his family into doing everything that he wants. Love that segment so much. But yeah, it is wild though, that they kept the John Landis segment in there and on top of the fact that people died making that segment. It's also kind of a rough watch because what's his face who died? Vic Morrow plays such like an atrocious character and he's like throwing out N words and all these racial slurs and stuff like that and you're just like, Fucking Christ. Now if you made that kind of racist character, he'd find something else to say. But he's just the slurs are flying. And it's the fact that they kept. [01:02:12] Speaker A: The Landis segment in. Do we believe that that was a kind of a calculation on the studios part? That it would cost us more to shelve the film than it would to pay off the relatives? [01:02:24] Speaker B: I'm sure that must be the case especially because the kids who died were young Vietnamese immigrants and stuff like that. I imagine they probably didn't out of it. Exactly. I'm a bet that was the calculation they made. And of course, nobody was really held responsible for what happened either. They pretty much got off scot free. [01:02:50] Speaker A: For it if you don't know what happened, by the way, and you didn't hear the episode we did on movie sets where terrible, fucked up things happened. Corey will put the episode number on our social medias later and on the blog. [01:03:08] Speaker B: Long story short, John Landis did not listen to safety precautions that were given to him and killed Vic Morrow and two young children, decapitated them on the set of Twilight Zone the movie by flying a helicopter too low and causing it to get hit by explosives and crash and kill the actors as a grown up. [01:03:36] Speaker A: And I think if it were done intentionally, that would be the or one of the most metal ways to check out. [01:03:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Helicopter blade. [01:03:47] Speaker A: Jump the fuck up into a helicopter blade. [01:03:49] Speaker B: Yeah. We have talked recently, just in regular conversation, not on the podcast, but about my disdain for helicopters. No, thanks. I also watched The Angry Black Girl and Her Monster, which I really liked. It's basically have you seen it, Mark? [01:04:10] Speaker A: I haven't. It's one of maybe two or three that I'm just dying to see, but I'm not quite finding the time. Another one being a girl walks alone, alone at night. [01:04:21] Speaker B: Nice. Yeah. [01:04:22] Speaker A: All films that I'm super keen on seeing, but I just need to fucking find the right moment. [01:04:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I know that feel. But The Angry Black Girl and Her Monster is like a low budget indie movie that does a lot with what it has, I think. And it's essentially a Frankenstein retelling of sorts about a girl who grows up in sort of a violent housing project and her brother at the beginning of the movie, like opening shot or whatever, has been shot and killed in an act of gang violence. And she herself is sort of like a budding mad scientist or whatever, but who's treated poorly because she goes to an all white school and they just see her as the ghetto black girl and she ends up sort of bringing her dead brother back to life, to deeply violent consequences, which gets her sort of running afoul of the local gang and it sort of unfolds from there. And I thought it was just super well done, incredibly well acted. The lead girl is amazing. I think the monster is pretty scary. Just sort of yeah, good. [01:05:36] Speaker A: You took my language. [01:05:38] Speaker B: Yeah, it's basically her brother, except sewn together and this sort of block say less or whatever. [01:05:46] Speaker A: I'm going to watch that. [01:05:47] Speaker B: He's been rotting and there's some gore that had me closing my eyes while watching it. [01:05:54] Speaker A: And you know what I'm also realizing here that I'm saying, yeah, I want to watch this film. I just never had the time. I watched Hereditary for the fifth time. [01:06:03] Speaker B: Right, yeah. You have time. [01:06:06] Speaker A: I have the time, yeah. [01:06:09] Speaker B: Definitely recommend the angry black girl and her monster. [01:06:11] Speaker A: But that was the angry black girl and her monster. Right, okay. [01:06:14] Speaker B: Yes. The angry black girl and her monster. Not the angry black monster, although the monster is angry and black. And I watched The Puppet Man, which is another shutter original. Not really. I mean, it was fine. It's about a girl, basically. It starts with a man murdering his wife, seemingly under the control of some other force. And over the course of this movie, we are following the daughter of this couple. The man is on death row and the daughter is sort of trying to live her life. She's in college now. But there is some dark force that is causing all of the people around her to kill themselves in extremely violent ways. The gore is quite good. There's a lot of good effects and things like that in it. The movie is just like very basic and predictable and kind of meh. The characters are you do not care about them at all. That kind of with it begins with as a sort know, way of giving some exposition, some podcasters talking about the murder and all that kind of stuff. And it is Henry Zabrowski and Ben Kissel from last podcast on the like, as soon as I heard them, I was like, he made a joke that was very Henry Zabrowski esque. And I was like, wait a minute. And I rewound and listened to it again. I was like, oh, my God, that's Henry and Ben. So that was kind of a fun little Easter egg. [01:07:40] Speaker A: Never listened to a single episode of LP. O-T-D-L-P-O-T-L. Yeah, P-O-T-L. But they seem to be getting quite a huge kind of mainstream media following, don't they? Wasn't some movie recently that had one of their posters up on the wall? [01:07:58] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, that was in Scream, the most recent Scream movie. But no, they're one of the biggest podcasts on earth. And they have been for like a decade. Huge. [01:08:08] Speaker A: I don't listen to podcasts. [01:08:10] Speaker B: Yeah, they have amongst the most listeners in all of podcast. And they're just an enormous force. And I love them. We're close just on the cusp. But that was the puppet man. And then the other thing that I watched on my own was a documentary that has been suggested by algorithms to me for literally since it came out in 2008 or something like that. And it never grabbed me until someone put it on Plex. And I was like, I think we don't watch it. And that was dear Zachary. It says on Letterboxd you have watched Dear Zachary. Yes. Fuck me. Good God. I was not ready. [01:09:02] Speaker A: Did you know anything about it going in? [01:09:04] Speaker B: So the premise, obviously, is that this guy is killed and the filmmaker is making a documentary for his child, Zachary, who was born is it Dan Trachtenberg, maybe? Is it what? [01:09:25] Speaker A: Dan Trachtenberg. [01:09:27] Speaker B: Who did what? Like the documentarian? [01:09:32] Speaker A: The director. Give me a SEC. Yeah, keep going. [01:09:35] Speaker B: Sure. But yeah. So he is making. Just a film to okay. To tell this kid about who his dad was. And his dad seems like the greatest human being and his parents are amazing and everyone loved all three of them. They have just like I'd stay away. [01:09:55] Speaker A: From spoiling this one because you have to. [01:09:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm not going to spoil it for sure, but yeah, basically you're watching the nicest people on earth have a horrendous tragedy hit them and then it just spirals and it is like amongst like I watch a lot of devastating documentaries and this it's one of the most devastating things I have ever watched. [01:10:28] Speaker A: The best way I can describe watching Dear Zachary is it feels like that moment after you've been punched and you are winded. You don't feel the impact of the punch, but the fucking wind leaves your body and you are suddenly just plunged into just this absolute state of grief and yearning and sorrow and regret. It's an incredible fucking piece of work, dear Zachary. [01:10:57] Speaker B: I love it. Yeah, 100%. It's one of those ones that it's like if it weren't so horrible to watch, I'd rewatch it because watching the way that it was unfold. Yeah, no, absolutely not. But the way it unfolds and the way it is made is unlike any other documentary that I've ever seen. [01:11:13] Speaker A: Yes. So clever. [01:11:15] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a really incredible film. So absolutely 100% recommend dear Zachary. Just like only if you're ready to be emotionally ripped into 1000 pieces. [01:11:33] Speaker A: If you're in the state of mind where you want to explore emotion, if you want to explore grief, if you feel as though you want to touch something different, strange, unpleasant, it's the one for you. [01:11:49] Speaker B: And I will say that's exactly it. One of the most incredible things about this documentary is just the interviews with his parents throughout this. Watching the sweetest people on earth absolutely transformed by grief in this is like really you feel it the entire time. Just a fantastic doc recommend. [01:12:13] Speaker A: I won't lie, you've slightly bummed me out by talking about Dear Zachary, the. [01:12:17] Speaker B: Fucking let's talk about some things that we watched together real quick then. Okay. [01:12:23] Speaker A: Let's do leatherface. [01:12:25] Speaker B: Leatherface? Leatherface Texas Chainsaw Massacre three. [01:12:29] Speaker A: Yes. It's one of my pet franchises and I believe that to give it its full title. Leatherface Texas Chainsaw Massacre three. Look, it's nowhere fucking near the work of art. The first one is it doesn't even come close to the work of fucking absolute batshit insanity. That the second one is it's almost new lines attempt to commercialize Leatherface. I think they've tried to make a saleable exhibitable, watchable horror movie and whenever I see it, I find it better that I remember it and I'd never seen it. I'd love your thoughts for the first time. [01:13:20] Speaker B: And my thing with Texas is that I like the first Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I'm not like you where it's like, this is my favorite thing. It's a perfect film. Kind of thing. I enjoy it, though. But I actually find those crazier and less serious later ones more fun and more watchable to me, like something I want to revisit. I love the second one. [01:13:49] Speaker A: In its way. The second one is the equal of the first. [01:13:51] Speaker B: They just do things exactly that. It's like they are doing a different thing and they're both nailing what they're doing. And so, yeah, I had a lot of fun with this. I feel like this is to me, I like the first one, but in terms of rewatchability, I have to be ready to be in the first. Texas puts my body on it. [01:14:18] Speaker A: But again, the horror gets in through the cracks. You've got this group of kids who are just going on a fun road trip until they pick up that fucking hitchhiker who makes the crack and in it know? [01:14:29] Speaker B: Right? Yeah, exactly. And so that's like I feel like mood wise, I can't watch the first one anytime because I'm like it's going to my body reacts to watching that where it's like the third one is so over the top. And you've got Vigo Mortensen as your sort of sexy killer in the family. And why is that? A thing. [01:14:59] Speaker A: Needs sex appeal. [01:15:01] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Make them a little hot. That's going to be great. And it's like an hour and 18 minutes or whatever. If you watch the regular cut and not the extended one that you watch that's got a little more just a few minutes gory. [01:15:14] Speaker A: I had a few minutes on you. [01:15:15] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's the thing about it, too, is most of the violence happens off screen if you're watching the regular cut, which speaks to what you were saying is like, this is kind of the safe sellable version of Texas Chainsaw Massacre. But I think it was fun. I had a really fun time. [01:15:33] Speaker A: Oh, it was. [01:15:34] Speaker B: I would rewatch that for sure. [01:15:37] Speaker A: Just in case anyone cares. The stuff that was restored was largely to do with the little girl of the family. There are some moments where the child of the family stuffs a fucking sharp tooth in someone's leg. She pulls the lever, which swings the sledgehammer at the guy's head. She collects his blood in a little tin can. All of that stuff was gone specifically from the little girl. It was that angle of that movie which the senses over here because keep in mind, the senses over here were still super edgy about the word chainsaw. [01:16:16] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. I mean, this is the cut, though. This is what I have. And I'm not over there. So I think that didn't make it here either. [01:16:26] Speaker A: But over here you could not get that film until maybe 1520 years ago. It was on the list. [01:16:34] Speaker B: Right. [01:16:36] Speaker A: But I happen to love it. You got Ken fory for fuck's sake. Ken fory Drama Stonewall good time when he shows up. Yes. It's by no means the best texas, but holy shit, it's better than whatever came after it. [01:16:52] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. Although then the other reboot that was called Leatherface. We both enjoyed that quite a bit. [01:17:01] Speaker A: Now, which one was that? [01:17:06] Speaker B: It was the one that's not do. [01:17:08] Speaker A: Your thing because it's not that one, is it? [01:17:10] Speaker B: No, it's not. That was I'm trying to think of, like it was I think maybe Jordana Brewster was in it. I'm trying to remember, but I just remember that the other Leatherface, we also enjoyed. So there's some yeah, I think there's a good table saw Kill in that one. Yeah, it's good. Anyways, we watched that again, another one. [01:17:30] Speaker A: Of my pet franchises, which I love. [01:17:33] Speaker B: Yes. We watched Dark Harvest. Oh, did you have a did we watch Dark Harvest? [01:17:40] Speaker A: Yeah, we did. OOH. I don't even think I fucking rated. I put that down. [01:17:45] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. Who even are you all? [01:17:48] Speaker A: I'm slipping. [01:17:51] Speaker B: The guy who can't help but report ratings partway through. [01:17:54] Speaker A: Okay, there we go. Dark Harvest. [01:17:56] Speaker B: You want to describe that one? [01:17:59] Speaker A: Yeah, love to. So we are in, correct me if I'm wrong, 1950s America. [01:18:04] Speaker B: Yeah, it's either late 50s, early sixty s. Fifty s or 60s. Yeah. Somewhere in that vicinity. [01:18:08] Speaker A: You got your greases, you got your punks you got your fucking leather jacket fucking gang crew. Hey, let's smoke a cigarette, yo. Those kind of guys. But they live in a very small rural town with secrets. Very small rural town with dark secrets. The secret being that every Halloween, a gribbly rises called fucking Sharp Toothed Pumpkin Dave or whatever his name is. What's his name? [01:18:37] Speaker B: Yeah, that sounds right. [01:18:38] Speaker A: Sharp Toothed Pumpkin Dave and the kids all have an event called the Run, whereby their parents lock themselves indoors. The kids chase down and beat down this gribbly and they kick him to fuck. He bleeds candy bars like a pinata, so they eat the candy from him. And the person who kills sharp, Pointy tooth, pumpkin headed Jack is the winner of the run for that year. And they're awarded $25,000 check and a brand new car and a home. And yet they're never heard from again. Interesting, isn't it? So what we've got here is a really fun, really kind of kinetic it fucking motors along, you know what I mean? It's a film that just keeps on fucking going. We have all right, look, CG gore. But some of the best CG gore I've seen in a while. [01:19:35] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't hold it against it. [01:19:39] Speaker A: Nah, certainly not. Heads are torn asunder, limbs fly off. They're shocking wounds to the face. It's got the juice. It's got the meat and the juice. It's got a lovely twist in the tail. It's got a sting in the end, and I have no problems with it. It is a solid, solid three star film, which delivers for a nice Halloween scare. [01:20:03] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely feels very seasonal. It's a good one for right now. Yeah. Recommend Dark Harvest. I think you can rent it right now. I don't think it's streaming for free anywhere, but you can rent it. Great little Halloween pick. Add to your we watched Unwelcome. [01:20:22] Speaker A: Unwelcome. [01:20:23] Speaker B: Yes, Unwelcome, which I had a great time with, and I feel like you kind of did, too. But we had different reactions to some perhaps unforgivable CinemaSins. [01:20:38] Speaker A: I had a great time with it up to a certain and very specific point. Right, so let's sketch out the tale of Unwelcome. We start with a inner London couple who rent a flat in a dodgy part town. The wife of the partnership is newly pregnant and their home is invaded by fucking criminal wankers who smash the place up and leave them deeply, deeply traumatized by the event. As you'd imagine. The couple haul ass to Scotland no, Scotland I'm a liar. They haul ass to Ireland, where they've been bequeathed of property, and from then on, things continue. The previous owner of the property, which is like their aunt or something, I believe. [01:21:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:21:32] Speaker A: Insists, insists. You have to leave a blood sacrifice now that's Scottish again. You've got to leave a blood sacrifice at the gate of the little people, or the little people will get hungry and they'll come out and they'll get you. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. All good. Lots going on. Nice and violent. Nice and bloody. You don't see many of these little fucking goblins when they arrive. But the goblins that you do see, they're a fucking great bunch of lads. Proper funny crew. Right. They are cast wise. And, you know, this is a sign of quality when Chief O'Brien himself, Colmini, shows up. [01:22:11] Speaker B: Indeed, yes. [01:22:12] Speaker A: Right. Instantly adding half a star just by having Transporter Chief O'Brien on screen. I fucking love to see him. He looks well as well. It's good to see him looking. Next generation was a long time ago. But whatever Colmini is doing, he's doing it well because he looks a fucking million bucks. Right? They forget the blood sacrifice. Out come the griblis. Chaos ensues. Right. [01:22:39] Speaker B: Right. [01:22:40] Speaker A: There's my now. [01:22:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:22:42] Speaker A: Corey, where did it go wrong? [01:22:47] Speaker B: Well, see, I'm wondering, is it what I pointed out or is there something else before that that was where it went wrong? [01:22:53] Speaker A: It's what you pointed out that I just can't see. [01:22:56] Speaker B: And now yeah, I have regrets about pointing it out because you didn't notice it first and then I did. There is a very weird, obvious continuity error, and part of me wonders if we missed something because I'm like, it's so weird that it feels impossible. It's huge. And I feel like every review should mention it, but then again, so I don't know. Oh, did they? Okay. I wasn't the only one then, because I did not see it in any letterbox reviews. I feel like it's okay for me to say this because it's not a spoiler per se. There is a fire in this spoiler. [01:23:35] Speaker A: Ish so if you want to watch. [01:23:37] Speaker B: I don't want to know a single thing. [01:23:39] Speaker A: If you want to watch unwelcome, and it is look, it's a watchable film. If you can get past what we're about to tell you to get past yeah. What Corey will do is she'll put this timestamp on the blog and it'll be great. Go on. [01:23:50] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. It's one moment. And again, it's not like really a spoiler, the way I'm going to phrase it, anyway. But if you don't want to know anything, give me 35 seconds and I'll timestamp it. But anyway, there is a fire that occurs in this film, and later, towards the end of the film, the place that was on fire is undamaged and the fire is out. And there is never a point at which it is addressed. [01:24:17] Speaker A: They just don't explain it. And it isn't just like a little kind of a little blaze that you can squirt out with a fire extinguisher. It's like the whole bottom fucking floor of this home is a blaze, right? And then 30 seconds later, in the next scene, it's just gone. [01:24:36] Speaker B: Well, the thing is, it's not 30 seconds later, because then you could be like, okay, it went out somehow. The issue is that it's like, 20 minutes later that it's out, at which point this place should be to the ground. [01:24:49] Speaker A: I didn't see any scorch damage. [01:24:51] Speaker B: I didn't see any they just straight forgot, which is very weird. [01:24:58] Speaker A: Whether it's a cutting thing, whether it's a cutting incident, whether it's I don't. [01:25:01] Speaker B: Know what it was, but something ended up on the cutting room floor, whatever. It is simply not explained. Yeah. And it's bizarre. I will give it to you. It just simply didn't tank the entire movie. I text it because it was almost over, and you said something like positive about the movie. And I just went, what happened to the fire? And you responded with, like, a ha. And that was it. [01:25:27] Speaker A: And that was it. [01:25:28] Speaker B: Movie god, the film for you. So I would say, watch it. And it's actually a lot of fun. Just know that makes absolutely no sense. If that's a deal breaker for you, don't watch the movie because you're going to be so mad. [01:25:42] Speaker A: It took what would have been a three and a half star movie down to one and a half, because look, what was it? Universal or MGM? It was a big fucking it was a studio picture. It had studio money. [01:25:53] Speaker B: Might have been lionsgate. [01:25:55] Speaker A: No, I don't think so. I think it was a player. I think it was a big player. I think it was Fox. To get to release with a fucking howler of a continent era like that. I cannot forgive that, I'm afraid. I simply cannot forgive that. So as good as your film is, if you fuck up that badly, get yourself down to one and a half stars, mate, because I'm not having it. [01:26:22] Speaker B: Fair enough. So those are your two takes. One of us is willing to overlook that because I had fun. The other, that's an unforgivable sin. So know yourself and how you're going to react. [01:26:34] Speaker A: That's the message, isn't it? [01:26:35] Speaker B: Blatant, continuity error in here. And the other thing we watched together, the final thing, was Malum, which I quite enjoyed. I can't remember if you liked it or not. [01:26:47] Speaker A: I can't remember seeing it. I fell asleep. [01:26:49] Speaker B: You didn't fall asleep. You were awake for this one, malum was. Yeah, because we both liked it. Because then I said, okay, so this movie was apparently based it's like a remake of the filmmaker's earlier film, but for this he got more money and so he was able to make, like, a higher budget version of a movie that he had made earlier, which, if you read the reviews, is mostly what people are. [01:27:15] Speaker A: Oh, wait, deserted police office. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I do remember it. [01:27:21] Speaker B: Yeah. So we had a really good time with it and they were like, Why are these reviews so low? It's like, oh, everyone's mad that it's a remake of this other movie. Basically, this woman whose father was a cop takes a job on the police force, and her first night she is guarding the old police station that they've closed down and they've now got, like, a new one. But they have to they've given her. [01:27:49] Speaker A: Like, a rookie fucking job just to fucking keep her busy, haven't they? [01:27:53] Speaker B: Well, she requests it, as she says, a couple of times in there because she wanted to be in the place where her father had died in a crazy incident where he killed himself and several other people. Meanwhile, while this is happening, there's like some sort of culty activity happening throughout the town, and she is left to her own devices as now these culty people are trying to access the police station that she's in. And it's a very I mean, it's one of those movies where it's like you're never entirely sure what's real and what's not. Is she imagining the things that are happening to her? You've got this murderous cult vibe. You've got an ACAB vibe, for sure. It's basically like, kind of, in a sense, sort of a siege movie. You've got a woman in one location where shit just keeps coming at her and she's trying to fight it. But, yeah, I really enjoyed Malum. Thought it was a good time. [01:28:55] Speaker A: Yeah, I seem to remember enjoying it at the time, but I really don't have any lasting memories. [01:28:59] Speaker B: Blanked it now. At this point. I recommend it. M-A-L-U-M Mallum. Go ahead. [01:29:06] Speaker A: Can I just resurrect a little rabbit hole that we went down earlier on? Rice okay. Does ACAB include RoboCop? [01:29:20] Speaker B: I want to just throw this to the audience almost, because we have talked at length between the two of us of does ACAB include RoboCop? And I just instead of rehashing that, I think we should let the audience. [01:29:35] Speaker A: We'Ll put it over to you guys. Yes. My stance, for what it's worth, is that when Murphy got shot in the head and to all intents and purposes killed, that absolves him of ACAB, after which he's made into a cyborg and forced to cop against his I think I think I let him off the hook. [01:29:57] Speaker B: Whereas I say ACAB includes RoboCop because he was fully knowing a cop up until his death. So, yes, he is forced to be one. However, who's to say he wouldn't have chosen it? He never denounced it. So ACAB includes RoboCop. [01:30:17] Speaker A: Does death not absolve you of it? Is ACAB even in death, then? [01:30:22] Speaker B: Yeah, death doesn't absolve you. We've been through this on other topics. Why would death absolve you? So, yeah, let us know your thoughts. Does ACAB include RoboCop? Love to see that discussion happen. And maybe I'll post it on the Facebook or whatever to okie dokie remind people. But for this week to close out, it's spooky season. Halloween is upon us. Hopefully you're listening to this in preparation for the holiday. You are ready. Perhaps you're costumed, got some cocoa, you got your candy out. You're ready to give some candy to. [01:31:01] Speaker A: Kids or go to a Halloween party every age? Would you like to see something strange? [01:31:10] Speaker B: Come with us. [01:31:11] Speaker A: I can continue. [01:31:11] Speaker B: We'll see. This our town. [01:31:14] Speaker A: This our town of Halloween. Hope COVID has given me a really nice new deep register to my voice. I'm exploited. [01:31:23] Speaker B: I like it more of this. But so what we decided to do this week is to gather you around our little podcast campfire and tell you some spooky stories to get you into the mood for Halloween. So we have each prepared a campfire tale to tell you this fine day. And we just want you to gather in close. Get a blanket, get your hoodie, your snuggie, whatever it is that you like to wear to keep warm even though roast us more. Yes, absolutely. Settle in as we tell you to close out. Just a couple spooky Halloween stories. [01:32:11] Speaker A: Maybe pop a little tin. Hey, sure. Hey. [01:32:15] Speaker B: A cider for the season. [01:32:17] Speaker A: We're outdoors, we got the campfire going. Maybe smoke a little dube. Yeah. What's the worst that can happen? [01:32:28] Speaker B: Well, I've seen a lot of horror movies. Anyways, would you like to start or shall I? [01:32:36] Speaker A: I would be happy to begin. Friends. Friends. What know ye of the Dibuk? Well, let me tell you something. The Dibuk, it's a concept from folklore of Judaism and mythology. It's particularly to do with the Ashkenazi Jewish culture. Now, the divock is a malevolent possessing spirit or demon that is said to be able to take over the form of a living person. Okay? The word Dibuk, the term comes from a Yiddish word, Yinning to cling or a tear. It represents a malicious, disembodied soul that clings to a living individual, often with the intent of causing harm or controlling their actions. Now, according to the folklore, a Dibuk can possess a person for many, many different reasons. Maybe they're seeking revenge. Maybe they wish to complete unfinished business in life. Maybe they have unresolved suffering. There have been exorcism rituals performed to remove the Dibuk from the possessed individual, conducted generally by a rabbi or another qualified spiritual healer. So with that context, please picture this. The year is 2003, and a strange listing on ebay captures the imagination of men who happen across it. There is a man named Kevin Mannis who has listed an arcane item on his ebay for sale, known as the Dibuk Box. Mannis claimed to purchase the box at an estate sale of a recently deceased 103 year old Polish Holocaust survivor. The lady's granddaughter stated that she and her siblings were always told never, ever open the box. Of course, what does Manus do the second he gets it? The fuck home cracks that fucker open, opens the box straight away. What does he find inside? A series of strange items. A 1928 us penny. A 1925 US penny, one small lock of golden hair. One small lock of black or brownish hair. He finds a granite statue, engraved and gilded with the Hebrew word shalom. He finds one dried out rosebud. He finds one golden goblet and a very strange black candlestick holder with the legs of an octopus. And immediately after opening the box, weird shit began to go down. Light bulbs would spontaneously burst inside his home. Whenever he would approach the box, the box would give off an overpowering, over fuckingwhelming scent of jasmine, which would vanish when he took a single step backwards. Now, he gifted the box to his mother. He wanted fuck all to do with it. So he put all the items back in, gifted it to his mother, and very soon afterwards, his mother suffered a stroke, leaving her unable to speak, leaving her largely immobile. But she was able to write a note and taking a pen, and in her thin, scrawling script, she wrote the two words hate gift. The unusual events in his own life continue. He soon lost the lease on his store. He became the victim of a case of identity theft. All of this continued, leading him to relist that fucking box for sale on ebay. The box was purchased in turn by a student, a guy by the name of Yosef Nietsuke. After some time, Nietsuke was quoted as saying, we've definitely seen a tidal wave of bad luck, he said. When he in turn relisted the box on ebay, my hair began to fall out. I'm in my early twenty s. I got a clean blood test from my doctors, and yet as soon as I got that box, I went completely bald. Nietsuke relisted the item with a full description of the uneasiness and the unhealthiness it had caused him. He listed it for just one single dollar, and halfway through the listing it had climbed to 50, and it ended up going for $280 by the time it finally sold to a university curator by the name of one Jason Haxman, now hacksman who acquired the book from Nietzsche. He immediately also started reporting various unsettling symptoms and disturbances with the help of a good friend of his, Rebecca Edery, who was an Orthodox Jewish bookkeeper, they found features on the box that resembled the design of a receptacle for Torah scrolls. Ederie believed the box had a sacred purpose and suggested a formal Jewish burial with a prayer group to end its misfortune. Now, in the months that followed the discovery of the wooden box, a lot of attention, a lot of significant attention and interest began to surround it. There was an east coast Jewish newspaper called the Forward who ran a story about the box's sale and its rumored supernatural qualities. As a result, the ebay auction page for the box received over 140,000 visits. It's still there now to this day, should you wish to check it out. Numerous individuals, authors, documentarians, a screenwriting crew all sought to closely examine the box. But Hoxton, who's a 46 year old resident of Missouri who owns the box, he was contacted by rabbis, orthodox Jews, hebrew scholars offering to help unravel the box's mysteries. All of that increased attention led Hoxton to take steps like he went. Dexterctory removed his phone number, changed his email address, created a little website, thedibukbox.com it's there. Check it out. To manage those inquiries, he found that the box had started to be referred to as an urban legend. People from various online communities, you know, the cranks, they unrelated to the paranormal. They began discussing the box. The legend of the dibux box began to grow and grow, and eventually, a group of ghost hunters in Long Island created a yahoo chat group specifically devoted to this box. Now, some individuals who even visited Haxman's website claimed to experience unusual symptoms headaches, nightmares, other unusual occurrences. A lot of them led to some bizarre requests. They want him to remove all images of the box from the internet to prevent the spirit from accessing their computers. Now, why such fascination with that box? There are a lot of things in play here in the early naughties, right? The rise of blogging culture, the growing interest in Jewish mysticism, the kabbalah, the availability of high speed internet connections, those allowing easy access to the photos. But that concept of dibuks spirits that attach to living people, it's existed in Yiddish folktales since the 16th century. Many experts refrain from ruling it out entirely, as there are so many other religious traditions, including accounts of similar phenomena. A lot of people don't know what it is, but the fact is that box was passed from person to person, and there can be so many different variables, so many different explanations. But anyone who's come into contact with that box has had bad luck or misfortune fall their way. There have been movies based on this box. For example, the possession from 2012. That's a horror movie loosely based on the story of the Dibux box. The Haunted from 2012, a novel that draws inspiration from the legend of the Dibux box. Then you've got nonfiction. Lots of documentaries have been made about it. The Dibbox Box true story of Chris Chambers, 2011. The Dibuk Box by Jason Haxon, 2011. So many people have written and studied this box, and no one has an idea of whether it's the host of a demon or not. How you feeling, crew? Put another s'more on the fire? Maybe tighten up the zip on your jacket a little. Shit. What was that? Maybe it was a fox. Maybe it was a possum. It could have been anything. Or maybe it was the Dibuk looking for its next victim. Corey, save us from this. I'm passing it over to you. [01:43:25] Speaker B: Elmer McCurdy was what you'd call a career criminal, the kind of no Goodnick who made himself a constant headache to law enforcement, robbing banks and trains with the help of good old nitroglycerin. Of course, Elmer wasn't exactly a scientist, and he really enjoyed blowing things up, so the gleeful baddie would often pack a little too much of the stuff and accidentally blow up his loot. But, hey, he was in it for the love of the game. In September of 1911, elmer and his crew attempted to rob the Citizen's Bank in Chautauqua, Kansas. But this time, while the nitro blew the bank vault open, it failed to penetrate the safe inside. The men were only able to snatch $150 in coins before fleeing the scene. Elmer took off to a friend's property in Bartlesville, Oklahoma, where he proceeded to hang out and get drunk for the next few weeks. But Elmer, that notorious pain in the neck, was at the top of Oklahoma's wanted list. And eventually, using scent dogs, the cops tracked him down to the barn in which he'd been hiding with his coins and his booze. Seeing the writing on the wall, he took one last swig of stolen whiskey and drew his gun, engaging law enforcement in an hour long shootout before they finally realized he wasn't shooting back anymore. When they went inside, they found him with a bullet through the chest, his criminal reign finally at an end. But Elmer's story was far from over. Elmer's corpse was embalmed, and he was declared dead on October 7, 1911. And considering he was a pretty famous criminal, they figured it wouldn't be long before friends or family would come to claim his corpse. But no one did. His body, which had been treated with a powerful arsenic based preservative, sat in the pahuska morgue for years. And I do mean sat. They simply set the corpse up in the parlor in case anyone came to claim him. And when. They didn't. His body became an attraction in and of itself. If you were brave enough, not only could you freely walk in and see the body, you were more than welcome to touch it. And people came from far and wide to do just that. Carnival sideshows featuring mummies were everywhere in those days, and many a worker from such shows would offer to buy the corpse off the undertaker for use in their traveling acts. But he wasn't some unknown corpse they could just toss off to the highest bidder. Theoretically, someone could claim him any day, so he just sat in the parlor, poked and gawked at by macabre thrill seekers. Sure enough, five years later, in 1916, two men finally came a knocking, claiming to be Elmer's brothers from California and insisting that it was their poor, dear parents last wish to be reunited with their precious wayward boy. And so, at long last, the corpse of Elmer McCurdy left Pahuska. But not for a joyful family reunion. No, the two men had no relation to the now tanned and leathery corpse they had claimed from the mortuary. They, like so many before, simply wanted to profit off the stunningly, well preserved former criminal. And for the next decade at least, elmer toured the country. In various carnivals and exhibitions, he could be seen for a few cents in sideshows. He was displayed in an ornate coffin in Los Angeles, his body was covered in wax, put in a different coffin, and displayed in a show of wax dummy villains. But by the mid 1940s, people weren't so into the freak shows anymore. And perhaps in part due to the trauma of World War II, folks weren't clamoring to go see dead bodies on display either. Thus, the corpse of Elmer McCurdy was put into storage in an La. Warehouse, seemingly having seen the end of his post mortem career. But that was still not to be. In 1967, Elmer's body was hauled out of storage and used in a montage during the exploitation film she Freak. He was then sold to the founder of the Hollywood Wax Museum, who may not have realized that the waxwork was an actual human corpse. Thus they put him on display with their other wax people and then moved him to another wax museum, which went bust in the 70s, forcing them to sell off all their waxy boys. At this point, it's highly unlikely that any potential buyer would have any idea that the collection contained the body of an early 20th century crook. And as such, he was scooped up by the pike in Long Beach, California, a quaint little old fashioned boardwalk not too far from La. They covered the body in glow in the dark paint and hung it inside the laugh in the dark funhouse, where countless unknowing guests would have brushed up against his swinging corpse. It wasn't until December of 1976 that the grim truth was revealed as the crew of the TV show the $6 million man set up to film at the pike. One of the techs bumped the dummy roughly causing its arm to drop to the floor. He quickly went to get some glue to reattach it, but it was then that he saw what was hidden under all the layers of wax and paint. It was a real human arm. And he'd just become the final person to desecrate the corpse of Elmer McCurdy. [01:49:54] Speaker A: If you're not pissing cold ice right now, I don't know what to tell you because I'm shat right up from debuks possessing and clinging on to the living through desecrated corpses hanging in fucking funfair rights. This is Halloween, and Corey this week more than ever. What do we need to do? [01:50:33] Speaker B: Stay spooky.