Ep. 265: beltway snipers & a farewell to labour

[00:00:04] Speaker A: All right, now, I might have said this before, but I have a. Maybe I haven't said it before, but it. I'm gonna say. I'm gonna say it for the first time. I have an innate warmth toward people who can take a bad situation and make it worse. Right. [00:00:23] Speaker B: I think you have said that. Yes. [00:00:24] Speaker A: I just kind of like that. I don't know. Like, I've said, don't ever fear turning up to a meeting. I'm. I've. I've invited you to late with a coffee. Don't ever fear. [00:00:37] Speaker B: Oh. Oh, man. That. I hate that with my. See, that goes against my. Like my biggest pet peeve in the world is when people aren't considerate. You know, that's the. That's the thing. If you aren't. If you can only think of yourself as the main character that the devil [00:00:53] Speaker A: is in the detail here. The devil's in the detail. If you turn up late, I'm gonna be fucked off. [00:00:58] Speaker B: Right. [00:00:59] Speaker A: How inconsiderate are you? If you turn up late with a coffee. You doubled the down and you have earned my respect. [00:01:06] Speaker B: No, that's a. I will never speak to you again situation. I know I've made. [00:01:10] Speaker A: You've got. You've tipped it over into it being funny. [00:01:13] Speaker B: No, this. [00:01:14] Speaker A: You've managed to be funny with your tardiness. [00:01:16] Speaker B: This happened with my friend Chelsea's ultrasound for her child and her. We went in separate cars with her husband. So he went in one car and we went with another because he was like, you know, he's always a little bit behind or whatever. So, like. All right, well, we. She's got to be on time, so we'll see you in a minute. And so, you know, the nurse is like in there and she's like, are we waiting for him? Like, you know, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 15. But where the is he? Because they're gonna find out the gender today. [00:01:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:50] Speaker B: And we're standing there and then Philip comes in with a whole ass coffee from Starbucks. I was like, oh, sir, my. [00:02:03] Speaker A: Kind of. [00:02:04] Speaker B: You were not married to my best friend. [00:02:06] Speaker A: You know, I can see this whole process. I'm going to be late. I may as well, you know, let's. Let's go all in. Let's not have. [00:02:15] Speaker B: I cannot abide it. I cannot. [00:02:17] Speaker A: I'd rather that right than you. But then you burst through the door sweaty. Oh, and you make up some. [00:02:23] Speaker B: That's how you. If you're late. Yes. You gotta come in there and you gotta. [00:02:26] Speaker A: You gotta look, style it out. I have one of the cardboard cup holders. We're like, sup, and just take your seat. [00:02:34] Speaker B: The rage that I. That's the kind of thing that keeps me like. I just don't make eye contact for the rest because it's like, if I look at you. [00:02:44] Speaker A: No, see, I'm laughing. That is a genuine laugh. [00:02:46] Speaker B: I like, I don't mind people being late generally, but if it's clear they did it and they had no thought about it, that's when I get mad. Otherwise I'm like, oh, things happen. [00:02:57] Speaker A: The coffee is the thought, though. You've obviously gone. [00:03:00] Speaker B: Yeah. They chose let's make this. To waste my time on purpose. [00:03:04] Speaker A: Let's make this funny as. [00:03:05] Speaker B: No. [00:03:06] Speaker A: Anyway, which is to say, I mean, this. This to this week's opening of Jack of All graves is very tangentially related to what I've just already wasted 10 minutes of your time talking about. Right. [00:03:15] Speaker B: Getting us worked up out the game. [00:03:17] Speaker A: The point is. The point is it takes a special kind of motherfucker to take a really shit situation and make it way worse. Right. And you were there, Corrigan. Right. You were there. So why don't you sketch out for me what life was like in post 9 11America? [00:03:41] Speaker B: Jesus, that's a. [00:03:42] Speaker A: Why don't you. Let's say we're in autumn 2002. Talk to me about the vibe. So less than a year, maybe one year, post 9 11. [00:03:54] Speaker B: I mean, give me, like a. What element of life are we talking? [00:04:00] Speaker A: Well, just. All right, generally, how was the news? How was the politics? How was law enforcement? Terrible. [00:04:05] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, everyone was, like, deeply Islamophobic. Yes, everything was terrible. All the movies that came out were, like, horrible and misogynistic and violent and things like that in ways that, like, they had not been before. So pop culture was an absolute cesspool at the time. Yeah, men were terrible and very, like, you know, rah rah, military esque at that point, you know, [00:04:40] Speaker A: Sorry, we'll come back to this. We'll come back to this during the show. But 70 mps, 70 mps. We've gone up. [00:04:45] Speaker B: Oh, it's over, bro. Yeah, it was. It was a weird time. It was always terrified. You know, my boyfriend was 2002, so we're 17 years old. We were getting towards draft age. So it was like, you know, with this war on, like. [00:05:06] Speaker A: Yeah, he's. [00:05:07] Speaker B: He's signing up for the. You have to sign up for selective service when you turn 18. He's filling out forms for this and whatnot. And I'm like, is my boyfriend Going to be sent to die in a war. Like, what the is going on? [00:05:21] Speaker A: Nightmarish time, febrile atmosphere. And I believe they was, they were like anthrax attacks in the Post. [00:05:26] Speaker B: Is that correct? [00:05:27] Speaker A: Yeah, there was been sent in the mail. [00:05:29] Speaker B: Well, yeah, you've got like, you've got the anthrax stuff. You've got all kinds of like terrorism alerts. I think that's when they like created the like color terrorism alert system. It's when you get like the Patriot act, obviously that lets them spy on us all the time and you know, makes you the thing that I always think of with like traveling and I know I've told this before too, but like, so August of 2001, I went to Mexico and I. So I was just before I turned 16, two days before 9 11, right. So it was. I was 15 years old, I went to Mexico with my youth group and we were coming back and so I didn't have a driver's license or anything. And so when I walked through, I was like, I don't have an ID. Like, I'm 15 years old, where would I get an ID from? And the guy at the border was like, where are you? Where were you born? I was like, Massachusetts. And he was like, spell it. So I spelled Massachusetts. And he was like, all right, come on in. That's how I got through. Then a month later, 911 happens, and we're still, you know, not allowed to bring toothpaste on an airplane. [00:06:42] Speaker A: Wow, that's a hell of a contrast, right? [00:06:46] Speaker B: Yeah. One month difference in how we have traveled, how we travel has changed forever. [00:06:53] Speaker A: That's a hell of a contrast. And a year later, I guess, you know, particularly in Washington D.C. very heavily policed anyway. But I'm going to talk. [00:07:07] Speaker B: You talk about the sniper, I'm going [00:07:09] Speaker A: to talk to you about the fucking beltway snipers. [00:07:12] Speaker B: As soon as you said the anthrax thing, I was like, oh, and we had the DC sniper. [00:07:16] Speaker A: Yeah, you did, yeah. [00:07:18] Speaker B: Which by the way, and you'll tell the story. But later, not long after this, like, this became a thing, right? Like this like sniper shit became a thing. I don't know if this is part of your story either, but when I lived, I went to college in Orange County, Southern California, and we got a freeway sniper there. Like shortly after I started going to school there, like someone started killing people on the freeways. [00:07:45] Speaker A: So. [00:07:45] Speaker B: So yeah, it was a super violent. [00:07:48] Speaker A: I know. Like on and off over the last five years or so, I've talked about this case and Kind of. It fascinates me, the level of premeditation and planning that went into this. Right. [00:08:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:03] Speaker A: Even though, as will become clear, the motives are very fucking hazy. Very still wide open to conjecture. There's no clear motive, which is a [00:08:14] Speaker B: thing I think we still constantly see when it comes to like there are every now and again on tv. Not every now. And it's pretty common. There's like, like once a month at least there's like a terror attack that is thwarted. You know, oh, the NYPD stopped a terror attack or whatever. And then immediate, like they, it was ISIS inspired. They admitted it was ISIS inspired. I'm like, this is not real. This is not a thing. But fine, whatever. But most of the time, like say with like all the people who have attempted to assassinate Trump or like things like that, it's. Or like even with something like Luigi Mangione, like these people do not have coherent politics. [00:08:56] Speaker A: No. [00:08:56] Speaker B: You know, they're trying to figure this out. [00:08:58] Speaker A: You're right about. [00:08:59] Speaker B: This is all over the place. [00:09:00] Speaker A: The vocabulary with which murderous incidents are reported is very interesting. Right. A couple of years back, we had a fella over here who, who crashed his way into a dance class, a children's dance class, and murdered a bunch of kids. Stabbed a bunch of kids. Oh, yeah, right. Awful, appalling crime and so many questions, so much reporting. Even today, the, the, the dialogue about this case continues. But for the longest time I've been looking out for it and it doesn't happen anymore when it's discussed. But for the longest time after that event, every single news report seemingly went out of its way to mention that the kids were murdered during a Taylor Swift themed dance. [00:09:55] Speaker B: I remember that. Yep. [00:09:57] Speaker A: What the fuck is that about? [00:09:59] Speaker B: That seemed very important to the entire story. Like, I think Taylor Swift had to like make a statement about it. [00:10:04] Speaker A: What is that about? Why like you, you could that. The cadence, that sentence during a Taylor Swift themed dance class. [00:10:14] Speaker B: Right. [00:10:15] Speaker A: That's insane to me. That is incredible to me how that's doing work. [00:10:19] Speaker B: Right. Like the. What, what kind of kids were these? These weren't like, you know, these weren't immigrant kids or anything like that. These were nice kids who listen to Taylor Swift that were in there. They were listening to nice white music while they were in there. That's important that, you know, they were listening to Taylor Swift when this happened. You know, it's the way that they ref. There was last week. I'm sorry to derail your thing, but you've like really hit on something that gets to Me a lot. But there was the president of Cornell University hit multiple students who were trying to ask him about, like Palestine, right. And so there was standing behind him, like in his car, he. [00:11:09] Speaker A: Okay, okay, okay. [00:11:10] Speaker B: Backed up into one kid and ran over another kid's foot. But the news, while showing this footage, which is such a mind. They were showing the footage of him backing up into this one kid and running over the other kid's foot while he's screaming, I ran over my foot. And they're like, the president of Cornell bumped protesters for Palestine slowly with his car. Every single news report bumped slowly with his car. And I'm like, I have eyes, I can see what actually happened. You're showing me the video of what happened. [00:11:45] Speaker A: Group think that's some group think shit, right? [00:11:47] Speaker B: They're telling you how you should interpret the thing that is in front of you. And I just think when it comes to these like terrorists things that we have been watching for the past 25 years, since 9, 11, it's like so controlled the way that you're supposed to think about. [00:12:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:06] Speaker B: The people who do these things, sorry to derail, but not at all immediately you triggered. [00:12:13] Speaker A: You know how fascinating the news is to me, right. I can't let it go. And you, you pick things up over the years, man. And that's just one of the things in recent, in recent memory that has stood out. Anyway, let's talk about the. [00:12:25] Speaker B: The sniper. Tell me all about it. [00:12:26] Speaker A: Talk about the Beltway sniper attacks. Might it interest you to hear a little bit about the methodology here? Might it interest you to hear a little bit about why it took three weeks to catch these two lads? Yes. So what we have here is a stolen semi automatic sniper rifle. A Bushmaster XM15. [00:12:55] Speaker B: Yes. [00:12:56] Speaker A: Which is a kind of civilian edition of a military M16 assault rifle. Okay. [00:13:02] Speaker B: Okay. [00:13:04] Speaker A: This is a weapon that was stolen from Bullseye Shooter Supply in Tacoma, Washington, which is fantastic. [00:13:12] Speaker B: It's just very on the nose. [00:13:14] Speaker A: And the two fucking snipers used as unremarkable a car as. I think you could pick out a 1990s Chevy which was a former police saloon with a hole cut. [00:13:29] Speaker B: A police what? [00:13:31] Speaker A: Saloon car kind of a car. Large saloon style car. Is that not a term you've heard? [00:13:35] Speaker B: No, I've never heard that. [00:13:37] Speaker A: You surely you've heard of a saloon? [00:13:38] Speaker B: A saloon? [00:13:40] Speaker A: No, saloon automobile. It's just a large, broad, wide kind of style car. Saloon. [00:13:46] Speaker B: Okay. [00:13:47] Speaker A: Is that not a term you've heard? No. Like I am the least. I am not a car guy. I couldn't give a fuck. But I. I could. I could show you a saloon. [00:13:58] Speaker B: And it's different from like an suv. [00:14:00] Speaker A: Yep, for sure. An SUV is a utility vehicle. It's like a jeep. [00:14:06] Speaker B: A sedan is what we call it. [00:14:09] Speaker A: Oh, is that right? [00:14:10] Speaker B: Yes. [00:14:11] Speaker A: Okay. [00:14:12] Speaker B: That's what it is. It's primarily known as a saloon in British and New Zealand English. [00:14:18] Speaker A: There you go. [00:14:18] Speaker B: Sedan in American English. Okay, I'm back with you. [00:14:23] Speaker A: So we're back. Hole at the back, near the registration plate with the rifle aimed through the back. The modified. The entire back seat of the sedan. Yeah. Yes, completely modified. So that the shooters could lie in a prone kind of position. A bipod, even a brace for the gun. Just perfect aperture that they could fire through without any visibility from outside at all. They communicated with one another via walkie talkie. So the shooter in the back with a walkie talkie to the guy in the front. So they could communicate constantly. No need to shout, no risk of being misheard. No muzzle flash. Just a fucking car parked up often across garage forecourts or parking spaces. No even the. The sound of the shot ringing out suppressed from inside the car. So only the only thing you would fucking hear is maybe a muffled crack. You wouldn't even know what was going on. Many cases before you'd hit the ground fucking dead by the time the car was fucking on its way out there. [00:15:36] Speaker B: Yep. [00:15:38] Speaker A: Incredible shit, right? Might it interest you to hear that before we even got to October, before the sniping campaign began, the two killers had already killed 10 other people. [00:15:57] Speaker B: Before the sniping for this. [00:16:01] Speaker A: Did you know that? [00:16:02] Speaker B: What year Was this again? [00:16:04] Speaker A: 2002. [00:16:05] Speaker B: 2002. I don't remember if I knew that. [00:16:09] Speaker A: I will already. I don't recall correct myself. They'd shot 10 other people, killed seven. [00:16:16] Speaker B: Geez. Okay. [00:16:17] Speaker A: Yep. [00:16:17] Speaker B: But not part of the sniping spree. [00:16:19] Speaker A: This is like a totally separate of the sniping spree. February that year, a lady by the name of Kenya Cook was fucking shot and killed right at the front door of her aunt's house. A guy called Terry Taylor, guy in his. Sorry, Jerry Taylor, guy in his 60s, shot and killed while he was on a fucking golf course in Arizona. [00:16:42] Speaker B: Geez. [00:16:43] Speaker A: Again the names go on and on and on. Guy shot in the neck with a revolver. Guy by the name of John Gator, he lived. [00:16:53] Speaker B: Was this in Arizona too? Were they all over the place? [00:16:55] Speaker A: Nope, this was in Louisiana. These are across states. [00:16:58] Speaker B: Okay, yeah. [00:16:59] Speaker A: An absolute campaign of gun violence. [00:17:02] Speaker B: Right. [00:17:03] Speaker A: Even before we even got to the fucking snipers. In Washington. The snipings in Washington. Pretty mad. [00:17:10] Speaker B: Yep. [00:17:11] Speaker A: But this is where the actual campaign kicks off. I'm swearing a lot tonight. I apologize. [00:17:18] Speaker B: I didn't notice, but go on. [00:17:20] Speaker A: I'm swearing. Like punctuation. [00:17:21] Speaker B: It's terrible when you get enthusiastic. That does happen. It's a sign of passion. [00:17:26] Speaker A: I start to move my arms, the arms start to come into play. The hand talking starts to happen early on. [00:17:33] Speaker B: You started immediately the. The head stroke. And I knew we were. We were in for it. [00:17:39] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Anyway, listen. It's October 2nd. [00:17:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:45] Speaker A: And it is 5:20 in the afternoon. And a shot rings out through the window of a fucking craft shop in Maryland. Is that. We pronounce it Maryland. Maryland. How you pronounce Maryland? [00:18:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Or Maryland. It depends on your accent. [00:18:03] Speaker A: Maryland. [00:18:04] Speaker B: It's not Maryland. That's the one way to say it. Wrong. [00:18:07] Speaker A: This one misses. This one misses the cashier. And Ann Chapman completely misses. No call to the cops is put in, no alarm is raised. It is simply assumed to be an act of vandalism. Until 40 minutes later, 602. Guy by the name of James Martin is shot. Killed in the car park of a grocery store in Wheaton, Maryland. [00:18:34] Speaker B: It's interesting just thinking about like the methodology here because. And they're using the car, right? They're, they're doing this the same way to be like so like careful in creating like so premeditated in the way that they like created this car and all that kind of stuff. And to be so impulsive as to be like, oh, we missed somebody. I can't go tonight without. Yeah, we. We just got to find somebody else to kill, you know? Like, this is an interesting mix. [00:19:03] Speaker A: You are not safe. This is another reason why this fucking case appeals to me so much. [00:19:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:08] Speaker A: As you beautifully put the craft and the premeditation and the planning that went into the method of murder. Yet the victims themselves seem absolutely arbitrary. [00:19:20] Speaker B: Yeah, right. Totally random. Just who's there? [00:19:23] Speaker A: Next day, five deaths in one day. In one day. In starting in the morning, going into the evening. October 3, 2002. Between 20 to 8 in the morning and 10 o' clock that same morning, four people are shot and killed in the space of around two hours. A landscaper, a guy by the name of James Buchanan Jr. Killed while he's mowing the lawn. You got a taxi driver, Prem Kumar Valakar, killed while he's fucking pumping gas. [00:19:58] Speaker B: Ooh, that's a dangerous place to be firing a gun, isn't it? That could have been A lot worse. [00:20:04] Speaker A: Maybe not from that distance. It could have been a lot worse for the people on that forecourt. But if you're right in the little [00:20:10] Speaker B: for the sniper, fine. [00:20:13] Speaker A: You know, Sarah Ramos, Laurianne Luis Rivera and A. Pascal Charlotte, all killed. Five people in one day, seemingly unconnected to one another. But by that afternoon, by the afternoon of October 3rd, we have a multi agency investigation. Next day, a Caroline Sewall shot while she's fucking putting her shopping in her van. She survives, walks it off. Ten days later she's out of hospital. Good job, Caroline. Hope you're still with us. [00:20:51] Speaker B: Yes. [00:20:53] Speaker A: Couple of days break, October 7th. We have a 13 year old fucking kid. [00:21:01] Speaker B: Oh no. [00:21:02] Speaker A: Shot, critically wounded, shot in the chest, walks it off. [00:21:07] Speaker B: Oh, good. Not that it's not terrible with everybody else, but Jesus Christ, I mean, come on. [00:21:12] Speaker A: But Corrigan, right? The two fucking guys in this fucking sniper mobile are emptying rifles at kids on the fucking gates of their school. [00:21:24] Speaker B: Jesus. This is before this was happening. Like kids were doing it themselves every Friday. [00:21:31] Speaker A: Yeah, just, you know. But all of the. All of the things you fucking love about, about a murder case are present in this case. Near the scene of this shooting at the school, cops find a tarot card, okay, left at the site and it's the death card. [00:21:55] Speaker B: Nice, right? Yeah. [00:21:57] Speaker A: And written on the card in Sharpie are the words call me God. [00:22:05] Speaker B: Oh, fucking hell. [00:22:08] Speaker A: For sure, for sure. There's also an instruction written on the card of cops, do not tell them the fucking media about this. Do not release this detail to the press. [00:22:22] Speaker B: Feel like that's not how that works. [00:22:24] Speaker A: Well, there's more of this to come. Well, stay tuned. [00:22:29] Speaker B: We'll get there, okay? And it's just like the. Usually when it comes to like not releasing details to the press, like the cops decide that based on, like, oh, we want to like withhold this bit so that like if someone admits to it or whatever, like we know that nobody else knew about it. It's like if they. If they say it, I mean, then they get there. Okay, go ahead. [00:22:56] Speaker A: More murders, right? A couple of days later, a guy, Dean Myers again pumping gas in Manassas, Virginia, popped him dead. Another note near the scene, right? [00:23:12] Speaker B: This one, the tarot card was the first note. None of the other ones had. [00:23:15] Speaker A: Tarot card was the first note. None of the others had notes. This one, a handwritten note demanding $10 million transferred to a bank of America. [00:23:26] Speaker B: Be serious, sir. [00:23:29] Speaker A: Do you want me to score you God, or do you want 10 mil? Right, pick an angle. [00:23:33] Speaker B: You're really? Yeah, you're right. The motives are getting a little weird here. [00:23:39] Speaker A: But this is. This is it. This is. This is why you're so right. The motives were impossible to pin down. The note ends with the sentence, your children are not safe anywhere at any time. [00:23:51] Speaker B: Jesus Christ. [00:23:54] Speaker A: You know, talk about fucking all the hits. You got some Zodiac in here, you got some Jack the Ripper in here. [00:24:01] Speaker B: It's clear, it's deliberate, right? It's. It's exactly kind of, you know, the. What you've talked about before of like, well, what if your. Your, like, M.O. was all over the place? You'd be, you know, you know, a little less traceable. It wouldn't work now in 2026, but at that point, you know, when it wasn't as much of a surveillance state and things like that, and people wouldn't just go like, hey, that weird car is everywhere. Yeah, but at the time it was like, yeah, just change up your demands. And like what you say you're about, one day you're a deluded weirdo who's like, call me God. And the next day you're like, I want $10 million and like, money. Yeah, right. And meanwhile, I mean, it's also just like definitional terrorism as well, right? Telling people your kids aren't safe. Be scared everywhere that you are. [00:24:49] Speaker A: But I mean, you know, we talk about how the victims seem random, but with. If they were. Holy shit. They drew some fucking absolutely insane cards after a couple of days. Right? We have another guy on October 11th killed at a petrol station. But then on October 14th, we have an FBI intelligence analyst. I mean, it's DC shot dead. Yeah, that'll happen. That's a great point. [00:25:17] Speaker B: He can't throw a stone without hitting an FBI analyst. [00:25:19] Speaker A: That's a great point. But she's with her husband, put in fucking shopping in her car. Crack. She's dead. Isn't that wild? [00:25:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:30] Speaker A: Now the cops are all fucked up at this point. The cops are looking for a van. Oh, conflicting intelligence. They're looking for a white van. So the blue sedan is already on the road and nobody's looking for him. Right? [00:25:43] Speaker B: Right. [00:25:45] Speaker A: So the 10 day session comes to an end on the 19th. We have a lady who is shot and. Oh, sorry, Jeffrey is a man's name. He's shot and walks it off, which is fantastic. And then we have the final killing on the 22nd. A bus driver is standing on the steps of his bus. [00:26:10] Speaker B: Jesus. [00:26:11] Speaker A: When he is shot and dies in hospital. [00:26:15] Speaker B: It's interesting because my first thought was like, man, you'd think everyone would just be like, hunkering down or whatever. But, you know, we've talked about this before here of like, the idea, I mean, like, technically you can get shot anywhere here we still, like, go do things, so, you know, you can't live like that. But you always hear stories of like, you know, with like, Son of Sam and, you know, Ted Bundy and things like that. It's like women who. Or like, what's his face? Oh, God, was the LA one. Anyways, like that. Like women who fit certain descriptions, like long hair. Like women would cut their hair so that, like, you know, it wouldn't fit the profile of, you know, what a serial killer was looking for. Stuff like that. Right. It was like when those serial killings were going down, people would like, change their entire lives to avoid being a target. [00:27:10] Speaker A: D.C. in 2002, people carried on pumping gas. People carried on. [00:27:14] Speaker B: There were plenty of people who were like, I'm just not fucking going anywhere. They just weren't getting shot because they stayed home. But yeah, it's so crazy. [00:27:23] Speaker A: The investigation remains also fascinating. Right. Within days of those first killings, on 3rd October, 4, some 400 agents were on the case. The cops established a tip line, a free tip line. Crime scenes were analyzed, digitally mapped. Now publicly, the face of the case was a police chief, Charles Moose. [00:27:55] Speaker B: Nice. [00:27:56] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. Who held multiple press conferences daily, lots of them broadcast live. He was very much the public face, the public voice of the investigation and had a relationship with the media that was frequently hostile, combative, belligerent. Right. Details like the tarot cards which investigators had explicitly request be withheld from the press. They were published by the Washington Post. Right. They were reported by Channel nine. Moose ERUPTS I have not received any message that citizens of Montgomery county want Channel nine or the Washington Post to solve this case. If they do, let me know. We'll go and do the other police work and we will turn this case over to the media and you can solve it. [00:28:54] Speaker B: I think it became like New York by the end of this. This wasn't where we started. [00:28:59] Speaker A: I didn't settle in a voice yet. I haven't character characterized Moose yet. How did the breakthrough happen? For sake? For reasons that have never really, I don't think, been fully explained, the two killers made contact with a priest. [00:29:20] Speaker B: Okay. [00:29:21] Speaker A: Yes. A priest in Virginia fully described all of their crimes. [00:29:28] Speaker B: Oh, wow. Like in the. Like, did they go to confession? Did they call? Like, how did they do this? [00:29:34] Speaker A: And, well, the priest was in Ashland, Virginia. So how far is that going to be from close. [00:29:39] Speaker B: Like anything that's like Virginia, Maryland area is probably fairly close to D.C. [00:29:48] Speaker A: but they told, they told the priest everything. They told the priest the entire thing. And that priest obviously went to the law, which you'd expect. Yeah, they were able to lift prints. So on October 17, they got a fingerprint. [00:30:07] Speaker B: So they did. They actually went to the church and like talked to the priest. [00:30:12] Speaker A: It was a call that the I, I am I news just in. The two snipers called the priest. They fucking rang the priest, got it and advised that they told. In fact, hell, they told the priest to go to the cops and tell them to look into a killing in September 2002. One of the earlier fucking crimes that they'd committed. They, they almost felt they were like, [00:30:37] Speaker B: hey, don't forget to give us credit for that. [00:30:38] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Priest, your father, Father fucking Heavenly Father, tell the cops to look into this. It was us. [00:30:45] Speaker B: I don't think you call a priest [00:30:46] Speaker A: Heavenly Father, do you not? [00:30:48] Speaker B: I don't know. [00:30:48] Speaker A: That's God my business, okay? [00:30:52] Speaker B: He's just regular father [00:30:55] Speaker A: incredible stuff. So what they also managed to do, thanks to that tip off from the priest investigating that Alabama crime scene, they found a magazine with a print which they got from a print that they took from the school shooting. Cases wide open. [00:31:13] Speaker B: Did they do that on purpose? [00:31:16] Speaker A: This is it. [00:31:17] Speaker B: It feels like it's like what's. What's going on here? Why would you send them to a place where you left something behind like they did, huh? Okay, go on. [00:31:28] Speaker A: So the case is cracked wide open. They found the print was matched to a guy by the name of Lee Boyd Malvo. He had the prints on file. So they've got a name, they've got a fingerprint. They researched the guy's background. They uncovered his association with his cocking perpetrator, John Allen, who lately changed his name to John Allen Mohammed joined the Nation of Islam. They trace the fucking car purchase. The 1990 Chevy Caprice. They've got it all, the names, the car, the fucking prints. And they are able to track that plate, the number plate to have been found near loads of the shooting locations. And on the evening of October 23rd, Chief Moose, Chief fucking Moose himself stands at a press conference and says a message down the fucking camera directly to the snipers. You have indicated to us, you have indicated that you want us to do and say certain things. You've asked us to say we've caught the sniper like a duck and a noose. We understand hearing us say this Is important to you. He's communicating directly to the killers based on letters and notes that they've written. Right, but the meaning of that phrase, like a duck and a noose, never been explained, never been publicly acknowledged. [00:32:55] Speaker B: I mean I guess a duck and a noose would be caught. That's true. Yes. On a very literal way this. [00:33:03] Speaker A: There's obviously a dialogue going on between. [00:33:05] Speaker B: Yeah, where did it come from on camera. [00:33:07] Speaker A: And the killers. Such a hell of a case. So anyways, to cut the long story because I could go on all night. [00:33:19] Speaker B: Go on. I mean that's what we're here for. [00:33:21] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great point. That's a great point. So during that. Yeah, great. Again, great. But no, I don't, I got nowhere to be. But what I am doing is watching the news. [00:33:31] Speaker B: We'll get there, we'll get there. Don't worry. Don't rush the story because you want to talk about the news. [00:33:35] Speaker A: Okay, now let's see where we're at. [00:33:43] Speaker B: So they. Moose has just addressed. [00:33:47] Speaker A: Yes, yes, our killers. Same at that very same press conference. Right. Moose tells the press that they have a. An arrest warrant out for John Allen Muhammad. They've got a weapons warrant out for him. But withholds the information about the car. Right. [00:34:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:13] Speaker A: The only time that somebody in the public was able to act on that was after it had been leaked to the media that it was a Chevy Caprice. When a member of the public, a guy by the name of Whitney Donahue finds the fucking car at a services at a rest stop near Myersville, Frederick county sees the car, calls it and at 3:19 in the morning the state police swarmed the car. The FBI swarmed the car. The Montgomery County SWAT swarm the fucking car and find the two inside asleep. [00:34:55] Speaker B: Seems like a. Well, I guess I can kind of see and like why would they not tell people the car? Because then you could like see and not get shot by them. But I guess maybe they were just concerned they would offload the car and. [00:35:09] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. That is my. I, I'm not a cop. [00:35:14] Speaker B: But they, they knew what the car looked like. They didn't want them to. [00:35:18] Speaker A: They didn't want the killers know. [00:35:20] Speaker B: They knew and then what the car looked like. Sure. [00:35:23] Speaker A: Okay, so the killers are found asleep at services just off a motorway. Asleep. Corriean. Fucking sleeping bag. [00:35:33] Speaker B: Inconspicuous. [00:35:35] Speaker A: Incredible. Incredible. So obviously media goes ape shit. The, the, the, the, the narrative is incredible. The killers were leaving note to the scenes. They were, they were in this fucking strange cryptic dialogue with the Cops via press conferences. [00:35:57] Speaker B: Right. [00:35:59] Speaker A: So let's talk trials. It was Muhammad that was tried first, John Allen Muhammad. They gave. [00:36:10] Speaker B: Were they. I may be confusing cases. Were they related? Was it. No, okay. [00:36:19] Speaker A: No, they were not. [00:36:19] Speaker B: Because I thought there was one that was like a father and son situation. Yes, it was this one. [00:36:24] Speaker A: Right, right, right, right, right. So you got John Allen Muhammad and Lee Malvo. Right? [00:36:30] Speaker B: Okay. [00:36:32] Speaker A: Unrelated. [00:36:33] Speaker B: Okay. [00:36:37] Speaker A: John Allen Muhammad was an ex soldier, Right? He's a vet. [00:36:40] Speaker B: I mean, that often is the case. [00:36:43] Speaker A: Yes, indeed. [00:36:45] Speaker B: Most of our biggest acts of terrorism and things like that are committed by people who used to be in the military. [00:36:51] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the, the second guy, Lee Malvo, Jamaica, his mother had a close relationship with Muhammad. Right. So he was a family friend. Certainly not a blood relative, certainly not related. But John Muhammad was in a relationship with his mother. His mother kind of had false documentation and had to fly the fucking state that they lived in. And she left Malvo in Muhammad's care. So they were not related, but there was a relationship between the two. [00:37:29] Speaker B: Got it. Kind of almost a stepfathery situation there. [00:37:33] Speaker A: Yes. I mean, was it a grooming kind of relationship? Was it, you know, the kid was abandoned? No. Kind of a transient kind of life. Yeah, no. What's the term? Legal status, I guess. [00:37:50] Speaker B: Right, yeah, exactly. Just sort of in the middle. There's nothing for him. [00:37:56] Speaker A: Yes. And prevalent theories about the motive. Was it a revolutionary thing? You know, like I said, In 87, Muhammad joined the Nation of Islam. Changed his surname to Muhammad, converted to Islam. Was it, Was that a part of the ideology? The 10 million dollar demand was that to, you know, to send to a. A chapter of some. Some fucking group, Right? Was it just. Was it just lashing out? Was it ptsd? [00:38:34] Speaker B: Right. [00:38:36] Speaker A: There's even a theory that the entire thing was orchestrated just to kill. So Muhammad could kill his ex wife. Right. To engineer custody of his kids. [00:38:47] Speaker B: Huh. [00:38:47] Speaker A: So then if. If he established this random ass. Pattern of motiveless killings. [00:38:53] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. [00:38:54] Speaker A: Then she could be one of his misses exactly, exactly. [00:38:58] Speaker B: Seems like a lot of work. [00:39:00] Speaker A: Escape suspicion entirely and get his kids, get custody of his children. Again, what a case. [00:39:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. It's what a case. It really is. I mean, when it comes down to it, I think, you know, the PTSD part or some element of military trauma plays such a big role in all of these kinds of things that it's like whether that is the whole motive or things like that, it certainly tends to with people's brains in such a way that you end up with like just really incoherent. [00:39:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:37] Speaker B: Like this, you know, where it's like, you try to get to the bottom of it and you're like, I don't. I don't know. There's any number of reasons they could have done this. They're not gonna tell and, you know, which in and of itself is like, you know, when it comes to the idea of terrorism, it's like. Well, normally they want to tell us what. What they want. Right. Like there's a manifesto. [00:40:02] Speaker A: Yes. It seemed like. It seemed like if they went out of their way to draw attention to the fact that when they weren't getting. [00:40:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:11] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Leaving a note, calling the priest. It's us. [00:40:17] Speaker B: I mean, it's like. I mean, it's just basic serial killer and they wanted the credit. You know, like, let's speed up. You know, speedrun this. Just kill a whole bunch of people and then get famous off of it. [00:40:32] Speaker A: Yes. Well, if by famous you mean executed via lethal injection, then that's certainly what happened to John Muhammad. March 9, 2004. [00:40:48] Speaker B: That was quick. [00:40:50] Speaker A: Yes. Actually, I'm wrong. 2009. [00:40:53] Speaker B: Okay. [00:40:54] Speaker A: He was sentenced in 2004. [00:40:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:56] Speaker A: But injection was carried out on in November 2009. Declined to make a final statement. He didn't say. Yeah, didn't say when you've got the chance. [00:41:08] Speaker B: Right. [00:41:09] Speaker A: Didn't say a word. [00:41:12] Speaker B: Clearly the unknowableness of it was part of the appeal. [00:41:15] Speaker A: The enigma [00:41:18] Speaker B: really wanted to just terrorize people and then leave them with no. No idea why. A sense of the randomness of it. [00:41:26] Speaker A: Yes. Marvo remains in prison after appeals challenged. Is life sentences under the grounds that mandatory kind of life without parole is unconstitutional. That's gonna be for all of the. Yeah, he actually had two of his. Two of his life sentences overturned in 2017. Interesting. [00:41:52] Speaker B: How old was he at the time? [00:41:54] Speaker A: Very good question. [00:41:57] Speaker B: I guess, like, was he. Was he well, of age? [00:42:01] Speaker A: He was born in 85. [00:42:03] Speaker B: This is 17 at the time. Same age. [00:42:06] Speaker A: Yes. Isn't that a detail? [00:42:10] Speaker B: Yeah. So he wasn't, you know, he's under 18. But obviously with the severity of the crimes. They try you as an adult when you're that age. [00:42:21] Speaker A: But appeal or not, he remains in prison. Interesting footnote. The shop that they stole the rifle from, Bullseye Shooter supply, was the target of a lawsuit brought by the Brady center to prevent gun violence. Lock up your guns. And they were. They ended up paying two and a half million out of court in 2004. So there you go. [00:42:51] Speaker B: Well, that's good. Glad to. Glad to hear that, you know, but what a bizarre story. And it really does, like, you know, I remember when they were caught and all that kind of stuff obvious since I had that, like, recollection of the, like, father, son is relationship there and, you know, all that kind of stuff. And just, I mean, I think it really does get to. When you ask about what it felt like in America post 9, 11, I think it's that generalized fear that this really, like, brings to light, right? Like, is this sense that, like, you're never safe, like, and on. Not just in the way that we talk about it on Joag, but in, like, a very. There is a violent element to society right now, and people are angry and they don't know where to take that. And, you know, culture has. Has aimed it at some of the most vulnerable, you know, often at women at kids in schools. Like, obviously, like, Columbine was 99, right? And then, like, there were a few, like, other school shootings kind of after that. I think there was like, Paducah, Kentucky. There was like, Santee, San Diego. There were, like, a couple of those kinds of things, but it wasn't like, where we get, like, this constantly happening, but you're just, like, seeing this. This constant of violence happening in society. And then you, like, see, right, the pictures that came out of, like, Abu Ghraib and things like that, right? Like, Americans torturing people and, like, reveling in humiliating them and stuff like that. That it was just like the sense of violence in. That permeated everything at the time, was like, very real and very scary. Just kind of this sense that, yeah, anywhere you go, there's like, someone could potentially harm you just out of. [00:44:50] Speaker A: Even when you are not in rage necessarily in harm's way, when you're mowing the lawn, when you're going shopping, when you're getting papa. [00:44:57] Speaker B: And I still, like. I think, you know, that sticks with you. I still sometimes have that thought, like when I'm walking the dog and, like, someone is driving their car too slow or something like that, that I, like, tense up and I'm like, what? Why are they doing that? Are they going to shoot me? Something like that. Like, it definitely. That gets awful. [00:45:15] Speaker A: You really think that, that. That happens to you, that all the time? [00:45:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, if I'm walking and, like, someone starts driving too slowly next to me, I'd, like, start trying to think, like, what would I do if they had a gun in this situation? Like, is there anything I could do to. To get out of the way of that? As I'M walking my dog here. [00:45:35] Speaker A: That's not good. That can't be good if you're. You're walking around internalizing that anxiety at some level. [00:45:40] Speaker B: Always. Yeah. It's like. It's not a thing that I'm conscious of all the time, but then when it, like, springs up like that, it's like. Yeah, I guess that's a latent feeling that, you know, I have. It's a weird, but look, weird era to be your formative years. [00:45:59] Speaker A: Very much so, yes. And when I say, as I repeatedly have over the years, you are not safe. This is exactly what I talk about. You're not safe externally. You're not safe from your own body. [00:46:15] Speaker B: Right. [00:46:16] Speaker A: You aren't safe from the whims of a government on the other side of the world. You're not safe from the fucking corporations you give your money to. You're not safe from the people, the law enforcement that ostensibly is there to protect you. You are not safe. Safety is a fucking lie. True. Just waiting to be disproved from any fucking number of hostile inbound vectors. [00:46:42] Speaker B: Yeah. But on the other hand, can't live like that. Yeah. [00:46:48] Speaker A: Let me quote directly from my notes, if I may. [00:46:51] Speaker B: Yes, please do. [00:46:52] Speaker A: Fucking look at these nerds. Oh, mise en scene. [00:46:56] Speaker B: I don't think anyone has ever said mise en scene in such a horny way before. [00:47:00] Speaker A: The way I whispered the word sex [00:47:01] Speaker B: cannibal received worst comes to worst. Mark, I'm willing to guillotine you for science. [00:47:06] Speaker A: Thank you. That's really, really sweet. It's cold outside, but my pancreas is talking to me. I'm fucking. I'm gonna leg it. [00:47:12] Speaker B: You know how I feel about that, Mark. [00:47:15] Speaker A: I think you feel great about it. [00:47:19] Speaker B: Take it. [00:47:19] Speaker A: I'll talk for a little bit. Shall I talk for a little bit? [00:47:21] Speaker B: I love if you talk for a little bit. Yeah, I'm into that. [00:47:25] Speaker A: Let's see. I'll tell you what I've been doing. Okay, I. I do. I've been scrolling on my device. You have to do that. [00:47:34] Speaker B: I try to avoid it, but. Yeah. No, you like to do that. [00:47:37] Speaker A: You scroll from one thing to the other. [00:47:38] Speaker B: Do a little scrolly scroll, I think. [00:47:40] Speaker A: Have you heard it called doom scrolling? Have you heard of that? That's when. [00:47:44] Speaker B: Sounds familiar. Yeah. [00:47:45] Speaker A: This is how I understand. That's when you scroll and everything you're seeing amplifies the kind of anxiety and the dread that you've got. But you carry on because it rustles up a little bit of endorphins. So you carry on scrolling, but it's making things worse. Doom scrolling. That's what they call it, isn't it? [00:48:03] Speaker B: I had one of those days like a week ago of like where everything I read was like getting my blood pressure up and I was like, I'm going to play Hades. Not going to do this anymore. [00:48:16] Speaker A: Recently, Right. Something I want to share and ask you recently I. Whilst I'll call it what I like to call doom scrolling. Right, sure. [00:48:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:26] Speaker A: I came across a meme or I think I'm. I think I've heard them called memes. Do you know about the memes? [00:48:33] Speaker B: A Mimi. [00:48:34] Speaker A: Do you know about these? [00:48:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I've heard. [00:48:37] Speaker A: Just for. [00:48:38] Speaker B: No idea where this is going. Yeah, go on. [00:48:41] Speaker A: What these, what these are, is like a picture with words on it, with a sentence on it, a phrase on it. And you put the words on the picture and you share it onto your feed so that the people who then see the meme will read the words and think the thing. [00:49:01] Speaker B: They'll know that you actually, Marco, I think what you're talking about is an image macro, not a meme. [00:49:07] Speaker A: I see. Well, a meme is obviously a corruption of the term memetic, which is a self replicating idea, right? [00:49:12] Speaker B: Yes. [00:49:13] Speaker A: Bastardized and mutated. And that's not what we understand by a meme. It's a shame, but this is where we are. But that's not the point. [00:49:20] Speaker B: Yes. [00:49:20] Speaker A: The meme, Corrigan. Do you know what it said? [00:49:23] Speaker B: What did it say? [00:49:24] Speaker A: It said, I wish there was a way of knowing when you were living [00:49:34] Speaker B: the good old days. Hey, is that. Is that from a movie? [00:49:41] Speaker A: I don't know. I don't know. I feel like it is some way of knowing when you were living in the good old days. [00:49:48] Speaker B: I feel like there's. It's like a kid in a movie who says it. I wish. Ah, I wrote I wish there and the first thing that came up was I wish. There's a way to know you're in the good old days. Oh, it's. It's Andy in the office. That's what it was. [00:50:07] Speaker A: Okay. All right. Owen would have known that. Owen would have known. [00:50:10] Speaker B: Yeah, he would have. He would have. On top of it, I was like, I know that this is. And the reason I was thinking as a little kid is he's in his dumb little bow tie or whatever. So there you go. But anyways, go on. [00:50:20] Speaker A: But it. It, Corrigan, it made me think and it leads me to ask Corrigan listeners if someone were to say to you, corey, when were the good old days? [00:50:30] Speaker B: What would you say? Personally or societally? [00:50:36] Speaker A: Go broad, I don't care. When, when were your good old days? [00:50:42] Speaker B: I don't know. I think I'm in them to an extent that, you know. [00:50:46] Speaker A: Heartwarming. [00:50:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Like. But again that's a personal, not a societal good old days. But I think it's funny because it's not a quote I super relate to because I think I am a very in the moment person, you know, Like I think I'm pretty aware of when things are really good and I like sit and I marinate in something being. [00:51:10] Speaker A: You're good at drinking it in. You're good at. Yeah, like this is experiencing the here and now. [00:51:15] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm literally the person who like if you were watching me walk my dog, like you'll see me pause every now and then and like take a really long sniff of the air, like, oh, that's really good. [00:51:25] Speaker A: That, that's mindfulness. That is presence. [00:51:28] Speaker B: So I don't, I don't think I. Yeah, it's not a quote that I relate to. I like the sentiment or whatever but like it's not one I relate to. What about you? [00:51:37] Speaker A: Okay. What about me? Well, I can, I mean, look, there is a particular time in my life that I pine for. Right? [00:51:44] Speaker B: Okay. [00:51:45] Speaker A: There is a particular group of old crew of mine, my old friends that I yearn for that I'm wistful for. I can tell you about them if you please. Yeah, they were just. Honestly, Corrigan, these, these were the best days. Me, just a small but tight knit group of. Of friends. Just think of some names. There was me, Hannibal the Faceman. Howlin Mad Murdoch, we'd call him and BA Ba Baracka. Right? And I'll tell you what we do. [00:52:26] Speaker B: They're just a little bit of a, you know, we were a team. [00:52:29] Speaker A: We were a team, right? And what we would do is we just. All right, we'd. We'd get into some scrapes but all we wanted to do was help and we would travel and we were, we. Now that I think back on it, we were homeless. We would all sleep in a van, I think. And we would go from state to state and town to town helping people out, you know, offering a little bit of muscle where it was needed. And it was often trouble. We would often, you know, rub the local law enforcement the wrong way, but we didn't care. We were just trying to help. It was, it's the strangest thing, right? It was the strangest thing. We'd often find that we would. It would be necessitated for us to travel around by aircraft or helicopter or light aircraft. Right? [00:53:26] Speaker B: What's great about this bit right now is that I am too young to understand any of it. Like, I know who these. I know what the A team is. But everything past that. [00:53:38] Speaker A: No, no, no, no, no. [00:53:39] Speaker B: No idea what you're talking about. [00:53:41] Speaker A: We would often have to travel by aircraft, right? Light, Light airplane, helicopter. [00:53:47] Speaker B: But the funniest I'm learning here. [00:53:49] Speaker A: Yeah, funniest thing. BA Hated it. He absolutely hated to drive to. To travel by light aircraft. I am not getting on that airplane, he would say. You know what I mean? Or words. Yeah, he hated it. Hated it. But Corrigan, strangest thing. You love to drink milk, right? BA Absolutely fucking loved a glass of milk. And again, I think back on it and it just seems very unusual. But at the time, we had a seemingly unlimited and on demand supply of GHB gamma hydroxybutyrate. Strangest thing. We always seem to be able to rustle some of that up. So whenever it became necessary, whenever it became apparent that we were going to need to travel via a light aircraft or a helicopter, we would get a glass of milk and we would put a kind of a borderline fatal dose of GHB in the milk. [00:54:54] Speaker B: Right. Is this actually a plot point? [00:54:58] Speaker A: Right. And BA would go, I'm not getting on that airplane. Or words to that effect. We would offer him a glass of milk and be milk. He would drink the milk laced with a near fatal dose of ghb. And Corrigan, the funniest thing, he would immediately lose consciousness. Right. [00:55:15] Speaker B: He [00:55:18] Speaker A: hit the fucking deck. Gone. And that would allow us to put him on the plane. Happy days. So when I'm scrolling and I see a meme like that, I think about my friends in the A team and the great days that we had. [00:55:38] Speaker B: What? [00:55:40] Speaker A: Okay, [00:55:44] Speaker B: one of your more out there bits. [00:55:47] Speaker A: I know. [00:55:52] Speaker B: Okay, I'll allow it. [00:55:54] Speaker A: How are you anyway? Welcome to Jack of All Graves. Welcome to Jack of All Graves. It's another week, isn't it? Another week full of opportunities. Don't turn them into regrets, listeners. Seize the day. Carpet diem. Be like Corrigan walking. Walt. [00:56:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Sniff the air. [00:56:12] Speaker A: Sniff the air. Sniff a flower. Panic that you're about to get shot by a passerby. [00:56:16] Speaker B: You know Walt sniffs flowers. It makes me smile every time he does it. [00:56:20] Speaker A: Dogs have mega, mega noses, don't they? [00:56:23] Speaker B: They do, but I like that. Like, because, you know, you'd think, like, you just give like the whole thing a sniff. Check Check the vibe. But he doesn't. He goes up and he like will like smell a tulip, like, that's nice, [00:56:34] Speaker A: you know, Go away. When I went to the Philippines, I. There was a guy in our, in our team that was a absolute fanny, right? What a complete fanny. He had like a fancy camera, right? [00:56:48] Speaker B: Sure. [00:56:49] Speaker A: And we'd be talking about work and doing work and he'd just be off taking a fucking photo of some a. Or whatever. What a dick. He was a dick. He was a dick. [00:57:01] Speaker B: Because of that or for second reasons, [00:57:03] Speaker A: I'll tell you this. Big Christian, Big Christian, right? [00:57:07] Speaker B: Okay. [00:57:08] Speaker A: And I shit you not, has a bumper sticker on his car. Well, it's in the, in the back. In the back window. Window stick in the back of his car. And I know because I've seen the sticker since I've got back from the Philippines, years back. And you know what that sticker says? Check this out. Burn rubber, not your soul, if you can believe that. [00:57:31] Speaker B: Classic. Oh man, that was. Listen, if we're talking good old days, the like ought 90s aughts and Christian like bumper stickers, T shirts, all that kind of stuff. Like I had like a Reese's, like, you know, like Reese's peanut butter cups, but it said Jesus across it. [00:57:52] Speaker A: Just the word Jesus in the Reese's, [00:57:54] Speaker B: Jesus in the Reese's thing. And another one that was like Hot Wheels, but I don't remember what it said in it. And I gave it to somebody else at some point. But like, oh man, there was a point at which those phrases were everywhere. [00:58:09] Speaker A: Are you aware of Songs of Praise? If I were to say Songs of Praise, would you know what I mean by Songs of Praise? It's a show. I, I actually don't know if it's still a thing anymore, but it certainly was recently a show that would go out on a Sunday on BBC that was. They would go around the country to various churches and spend time in the churches and it would be just basically televised hymns. [00:58:30] Speaker B: Okay. [00:58:31] Speaker A: Yeah, right. You'd have choirs singing hymns. The churches, hey, that's interesting. Every church would be full packed. Yeah, I did the, you know, did the word get around on WhatsApp? The songs of Praise were coming this week because the churches were always packed. And I will always, to my dying day, remember the guy I once saw on an episode of Songs of Praise in a white T shirt, you know, with the, the blue square with the F. The Facebook logo. [00:58:59] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Yep, yep, yep. [00:59:00] Speaker A: But Corrigan, it said Facebook. How good is that? [00:59:05] Speaker B: Classic. Oh, so Clever. Oh my God. This comes from like a period where it was like this constant thing about like there was like kind of two camps when it came to like media and Christians, which was like, there was the one camp that was like, we need to like not be a part of like the world, right? Like, we don't, we don't engage with, with their popular culture or anything like that. Then there was another camp that was like, we just need to make our version of it. [00:59:38] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes. [00:59:39] Speaker B: And so like all of this kind of stuff came out of this like very like weird self conscious moment in Christianity, like evangelical Christianity where it was like, we just need like, if we look cool enough, then people will like come running. So if we can like take their shit and like rebrand it into our shit, that's going to be like, now we look like them, you know, we want to be in the world and not of the world. Like so like we're just going to blend in. [01:00:07] Speaker A: You'll, you'll know that. I have a T shirt, one of my favorite shirts, in fact, that simply says on the front it's a black shirt in big red letters, big red letters. Extremely spiritual. Right? It is. The shirt is a bit, the entire shirt is a bit. I am not. Yet I have realized that others don't realize it's a bit. And I've worn that shirt out and about and I've worn it to the gym and I catch looks, man, I catch looks off people when I've got that shirt on. They kind of, they got just half a second longer than they'd normally regard. There's a freak. [01:00:40] Speaker B: Yeah, what's his deal? [01:00:42] Speaker A: And I don't enjoy it, so I tend to just wear it privately now. The other funny, the other shirt I want to mention has nothing to do with religion, but it was so great and I wish I'd bought it because I often think of this shirt and you know the UPS vans, You see the brown UPS van with the UPS logo? [01:01:01] Speaker B: Yes, of course, yes. [01:01:03] Speaker A: It was a shirt in UPS brown that had the UPS badge on it and the UPS logo, but instead of saying ups, it had reversed two of the letters and it said Sup? [01:01:19] Speaker B: That's pretty dumb. I like it. [01:01:22] Speaker A: Perfect. And I, and I. If I saw that shirt now, I would buy it in a heartbeat. But I didn't at the time. It's the one that got away. [01:01:31] Speaker B: That's a sad story, Mark. [01:01:33] Speaker A: Yeah, well, listen, it's Jack All Graves. [01:01:36] Speaker B: It's a good point. [01:01:37] Speaker A: What am I gonna tell you? [01:01:41] Speaker B: I like where your head is today. It's very weird. [01:01:45] Speaker A: It's been that kind of week in the British Isles. In the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. [01:01:51] Speaker B: It's been a weird one, huh? [01:01:54] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean we have to talk about it. It's good. It's fascinating. Fascinating. [01:01:59] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm very, it's my. Well just to, I mean to go back to a conversation we had like a week or two ago on here where we were talking about that like the special relationship thing and how it's kind of a one sided thing and like not a thing that over here we talk about at all. And even actually when like King Charles was here a couple weeks ago, I don't even think he used that phrase. No, while he was here he did say something about the really like the relationship between us but not the special relationship as he as is usually deployed. But anyway, I think it's really fascinating with that in mind that like there has been zero coverage of what has gone on in your country. No, I know if I were watching a 24 hour network there probably would be at least some mention of it. But like on regular news, right, for [01:02:50] Speaker A: the benefit, for the benefit of our non British audience, right, There is zero reason why our local council elections should garner any interest outside of Ukraine. [01:03:03] Speaker B: I don't think that's true. I don't think that's true because any other year. [01:03:07] Speaker A: Oh, well, put it like this. Has our local council elections ever made the fucking news anywhere outside the uk? [01:03:13] Speaker B: Yeah, that's more. What I mean is not necessarily that they should like, you know, like a New York. I was about say a New York election but obviously that did make world news. Yes. The Mayor of New York, everybody knows who he is, but like, yeah, on a normal regular, just to set the [01:03:29] Speaker A: scene, right, the local elections are not in any way newsworthy. All they should, all they are is communities voting for their local council which takes out their bins and fucking, you know, fixes their infrastructure and administers their, you know, their local services. It is provincial and it is of no interest at all outside of the uk. [01:03:57] Speaker B: Right, right. Except how it is this time. [01:04:02] Speaker A: However, I very clearly, not just me, but other pundits also said. Other pundits, other commenters, other. [01:04:15] Speaker B: No, I just think it's funny that you, you put it that way. [01:04:18] Speaker A: You know, all you gotta do is you just gotta want it bad enough. [01:04:21] Speaker B: Right, yeah, sure. Well that's a good point. [01:04:23] Speaker A: All right. I think it was me who said originally that when Labour won that last election with that fucking Massive landslide. They didn't win it because people were voting for Labor. They vote. They won it because people were fucking sick of the Basta Tories. Right? That is the only reason they got the fucking majority. They did. It was a protest vote. That's all it was. [01:04:42] Speaker B: Same thing when Biden won. [01:04:44] Speaker A: Bang on. Bang on. [01:04:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:04:46] Speaker A: But fascinatingly, the local council elections that have taken place this last week have represented not just a complete. What's the word? Repudiation of that majority. [01:05:01] Speaker B: Right. [01:05:02] Speaker A: But it has. For the first time in my Life, right. My 47 years on this fucking planet, it has been a binary democracy here in the uk. If Labour aren't in power, the Tories are in power. If the Tories aren't in power, labor in power. It's one of two. [01:05:20] Speaker B: Right. [01:05:21] Speaker A: That is completely fucking torn to shreds in the fucking bin. On fire. This council election has obviously the electorate has interpreted it as a chat, as a national election and a chance to nationally comment on their displeasure at the current administration, which is shocking. [01:05:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:50] Speaker A: Our government and our Prime Minister has singularly failed in the almost two years they've been empowered to make any kind of dent on public opinion, to make any kind of impression. [01:06:01] Speaker B: And, well, I think they've made an impression, just not the way they wanted to. [01:06:05] Speaker A: Not, not, not. It is absolutely driven home this point that nobody voted for them, they just ran against the other guys. Right? [01:06:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:16] Speaker A: But here's the fascinating thing for me, or one of the most fascinating things for me, the vote that they have lost this time hasn't automatically gone to the other guys. Right? [01:06:27] Speaker B: Right. Yes. [01:06:28] Speaker A: People disenfranchised with Labour haven't voted Tory, they voted everywhere else. [01:06:35] Speaker B: Right. [01:06:37] Speaker A: All of a sudden, now Greens are in the mix. Reform of, that's the other awful story. Reform of absolutely cleaned up. But the fucking Liberals are in the mix. It's. It's now a five party country. [01:06:54] Speaker B: Yeah. A thing we're always told can't happen. [01:06:58] Speaker A: Fucking right. Yes. [01:07:00] Speaker B: Yeah. You have to vote for one of the big ones. Those are just the rules. [01:07:03] Speaker A: Otherwise. Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. But that has happened this week and it's been, you know, suggested for, you know, for local elections for the past couple years, that, hey, maybe we might be seeing this happening. Da, da, da, da. But it just take, take the rule book, Corey. Rip it up. Right? They're gonna need to write a new one. Incredible scenes. Absolutely awful scenes at the same time, Right? [01:07:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:07:35] Speaker A: Because unless something fucking very seismic happens in the next couple of years, our next government will be the furthest fucking right it has ever been post war, you know what I mean? In my lifetime, in any lifetimes, of anyone still breathing, right, this would be the most far right government in any of our lifetimes. [01:08:01] Speaker B: And to say that considering Thatcher was in your lifetime, that's saying a lot. [01:08:05] Speaker A: Indeed, yes, indeed. A party which currently is staffed of ex Tories. Very recently ex Tories, people just left the Conservative Party and, and you know, got on the horse that looked as though it had a chance of winning. Disgusting. Craven power, courting behavior. Disgusting. Lowest of the low, degenerate filth. But that, that, that degenerate filth looks as though it's, it's very much going to be our next government, which is incredible. And like I said, unless something right, which hey, based on current events, yeah, [01:08:47] Speaker B: I mean you can't count it out at this point that there could be a huge change. [01:08:52] Speaker A: What's that? Is it Couchy? Is that you can bet on anything that that fucking company. Is that what it is? [01:08:56] Speaker B: Something like that, yeah. [01:08:58] Speaker A: I might go on there and just vote for something unusual, Something weird happens, something nobody sees coming. Unless that happens in the next couple of years, we're in for dark times. But using the patented Lewis prognostication algorithm, it's a pretty safe bet that that's what's in our future. [01:09:15] Speaker B: It's just wild to me that like, I mean scapegoating is just such. And like propaganda are just so powerful, you know, and obviously like, you know, more so I think in, in your media, media environment even than ours, there's like, it's such a concentrated amount of propaganda that is like deeply anti anything to the left and that like allows people to. I don't know that. It's just like when you look at the world, especially America, which a lot of these like reform dudes seem to think is like something to emulate. Like how do you look at how we're like destroying the planet and just destabilizing everything and go like, if we did that here. Yeah, that would work. That would definitely work. Like, listen, we'll do what they're doing, you know, we need our own ice. We'll get the small boats out of here or whatever and like it's gonna be great. And it's like, look at the. Are you serious? Yeah, the. This is not working. [01:10:24] Speaker A: How. But I mean, 15 years ago you could never have predicted what would come to pass. Ten years ago you could never predicted what has come to pass. [01:10:35] Speaker B: Yep. [01:10:37] Speaker A: And the headlines that reform use are obviously just cliffs notes, but they Are the headlines of what their supporters have, will, will see as successes in your country. The immigration rate plummeting. You know, the, the. Not to want to speak for a reform voter, but I can imagine pictures of masked up body armor wearing zip ties hanging off their belts, thugs marching, you know, people of a different color to me, out of their houses. [01:11:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:11:20] Speaker A: With their, with their arms cuffed behind their back. They are signs of somebody doing a good job. They are signs of somebody taking action. [01:11:29] Speaker B: I get that. And not in a way that I understand bigots, but in that, like, I can see how you'd see that if you were a giant racist and go like, yeah, that's what I want. But you have to look at the. [01:11:40] Speaker A: Everything that somebody who can get that done over here. [01:11:42] Speaker B: Right. Like, yeah, you can see we've got these fucking Nazis who are kidnapping people and leaving them for dead or shooting. Shooting white people in the streets. You know, things like that. Fine. And you love that. Right. Also, the gas is $7. You know, also there are part of this country that don't have clean water. Like, well, yeah, there's this. Our grocery bills are going up by like exponential amounts. Our lives are worse. [01:12:17] Speaker A: But I mean, you know, speaking there to one of the reasons why the vote is so fudgeing fractured and the political situation over here is so febrile. Because that's us too, right? Not, not, not so much the, the, you know, the shooting white people in the clean water bit. But this is a fucking expensive country, man. [01:12:40] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. [01:12:41] Speaker A: And it's great. [01:12:43] Speaker B: The solutions, you know, it's like. And I like listening. I understand. Like, because our country is the same way, obviously. [01:12:50] Speaker A: Yep. [01:12:51] Speaker B: It's a bewilderment across the board that people are so willing to scapegoat people who clearly have nothing to do with the problem. [01:13:01] Speaker A: The playbook. The playbook is in for effect. [01:13:03] Speaker B: Right. And it's like, how do you just allow this? How do you, how do you let your brain get so warped that like, you will, you will live worse. Your life will measurably be worse. It'll be worse than it already is. Right. Those bills are high, but they're going to get higher. You know, Like, I, I mean, [01:13:29] Speaker A: is. Is what has happened here over the past week a symptom of just a wholesale rejection of the current way of doing things? The current way of doing things. Something that we saw. I firmly believe that's why Brexit happened. People were just, I don't like the way things are. Let's fucking rip it up and do something different. Yeah, exactly. Labor have drifted into the center. Right? You know what I mean? [01:13:58] Speaker B: Absolutely, yeah. [01:14:00] Speaker A: Very different. Very difficult to find any real kind of clear a between them and the Tories. It's the same. It's the same. Let's vote for something else. Let's rip it up and do something. [01:14:12] Speaker B: Which is also what happened here. You know, it's the same thought process for people. Like, things got worse in many ways under Biden and so people went, you know what? Like, this isn't working. So, yeah, tear the whole thing up. Let's. Let's see what Trump can do. Even though we'd already been through this and it sucked then too. But it's such like a. It's just such immature thinking to just think. And I saw like, you know, there's been a couple people in like Welsh Facebook groups and stuff like that who've posted like, oh, I'm so happy that, like, you know, Plaid got the majority and all this stuff. And then there's always these people in the comments, you know, not, not as many, but, you know, there are people in the comments who are, you know, like, just being like, oh, we should have, you know, it's just gonna be more of the same and things like that. You know, I voted reform because we need to just. We just need to break it and fix it again and things like that. It's like, that's not. When has that ever worked, you know, [01:15:10] Speaker A: in the interest of, in the interest of trying. In the interest of empathy. Right. I absolutely agree that it's an immature mindset. [01:15:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:15:23] Speaker A: In the interest of trying to find some empathy. However, the. Just off the top of my head, we've got some of the highest rates of drug deaths anywhere in Europe. [01:15:37] Speaker B: Sure. [01:15:37] Speaker A: There are areas of Wales that are as impoverished as anywhere you could care to mention Scotland. There are huge areas of absolute degradation and poverty. [01:15:50] Speaker B: And it's due to right wing policy. [01:15:53] Speaker A: Oh, listen, it's due to the bastard Tories. [01:15:58] Speaker B: If you really want to cause this, it's the Labor Party, Right. Like, you know, it's. It's years and years and it's. I think people understood that like under Thatcher that, like, it, you know, people really started to build up that host of hostility towards her and towards that right wing kind of thinking. And it's. I guess that's what's bonkers to me is like to see something within a generation. Like people just forgot that that's how this started, you know, like, it's Reaganism here, it's Thatcherism, like Notion that anyone [01:16:32] Speaker A: within Wales would vote for the bastard Tories is incredible to me. [01:16:39] Speaker B: You know, it's been a hundred years of labor rule in, in Wales and this is the first time that they are not in charge there. [01:16:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:50] Speaker B: And it's just, I don't know, I just find it all like when it comes to breaking it, you have to have like then a party in charge that has a plan to fix it that is realistic. And I think that's the thing, I understand the wanting to break it. Right. Like obviously I do get that, like we have a two party system here that does not work and our Democrats are center right to right here too, you know, but it's like then you have to properly diagnose the problem. Right. Is the problem is those politicians and it's the people who are paying those politicians to vote against our interests and things like that. The problem is not the brown people coming from the countries that our countries have destabilized. [01:17:39] Speaker A: Well, yes, I know that. You know that. [01:17:40] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean it's just a rant here, but it's just what is so bonkers to me about seeing results like reform cleaning up over there is just being like, you need to, you need to think more about what the problem is and who's making your bills go up. You need, you need to actually practically think about that. And then what those people who you are voting into power want to do in order to allegedly fix things, which is take away your health care and shit like that. [01:18:10] Speaker A: Hence populism. Hence, yeah. Why it is such fertile ground at the minute the time is right for it, the people are ready for it. Things have been bad enough for long enough. It's the right fucking time to drop that. It's the right time to sprinkle that. Turn people against their neighbor. Flight of hand and distraction. [01:18:34] Speaker B: Exactly. [01:18:34] Speaker A: Look what's happening over there. There's no brown people coming over there anymore, is there? [01:18:39] Speaker B: Look at that. [01:18:40] Speaker A: Look what they're doing. [01:18:40] Speaker B: It's the transes that are taking the women's rights. It's not us voting them away. Like you just don't want to think people are that easily manipulated, you know, [01:18:55] Speaker A: Again, I'm trying to be. I'm trying to be empathy boy. Right? And I'm also looking at where people are getting their info from. I'm looking at a capitalist social media driven landscape which generates dopamine in your limbic system and your nervous system for your time. [01:19:19] Speaker B: But we have the same social media. This is the thing that has always been my ideal and Think about this coming from someone who went to Christian school, right, where most people were Republican. I can deal with, you know, your dumbass ideas about how the economy should work or whatever. Right. Like, if you think capitalism is the best system, you're fucking deluded. But, like, fine, whatever. And I can have empathy for the fact that you've been tricked into voting against your interest in that way. I cannot have empathy for scapegoating minorities that. Because I had the same propaganda. [01:19:59] Speaker A: No one is asking, you know. [01:20:00] Speaker B: Right. But I mean, just to, like, to your point where, like, I get why you're trying to be empathetic and, like, see this other side, but I was fed the same propaganda in spades in a school full of people trying to teach me to be that way. But I'm not a bad person, and thus it can't penetrate me, you know, [01:20:20] Speaker A: That, I guess, is. Is the beginning and end of my empathy here. I. Right, am open to believing that people have been tricked. Not that everyone is voting that way out of malice. [01:20:36] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. [01:20:37] Speaker A: However, that only goes so far, of course. [01:20:40] Speaker B: Exactly. And I get that part, you know, it's like, not everyone. I mean, someone was talking about this on Blue sky recently, but, like, we do have to account for the fact that some people simply aren't paying attention. Some people are dumb. You know, Some people have no clue they're voting for a thing because they're like, oh, someone told me that they were gonna, you know, fix this, and they have no sense of, like. Also, they said they were going to, like, you know. [01:21:09] Speaker A: Oh, wait. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Stop. You stop. You stop. You. My garage mind has stopped for some reason. [01:21:13] Speaker B: Oh, that's. I'm gonna use the zoom audio. Zoom audio. Because there are birds in my air conditioner. So it's fine. [01:21:21] Speaker A: I'll start recording Anyway. Again. A 1 hour 21. Start again. [01:21:27] Speaker B: Anyway, it's fine. I'm just gonna use the same audio. Don't worry about it. But what was I saying? [01:21:35] Speaker A: There are birds in your air conditioner. [01:21:37] Speaker B: Not. Not the birds in the air conditioner. People who, like, just genuinely have no clue about, like, the, like, really terrible things that people are saying. And I make room for that. That reality that there are some folks who. It's like, if you ask them a single policy or things like that, they'd have zero clue what anyone stands for. And fine. But it is. The more, you know, the people who know what they're voting for and they are voting for the cruelty are the ones that I'm. I simply refuse to have empathy for. [01:22:10] Speaker A: Well, the best case scenario for me now, in between the next general election and now, is that reform make such an absolute unholy clusterfuck of local government in the next two years that, you know, they are shown and spotlighted as the parade of clowns that they are. [01:22:34] Speaker B: And yeah, when they do up your bin collection and things like that, because they decide source it to somebody. Right, yeah. Then you're going to go, oh, this was not just not the right way. Now is your, your Prime Minister about to resign? Is he done? Over the past, you know, hour or so that we've been sitting here, okay, [01:22:54] Speaker A: so it's been a widely held belief amongst, you know, nobody greater than myself, I've been convinced of this, that when these local elections were a shit show for the government, as they were, I was convinced that that would be the kind of the domino, one straw on the back of the camel that would lead to the Prime Minister resigning. That has not been the case so far today. In fact, the election were on Thursday, results on Friday into the weekend. And after it became clear that it was a massacre over the weekend, PM was like, on Monday, I shall give a speech. I shall give a speech. And this speech will reset and will allow us to move forward and learn the lessons of what has just occurred and listen and, and rebuild. So he's done that this morning, right. It has placated no one. [01:23:53] Speaker B: Right. [01:23:54] Speaker A: It has changed not one whit of opinion amongst his party. Clearly, I think I'm right in saying that the threshold to trigger a mutiny, almost a leadership contest within a governing party is 80 names. 80 publicly declared names of ministers who declare no confidence that will trigger a vote or, or, you know, the, the, the process by which a new leader is sought. As I speak right now we're on 70 and they've all happened today. [01:24:29] Speaker B: So why would, in this case, especially when you know you're, you've got this gaining on you, you're at 70, you're 10 from this being automatically triggered. You're the Prime Minister, your party is like, bro, we're done here. What would be the reason for not resigning? [01:24:45] Speaker A: Staying. Okay, so first things first. The party aren't saying, bro, we're done with you, right? The Labour Party has like over many, many, many MPs. Okay, so 70 odd is a tiny, tiny percentage of the party as a whole. Right? That's the first thing I'd like to say. Okay, I also, and I'm choosing my words here and I've settled on hate, okay? I hate the vibe that we all seem to have got that you can just almost scroll through. Prime Ministers. I hate it, man. I'm sick of it. We've had. Because me. Me change it on a. On a national scale. There's got to be something to be said for continuity, right? [01:25:42] Speaker B: Does there just. [01:25:43] Speaker A: Ah, I believe so. I believe so. [01:25:45] Speaker B: Why, like, give me a reason. If there's a Prime Minister who's doing everything wrong and everyone hates him or her, say if you got a trust or something in there, what would be. What would continuity help if, say, Liz Truss right in. [01:26:03] Speaker A: That's a special case, right? This woman was genetically fucking. [01:26:08] Speaker B: Okay, let's. Let's say, you know, it's. Boris, it's. You know, any of these people who have come through, what would have. What would have been better if they stayed? [01:26:21] Speaker A: So let's take our. Let's take the. The current pm. Right. Inherited. And I'll. I. And please don't misconstrue this as saying that I'm supporting Lee, because I'm really not at this point. I'm trying to be. Yeah, I'm trying to be, but I [01:26:37] Speaker B: think I. I disagree on your premise so far, but I want to hear like, more. But it's certainly. I'm not taking it as an endorsement of. [01:26:45] Speaker A: Thank you, please. Because I do not intend it to come over as such, but trying to be as objective as possible. You don't turn around the fortunes of a country who've been under the bastard shit, cunt tories for almost two decades in the space of 18 months. Right? And shuffling out the PM for somebody equally or less qualified after less than two years simply because the news cycle demands it. Simply because. [01:27:25] Speaker B: That's not. Why, is it? [01:27:26] Speaker A: I mean, it's up there. It's one of the reasons. [01:27:28] Speaker B: It's certainly there. [01:27:29] Speaker A: And it's very interesting to me that Ted Turner died this fucking week because this culture of sound bites. Do you condemn the Prime Minister? Should he go? Should the Prime Minister go? MP says Prime Minister should go. Well, that MP has said the Prime Minister. Should he go click, click, click, click, click. You know what I mean? That. I. I absolutely think that the news cycle and the attention, culture and 24 hour rolling news has a lot to do with this current obsession with. They've done this wrong sack and where's the next one? Sack them. Where's the next one? We've had fucking just. We had seven Prime Ministers in the last decade. That is fucking ridiculous. That is ridiculous. [01:28:09] Speaker B: I don't think it is, though. I mean, here's how. And I'm coming at this from like, say there's a lot of this in like in communist thought, right? Is like if the voter, if the, you know, public loses faith in the leader, it is very important that they can be recalled immediately and someone else put in who does the job. I understand the idea that, you know, in 18 months you can't change everything, right? Like, sure. But you have to be working towards changing it. Right? And when you've got a prime minister who amongst his sins, you know, has engaged in a lot of the anti transgender shit that's going on, who has criminalized protesting for people, for Palestinian rights, things like that, and also is not making any progress on the government, another 18 months, you're going to have more people's rights stripped away and you're probably not going to see the change that you want to happen. Like, I see this as a, I wish we had this, I wish that we could be like, fuck this guy, but we can't. [01:29:17] Speaker A: Being objective, right? To say that absolutely zero progress has been made is, I don't mean zero, [01:29:22] Speaker B: but is it enough to balance out taking away so many people's rights and making things worse for so many people? [01:29:30] Speaker A: Listen, I'm not saying it is, but what I don't feel it justifies is I think this there, I, I feel there has to be continuity of leadership if. Why? Because the next fucking PM is going to have a different agenda to the first. So any meager progress that might have been made is in jeopardy. That puts the government elected, though. They were. Yeah, sure, but they shouldn't have. [01:29:58] Speaker B: Wildly different. [01:29:59] Speaker A: Oh, their policies, their broad policies would be the same. But right, the key, you know, the, the, the, the headlines, the big agenda items, the big ticket items, they, they, they'll, they'll change with, with successive leaders. Again, take your example of, of the last Tory government and, and the parade of fucking dickheads that, that, that they put in the top job. Priorities changed, cronies changed. You know, it would have been better [01:30:25] Speaker B: if someone stayed longer to do more destruction to their particular area that was their passion of destruction. [01:30:33] Speaker A: It might not have been better, but again, continuity is important. I think that's arbitrary, but I believe you are being arbitrary also. I think the meager progress that has been made is you may as well just tear it up. [01:30:54] Speaker B: So you, you think whoever they're going to put in there, whoever labor decides to put in, in his place is going to go back and undo everything he did. You don't think that they have anything in Common with his, his ideas as it. [01:31:10] Speaker A: Who's to say? I don't fucking know. I don't know who the next PM is going to be. [01:31:14] Speaker B: Right, so what. So then I. [01:31:15] Speaker A: Maybe this does stink a little bit of better the devil you know. [01:31:18] Speaker B: Yeah. I think that's kind of what it comes down to is like, well, I'm used to this guy. At least I understand it's predictable the bad he's going to do. [01:31:28] Speaker A: But perhaps this is, this is, perhaps this is the establishment working on me. [01:31:34] Speaker B: Right. [01:31:35] Speaker A: But as a, as a, as a fucking source of leadership and stability and continuity. It's always been instilled in me that the Prime Minister is, is, is exactly that is the fucking nation's figurehead in a far more meaningful way than any, Any royal. [01:31:57] Speaker B: Sure. [01:31:58] Speaker A: And is it not symptomatic of a country that is fragmented as fuck, though we can't seem to go a year with, with, with a stable Prime Minister. That's nuts to me. [01:32:11] Speaker B: I think that, I think you're right. I think it does speak to that. I just also think that that ultimately is a. Is. It's good to see the instability manifest that way because clearly the problem is that the people that you're putting in charge are not good enough. And the search is for someone who is good enough and who actually does something for the people. And I think that's the problem here, is that we get stuck. You know, there's nothing that you can like change. Right. Like the Democrats don't want to impeach Trump. They're not interested in doing that. [01:32:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:32:44] Speaker B: And we kind of. There's no culture of going, you know, the. Everyone has lost faith in me. I resign. That's just simply not a thing here. And from a perspective of actually wanting good leadership and not just the, the facade of stability in an instability in stable world. Which is what I see that as like, yes, you could keep the same guy for the. To make you feel a little better about the instability, but it would still be unstable. It would just have the same face on the instability as opposed to the opportunity to work your way into something that's better. If they ever decided, okay, let's pick someone who isn't going to this up poorly and let's try to respond to what people want. You might get a Prime minister that stays, but until such a time as someone meets the moment, then fuck it, get them out of there. Because it is, it's fake, just like the President. It's a figurehead. [01:33:43] Speaker A: Listen, I don't disagree with a Word you've said, by and large, but word of the fact that the vote that we've just. That we've just seen in the UK was a direct response to. To his rolling back of trans rights or any of the fucking, you know, the, the boners he's pulled in the last, you know, year and change. Yeah, all right, hit the bricks. But it isn't. No one voted reform based on labor's mishandling. [01:34:13] Speaker B: But again, that's the same reason that we keep getting stuck with the Democrats. Right? It's like, well, you know, there's enough transphobic people and stuff like that. They're not worried about it. You know, it's not a big deal. So we might as well stick with these who aren't going to do anything for us because you know better. The devil you know. And it's like, no, they're not going to make any progress for us, but we can keep telling ourselves, like, well, the right wing is, you know, they're transphobic, they're. They hate minorities, things like that. So it's in our best interest to keep the guy who speaks to their interests instead of the people who speak to ours. You know, we. That's not what you. That's never gonna work. That's how you end up with more reformed people, Right, If. Because they're never gonna choose labor, they're never gonna choose the guy who hates the same people as them but says he's a liberal. That's not gonna happen. They're gonna choose the people who hate the same people and say they're a conservative. [01:35:14] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Again, I don't broadly disagree with anything you're saying. I mean, I would also suggest that the more time is spent, like I hate talking about the pod on the pod, right. The more time that my government spends about talking about itself is wasted. Time is dead. Time when fuck all is happening. [01:35:38] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, that's all that's fair. [01:35:41] Speaker A: But on the other hand, Corrigan, on the other hand, I love it as well. Right. May you live in interesting times. Both blessing and curse. I enjoy the shit out of this. [01:35:52] Speaker B: I don't. Except for the, you know, possibilities that there are, you know, that there could be something better because people are so clearly fed up, you know, if people can start placing their concerns where they should be and it's not an impossible task. But, boy, there's a lot. There's a lot of money working against it, that's for sure. [01:36:19] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes. [01:36:21] Speaker B: Anyways, so that's what's happening. [01:36:23] Speaker A: That's what's going on over here. [01:36:24] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I, I. [01:36:26] Speaker A: When we, when we record Joe, I like to imagine that we've got a listener here on the sofa with me watching us argue, and I include them in the conversation. I know it's just you and I on the Zoom call, but I've got a listener here with me in the room. [01:36:42] Speaker B: Like it. [01:36:43] Speaker A: And I like to make sure they feel included, and I like to talk, to address them directly every so often, you know? Oh, I am such a skincare girly right now. Do you know about it? [01:36:51] Speaker B: Oh, tell me about it. [01:36:54] Speaker A: So over Christmas, I bought some really posh moisturizer and face wash from Aesop, and, oh, it was lovely. That's ran out, right? [01:37:01] Speaker B: Aesop, that's. David Farrier mentioned this. He was like, you know when you, like, go to, like, a person who has, like, they're not rich, but they have money and they always have Aesop products. And I was like, I have never fucking heard of that. So I guess I'm not at. [01:37:16] Speaker A: Fuck me. It's so good. I had, like, a parsley face wash. [01:37:20] Speaker B: Okay. Parsley. [01:37:22] Speaker A: Parsley. Parsley seed, parsley extract and a parsley moisturizer. And it was so beautiful. But it's ran out, right? So I've gone somewhere else. I've gone to a company called Neil's Yard Remedies. Right? [01:37:34] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [01:37:35] Speaker A: And I've got a wild rosehip. [01:37:38] Speaker B: Anything rose. [01:37:39] Speaker A: I'm in wash. And I've got a. And I've got a wild rosehip moisturizer and a toning lotion that I use a couple of times a week. Oh, my God, my fucking face smells beautiful. My bathroom smells beautiful. I smell beautiful. I'm just a pure skincare girly, and I love it. I'm in my skincare era. [01:37:57] Speaker B: Listen, guys need more of this, right? Because it's one of the, like, just. It's such a good routine just to, like, calm yourself and things like that. Like, every day, Kyo gets a kick out of it, but he doesn't do it himself. He just enjoys, you know, every night it's like I take my shower and then I go and I like, you know, lotion everything and, you know, it's like a routine. And I come to bed smelling amazing and. And it's like, guys, like, don't learn to do this, you know, it's like, oh, it's not supposed to be masculine to have a skincare routine, but it's so. It's such a perfect way to unwind. [01:38:31] Speaker A: It's empowering. And the. When I walked into Neil's Yard Remedies in Oxford last week and I approached directly approached the counter and I asked the lady who was buying the counter, I'd really like a face wash. What can you recommend? And we talked, we talked about it. I said, I don't want anything that's going to strip my skin. I don't want to dry myself out. She was like, oh, no, no, no, no. Come this way. And we try to put a little bit on my hand smell. What an experience. I felt super looked after and I loved it. [01:38:59] Speaker B: Friends, if you, if you are a man who does not do this in our audience or a woman who like, for whatever reason just like never got into it. [01:39:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:39:09] Speaker B: Add it to your routine. You know it is. [01:39:12] Speaker A: Talk about self care. Oh, man. [01:39:15] Speaker B: Yeah, it's the best. Underrated. It seems like a choreography. You're like, oh, I don't want to add this. And then actually it makes your life better. So. [01:39:25] Speaker A: Yep. [01:39:25] Speaker B: Do a skincare routine. You deserve it. [01:39:28] Speaker A: Yeah, it's great. [01:39:31] Speaker B: Thank you for that Interlude, Marco. I like it. [01:39:33] Speaker A: You're welcome. I thought it would be good to just bring the temperature down a little bit. [01:39:37] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. This is the thing we fully agree on is the skincare only. [01:39:42] Speaker A: Only on the award winning six year long podcast Jack of All Graves with Marco and Corrigan. Only here do you get snipers, British politics and skin care Only A team interlude. The A team only. You only get that here. [01:40:05] Speaker B: Only here. [01:40:06] Speaker A: It's admittedly a niche podcast. [01:40:09] Speaker B: It is. [01:40:10] Speaker A: But wildly successful. [01:40:12] Speaker B: That's right. We have accomplished everything that we want. Do we want to talk about what we watched? [01:40:18] Speaker A: Then we'll rattle through these. [01:40:21] Speaker B: Yes, yes. I've been in, I've been in a little bit of a movie mood this week. I have between terms. I always have like a week where it's just like I don't have like a ton to do and I can like take time for myself, you know. So I've been playing a lot of Hades too, which is a blast. Maybe we'll get that on a. Let's play sometime in the next week or two and watching some flicks. So first of all, the new Hell Rankers came out with their tagline now I believe is it comes out when it comes out. [01:40:57] Speaker A: So much respect. [01:41:01] Speaker B: And so their new, their latest one was Friday the 13th and so I listened to that. [01:41:08] Speaker A: It's gonna be a long episode, surely. [01:41:10] Speaker B: It's almost three hours. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a very long one. And my Favorite thing is partway through, Alfie has had two and a half Manhattans and just becomes loopy for the rest of this. [01:41:23] Speaker A: Two and a Half Jason Takes Manhattan's. [01:41:25] Speaker B: Yes. Well, that was the. Yeah, that was exactly. [01:41:28] Speaker A: Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. [01:41:31] Speaker B: But it made me want to watch Friday the 13th Part 6, Jason lives. And so the other night, of course, I revisited Jason Lives, which is great choice. Yeah, just pretty much perfect. [01:41:43] Speaker A: It is fantastic. [01:41:44] Speaker B: Everything that you want out of a horror comedy, especially mid franchise Tommy Jarvis, [01:41:50] Speaker A: you dumb fuck, everything past that film is your fault. [01:41:54] Speaker B: Yeah, bless him. Yeah. His idiocy spawns everything that happens from that point forward. But, yeah, so I watched that and then after I watched it, I was like, I just. I want to watch something ghosty, which is a thing I always want. You know, it goes along with my, like, trying to watch 90s thrillers thing. It's like, it takes me back to a. A different time. [01:42:18] Speaker A: So great. [01:42:19] Speaker B: Jason is great. Listen to that. Listen to the pod people. Hell rankers. And you can hear. [01:42:25] Speaker A: Don't tell me that that shot of maggot e Jason's eye opening in the grave isn't perfect. Just the lightning flashing over it and he's got the maggots open wild. So great. [01:42:38] Speaker B: So good. Yeah. So I was like, going through on letterboxd and looking at people's lists of ghost movies and realizing that I've seen, like, everything that doesn't have, like, one star on there. Like, that is a mildly passable ghost movie. I have watched it at this point. And so I was like, I'm gonna have to go back to something that I know and love. So I Decided to watch 1408 with John Cusack. 2006. [01:43:05] Speaker A: 7. [01:43:07] Speaker B: 2007. I remember I went to see this. He just did the six. Seven. [01:43:15] Speaker A: I'm gonna be the last one doing that. [01:43:18] Speaker B: He said it when there was a 69 before. And I was like, you can't do that. You can't extend that motion into other numbers. [01:43:24] Speaker A: I think it was earlier than 2007. It feels like an earlier film. [01:43:29] Speaker B: It's not, because I went and saw it with my friend Andy the summer between our junior and senior year at Triangle Square in Newport Beach. And I remember that was so that summer we had gone on a road trip through New England and we had seen 28 weeks later there. And we're like on a roll. We came back, we're like more horror movies. And so we went and saw 1408 at triangle scene Square right after that one. And then we tried to go To Dirty Nellie's, the bar afterwards. But andy was only 20 and we got kicked out. So I have a very strong memory of when this movie actually came out. But it's just. I love that movie. And someone in the reviews of it on letterboxd was like, this is kind of the early, you know, like, very clear ghost story as trauma kind of story because it's, you know, about his daughter with cancer and all that kind of stuff. But there's still scary ghosts throughout the whole thing. And I was just thinking. I was like, you know, watching this, which is largely just John Cusack in a room the whole time, I was like, why do I like ghost things so much? You know, I don't believe in ghosts or whatever, you know, things like that. But I think it's like that there's something, like, unknowable about ghosts. You don't know what their boundaries are, what they can and can't do. Like, if they appear, it's like, why is there. What can they do to me? Can they hurt me? You know, just the idea of having a presence in your space that you don't. [01:45:03] Speaker A: That is interesting to me. That is interesting. I. To me, all I see there is just a flimsy conceit that any writer can do whatever they fucking want with. I. Sure, yeah, I like. I like. I like a nice law. I'm fine with vampires. [01:45:21] Speaker B: See, I was gonna say, like, with vampires, werewolves, like, all kinds of things, it's like, there's rules, right? Like. And you can bend them, but, you know, fundamentals, gist of what they can and can't do and things like that. A zombie may be fast or slow, but ultimately what it's doing and what it goes are straightforward. With a ghost, it's like, what they want, what they can do, how they get around. [01:45:46] Speaker A: That is enticing. [01:45:48] Speaker B: Yeah, it gives. It's. There's like an openness, and it makes it so that you don't necessarily know what to expect from a ghost movie, where it's like, yeah, I might like a vampire movie, knowing what I'm getting into and where it can go. But, like, when it comes to, like, a ghost thing, it just feels like it's very open, what you can do with it. And so, yeah, I just. I love 1408. I think it's one of the. The great ghost flicks out there. But I did watch. I didn't know this. The version that my friend Kyle has on his plex is like, the director's cut. And I felt like I was Like, I was like, did I. Like, did I just forget how this movie ends? Because it ends completely different than the DVD that I had, you know, since 2007. And I was like, I genuinely was confused until I read somebody else's review and they were like, I watched the director's cut, and what a weird way to end this movie. I was like, oh, okay. Wasn't it wasn't me. [01:46:43] Speaker A: And which director are we talking about? Is it somebody notable? [01:46:46] Speaker B: Honestly, I actually don't know who directed this, now that I think about it. Not a clue who directed this movie. So I would say probably not that notable. [01:46:57] Speaker A: It is not one I've seen. [01:46:59] Speaker B: Oh, you've never seen 1408? [01:47:01] Speaker A: I have not. Although I do enjoy John Cusack. I like him a lot. [01:47:04] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's. He holds up whole thing. Him going crazy in a room. [01:47:10] Speaker A: There you go. It is a Stephen King story. I thought so. [01:47:12] Speaker B: Yes, it is a Stephen King story. Originally. Yeah, it's a. It's a good one. I recommend it. So that was what I did with my ghost craving the other night. [01:47:21] Speaker A: Nice. Without spoilers, because I have a day to myself on Friday, and I'm thinking I might well go and see Mortal Kombat 2. What can you tell me? [01:47:31] Speaker B: Oh, it's so much fun. I went and saw this with a terrible audience, and I still managed to, like, tune in and watch it. It is so fun. It's just like. But also, I think what Mortal Kombat gets right is, like, the balance between it being, like, very fun and silly and also kind of the melodrama of a martial arts movie at the exact same time. So it's, like, very much got, like, a heavy story to it with high stakes, you know, an end of the world kind of. [01:48:04] Speaker A: That comes as a surprise. I was not expecting that. [01:48:07] Speaker B: Yeah. But then with, like, you know, these characters who. Some. Some are pretty, like, straight. There's nothing to laugh about in their characters at all. And then you get, like, Karl Urban, who's, like, ridiculous in this movie, and it just walks the line so well throughout this movie, I think, where just you really get invested in the story and these characters and. And then there's these fights that are incredible. There's a sharp hat that stressed me out for the full, like, five minutes of a fight where, like, I was [01:48:40] Speaker A: like, literally, Is that the guy with the sharp hat? [01:48:43] Speaker B: Isn't him. It's his brother. [01:48:48] Speaker A: Okay. [01:48:48] Speaker B: And I can't think of Kun Something. Kun Something. Anyways. But, yeah, Mortal Kombat. Super fun. I'm like now terrified, like, telling you [01:49:01] Speaker A: that's my mind made up. [01:49:02] Speaker B: Yeah, but it's a fun one. If it's a thing that you like, you will like it. And if it's a thing that you're not into, you will not like it. That's kind of what it comes down to. [01:49:13] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. I mean, again, it's going to be a day of skincare and watching movies on Friday, so I like it. I put my Wild Rose hip moisturizer on by myself. [01:49:23] Speaker B: I will say that, like, some. This is the second time this has happened to me recently at, like, a loud horror, like, graphic horror movie that the people next to me brought a small child. And like, this kid sounded like he had kennel cough or whatever the human equivalent of kennel cough is, but they gave him a phone and like, we're like, you know, just play a video game or whatever. But of course, he's a kid. He kept turning the sound on and stuff like that. And it was like, if I looked out of the right side, like, I was just looking at this kid's game in there. It's like, come on. Like, it was. Would have worked out, but I did. I had my earplugs in, which I wear because AMC's sound is too loud anyway, so that helped. And, yeah, the movie sucked me in enough that eventually I kind of forgot about him. So. [01:50:14] Speaker A: Okay, fantastic. I won't wait to steal that one. I shall go and watch it, particularly if I know that Karl Urban might get some of my money. [01:50:23] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, come on, you can't feel bad about going to see Karl Urban on the big screen. He's a delight. [01:50:29] Speaker A: I. Do you remember ages ago I told you that I had a dream that I went out for drinks with Hugh Jackman? [01:50:35] Speaker B: I don't know if I remember that, but I tried. [01:50:37] Speaker A: This was probably like five years ago, and I've just remembered. [01:50:39] Speaker B: Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Who knows? [01:50:41] Speaker A: I did, you know, the other years [01:50:42] Speaker B: ago I told you about had a [01:50:43] Speaker A: dream I went out with Hugh Jackman and he was like, just really kind and nice, really lovely. I think Carl Urban would also be great to go out with. [01:50:51] Speaker B: Oh, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Hugh Jackman is in a cult. I will talk about that one of these weeks. That's on my list. Yes, but Carl Urban, I mean, my interaction with him was glorious. And I can only assume that, you know, everyone seems to like him like that. Like, he's. He used to use Instagram a lot and he would, like, have, like, just pictures of him out on his fishing boat with people. And, like, everyone always talks about, like, what a. What a lad he is, you know? [01:51:21] Speaker A: Yeah. One zillion percent. [01:51:25] Speaker B: Yes. Let me see. [01:51:26] Speaker A: What do I watch? Shall I look? [01:51:28] Speaker B: Yeah. While you do that. I watched. I was in the mood for some Zane core this week, and so I watched his directorial debut. Debut, which is called Interior Hallway Night, which was, you know, it was an interesting idea, sort of like multiple timelines happening at once sort of situation where, you know, he plays the director of a movie and he. There's a scene in the movie where this couple, one of which is his wife and the other is the man she's having an affair with, are killed in a shower, but he then actually kills them. At least in one timeline. But there's a timeline. There's a separate timeline happening where it's the movie and they're trying to figure out, like, what's going on here and why things are happening and yada yada. And it's an interesting story, however interminable. It's. It's much more fun than it sounds. Extremely low budget, you know, shoestring budget year. And it would be at least something that you'd be like, hey, good job. Right. Except that for some reason, he used his sister's music for the whole score. And it makes zero sense with the movie. So it's like this, like, kind of thrillery, like, you know, alternate dimensions, weirdness going on with, like, a woman singing coffee shop jazz over the entire movie. And it is. I nearly turned it off multiple times simply because of the music. It is entirely unwatchable as a result. Yeah, it's like. That's the whole time. [01:53:08] Speaker A: Is he just, like, helping you out? [01:53:10] Speaker B: Choice. I think he just loves his sister. You know, it's not like she made it for the movie. It's like from an old album of hers, and he just used it. I don't. I don't know, but it was a terrible, terrible choice. And this is why I don't recommend subjecting yourself to Interior Hallway Night. But Billy Zane, of course, is always great. And I had you download his movie where he plays Marlon Brando for me. [01:53:36] Speaker A: Yeah, he did as well. So did you watch that yet? [01:53:39] Speaker B: Not yet, no. And kind of the same thing happens. It's like, apparently John Heder is the other lead in it, and he's apparently terrible in it. The movie is not very good, but everyone says Billy Zane is, like, transcendent. Like, you have to watch him play it. So I'm like, all right, I shall [01:53:55] Speaker A: do it this a movie out there somewhere, I think, in the future where Billy Zane and Walton Goggins are brothers. [01:54:04] Speaker B: I'm. Listen, I'm here for it. I'll watch it. I'm gonna cast, I think Billy Zane. It's just weird that his career has turned out how it has because I'm sure he's happy. I'm sure he's happy. He seems. I mean, I follow him on Instagram and he seems to, like, love his life or whatever, but just in terms of, like, the, like, skill to project ratio, it's like, very off, you know, where it's like. It feels like there was a point at which it was like, clear, like, he is. This man is an actor. He's really good. And then it hit like 2000, and from that point forward, it's like he's just in weird, like, you know, D movies from that point on. Like, why did he, like, have gambling debt? Like, what happened here? That someone who, like, we all know is a great actor is just in nothing movies. It's just bizarre to me. [01:55:03] Speaker A: I can believe that he might have burned a bridge or two. I mean, there are plenty of stories of him being kind of a dickhead. [01:55:10] Speaker B: Sure. [01:55:11] Speaker A: On sets and in interviews and such. So I think he might just have got himself a reputation as difficult. [01:55:17] Speaker B: Yeah, that could be it. Although, speaking of people who had reputations for being difficult, Tom Hardy, you know, he's. He's apologized for that, for being an asshole on things, but he just found out he's autistic. So, you know, interesting not to blame that for being an. But I just think that's interesting that he found out recently that he is on the spectrum and now he's like, kind of being like an advocate guy for it. [01:55:45] Speaker A: Interesting. Yes. I've. I'm. I'm very, very sick of seeing people use that as some kind of. [01:55:54] Speaker B: Oh, he hasn't done that. [01:55:56] Speaker A: Oh, no, no, that's not what I'm suggesting. That is not at all. [01:55:59] Speaker B: No, what I'm suggesting. You know how I feel about that, given my nemesis in AEW and whatnot. [01:56:06] Speaker A: Quite. [01:56:07] Speaker B: There's. It is very frustrating how many men seem to be using I'm autistic as a reason that, like, oh, I. So I just sexually harass people or, you know, I act like an. Or whatever. Like. No, that's. [01:56:20] Speaker A: That's not what autistic is. [01:56:21] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's a completely different thing. But no, this was. It was just the thing that made me think of Tom Hardy. Oh, he used to be Difficult. He apologized for it years ago. Oh, also, he just found out he's autistic. [01:56:36] Speaker A: It might explain. It might explain the voices. It might explain doing a silly voice and everything. [01:56:41] Speaker B: But it's like, everyone is like. Comments on the articles of it are just like, yeah, no, this. That adds up. [01:56:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Makes perfect sense. [01:56:49] Speaker B: No one is surprised by this revelation. [01:56:52] Speaker A: Silly voice in everything you do. [01:56:56] Speaker B: Yep. [01:56:58] Speaker A: I don't really want to talk about what I watched. I mean. [01:57:00] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [01:57:02] Speaker A: I'm happy to wrap it up. I mean, well, we can go on. [01:57:07] Speaker B: Just a wreck. That was very fun. Watched Deadly Invasion, the killer bee nightmare with the scream and chat. [01:57:14] Speaker A: Oh, God. [01:57:15] Speaker B: Which was a blast. It's like a TV movie from the 90s. Early Ryan Phillippe about bees. It's just a creature feature about killer bees. And it's very much. I was thinking of you the whole time, Mark, because, you know, you have that thing about the African organized bees and this weird, like, every year for the past. Yeah, the Murder Hornets have. [01:57:36] Speaker A: It's probably due actually any day. [01:57:38] Speaker B: Any day now. And every year they talk about the Murder Hornets coming, you know, and it's clearly like, this idea of, like, an outside invasion and whatnot. And this movie from, like, 1996 is a warning about the Africanized bees coming. You know, they'll be here. This, like, it literally has, like, at the beginning and end, like, a warning of, like, the bees are coming. But, you know, by this summer, they may be, you know, in your neighborhood and stuff like that. So Deadly Invasion, the killer bee nightmare, is just a blast. So 90s. So absurd. [01:58:15] Speaker A: I am officially on Murder Hornet Watch. And as soon as I see the headline, which I will, and it'll be in the Daily Mail, I'll make sure to shout loud and proud about it. It'll be all in the Discord. [01:58:27] Speaker B: Excellent. You don't want to talk about the movies that we watched? [01:58:32] Speaker A: No, we'll. They'll keep. They'll keep. We'll pick them up next week. [01:58:36] Speaker B: We can do that. [01:58:37] Speaker A: Yeah. They ain't going anywhere. [01:58:40] Speaker B: All right. We'll come back. [01:58:41] Speaker A: Unlike. Unlike our Prime Minister. [01:58:46] Speaker B: Keep us posted. You know, hit the Discord and whatnot. I keep. I do apologize for those of you who still use, like, Facebook and. And Instagram for communication and whatnot, that I never post anything in there. Please do join the Discord it is. [01:59:03] Speaker A: And every. Every now and again, I'll open Facebook. I don't know. I don't know. But I barely open. The only time I go on Facebook to post is when the Celebrity dies. It's the only time. [01:59:11] Speaker B: Yep. [01:59:12] Speaker A: And maybe a couple of times a week I'll. I'll just idly scroll down my feed and. It is a ghost town, man. It is. [01:59:20] Speaker B: There's nothing going on there. [01:59:22] Speaker A: AI. Ad AI. Someone you don't know. AI. It's fucking awful. Absolutely dogshit. It adds absolutely nothing to anything. [01:59:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:59:34] Speaker A: What is it? [01:59:35] Speaker B: What? What's the point? We've got a perfectly good discord for you to come hang out and talk about things you should. [01:59:41] Speaker A: Which you should do. Which you should do. [01:59:42] Speaker B: We got to set up a nice watch along soon as well so that we can get into our Evil Dead before August or July. End of July. [01:59:51] Speaker A: It. It releases July 10th. So come back five weeks from July 10th. Yes. [01:59:57] Speaker B: Oh, I feel like it's later than that here. I think it's like the 20th something. [02:00:01] Speaker A: I'm reasonably sure we get it on July 10th. [02:00:05] Speaker B: That happened with the. The last Evil Dead 2, although I was there for it. But yeah, they released it like weeks ahead over there. Then here. Oh no, it is July 10th here. I'm just kidding. [02:00:20] Speaker A: There we go. Fantastic. Yeah, so yeah, we gotta get on it. [02:00:23] Speaker B: We gotta get some watch alongs going. [02:00:25] Speaker A: Yes, we do. Or more to the point, I do. Yes, but what you have to do, listeners. Yes, stay spooky. [02:00:38] Speaker B: Yes.