Ep. 259: who is jane dee

[00:00:04] Speaker A: How. How deep are we into the journey now? Six years. Six years. [00:00:08] Speaker B: We're like five and a half. [00:00:09] Speaker A: Five and a half years. [00:00:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:00:11] Speaker A: I'm still. I'm still the same guy. Right. I'm still the same bloke. I'm still the same guy who awkwardly started this podcast with you on that first night. [00:00:22] Speaker B: Sure. [00:00:22] Speaker A: And I'm still fascinated by the same things. I'm still preoccupied with the same things. Right. I'm still preoccupied. I still have the same. What's the word? Still have the same. [00:00:37] Speaker B: Just predilections. [00:00:39] Speaker A: Predilections. That's the one. [00:00:41] Speaker B: That's the one. [00:00:43] Speaker A: And this evening, tonight, here, I would love to talk to you about. I'd love to explore disorders, mental issues. [00:00:54] Speaker B: Oh, okay. Yeah. This is a return to form. [00:00:58] Speaker A: What happens when something goes fucking. When there's a schism or a fissure, some kind of crack happens in the mental landscape of someone's mind. [00:01:09] Speaker B: Okay. [00:01:10] Speaker A: And I did send you a name earlier on to ask if this was a case that you'd heard of before, and I'm stunned that you didn't because. Yeah, I'm just as stunned that I. I have never heard of this before either. [00:01:25] Speaker B: Interesting. Yeah. I was not familiar at all with what you sent me. [00:01:29] Speaker A: Oh, it's incredible. It's incredible. It's incredible. You're in for a ride, right? You're in for a ride. [00:01:35] Speaker B: I'm excited. Yeah. Take me on a journey, Mark Lewis. [00:01:38] Speaker A: I will, I will, I will. What we're gonna do is we're gonna go to Tacoma. [00:01:47] Speaker B: Okay. I've been there. [00:01:48] Speaker A: All right. Tacoma. Where is that? That's Washington. [00:01:51] Speaker B: Is it? That is Washington, yes. [00:01:52] Speaker A: There you go. There you go. I'm gonna talk about a lady, a lady by the name of Jody Roberts. Okay. [00:02:01] Speaker B: All right. [00:02:02] Speaker A: Jody. Jody Roberts is a journalist. I. I can't determine whether or not she still lives. Right. Whether or not she still breathes. I can't find whether or not she's still alive. [00:02:14] Speaker B: Okay. The. [00:02:15] Speaker A: The. The incident that we're talking about here happened in the early 80s. [00:02:18] Speaker B: All right? [00:02:19] Speaker A: And I'll stop by just sketching out a little bit about Jodie. She was a journalist. In fact, it is perfectly apt to speak of her in the past tense, and you'll fucking learn why. A journalist. A newsie. Right. Someone who absolutely fucking lived her work, lived her job. She was part of a large family, second of five kids, born in Oregon and, you know, graduated, graduated in Tacoma. And by her mid-20s, she had carved herself a reputation as tenacious as Intellectually restless. A reporter who would cover a very particular kind of journalism. Police reporting. Right. She would follow the police beat, she would follow crime reporting, politics. And this tenacity that I speak of was one that often put her in very close proximity to corruption. [00:03:43] Speaker B: Sure. [00:03:44] Speaker A: To violence, to crime. Think about this job and think about the pressure and the exposure that it. That it. That it leaves someone vulnerable to. To the emotional absorption, I guess we'd say that this job demands. Right. And that accumulated. Accumulated weight was formidable. Right. For Jody in the early 1980s in the Pacific Northwest, where she worked, not only did she deal with criminal cases, not only did she deal with politics, she was instrumental in the reporting of the. The Green River Killer. [00:04:41] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:04:43] Speaker A: Does that name ring a bell? [00:04:44] Speaker B: Definitely, yeah. I couldn't, like, tell you the details off the top of my head, but I know I've watched Dateline and things like that about the Green River Killer. I think there might have been, like, a Netflix document. [00:04:56] Speaker A: There is a Netflix dog. Absolutely. There is a guy by the name of Gary Ridgeway. [00:04:59] Speaker B: Of course. Gary Ridgeway. [00:05:01] Speaker A: There you go. [00:05:01] Speaker B: Yes. [00:05:02] Speaker A: All right, I'm back with you on his capture. Confessed to 49 murders. [00:05:07] Speaker B: That's too many murders, bud. [00:05:09] Speaker A: It's just. And, you know, with the suspicion that there were plenty more. Right, right. And during the time that we're talking about here, Jody Roberts was. Was working. You know, she'd worked on the Green River Killer, and she, you know, she was very close, interviewing. Interviewing sex workers, interviewing victims, families. She was also looking into the financial affairs of politicians in the area. And the case that she was working on, which cause, you know, which surrounded this flashpoint that we're going to talk about here, was to do with a police, a county sheriff. Right. A county sheriff's deputy who had been. It'd been alleged that he was a cocaine user. It was. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was like. He was a captain at the time. And comes to like that she was under significant pressure from this guy, a guy by the name of Mark French. [00:06:20] Speaker B: Okay. [00:06:21] Speaker A: So we have a young female journalist. She is, you know, she has information suggesting that there's, like, senior law enforcement using and concerned in the selling of cocaine. [00:06:36] Speaker B: Excellent. Of course. [00:06:37] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And this guy French was actually confirmed as sheriff in 1997. Right. Keep that in mind. Keep that in mind. [00:06:48] Speaker B: That's not great, given when you told me this story takes place. [00:06:52] Speaker A: Yes, yes. Yeah. [00:06:53] Speaker B: Not surprising, but yeah, go on. [00:06:55] Speaker A: It's relevant. It's super relevant. It's super relevant. It's super relevant. Now, we are in May in 1985, right? [00:07:04] Speaker B: I was about to say that's when I was born. I wasn't quite born yet, but that's the year I was born. [00:07:10] Speaker A: So we're in May 1985. And Robert Jodie has a meeting with a photographer in her alma mater, University Pacific Lutheran University. [00:07:23] Speaker B: Okay. [00:07:24] Speaker A: And on the morning of the meeting, May 20, she fails to show. Right. Uh oh, she simply doesn't show up. And obviously for somebody in her line of work, this is unusual. [00:07:37] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm guessing this is not a thing that regularly happens. She just shows up. [00:07:41] Speaker A: Not at all. [00:07:42] Speaker B: My bad. Slept in. [00:07:45] Speaker A: There are details. Right. Just before vanishing, she emptied her bank account. Takes just $350. All she has to her name withdraws from her bank account. [00:07:56] Speaker B: She only had $350 to her name. [00:07:58] Speaker A: 350 bucks. [00:08:00] Speaker B: Damn. [00:08:02] Speaker A: She had some cats. She had some rescue cats which she gave to a shelter in the previous days. [00:08:11] Speaker B: Okay. [00:08:12] Speaker A: She had requested vacation time just before she vanished, which had been declined. [00:08:21] Speaker B: Oh, [00:08:23] Speaker A: the cat, the bank account, the holiday request. These elements kind of paint a picture of someone who was planning a disappearance. [00:08:35] Speaker B: Yes, yes, absolutely. Although it is funny to ask for vacation time. If you're just going to disappear and then just vanish. Why not quit, you know? [00:08:45] Speaker A: But here's the thing. She never showed up. Right? [00:08:49] Speaker B: Right. She's still working, but she. [00:08:52] Speaker A: She's gone awol. She's gone fucking poof. She's just completely vanished. And nothing is hid from her until five days later. Right. Five days later in Denver, 1500 miles away. [00:09:11] Speaker B: Yeah. And [00:09:16] Speaker A: a call was placed to the police at a shopping center or a mall, I believe you call it. [00:09:24] Speaker B: Yeah, we. We use both. Yeah. [00:09:28] Speaker A: A lady with no idea who she was, no idea where she was, with nothing but a pack of cigarettes, a couple of pens, an empty notepad. None of the cars in the parking lot fit the car key that she was carrying. [00:09:49] Speaker B: Huh. [00:09:51] Speaker A: And this lady recognizes nothing. [00:09:55] Speaker B: Hmm. [00:09:56] Speaker A: The police take this lady to a hospital. She is described as being alert and articulate. But here's the thing. That woman, that woman in Denver, in that parking lot, that woman in that shopping centre had no memory of her history. Claimed to have no memory of her identity, her family, but is fully capable of reasoning and of responding. [00:10:27] Speaker B: Huh. [00:10:30] Speaker A: Now, this lady also apparently spent some time in Denver area hospitals, right? Where nobody is able to confirm her identity. [00:10:41] Speaker B: So they're like, passing her around, like, exactly this. I don't know. Maybe you guys know what to do with this lady? [00:10:47] Speaker A: Exactly this. Now this lady, after being released from hospital, then goes on to build herself a completely new life. [00:11:06] Speaker B: All right, go on. Yeah. [00:11:09] Speaker A: A totally new identity. She gave herself a new name, calling herself Jane D, D, double E, as in John Doe. Jane Dee. [00:11:19] Speaker B: Yeah, sure. She really just rolled with it. [00:11:23] Speaker A: Yep. And she didn't kind of squirrel herself away. She completely built a new life. She became a waitress. She put herself through a university course and learned Russian. [00:11:41] Speaker B: What? [00:11:43] Speaker A: Okay, fascinating. And got a job at a fast food restaurant. Got a job as a waitress. And those who came to know her as Jane Dee talk about her being just a highly intelligent, super sociable, gregarious woman. [00:12:06] Speaker B: Did they know that about, like, not. Not who she was, but did they know that, like, she had, like, no idea who she was? [00:12:13] Speaker A: Yes, well, yeah, yeah, absolutely. But there are quotes from her manager at the restaurant, at the kind of burger restaurant that she worked at. Yeah. I could see that there was a barrier. You know, one of her colleagues is quoted as saying, I did kind of pry on her. It's not a real common name. Jane G. I know she studied Russian, and I kidded her. [00:12:40] Speaker B: It's the 80s. They're like, are you a spy? [00:12:43] Speaker A: The guy actually kidded her that she was a Russian spy. [00:12:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:46] Speaker A: People offered. People offered to help her look for connections to her past, but she showed absolutely no interest. Jane wasn't in any way seemingly tormented by her amnesia. [00:13:04] Speaker B: Right. [00:13:05] Speaker A: And had almost kind of resigned herself to this present tense, to this. This completely blank slate that she built from interesting local newspapers, offered to publicize her story, to run her picture, to try and find where she came from, to connect her to a past life, but she completely declined. [00:13:29] Speaker B: Hmm. Interesting. [00:13:31] Speaker A: Resigning herself, isn't it? Very, very fucking interesting. Resigning herself to this new life, this blank slate. She moved around, right. She moved in 1989 to Alaska. An island community in Alaska. Right. A town called Sitka. 8 and a half thousand people. [00:13:51] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, like in the Proposal. Yes, with Ryan. Ryan Reynolds and Sandra Bullock. It's a movie I have seen dozens of times. [00:14:03] Speaker A: But think, I mean, who moves to a place like that? [00:14:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I wouldn't, that's for sure. [00:14:12] Speaker A: Who, who, who, who does, though? [00:14:14] Speaker B: People who need to get away. Like. Yeah, you're. [00:14:17] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:14:18] Speaker B: It's as remote as you can get without, like, you know, actively living in, like, a shack in the middle of the woods. [00:14:25] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:14:25] Speaker B: Nobody is going to find you there. [00:14:28] Speaker A: Exactly. This is it, the sort of place, I wonder, where someone might seek community and family without questions attached, without interrogation [00:14:43] Speaker B: maybe, because, like, 8,000 people is enough People, Right. You know, it's like, that's a. You can. You can build a life. [00:14:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:51] Speaker B: In there, you know? [00:14:53] Speaker A: Yep. She took up a trade. She actually began a web design company of her own. She taught herself. Web design. [00:15:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:05] Speaker A: Completely entrepreneurial. Completely. Kind of a little hustle that she developed. And she fell in love and raised a family. [00:15:17] Speaker B: Okay. All right. [00:15:19] Speaker A: Met a commercial fisherman, a guy by the name of Dan Williams. He'd moved to Alaska himself. And she eventually married Dan and had four daughters. [00:15:35] Speaker B: Wow. [00:15:36] Speaker A: Gave birth to two sets of twins. [00:15:38] Speaker B: Oh, nice. And this whole time, again, her husband, her kids, all of that. When they're like, you know, why don't we have a grandma and grandpa? She's like, I don't remember anything. [00:15:51] Speaker A: No clue. [00:15:52] Speaker B: Okay. [00:15:53] Speaker A: Cleanse, Right? [00:15:55] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly like that's what she's telling her family and everybody around is. I don't. I don't know. [00:16:02] Speaker A: In the community that she lived, you know, she was a business owner. Her community knew her as a, you know, she would do community stuff, go to fucking potlucks. [00:16:12] Speaker B: Right. [00:16:12] Speaker A: You know? [00:16:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:13] Speaker A: She moved into a trailer. She lived in a yellow trailer home overlooking the coast. [00:16:20] Speaker B: Okay. With her family. [00:16:23] Speaker A: Yes. [00:16:24] Speaker B: Four kids in a trailer, seemingly. That's a lot. That's tight, pale. [00:16:32] Speaker A: Yep. A yellow trailer overlooking the beach. A rocky beach. [00:16:36] Speaker B: All right. [00:16:38] Speaker A: But completely off grid and completely unconnected to her previous life. Okay, now this is where it gets even more insane, right? [00:16:56] Speaker B: Oh, really? [00:16:57] Speaker A: Because this was a long dormant kind of missing person's case in Tacoma by this point. [00:17:06] Speaker B: Right. Like, at this, they know it seemed like she was gonna leave. So they're probably not super worried about, like, foul play. They're like, we just don't know where this broad went. [00:17:18] Speaker A: But her missing person's case, in part because of the connection to Mark French, the Pierce county now sheriff, had been in the interim, classified as a potential homicide. [00:17:35] Speaker B: Oh, okay. So they were concerned about it. [00:17:38] Speaker A: Yeah, by all means. The case had never been closed. [00:17:41] Speaker B: Okay. Because I was thinking that, like. Because she, you know, the emptied out account and stuff like that. But they probably then were like, did. Did someone else do that to make it look like she fled? [00:17:54] Speaker A: A ex colleague of hers, somebody who had worked with her as a waitress in Alaska in 1989, saw her photo on the TV while watching a news show on cable. Quoted, the minute I saw her, I knew, Wright said, I was so nervous, I didn't know what the heck to do. And Wright calls the sheriff's department and. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And a couple of weeks later, the Police show up, follow up on her tip. [00:18:29] Speaker B: This is in Colorado, not Alaska, right? [00:18:32] Speaker A: This. Yeah, this. This is. This is her home. Her home state. [00:18:37] Speaker B: No, I mean, the waitress was in Colorado, so she's from. This is probably harder because you don't know where any of these things are. She's from Washington. Tacoma. She moves to Colorado. [00:18:48] Speaker A: She was found in Colorado. She was found in Colorado a few days later and then moves to Alaska. Yes. [00:18:54] Speaker B: So they did find her in Colorado. The cops showed up and talked to her. [00:18:59] Speaker A: No, this was. This was in Alaska. Her home. Her home, her community, her husband. All of this was in Alaska. [00:19:06] Speaker B: Okay, so she also was a waitress in Alaska. She was a waitress, Colorado. [00:19:11] Speaker A: In Alaska, yes. Okay, this person who. Who. Who blew the whistle, who called the police [00:19:20] Speaker B: is in. [00:19:21] Speaker A: Sitka is in. Yeah. She'd worked with her as a waitress in Alaska in 89. [00:19:30] Speaker B: Okay, so the cops show up to Alaska. [00:19:34] Speaker A: So. Yes. So her friend. Her ex friend or ex colleague, Madeleine Wright, calls the Pierce County Police, who do nothing for two weeks. [00:19:45] Speaker B: Of course. [00:19:48] Speaker A: Why is that, I wonder? I mean, there's lots of. That raises a question to me about whether that initial kind of failure to do anything is related to the fact that this is kind of connected to the. Now Sheriff French, right? [00:20:05] Speaker B: Yeah. It's kind of a like. All right, so what's the move? Do we want to find her? Is this going to expose something? You know what? Is it a good idea to know where she is? This is a Catholic sister act. [00:20:22] Speaker A: It is incredible. It's incredible. [00:20:23] Speaker B: You know, they see Dolores on the TV and then they go and they. [00:20:26] Speaker A: That is it. Yeah, completely. So the cops end up tracking her down. They talk to previous employers. They get in touch with the hotel that employed her and the colleague who raised the alarm. The cops then go to the Alaskan authorities and take a look at Robert's driver's license. The photos match, the handwriting matches up, and it is beyond doubt that it's Jodie. [00:20:59] Speaker B: Sure. [00:21:00] Speaker A: They get her to write to the police. [00:21:02] Speaker B: I'm sorry, I just want to, like, as a side thing here. Right. Like, if. So she was on this crime show or whatever. Right. Or like, whatever TV show that was like, this woman is missing. But it didn't say she'd committed a crime. Right. Like, because she hadn't, as far as we know. Like, you know, that's not like. That's right. [00:21:20] Speaker A: She was never prosecuted. There was absolutely no criminal investigation. [00:21:23] Speaker B: Let's say you're her server friend and. [00:21:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:26] Speaker B: Why would you call the police first, you know, like, that's crazy to me. There is no way. I'd be like, I know this person is alive and well and doing their thing. I'm gonna call the cops and not be like, hey, does anyone still have her phone number? Can I tell her that people are looking for and I think I know who she is. Like, I would tell her. That is crazy to me to be like, I'm just gonna call the cops. Like, what if she had a reason? What if she was, like, domestically abused or something, you know? [00:21:59] Speaker A: Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Even though they didn't kind of live in the same state at the time, in the same area at the time, you'd still reach out to her first. [00:22:06] Speaker B: Yeah. You would try to find someone who, like, had her number, you know, that's just. That's all. I mean, it's neither here nor there to the story. It's just wild to me that someone would be like, I see my friend on the television who I know is fine. Yeah, and I'm gonna call the cops and not her. Get it together, lady. Anyways, anyways, meanwhile in Alaska, Meanwhile, Jodie [00:22:33] Speaker A: or Jane, still, even though her kind of past life is catching up with her and crashing in on her, still claims to have absolutely no recollection. There was a reunion. I'll refer to her as Jane from now, but she had a reunion with her parents back at the home that she had lived at. And the family planned, you know, invited her to dinner to look at photographs, and she made no connections at all. To quote her mum, she didn't know that she was a reporter. She didn't know when her birthday was, even though she was 39 by the time she was found. Jane claimed to believe that she was 35. Miscalculated her own age. [00:23:27] Speaker B: Interesting, isn't it? [00:23:30] Speaker A: What a detail. No anchor to any kind of birth date. No kind of sense of a personal timeline. [00:23:39] Speaker B: Right. [00:23:41] Speaker A: Her ex editor at the News Tribune that she worked at. Everyone at the News Tribune is. Feels a tremendous feeling of relief to know that Jody Roberts is alive. We'd love to know more, but we're happy today just to know that Jody is alive. [00:23:57] Speaker B: This is so weird. Like, if she's, if she's, you know, lying about this, she's selling it. [00:24:04] Speaker A: Selling it beautifully. [00:24:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:06] Speaker A: See, every source that talks about this, every website, every case study talks about this being a beautiful IRL case of disassociative fugue. [00:24:24] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:24:26] Speaker A: Disassociated fugue. Fugue state, psychogenic fugue. [00:24:32] Speaker B: This is like what I was talking about. With you last week. Right. Like the idea. I don't remember if this is on the podcast or not. So sorry if it wasn't. But when I was like, you know, when you don't want to go to school and so you're gonna tell your mom you're sick and you start feeling sick, like, to catch up with it. She wanted to. She wanted amnesia and she gave herself amnesia. Is this what's happening here? [00:24:57] Speaker A: Yep. Well, look, disassociated disassociative fugue. This is a condition where a individual's identity will just be completely erased by amnesia. Right. Often accompanied by unexpected uncharacteristic wandering or travel, often triggered by prolonged exposure to trauma. [00:25:29] Speaker B: Right. [00:25:31] Speaker A: Very commonly. I mean, as common as this is, [00:25:34] Speaker B: but not frequently per se. Right. [00:25:38] Speaker A: Associated with people who've experienced childhood trauma, sexual abuse. [00:25:43] Speaker B: Sure. [00:25:44] Speaker A: Disassociative amnesia to suppress kind of traumatic memories. But it doesn't have to be historical trauma. Right. There are cases where the fugue state, the flashpoint, can occur quite soon after an experience of acute trauma, or it can happen much later. You know, but if that's the angle that we're gonna buy, then it makes sense. Sustained proximity to the Green river killer. [00:26:18] Speaker B: Yep. [00:26:19] Speaker A: You know, violence, fucking sexual assault. Just absolute horrors from a killer who at that point was unknown. The political confrontations, the kind of. The pressure and the exposure that would come with a reporter being really, really close to blowing the fucking lid off a really, really, really impactful case across her state. It feels like a crucible, you know what I mean? [00:26:50] Speaker B: A pressure. Especially if, like, maybe we don't know because she doesn't remember, if, like, someone threatened her in some way, if there was like this imminent threat of violence or something like that. [00:27:02] Speaker A: Yeah. And disassociative fugue is, in many sources, thought of as a. As a way for a person to be able to kind of flee, as a way for a person to escape psychological trauma. You know, the link between trauma and dissociation is, you know, irrefutable. [00:27:26] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. We all know this exists and is a thing. [00:27:30] Speaker A: Yes. [00:27:30] Speaker B: That happens quite often. [00:27:33] Speaker A: The. The vexatious point here, though, the big kind of question is the duration. [00:27:42] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. That's what seems odd. [00:27:45] Speaker A: She built her new life with her new family, with a new business. Learning to speak Russian in a brand new state. Built a business over 12 fucking years. [00:27:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Nothing coming back. No flash behind the eyes of. [00:28:01] Speaker A: Nothing. Like nightmares of being a reporter. [00:28:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:08] Speaker A: Nothing. [00:28:09] Speaker B: No memories of the Pacific Northwest. [00:28:13] Speaker A: Not a thing. Disassociative figs Tend to last for hours, days, possibly weeks. There are a clutch of cases which have extended for some months, but. 12 years. 12 fucking years. Not completely unprecedented, but right on the fringes, Right. [00:28:36] Speaker B: That almost feels like, like head drama, level of amnesia. Like how does that. That's a long time to just get nothing back. [00:28:50] Speaker A: It's an incredible long time, particularly Right. And look, this is Jack of all graves. What we don't do here is just hoover up the first explanation. [00:28:59] Speaker B: We don't. No, we don't. [00:29:01] Speaker A: That's not what we fucking do, right? And in the interests of, you know, in the interests of level headedness, we have to consider the fucking cash withdrawal, right? The giving away the cats and leaving her car. [00:29:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:22] Speaker A: And you know, the holiday request, Right? [00:29:26] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't know, it's really interesting because like, you know, on the one hand it's like, I don't know, maybe that's the beginning. Maybe she woke up in her apartment. I was like, what the is going on? Why are there these cats and things like this? But maybe it's slow onset, you know, she is starting to slip and, you know, bit by bit it becomes a thing. [00:29:47] Speaker A: There's so many fucking interesting details. She didn't leave any notes. She didn't give any indication that she was about to vanish. She had been working, right. Right up until a couple of days [00:29:55] Speaker B: before she had a meeting set up. [00:29:57] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. There were no. This is bizarre to me. There were no articles ever published in any newspapers that she was missing. [00:30:07] Speaker B: Well, and that's, that's the thing too, is this like not wanting anyone to help her? Like, I don't care how much you're like enjoying your new life or whatever. Like you would want to know, like, what if you have kids or something like that, right? Like there are a number of things, you know, what if you have a sick parent? You take care of the idea that you would just be like, no, no thanks. I don't like that. That's a thing you would only do if you knew you didn't have something to go back to or that you were running from something. Being like, don't put my picture anywhere. Yeah, I don't. I would not buy that. [00:30:47] Speaker A: You know, on the other hand, right. [00:30:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:53] Speaker A: She was in hospital in Denver for four months. Mm. [00:30:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:59] Speaker A: And. Yeah, okay. In the 80s, kind of assessment and diagnosis tools for this kind of thing were, you know, were by no means as, as were embryonic, should we say? Perhaps. [00:31:11] Speaker B: Yeah. And I don't even know how you would figure this out. Now, for that matter, right? Like, how do you prove someone is or isn't making this shit up, you know? Because the thing about her is that she sounds. You know how I always complain when it comes to, like, murderers and things like that? I'm like, none of these people watch Dateline, right? And so they always make very stupid mistakes along the way that you're like, if you saw one episode of the show, you know you're gonna be caught immediately for this. And she sounds so smart. I mean, a woman who taught herself Russian and web design and all kinds of things like that. That part of me is like, you know what? It seems like she knew how to, like, even showing up with a key that doesn't match the cars. Like, she really thought this stuff through. If I need to sit in hospitals for four months, fine. Like, we're gonna do that. And then I'm gonna get out of here and, you know, make this new life or whatever. And then, you know, she started in Colorado, and then she was like, how can I get further? All right, we're gonna hit Alaska. Nobody's gonna be up there. Who has any. Any. It's not gonna appear on the news or anything like that up there. Like, as far as she knew, however, it is the beginning of these kinds of shows, like America's Most Wanted, things like that. [00:32:26] Speaker A: I mean, what. What never happened, right? I mean, it from a certain angle, clinically, there's never been a kind of a final rubber stamp on this, right? She was never. [00:32:38] Speaker B: This is what happened. [00:32:39] Speaker A: She was never kind of. She never went through a fucking mri. She was never. Never had the fucking, you know, the sticky things on your head, neuroimaging. That never happened. But there is an incredible confluence of events and facts in this case. [00:32:57] Speaker B: Yeah, but I mean, so I know you said you don't know whether she is still alive or whatever. Do you know what they did once? Like, did they take her back? Did she have to, like, you know, did they just go, like, okay, and leave her in Sitka? Like, what. Do you have any sense of, like, what happened to her after the police showed up? [00:33:20] Speaker A: When. When you search for Jane Dee, the end of this case is super vague, right? [00:33:28] Speaker B: Okay? [00:33:29] Speaker A: All of this stuff exists. The details of the case, though, you know, how she was found, the life that she lived, the family that she built. But I can't find for love no money if she's still around or indeed where she ended up. Huh? What I do know is that when she was found initially, when she was found after all this time, In Alaska. She made it explicit to reporters. She gave. Simply gave him a handwritten note, wrote him a letter, handed them a note that said, I will not be talking to any members of the media at this time. My only interest is speaking to members of my own family. It feels again. And if. If somebody else knows different, please do let us know where Jane Dee ended up, because I simply cannot find that. [00:34:24] Speaker B: Oh, actually, I think I. I found one from 2017. Wicked, by the way. This is one of those things that I think is really fascinating that there is a difference between looking something up when you're in the UK and the US when it comes to stories about those respective countries. I've had this happen before where it's like, yeah, it comes up, like, immediately when I look something up, but I'm getting different search results than you are over there. [00:34:53] Speaker A: Yes. [00:34:55] Speaker B: And so it looks like I found an article from. What is this? The News Tribune. That's really vague. I don't know what. Okay, state the News Tribune is from. Doesn't say it on here, but scrolling down. So like I said, this is 2017. [00:35:11] Speaker A: Tacoma News Tribune. Tacoma News Tribune. That is the paper that she worked for. That is the paper that she worked at. [00:35:17] Speaker B: Yes. So like I said, 2017. It says, at 59, she's been Jane longer than she was Jody. She lives in Oregon, caring for her now ailing mother, the matriarch of the family that she forgot. Intensely private. She avoids social media and public attention. So it doesn't. Like, that's probably why it's so vague. Everything that you've seen, it looks like she does not want anyone talking about her attention. Doesn't say whether, like, you know, she's still married or anything like that or [00:35:49] Speaker A: what happened, but it's still alive or at least was in 2017. That would place her like 66, 65. [00:35:57] Speaker B: Oh, gosh. Yeah. How many years is that? Wait, 2017 is nine. Nine years ago. Listen, this is not a math podcast. [00:36:09] Speaker A: So good. It never has been, never will be. [00:36:12] Speaker B: Is that right? [00:36:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:14] Speaker B: 68 years. [00:36:15] Speaker A: What do they put in a gravestone when she dies? What are they. What name do they put on there? [00:36:18] Speaker B: Like, guessing. It sounds like she still goes by Jane. She doesn't. She doesn't go by her old name, which is. It's the commitment to the bit. [00:36:29] Speaker A: Yeah, it's either a disassociative fugue or a S Tier piece of selling. [00:36:36] Speaker B: Yes. I don't know. Up to yous to decide. [00:36:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, there are. There are kind of other notable cases Of Disassociative Fugue. Agatha Christie, for example, when she went fucking missing. Do you know about that episode? [00:36:52] Speaker B: Vaguely, yes. Was that real? Like I absolutely happened? Well, I mean, as in, like, she really went into the fugue or whatever. Or did she say that like Amy Semple McPherson. Right. [00:37:04] Speaker A: Well, this is it, doesn't it? We actually have a. I'll talk to Laura about this. Because she's an Agatha Christie. [00:37:12] Speaker B: Oh, is she like a scholar of Agatha Christie? [00:37:14] Speaker A: Loves Agatha Christie. [00:37:16] Speaker B: Amazing. [00:37:17] Speaker A: And we actually have a trip planned in half term, in a couple of weeks to go to her grave. [00:37:21] Speaker B: Oh, where's that? [00:37:23] Speaker A: Close by, within a drive. I don't know where exactly, but we're going there. [00:37:26] Speaker B: All right. [00:37:28] Speaker A: Yeah, so I'll let you know. I'll let you know. Maybe there'll be like a museum or a fucking leaflet or something we can take a look at. [00:37:33] Speaker B: Indeed. But let us know your thoughts. Do you think Jody faked it? I mean, Jane faked it, or is she really in a now 40 years disassociative fugue? [00:37:50] Speaker A: I think I've earned a Disassociative Fugue. [00:37:51] Speaker B: I'd quite enjoy one as a trade. Yeah. [00:37:56] Speaker A: Let me quote directly from my notes, if I may. [00:37:58] Speaker B: Yes, please do. [00:38:00] Speaker A: Look at these nerds. Oh, mise en scene. [00:38:03] Speaker B: I don't think anyone has ever said mise en scene in such a horny way before. [00:38:07] Speaker A: The way I whispered the word sex. Cannibal received. [00:38:10] Speaker B: Worst comes to worst. Mark, I'm willing to guillotine you for science. [00:38:14] Speaker A: Thank you. That's really, really sweet. It's cold outside, but my pancreas is talking to me. I'm fucking. I'm gonna leg it. [00:38:20] Speaker B: You know how I feel about that, Mark. [00:38:22] Speaker A: I think you feel great about it. Friends, welcome. It's time to settle down with your friends Corrigan and Marco here. And it's time to just spend a couple of moments accepting and inhabiting and becoming comfortable with the fact that the very world in which we all live is nothing but a big fucking bowl of filth. Don't you think? [00:39:00] Speaker B: Nothing. I don't know about that. [00:39:03] Speaker A: So fucking worn out. The systems that we work within the structures that fucking bind us. [00:39:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:14] Speaker A: The. The. The rules and laws that oppress us were built on rotten foundations. [00:39:21] Speaker B: It's true. [00:39:22] Speaker A: Structurally tinkered with. [00:39:23] Speaker B: Yes. [00:39:24] Speaker A: Modified and tinkered and tweaked with the sole purpose of feathering nests. Yeah. And making the rich richer. And we're all stuck in it. And it's killing us every single day. One Fucking inch incremental death by a thousand cuts. That is the planet that we inhabit. But let me tell you something else. There's a way out. There's a fucking way out of that truth. [00:39:55] Speaker B: And that is don't chat GPT our listeners right now. There's a way out. You know what you need to do? [00:40:04] Speaker A: Yeah. It'll probably give you instructions. There's a way out, and that is to focus on the moment. Focus on the day to day. Do the right thing by yourselves and by your family and by those you love. Help one another take solace and succor and comfort in art and the fucking sun on a cloud, a dawn, a sunset. Physical exertion and exercise. The kiss of a relative or an elderly. Fucking elderly what? Yeah, an elderly friend. Go and kiss somebody who's old, okay? They will appreciate that. And in those moments, you will find meaning. In those moments, you will find a purpose and a way to look beyond the stench that is the world in 2026. [00:41:03] Speaker B: You know, Mark, I've been kissed by an elderly person in a culinary way. [00:41:10] Speaker A: Interesting. [00:41:11] Speaker B: Yes. I. A thing about me, Marco, and I think you know this. We talked about this a little earlier. People talk to me a lot, you know. [00:41:22] Speaker A: Yeah, you've mentioned this before. People tend to just approach you, don't they? [00:41:25] Speaker B: Just out of nowhere. It is hilarious to me because I feel like all the pieces are in place for me to, like, not be the kind of person that you talk to, you know, like, I've got, like, tattoos and I'm black and like, all these kinds of things that you're like, on paper, this is the kind of person that, like, people don't approach. But I give off a vibe. I give off a vibe that people see me and they're like, must speak to. [00:41:55] Speaker A: On the tattoos thing, that might hold true until anyone actually pays any attention to what your tattoos are of. [00:42:02] Speaker B: Well, if you look at them closely, you know, they are not intimidating tattoos. In fact, the goldfish cracker gets a lot of response. Like, just. I'll be walking by and I'll hear like, little kids go, mom, goldfish cracker. [00:42:16] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:42:17] Speaker B: So granted. But like, when you look at someone, I mean, I don't know, this is just maybe me. I don't necessarily, like, examine people's tattoos. When I see them, I just go, oh, that person has ink or whatever. But yes, on paper, various things that should turn people off from talking to me. But they. They love it. My husband, too. Both of us have, like, just something written on Our face that says approach me. [00:42:43] Speaker A: Just interestingly, I do focus on what people have on them. I do focus, I think, and plenty of times on trains or, you know, on the tube or. I've been kind of. I've. I've been caught out, like, examining people's tattoos. I do it all the time. I do it at the gym. [00:43:01] Speaker B: Oh, no, I did it two fucking [00:43:03] Speaker A: day today in the co op. It was a fellow who had his legs covered in ink, and I was just fucking studying what they were. [00:43:10] Speaker B: But then, oh, yeah, why else? I mean, that's. My take on tattoos is like, if you're going to, like, adorn yourself with stuff, you can't be annoyed that people look at them. Yeah, but a lot of people don't feel that way, which I think is weird. I covered my body in ink, but please do not look at it. [00:43:31] Speaker A: I think you actually, you. You come across as very approachable. You come across as very interested and curious. You're a curiosity. [00:43:40] Speaker B: Great. Thank you. [00:43:41] Speaker A: You're curious. And I mean that as both a personality trait and a descriptor. [00:43:45] Speaker B: I'll take it. But one of the results of this was that I was at the grocery store a week or two ago and an old lady was picking out her groceries and sort of, you know, started involving me in that process. You know, where certain things are. I was told the bag. Spinach is down here. Yeah, it's over here. You. We're kind of shooting the shit as she picks out her vegetables and things like that. And then she gives me a gem mark. Now, I know you're a lasagna man. [00:44:20] Speaker A: Very much so. [00:44:20] Speaker B: You. You spend the time, you stay in the kitchen. You. You make that lasagna. [00:44:27] Speaker A: King of foods. [00:44:29] Speaker B: King of foods. I mean, it is. Lasagna is one of the greatest things in existence. However, for a lot of us, it's like a degree of time and work that we are not interested in investing. But this lady, she had a hack. She told me it came from her AARP magazine. Marco, you know what? An AARP magazine, right? [00:44:52] Speaker A: Say that again. Aarp. No clue. What is that a publication? Is it a journal? What is that? [00:45:01] Speaker B: It's a journal of old things is what it is. It's. It's an organization that. [00:45:09] Speaker A: Do you know what it stands for? [00:45:11] Speaker B: Not a fucking clue, bud. [00:45:12] Speaker A: A. A. I'll take it. Is the American association of Retired Persons. [00:45:21] Speaker B: That sounds. That sounds perfectly reasonable to me. [00:45:24] Speaker A: That's not bad. [00:45:25] Speaker B: I'm gonna Google it. [00:45:26] Speaker A: Honestly, if I've nailed that first try, [00:45:27] Speaker B: that'd Be pretty great. Like, honestly, I thought you were gonna come up with something more vulgar than that. What does it. What does it mean? [00:45:36] Speaker A: It's a nonpartisan organization dedicated to empowering Americans 50 and older. But what does it stand for? [00:45:42] Speaker B: Yeah, what does it see? It doesn't even say. It's like. We just all know. AARP is this thing that appears in your mailbox. [00:45:51] Speaker A: You are fucking American association of Retired Persons. [00:45:55] Speaker B: It's even persons, not people. [00:45:57] Speaker A: I'm fucking serious. [00:45:59] Speaker B: Mark Lewis. That is impressive. That is impressive. [00:46:06] Speaker A: The smile on my face right now. [00:46:08] Speaker B: Yes. If you could see him, he is so pleased with himself right now. Shock and delight at having nailed that. I never in a million years would have guessed that. [00:46:20] Speaker A: So what a win. What a win. [00:46:22] Speaker B: You can clearly tell this is an old organization, that it's an associate for retired persons, and you get it when you're 50. Certainly not a time when Americans retire. But yes. Print screen on a Mac, It's Shift Command 4 if you want to just get that window and then space. Anyways, she tells me that in her AARP magazine, she saw this recipe for making lasagna with ravioli. Because ravioli is already lasagna in terms of its ingredients. It's the noodles, it's the ricotta. You know, it's like. It's what you're putting in there. You just need the sauce and the motz on top of it. And so we have a horde of people coming into our house. That's why we're making this kind of a punchy joag today. Because my house is about to fill up with children and whatnot. My goddaughters are coming, and their mother and then their cousin Hazel, who lives in New York, and her girlfriend. I am going to make them ravioli lasagna today. [00:47:32] Speaker A: Lasagnoli. [00:47:33] Speaker B: Lasagnoli, raviana. [00:47:37] Speaker A: I don't necessarily agree, and I'll tell you for why. And this actually goes to the root of a lot of my bugbears with culture. In 2026, you will know. You will know that I am as much about the process as I am. [00:47:52] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I mean, as a person who cooks for myself and usually takes an hour to two hours to do it every day. [00:47:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:59] Speaker B: Totally on board with that. Yep. [00:48:02] Speaker A: It's. It's why I've got such a bug in my ass about Mountjaro and Ozempic. [00:48:08] Speaker B: Sure. [00:48:09] Speaker A: It's why I've got such a bug up my ass about learning through chatbots. [00:48:15] Speaker B: Right. [00:48:16] Speaker A: You know, it's. It's why. Ah, man, and this is difficult to admit because you're not going to enjoy this. And probably some people listening aren't going to enjoy this. It's why I. I don't. I still think audiobooks are cheating. [00:48:32] Speaker B: Well, blind people would disagree. [00:48:37] Speaker A: Hey, hey. Some of my best friends are blind. But I think anything. That's a generalization. But I think if something is worth doing, it takes time to do, man. You know what I mean? The product, you've got to earn it. You've got to fucking earn it. And cooking lasagna is one of those things. For me, the steps that it takes to get it into the oven are important. It's half term in a couple weeks, and you've reminded me I really must try out my. This idea I've got percolating in my head for what I think is going to be the most nuclear fucking beautiful lasagna of all time. [00:49:15] Speaker B: Oh, yes. I want to hear all about it. And I want to see pictures. I want the whole thing. [00:49:21] Speaker A: I'm gonna make it like normal, but I'm gonna put pepperoni in the meat. There you go. [00:49:25] Speaker B: Interesting. Okay. I don't know about that, but sure, I still want to see it. I mean, this is. You know, I am obsessed with cooking and food and all of that. And regularly, I will simply text you, what did you have for dinner? All the time? I'm not making that up. That is the thing. I regularly text Mark just out of nowhere. We haven't talked all day, and I'm like, what'd you have for dinner? And then Mark will explain what he made that night. So I am a big fan of the process, but I also think process has a place, you know, and, like, just like with audiobooks, like, I think they absolutely have a place. Like, I. There are things I process better in audio form than I do. Like, if I'm playing a video game and listening, especially, like, nonfiction, I have a much easier time processing that information in audio form than I do when I read and tend to. My eyes kind of blur and I stop reading things, you know? Yeah. So, like, there's a. There's a place for things. And I think when it comes to food, there's a difference between, you know, the. It's like how. To me, this is like how you might order McDonald's because you don't feel like cooking for a night. I don't order shit. And so my version of that is like, I have a bunch of people coming over. I'm recording a podcast first. I need to feed them, and I Know, the girls love ravioli. This is an easy way to put this thing together, you know, so it's like there's a time for the long lasagna, but there's a time for the raviana too. [00:51:02] Speaker A: I agree. And I'm also self aware enough to know that I am talking some high horse generalized there. Right? I do know that. I do know that. But I. There's. There's a. There's a kind of a little part of me that just hates a shortcut. I hate a shortcut. I hate. I hate taking a shortcut and pretending it's an achievement. That's what I hate. [00:51:31] Speaker B: Hmm. [00:51:32] Speaker A: That's what I hate. [00:51:33] Speaker B: Interesting. I mean, that's what I hate. In theory. I get it. But we live in a world of like, everything you do is a shortcut from what it was 50 years ago. [00:51:44] Speaker A: You know, it's very insightful, Corrigan. [00:51:48] Speaker B: It's just you just asked me how to take a screenshot using your keyboard on your Mac, you know, very literal shortcut. So, you know, I think that there's like, I get what you're saying to a degree. And I think during book club yesterday, we were talking about, like, the book that we read was not like an easy read, the Bar Incidence by Lauren Bulger, who we will have on the podcast in a couple weeks. But it was like, hard. You know, it's like work to read it, as opposed to most of the books that a lot of us read now, especially those of us who read a lot of books, tend to be a little easier to get through. They're an easy ride. Like, even if they're really good, they're not necessarily something you have to like, struggle through and like reread paragraphs of and things like that to, like, get the point. And I was thinking about it and I was like, you know, I think that's. I don't want that to be my all the time. You know, every book I read is a. Like, is hard. But I also think, like, it's. It is a good practice. Like, you're. What you are saying here of, like, sometimes you need something to like, be difficult for you, you know, like, that is. It doesn't have to be every single thing all the time. You take no shortcuts. But sometimes that's how we get. Is really good for you. [00:53:08] Speaker A: I think that's how you get to Wall E, isn't it? That's how you get there. [00:53:11] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. You don't want, like to turn off your brain all the time and like, never have to think hard about things. I was saying, I watched this video from this girl who used to be an educator and she was talking about like the ideas of like literary crisis and things like that. And what does that really mean? And she talked about like the sort of statistics for like half of US adults, their reading level is sixth grade, right? [00:53:42] Speaker A: Whoa. [00:53:43] Speaker B: Half of American adults read at a sixth grade level. And the important thing about that, what that means is if you're in sixth grade, you could read any word, right? You could look at it and you can read what that word says. What reading at a sixth grade level means is that then going beyond that and like interpreting things is where you get lost reading something and then trying to like make sense of like what are the greater themes and ideas being conveyed by this? You know, I must say this comes with a shock. Yeah, I mean, it is, it is a lot. And she cited, I mean, it's a well known study, you know, she wasn't pulling it out of her ass or whatever. But I think part of that is it's like, you know, we don't necessarily challenge ourselves with what we read. [00:54:34] Speaker A: That does come as a shock. That does come as a shock. [00:54:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:36] Speaker A: And that is not like an urgent priority for your Department of Education to address. Headed by Linda McMahon, right. [00:54:46] Speaker B: I'm like, well, for one thing, headed [00:54:48] Speaker A: by WWE's Linda McMahon. [00:54:50] Speaker B: And also functionally that's literate, right. Like you can fill out forms, you can do what you need to do in your day to day life with a sixth grade reading level. But, you know, is that enough? Right. So in a time at which like people are more and more like adhering to like pseudoscience and ending up on these like right wing pipelines as a result of this kind of thing and like not having the capacity to be able to like interpret research, you know, and interpret the things that you read and what experts are saying and then going, if I don't understand it, it's like conspiracy, you know, like this kind of thing is really important in that way. And so I don't know. [00:55:32] Speaker A: Why do I not know this? Why have we not spoken about this before? [00:55:34] Speaker B: Because, because I saw it in a video three days ago. [00:55:37] Speaker A: It's, it's, it really does feel like there's a dotted line there to today, right? Yes, Today's issues. [00:55:47] Speaker B: Yes, very much so. And that's kind of what populism and [00:55:50] Speaker A: polarization and such, right. [00:55:52] Speaker B: It's like if you don't, if you can't interpret what you read, then it's very easy to trick you with things and then you go on your endless scroll of TikTok where you never have to read anything and people are telling you, you know, what to believe. It's a problem. And so, yeah, it's just like, you know, this is an aside, I guess, but it's a thing that I was thinking about as we were talking about the book yesterday was just, you know, I think I was thinking back to like when I first got married. The two authors that I was like binging were Edith Wharton and John Steinbeck. Yeah, I was like, just deep diving reading like nom, nom, nom, nom, nom, nom, nom. Everything that they had ever published. And that's not easy stuff. Right. And I think I am definitely in a zone where like I read a ton, but it's not challenging necessarily. And I think it's, it's a good reminder to be like, you really gotta, you gotta use your brain a little bit. [00:56:53] Speaker A: I'm glad, yeah, I am glad to hear you say that because I mean, I'm reflecting on this discussion. I'm reflecting on, on, you know, my input there. And, and if it does, if it, if it shows me in a kind of a condescending light, I apologize. I. I don't mean it as such. And I am, I am self aware enough to know that, that, you know, that's maybe a little bit dis. Condescending of me. I don't know. [00:57:18] Speaker B: Right. Yeah, it's a thing where I'm like, I get the idea that you're conveying here. I don't think it's an across the board, everything should be the, you know, the toughest way possible. But I do think there is definitely value in doing things, at least sometimes the hard way. [00:57:36] Speaker A: Product follows process. It, it has to, you know, and [00:57:39] Speaker B: this was the thing also that, you know, I keep on saying I wish that I had published this 15 years ago when I had this thought in the first place or, you know, a decade ago when I was in grad school. Over a decade. But where, you know, I noticed and I've told you about this before, but like that students, you know, if they had a PDF on their laptop and it was facing the wrong direction, they turn their laptop right instead of oh, so good, you know, turning it. And there's like, people talk about how like students don't use keyboard shortcuts because they learned, you know, they're how to use their computer on like iPads and shit like that. Right. So they don't, they didn't go through, like, the troubleshooting and things like that that people our age went through of like, you know, I started if I wanted to run a program being like C, colon, slash, slash, you know, run like, whatever that whole thing, you know, I was in DOS when I started using computers. And I compared this to the fact that, like, we don't know how to fix a car or change our oil or things like that, right? Because it is easy to take it to someone to do that now, right? It's 25 bucks at jiffy Lube and someone's in and out and they fix your car. So why the fuck would you, you know, waste your time in your driveway, you know, under your car or over your car or whatever, fixing things on your car? It's so easy to it fixed now. And that that's what computers and stuff are to us as well, right? Like, we don't like younger people, streamlined, no friction. You don't have to try. So you lose these skills. But I've known people like Ben's older brother Jason, like, who consciously made an effort to, like, teach himself to change his oil, right? Or to change a tire or things like that. Like, even though you don't need that, but just because it's valuable to, like, make your brain go through the process of developing this skill, you know? [00:59:41] Speaker A: And I mean, learning arcane skills is rewarding personally, isn't it? There are people who make it their vocation, their hobby, like fucking Metallica, Dave and Aberystwyth making chain mail through into the long night. You know what I mean? Blacksmith now are a niche kind of artisan. [01:00:04] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. [01:00:05] Speaker A: Kind of pursuit as opposed to where you'd go to buy your forks, Right? [01:00:09] Speaker B: Yeah. Is it necessarily something that's like an everyday useful thing? No, but it's rewarding and it might have an audience too. But just all that to say that like, yeah, again, you know, I'm gonna go to Jiffy Lube, realistically. But is there some value in learning and challenging yourself? I think there is. [01:00:34] Speaker A: I hope I haven't. I hope I haven't lost any friends. [01:00:39] Speaker B: I'm still here. No matter how many times you say this dumbass shit about audiobooks. [01:00:46] Speaker A: Yeah, that's the one I do. I am aware that I'm wrong, probably, but it doesn't change that. I feel it. [01:00:54] Speaker B: Right. As long as you understand. You know, I'm probably wrong about this, but I can't overcome. [01:01:02] Speaker A: We've both. We're both. We've both, you know, me versus an audiobook user have both had the same content, the product is the same, but we've gone about it differently. And I'm just be. You know, it's a horrible point of view that I've got there, but I can't change it. [01:01:17] Speaker B: Yes. As long as you know that, that's fine. [01:01:19] Speaker A: Yes. Tell you the problem I got with books, right, Is that my reading time is. My routine is last thing at night before I go to bed, I'll spend 45 minutes to an hour in a book, right. But that's always when my sleep meds start to kick. So for the first 20 minutes every night, I'm just rereading the last fucking chapter anyway because I'm like, what the fuck has occurred? I have no idea who these people are. [01:01:46] Speaker B: Okay, tell me if you do this, because this is another thing I brought up at book club is, you know, you know when you fall asleep or you're starting to fall asleep, right? And you can feel dreams come in. Right. Like. And so a thing that I have a problem with when I'm reading a book before bed is when Fred gets you. That's when Freddie gets you. When I'm reading a book before bed is that I'll be reading and I'll start to drift to sleep and then the dreams kick in, and then I can't remember if the thing I was dreaming happened in the book or in my head. So then I have to go back and figure out, like, was this part [01:02:22] Speaker A: of the book or not when I was in the, you know, in the. In the, in the weird space back? [01:02:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:02:31] Speaker A: I became so acutely aware of that phase, and I would just look for it and wait for it and watch for it. I would just immediately recognize any thought in my head that I hadn't. [01:02:46] Speaker B: That's. Yeah, like, that's a weird one. [01:02:48] Speaker A: Oh, great. [01:02:48] Speaker B: Cool. [01:02:49] Speaker A: Things are going to be fine. I'm going to go to sleep. It's a big regret of mine that the routine I've built while it works, my current routine works fine. The med. The medication regime I'm on currently is just. It's. It's. It's holding and it's stable and fucking praise be for that. But I don't have that phase anymore, Right. It's more of a boing. It's more of a dropout. [01:03:11] Speaker B: You're done. [01:03:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I do miss that little thing, you know, it's in and out. Yeah, Yeah, I know for a fact. You won't. You won't have hear this, but if I were to say in the Night Garden. Does that ring any bells? [01:03:25] Speaker B: That actually does sound familiar, but I don't know why. [01:03:28] Speaker A: It's a kids show, okay? And Laura and I would watch it when Peter and Owen were toddlers. And in any media, adult kids, books, movies, tv, there is no other more accurate visualization or depiction I've ever seen of that phase. As in the Garden. Incredible. The theme, the tune. Please do. Right. Do me. Do me a. Do me a favor, Corey, when you've got a sec this week, just watch the opening and maybe the end credits for in the Night. Because it's so good. It brings a lump to my throat. It's beautiful. And it perfectly encapsulates that. That hint of land. It's beautiful. [01:04:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I will check it out. I do think. I was not thinking of in the Night Garden. What I was thinking of was the Night Kitchen by Maurice Sendak. [01:04:23] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, yeah, she read that one. [01:04:25] Speaker B: That was a favorite mine when I was a kid, but it was also, like, a little scandalous because it was, you know, the 80s, 90s or whatever. And so you could, like, get away with drawing naked children in your books. And so it's like. I mean, like, here's the thing. I. I think that that's, like, a good thing because it's like a kid's naked body shouldn't be sexual and weird. Your kid should be like, that kid has a penis. And that's fine, you know? But I do remember, even as a little kid being like, ooh, this little boy has a peen in here, and he's floating in milk with his little peen out. But yes, the Night Kitchen was like, a favorite of mine. I just remember. Well, every time I have. [01:05:09] Speaker A: Very funny. [01:05:14] Speaker B: Every time I drink milk, I think of this book because he said, he's floating in the milk. And he's like, not because of the peen. Because of a little. He has this little thing. He's like, I'm in the milk and the milk's in me. So every time I have a glass of milk, I'm like, I'm in the milk and the milk's in me. [01:05:33] Speaker A: Very nice. [01:05:34] Speaker B: Good old Maurice Sendak. Well, we have rambled in our punchy episode, but shall we talk about some watches before we. [01:05:44] Speaker A: We can do. Listen. What a shit week for movies. [01:05:49] Speaker B: I haven't had that bad of a week of movies. [01:05:52] Speaker A: Let me just see here. What a shit week it has been. [01:05:58] Speaker B: Well, we did watch one together that was indeed deeply shit. We watched the Shudder Original Body Cam. [01:06:07] Speaker A: Let's just say Right. In much the same way as the content vetting team at Facebook. Right. Corry and I are out here absorbing this shit for you so you don't have to. I'm not saying we deserve your thanks or you know, a salute, thank you for your service, but we watch a lot of shit and tell you not to watch it so you don't have to. Right. [01:06:32] Speaker B: Yep. Listen, occasionally we watch good things too. Like this week, I believe it was Alyssa who watched Exorcist 3 because we'd talked about it, but. And really enjoyed it. And Andy watched Targets because we watched. We talked about it. So we do both ends of this. Sometimes people watch things that we talked about and it's delightful and other times we can warn you off, which I think is the case with body cam. [01:06:59] Speaker A: Body cam. Good God. Good. [01:07:02] Speaker B: Just. I wish I. You know, I'm not going to do this because I'll forget by the time we record this, but I'd love to just put in the video you sent me after we finished this. The audio of that video where you just described what an incredible nothing burger this entire movie was, you were so upset about, [01:07:22] Speaker A: was just. I've often said that I would rather hate to film than I would be nonplussed by a film, be left cold by a film. This is a perfect example of that. I'm not sorry I watched it, but I fucking hate it. [01:07:34] Speaker B: I hate this fucking film because it really. It's nothing. It's a movie, you know, ostensibly kind of an ACAB movie, but it doesn't say enough to really be that where it's like, you know, these cops you're watching through their body cam as they go to this sort of drug addled area of like slum of a city and they encounter these people in a house, I guess they're called there for like a domestic or something of that nature. And in the process of this, they end up killing a man, a woman and a baby. And then you're watching the sort of unfolding after this, but it just. It has nothing to say about like, about cops, it has nothing to say about drugs, it has nothing to say about anything that's happening in it while also being fully unscary. It's like not a moment of scare [01:08:27] Speaker A: once at the same time. Just being so openly, cravenly derivative. [01:08:35] Speaker B: Yes. [01:08:35] Speaker A: It's just every single thing this movie does or every single thing it tries to execute just makes you wish you were watching the sources that it. That it's helping itself to 1000%. Just awful. Just awful. In. In. In terms of performance, execution, visuals, it is amateurish. It is just flimsy. No scares. No, it adds nothing to the conversation. It adds absolutely nothing. Terrible, terrible movie. [01:09:11] Speaker B: So we would say skip body cam. [01:09:14] Speaker A: Now. I will talk. I will speak of Whistle. [01:09:17] Speaker B: Right. Which unfortunately I did not get to. I apologize because you did ask me specifically to watch this in the. In the. Wait, let me just quickly look how you told me to watch this because it was the worst sell that I have ever seen. You said to me, hey, you should check out Whistle if you have a space. The best 2.5 star horror you could wish for. Derivative, lazy, formulaic horror with a couple of the best skills you'll have seen in years and lots of fun in spite of itself. [01:09:49] Speaker A: That's it. Listen, that is pretty much exactly what I was about to say. As a absolute transverse of body cam, this is an object lesson that you can be derivative and still be fun. Right? Whistle doesn't have a single idea of its own. [01:10:04] Speaker B: Right. [01:10:05] Speaker A: It is Final Destination and it's Evil Dead and it's God knows how many other it follows. Death is coming for you. Fucking movies. Right? [01:10:14] Speaker B: Okay. [01:10:16] Speaker A: Characters that you could hold up to a light bulb and see directly through, but I tell you what, it motors. Oh, this film fucking chugs along. And there are. There's at least one kill in Whistle which is visionary in how fucking good it is. [01:10:36] Speaker B: Okay, let me. I will watch it. I will for sure watch it. [01:10:40] Speaker A: Let me tell you, you will know it when you see it. And you are gonna message me. There is a absolute standing ovation kill in this film for the ages. So, yes, or put this on the poster. The best two and a half star horror film I've seen in a long time. [01:11:00] Speaker B: It's like, I remember there was. I wish I could remember what movie it was, but there was a movie a couple years ago that put like, the star ratings that each, like, you know, reviewer had given it, and there was one that had gotten like a three star. They just kind of like put it in the middle of things so it looked like it had gotten cut off, [01:11:17] Speaker A: but it was the Cray Twins movie that had two Tom Hardys in it. [01:11:21] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I think you're right. [01:11:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:11:23] Speaker B: Cray Cray, as Brienne calls it. [01:11:27] Speaker A: Very nice. Brienne just hid two stars behind. [01:11:30] Speaker B: Yeah, this is so brilliant. I just love that. [01:11:34] Speaker A: Very good, very good. [01:11:35] Speaker B: Yeah, I watched another movie that, like, you know, while we're on the, like, not as good movies, I did watch Death Wish this week. [01:11:44] Speaker A: Oh, yeah? Okay. [01:11:45] Speaker B: Have you Seen it before. [01:11:46] Speaker A: I have seen Death Wish. Yes. [01:11:47] Speaker B: Yeah. I, my expectations were all wrong for that movie because the way that it's a crime thriller. It's what? [01:11:58] Speaker A: It's a crime thriller. [01:11:59] Speaker B: So like, and using thriller really lightly because it's mostly just like a guy being like kind of upset and then like occasionally shooting somebody. [01:12:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:12:12] Speaker B: And like it's not thrilling at all. And Charles Bronson is not good in it. He has like no emotional depth whatsoever. But like the way that people talk about it and with a title like Death Wish, I thought it was gonna be really badass, you know, Like, I thought that this was gonna be like, I don't know, like he needed to do some martial arts or something and not just get like glared at sometimes and shoot. [01:12:35] Speaker A: I had exactly, exactly the same jarring kind of outcome of Death Wish. I was expecting something like badly tenant, something like thriller, killer, something grimy, something. Yeah, you know, rain and blood soaked. And it just isn't that it's about going about his day to day life. [01:12:50] Speaker B: Right. Like, and it's like a revenge movie in which he doesn't get revenge on the people who committed the crime, which it's such conservative propaganda, like very war on crime propaganda where it's just like, oh, everybody around is bad and the cities and the subways are terrible. And who's looking out for cheat for you? This vigilante and the cops are gonna cover for him. And like, it's just, oh my God. I was like, this is not the movie that I thought it was. So I was very surprised. [01:13:21] Speaker A: What led you to Death Wish this week? [01:13:24] Speaker B: As I mentioned a few weeks ago, I've been trying to clear my DVR and because I record every time I like watch one thing, I record like 8 more things on T. DM except like old movies for days. So I was like, all right, all right, all right. This one is, you know, 80 minutes or whatever. I'm gonna knock this one out. [01:13:46] Speaker A: 60 million podcasts out there, right? This is the only one this week that spoke about Jane D. And in the Night Garden. I guarantee you guarantee you won't get that from any other podcast. I'll just piss on Scream 7 Briefly, if I may. [01:14:04] Speaker B: Yes. Which of course he stole. He did not pay money for Scream. [01:14:07] Speaker A: Oh, listen. Oh man, did I steal. I, I, I would steal it twice. Scream. Best way I can describe Scream 7 is it is in real life what I thought the Scream franchise was before going back and rewatching it last year. [01:14:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I think I mentioned on here that one of the reviews that I liked of this movie was that it's watching Scream become Stab in real time, which is basically what you thought of it before. [01:14:39] Speaker A: There's a weird flat tone to scream 7. Everybody concerned just isn't into it, man. No one feels like their heart is in it, you know, which is particularly strange that, considering Kevin Williamson is back to direct. [01:14:58] Speaker B: Yeah. Bizarre. You would think that that would be like, okay, great, return to form or whatever. [01:15:03] Speaker A: I found myself. There are shots where the score is doing a lot of the work, right? Where people are just standing motionless in a room while the score builds. This incredibly fucking. Does its best to carry this incredible drama. And I found myself thinking about what a day on set was like on Scream 7, right? And they're just filming. People stood about having conversations, and then it gets into the fucking edit and they bang the bomb. Bomb. Boh bom. Ah, man, it's. It's lifeless. One star. But again, much like Whistle, that entire star was for two kills. [01:15:41] Speaker B: Okay? [01:15:42] Speaker A: There are two. [01:15:43] Speaker B: I mean, it's Scream. There better be at least two. Oh, there are lots of kills that are worthwhile. [01:15:48] Speaker A: Two in particular. I'm. I'm a mark for a kill, right? I'll give you a good. I'll give you half a star for. For. For a. An imaginative kill. And there are two kills in Scream 2, which I can't. I have to give you a star for that. Whoever wrote that, whoever committed that to paper, whoever wrote that down, you get a star. [01:16:05] Speaker B: Good on you, you sicko. [01:16:07] Speaker A: The rest of you get no stars. [01:16:11] Speaker B: It's really unfortunate, too, because this one has what probably would have, like, popped me like nobody's business before, which is Ethan Embry is in it. You know, who I've been obsessed with since I was 13 years old. [01:16:24] Speaker A: I like Joel McHale as well. I like him. I like him. [01:16:26] Speaker B: I don't give a shit about Joe McHale. Like, he's fine. He's not, like, gonna sell him anything. But, you know, Ethan Emery is a selling point on something. [01:16:36] Speaker A: But, I mean, as you will no doubt have read, others put more eloquently than I could, the Where's. What are you saying here? [01:16:47] Speaker B: Right? You can't just walk up to the commentary. [01:16:50] Speaker A: Yeah. You can't just rock up at this point in the franchise. And I sound like I'm in a fucking Scream film now. But you can't just turn up here a part 7 with nothing to say. [01:17:01] Speaker B: Right? Yeah, that's insulting. [01:17:04] Speaker A: Jason went to. Jason was going to Manhattan by this point. Freddie was Dead by this point. [01:17:11] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, it feels like you should have to care this far into the. Either it jumps the shark ages ago or at this point, if you've been making your points the whole time, you need to care. [01:17:21] Speaker A: Leprechaun was in the hood by this [01:17:23] Speaker B: point, long before this. [01:17:25] Speaker A: Yeah, you gotta have something to say, man. And for a franchise which fucking lives and dies on every single chapter having something to say. [01:17:33] Speaker B: Right. [01:17:34] Speaker A: This has nothing to say. [01:17:36] Speaker B: Which is like in a time like now, to have nothing to say is unforgivable. [01:17:41] Speaker A: Beautifully, beautifully put. What a eulogy. And it is such a sadness that it's made the most money out of any of you. [01:17:49] Speaker B: Don't understand it. Everyone hates it, but it's made an insane amount of money. [01:17:53] Speaker A: Isn't that sad? [01:17:56] Speaker B: It's sad. It's just sad. [01:17:57] Speaker A: It's upsetting, deeply upsetting to me. [01:17:59] Speaker B: You know, it made a lot of money. That deserves it though. Ooh, Project Hail Mary. [01:18:05] Speaker A: Okay. [01:18:05] Speaker B: Yes. [01:18:06] Speaker A: People like that, huh? [01:18:07] Speaker B: Absolute delight. It made the most money of any non franchise film ever on its opening day. And I was amongst those people. And it is just wonderful. I would say Project Hail Mary is a live action Pixar movie and I mean that in the most positive way possible. And I think one of the things that I really love about it is that it is like filmmaking. You know, they, the, the alien in it is a puppet. It's not cgi. It is manned by a man, you know, which is very cool. They used as minimal CGI as they could in a space movie. You know, the whole movie feels like you could touch it. You know, nothing feels like he's on, you know, a set somewhere. Everything feels real in this movie. It has a beautiful score that just, just. I mean, every time you kind of let yourself get wrapped up in it, you're like, this is so good. This is so good. Great characters, you know, the peril, the emotions. It makes you laugh, it makes you cry. It is just the absolute gamut of things. I was thinking like, you know, this is obviously going to go down as like one of the greats, of course. But I was just thinking like, if you put this out, you know, 30, 40 years ago, like we would be talking about this, like we talk about Jaws, like we talk about incredible, incredible hyper. It's. This is one of those movies that is just like, it's why you go to movies, it's why we like science fiction. [01:19:44] Speaker A: A current film. In the same breath as Jaws. [01:19:47] Speaker B: Exactly. Right. Like, this is the kind of thing that like People would have gone to see and it would have been like, it would have been playing in theaters for a year after they put it out. If this came out, you know, in the 70s or 80s or whatever, it's just. It's got something for everyone in it. It's so moving. It's so sweet. It gets you really stressed out. It's just the whole package, you know, it is a delight. So if you are thinking, do I want to go see that? Go see project Hail Mary in the theater. Highly recommend it. [01:20:20] Speaker A: I hope it's still around. We got a next because I am lunging for the finish line. I don't know if I've talked to this before, but in my work, our holiday year runs April to April, right. April and March. And I've always burned through all my holidays by December, every year. So that stretch between January and April is an absolute. [01:20:42] Speaker B: But I'm really almost there. Almost there. Yeah. Take the kids. They're gonna have a fun time with it. It is, right? It is a delight. I'm sure it will still be in the theaters in a couple weeks. [01:20:52] Speaker A: Okay, good. I would hope so. Yeah. Sold. Sold. [01:20:56] Speaker B: Yeah. I think you're. You're gonna cry. Okay. You're a crying boy big time. [01:21:03] Speaker A: I can. I could cry now. Say something nice to me now and I'll cry. [01:21:06] Speaker B: I'm just gonna tell you about the. The opening and the closing to the. In the. In the Night Garden or. What else did you watch? I've got one more. But what do you got going? [01:21:21] Speaker A: I mean, don't quite know why, but I was seized by the desire to watch Logan. So I did tell it beautifully. Oh, God. God, that's held up. [01:21:31] Speaker B: Beautiful. How old is that movie now? [01:21:34] Speaker A: Nine years. It was 2017, I want to say. Yep. And. Right. For about a day. For how long was. Was Hugh Jackman, Wolverine before that? Like a decade. [01:21:47] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, was it 2000? The original X Men? [01:21:51] Speaker A: They fuck me that long. Good God. Logan is. Every time Wolverine was on screen in. In one of those other X Men films, I was just. Please stab some cunt in the head with your. Please do that. Just. Just please. And he never did. But in Logan, like every 10 minutes, he stabs some kind of his life. So Logan is almost like a kind of a cathartic kind of. Ah. [01:22:17] Speaker B: She waited 17 years for that. [01:22:19] Speaker A: 17 years to see Hugh Jackman stabbed some cunt in the head with his knives. And he does it all the time. So good. [01:22:27] Speaker B: Amazing. [01:22:29] Speaker A: Four stars. [01:22:30] Speaker B: Four stars. The other thing that I watched that was also delightful. Is I finally got around to watching your monster with Melissa Barrera? Nope. So Melissa Barrera, obviously the one fired from Scream for being pro Palestine. [01:22:50] Speaker A: Yes, yes, of course. [01:22:52] Speaker B: And she then was sort of going hard on talking about this movie that she was in called your monster, but I couldn't really get like a read on what it was. And it's, it's great. It's really cute. It's like a romantic horror, if you will. Romor in which she plays this. She has aspirations to be a Broadway actress and she is dating a celebrated playwright and they've been working together to create this Broadway musical. And then she gets cancer and he breaks up with her because he's sick of taking care of someone with cancer and. But he decides to put on the play with the part that was written for her but without telling her that he's putting it on. So then she finds out through other people that this show is going to go on without her. And so, you know, she's moved back into her mother's home while all of this is going on and then discovers there is an actual monster in her closet and that monster wants her to move out. But it becomes like this sort of Beauty and the beast type thing but then gets twisted as it goes along. But so it's got this very dark edge to it and to like where it goes at the end of the movie while also never not being very light and cute. It really threads this needle of being like this is actually very twisted. While like you're not really thinking that the whole time. You're just like, this is really sweet. [01:24:27] Speaker A: So I find myself unsure of the tone of this film. [01:24:31] Speaker B: That was how I. That's how I felt. What about like, that's why it took me so long to watch it is because I was like, I can't get a read on what the tone of this is. And it's for adults for sure. It's not a, it's not a kids movie. [01:24:42] Speaker A: Okay. [01:24:42] Speaker B: Okay. But yeah, it's like, I think like a Rom horror is the best I could describe in it. It's not like gory or anything until the end of it, but it's just, it's just an interesting, cute little indie movie with great chemistry between the leads and a sort of low key twisted story behind it. And it was fantastic. I big time recommend your monster. It's just a really fun time. [01:25:09] Speaker A: Right? You've given me two there that I absolutely am gonna watch. I'm gonna watch your monster. I'm gonna watch Project Hail Mary. Thank you. [01:25:15] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm not sure what you're gonna make of your monster. Cause I can never tell what you're gonna think of, like, something I don't know, outside of your genre. [01:25:21] Speaker A: But I'll tell you, a movie that I really, really fucking enjoyed that I think might be in this Wheelhouse is Love and Monsters, the one with the. [01:25:30] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Right. Yeah. No, I think, like, if you. Now I think about it, if you enjoy something like that, that just, like, it's cute, and then it also has, like, this horror element to it, but, like, not strong horror by any stretch of the imagination. [01:25:45] Speaker A: Yeah, Middle column. [01:25:47] Speaker B: Very middle column. Like, honestly, like, you could watch it with your kids. I think in America you probably wouldn't because there's, like, sex. There's no nudity, but there's, like, sex and things in that. But, like. Yeah, honestly, there's nothing that's, like, super offensive in this movie or anything like that. But, yeah, it's. I recommend your monster. It's a. It's a good time. [01:26:09] Speaker A: I' ma watch it. [01:26:10] Speaker B: Good. Anything else to add? [01:26:14] Speaker A: Well, Nuremberg. [01:26:16] Speaker B: Oh, I've been thinking about watching that one. Was. Is it worthwhile? [01:26:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:26:20] Speaker B: I like a Russell Crowe. I like Fat Crow a lot. [01:26:24] Speaker A: I like Russell Crowe and I like the direction his career has gone in. He's one of those. He's one of those that maybe if you'd gone back 25 years, you would not have been able to have predicted where he is now. Like, you're like a Nick Cage, you know? [01:26:38] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. [01:26:40] Speaker A: He's doing. He's. He's doing good work. You know, Nuremberg is. Is. I was initially, for the first kind of third of this film, I was like. It's a bit glossy for the subject matter. [01:26:53] Speaker B: Right, right. [01:26:55] Speaker A: It's very slick. And obviously, as the title will infer, it's a movie about the events leading up to, the processes leading up to, and the people involved in bringing the Nazi high command to justice at Nuremberg in the 1940s. And for a topic like that, it is. It's made very palatable in terms of its cinematography and the shortcuts that I think it takes. [01:27:25] Speaker B: Sure. [01:27:26] Speaker A: You know, Rami Malek's psychiatrist, he's kooky and he does card tricks, you know, and he's. [01:27:32] Speaker B: Oh, boy. [01:27:33] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure, for sure, for sure. There. You know, there's lots of. It's. It's. [01:27:39] Speaker B: It's. [01:27:40] Speaker A: It's Nuremberg via Netflix. That's how it feels. [01:27:44] Speaker B: Sure. Yeah. [01:27:45] Speaker A: Right. On the other hand, on the other hand, it does not fuck about when it gets where it's going. [01:27:54] Speaker B: Okay. [01:27:56] Speaker A: You it all. If I'm to be generous, I could stretch to thinking that that's intentional, making [01:28:08] Speaker B: it like a very shift. [01:28:10] Speaker A: Because when it gets where it's going, you see archival footage of atrocities, man, you see Nazis dangling from cords, pissing their pants. [01:28:19] Speaker B: Nice. [01:28:20] Speaker A: It pays off. You are. There's absolutely no. But real monsters. [01:28:28] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. [01:28:29] Speaker A: There's none of that. [01:28:30] Speaker B: Oh, you know, I love that. I love a straight up the Nazis movie. [01:28:34] Speaker A: And that's exactly what you get here. You know, they hang, they die and you, you know, you. It. It absolutely tries its best in so much as a two hour movie can. Sure to convey the weight and the gravity and the atrocity that these men were on trial for. And when they die, they die. But you know, I don't know if that was. I'd rather read. I don't know. I don't know. I don't. I don't need a Hollywood version of that. Thank you. [01:29:05] Speaker B: Of course. Right, yeah, that's understandable. But I do, Yeah, I do always enjoy a Nazis get what coming to them vibe. And I like Russell Crowe, so I feel like that's definitely one on my list. [01:29:18] Speaker A: How do you feel about Rami Malek? [01:29:21] Speaker B: This is a very complicated thing because I loved Rami Malek. If you've ever seen the Pacific, he's a delightful crazy person in there. Mr. Robot, all that kind of stuff. However, he dated a friend of a friend and he was apparently extremely emotionally abusive during that relationship. [01:29:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:29:41] Speaker B: So it's like always kind of like a weird. Like it's not something that's like out in public, people don't know this. And thus whenever he's like in something, it's a weird like, ah, I don't, I don't know what to do with. With that. So. [01:30:04] Speaker A: Yeah, well, obviously it's next week's cold open. I'll tell you what to do with it. [01:30:10] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I. Yeah. So that's my. He's entertaining enough to watch, I guess, but I've just got baggage in that way. [01:30:20] Speaker A: In the Night Garden, Rami Malik is an abuser and the disappearance of a journalist in a. In a psychogenic fugue. You just. [01:30:28] Speaker B: Only here you can look. [01:30:30] Speaker A: You can search for that kind of fucking content. You won't find it. You'll only find it here with us with your friends Mark and Corrigan on Jack of All Graves. [01:30:37] Speaker B: Here, here. So until next time, friends. You know, why don't you go ahead and stay spooky. Yeah, yeah.