Ep. 209: the dark monk of the airbnb & people who prep

[00:00:04] Speaker A: I will start, if I may, tonight. Tonight on tonight's episode of Jack of All Graves. I will start tonight, if I may, by reading to you from a website, the address of which is 30eastdrive.com30eastdrive.com all one word. [00:00:22] Speaker B: Okay. [00:00:23] Speaker A: Okay, you ready? 30 East Drive, Pontefract is not CAPS, a traditional guest house, hotel, BNB or party venue. And the owner recommends that you do not visit, especially if you're of a nervous disposition or have a heart condition. [00:00:44] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:00:46] Speaker A: For 30 East Drive, Pontefract is now a commercial enterprise. Right. It is a guest house, it is a hotel. But as I've just said, there one that the owner himself bids you do not Visit. [00:01:04] Speaker B: It's like 1408, right? 1408, the Stephen King movie slash short story. Well, where it's, you know, in the movie, John Cusack goes to the hotel because he. He writes about places that are haunted and stuff like that. And then Samuel L. Jackson is the hotel owner and he's like, sir, we can't give you that room. We'll give you anywhere else. And he's like, fuck you. I've been to a million places that do this song and dance with me about, oh, we can't give you that room. [00:01:33] Speaker A: But exactly this. The guy who now owns. Well, we'll get to him. The guy who now owns 30 East Drive, Pontefract, actually produced a movie about it a couple of years ago. [00:01:46] Speaker B: Pontefract? [00:01:47] Speaker A: Pontefract, yes, Pontefract in Yorkshire. Pontefract, West Yorkshire in the uk. So you've been to the uk, right? You know, you've got previous with this sceptered isle. If I were to ask you to picture a typical kind of Ukraine council house, a typical UK terraced home, just do that for me. And. [00:02:14] Speaker B: Which I now know what that means. [00:02:15] Speaker A: There you go. [00:02:16] Speaker B: Yes. [00:02:17] Speaker A: If you were to picture it, you'd be. You'd be pretty close to the reality. [00:02:22] Speaker B: A row of probably like brick houses, like, all connected to each other. [00:02:27] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:02:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:28] Speaker A: Narrow street, you know, quite typical post war rebuilding, you know. [00:02:36] Speaker B: Mm, that makes sense. [00:02:38] Speaker A: But what if I told you that this particular dress, 30 East Drive, Pontefract, is widely regarded as one of the UK's most spookiest and terrifyingly haunted properties. [00:02:56] Speaker B: I can't believe I've never heard of this. [00:02:58] Speaker A: What if I fucking told you that? What would you think? [00:03:01] Speaker B: Ooh, I'm excited to hear. You should be. [00:03:04] Speaker A: Well, you should be terrified. [00:03:05] Speaker B: And it's. Well, obviously, first and foremost, terrified. And this Is. I'm sure you're going to explain this, but this. So it's just an irregular row of like council estate type situation. [00:03:18] Speaker A: Corrigan. [00:03:19] Speaker B: Where we like. [00:03:19] Speaker A: We'll get there. Hit me. [00:03:21] Speaker B: Okay. Does it feel good to say that to me? [00:03:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I love it, I love it, I love it. [00:03:26] Speaker B: Okay, good, good, good, good, good. [00:03:27] Speaker A: A typical house. Yes, but not so much a typical town. Right. Let me talk to you a little bit about Pontefract. [00:03:33] Speaker B: Pontefract. That is such an interesting name. [00:03:37] Speaker A: Fascinating that you will not appear a bit. Pontefract. P O N T E F R A C T. Pontefract in West Yorkshire. Now, the very name, the very title gives you a little hint of Pontefract's history, right? It means based on pons fractus. Latin means broken bridge. Right. [00:03:59] Speaker B: And that makes sense, like bont in Welsh. [00:04:02] Speaker A: There you go. Yes, yes. God, you're so erudite, aren't you? You know, you're so worldly. Now, ponder, frakt has a. A big part to play. It's more than a footnote in British history, Right. It actually played a lot of key roles in the English Civil War. The English Civil War left huge kind of cultural and physical scars on Pontefract. It was the home of a castle, Pontefract Castle, which was, you know, often kind of changed hands between forces, between royalists, parliamentarians. The town was a fucking battleground. [00:04:44] Speaker B: Sorry, I got so excited. Yeah. And we're talking like North Eastern England, right? [00:04:54] Speaker A: Exactly this Yorkshire. So just the bits that, you know, Birmingham keep going past, you got Lincoln keep going past, past, past up to Scotland, but don't go that far. You want to stop. You want to stop in Yorkshire. [00:05:07] Speaker B: Got it. [00:05:08] Speaker A: Right. Major conflict in Pontefract happened around the English Civil War. Like I said, loss of life constant. People living under the constant threat of siege and violence. But even before that, Pontefract was a hotbed of activity around the Tudor times. Right. You know, a big Tudor head, big Tudor fan. [00:05:34] Speaker B: Yeah, I know that. That's your. That's your thing. [00:05:36] Speaker A: Now, obviously, I'm a Tudor guy. And during the Tudor period, so Henry viii, when he dissolved the kind of the monasteries. His dissolution of the monasteries. So the 1500s, 1530s, Pontefract was scarred deeply by that. Monasteries were dismantled, were closed. Monks were violently, violently executed or scattered hither, thither and yon. This break from the Catholic Church. So displacement of religious figures, displacement of monks, destruction of their way of life imprisonment, execution and a monk's execution. Was often quite a public spectacle, right? It was a. It was a. It was a message. It was a warning shot. It was designed. [00:06:26] Speaker B: Yeah, Brits did love that back in the day, huh? Like a good chop. Send a message. [00:06:31] Speaker A: Public off. [00:06:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:32] Speaker A: Get their heads on pikes. This is what we're talking about here. The one monk in particular, right? One monk in particular who was, history tells us, was part of Pontefract Priory, which was a monastery dedicated to St. John, founded in 1090. Now this one monk, a defiant bastard, right, refused to surrender his faith, his God. He was historically said to have been executed near the site where 30 East Drive now stands. [00:07:15] Speaker B: Ooh. [00:07:17] Speaker A: All right. [00:07:18] Speaker B: All right. What do they do to them? [00:07:20] Speaker A: So just chew on that for a fucking second. I'll tell you someone else about the site where that house now stands. [00:07:29] Speaker B: Wait, are you not going to tell me how they killed this guy? [00:07:31] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:07:32] Speaker B: Oh, okay. You just know it's brutal. [00:07:34] Speaker A: All I can tell you is that they fucked him up. Right? [00:07:38] Speaker B: And they did it near the place where this house is. [00:07:40] Speaker A: What is. What I can also tell you about that estate. It's known as the Checkerfield Estate. The land, it is said, was also used as a plague pit. [00:07:54] Speaker B: Ooh. [00:07:55] Speaker A: Yeah. A mass grave. A mass internal site for victims of one of the many outbreaks of plague that swept through Europe. So we got public executions, we've got civil war, We've got a whole bunch of fuckery happening on that site. Suffering, death, historical trauma. Way better. Way better for a fucking ghost story. [00:08:22] Speaker B: Yeah, it sounds like the house from the show Ghosts. [00:08:27] Speaker A: There you go. Yes. Almost like. [00:08:28] Speaker B: It's just like a house that's. Yeah. Been there a minute and. Right. All these different things over the course of history happened to have happened there. [00:08:37] Speaker A: Exactly this. So please, won't you come with me to ponder fract to August 1966, where you have a working class couple known as called Joe and Jean Pritchard. Okay. Moved into. [00:08:57] Speaker B: Name sounds vaguely familiar. Go on. [00:08:59] Speaker A: Okay, well, they moved into this address, 30 East Drive. They moved in with their two children, Philip and Diana Diane Pritchard. And as I've said, this is a very typical house. Typical council house, basic but adequate lodgings. You know, like I said, post war rebuilding. They wanted change, they wanted a new start. And that was initially what they got. But very quickly, the fuckery begins. Right, if I'm gonna. Okay, if. If I'm gonna use the word poltergeist. Right. [00:09:33] Speaker B: Yeah. Mm. [00:09:34] Speaker A: The first inclination they had that something was afoot was Strange, mysterious pools of water would appear on the floors. Right, right. And plumbers were called in thoroughly, you know, inspecting the radiators, the pipes, the ceilings, the lofts, the drains, but nothing was found to be a problem. But yet these spooky ass fucking pools of water would materialize seemingly out of thin air. And then. And then, Corrigan, came the moving objects. [00:10:11] Speaker B: Of course. [00:10:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Then came the items that would switch position. Then came the lights that would flicker erratically. The electricity in the house seemingly with its own fucking agenda, switching on and off as if. As if an unseen hand. Corey. Was fucking with the switches. Yes. [00:10:37] Speaker B: Can you imagine? Like, let's just for a moment, there's like all these switches going on and off and things like that. And it's just like some 16th century monk who's like, ooh, I've never seen one of these before. Look what I can do. What is this magic? I can make the sun come up and down, up and down and up and down. That's my head cannon already. [00:11:03] Speaker A: Well, he was behind it all. I'm just gonna say right now that it was him. [00:11:10] Speaker B: Okay, it was him. [00:11:11] Speaker A: But things escalated, Right? Things escalated from plumbing phenomena and electrical disturbances to the more violent activity. It is said in many a place, many local press reported on this, that a peculiar, foul smelling, green, frothing, foamy substance, let's call it ectoplasm. [00:11:39] Speaker B: Yeah, why not? [00:11:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Began to seep from the walls, from the taps kind of again, you know, plumbers were called in, professionals were called in to look at this. This. This weird, viscous, oily, oozy, fucking stinky, strange substance bubbling out almost of the very fabric of their home. Yeah. Yeah. And then things got even more violent. So heavy furniture would start to move across the room on its own without any hand pushing or pulling it. Pictures would be ripped from the walls, glass would shatter, debris would be strewn around the house. Household objects hurled seemingly under their own force across rooms. And as is often the case in events like this. [00:12:39] Speaker B: Yes. [00:12:40] Speaker A: The younger daughter, Diane, became somehow the fucking focus of this activity. [00:12:47] Speaker B: Yes, yes. [00:12:48] Speaker A: All seeming to center around Diane. One incident in particular, which is well documented, involved her being dragged up the stairs, seemingly by her hair. [00:13:03] Speaker B: Ow. [00:13:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Leaving visible marks upon her body, her neck, her skin. The family recounted this in interviews. [00:13:15] Speaker B: Sure. [00:13:15] Speaker A: Visibly and quite understandably traumatized, you know? [00:13:20] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. [00:13:22] Speaker A: Now, at this point, it's worth saying independent verification of these events is somewhat missing. [00:13:34] Speaker B: Mmm. Really? [00:13:36] Speaker A: However, don't write it off, Corey. Don't be a. [00:13:39] Speaker B: Hey, no. Heaven forbid. [00:13:42] Speaker A: Because what is in Place is the. The family's testimony is consistent. [00:13:47] Speaker B: Hmm. [00:13:48] Speaker A: You know, and they. You know, they. The trauma that they display in interviews is consistent and legitimate. Seemingly. All right. [00:13:57] Speaker B: Did you watch any, like, were they video or just read, like, there's a lot of printer. [00:14:03] Speaker A: Let's call them printerviews. [00:14:05] Speaker B: Printerviews. Do we call them that? Why not? I like it. I'm into that portmanteau. [00:14:12] Speaker A: Oh, I love that word, by the way. [00:14:14] Speaker B: It's a good word. [00:14:16] Speaker A: But amidst all this. [00:14:18] Speaker B: Mm. [00:14:19] Speaker A: Amidst this escalating supernatural fuckery, the figure of the black monk began to appear. The family and indeed other witnesses to the house describe, of course, a dark figure, a hooded figure. Think pipes like, I guess. [00:14:44] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. Often seen of Ghost Watch, of course. [00:14:48] Speaker A: In the shadows, lurking just, you know, immediately before or immediately after the most intense paranormal disturbances. [00:14:59] Speaker B: Sure. [00:14:59] Speaker A: And the. The. The clothing of this guy, this clothing of the monkey, just connect him beautifully to the. The past. The. The secular kind of monastic past of pontiff, leading one to conclude that this has to have been the spirit of a monk executed during the Tudor dissolution of the monasteries. [00:15:28] Speaker B: Now, hold on. Go on here we are besmirching the name of this here monk being like, look at all this havoc that he's wreaking on this family and this house and whatnot. What if we're misunderstanding and this, like, a mothman situation? And actually our monk here. [00:15:50] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:15:50] Speaker B: Is, like, trying to, like, protect them or, like, warn them or like, he's just standing there like, uh, Yeah, I. You know, I was. It's like the other dog. When one dog, like, tears apart the couch cushions and the other one's just standing there like. I don't know what to tell you. I told him not to. [00:16:08] Speaker A: Yep. See, if there's one thing. You know, I've not really thought of this before, but now I'm saying this for the first time, and I. And it's true. The real Ghostbusters cartoon. Right? [00:16:20] Speaker B: Right. [00:16:20] Speaker A: If there's one thing it taught me was empathy for the spirits. You know, every ghost has. [00:16:28] Speaker B: Everybody's got a story. [00:16:29] Speaker A: Every ghost has a story. And obviously, when confronted with this irrefutable, tangible evidence of the paranormal, our tendency as humans is to go, ah, fucking hell, and to freak out and to, you know, demonize. This guy had a fucking bum deal. Right? [00:16:49] Speaker B: Right. [00:16:50] Speaker A: Was executed, no doubt, in some awful way. Don't know the details, but he probably was. And did they try talking to him? [00:17:00] Speaker B: Right. Like, what if he's really clumsy? What if. What if all of it is like he's tucker and daling, you know, like he's trying to, like, he's like, oh, you guys, it's dark in here. Do you want me to turn on the light? And then it's just like shorting out or like, you know, he goes, he's like, do you need some air? And he goes to open the window and he accidentally smashes it. [00:17:17] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly, exactly. [00:17:19] Speaker B: He's seen. I've never lived in 1966 before. [00:17:22] Speaker A: I'm scared. He's like, they say with, you know, with bugs and creepy crawlies. He's more scared of you than you are of him. [00:17:29] Speaker B: Exactly. Give the guy a break. [00:17:32] Speaker A: Now, obviously, naysayers, air quotes, scientists, psychologists have had a crack at kind of explaining what's really going on here. It's been suggested that is it just the stresses of puberty, for example, Is it family tensions? Is it, you know, some weird. [00:17:53] Speaker B: Does she actually just live in an abusive home and they're like. It's ghosts. [00:17:58] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly, exactly. And it's very possible that, you know, the stress that family was experiencing, did it contribute to the event of the house? Was it something. What's the word? What's the word? When something that you're psychologically feeling expresses. [00:18:16] Speaker B: Itself physically with a manifestation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. [00:18:21] Speaker A: Yeah, Subconsciously. Is it, you know, is it the power of. [00:18:25] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like, you know, when you, it's like when you, when you want to stay home from school. [00:18:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:30] Speaker B: And then you accidentally make yourself sick again. There's a word, give yourself hives. [00:18:34] Speaker A: That I'm reaching for and I can't. [00:18:36] Speaker B: Psychosomatic. [00:18:38] Speaker A: That's the fucking word I'm reaching for. [00:18:40] Speaker B: Now. [00:18:40] Speaker A: I tell you what, 45 year old Mark would have been able to conjure that word without a problem. 46 year old Mark, not so much. [00:18:49] Speaker B: Fuzzy brain. [00:18:49] Speaker A: Not so much. Although I dare say we'll talk about this later, but it's been good this week. Oh, good, yes. So lots to think about here. You've also got social context to consider. We're in post war Britain here. We've got a working class family in a council house. Challenges of things, you know, poverty and fucking social upheaval. Who knows? Do those kind of pressures manifest and exhibit themselves in that? Do they perceive paranormal activity? Who knows, who knows, who knows? [00:19:20] Speaker B: I'm always fascinated by this. And if you are a member of our Ko Fi, go and check out. I think it's the very first one of our fan Cave episodes where we talked about the others and the history that I Gave on, you know, because that movie takes place at the end of World War I and is sort of dealing with spiritualism at the time. And like, it's a time of huge trauma in Britain, you know, where, like, the story that you're getting here is of these people whose house has been occupied and they've been finally, they can come home and live in it, you know. You know what happens in the others if you. And we're not going to say anything here, but, like, they are finally returning home after the occupation during World War I. And so I talked about sort of like, what spiritualism was doing at the time and why people were seeing more ghosts and trying to interact with ghosts and things like that in that period. And it's so fascinating to me, every time you see something like this, you're in a post war moment, which is, like, about as traumatic as anything can be, especially for England. Like, fucking hell. [00:20:30] Speaker A: Yep. [00:20:30] Speaker B: It was a really hard time there. And it makes sense that, like, people either, like, psychosomatically manifest things or, you know, deal with stress and try to process it through these kinds of experiences or look to the paranormal to try to make sense of a. That has been filled with death and destruction. [00:20:52] Speaker A: Yep. [00:20:53] Speaker B: It's just such an interesting thing to me. [00:20:55] Speaker A: Listen, it. It. I can make that make sense. [00:21:00] Speaker B: Mm. [00:21:01] Speaker A: If you're worried about your home being occupied, is that some kind of manifestation about worries about your fucking country being occupied? [00:21:08] Speaker B: Right. [00:21:09] Speaker A: You know. [00:21:09] Speaker B: Mm. Yeah, totally. [00:21:11] Speaker A: Um, so anyway, eventually the. They moved the fuck out, basically, the Pritchards, they just. They simply moved the fuck out. But the. [00:21:22] Speaker B: Is there a movie about this? Like, those names sounds so familiar. I'm like, I have to have seen it. [00:21:28] Speaker A: Yes, there is. So in 2012, a movie was made which obviously dramatizes the events considerably. Of course, a movie called when the Lights Went out and doesn't sound familiar. [00:21:41] Speaker B: But I'm sure I must have seen it. [00:21:43] Speaker A: The. One of the producers of that film is now the owner of the house. [00:21:49] Speaker B: Of course. [00:21:52] Speaker A: It's been on Most Haunted. Most Haunted have done this house. [00:21:57] Speaker B: Oh, I miss Most Haunted. [00:21:59] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's the name? What's the woman called? Yvette. [00:22:02] Speaker B: Yvette Fielding. [00:22:03] Speaker A: Yvette Fielding cried. Well, she always fucking cries. She does cry a lot, but she cried. She cried in the house on that. [00:22:11] Speaker B: I think it's. Oh, no, this was a different episode, maybe. But I did do another fan Cave episode. If you're not subscribed to our KO Fi, you're missing out on so much Good content because I have some good stories there on the fan cave. And just as a side note on Yvette Fielding, bless her. She really is like a true believer, you know, like, she really thinks all this stuff is happening, and I'm sure her producers are basically tricking her and things like that, but she really thinks this stuff is happening. And I just love that in the wake of Derek Ikora's death, she just. No holds barred, none of that, like, you know, oh, don't speak ill of the dead or whatever. Just ripped him apart as she did when he was alive, too, because, like, he was just such a, like, total fraud and completely, like, shook her. Like, she was like. I thought everything we were doing was real, you know, I thought that we were, like, really, you know, like, she was, like, so heartbroken to find out that, like, this guy had been deceiving them the entire time. And, boy, she does not hold back on how much she is. A shame. That is a shame, Derek. [00:23:25] Speaker A: Okor well, any one of us could go and stay at the house right now. You could. [00:23:34] Speaker B: This is. Okay. I just want to say after you finish talking about this, I want to talk about the conjuring house real quick because it's going to be very similar. [00:23:42] Speaker A: Sure, sure, sure, sure. [00:23:43] Speaker B: Go ahead. [00:23:44] Speaker A: The guy who owns, like I said, is a guy called Bill Bungay. [00:23:48] Speaker B: Bungay. [00:23:49] Speaker A: B U n G A Y. Bungay. Bungay. [00:23:52] Speaker B: That seems like bungay to me, doesn't it? [00:23:54] Speaker A: Yeah, it all feels pretty bungay to me. But he produced this movie in 2012 when the lights went out and he went on and realized that the property was up for sale, that it was a hell of a fucking deal. Bought it, and you can stay there for the princely sum of £400 per night. [00:24:16] Speaker B: Jesus. [00:24:17] Speaker A: Yes, indeed. [00:24:20] Speaker B: Just. It's like. Is it near anything? [00:24:23] Speaker A: Well, it's Pontefract. [00:24:25] Speaker B: Pontefract? Yeah. Like £400 is so much money. [00:24:30] Speaker A: Well, £400 for a weekend or bank holiday. [00:24:33] Speaker B: Okay. All right. I thought you meant, like, if you. [00:24:35] Speaker A: Want to stay midweek. [00:24:36] Speaker B: But you said for a night, though, right? Oh, my God. Yeah. That's a lot of money for, like, what? Doesn't sound like it's like, in a hopping hub of cool shit to do or whatever. [00:24:46] Speaker A: No, he does offer you a 10% discount for five or more bookings. [00:24:50] Speaker B: Oh, great. [00:24:51] Speaker A: But what I will. What I will say if you spend. [00:24:53] Speaker B: $1500 here, you get 150 bucks off. [00:24:58] Speaker A: Yes. [00:25:00] Speaker B: Wow. [00:25:00] Speaker A: He feels like a fucking carny, frankly. [00:25:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:04] Speaker A: I'm going to read to you from the extensive waiver that everyone, before entering the house, has to say. [00:25:10] Speaker B: I love these. Yes, hit me. [00:25:12] Speaker A: Oh, this is fantastic. Either visitor to 30 East Drive agree not a party venue. Minimum noise. No alcohol will be taken into the house. No Ouija boards, no exorcism. [00:25:28] Speaker B: We will not be bringing the Parker Brothers into this home. [00:25:31] Speaker A: But under no exorcisms. Right. Firstly, you can't exercise a poltergeist. And secondly, 30 30ed wouldn't be the thrill it is without the Black Monk of Pontefract. No refunds if the poltergeist doesn't make an appearance. [00:25:45] Speaker B: That's an important caveat there. [00:25:47] Speaker A: No souvenirs. Leave very quietly. No flash photography. No idiots. [00:25:52] Speaker B: This just sounds like the world's worst Airbnb. [00:25:55] Speaker A: No, no idiots. [00:25:56] Speaker B: No idiots. Is that ableist? It might be. [00:26:01] Speaker A: No simpletons. [00:26:03] Speaker B: No simpletons here. [00:26:07] Speaker A: You consent to being filmed a broadcast when you stay? Oh, yeah. Should the owner install CCTV at the house? You consent to being filmed and broadcast without recourse? No. [00:26:21] Speaker B: Why would anyone. No, absolutely not. I draw the line. That's when it's like you. You are an idiot if you stay in this place like this. Do you have some weirdo who can film you all the time going about whatever you're doing in there? You don't want to know what he's doing with that footage. [00:26:43] Speaker A: Like, so good. No idiots. [00:26:44] Speaker B: Come on. Absurd. [00:26:49] Speaker A: Billy bungay. [00:26:52] Speaker B: Are there TripAdvisor reviews? Like, oh, that's. What do people say about. [00:26:56] Speaker A: Great shout. [00:26:58] Speaker B: I'm very curious as to, you know. Yeah. What do people say about staying there? Because this is always an interesting thing too. [00:27:06] Speaker A: Like, listen, four stars at 36 reviews. [00:27:11] Speaker B: 36 reviews, yes. What do people say? Let's hear a couple. [00:27:17] Speaker A: Okay, here we go. [00:27:17] Speaker B: Snippets of what people have to say. [00:27:19] Speaker A: October 2024. Five stars. Amazing. Great host. [00:27:25] Speaker B: It's like literally just a. It's just an Airbnb. [00:27:27] Speaker A: Yeah. A fantastic experience. 30 East Drive, Pontefract. Thoroughly enjoyed our experience Ghost hunting at 30 East Drive, Pontefract. We booked with haunted houses and we're very pleased with the experience. Okay, so it's Anil and Becky, ease of use, guiding us through all the equipment and access. Experienced a fair bit of activity. [00:27:46] Speaker B: Oh, so they. They provide you with ghost hunting stuff. [00:27:50] Speaker A: Yes, it would seem so. However, Georgina in 2020, June 2024. One star. Boring and very overrated. Yeah, because it's a council house in Pontefract. [00:28:06] Speaker B: Ma'am what did you expect? [00:28:08] Speaker A: March 2024 couples gave us a laugh. Went with an open mind. Host, nice guy. But as for haunting, lol, not at all. They had all the electrical gadgets to try and capture spirits. Just a load of rubbish. [00:28:23] Speaker B: So it's not. They don't try to. Because I remember on Ghost Hunters, so early years of Ghost Hunters, their sort of framing device was debunking. And so they would go into places and they'd try to find very normal explanations for why stuff was happening. Like, oh, you've got wind coming through the door and that's why it creaks all the time. Or like, you know, things like that. It eventually moved away from that into like more of the most haunted vibe. Right. And became just like everything is. Oh, go ahead. [00:28:55] Speaker A: This review. The house isn't very clean and smells very heavily of cigarette smoke. [00:29:02] Speaker B: Oh, no. [00:29:02] Speaker A: There is a TV and DVD player to watch the film when the lights went out. But the DVD player didn't work when we were staying. [00:29:10] Speaker B: No. [00:29:10] Speaker A: Oh, no. [00:29:12] Speaker B: Oh, dear. It must have been the ghosts. The monk doesn't like that movie. It's like, not another time. We're not watching this again. But I remember there was one episode of Ghost Hunters where they did a supposedly haunted hotel and they realized that the hotel had done things. There was a backlit mirror in the bathroom that. There was like a face. [00:29:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:40] Speaker B: Inside of it. So people reported, like, you can see when you go into this bathroom, you can see a face. And they're like. It's literally like a mask that they put in there. You know, it's. They did that, you know, and they had. They realized that they were like, yeah, the hotel was doing all of this shit. And it's great because they were very mad about it. But yeah, it's like, I thought. I kind of thought that this is what this place was going to do. Like they were going to like, have setups so that people like. [00:30:07] Speaker A: No, apparently not. [00:30:07] Speaker B: People find stuff. But no, no, it's just a house. [00:30:10] Speaker A: It's just a house that smells quite badly of cigarette smoke. And the DVD player doesn't work. [00:30:16] Speaker B: Oh, it's amazing. [00:30:17] Speaker A: It is. [00:30:17] Speaker B: Does that the. You obviously know the conjuring, of course. And that of course, is quote unquote, based on a true story. And so that house you can stay in for exorbitant prices as well. And one of the Ghost Hunter's co hosts, Jason Hawes, his daughter is like a super grifter, like big time grifter, and she's done a Few. She's married to this guy named Cody, I think, and her name is Satori. It's like go by Kotori. And they've done various seances and stuff in there. And they do the old like Fox Sisters stuff from the 1920s that was like debunked. Early 1800s was like the knuckle spirit writing. [00:31:05] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:31:06] Speaker B: You know, but they're like in a whole like legal battle or whatever with the person who owns the conjuring house who is basically like just like this, but crazier. Like a super unhinged person. Yeah. Who like takes advantage of people and all that stuff. But it's the same kind of thing where it's like everyone who has gone there, like, who's lived in that house and stuff like that has been like nothing to report. It is a normal fucking farmhouse. [00:31:35] Speaker A: Listen, I gotta say, the only Bill Bungay gets a little spicy in these. [00:31:41] Speaker B: Oh, I love that. [00:31:42] Speaker A: In these TripAdvisor reviews. [00:31:44] Speaker B: Yes. When people don't like it, he responds. [00:31:45] Speaker A: Ella has given him one star and said, you're just lining the pockets of the rich filmmaker. And it's totally old staged. He does not enjoy this at all. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but a one star review based on your blinking opinions, frankly unfair. Not in the least bit constructive. And for the record, I'm the opposite of a rich filmmaker having spent a fortune on a movie about this house that literally everyone watched for free on YouTube. Unbelievable. [00:32:14] Speaker B: I love it. It's so good. But yeah, the like I. The same thing. Like people go to the conjuring house or who have lived in the conjuring house have said like, there's nothing supernatural about this house at all. It's like very much just a regular one. But people who go for like ghost hunts and stuff like that, like, you know, they can convince themselves there's going on there and they say if the. [00:32:38] Speaker A: K is rude amounts of money for I'll withdraw some petty cash and I'll do a night. [00:32:42] Speaker B: Just go, go spend the night at the. I would love that. [00:32:47] Speaker A: Would I? [00:32:48] Speaker B: This is our next, you know, next time I go out there. That's what we're doing. We're getting the lads together and we're all going to stay at. What's the address? [00:32:56] Speaker A: Number 30 East Drive, Pontefract. [00:32:59] Speaker B: Number 30 Drive, Pontefract. I love it. [00:33:06] Speaker A: Let me quote directly from my notes, if I may. [00:33:08] Speaker B: Yes, please do. [00:33:09] Speaker A: Fucking look at these nerds. Oh, mise en scene. [00:33:13] Speaker B: I don't think anyone has Ever said mise en scene in such a horny. [00:33:16] Speaker A: Way before the way I whispered the word sex. [00:33:19] Speaker B: Cannibal receive worst comes to worst. Mark, I'm willing to guillotine you for science. [00:33:23] Speaker A: Thank you. That's really, really sweet. It's cold outside, but my pancreas is talking to me. I'm fucking. I'm going to leg it. [00:33:30] Speaker B: You know how I feel about that, Mark. [00:33:32] Speaker A: I think you feel great about it. I'd love to take us in. That is, if you're not too scared and spooked out by that time. [00:33:40] Speaker B: Well, I am shaking a little bit and I'd like for us to lighten the mood so that I can cease to be listeners in here for my life. [00:33:50] Speaker A: No one would judge you from the Dark Monk. No one would judge you if you hit stop. Now. Now that we've rigorously shat you up this late December episode of Jack of All Graves. And I assume you're still listening, obviously. So listen, how's it going? Nice to have you all along this week. [00:34:10] Speaker B: Hiya. Aw, you're looking so good today. Me? [00:34:15] Speaker A: Or are you talking to the listeners? [00:34:16] Speaker B: I was talking to the listeners. You too. You look great. [00:34:18] Speaker A: Thank you. So do you. But yes, Corry's right. You in particular. You know who I'm talking about. You look fantastic this afternoon or the morning, wherever you are. And you're killing it at work. And you're family, love you. And you're respected by your colleagues and your friends, even the ones you haven't spoke to in a while. Think of you right now and fondly. And you have many quirks which people find adorable. Let me see. Your dress sense has never been sharper. You've got a sense of style which is both quirky, yet really well defined and nicely cultivated. [00:34:58] Speaker B: Yeah, you're really coming into yourself these days. [00:35:00] Speaker A: That's it, isn't it, by now. And look, we know the Jack of all Graves has been a journey. We are a long running podcast by any stretch of the imagination. [00:35:09] Speaker B: Yes. [00:35:10] Speaker A: And you've been on that journey with us. You individually, you I'm talking to right now. And you've really blossomed. [00:35:16] Speaker B: Even if this is your first episode, truly, we know you're on the journey. [00:35:19] Speaker A: We know. And you look great. And just big things coming up for you, big things in your future. [00:35:26] Speaker B: Here, here. [00:35:27] Speaker A: What do you think of that? [00:35:28] Speaker B: Which does remind me, I think, you know, as we. We've said, next week there will not be an episode. I will be exploring catacombs and hearing crime stories and shit on the streets of Italy. But the week after, I think it's probably time that we hear from the void to close out the end of the year, don't you think? [00:35:46] Speaker A: It's been a while. I don't know if I've still got it anymore. [00:35:49] Speaker B: Well, I think the void finds you. [00:35:52] Speaker A: I'm gonna have to perform some rituals, you know. [00:35:55] Speaker B: Mm. Yeah. You've got, like, two weeks to get it back. [00:36:00] Speaker A: I'm gonna have to cast some chicken bones. [00:36:03] Speaker B: Mm. [00:36:04] Speaker A: You know, dip into my bag of teeth and things. Things like that. [00:36:11] Speaker B: So if you've been thinking about joining the KO Fi but haven't yet, listen, do it in the next two weeks so you can hear from the Void. [00:36:19] Speaker A: You want to do that to round out the year? Should we? [00:36:22] Speaker B: I think that's. Yeah. As we recap what the year has been. [00:36:25] Speaker A: Okay. [00:36:25] Speaker B: You know, go through our normal sort of end of the year stuff. I think it's time to. Yeah, I'll do that. Void in. [00:36:32] Speaker A: I'll do that for you. It's been a while. I think my voice has recovered. I think my larynx is healed. [00:36:39] Speaker B: Yeah. It's true. You're due for another few months of recovery. Yes. So, yes, like I said, no jog next week, but happy to. Happy to have you. And hey, there's lots of content on the Kofi, by the way. We added just this past week, a new fan cave talking about Violent Night. And it's a good movie. Favorite Christmas. Yes, Our favorite Christmas movies in general and why we watch them and so forth. And then we also added our snack to the future about. What's it called about Giorgio Moroder, A. [00:37:21] Speaker A: Particular version of Metropolis. [00:37:23] Speaker B: Metropolis. [00:37:25] Speaker A: I'm not convinced I've seen that movie, but I've seen an interpretation of that movie. [00:37:30] Speaker B: And what an interpretation. So if you haven't watched those yet and you are a member, go over there. And if you aren't a member, hey, this Christmas, give yourself something. [00:37:38] Speaker A: Yep. [00:37:39] Speaker B: Give yourself the gift of Joag and check that out. [00:37:43] Speaker A: Or bewilder your family or loved ones by buying them an item from our Kofi from our tea public store. [00:37:50] Speaker B: Teepublic. [00:37:51] Speaker A: Is that what we use? [00:37:52] Speaker B: That's the one. Very on top of things. [00:37:57] Speaker A: Wonderful selection of goods, consumer goods, tote bags. You're here and such. [00:38:03] Speaker B: A lot of you bought such things last month. And, you know, we're very thankful for that. And we love seeing you in our gear. [00:38:12] Speaker A: We do. I've got one. I've yet to wear it, but I'm waiting for a special occasion. To wear that. I might wear it Christmas Day. And we are, you know, we are a long running podcast now by any stretch of the imagination, aren't we? [00:38:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, yeah, big time. [00:38:27] Speaker A: I love that. I love that. [00:38:29] Speaker B: I know. It was. I was walking to get coffee earlier today and I was listening to last podcast on the left, as I tend to do when I'm on Walk and they are on their 600th episode this week. They're doing the Black Dahlia. Check it out. It's like they. Basically the premise that they're operating off of is actually the Black Dahlia case has been solved pretty much the whole time. And they're going to go through why it is. We don't know that. And so I'm super in for this. But either way, they were talking about it being their 600th episode and kind of reflecting on that. And I thought to myself, you know, someday, someday we will have our 600th episode and hopefully you'll all still be along for the ride. [00:39:17] Speaker A: What I'm also quite proud of is sorry to get meta here and to talk about. [00:39:23] Speaker B: Hey, do it. [00:39:24] Speaker A: Sorry, but I'm. We've weathered quite a few storms as well. We've come through, haven't we? Oh, that's true, you know. [00:39:31] Speaker B: Mm. [00:39:32] Speaker A: We've come through. [00:39:34] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. We're still standing. [00:39:37] Speaker A: We're still standing better than we ever did. Like a fucking true survivor. Like a little kid. Thank you to the Wedding Singer. Even today, just inserting swear words into pop songs is still my favorite thing to do, thanks solely to that film. [00:39:59] Speaker B: I love that movie. [00:40:01] Speaker A: Fantastic. [00:40:02] Speaker B: It's a classic. So this week we're going to get into a little discussion that. I always love this when we put a discussion off for a week and then I have no recollection of why I wanted to talk about it in the first place. [00:40:17] Speaker A: Welcome to my world. That's familiar to me. Familiar territory. [00:40:22] Speaker B: We do this all the time where it's like one of us is like, oh, I have this great idea. And then it takes us a while to get to it. And then it's like, why are we talking about this? I don't know. We just are. So something a couple weeks ago made me think, hey, let's talk about doomsday preppers. And so that's what we're gonna get to shortly. And I'm excited to discuss this in the meantime. Hey, one crazy thing that's been going on always, you know, not a. Not a current events podcast, but just something worth mentioning because, you know, it's a little Joe Aggie. We got drones, Mark. [00:40:57] Speaker A: Right, okay. So that is what they are, is it? [00:41:01] Speaker B: Ah, well, allegedly. I don't know. I don't know. I have not seen them myself. [00:41:06] Speaker A: Right, bit of context for this because, yeah, I, this has largely passed me by and I know that we've been talking about this with friends on group chat, but this is large. [00:41:14] Speaker B: I've just been celebrating his birthday. He's not been following the drone news. [00:41:18] Speaker A: No, not at all. I've been in the lap of my family. I've had a few days off work. [00:41:22] Speaker B: Yeah. How's 46? [00:41:24] Speaker A: Oh, it's great. [00:41:26] Speaker B: Oh, good. [00:41:26] Speaker A: It's great. I've. I've said this on my socials plenty of times over the past few years and I. It bears repeating here, but I feel that growing and aging and growing into one's skin and finding out about yourself as you age. I am super enjoying. I love it. [00:41:49] Speaker B: Right. [00:41:50] Speaker A: Even, even, even when it seems like maybe I'm not enjoying it so much. [00:41:56] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:41:58] Speaker A: Because you know that one of my core principles is fucking self awareness and really fucking sitting with your feelings and exploring what's happening and trying to fucking get to the core of things. I love all that. And you know what? The fact that I'm getting a little scatty and the fact that my thoughts aren't as easy to organize as maybe they were at the start of this journey. I think there's this. I'm enjoying that in a way. [00:42:27] Speaker B: Okay. [00:42:27] Speaker A: I've, you know, I'm exploring my physical fitness as much as I ever have. I'm running like a son of a bitch at the minute. [00:42:36] Speaker B: It doesn't seem that way. [00:42:37] Speaker A: You know, I'm back to kind of double figures. I'm back to 12K now. I've got, you know, it feels, let's call it the four Fs. You know, I've got my family, I've got my fitness and fruit flavored vapes. The four. The four Fs, mate. [00:42:59] Speaker B: Indeed. You've got everything you need. [00:43:02] Speaker A: Everything I need right there. Just to talk about running. Good God. God, I love it. [00:43:10] Speaker B: Good. [00:43:11] Speaker A: Oh, it is so fucking great. And now that I'm pushing distance again, I'm kind of relearning and rediscovering what it is to just go inward, you know? And there's a place when you're really exploring how far you can go. When the music hits just right and the goosebumps hit and the adrenaline comes and you, you fucking ascend a little bit and your Higher functions just shut off and. Whoa. Man, you, you. You really listen to yourself and your body and just this, this uncanny skill. I've got to just. Just put everything inward. It's what I think it's what makes me such an effective killer, such an effective combatant. Do you know what I mean? It's by now beyond dispute that I am the apex predator among mammals. None of us would disagree with that. And I think it's that. None of us would disagree with that. [00:44:22] Speaker B: Nobody. Sorry. Yep. [00:44:23] Speaker A: And I think it's that skill of compartmentalizing my emotions in the pursuit of physical excellence, much like Bruce Wayne is able to do when he becomes the Batman, you know, shut off all pain and simply act. I think that's really what sets me apart from other animals. [00:44:49] Speaker B: Fascinating insight. [00:44:50] Speaker A: Thank you. I know. [00:44:54] Speaker B: Well, I love that for you, Mark. It's wonderful. Also, I've said it before, but it's always amazing. I think everyone listening can probably always tell when you've actually been exercising because, like, you just become like, like a different sunnier guy. [00:45:08] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:45:09] Speaker B: It's like, oh, he's in a good mood. He must have gone for a run today. So very happy. [00:45:16] Speaker A: But no, thanks for asking. Which is long story short. Yep, 46 is great. Thanks. [00:45:21] Speaker B: 46 is great. And we got drones. So if other people like Mark have just been in a celebratory run hole, we here on the eastern seaboard, mostly in New York and New Jersey, but sighted in a few other places as well, have been these drones allegedly in the sky. People have taken videos of them. There are, I think they tend to be in a group of three, if I'm not mistaken, and they seem to hover in place. And they don't sound like planes. They make drone hums, not plane engine sounds. And they are huge. Like they are plane sized, like small plane sized, but they are apparently drones. And this is the kind of thing that you would kind of like chalk up to weird alien conspiracy theory or things like that, but, you know, stuff that people see out in Arizona and whatnot. Except that the US government is actually like allegedly trying to figure out what's going on. Of course, you know, there's always the chance they know exactly what it is and aren't telling us. But the FBI has gotten involved. They've spoken to people, they've asked for our help, but also said, hey, like, please don't get close to them or anything like that. And they seem to have no clue what the hell these drones are. [00:46:54] Speaker A: Okay. [00:46:55] Speaker B: Which is. Yeah, go ahead. [00:46:57] Speaker A: So Questions that occur to me then how much of this is. How much of this can we believe? [00:47:07] Speaker B: Well, see, that's. That is definitely happening, right? Sure it is. On the news, they have showed, like, the. The FBI had meetings with, like, all the mayors in New Jersey. Like, this. That is happening. It's, of course, the question of, like, is the government telling the truth or not? [00:47:26] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm saying. [00:47:27] Speaker B: Who knows? [00:47:28] Speaker A: How. How much can we believe? Do they not know what these are? Because I find that very difficult indeed to believe. [00:47:35] Speaker B: Yeah, this. I mean, I said in the group chat the other day that, like, it's a fascinating moment because either they genuinely have no clue what these are, which would be insane, or they do know, but they think it's better that we think they don't than that they tell us what they are, which is a whole other can of worms altogether. [00:47:58] Speaker A: Yes. Because you've got the choice there of either the government or news agencies looking ignorant, looking like they don't know what the fuck is going on. [00:48:07] Speaker B: Right. [00:48:09] Speaker A: Which I, you know, I don't know much about American intelligence agencies, but that wouldn't be something that they would do lightly. [00:48:19] Speaker B: Yeah, it's usually a thing they try to avoid. [00:48:21] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:48:24] Speaker B: So it's bizarre that whatever is going on, that is the narrative that they're having us accept is the FBI does not know what is in the sky. Like, what is it that they think that that's the better narrative, you know, like, that's crazy. So either they're telling the truth and that's fucked up, or they're lying and that's fucked up. [00:48:47] Speaker A: Yes. [00:48:48] Speaker B: So that's interesting. [00:48:50] Speaker A: How many sightings have there been, Corrigan? [00:48:52] Speaker B: Well, now that's where I'm getting to. The other thing about this is, as you can imagine, this has driven the people of Jersey to complete mania. And now people keep on posting. Like, I saw the drones tonight, and they're, like, showing these videos and it's like, literally, clearly just planes. Or there was a woman I saw in the weird New Jersey group who thought she saw them, and it was Orion's belt. [00:49:24] Speaker A: Stop. [00:49:25] Speaker B: Constellation. It was stars. Like, I think, you know, people. People don't look up a lot. [00:49:32] Speaker A: That's a great point. [00:49:33] Speaker B: And the thing about. Especially this area in New Jersey, which is where they have been seen the most, we're in a flight path. So, like, as I record this podcast, like, every few minutes a plane flies over me because Newark Airport is eight miles from here. [00:49:52] Speaker A: Whatever, you know, But I mean, as a. As a Kind of sometime, you know, amateur dronist myself. [00:49:59] Speaker B: Yeah, sure. [00:50:00] Speaker A: It's very difficult to mistake drone sound. You can hear these fuckers coming from a long way away. [00:50:07] Speaker B: You can tell are not planes. They are. That hum is there like a drone, like an extremely loud hum because of the size of these. So that is, that is a thing for sure. There are videos that show that. Most of the videos are not. Most of the videos clearly are planes. And I remember like, you know, I used to live in Southern California and when we would drive up like towards LAX or towards John Wayne, either way there was like certain angles that you could be on the freeway. [00:50:41] Speaker A: That's an airport. [00:50:41] Speaker B: Yeah, that it would. Oh yeah, airports. LAX is Los Angeles Airport. John Wayne is the Santa Ana. [00:50:47] Speaker A: Driving towards John Wayne, it's just driving. [00:50:50] Speaker B: Towards John Wayne as you do. And either way you're driving. If you were on the freeway going at a certain angle and a plane was landing, it would look like it was hovering and not moving, you know, and you would be like, why isn't that plane moving? And it's like, it's literally just like the speeds at which you are going in opposing directions or whatever make it look like it's just hanging in the sky. And so I think, you know, the vast majority of the sightings that people are having are just planes. [00:51:23] Speaker A: So, you know, and I'm not blowing smoke here. I mean, everything I'm about to say, I have a great deal of faith and trust in what I call your informed intuition. Right. You're a very well informed, very culturally adroit young lady. Right. [00:51:40] Speaker B: Oh, thank you. [00:51:41] Speaker A: And so with that said, I would ask you, what do you think is going on? [00:51:45] Speaker B: What do I think it is? Yep. Yeah. I mean, I've been reading various people's perspectives on this. I think usually my take with any kind of like UFO activity is that it is probably something that the government is testing. [00:52:06] Speaker A: Right. [00:52:06] Speaker B: Or, you know, and I don't mean that in like a nefarious way or anything like that. Like, oh, they're testing out some sort of OP on us or anything like that. It's just that, like, you know, if you see, if you're in the desert in Arizona or something like that, and you see like a weird drone or something like, it is probably the government because they use that space for that kind of stuff. So my like inclination is to think that it's actually probably something government related. [00:52:33] Speaker A: And they're intentionally deceiving the public. [00:52:36] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. And that the only thing for me is that I'm Just like, I don't know why you would do that. Are they broken? Are they, like, having trouble calling them back where they're supposed to go? Like, why are they letting us see it? This, obviously. And I think that's what's so interesting about this entire thing is it's just like, normally you'd be like, there's like a very obvious explanation for this. Right. The Chinese weather balloon thing all over again. And the fact that, like, it's just for whatever reason, we can see them. It is verified by the government. It is happening. But, like, why? Why can we see this? Yeah, like why? You know, either why do they not know what it is or why are they not telling us what it is? [00:53:23] Speaker A: Yep. [00:53:24] Speaker B: And it's. I guess here's my thing. I think it's mundane. That's the. That's my ultimate thing is I don't think that there is something crazy or nefarious. It's not aliens. No one's trying to attack us. The government isn't, you know, spraying chemtrails at us with them. It's probably something very boring. And we may or may not ever know what that thing is. Maybe in 50 years when there's a Freedom of Information act type thing and people can go and open it up. [00:53:49] Speaker A: But every explanation raises questions, doesn't it? [00:53:52] Speaker B: Right, Exactly. There's nothing that, like, is so straightforward that you're like, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. [00:53:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:58] Speaker B: There's always a layer of why. [00:54:00] Speaker A: Did I maybe read that they've made their way over here? [00:54:06] Speaker B: I think that they might have started there. This was also on last podcast on the left. They did like a bit about the drones a week or two ago when they were here in New York and they were saying that I think they had been seen in Ireland and that I think they had been seen in Wales as well. And I think that was before they started appearing here. So. Yeah, I mean, that also raises the idea that maybe it's, you know, we were talking about this in the group chat that like, you know, maybe it's Russia. Russia loves to fuck with us and always has. [00:54:40] Speaker A: Yes. [00:54:40] Speaker B: That's like what the Cold War was was just like poking each other and being like, look what I can do. Like, you know, it could be something silly like that. That is a foreign government sitting offshore on a boat sending drones out. Like, haha, fuckers. Look at. [00:54:53] Speaker A: Right. A brief web search says that there have been sightings over US Air Force bases in the uk. [00:55:04] Speaker B: Ah, there you go. [00:55:05] Speaker A: Okay, so that makes sense. [00:55:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Mm. All right, that'll, that'll give it to you. And I know that, like there was a story on the news yesterday about them flying over a base or something like that here that was like, obviously they shouldn't be doing that. And it's just like, why, again, why? How you would shoot down like a thing, like if it was a flying into that airspace. [00:55:28] Speaker A: Are they out of, out of kind of gunshot range? [00:55:32] Speaker B: No. And this is what, like Chris Christie, the former governor of New Jersey, came out and said this, like, if, if the government doesn't like, start telling us what's going on here or whatever, you know, people are going to start just trying again. [00:55:45] Speaker A: I'm astounded that no one has had a crack. [00:55:49] Speaker B: If this were like, you know, somewhere a little more right wing, they probably would. I think that it's flying over largely blue New Jersey, where people don't just shoot at stuff generally is probably why no one has, has shot it down yet. But it is getting to that point where it's like, you know, we can only. This can only happen for so long before someone's like, I'm just gonna shoot it. [00:56:15] Speaker A: Yep. See what happens. [00:56:16] Speaker B: See what happens. You know, Fascinating. [00:56:19] Speaker A: Good, good, good thing to happen that. I like it. [00:56:22] Speaker B: Yeah. I do hope we find out what the heck it is. But, you know, part of me says don't hold your breath. I think it's just gonna stop happening and leave the news cycle and we will hear nothing of it. [00:56:34] Speaker A: Okay, well, keep us posted, won't you? [00:56:36] Speaker B: It will, yeah. Do you want to talk about what we watched? [00:56:40] Speaker A: Well, let's do that. Yeah, let's do that bit. God, I feel like we've packed a few in this week. [00:56:47] Speaker B: But yeah, not a terrible job, especially considering, you know, how a week ago you were barely able to get anything in. You've managed to get a few watches in. Listen, like I said on the Kofi, you can hear Kristen and I talk about Violent Night, which we both watched this week with David Harbour as a violent Santa Claus. It's just such a joy. A delightful, ultraviolent, cute movie. Great Christmas classic. [00:57:18] Speaker A: He's quietly assembling. Quite the body of work is David Harbour, isn't he? [00:57:26] Speaker B: I saw him in a play in London even. [00:57:29] Speaker A: Did you. What's he like on stage? I imagine him having quite the presence. [00:57:36] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly, he does. I mean, he's huge. Like, he's over six feet tall, you know, thick dude. So yeah, that mixed with who he is is. Yeah, he has a big stage presence. [00:57:49] Speaker A: Awesome. [00:57:49] Speaker B: Yeah, he was fun to watch. [00:57:50] Speaker A: Awesome. And yeah, I. I've only seen Violent Light the once and I. I remember it being great. It's a really, really good laugh. [00:57:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. It's a very fun movie. [00:57:57] Speaker A: Now. I'm very impressionable. Right. One thing about me is. Oh, man, I'm very open to suggestion. Oh, I'm a stage. [00:58:05] Speaker B: Unless it's from me. [00:58:07] Speaker A: Yeah. But that trailer for 28 Years later is a fantastic piece of work. Just the trailer is great. That's how you fucking put a trailer together. It is creepy. It hints at expanded lore. It doesn't really show you much, but it. Drenched in dread, drenched in spooky atmosphere. Fucking great, Great, great trailer. So obviously, like the little fucking puppy that I am, I immediately went and watched 28 days and 28 weeks. As did I. Oh, you watched. You watched 28 days as well, did you. Can I ask? [00:58:45] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:58:46] Speaker A: Why does that film look so shitty? [00:58:50] Speaker B: It's. Yeah, it looks. It's absolute potato quality. And actually my husband had read an article about this. I thought this was so funny because I brought it up and he was like, oh, yeah. I just read something about this the other day about, like, how this was one of the, like, first mainstream movies shot on digital, and digital technology was fucking trash at the time. And something about it being shot that way has made it difficult to remaster and fix in ways that movies that were shot on film or later digital are much easier to remaster. So that's one of the reasons why it hasn't been streaming. [00:59:31] Speaker A: Got you. Because it looks so fucking rough. [00:59:33] Speaker B: Yeah, it looks awful. Abysmal. Did it always look like this? [00:59:38] Speaker A: To the point where I was like. [00:59:39] Speaker B: Is this a bad rip? [00:59:41] Speaker A: I went and got two separate rips of it because I thought the first one must have been fucked up somehow. I got another one and it just looks awful. All until, weirdly, the last five minutes of the film, which look fine. [00:59:53] Speaker B: It's so weird, that last scene, perfectly fine. And you see everyone talk about it on letterboxd too. Like, this movie looks like trash until the last. And I think maybe it's just light. [01:00:02] Speaker A: Yes. [01:00:03] Speaker B: Like, that scene is like the most well lit of the entire movie. And so maybe that's just why it looks better. I don't know. But it is weird. [01:00:14] Speaker A: Yeah, I. Pete was off school sick and I was off work, so I checked it. He wanted to watch it. I'm glad he noped out. He noped out within the first 10 minutes. I don't really want to see this. And I put a lot of that down to the fact that it looks so fucking ropey. [01:00:29] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. It's nothing there for a young person. [01:00:32] Speaker A: But see, I'd forgotten that it then looks rapey at the end. So I'm quite glad that Pete left the room. [01:00:38] Speaker B: I did not enjoy this rewatch one bit. [01:00:40] Speaker A: Did you not? [01:00:41] Speaker B: It's like this. No. I was like, how did I. For one thing, this was a very weird experience. I watched this movie many times in high school. Right. When this, when I started watching this, I was like, I remember none of this. This is like a whole new movie to me right now. I was like, I remember Cillian Murphy's Pain in the beginning, and then the rest of that movie is like a brand new thing for me. So I had no idea where anything was going or anything like that. I was like, Somehow in the 20 years since I've watched this last, I've completely lost this movie. And then watching it, I was like, it kind of goes from like very boring and poorly acted to then a rape movie that centers around a bunch of men trying to rape a little girl. And I was just like, man, I fucking hate Alex Garland. I don't ever want that man to write anything ever again. I hate him so much and I hate everything he does. And on top of that, it looking like shit made it so that there wasn't even like a. Well, at least it's pretty. It was just like, no, fuck men. I hate this guy. I don't like his stupid rape trash. I hated it. Absolutely hated it. I. Oh, straight in the bin. When I find my DVDs, I'm throwing it away. [01:02:00] Speaker A: Okay, I'll stop talking then. [01:02:04] Speaker B: No, no, I mean, I know you liked it because you were like. You were like, yeah, the 28 weeks later isn't as good as the first one. And I was like, oh, interesting, because I like 28 weeks later. [01:02:14] Speaker A: No, I quite like 28 days later. You know, maybe for personal reasons, you know, not like that. But, you know, I get a kick out of seeing locations that I go to often in movies. [01:02:28] Speaker B: Yes, right. Yeah, totally. [01:02:29] Speaker A: And both days and weeks heavily feature deserted London and. Yeah, but going to London pretty much every fucking week, like I do, I love knowing that my footprint and my, you know, my. My presence has existed in those. In those places. But I, as a pre pandemic document of British society going to shit. I think 28 days later is, you know, for the time at least, a pretty good approximation of how it would go. It feels, it feels. It feels authentic. It feels like it has the noise of reality to it. Yeah. I don't have the natural aversion to rape plot lines that you do. And I can. It rang true. I can see fucking meathead, fucking ex military wankers like that doing something as fucking abhorrent as that. [01:03:31] Speaker B: Yeah. I think, like, obviously, I mean, I think that's almost why it's worse. [01:03:36] Speaker A: Yes. [01:03:36] Speaker B: Is because, like, that's the thing is, like, we know, like, men rape all the time. Like, you know, and those people would absolutely exist. But it's the way that men, like, use that as a shortcut in films for, like, something to up the plot is like, let's have this be about the torment of a child who a bunch of men are trying to rape. Like, that is. That's unnecessary. You know, like, there's so many plot lines that you could do. [01:04:04] Speaker A: Yeah. That was literally what I was about to say. It could have gone in. I will grant you that. It could have gone in many other different directions to that. [01:04:13] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think, you know, one of the things about 28 days later, when I look back and try to think of, like, why did I fucking like this at the time? Like, obviously, you know, other. This struck a nerve. When I posted something about it on Blue Sky, I said something like, before I'd even gotten to the rape storyline, I was like, I'm watching 28 days later, a movie I loved in high school. Why do I not remember it being boring and looking like shit? And a surprising amount of people were like, oh, God, I'm not alone. Like, it's really bad, isn't it? But, like, one of the things that a few people said was like, well, you know, keep in mind we didn't have fast zombies until 28 days later, you know, And I think another thing that's interesting about that is we talked like a few weeks ago about how I always say I don't like zombie movies, but really I don't like post Snyder. [01:05:09] Speaker A: We've nailed this. You like good zombie movies? Yes. [01:05:12] Speaker B: Right. Like good zombie movies. But I'm like, I think now I can trace it further back. Like, it's. Everything has tried to be 28 days later since 28 days later. So it's like the Long Walk zombie movie, Right? Like, either you get something like Snyderverse version, Dawn of the Dead and stuff like that, or you get what has become some really good stuff, like Last of Us. Right, but that. Or. But it's the same thing. The Walking Dead, Last of Us, the people who have survived a zombie apocalypse going on A long walk. [01:05:41] Speaker A: Yes. Genre which inevitably. Oh my fucking God, am I sick of. Hey, the real threat is people. [01:05:51] Speaker B: Right. Which is what the old ones said too. And it just becomes so like, slaps you over the face. And with it, when it gets to these 2000 and beyond ones, like, what if we're the monster? I get it. So some of my, like, ill will towards 28Ds later, I think besides like just my, you know, distaste for that kind of plotline comes from the fact that I've also seen 22 years of people making 28 days later over and over again. And so stuff that would have been fresh. [01:06:26] Speaker A: Yes. [01:06:27] Speaker B: When I saw it back then, is now tropey as fuck. [01:06:31] Speaker A: Yep. Completely agree. I guess to cap that off, I mean, the more I talk about it, the more it becomes clear that what I. What I. One of the things about zombie and apocalypse movies that I enjoy more than anything else is societal collapse. [01:06:45] Speaker B: Right. [01:06:46] Speaker A: I do enjoy seeing the structures and the fucking, you know, everything that we consider normal about our day to day lives going to pieces. The media, you know, food and fucking infrastructure, all of that collapsing. I love that. I love seeing that and I think. [01:07:04] Speaker B: Which is appropriate for our preppers. [01:07:07] Speaker A: Very much so, yes. Very much so. [01:07:09] Speaker B: But I think it's fascinating, like, as you're saying that I'm thinking about like what we'll talk about in preppers is like a kind of, you know, people who prep in the idea of like a communal utopia. And I'll talk about that more. But I think this is making me think about the fact that like I've said many times, my favorite parts of like Last of Us are when they just like find like a town, you know, And I always like the like community elements of like the societal downfall. Right. Like the parts where people support each other or that goes horribly awry. But like seeing the like, societies that people make for each other. [01:07:51] Speaker A: Yes. [01:07:52] Speaker B: And I think, you know, with 28 days later, obviously the one that we see is just too far. Like, I'm like, I want to see. Like, it's only been 28 days. [01:08:01] Speaker A: Right, that's a great point. [01:08:02] Speaker B: Why have these guys just suddenly created this like thirsty rape cult? Militarized rape culture. It has not been a full billing period. Like, and they have created this rape cult here. [01:08:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:08:20] Speaker B: And to me I'm like, yeah, that's not, that's not what I want to see. I want to see, like, if you're gonna give me 28 days later, what's the beginnings of people Trying to put together a community like that. [01:08:31] Speaker A: The same can certainly be said of 28 weeks later. A lot has happened. [01:08:36] Speaker B: A lot has happened in 28 weeks. Right. [01:08:39] Speaker A: In that scant timeframe. You know, we've got repopulated zones, We've got the States occupying other fucking countries. [01:08:49] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. For some reason we're in charge now. Yeah. Again, that's not really explained. [01:08:55] Speaker A: The noughties were different time. [01:09:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Again, I'd only ever seen 28 weeks later in the theater. [01:09:04] Speaker A: Right. [01:09:05] Speaker B: I saw it in Boston. Scared the shit out of me and my friends. And I just remember walking home and all of us being like. Every noise we heard in the bushes, we were like, completely had us on edge. Yeah. I was like 21 at the time. And so this. I. I didn't really remember a ton about. [01:09:24] Speaker A: Oh, not at all. It was like watching a completely new film for me. I. It was as if I'd never seen it before. I had no idea that Hawkeye was in it. I had no idea. [01:09:31] Speaker B: Roseburn. [01:09:32] Speaker A: No clue. [01:09:34] Speaker B: Jeremy Renner. Yeah. Everyone who pops up in this. What's his face from Michael from Lost and yeah, yeah. Mercutio from Romeo and Juliet. He's in there. Yeah. Everyone who pops up, you're like, oh, that. That person. [01:09:49] Speaker A: And it's a simpler film for me. It's a, you know, it doesn't even try to say anything. I don't think. It doesn't even try and say anything about societal collapse. [01:10:01] Speaker B: It's just a scary movie. [01:10:02] Speaker A: Exactly. This. Yes. [01:10:03] Speaker B: Yeah. And that worked for me. I enjoyed this being just like a. I love that I looked up afterwards, I was like, no, but this is Cash Grab that nobody is involved with this. It's not Danny Boyle, it's not Alex Garland. They, you know, just made. They took Fast Zombies and ran with it for this movie. But for me, it's like. It just is. It's so scary because it's like very contained in one small area, basically. And it is. It's a stupid decisions movie for sure. This. They end up having to incinerate the whole of London because these dumbass kids wanted a picture of their mother. [01:10:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:41] Speaker B: Otherwise they had pretty much stopped the whole zombie threat. [01:10:44] Speaker A: Yep. [01:10:45] Speaker B: Entirely. But these kids restarted it. [01:10:48] Speaker A: If anything, I get from 28 days later more and better of what I liked about sorry, from 28 weeks later, the more and better of what I enjoyed in 28 days later because you've got those same beautiful views of an empty London and it's much eager look. [01:11:03] Speaker B: At it in this one. [01:11:04] Speaker A: Yeah, and it's in and it's clear. You know, it doesn't look as though I've taken my glasses off to watch it. [01:11:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I was enjoying being like. You know, when I first seen this, the idea of going to the UK was like a twinkle in my eye. A thing that I could only imagine doing. My view of the UK was watching TV shows and BB Mac videos. And so it was fun to watch it this time and be like, oh, I know where that is. I've been there, I've been there, I've been there. Yes, Quite enjoyed that. But, yeah, I still find 28 weeks later pretty, like, scary. I mean, I'm certainly more inured to it than I was 20 years ago, but it's, like, fun and bleak. Like, it's very hard. Like, even though it plays out more like an action movie than the first one does, it still has that. Like, there's really no escaping this feeling. It's just so inevitable. Dark. [01:11:55] Speaker A: Yes. [01:11:56] Speaker B: No one gets off, you know, But I also love that. Like, so the premise of this, which I did remember, is our man Robert Carlisle, he. He has been separated from his children, he's with his wife, living in, like, what they're trying to have as a safe house. And then that gets infiltrated by our zombies and he basically leaves his wife for dead. [01:12:20] Speaker A: He does. He just legs it. [01:12:22] Speaker B: Attacked her and he legs it. Which then I asked you, I was like, would you be mad if your partner did that? [01:12:30] Speaker A: Yep. [01:12:31] Speaker B: You were like, yes, absolutely, 100%. [01:12:33] Speaker A: I would never. I would kill them and I would never fucking ever speak to them again. If, If. If my fucking. My significant other in full view of me while I'm looking at them, just ha. Just waves at me from the window and fucking legs it to the boat. Fuck off. If we were reunited, they would be dead to me. Never speak to them again. [01:12:52] Speaker B: But, like, they think you're gonna die. What are they gonna. They're just supposed to be like, I'm gonna die on. [01:12:57] Speaker A: Grab something and start hitting the gribblies. Please don't just fucking haul ass out the window. Grab a chair. [01:13:07] Speaker B: Personally, I would get it. I would be like, no, that's fair. Like, one of us should live. I. I would not. I. Yeah, I wouldn't be mad. I'd be like, that sucks. But, like, you know, I hope you. I hope you have a nice life. [01:13:20] Speaker A: No, I could not. I couldn't get past that. It would be awkward. [01:13:25] Speaker B: I mean, it would be awkward to be reunited for sure. [01:13:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:13:29] Speaker B: As it is in this film as well. [01:13:31] Speaker A: But look, if a trailer is any indication, and we know it isn't, but fucking hell, the third one looks. [01:13:36] Speaker B: It looks good. Even with that guy. I don't like, with the. With the old partner, Aaron Taylor Johnson. [01:13:47] Speaker A: All right. Has he got an old partner? [01:13:49] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. It's like a whole scandal because, like, she was married with, like, children who are only, like, four years younger than he is, and then directed him in a movie when he was, like, 17. And then when he, like, came of age, she divorced her spouse and married him. [01:14:08] Speaker A: And. [01:14:09] Speaker B: Yeah, so she's very nice. Few years older than her kids, and it's like, that's. If that were the other way, we would probably call that grooming. Yeah, it's a little weird, but, like, they defend themselves vigorously and. Yeah, they're still together, like, 15 years later. [01:14:29] Speaker A: Well, then that's fine, isn't it? [01:14:31] Speaker B: And if the grooming works out. [01:14:34] Speaker A: Yeah. If it's to everyone's benefit and no one is harmed and they're still together and it's all cool. Who. Who are you, Corrigan. To cast aspersions on an unconventional generational fucking setup and relationship? Not. I. I won't do that. [01:14:50] Speaker B: I'm willing to do that. I'm willing to do that for both of us. [01:14:52] Speaker A: All right. It's fine. [01:14:54] Speaker B: Him and Celine Dion need a support group, but whatever. [01:14:58] Speaker A: Let's see, what else do we got? Oh, could I just talk about Venom super quick? [01:15:03] Speaker B: Yeah, do it. [01:15:04] Speaker A: Just worthless. [01:15:07] Speaker B: I'm so sad about this because I really. I quite liked the first two. [01:15:10] Speaker A: First one. It's diminishing returns, isn't it? The first one was good. Seemingly through, you know, accident. The first one was. [01:15:17] Speaker B: Right, exactly. [01:15:18] Speaker A: And everyone's like, how. Oh, people like this. [01:15:21] Speaker B: Did that actually work? [01:15:22] Speaker A: Yeah, but the second one was. Look, it's just bewildered performers trying to emote opposite tennis balls on sticks. [01:15:31] Speaker B: Right? [01:15:31] Speaker A: It's Tom Hardy's silly voice. The plot is just the most. It's the thinnest, flimsiest fucking plot, and it casts two people who've been in previous Marvel films. Right? [01:15:47] Speaker B: Oh, okay. Who? [01:15:48] Speaker A: Are there no other fucking performers that you could have got other than muddying the waters with two people who've been in an interconnected. Fucking hell. Rhys Evans was. [01:15:59] Speaker B: Wait, who? Tell me who you're talking about. [01:16:01] Speaker A: Reese Evans is in it. The lizard from an earlier Sony Spider man film. [01:16:05] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. What the fuck? [01:16:08] Speaker A: And one of the guys who was in Doctor Strange. Let me just get his name. [01:16:17] Speaker B: It's like, if you're Gonna do that. They need to be under like a lot of makeup so that we're not thinking, hey, aren't they already? [01:16:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Chew it. Legendary. He's in it. [01:16:26] Speaker B: Oh, okay. Interesting. I did not know he was in this. [01:16:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:31] Speaker B: What's he in? [01:16:32] Speaker A: Marvel wise, he is a bad wizard. In Doctor Strange he's a wizard who. [01:16:38] Speaker B: Goes, oh, you're right. Huh, I forgot about that. Yep, you're 100% correct. [01:16:43] Speaker A: But fucking Rhys Evens is even more baffling. [01:16:49] Speaker B: That's not even like cross like types of Marvel movie. [01:16:53] Speaker A: Yeah, but that's just one problem with it. It's just look symptomatic of that entire fucking failed abortive Sony Spider verse. It just has no reason to exist. There's nothing really behind it. It's of no value. It adds nothing, it brings nothing. [01:17:14] Speaker B: Thankfully it is near the end because Kraven has killed the Sony Marvel verse. [01:17:24] Speaker A: Yeah. And I have no emotions about it. I have no feelings about that. [01:17:29] Speaker B: No, that's kind of the worst thing because it's like when it comes to like the mcu, right? [01:17:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:17:34] Speaker B: Like I'm sick of the MCU and I have no interest in it, but at the same time, like, I'm sad that I don't care about the Marvel Universe. Right. Like, oh, that's a bummer. I dedicated, you know, 15 years of my life to that and now I'm completely uninterested in what they have to offer me. [01:17:50] Speaker A: Not quite there yet. When it's. [01:17:52] Speaker B: Yeah, you're a little. [01:17:53] Speaker A: Yeah, it's still got gas in the. [01:17:54] Speaker B: Hang on a little bit. [01:17:55] Speaker A: When it's still doing interesting stuff like Moon Knight and Agatha and WandaVision all. [01:17:59] Speaker B: The way through either of those. I loved Wanda. You know, I loved Wanda. [01:18:03] Speaker A: It still has gas in the tank and I'm still curious to see how they're gonna try and pull it back by just fuck it, let's recast all the old people again. Right. I still. And the Spider man, the Sony, the. Sorry, the Marvel Spider man films are great. [01:18:17] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean they are, they're, they're good fun and. But like, what's the. What was the most recent. Oh no, they have like that Captain America movie coming out that just looks like utter trash. [01:18:30] Speaker A: Nope, just looks good. [01:18:31] Speaker B: Military propaganda, like, no, thanks. They want nothing to do with it. [01:18:35] Speaker A: I'm into that. It's going to be. [01:18:36] Speaker B: That looks good to you? [01:18:37] Speaker A: Yes, it does. [01:18:38] Speaker B: Well, it looks like straight up the. [01:18:40] Speaker A: Second Captain America film, which is widely regarded as one of the high points of the entire Enterprise. It looks kind of like that vibe, and I'm here for it. [01:18:47] Speaker B: It looks more like the terrible show that they did, the Winter Soldier. [01:18:51] Speaker A: That was rough. That was hard work. [01:18:53] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what. That's what I get out of those ads, is more of that. And I, like. I don't want. I don't want that at all. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's going to be a lot of fun. [01:19:01] Speaker A: I mean, the Sony verse, it got some mileage out of it being shit, didn't it? I mean, it was. It was morbid time for a bit. [01:19:12] Speaker B: That's really what was driving it. Yeah. Like any. Anything they had going for it was us seeing shit because it was shit. [01:19:19] Speaker A: Yes, but that. Only that. That doesn't have longevity, does it? You can't really getting away with that. [01:19:25] Speaker B: Right. [01:19:26] Speaker A: And I'm glad that they've called it a day. I mean. Yeah, well, I say glad. That would. That would imply that I feel something about it and I don't. It's. [01:19:35] Speaker B: Right. [01:19:35] Speaker A: It was a thing and now it's not a thing. There we go. [01:19:38] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. It is blinked from existence. And, you know, none of us are better or worse for it simply is. [01:19:47] Speaker A: Just lots and lots of money was spent on it. And, yes, that could have built schools. [01:19:53] Speaker B: And hospitals or could have just burned it, for that matter. [01:19:56] Speaker A: May as well have done. [01:19:57] Speaker B: Yes, the same effect. [01:19:58] Speaker A: Yep. [01:20:00] Speaker B: I finally got around to Speak no Evil, the remake yesterday. [01:20:06] Speaker A: I'm just clenching up and I'm preparing to hear that you hated it. [01:20:11] Speaker B: No, I liked it a lot more than the original one because famously, I can't stand the og. But this one, I mean, it's not a pleasant watch by any stretch of the imagination, but as I've said with the first one, you know, the couple in that, like, deserved everything that came to them for being fucking idiots the whole time. And this gives you a little more plausibility to it, where it's like, it's not just that they're too polite to leave, but that there's, like, various forms of, you know, misunderstanding and various forms of, like, reasons to give the benefit of the doubt and stuff like that, that make it so that you're like, okay, like, you can see why they would try to make amends and stick this out. And, like, obviously it's got the more, like, American end to it or whatever, where it's like, there's, you know, they fight back. [01:21:07] Speaker A: But I get that you could not. You couldn't do that ending. [01:21:12] Speaker B: Yeah. I think, you know, but even if even if they had done the original ending of it, I think I still would have been better with it than the original one, you know, because it would feel earned more then it would feel like I was saying with 28 weeks later, where it's like, you know, no matter what you do, you still meet the same horrifying end. Right? [01:21:32] Speaker A: Yep. [01:21:32] Speaker B: Like, I could deal with that when I. [01:21:34] Speaker A: Look, just to be clear, when I say you couldn't do that ending, I mean, no fucking studio in their right mind. [01:21:39] Speaker B: Yeah, no studio would make it. [01:21:41] Speaker A: I'd love to have seen that ending again in a Western remake of that film. I would have fucking. I would have clapped for Glee if they'd done that ending. What an ending. [01:21:50] Speaker B: But, yeah, I'm sure that was a condition of making 100% the film that you could not do the same ending as the original one. And so, yeah, it's got more of. Yeah, more of the American ending in it, but I think it also makes it just, like, a more interesting movie to watch. It's like the idea of, like, what if people were so polite they didn't leave until they die? Like, only has legs for so long? Like, you've made your point. [01:22:17] Speaker A: Yes. [01:22:17] Speaker B: Right. And it comes to a point where it's like, okay, well, like, can we have, like, this Be interesting at least? You know, let's do something with that now. And so, yeah, I liked the remake of Speak no Evil much more than I like the original one. That made me want to throw. [01:22:33] Speaker A: He's a very effective psycho, isn't he? James McAvoy? He does that very well. [01:22:38] Speaker B: I say, do you notice this thing? I've. You know, I've studied James McAvoy very closely. [01:22:43] Speaker A: I bet you have. I bet you have. [01:22:46] Speaker B: And he just does this interesting thing, and I thought it was something that he did. Like, you know how people have certain ways that they do an accent, Right? So when people do an American accent, it's like they have certain ways that they move their mouths or they, you know, little things that, like, make it so that they can more effectively do an American accent. And I thought that was what he was doing. But he does this when he's using his own accent, too. Like, if he yells or something like that, he kind of does it from, like, the back of his tongue. So, like. [01:23:14] Speaker A: Are you talking about what he does? Like his chin and his jaw? [01:23:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, it's like he kind of goes from here. [01:23:22] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, I have noted that. [01:23:24] Speaker B: See, you know what I'm talking about. [01:23:27] Speaker A: It's yeah. [01:23:28] Speaker B: Yeah. And he doesn't do it like all the time, per se, but it's like, certain. Like if he gets. If he's yelling in any way or things like that. He does that. And I. It's just really interesting to me, like, how did he develop. Was it a speech impediment? Like, how did he develop this interesting thing that he does with, like, his mouth and tongue? And this was very apparent in this. In this movie. [01:23:54] Speaker A: Yeah, listen, hey, a little object lesson there in how trailers cannot be trusted because the trailer for Speak no Evil Us style was awful. [01:24:03] Speaker B: Yeah. It was like, wow, they're giving away the whole movie. Like, what's even. What are they gonna do with this when they've just told us everything that's gonna happen? They didn't. Turns out. [01:24:13] Speaker A: Yep. So. Yeah. Good shit. Delighted to have finally seen Heretic. [01:24:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Wonderful. What did you think? [01:24:20] Speaker A: It's like watching a play, isn't it? [01:24:22] Speaker B: Mm. Yeah. I thought while watching it, I was like, oh, Mark's gonna really like this because this absolutely meets your theater million percent. [01:24:30] Speaker A: It was like watching a filmed play. It was like watching a fucking, you know, cinema. Chains here will often do like filmed versions of Royal Shakespeare Company or Ballets or whatever. [01:24:40] Speaker B: I went and saw like the Frankenstein with Benedict Johnny Lee Miller and Benedict. [01:24:45] Speaker A: Cumberbatch and this was like that. It was as though somebody had recorded a play in performance. [01:24:51] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. [01:24:53] Speaker A: You could not. Ah, man. Hugh Grant, man. Fucking I love Hugh Grant. That Heretic fucking lives and dies on his shoulders. [01:25:04] Speaker B: Yes. [01:25:05] Speaker A: And you know, he. There are monologues, just huge unbroken paragraphs of text from him. And you never feel as though you never. You just carried away on his every fucking word. You are hooked by that man's performance. He's brilliant. Fucking love Hugh Grant. Who knew? [01:25:24] Speaker B: And you get to see him do Jar Jar Binks and Tom York. [01:25:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:25:27] Speaker B: In this movie. [01:25:29] Speaker A: Yes. [01:25:29] Speaker B: Couldn't have seen that coming. [01:25:31] Speaker A: Deeply self aware script, you know. Or is it. Or is it because. Sorry. Deeply self aware script, but not so much a self aware character because the age of the two missionaries that he's talking to, you know, Radiohead and the Phantom Menace are not references, you know, and he's clearly, he's clearly dropping those references thinking, you know, this is really going to hit home with these two young ladies and they've completely left the center. It's, it's, it's, it's so good. It's great. [01:26:03] Speaker B: Yeah, it really, you know, I thought this was a fun movie for me, as you know. An ex vangelical. Because like he is such your standard new atheist type person. Yeah, like very smug. You know, I have all the answers and I'm going to reason you out of these beliefs that you have and all of that in ways that are just like so off putting. You know, when he thinks he's really, he's really crushing with all of this, you know, you can see him on Reddit. You can see, you know, he has, he's read all the Richard Dawkins and you know, he's read all of that stuff and yeah, he's just the worst kind of smug atheist. And then like as now an atheist, I'm like, the thing is like, he's right about all of this stuff, but he's. The way that it's like presented is like so off putting. And also he makes these kinds of assumptions about where the girls are coming from and that like, oh, they have no knowledge that can like counteract. I'm so smart. There's nothing that these girls could possibly bring to the table. Right. You know, and he's met his match in like two very different ways in these two girls. One that has a bit of a past to her, is a little more worldly and has some idea of like how you deal with people like this. And one that has been fully indoctrinated but is like, you know, curious and things like that, but is so strong in her faith. And I think that sort of, it feels like all the different parts of Christian and Christian me and now me and whatnot, like coming together into these characters in this and like interacting with each other in very interesting ways. So I kind of felt like I was like, oh, I can see bits of different points of my life in each of these people. Oh, that's lovely. Watching this dialogue happen between them that I thought was very cool. [01:28:04] Speaker A: Very nice. [01:28:05] Speaker B: Sorry, Love that. Yeah, Yeah. [01:28:08] Speaker A: I got nothing more to say on on Heretic. Really, other than it is. It is. It is another high point in what has been another great year for horror. And we'll talk about this in two weeks time. But it has in ways that I've said it before. There is not another fucking genre out there that is fucking playing in the spaces that horror is right now. [01:28:31] Speaker B: Yeah, true story. [01:28:32] Speaker A: And I challenge you, in fact, please prove me wrong. If you can point to another part, another area of film which is as fertile and as productive as horror is right now, I would love to see it because there ain't one. [01:28:47] Speaker B: Right, you're here. [01:28:49] Speaker A: Mm. [01:28:52] Speaker B: The only other thing I want to mention that I watched before the other one that we both watched. Is that because of Hellrankers this week and their trash Tuesday, I watched the Santa Claus. [01:29:01] Speaker A: Happy Santa Claus, by the way, happy birthday, Anna. Happy birthday, Anna. [01:29:05] Speaker B: Martin, our pal, Anna. It was their birthday. And, yes, we wish you all the warmest of wishes sincerely, and the coldest of wishes this winter. You know, nice snug in your cozy equipment, wishes for your birthday. But they talked about Santa Claus 3 this week, and I know I must have seen it at some point because I do remember. Well, I guess Spencer Breslin's in the second one. Maybe. I've never seen this. It adds Martin Short to the mix this time as Jack Frost. [01:29:45] Speaker A: Yeah, sure, yeah. [01:29:47] Speaker B: Have you seen this? [01:29:48] Speaker A: No, I have not. Neither way. Corey. Don't hate me. I don't think I've seen a single one of them. [01:29:54] Speaker B: I mean, these aren't, like, important movies to me. They're just like, you know, I have seen them a million times. Just because, you know, in the 90s, you watched the same movies over and over and you didn't have the benefit of streaming forever. It's like, I enjoyed those ones growing up, but they're not like, mark, you've. [01:30:10] Speaker A: Got to see the Santa Claus. Yeah, yeah. Good. Okay, good. [01:30:13] Speaker B: Santa Claus 3 is a bizarre movie, like, patched together from various pieces that make something, like, hugely incoherent, but almost likable in the fact that it makes no sense. It's doing, like, so many different storylines and not well, and everything wraps up in, like, very quick and weird ways. But you also get, like, a musical number from Martin Short. You get, like, weird time travel, really confused timelines as a result of that, where, like, the implications of this are, like, huge, and they don't really address any of that. It is a bizarre movie in a way that makes it somewhat likeable to me, where it's not good. [01:31:03] Speaker A: You know, I've got space for a noble failure. I love a film which takes a swing, you know. [01:31:10] Speaker B: Right. Yeah, it's a swing and a miss, but it is a swing, you know. So Santa Claus 3 is, like, one where I'm like. I don't know if I recommend it, it, per se, but it is a curiosity. You know, they tried to take the franchise in a different direction, and it seems to have killed it until they made, like, the TV show last year. But, yeah, it didn't work. But nobly didn't work. [01:31:35] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm all about that. I mean, I'm never gonna seek it out. No yeah, but. [01:31:40] Speaker B: And your kids are too old now for it to be like a. You know. Oh, I guess I'll watch it with them. [01:31:45] Speaker A: Yep. But what you've described, unlike Venom, the Last Dance is a film which at least has a reason to exist. At least has something to justify it occupying space in the world. [01:31:58] Speaker B: Right. So the other thing, finally. [01:32:00] Speaker A: Yes. The Endless. [01:32:04] Speaker B: The Endless, which I almost accidentally scared you out of. [01:32:07] Speaker A: You did? [01:32:08] Speaker B: Because you were like, do you want to watch the Endless tonight? And I was like, oh, I love the Endless. Have you seen the other movies? And you were like, what other movies? [01:32:14] Speaker A: Yeah. I didn't know there was like, an endless cinematic universe. I had no clue. [01:32:18] Speaker B: There is an endless cinematic universe which starts with resolution in 2012. And then the Synchronic, which we did watch a few years ago, and, you know, was kind of a like, okay, nothing special. [01:32:33] Speaker A: Racking my brain. I can't. I can't for the life of me think how they link. [01:32:39] Speaker B: Well, yeah, And I think you'd have to, like, I haven't rewatched that one, so I don't super remember either. And I want to say probably something in the dirt links up to it too, but unfortunately, I was waiting forever to see that movie, and then I watched it at Richard's house and just passed the fuck out. I was, like, super tired, so I was like, no, I think they're all in the same universe, but they're created by these guys, Aaron Moorhead and Justin Benson. And they are connected. The connection between Resolution and this is like, way more obvious. It's like entire scene, it's not vaguely connected. You're like, oh, shit, that's from this. No, but. So I told you that, and you were like, well, now I didn't. Super love Synchronic, and this feels like work. [01:33:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:33:25] Speaker B: And I was like, no, no, no, trust me, it's gonna be good. It's gonna be good. The Endless is good. [01:33:29] Speaker A: But no, I'm delighted to have found that it didn't diminish my enjoyment of. Of the Endless Atoll. What a. What a great surprise that film looks. I knew nothing about it. Nothing at all about it. [01:33:40] Speaker B: Which is the kind of the best way to go into the Endless, I think. [01:33:45] Speaker A: It is a lo fi movie that reveals itself really steadily, you know. So the plot is two brothers who've left a cult but found that life on the other side is unfulfilling. And, you know, one of the brothers persuades the other to let them go back for a visit, which ends up becoming more. And it. It Gets the kind of fraternal relationship between these two guys. [01:34:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:34:13] Speaker A: Bang on it. [01:34:14] Speaker B: So perfect. [01:34:14] Speaker A: Really, really fucking nicely observed. And it's. Because it's so lo fi, it's dusty. It takes place a lot on the. On the road, you know, small town America. When it starts to drip feed you with weird and when it starts to reveal what it is, if you haven't seen it, I apologize. But you, you know, when you learn that it's. Oh fuck, it's loopcore. Hey, Yellow. That's a wonderful surprise. The way that, you know a cult caught in a time loop. Fucking hell. Everybody living out their own individual little time loops. And how you would react to that, how you would try to rationalize that or make sense of that. It's. Oof. [01:35:02] Speaker B: Beautiful. [01:35:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Really fucking great movie. [01:35:05] Speaker B: I was. I got my mom to watch it a while ago and I was telling you that like, my mother has a tendency to like, walk in while I'm watching something and then just like talk over it. And so she came in and she started talking to the dog. And I was like, shh. Because it was like a part where that was explaining things and I haven't seen it in a few years, so I like, couldn't totally remember what's going on. I was like, mom, quiet, quiet, quiet, quiet. And she was like, what? I'm talking to the dog. And I was like, yes, I know that. But like I'm trying to watch a movie and then she turns around and she looks and she's like, oh, this is one of my favorite movies of all time. Have you seen the other ones? Well, actually, you told me to watch the other ones, didn't you? It just starts going on and on about how much she loves this movie over. So I still missed the scene. [01:35:47] Speaker A: Well, I will confess, it was one of those movies that you. That I then immediately had to look up on Wikipedia to just read through. [01:35:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Like what actually happened, you know, but. [01:35:56] Speaker A: You know, I was delighted to find that I kind of got it anyway. [01:35:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:36:00] Speaker A: Yeah. I enjoy an examination of how rational people would deal with incredible circumstances. [01:36:13] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. [01:36:14] Speaker A: And we had what felt like living, breathing people in the fucking weirdest of circumstances here. In particular, the guy who's stuck in the loop, just away from the cult, just trying to help his friend get off drugs. Oh man, that was fucking heartbreaking. Heartbreaking. All this guy wanted to do was see his fucking family again, and yet he's doomed to fucking die after a few months trapped in the same fucking time loop with the same guy. Oh, It's. It's like a nega Groundhog day, isn't it? Nobody learns anything. Nobody is. [01:36:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:36:49] Speaker A: There's no growth. Nobody benefits from it. It just is. And people have to fucking deal with it somehow. Oh, I love it. Really cool. Three and a half stars. [01:36:58] Speaker B: Watch the Endless. I was like. When I said three and a half, I was like, come on. Classic, Mark. [01:37:07] Speaker A: Oh, dear. Movies are the best, aren't they? [01:37:11] Speaker B: They are. It's true. [01:37:13] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes. [01:37:15] Speaker B: Now, Mark, I have a question for you. [01:37:18] Speaker A: All right, let's start this with a question. Go on. [01:37:20] Speaker B: Yeah. So what kind of disaster preparedness do you and your family do? Like, do you have stuff you keep for emergencies? Do you have like an exit plan? Do you have a generator? Like, what in your fam. Do you have in place for a disaster? [01:37:37] Speaker A: In a cupboard in our little utility room just there, we have a first aid kit, right. Which contains some plasters or, sorry, bandaids, I think you might refer bear N aids, you might think of them as that have some as paracetamol or maybe you'd call it Tylenol. [01:38:03] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:38:06] Speaker A: Some tape to some bandages. [01:38:10] Speaker B: Sure. [01:38:11] Speaker A: A pair of small scissors and that is. [01:38:13] Speaker B: That's pretty much it. That's the. That's the whole disaster preparedness. [01:38:17] Speaker A: Yeah, we don't really have any. We don't have any is what I'm getting at. [01:38:23] Speaker B: Do they now? When I was a kid and like, I think this is pretty standard in school in America. I've done it on both coasts. You get kind of basic prepping drilled into you pretty regularly. There's like assemblies, you know, I remember in like 5th grade we would have. We had like an assignment to get our prep kit ready. We assembled them in class. Yeah. Like a home emergency kit so that you had, you know, a couple gallons of water, you know, things like that. And we even had an in school kit that had like, you know, non perishable food items, a picture of our families, bottle of water, like so say if there was an earthquake or something, we would have them with us at school? Yeah, like this. This was a normal part of just like school education here. [01:39:16] Speaker A: Incredible. Fucking no chance did we have any of that. [01:39:20] Speaker B: Nothing like that in a British school. [01:39:23] Speaker A: None at all. What? Right. [01:39:25] Speaker B: You guys were busy singing hymns about. [01:39:27] Speaker A: Jets refueling jet planes meeting in the air to be refueled. We were busy sitting on the wooden benches at the back of the hall. Fucking hell. Right, so today, kids, we're gonna go over your disaster preparedness plan. [01:39:41] Speaker B: No chance. [01:39:42] Speaker A: Absolutely not. [01:39:43] Speaker B: Wow. Okay. Yeah. So this is pretty normal here. Yeah. And we are always encouraged to make sure you have certain things at home so that you could, you know, if something happened, you could survive for a little bit, you know, like your first aid kit, of course. But yeah, like basic non perishable food items, water. And always like, you know, we would have like fire assemblies and things like that. That was like, okay, if something happened in your house, like a fire or something collapsed or things like that, what are your exit routes? You're supposed to have like a map drawn of your house with like an exit route to be able to get out. Like, so you knew in the case of an emergency. Where do I go from here? [01:40:24] Speaker A: I think, I think I'm right in saying that our houses are quite a bit smaller than yours, so we certainly wouldn't need. [01:40:31] Speaker B: Yeah, probably, generally to be able to. [01:40:33] Speaker A: Get the fuck out of our house. [01:40:34] Speaker B: Well, but the idea was not to. [01:40:35] Speaker A: Be 8ft away at all times. [01:40:38] Speaker B: But like, what if you can't get out the door? Is the idea. Like, so where do I go now? You know, where's the best window? You know, what do I do from there? Like, one of the things that I remember we learned in college, we'd have these things too. And it was like we had an assembly in college that was like, if you're in your dorms, like, kick out the window if there's a fire and wave something out it so that like the firemen can find you. They're always teaching you, you know, what are your exit routes if you can't get out your door, what do you do from there? That the idea. [01:41:11] Speaker A: Listen, I see the value in it. I don't hate it. [01:41:14] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. It's just interesting that that's not, you know, that's pretty normal here. And so, like, I guess there's like a little bit of prepping built into America's generally. And in fact, the city of Los Angeles and FEMA both suggest that you should have supplies in your house to be able to survive for two weeks in the event of a major disaster. Seems reasonable. [01:41:37] Speaker A: It does. I mean, it seems way more useful than algebra. [01:41:42] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. Could use this, you know, in far more situations, I think. And I, and I saw something today that was talking about how there's like a new report that shows that right now we're on track for 3 degrees Celsius rise by 2060. Yeah. Which is catastrophic. Like, that is like civilization ending event. If we do, don't do something about that. And in the meantime, while we're not Doing anything about that. Temperatures are rising. Shit's getting real. And so the idea of, like, having stuff prepared for disasters and whatnot becomes even more relevant in light of impending climate catastrophe that will come for most of us, if it hasn't already. So, Mark, let me give you a little, like, definition of what prepping is. Okay, so this comes from trueprepper.com all right, so it says prepping is creating plans, gathering resources, and developing skills to overcome emergencies, disasters, and survival situations. The scope of preparedness is large and up to the prepared individual, ranging from simple power outages to apocalyptic events. This is another one that, like, you know, my husband, he's from California and then Hawaii, and so we have, like, different kinds of disasters and things between those places, as opposed to me being raised on the east Coast. Apocalyptic events every time. Yeah. So every time it, like, there's, like, a thunderstorm or, like, it's forecasted that there's gonna be, like, a tropical storm or something like that. I'm like, make sure all your stuff is charged, like, so that you don't run out of battery as soon as this hits. So, like, it can be simple things like that to. Yeah, apocalyptic events. It says the majority of people in America, 73%, have taken at least one step to prepare for a natural disaster or emergency. But some people choose to lean into preparedness a little harder than just one step. And those people are commonly called preppers. So they say that, you know, dictionaries define prepping as the process of preparing for something, but in our context goes further. Gathering materials and developing plans for possible catastrophic disasters or emergencies, usually by stockpiling food, ammunition, and other supplies. And it says prepping has multiple levels and motivations and can be completely tailored to the individual. Minimalist preppers hardly stockpile any supplies, favoring learning skills and building communities, community disaster response. Whereas doomsday preppers harbor the idea that the apocalypse is a risk worth preparing for. Liberal and conservative preppers wear their political brand on their sleeve throughout all of these subcultures. Within soap cultures, there are still basic elements of preparedness, self sufficiency, and resilience. So it's kind of a broad group of things. Right. [01:44:37] Speaker A: What fascinates me about what you just said there, I mean, why would your politics have an impact or change the type of prepper that you are? What would differentiate a liberal prepper from a Democrat prepper? [01:44:56] Speaker B: You're asking the right questions here, Mark. Well, for one, a recent study found that half of Americans expect a second civil war to happen in the next few years, even if the specific specifics vary according to one's political politics and imagination, according to the New Yorker. And before I get into sort of what the difference between those kinds of preppers is, I think there was a post on Blue sky yesterday that I think sort of speaks to this that I thought was interesting. Someone wrote something. I don't have the exact post, but it was something along the lines of like, yes, America clearly has a lot of problems and things to be dunked on for, but it's annoying when people from other countries are like, oh, why don't Americans do this to fix things when this place is, like, 60 times their size? So, as we've discussed many times on this podcast, this country is huge. And because of the way our Constitution is written, it more or less functions as, like, 50 different small countries which each have their own rules. So when it comes to, like, solving a problem, America can't just do XYZ because you have 50 different governments that all have a say in whether or not we do something. So if not everyone wants the same problem fixed or doesn't want it approached the same way, we can't just unilaterally be, like, the federal government says so and fix it. Right. Like, that would be against our Constitution. And thus, that leads to a sort of environment that makes it so that we are prone to at least thinking there is great chaos and disorder on the horizon. You know, there's states that threaten to secede all the time. Right. Like Texas. It's always like it was. There was a question of whether Texas would try to secede if Kamala had won the election. [01:46:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:46:52] Speaker B: Right. And then, like, what do you do? That's like. That's a war. That's the kind of thing that effectively, it's. [01:46:58] Speaker A: It's. It's been made impossible for cessation for a state to back out of the union. Is that correct? [01:47:05] Speaker B: Right. Yeah, pretty much. I mean, there's so much military power and stuff like that that that would be shut down pretty quickly, but with a lot of bloodshed, and, you know, it would be very difficult. And also, that's not really how you want to solve problems, Right? Yeah, of course, to have little mini civil wars popping up all over the place, but a lot of Americans do think that's going to occur. And so I had. I read this really interesting article from a journal called. What was it called? Futures, and it talked about sort of progress. Progressive preppers versus, like, conservative preppers. Yeah. And it. And it talks about them as what they Call millennial utopians. Those are the progressive ones versus preppers, slash survivalists. Survivalists. And it's kind of a long quote, but I think it's really interesting. So it says, the millennial utopians are characterized by a radical and future oriented brand of socialism that abandons the nostalgia of previous left movements. There is simply no time for sentimental or traditional associations with how things were. The future is here and the need for change is imminent. Meanwhile, survivalist. That's a really hard word to say. Survivalist and prepper subcultures utilize dystopian future narratives to enact forms of utopian praxis in the present. For the most part, they are nostalgic for a simpler past as they lament the fast paced and high tech world laden with identity politics and political correctness. Both movements are geared toward creating a better future according to radically different understandings of the present. And they fall neatly along left and right sociopolitical divides. The millennial utopians advocate for a world that is egalitarian, collaborative and just, while the preppers accept society's irresolvable faults and present competitive and meritocratic behavior as a kind of natural order that is necessary for survival. And so, like it also says, you know, both contain radical elements. For example, both engage with economics as something larger than life, something embedded in the history of every nation state that is capable of suppressing, exploiting, and exterminating human life. But millennial utopian strategy seeks transformation rather than survival. This is perhaps because for the millennial utopians, late capitalism is already a kind of dystopia in need for revolution. Whereas for the preppers, a better future lies in a return to the past. And the turmoil of the present offers an exciting opportunity to claim a sense of belonging and control. So you can see how those are like completely different political mindsets, right? Like you've got, you know, I read multiple articles that were talking about how like, prepping in some way is becoming more and more popular. It came from like Post War, like 1950s post war, leaning into Cold war sentiments, like being afraid of the bomb and stuff like that. And had a resurgence in 2008 with the recession when people saw like, oh God, like society can kind of fall apart. There's no jobs, we can't afford anything. How do we prepare for that? And, you know, this Obama coming into power. So conservatives freaking the fuck out and being like, well, this is clearly the end of civilization now that we've got this black man in the Oval Office. And then since 2016, and the feeling of Unrest that arose with Trump, Trump's presidency and so forth. It's become more of a bipartisan thing. Everybody's doing it. Everybody understands that, like, shit can happen and we should be prepared for it. But from, like, a progressive standpoint, the idea is, well, we can remake society, right? And people can, like, you can start figuring out how to provide for your neighbors, how do you do mutual aid, how do you make it so that everyone can feed each other and everyone has everything they need so that we can remake a society that is better than the one in which we currently live. [01:51:28] Speaker A: See, which is a. Which is. I mean, the term prepper is a loaded term thanks to, you know, thanks to doomsday preppers. Is that the show? [01:51:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. [01:51:41] Speaker A: The term. The term may as well be crank, right? [01:51:49] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. It's very much associated. You know, when we think prepper, we think doomsday prepper. We think people who are, you know, the more conservative side of that. Right. Which is people who look at this as a return. [01:52:04] Speaker A: Yes. [01:52:04] Speaker B: Like society's gotten out of hand. [01:52:06] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes. [01:52:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Right. Like, we want this to be, you know, how humans are supposed to live. We live off of the land. We don't worry about political correctness. We just worry about survival and protecting our own families and what is ours and things like that. And so they don't see society necessarily as the problem or hierarchy or the structures of capitalism or anything like that, but they think, you know, globalism and things like that have gone too far. And now that we've got this global society and everything, it's doomed to fail. And we need to go back to those previous times. Oftentimes we're like, gender roles are very rigid. And times in which, you know, it's like this idea of, like, oh, living off the land and hunting for your food. And, you know, men were men and women were women, and we. We did what we. We were supposed to do at those. [01:53:04] Speaker A: Times, you know, so who is. I mean, in, let's say, the environment where you live, Right. The urban kind of environment where you live. How does one prep small p in that kind of environment, as opposed to somebody with land and with kind of resources, natural resources, like that? [01:53:34] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. I mean, that's such an interesting question because, like, that initial definition put forward, there's, like, a wide spectrum of that. Right. So there are people. There's an article in. And obviously this will be in our notes or whatever. And I think it was in the New Yorker. That's really interesting. That's talking to preppers of all kinds, but mostly the more right leaning ones. And you know, one of the guys says, like, oh, you gotta be 10 miles from concrete. Right. If you're gonna properly prep, you can't. You gotta be at least 10 miles from any roads. So you need land, you need, you know, lots of wide open space. They talk about people like, who might invade that as marauders. [01:54:23] Speaker A: Sure, sure. [01:54:24] Speaker B: You gotta be prepared for marauders who are going to come on your land. You gotta have like your guns ready for them and things like that. Whereas like they talked to like a woman in New York who does kind of prepping stuff and she's like, I love my city life. Like, it's not that I'm trying to get out, away from people and do a return to the land or anything like that, but at the same time recognizing that, yes, there could be political unrest. Yes, climate change is real. Things like that. Well, I want to have stuff ready so that I can survive. Right. And that could be like getting a gun in case someone comes to, you know, try to harm you. But a lot of that has more to do with like making sure you have food and water and generators and indeed, like often community support. Making sure you know, your neighbors, you know, trying to start community gardens, trying to create structures that make it so that if things collapse you end up like one of those nice little places that they show up in Last of Us and not in the Christian hellhole. They end up in that one episode, you know, like the idea of creating structures of support through their prepping. [01:55:38] Speaker A: Yeah. And I mean, there is a prepper scene in the UK and according to Sky News, it's one that is growing. But you've got, you've got specific, you've got very, very specific differences between the UK and the US which make the shape of that scene way, way, way different. Firstly, we've got interesting a way, way smaller landmass and centralized government. [01:56:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:56:06] Speaker A: You know, so, you know, the, the, there is no kind of different picture between countries of the United Kingdom in how we relate to the government. It's, it's uniform. There's way, there's, there's way more focus on urban prepping as opposed to like you said, 10 miles away from concrete. We don't have guns. [01:56:30] Speaker B: Right. [01:56:31] Speaker A: You know. [01:56:31] Speaker B: Yeah. The less militarized. [01:56:33] Speaker A: Yes. [01:56:34] Speaker B: Picture. [01:56:34] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes. [01:56:36] Speaker B: Of this. Yeah. [01:56:37] Speaker A: So I mean, the, the preppers over here, such as they are. [01:56:41] Speaker B: Yeah. What are they about? [01:56:42] Speaker A: It's, it's more about. Yeah, it's stockpiling, but it's more about kind of freeze dried foods, you know, it's more about kind of camping gear, it's more about skills, it's more about amassing skills like you know, self defense, self sufficiency than it is like you said, living off grid, rebuilding a community because we, there simply is no space for people to really embrace. [01:57:11] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. Where are you gonna go? You're on an island. [01:57:13] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly, exactly. So the geographic and the political and the cultural differences between us mean that our prep core scene isn't shaped the same either. [01:57:29] Speaker B: So why did they do it? What are their reasons for it? [01:57:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think those reasons are the same. [01:57:37] Speaker B: I mean it's like climate change, civil unrest. [01:57:40] Speaker A: Exactly that. [01:57:40] Speaker B: The refugees. [01:57:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly that. We are talking kind of infrastructure disruption. So what happens when like you said Russia fucks around? What happens if cyber attacks or infrastructures collapse, Technological disruption, that's the kind of thing people are prepping for. The pandemic has really put a fire up a lot of people's asses. [01:58:02] Speaker B: Right? Yeah, that was the huge one. Like when just simple things like that, you couldn't get toilet paper and stuff like that anywhere, people suddenly realized like an interrupt, a disrupted supply line mixed with people hoarding in the case of an emergency, like maybe I should be prepared for that. [01:58:21] Speaker A: The environment is huge. I mean I'm prepared to be called out on this, but I don't think we have the same dyed in the wool climate denialists over here that maybe you have there. Maybe I'm existing in a liberal bubble. But climate change is pretty much accepted as fact, right? [01:58:50] Speaker B: In the UK you can talk about it on the news and not have to present it as like here's the other side or like couch it in other language so people don't get that you're talking about climate change. [01:59:01] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. This another driver is. I mean look, if you think of the kind of declining quality of the nhs, undeniable it exists. If you think of the rise in housing, the stagnation in wage growth, inflation and such like economic instability is a driver. Economic instability is a driver just as it is in the States. For look, prepping, preppers aren't a big part, a cultural kind of mainstay over here. It's rare that people that you'll hear somebody openly talking about prepping for a massive seismic kind of event like this. [01:59:46] Speaker B: But yeah, and I don't think that it's necessary. I think probably most Americans know at least one prepper. Right. But I don't think it's like Necessarily, everyone, you know, is, like I said, I think we have more of a culture of prepping just from, like, basic disaster preparedness and stuff like that, like, drilled into us in schools and stuff like that, which is new to me. [02:00:07] Speaker A: That is fascinating to hear that it's completely absent from our school ruling. Completely. [02:00:12] Speaker B: Yeah. And I wonder why that is. Like, I mean, obviously we have more disasters. [02:00:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:00:17] Speaker B: Than you do. And so I do wonder, like, as climate change worsens and things like that, if there will be any form of shift towards that or if it's just so far out of, like, the even that idea that no one will think to bring that into British schools. But I do wonder if it's like a matter of kind of. We've talked about, like, we have more disasters. Our environment is more dangerous here than yours is. You know, you can get into more trouble just walking outside here than you can there. Obviously, the UK had a big fire and their things are built to withstand fire a little bit more than ours are. Well, you say that so. Huh. [02:00:59] Speaker A: You say that. [02:01:00] Speaker B: I mean, I'm sure things still catch fire, but. [02:01:03] Speaker A: Well, I mean, no less. Very few, if any, lessons have been learned since Grenfell, what, seven, eight years ago? [02:01:09] Speaker B: Well, yeah, Especially when you're talking about places where. But that's low income and margin. [02:01:14] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. That's less about the kind of fundamental way that we make our buildings. That's more about how people cut corners to try and save a couple quid. [02:01:22] Speaker B: Exactly. [02:01:23] Speaker A: On the insulation. [02:01:25] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. That's. That's a whole thing in and of itself there. And there's not really much. Well, except the basic things, you know, there that I think they had issues with, like, not having fire escapes or them being not working or, you know, there not being any exit routes for people out of the tower. Like, so it's connected, of course. You know, it is definitely connected when it comes to prepping and things like that, because infrastructure is about preparedness on a. On a large scale, and that's not happening. And so obviously that's why people do this. Right. Like, you don't want to be in a position to end up, like, all of those people who. Who were there. And. And people point out, too, when it comes to prepping, there's often a lot of privilege involved in it. It's not necessary. It's something that everyone kind of should do to a certain extent. But when it comes to people who hoard lots of stuff or people who. [02:02:23] Speaker A: Build bunkers, pretty much absent from over here, we, you know, the the, the. [02:02:29] Speaker B: I'm sure your politicians. Oh, there are some of them that. [02:02:33] Speaker A: On a consumer level, they just don't. [02:02:34] Speaker B: Tell you about it. Yeah, like any, any rich person in the UK probably has some corner, some sort of bunker. Yeah, that's all. The rich people are doing it all over the world. But yeah, the, and the. Most Americans cannot afford a bunker. You know, I watched a video on YouTube earlier that showed these like underground condos that someone had built and it was like you could buy like half a floor for like $1.7 million. And it had like one bedroom, like really nicely appointed, like living room and kitchen and all that kind of stuff. One bathroom for less than. Right. Like, honestly, really nice place. Had all these like tv, like the windows or like screens that look like you're looking outside and all that stuff. [02:03:33] Speaker A: No, no, no, no. Thanks. [02:03:34] Speaker B: For 3 million, you know, you get the whole floor. What a steal. And that would have, you know, three bedrooms, two baths in it and looks, yeah, it looks like the nicest condo you've ever been in. And supposed to sort of simulate that normalcy. My friend Chelsea, her husband is like big into prepping and like they live in Texas and there was a house near theirs that was selling that he was convinced had a bunker. And he was like, what if we bought that? Chelsea was like, we cannot buy a house because it has a bunker. That is out of our price range to buy a house that has a bunker. But he was like, ah. [02:04:11] Speaker A: Doesn't that simulated normalcy fly in the face of the fundamental kind of idea behind prepping? You're prepping for a new. [02:04:18] Speaker B: Well, again, it depends on what you're, what you're prepping for. Right. What you think is going to happen, what you're trying to do. And so like, you have a lot of these like right wing version of preppers are basically cosplay dorks. [02:04:30] Speaker A: Sure. [02:04:31] Speaker B: Right. Like, they just imagine themselves like we're like big bad army boys and we get to shoot marauders and dress in camo and all that jazz, you know, and those guys, like, obviously they don't, they don't want a luxury condo, like the living off the land and thinking that you're under attack all the time and everything is part of the fantasy. [02:04:52] Speaker A: Yes. [02:04:52] Speaker B: You know, they, they, they're almost, they're looking forward to the collapse and being able to do this. That article from the New Yorker was talking about this one place that like, was essentially like a giant Quonset hut type situation that was divvied up and people had bought spaces in it for whenever this apocalypse comes. And they have a space set up that they can go and live in. And, you know, they've appointed them with whatever stuff they want. Like, one of them had, like, a PlayStation in it and stuff like that. And they're very simple little rooms in this thing. But it was talking about how, like, some people just come and, like, hang out. [02:05:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:05:34] Speaker B: And, like, stay the night in there, you know, because it's like, they enjoy that cosplay. They enjoy the fantasy of what it'll be like when they survive. [02:05:43] Speaker A: They're not gonna catch me. They're not gonna get me no civilization. [02:05:49] Speaker B: You know, when I think about this stuff, I. I've said with, like, zombie movies and stuff like that, like, I want to stay at home. I don't want to be going out to anywhere. I want to fortify the place I live in. Not interested in that. So, you know, if I were a bajillionaire, sure. Like, the condo sounds great. I don't want to go anywhere. I just want to, like, chill and act like nothing happened. [02:06:11] Speaker A: My favorite example of that in a movie of a society doing its best to cling on to this illusion of what it was like before his Land of the Dead. The. The last good Romero zombie film. Me. Man, that is so good. The Dennis Hopper one that's full of those. You know, like, you put it beautifully. Their cosplay dorks just doing their best. Doing their best to try and keep hold of what it was like before. I love that. [02:06:40] Speaker B: And I love that there's, like. You know, these prepper websites have, like, these articles aimed at these cosplay dorks. Like, one of the ones that I liked is seven assumptions that can get you killed when shtf. Have you come across the acronym shtf? [02:06:56] Speaker A: I haven't, but. Say it again. [02:06:59] Speaker B: Shtf. Seven assumptions I can get you. [02:07:02] Speaker A: It's gotta be shit hits the fan. [02:07:03] Speaker B: Truly, shit hits the fan. That, like the prepper statement. Another video that I watched earlier today had just a bunch of clips, like a minute of clips of people from Doomsday preppers saying, when shit hits the fan. When shit hits the fan. When shit hits the fan. That is their phrase. And I think it's inevitable that shit will hit the fan at some point. And so, yeah, seven assumptions that can get you killed when shit hits the fan. Obvious stuff like taking a chance with clean water. Right. Just because water looks clean doesn't mean it is clean. That's smart. Right? But then you get things like being too friendly with Other survivors. It can be tempting to give up some of your food, water, other positions to those you see in need. But if you feed people once, you may find yourself feeding them again and again after. So they've created this like, you know, we don't want the socialism and we don't want the, you know, them coming at you like stray dogs. So be careful about being friendly with people. [02:08:06] Speaker A: But. Right, couple of things. Just based on what you've said there in the Last kind of 40 seconds, shit is gonna hit the fan. [02:08:19] Speaker B: Yeah, right. Probably most likely at one point. [02:08:22] Speaker A: How can it, you know, three degrees in the next 60 years. [02:08:27] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. If nothing is done about that, then yes, 100%. [02:08:32] Speaker A: And you can even cancel out that statement because nothing is being done about that. It's worse than we thought. [02:08:38] Speaker B: I am trying not to say no one will ever intervene, but yeah, on the trajectory we're on, yes, we are 30 years from the end of civilization. [02:08:51] Speaker A: So at some point surely one has to assume that shit will hit the fan. And if we can, we can surely safely assume that if that happens there's going to be massive social disruption that might come with marauders. Corrigan, that feels to me a less than ridiculous thing to assume. [02:09:14] Speaker B: Well, again, and this is like the different visions of what happens with the collapse of society, right? So like for these like right wing type of people, like if we just try to maintain the structures of capitalism, then that means that yes, people will have to raid to get their needs met because we will all be living individualistically and we will not form communities. Right? So if in a survival situation it's every man for himself, then yes, there will be marauders, yes, there will people coming in who try to, who have to in order to survive, raid other people's stuff and be violent and things like that. Whereas the other view of things is what if we don't remake capitalism and instead we provide for each other and we make it so there's no reason for people to raid our spaces. Instead they are welcomed in and they are given what they need. In which case, why would people do that? Like there's always gonna be bad guys, of course, but like if your, the structures that you set up provide for people's needs, then there, it doesn't benefit people to take your shit and run as opposed to being a part of a community in which their needs will be met in perpetuity. [02:10:42] Speaker A: That would, that would involve some kind of crossover period though of those structures being built before shtf. [02:10:51] Speaker B: Well, that's what Prepping is, isn't it? Yes, that's the idea. [02:10:56] Speaker A: Yes. [02:10:56] Speaker B: So some people are prepping for the individualistic every man for himself shoot on site, anyone who comes for your shit. And some people are prepping to create communities afterwards where everyone is provided for. So you're exactly like spot on with like this depends on what vision you have as you are prepping. The difference between going out into the middle of nowhere and hoarding guns versus being in New York City and trying to start community gardens where people can be fed. You know, like these are completely different visions of prepping and you know the. So like there's all kinds of articles like, like that that are out there or another one that I liked was practice combat. Combat without getting killed. You know, it teaches people about camouflage and strategic tactical thinking. [02:11:51] Speaker A: Yeah. Something I've come across. Things like that is learning to blend in. Grey man theory. [02:11:57] Speaker B: So yes, Gray man theory. [02:11:59] Speaker A: Be as well equipped as you possibly can be whilst looking like everybody else. [02:12:05] Speaker B: Exactly. So it's an interesting thing. And like you said, I think, you know, in reading about this kind of stuff, like I immediately was like, what do I like? Should. I should probably buy water bottles. I should probably make sure that there's place for me to keep stuff that is above the flood line in the basement and things like that. Like, you know, it made me think about on a practical level what kind of stuff I should have ready in the case of these kinds of emergencies and whatnot. If not necessarily, what can I hoard, who can I shoot, things like that. But before we close out, you know, this is, this is Joag. So we want to make it real dark and end on the darkest note possible. Right? [02:12:53] Speaker A: Of course. It's the only note. [02:12:55] Speaker B: It's the only note there is. So the Southern Poverty Law center has a page that is called Doomsday Desperation, which is basically a list of murders that preppers have done and other such things that they have done. Breaking the law in various ways in order, like in the name of prepping and what they think is going to happen. So may I just read you a couple of those instances? So the first one, it has. On July 15, 2017, a 42 year old woman executed her boyfriend Stephen Mineo with a 45 caliber Glock semiautomatic pistol at their apartment in Tobihana, Pennsylvania. According to the girlfriend, Mineo requested her to shoot him in the forehead at point blank range. Police say Mineo and his girlfriend, both conspiracy theorists and doomsday preppers, were ostracized by an alien Conspiracy cult that embraced apocalyptic biblical themes from the book of Revelation. Fearing the coming end of the world, Mineo was overcome with despondency leading up to his death wish. [02:14:13] Speaker A: How do you prep for the Book of Revelations? [02:14:16] Speaker B: You know, Revelation, revelations. This is an interesting thing that I, I did read a few things about where, like, just in general, the idea of Christian preppers is really weird, isn't it? [02:14:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:14:31] Speaker B: You know, because it's like, theoretically we know what's coming, right? Like, we know what unrest is going to happen. There's a whole book about it. There's many interpretations of that and whatnot. But like, we theoretically know what the end of the world is and we should be trusting God. Like, if you believe in the rapture, if you believe in rapture theology, you're not gonna be here for the tribulation anyway. You're gonna peace out. So, like, what the fuck do you care? So the idea of Christian prepping is contradiction, Odd, contradiction to me. But I, like one page that I came across actually had like, here are some preppers in the Bible. And I was like, Noah is a prepper. You know, like all these. I was like, okay, this is a stretch here, but trying to justify, you know, something that reads as a distrusting God and a lack of knowledge of the Bible as like, no, this is normal. God tells us to protect ourselves. Here are some people who've done it in the Bible. So, yeah, like, there's a lot going on there. Alien conspiracy, cult, along with Christian cult stuff leading to this guy's death. Let's see. Last summer, fearing the end times, another prepper killed three men near his fortified compound in Great Cacapon, West Virginia. Eric Schute, who was also a sovereign citizen, which are like the guys who listen. [02:15:58] Speaker A: That's an entirely different claim that they're. [02:16:00] Speaker B: Yeah, just basically they're the guys who claim that, like, they are. They don't have to abide by the laws of the United States. [02:16:07] Speaker A: They found the cheat codes to get out of parking tickets. [02:16:09] Speaker B: Yeah. They think that they found the magic spell that makes it so that they don't have to follow US law. [02:16:15] Speaker A: We must, we must talk about them, even in passing. [02:16:18] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. We definitely have to, but. So Eric Schu, also a sovereign citizen, says he shot the men with a.223 caliber rifle because they were cutting wood and trespassing on his land. Doomsday preppers often emphasize living off the land or off the grid. In isolation, investigators found the telltale signs of a doomsday prepper when they searched Shute's property. Stockpiles of food, a cache of guns and ammunition. Hoarders. There was also concern that Schute had placed landmines on the property to protect its perimeter. [02:16:49] Speaker A: I know that. I know you can legally kill somebody if they've broken into your home. [02:16:56] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't think like that. I think that becomes like a premeditation issue. [02:17:01] Speaker A: Landmines aren't covered by that particular. [02:17:03] Speaker B: Yeah, no, because theoretically, you have to feel threatened. [02:17:08] Speaker A: There you go. Yes, yes, yes, that's right. [02:17:10] Speaker B: And so someone, like, accidentally walking onto your property or trying to deliver an Amazon package or something and getting blown up by a landmine isn't really standing your ground. [02:17:20] Speaker A: Yes. [02:17:20] Speaker B: Okay, let's see. A year earlier, Michael Augustine Borns murdered his wife and three children at their cabin in a remote Montana forest and then set his house on fire and committed suicide. Neighbors described him as a survivalist who lived off the grid. On January 17, 2015, David Crowley, an aspiring conspiracy filmmaker and screenwriter, shot and killed his wife and daughter in their home in Apple Valley, Minnesota, and then committed suicide. Crowley had been working on a feature film project called Gray State, with a storyline that revolved around a coming police state after societal breakdown. In September 2014, Benjamin and Christie Strack of Springville, Utah, murdered three of their four children with a poisonous cocktail of cold medicines laced with dextrophin and doxylamine. They then killed themselves. Authorities later learned that the parents were worried about the evil in the world and wanted to escape a pending apocalypse. Family and friends reported the Strax wanted to move somewhere far off the grid. [02:18:30] Speaker A: It's the biggest shame about this. That last guy never got to finish his film. I guess I would have liked to have seen that, Right? [02:18:36] Speaker B: I'm sure it was going to be, like, really good. It was gonna. They would have shown it in that house. [02:18:42] Speaker A: Two DVDs in that house, West Yorkshire. [02:18:47] Speaker B: And finally, a few months later. And there are more, but we'll. We'll close with this. A few months later, Veronica Dunnachi was charged with the shooting deaths of her estranged husband and stepdaughter during a domestic dispute in Arlington, Texas. Both Veronica and her husbands were members of the Three Percenters Texas, a militia group, and had an affinity for prepping and learning survival skills. So these are just a few. There's more on this page. They allude to even more of them, but this is like the dark side, right? Like, they're the preppers who. Like, they're cosplaying out in the Wilderness. And they will do that until they die. Of course, if the, if shit never hits the fan, they're just going to be out there hoping that someday guarding their horde. Right. You know, they're out there smogging it. [02:19:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:19:31] Speaker B: And then there's going to be the people who are living in New York City or living in the burbs or whatever who are collecting water and seeds, growing. Yeah. But they have chickens in the backyard to grow eggs and things like that. But the far, far end of this is all of those like sovereign citizens, 3 percenters and other sort of extremists who often bring like Christian, weird Christian doctrine into it and it becomes this sort of obsession with like evils that are going to take over the world and then that leads to violence, whether against outsiders or often, often against their own families. And that is where things become, you know, not just like a cute little thing you learn about in school, but like something that is like we actually have to actively worry about is shit hitting the fan going to be these people, you know, going and shooting up places or, you know. [02:20:33] Speaker A: Yes. [02:20:33] Speaker B: Doing crazy things in the name of whatever their odd beliefs are. [02:20:36] Speaker A: And. Yeah. Does that not lead you to wonder that these people want shit to hit the fan so bad? [02:20:41] Speaker B: They. Right, exactly. And when it hasn't, when it doesn't do it fast enough, they start expediting it in various ways, you know, because I think that's the thing is like for a progressive prepper and for people like us who are on the outside of it, like we would prefer something happen so that society doesn't break down. Right. Like this is in case of emergency, break glass. Right. But a lot of those right wing preppers, whether they're extremists or just general conservative preppers, hope that it happens and we can ref. We can return to a time that they imagined existed at one point. You know, they want to get back to something that we can't have if society progresses the way that it is. [02:21:33] Speaker A: Well put. [02:21:35] Speaker B: Yeah, well, they're fascinating people. [02:21:38] Speaker A: Yes. From a certain angle. I mean, I would just in closing, like to give a huge shout to a particular online UK prepper supply store simply for the name Sergeant Preppers. [02:21:57] Speaker B: Oh, that is the most British thing I've ever heard in my life. [02:22:01] Speaker A: Take a fucking bow. [02:22:02] Speaker B: Take a bow. And you know, you gotta add a little dad cringe. [02:22:07] Speaker A: Exactly. [02:22:08] Speaker B: If you really want to do it right. [02:22:09] Speaker A: Beautiful listeners, you're gonna have to prep for a week without joag next week. As it's true, Corey's out there in Italy, and it's Christmas and things like that, so. Fuck. We weren't speaking to you until after Christmas, so please, have a fantastic time. Hold your families close. I'm gonna get a reading up, I think, in the next week or so to tide you over. [02:22:33] Speaker B: Yes, you are. And that's gonna be amazing. [02:22:35] Speaker A: Yes. [02:22:35] Speaker B: And hanukkah starts the 25th, and we won't be back for that either, so happy Hanukkah. [02:22:40] Speaker A: Listen, whatever the you're doing, whatever you're celebrating, whatever you're doing, just hail yourselves, won't you? [02:22:45] Speaker B: Big time. And stay spooky.