Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Speaker A: The other day.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:00:05] Speaker A: I was looking at Facebook and I know, first mistake. No, this is not a terrible Facebook story, but I'm looking at Facebook, right. And an evangelical friend of mine from college had posted an article entitled ancient Structure emerges from Mount Ararat's Glacier discovered by Eastman Archaeology.
[00:00:28] Speaker B: Still an evangelical. This friend of yours hasn't left the time.
[00:00:31] Speaker A: Yes, still an evangelical.
[00:00:32] Speaker B: Okay, okay, okay.
[00:00:35] Speaker A: Now for any Christian or former Christian, we know exactly what this article is about to discuss, but does this set anything off for you, Mark?
[00:00:45] Speaker B: Say it again, say it again.
[00:00:47] Speaker A: Ancient structure.
[00:00:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:00:48] Speaker A: Emerges from Mount Ararat's glacier discovered by Eastman Archaeology.
[00:00:54] Speaker B: Now if you're about to try and fucking tell me that they've gone and found the ark.
Is that what you're about to try and pull over old Marco?
[00:01:05] Speaker A: Yeah, Marco, I clicked on that article and as I suspected, the subheading was has Noah's Ark been found?
[00:01:15] Speaker B: Now, I can't remember exactly what the lore is, but if a headline asks a question, the answer is always no, right?
[00:01:22] Speaker A: Yeah, pretty much. But we're, you know, let's entertain it a little bit, you know, let's give.
[00:01:27] Speaker B: Them the benefit of the doubt. We're an open minded podcast here at Jack of all Graves.
[00:01:30] Speaker A: And this is not, this is just a little anecdote to take us to where we're going. So I am, I'm not really going to spend much time on whether or not the arc is real. But here, if you are or have at any point in your life been evangelical, you're probably like, haven't we already been through this?
And the answer is yes. Every few years we go through the same song and dance with some new technology, scanning Mount Ararat and finding something suspiciously arc shaped, causing everyone you know to suddenly be like, aha, proof of the flood. The Bible is correct in this case. Thanks to climate change, the receding of the glaciers in that particular area has led to an increased ability to take satellite images of the mountain and revealed what's described as a 488 foot long by 69ft wide structure.
[00:02:26] Speaker B: Can I take the temperature of modern evangelical thinking right now vis a vis the existence and the discover this discovered kind of status of the ark. Right, because is evangelical kind of received opinion that the ark has already been discovered.
[00:02:49] Speaker A: No.
[00:02:49] Speaker B: Right?
[00:02:50] Speaker A: No, absolutely not. That's why this is a thing.
[00:02:55] Speaker B: The, the, the best taste of this particular flavor of mania that I've had yet, and I haven't spoken about this for a while but some years back and I know I've Spoken about it on the cast, but not recently. Was going to a Christian petting zoo, right?
[00:03:12] Speaker A: That's right. Yes, yes, totally.
[00:03:15] Speaker B: It's in. It's just outside Bristol called Noah's Ark Farm park and all of the exhibits.
[00:03:20] Speaker A: I just love that name so much.
[00:03:21] Speaker B: Noah's Ark Farm Park. Yeah.
But to read the literature there, they speak of the ark as fact. They speak of, you know, the time period as tangible as something that we have records of. You know, the.
You know, just detailed talk on how it was built, how it looked, how that.
[00:03:44] Speaker A: I'm sure there's probably stuff in there about like how. And we know this is true because other cultures also have flood narratives. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, everybody has some version of this story.
[00:03:55] Speaker B: The most. And I will take this with me to my fucking grave. But the most egregious bit of bullshittery that I will never, ever forget from that day was when they brought out some donkeys for us to pet the donkeys, stroke the donkeys, Pet the donkeys, feed the donkeys.
[00:04:11] Speaker A: I love donkeys so much.
[00:04:12] Speaker B: Oh, they're the best.
[00:04:14] Speaker A: They're so cute.
[00:04:15] Speaker B: But did you know, Corey did something I gotta tell you about donkeys. It's gonna blow your mind.
[00:04:21] Speaker A: Go ahead.
[00:04:21] Speaker B: If you just look from the top down, take a bird's eye view of the back of a donkey, right? Oh, no, the donkey's back. What. What do you. What do you. What do you see on the top there?
[00:04:33] Speaker A: It's a cross.
[00:04:34] Speaker B: It's a cross, mate. It's a cross. Which all donkeys now have because one time Jesus rode one.
[00:04:40] Speaker A: It's so funny because it's like that. That's such a line of bullshittery, right? That you would think a place that's trying to like. Like a place that's trying to make all of this stuff sound scientific, you would think they would avoid something like that. That's clearly like how the leopard got its spots kind of thing, right?
[00:04:58] Speaker B: Some of these exhibits, you know, used phrases like carbon dating and, you know, like a.
Kind of like you would expect something out of a Darwin textbook, an evolutionary kind of tree, you know.
So, yeah, they. Yeah, they purported to take a scientific look at it. So the fact that there's actual science now from Mount Ararat is thrilling to me. Thrilling. Tell me.
[00:05:25] Speaker A: And I mean, that kind of. This points to exactly what I was.
Sorry. So, so allergied. This points kind of to exactly what I'm about to get into. But one of the things for, like, those of us who were Christians, but also like Thinking people, like, you're always trying to kind of figure out like, how does this work, right? Because your brain is telling you, like this stuff doesn't make sense, you know, like you believe.
[00:05:55] Speaker B: So beautiful that you've opened us up with this train of thought because it dovetails beautifully with the angle that I want us to take a bit later on.
[00:06:04] Speaker A: So amazing. Oh, look at us go. We are back, back in action, back in our game. And I love that.
But you know, you're always trying to sort of justify things with like any form of science that you can. Like I remember having like the pastor at my church, the last church that I was going to before I stopped going, he did like a whole series that was basically explaining how like the seven day creation worked, literally, and using sort of scientific things. But it also meant kind of like rejecting things like Pangea, but explaining that like, you know, obviously, like there was land in between, like, where did that come from? And stuff like that. And like trying to sort of science and rationale things out like that. Because you know that people are gonna like learn science and question what's going on here, right.
[00:07:01] Speaker B: The most compelling way I've heard it described, and I can't even remember where I've read this put this way, was that God is always humanity's first guess, you know what I mean?
[00:07:17] Speaker A: So, yeah, totally.
[00:07:18] Speaker B: What the fuck is that big glowing disc in the sky? Must be God.
What's that bolt of fucking electric blue power coming from? Must be God, you know what I mean? Until we fill in the perfect lines, you know?
[00:07:31] Speaker A: Yeah, we.
If you think about Christian theology too, the idea of imago dei, do you know what that means?
[00:07:37] Speaker B: I do not.
[00:07:39] Speaker A: It's what it sounds like, the image of God, right?
[00:07:41] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:07:42] Speaker A: And that man is made in the image of God. And so if you think about it that way, then we are obviously a reflection of God, an imperfect, flawed version of that. But as such, you can sort of ascribe the same kinds of like motivations and thoughts and feelings and things like that to God. And that makes perfect sense with like, if God is man's first guess, right? It's because we can only imagine someone like us. It's the thing that I come back to all the time with aliens, right? Like the reason we imagine aliens are going to come here and like colonize us or whatever, things like that is because we can only imagine that as us.
[00:08:20] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:08:21] Speaker A: So when we think about, you know, we're trying to pause it like, oh, how did, how did this shit happen? The only Thing that we can think of is like, what would. What would we do?
[00:08:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, completely. And it's. It's super fascinating. Like, endlessly fascinating. And a little bit terrifying to me when you think of, take a. I don't know, a fucking dolphin, right?
A dolphin has no concept of, like, tv, right? Yet physically, they exist in exactly the same space. There's a TV not far away from a dolphin, but yet some dolphins have probably seen a TV exactly this, but they cannot conceive of what it is or what it might be used for, right? And yet it Isn't it fascinating to think that there might be a similar fucking affair going on with us, right?
[00:09:14] Speaker A: Like, they have some concept that they use. Like, think about just like even something like your pet, you know, what, how your dog conceives of the world, right? You can see them thinking and processing and all that kind of stuff, but certainly they have no clue yet what a television is. Walter is constantly trying to attack animals that he sees. And, like, he'll run around behind the TV to kind of figure out, like, if it. If it walks off screen. Yep, he'll run behind to try to figure out where it went and stuff like that. Like, they have no clue, but certainly their little dog minds process it somehow within the framework of what dogs understand.
[00:09:52] Speaker B: Walter and that TV physically are inches away from one another. They share the same physical space dimensions, and yet they are both utterly unaware of one another's existence.
[00:10:05] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:10:06] Speaker B: I love that. And I. Oh, yeah. It proper tantalizes me to think that if them, why not us, right?
[00:10:14] Speaker A: Yeah. And so it's an interesting.
It's an interesting thing because as such, we're always, you know, for someone who is a believer and really wants to believe in this stuff, you're always kind of looking. If you're an intellectual type, some people prefer to just go with the. Like, God's ways are beyond our understanding and that's. They need nothing further than this, you know, Like, I'm not meant to understand, but that's why I'm not going to try.
[00:10:40] Speaker B: Yet another contradiction. I mean, in the various kind of fleeting conversations I've had with street preachers, you know what I mean? I'll give them five minutes of my day whenever I'm passing. If they reach out to me, I enjoy it. You know, this.
And when I sort of talk about, you know, the sheer kind of illogic of, you know, send my son, become my son so you can then kill me, and then that absolves you. Just none of it makes Any fucking sense.
[00:11:09] Speaker A: Right. Yeah.
[00:11:10] Speaker B: And in explaining that, the response is generally something along the lines of, well, you know, how can you, as a human deign.
[00:11:17] Speaker A: Right.
[00:11:17] Speaker B: But hang on. But you've just said I'm in his image, so why wouldn't there be commonalities? Hang on. You know, it's.
[00:11:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:24] Speaker B: To any rational, non believer, it is patently horseshit.
[00:11:29] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it's one of those. What do they call that? Like a thought ending? A thought terminating.
[00:11:35] Speaker B: Yes. Fallacy.
[00:11:36] Speaker A: It's a kind of a. Yeah, something like that. You know, where it's like, this is. We've reached the point at which we can. No further. We can discuss no further. So you say, you know, God's ways are beyond our understanding. And it's like, yeah, well, what do you say to that? There's nothing further.
[00:11:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:53] Speaker A: What do you argue beyond that? Exactly. Like, okay, okay, have a good day. Cool.
[00:11:59] Speaker B: And then I hand back the leaflet and whistle on my way.
[00:12:03] Speaker A: Right. But for a lot of people, like, they are fully willing to just kind of accept that I can't understand that, and therefore, there's no reason for me to try. You know, it would be hubris for me to try.
[00:12:18] Speaker B: And I guess that's.
[00:12:18] Speaker A: Which is always a funny thing to me, too, that people who are into extraterrestrials use the exact same terminology that, like, oh, it'd be. It would be, you know, how could I be so prideful as to think I'm the only one in the universe and there's no other, you know, intelligent life besides me? And it's the same thing that Christians use. Although, how could I be so prideful as to imagine I could know, oh, yeah, what God is doing? It's like. It's really just kind of a. Like, you know, a way of false.
[00:12:49] Speaker B: Humility about thinking, anthropomorphizing your own little ideas. You know what I mean? It's got nothing to do with pride. Nothing at all to do it. Just thinking about how huge things are and, you know, shooting. Shooting your shot. No one knows.
[00:13:05] Speaker A: Yeah, right. Exactly.
So, yeah, there's always sort of this push to try to understand things that way. So, like I said, 488ft long by 69ft wide. And explorer Gary Eastman declared, quote, this structure, whether a ship or an ancient building, has been encased in ice for centuries and is now visible to us. He went on to say, whether or not this is Noah's Ark, the structure holds immense cultural and historical significance. Further exploration could unlock important insights about the ancient Civilizations that lived here.
[00:13:38] Speaker B: Imagine being Gary and fucking finding that.
[00:13:42] Speaker A: And it, like I said, this has been a thing that like for decades has been like you can see various aerial things and stuff like that of some sort of. I mean it does, it looks like a giant boat, but it also looks like any natural formation. And I watch a lot of, I've talked about this many times on here. Obsessed with Expedition Unknown, with Josh Gates. And one of the things that you see a lot on that show is there are so many natural formations that people are like this for certain. This is Atlantis. This is absolutely without doubt man made. This is a sunken city. And then they go up and it's like that is, I'm so sorry, but that is 100% natural. You know, like once you actually start looking at it, it's like nature can do a lot of the things that we can completely.
[00:14:33] Speaker B: Completely. You know, a while back the James Webb telescope found an arrangement of like stars and gas and planets and whatever that forms are perfect for. Question mark in this, in the middle of space.
[00:14:47] Speaker A: Right.
[00:14:48] Speaker B: And it's just simply maths.
[00:14:52] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. It's just sometimes that happens just like you see Jesus on a piece of toast. Yeah, sometimes that's just the way things come together.
But I guarantee you when that happened that that picture was taken, that there were Christians all over the Internet who were saying that's proof of God.
[00:15:13] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:15:14] Speaker A: How would that question mark get up there? Yes, God did that. Why?
[00:15:18] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:15:19] Speaker A: I don't know. But for some reason God put a question mark in the, in the galaxy.
[00:15:23] Speaker B: Like right behind that question mark, just out of the range of our telescope, there's like another 50, you know what I mean? Literally everywhere.
[00:15:30] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. There's actually some like very easy scientific reason that like question marks exist in the galaxy. You know, like a Nautilus or something like that. But anyways, while researchers do seem to think there is evidence people did live in that area at the time that Noah's. The Noah's Ark story in the Bible is said to have taken place. There's really no evidence that the story is true, nor that there is a giant boat just chilling there waiting for Big Oil to destroy the planet enough to reveal it.
There could be various artifacts and things like that from some civilization, but that is probably not Noah's Ark.
[00:16:08] Speaker B: Right.
[00:16:08] Speaker A: Very unlikely to be Noah's Ark.
But I mean this is also, I mean just as an aside, the thing about stuff like that is it's like really like you've got a giant ass boat up there that Supposedly every animal on earth was on. And there's just like not a single artifact that has been washed down by erosion or something like that that shows that this happened. There are artifacts of civilization that people have found up there. That's why researchers know people did live there, but not like, you know, you'd think there'd be like some elephant bones or something like that.
[00:16:42] Speaker B: Well, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know this, I know this.
[00:16:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:46] Speaker B: The evidence of our own eyes and ears, the fucking fact that we know it doesn't. It's horseshit. It doesn't even fucking vaguely hold together slightly with a rational eye Red.
[00:16:58] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And I bring this up not because I have any particular interest in Noah's Ark, but because when I saw this come across my newsfeed, I had exactly that reaction. Just like, come on, really? Like, the person who posted it isn't the most outright evangelical. Like, I do have friends who like everything they post is very churchy and thank you, Jesus y and stuff like that. But he's not one of those. He's not constantly posting weird Jesus stuff. But I think the fact that this was dressed up as real archaeological research had him like, hey, look, just asking questions here. In fact, when other people suggested other things it could be in his comments, he agreed with them. Just sort of noting that, you know, it's interesting.
[00:17:40] Speaker B: Let me ask you something, just a quick sec.
What would it take proof wise to convince you? What would it take that it's Noah's ark, that you were right before, that God exists, it's all cool, it's the way that you were told. What would it take now in 2024 to prove that to you, to get you back on site?
[00:18:09] Speaker A: That is a very good question.
I mean, yeah, I think, yeah. What would count as evidence? I mean, I think the thing is, I don't think short of like seeing God at this point, you could convince me at least that the biblical God exists.
[00:18:36] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:18:38] Speaker A: There could be other ways to convince me that there is some sort of deity, I suppose, you know, based on maybe some other scriptures or like, I don't know, there may be some other thing but the biblical God. I think that I know the Bible well enough and I know science and history well enough and things like that that short of the actual reappearance of Jesus, I don't think you could convince me at this point.
[00:19:04] Speaker B: But how do you even. What, you know, what are the. What are the gateways that that has to go through for that to be.
[00:19:11] Speaker A: Right, to believe that you have Seen God, right? Like, I mean, we're talking big man in the sky. I mean, even miracles. Like, that's the thing is, like, there's usually some way that, like. And I was thinking about this too, and I can't remember if it was because I was reading about the thing I'm about to talk to, which I have not even gotten to yet, but.
[00:19:30] Speaker B: Sorry.
[00:19:31] Speaker A: No, it's fine. This is. Talking about evangelicalism is always a thing that gets us going.
But I was thinking about. Oh, no, it was. I was listening to the last podcast on the left and there doing like a one on, like, a murder cult, basically. You know, that was like a Christian cult that was claiming to be getting rid of Satanists who were doing whatever.
But I was thinking about, like, the idea of miracles and how in this, they were talking about how this woman who was like, the cult leader, she would do things like, she would, like, spray, like, amounts, like crazy amounts of blood from her mouth in the middle of these, like, kind of possession sort of things that she would go through. And for her followers, they were like vaudeville. Oh, full on.
[00:20:26] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:20:26] Speaker A: And her followers were like, if this isn't true, how is she able to produce all of that blood from her mouth? Then? It's like, yeah, that does seem kind of. Kind of crazy or whatever. And then, like, I think it was Henry who was talking about it. But the thing is, you have to realize it's that they didn't want to see the chicanery. They didn't want to see the carny that was happening. And so all she was doing was, like, literally keeping, like, a balloon full of blood in her mouth. Yeah. And part of the ritual, she stopped talking because, you know, the, like, demon or whatever took over control and her voice anymore.
So, like, very clearly she was, you know, she was doing this. But her followers didn't want to see that, even though if they really looked, they would know. They probably know in their hearts she was faking it, but they didn't want to see it, so they didn't.
And I think about that, like, with, like, ghost experiences that I had in my. My past. I'm using scare quotes for anyone who is listening at home that I'm sure there were things that could easily be attributed to it. Like, I remember, like, one of the things that happened was my friends and I, there were, like, nine of us, and we were walking through a cemetery, and there was, like, a figure walking towards us, but as it came towards us, all of a sudden, like, the bottom half of it just Sort of like disappeared.
[00:21:53] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:21:54] Speaker A: And all of us saw it. Every single one of us were standing there and we were like. Like, we all froze. This, like, group of nine people all standing, like, oh, wow. That person. Just like half of them disappear and it was terrifying. And I remember us all just being like, okay. And then they kind of like turned and walked and we never saw them again in the cemetery.
I'm sure that, like, somehow if we'd investigated, maybe there was something obscuring the bottom half of them.
[00:22:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:27] Speaker A: But we were enjoying being scared, too. So whatever explanation there was, we did not want.
[00:22:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:35] Speaker A: To see it. You know, like, whatever happened, whatever reason the bottom half of that person disappeared and then we never saw them again. Yeah, we didn't want to see.
[00:22:44] Speaker B: My go to response whenever someone shares a kind of a spooky occurrence or an unexplained happening is always. I don't know. I may not know what it was, but I know what it wasn't. You know, and there's always.
[00:22:58] Speaker A: And I think I tend to be a little less like. Because, you know, I tend to have, like, more of an agnostic attitude towards things because I've been certain of things before and been wrong.
And I tend to kind of look at it like, if there's like, actual proof of something out there, okay. I'm going to be open to that existing. However, I think it probably doesn't.
And most of our experiences are things like that where it's like, you could. You may have seen something bananas, but you did not want to see what else it could have been. Or, you know, you jumped to that as the only thing.
[00:23:36] Speaker B: So there's still a crumb then of.
[00:23:40] Speaker A: It's not belief, it's openness to be challenged. Yeah. It's. Yeah. It's simply the idea that I don't. I don't like the idea of going, you could put something directly in front of my face.
[00:23:55] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:23:55] Speaker A: And because I don't want to believe in it, I wouldn't. Because I think that's the same thing as believing. Okay.
If. If an apparition walked up to me in the cemetery and walked through me, I wouldn't be like, that can't be. You know what I mean?
But I don't believe that can happen because I don't believe there is an afterlife.
That's the way I look at it. Simply that if there were evidence of something, I wouldn't shut it off simply because my intellectual brain says no. That's out of the pride of being too set in my Ways to believe.
[00:24:37] Speaker B: That anything do you know, I think the. I think the.
The moment at which I would have no other choice would be that moment of review. If it isn't something that's just being shown to me. If other people have seen this and it's been through, you know, the scientific method, it's been checked, it's been reproduced, you know.
[00:24:58] Speaker A: Yeah, right. And I think that's. That's largely my thing, but, like, say if you were. If you were like standing there and like a.
An apparition came and walked through you, and I know, obviously I don't believe this can happen. If that happened to you. Is that a. What do you just go like. I think I had a stroke.
[00:25:18] Speaker B: I would. I would firstly be looking for, you know, the technology. I would be looking for projection.
[00:25:25] Speaker A: Who has done this?
[00:25:26] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Fucking hell. I'd probably blame it.
[00:25:31] Speaker A: I know it's hard to imagine because pretty sure it doesn't exist, but, like, I'm just saying, like, as a holy shit, I am out some, like, you know, somewhere walking in the wilderness and this crazy thing happens to me. Do you deny it because you don't believe in it or.
[00:25:49] Speaker B: Yeah, I do.
[00:25:50] Speaker A: There might be.
[00:25:51] Speaker B: I would blame. I would blame delirium or mental illness before. Before that final.
[00:25:58] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:25:58] Speaker B: You know, that final kind of barrier. I could not get past that.
[00:26:03] Speaker A: Sure. Yeah. Which. And also I think probably I would. I would definitely get. Go to the doctor first, you know, make sure that I'm not about to have an aneurysm or something like that. But I think that's the kind of thing. That's the kind of difference. I wouldn't necessarily be like, that can happen. Like, I just need a lot of proof.
But yeah, so all that is just to say, you know, this is a thing that people do, is they kind of want to. They want to believe and they want to see the evidence with. With things like this.
And that is the thing about evangelicalism. Part of the deal is you have to believe the Bible. You have to believe it literally. And I'm being specific that I'm talking about evangelicals because there are plenty of other kinds of Christians, especially progressive Christians, who absolutely do not think the Bible is literal. A lot of people consider the Bible to be, you know, parables, books of stories, things are supposed to teach you something and that, you know, the world wasn't literally created in seven days or six days and rest, things like that.
[00:27:11] Speaker B: But evangelicals, that flavor of Christian makes it easier to explain away all of the abhorrent bits of the Bible, right?
[00:27:22] Speaker A: Yes, exactly.
Yeah. But evangelicals think the stuff in the Bible really literally happened. And thus even the most sane and savvy ones who aren't out there claiming they see demons everywhere and whatnot, still believe that somewhere out there we can physically find evidence of stuff like Noah's ark and that the flood actually happened.
Similarly, the vast majority of evangelicals believe that hell is a physical location where people who don't accept Christ will physically be sent.
[00:27:58] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:28:00] Speaker A: Now, there are different interpretations of what it will be like. It could be a lake of fire just burning for all eternity. It could be essentially a giant trash heap. That's often when you hear people talk about Gehenna, which is the thing that comes up in the Bible. Mostly it's talked about. Like when we talk about hell in the Bible, it's usually Gehenna. And that is essentially. Yeah, it's like a trash heap, more or less.
[00:28:23] Speaker B: I love the episodes where I learn shit. I love the episodes where I learn shit.
[00:28:28] Speaker A: I'm here to teach you, Mark.
It could be different for every person. You know, like Dante's Inferno type shit.
[00:28:35] Speaker B: My personal hope, if hell is real, like Bill and Ted's bogus journey, I hope that it's bespoke. You know, I hope that everyone gets their own little room, right?
[00:28:45] Speaker A: Everyone is tortured in their own way. Maybe each of us are assigned a demon to torture us individually.
Could be physical, could be emotional, could.
[00:28:53] Speaker B: Be mix and small talk.
[00:28:55] Speaker A: That's.
That's your hell, buddy.
[00:28:59] Speaker B: Listen, as long as it's just me.
[00:29:01] Speaker A: Be careful what you wish for.
And it could simply be Earth, but without any godly interference, where we will all feel the eternal torment of his absence. A fate worse than any torturer.
Whatever the case may be, it exists and physically is somewhere, perhaps even at the center, of the very earth upon which we tread. Yes, and since the late 80s, some major Christian organizations, as well as regular old conspiracy theorists have put forth that Russian geologists have actually found it in a place dubbed by believers, the well to Hell. Come on now, Mark. Yes, the details vary depending on which source you're reading from. Sorry, but here are the basic.
[00:29:53] Speaker B: I'm booking a flight facts.
[00:29:57] Speaker A: So, 1989, Siberia. Geologists dig a hole nine miles deep before suddenly and unexpectedly breaking through into some sort of hollow and cavernous area.
That shouldn't be right. The Earth isn't hollow.
[00:30:15] Speaker B: No, no, no.
[00:30:17] Speaker A: So they start doing some investigation.
They discover that the temperature of this cavern they've busted into is a staggering 2,000 degrees.
So they lower a microphone into the hold, check out what's going on. And this is when things get truly terrifying. Because the sounds that come back, well, I'm actually gonna let you hear them for yourself, Mark.
So I have just sent you those very sounds, the actual recording from Zyberia to your signal.
[00:30:54] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
Oh, it sounds like souls, mate. It sounds like.
[00:31:08] Speaker A: It sounds like souls.
[00:31:10] Speaker B: Souls of the wretched.
[00:31:12] Speaker A: Oh, hell, I. I'll try to put this in there, but you want to describe what you. The souls of the wretched is a good way to put it. You want to describe what you heard.
[00:31:22] Speaker B: What I just heard, the sound that came back from the well of hell, it is just this cacophony of overlapping, gibbering, almost human sounding, just vocalizations. Tormented, delirious, ravenous, almost just noise overlapping itself, overlapping itself.
It sounds like a million different fucking signals.
And it's horrible. It is helicious. It is hellish.
[00:31:51] Speaker A: It is hellacious. That's right, Mark. The horrified archaeologists recorded the clear sounds of human voices screaming and wailing in torment.
The only explanation they had inadvertently drilled into hell itself.
[00:32:08] Speaker B: That would.
[00:32:08] Speaker A: This was only validated when scientists. This. Hopefully this would too. When scientists saw an apparition they took to be Satan himself rise from the pit, Trinity Broadcasting Network, who quickly snapped up the story, quoted a man named Mr. Numidal.
[00:32:31] Speaker B: When was that?
[00:32:31] Speaker A: Whose words were cited?
The late 80s. So 1989, I believe this happens.
His words were cited, they said, in a Finnish newspaper called Amenus.
I clearly do not speak Finnish.
What really unnerved the Soviets, apart from the voice recordings, was the appearance that same night of a fountainhead of luminous gas shooting up from the drill site. And out of the midst of this incandescent cloud pillar, a brilliant being with bat wings revealed itself with the words in Russian, I have conquered emblazoned against the dark Siberian sky.
[00:33:15] Speaker B: Oh, come on.
[00:33:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I love Satan. Appearing like a pyrotechnics show at Disneyland.
[00:33:20] Speaker B: Really?
[00:33:21] Speaker A: Yeah, it's just gonna be like Tinkerbell ziplining by any minute here.
[00:33:26] Speaker B: Like that fucking Spider man dummy that they just launch.
[00:33:28] Speaker A: Right? Yeah.
Now, I'm sure Trinity Broadcasting Network, or tbn, is unfamiliar to you.
[00:33:37] Speaker B: Yes, yes, completely.
[00:33:38] Speaker A: Yeah. Here in the US It's a huge evangelical network. Its headquarters used to be in Costa Mesa, where I went to college. And the grounds and buildings were absolutely insane. Just gold, absolutely everywhere. Big, ostentatious, proud display of all the money that they were grifting from gullible elderly folks and mentally ill people thinking they were receiving messages through the tv. Horrible place.
I think they, like. I don't know if they went bankrupt or what, but they did sell the building like five or six years ago. So it's just like this weird empty white castle on the side of the freeway now, covered in gold and all this kind of stuff. But the network still exists, still on every day.
And it's an abominable consciousness channel, but it is super popular even. I used to watch their late night Christian hard rock and metal shows as a teenager. Like this was. I loved to stay up and watch that.
[00:34:39] Speaker B: Your college, was it like a.
Like an evangelical college? Is that a thing?
[00:34:44] Speaker A: Does that exist? Yes. Yeah.
[00:34:45] Speaker B: Okay. Okay, okay.
[00:34:47] Speaker A: It was in the Assemblies of God denomination. Yes.
That's the real Pentecostal type with all the raising of hands and speaking in tongues and all that kind of stuff.
[00:34:59] Speaker B: All of which would happen regularly then.
[00:35:01] Speaker A: And you would see we were kind of like the bastard stepchild of the ag. So people certainly did that kind of thing. But it wasn't like. So I had to go to chapel three times a week.
And I never saw people like doing any of that stuff in chapel or anything like that. But certainly a lot of people at their churches, like, I think I've said this before, but, like Emily and I went to her RD's church one night and we walked in and people had like ribbon dancers and were like spinning and like doing all kinds of bananas things and like screaming and crying and you know, all this very demonstrative stuff. And we were like, I don't think we're this kind of Assemblies of God, but. Yeah, so it certainly was a thing. We just. Our school was a little milder with that stuff. I mean, you've answered some of the other ones.
[00:35:56] Speaker B: You've answered my next question. But you've never been seized.
No, by.
[00:36:01] Speaker A: No, I have not. The divine God, which is. Yeah. Under like Assemblies of God, like doctrine, the only way you are truly saved, essentially, is to have. I can't remember what the phrase is now, it's been so long, but essentially you have to speak in tongues.
[00:36:19] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:36:21] Speaker A: And if you've never spoken in tongues, you haven't really.
[00:36:24] Speaker B: You know, I'd love. If the phrase does occur to you, I'd love to know what it is.
[00:36:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. But you know, one of the. As such, this obviously would cause a lot of people to kind of feel like, nervous about their salvation. And so you would.
[00:36:38] Speaker B: Awkward.
[00:36:39] Speaker A: You would kind of like. A lot of people would like, make up things. So there's a Lot of jokes about, like, the things that you say. So you know, the guy who does the, you know, it was the 90s, of course, things like Kevin.
[00:36:52] Speaker B: Kevin Peter Thornton, I think his name.
[00:36:53] Speaker A: Kevin James Thornton, I think. Yes, something like that. But yeah, he. One of his, like, sayings is shyamala homila.
[00:37:01] Speaker B: Right.
[00:37:02] Speaker A: And that is pretending to speak in tongues phrase. Shyamala homila. Another one is like, badahanda should have bought a Hyundai like that.
These are the kinds of bullshit phrases you can get up and say that sound like you're speaking in tongues. And then someone will come and interpret what you're saying. So there will always be someone standing next to you saying whatever it is that God is speaking through you.
[00:37:29] Speaker B: Of course.
[00:37:30] Speaker A: It's quite a thing. So anyway, TBN is, you know, targeted at people who are in those kinds of faiths and is hugely influential, especially at that point. You know, we're talking about, like, height of televangelism and stuff like that in the 80s and 90s and all of that stuff.
[00:37:48] Speaker B: Just because it's. It's super interesting to me in this moment. Do you remember. Right.
[00:37:53] Speaker A: The first day of September.
[00:37:56] Speaker B: Do you remember your first doubt and what caused it?
Or is that not how it works?
[00:38:04] Speaker A: Yeah, it's not really how it works because it's kind of doubt is like a big part.
I see the whole thing. And like I said, there are some people who, like, they just aren't intellectually curious enough to doubt.
[00:38:18] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:38:19] Speaker A: But like, you know, you have so many examples in the Bible, like Thomas, for example.
Doubting Thomas is a phrase. Have you never heard that before?
[00:38:30] Speaker B: No, of course, yes.
[00:38:31] Speaker A: You've heard doubting Thomas before. And do you know where the phrase comes from?
[00:38:35] Speaker B: I always assumed. Yeah. Something, you know, along those lines in.
[00:38:41] Speaker A: The Bible, of course, Thomas, there's. I think the best way to phrase is from a song that I really loved in my Christian days where by Nicole Nordeman says Thomas needed proof that you had really need risen undefeated when he placed his fingers where the nails once pierced your skin. And so basically, he didn't believe that God had, you know, that Jesus had died and risen again until he physically stuck his hands in the hole, fingers in the holes in his skin. And that's like, that's what it took for him to. To believe.
And so, you know, doubt is baked into the whole thing. But you're supposed to kind of pray it out. You're supposed to use the Bible.
[00:39:26] Speaker B: You've answered the question. It's baked in. It's written in the text, isn't it?
[00:39:29] Speaker A: It's baked in. Yeah, exactly. They know the book writers knew that you were going to question that you were going to need to stick your fingers in the holes.
[00:39:37] Speaker B: Because from. From where I'm stood, he's just regular Thomas. And everybody else is.
[00:39:41] Speaker A: Yes, and everybody else is like very credulous Thomas. Yeah, for sure.
But yeah. So tbn, at this point, everything's.
They're thriving. Televangelism's all over the place and they pick up this story.
And naturally, as such, other Christian publications started picking it up. And as the Internet and the email forward became commonplace, the story got passed on from person to person, address book to address book. Soon the origins were all but lost. But each publication or email referenced some other publication or newsletter that supposedly then gave the story credibility.
I'm not sure exactly when the recordings of the screams were added to the mix, since obviously there wouldn't have been like a YouTube when this started spreading.
[00:40:33] Speaker B: I see.
[00:40:34] Speaker A: But the ubiquity of video on the Internet clearly just added another level of credibility to the story. It can't be fake. We can hear it.
And stuff like that. Always reminds me of the time that my friend's husband, who is very into conspiracy, insisted to me that some YouTube video was actually JFK talking about the existence of secret societies or some shit, and that this was why they murdered him was because of this speech that he had given and it was giving away the whole game that the government is run by all these secret societies. Right.
And so he sent me the YouTube link and it was clearly someone just doing like a Mayor Quimby ass impression of jfk. Just like this budget version of JFK reading an edited version of a speech that you could actually easily find the real full text of in the long Library of Congress archives with a simple Google search.
[00:41:28] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. It's the same kind of.
It's attributing just horseshit to Anthony Hopkins, just. Or Morgan Freeman, you know, Morgan Freeman.
[00:41:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Abraham Lincoln, wise old man.
And the thing about stuff like that JFK speech or the Noah's Ark story or the well to hell, is that people hearing them really, really want to believe. So they're not going to do that very basic work to debunk it. And they're probably gonna bristle at someone else giving them evidence that it's not true.
[00:41:59] Speaker B: It's exactly the same phenomenon as just, you know, Mr. Triveted Quotes on Facebook. Because, you know, I love. I love Scotch ooze. I absolutely love it. Right and every time I post a Snopes link sounds like something you would say. Exactly. The response is always, well, it's a great idea anyway, isn't it? It's a good sentiment anyway. Well, right.
[00:42:20] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
The goalposts move so easily, you know, because people want to agree with the thing. And it's, you know, another rhetorical fallacy. Right. Like an appeal to authority kind of thing. Oh, well, if JFK said it, yes, then that makes more sense than, like, my quirky alcoholic uncle ranting about this in the basement. Right. Like, that's a lot. A lot more credibility right there if he's the one who said this thing.
But yes, in this case. Dear friend, I regret to inform you there was not, in fact a portal to hell. And the origins of the story were the ultimate urban legend. Game of telephone in 1990, Christianity Today put out an article.
Right. We're not gonna. I considered you know, adding what you would call it.
[00:43:12] Speaker B: Paused for a moment. Then I thought. I thought, yeah, I know that game.
[00:43:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I know that game.
In 1990, Christianity Today put out an article debunking the well to Hell hoax. Again, this is 1990, first explaining some other common Christian hoaxes and urging readers to understand that they need to stop being so goddamn gullible and have a little incredulity about the shit they read on the Internet or hear from their friends at church.
Not in those words, obviously.
The magazine really did the work here, though. The author, whose name is unfortunately not on the article, contacted a Texas evangelist who had been spreading the story alongside TBN and asked him for his sources. The funny thing about this article in Christianity Today, too, is that they clearly, they're working so hard to speak to people in a way that will not make them defensive.
And in doing so, like, they don't name tbn, they say a network. Right. And that a. A Texas evangelist. I'm not sure which one that was, but it's clearly one of the televangelists on tbn. So they're clearly trying not to, like, you know, say, hey, you can't listen to this person because they're telling you lies. They know that's. That their readers are going to reject that outright. So they're being very vague about the fact that a network and an evangelist were saying these things.
But. So they asked this Texas evangelist for his sources, and that evangelist faxed over a copy of the Finnish article, as well as a letter from a Norwegian man that had been sent to tbn.
So let's start with the article the article had been presented as either from a Finnish newspaper or from a respected Finnish scientific journal.
But in reality it was neither of those things. It turned out to be a newsletter put out by Finnish Christian missionaries.
So the author reached out to the missionaries and asked them where they got the story, and one of the staffers said that she'd read it in a newspaper and passed it along to the newspaper's. To the newsletter's editor.
So they found the newspaper.
[00:45:27] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:45:28] Speaker A: In which she had read it. And it turned out that it wasn't in the newspaper as a news story, but as a letter from a reader.
Mark, they tracked down the reader who sent in that letter?
[00:45:42] Speaker B: Yes, the first.
[00:45:43] Speaker A: And the reader said he had seen the story in a Christian magazine published in Helsinki.
And of course, the author tracked down that Helsinki publication where the editor said that he got the story from an elderly man who translated it from English and thought he got it from a Christian newsletter in California.
[00:46:07] Speaker B: Good God. Good God.
[00:46:09] Speaker A: Right. Jesus Christ.
As you can imagine, they weren't able to trace it any further back from that, given the vagueness of that description. There's just no possible way. But that is so many layers of so and so said so and so said. I mean, we are at, like, my sister's Cousin's brother's best friend. 100.
So that's the finished article. Pretty roundly debunked right there.
What about the letter from the Norwegian man that had been sent to tbn?
Well, they found him too, a school teacher named Aga Rendolin.
In the letter he'd said that he'd seen the story all over the papers in Denmark.
Included with his letter a clipping with what he said was a translation.
Christianity Today asked him if there was any way for him to know if it was true, to which he basically replied that, yeah, he knew none of it is true. I fabricated the letter. And the translation is fiction too. The article I sent is a feature about a Norwegian building inspector.
According to Rendlin, he'd basically done it as a goof after he'd seen the story on TBN while visiting California and figured these dumb fucks were so gullible if he sent them a letter, they would use it as proof.
And use it they did.
[00:47:36] Speaker B: Incredible.
[00:47:37] Speaker A: Had they had anyone try to substantiate it, they would have realized that the translation was total bunk and was not.
[00:47:44] Speaker B: In fact what the entire story is. Horseshit.
[00:47:46] Speaker A: Said the inside. Well, I mean, it was. He had seen this. So they were already talking about this. Right. But he had seen that and then sent this in as like validation, like, oh, here's a newspaper clipping.
And that was. Yeah, not real. It was total bullshit.
In 1998, the legend took on new life again when America's foremost conspiracy theorist, Art Bell, host of Coast To Coast Am, played the audio clip. Have you heard of Art Bell or Coast to coast am?
[00:48:14] Speaker B: No.
[00:48:15] Speaker A: It is basically the heart of conspiracy in America. Before you had Alex Jones and stuff like that, you had Art Bell. And arguably it's was. I mean there's always a political element to conspiracy theory, but was more just your straight conspiracy theory. Aliens and crop circles, whatever, you know, whatever. And it was just he'd let people talk, they would call into the show and he just was like, yes, tell me all your things that you think you've seen.
[00:48:45] Speaker B: You use the past tense. Is he not around?
[00:48:47] Speaker A: He's dead. Yeah, he's been gone for think like a decade or more now. But I think the show still exists.
I'm not positive, but I'm fairly certain that there is like some iteration of that show that still exists or they replay it. Yeah, but it's on AM radio. Not a thing that I listen to a heck of a lot. But with an audience of some 12 million Fox Mulder types hanging on his every word, the story circulated amongst those who might not have ever even seen the inside of an Assemblies of God church.
In reality, there is in fact a super deep hole in Russia. It's called the Kola Super Deep Borehole. Appropriately, the hole reaches 7.5 miles below the Earth's surface and took geologists some 20 years to complete. It's also only about 9 inches or 23 centimeters in diameter. So if the devil is climbing up out of it, he must be on one hell of a diet.
The researchers did.
[00:49:51] Speaker B: The hole is that big?
[00:49:54] Speaker A: It's nine inches. It's bigger than that. 20, 23 centimeters.
[00:49:58] Speaker B: Okay, okay.
[00:49:59] Speaker A: So you know, three inches short of a foot wide.
The researchers did expect to reach about nine miles in depth, like the story says, but unexpectedly high temperatures stopped them.
Not 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit, but about 356 degrees.
[00:50:17] Speaker B: That's not even a hole. It's a tube.
[00:50:20] Speaker A: It is a tube. That's exactly what it is. And that's about 180 degrees Celsius.
Their drill bits and pipes couldn't withstand those temperatures. And as such, I think it's safe to say a microphone sent down to record the wails of the damned probably wouldn't be able to withstand it either.
They Also never reached anything like a hollow cavern down there, just more earth.
And as for that recording.
[00:50:48] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:50:49] Speaker A: It turned out to be just a continuous loop of the same screams over and over.
Some say that they come from the 1972 Italian film Baron Blood, but they're generic enough that they could really be from just about anything.
[00:51:04] Speaker B: I didn't. No, I didn't. You know, the Wilhelm Scream would have been a giveaway. Something like that. But no, I didn't.
[00:51:09] Speaker A: Right. Yeah, exactly. There's like no way you can tell what this is. Like you said, it's just layers and layers of screaming and wailing and. Right. Yeah, it. It meets the assignment criteria.
But yeah. Mark, for the time being we still don't have a lock on the physical location of hell. But because evangelicals want to believe so darn bad, for a decade or two they were convinced it was in Siberia.
[00:51:37] Speaker B: And I bet they still kind of. Well, okay, that, that hell wasn't real, but you know, they're just waiting.
[00:51:44] Speaker A: Well, and I'm sure this probably still gets.
Yeah, I would be willing to bet that this probably still gets passed around for sure. Like if you told this to my father in law, I guarantee you he would believe it without fail.
He's often telling us things that like we're like that.
That is like so clearly not true. But he just has like no savviness about like the idea that people would lie about stuff like that.
[00:52:13] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess one of the last generations where information literacy was totally optional. Man, you just.
[00:52:22] Speaker A: Yeah, right, exactly.
[00:52:24] Speaker B: But you didn't either.
[00:52:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I guess ignorance is bliss, I guess.
[00:52:32] Speaker B: Let me quote directly from my notes, if I may.
[00:52:34] Speaker A: Yes, please do.
[00:52:36] Speaker B: Fucking look at these nerds. Oh, mise en scene.
[00:52:39] Speaker A: I don't think anyone has ever said mise en scene in such a horny way before.
[00:52:43] Speaker B: The way I whispered the word sex.
[00:52:45] Speaker A: Cannibal receive worst comes to worst. Mark, I'm willing to guillotine you for science.
[00:52:50] Speaker B: Thank you. That's really, really sweet. It's cold outside, but my pancreas is talking to me.
[00:52:54] Speaker A: I'm fucking.
[00:52:55] Speaker B: I'm gonna leg it.
[00:52:56] Speaker A: You know how I feel about that, Mark.
[00:52:58] Speaker B: I think you feel great about it.
[00:53:02] Speaker A: That's a good, good long discussion there.
[00:53:04] Speaker B: It certainly was. Thank you. I enjoyed the rabbit holes. Any look, any more kind of breadcrumbs that I can pick out about your ex vangelicism? I will take that opportunity because it's still a source of, you know, a deep fascination for me. I love it.
[00:53:21] Speaker A: I know at this Point. It seems so weird. We. I was talking about this with Kristen and Bri just the other day that, you know, Brienne was saying something about her. Her parents still have like some, you know, hang ups about like Halloween and things like that.
And, you know, she said that she had referred to like her friends as her coven or something and her mom was like, don't call it that. And I was like. I said. I was like, it's. I forget sometimes that people are still super Christian because it's just. Yeah, it's not like at this point I'm like, how, you know, like. But it's. There are still plenty of people who are super evangelical and you begin to forget that I'm so detached from that like, period in my life that it's. It's always interesting to kind of look back because it does feel like a separate.
[00:54:12] Speaker B: It must be.
Well, it's been a while by now. Seven, eight years.
[00:54:18] Speaker A: Yeah, I want to say. I mean, but longer than that now because I've been out of grad school for nearly a decade at this point. And the last time that I went to church at all was during grad school. So sometime about 10 years ago, I went once and have not been back.
And. Yeah, and like, I didn't immediately like fully stop believing. Kind of held on to little bits and pieces of that. But yeah, probably seven or eight years since I was like, I don't believe any of this actually.
[00:54:49] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. Hence that question about, about kind of, you know, I think it's that bit on the cusp. It's that fulcrum of fuck this shit between kind of I'm in or out. It's, it's, it's what tips you over the edge. How does the balance, right, shift? You know, that. That's the bit that really fascinates me. Anyway, Anyway. Anyway. Good. Anyway, good fucking afternoon, good morning, good night, wherever you are. Listen, listen. Thanks for joining us. I know why you joined us. I know why you've joined us. I know why you listen to us every week. I know why you're such a devotee of Jackal Graves. Because you know, don't you? Because you feel it. You know something isn't right. There's something not quite fucking right with the world. And you feel that too. And you know we feel that too, which is why you come back. Because you know it's safe here to ask the questions, to wonder, where the fuck has this all gone wrong? And maybe to have a little bit of a chuckle about it all with Your good friends Mark and Corrigan.
[00:55:58] Speaker A: Here, here. Couldn't have said it any better. Myself, Mark Lewis. Yes.
I instantly start. Chant, started channeling my church self there, you know, giving me a little say that, you know, all that stuff, which is affirmations.
It's one of my favorite like hangovers from those times. And I think now because I live amongst black people again and black people are very much like this.
It's always very funny when like I'm at like a thing and someone is talking about like, you know, like social justice and stuff like that. And I am right there with all the black church ladies and whatnot. Like say that Pastor.
[00:56:37] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:56:39] Speaker A: Always, always gotta, you know, you gotta talk back. You can't just passively listen. You gotta engage.
[00:56:46] Speaker B: And if you're anywhere other than the movies, I completely agree.
[00:56:51] Speaker A: Right. Obviously.
But far be it from me to tell other black folks that they can't yell at the horror movie. I mean, cultures.
[00:57:01] Speaker B: No.
[00:57:05] Speaker A: So yes, dear friends, we're so happy to be back in your ear holes again. It is our favorite place to be.
And listen, we had, we had all of you, well, a bunch of you with us yesterday for maybe a little bit of an ill conceived watch along.
[00:57:27] Speaker B: There was book club first, wasn't there? You had book club first. You had a successful.
[00:57:29] Speaker A: I think I talked about that last week.
[00:57:31] Speaker B: Okay, fine.
[00:57:31] Speaker A: It was a great book club.
[00:57:32] Speaker B: So a super successful book club. A less successful watch along.
[00:57:38] Speaker A: Less successful. It was our first watch along with walkouts.
[00:57:41] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:57:42] Speaker A: That has never happened before.
[00:57:45] Speaker B: Not everyone at the beginning of the watch along was there for the end of the watch along.
Yes. Let this be a last.
[00:57:52] Speaker A: Specifically because of the movie.
[00:57:53] Speaker B: Not because. Yeah, not because of, you know, us.
Turns out. Turns out Meet the Feebles hasn't aged all that well.
[00:58:06] Speaker A: No, it was from a certain language. Listen.
Yeah. From a very particular angle which I, you know, I have to rant a little bit about. Obviously, you know, this is part. I can't like fully blame you. I have seen this movie before, but in high school and as I said during the watch along, like the unfortunate thing about the 2000s is that they were fucking terrible and everything was full of misogyny and racism and homophobia and all that kind of stuff where like, I think you just kind of got inured to it. Like even if you thought it was wrong.
[00:58:43] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:58:43] Speaker A: It was just kind of like a conversation.
[00:58:46] Speaker B: Yes, of course.
[00:58:47] Speaker A: Right.
[00:58:48] Speaker B: You get like a calloused to it, don't you? Almost.
[00:58:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Like a callus around these kinds of things. That does not exist anymore. And honestly, this movie is unforgivable and makes me hate Peter Jackson, who, notoriously, here's the thing. Like, obviously people have addressed the fact that he doesn't put people of color in his movies.
And that like, in Lord of the Rings, it was only the evil orcs, the monstrous characters who were played by people of color, and everyone else is white.
And you could excuse that as a blind spot until you watch this and go, oh, fuck, he's a racist.
Because there's a difference between, like, offending people's sensibilities, which is what most of this movie does. You know, when you have, like, puppets fucking and things like that, like, it makes you, like, clutch your. Clutch your pearls. Right? Like, you're offending people's, like, moral sensibilities, which are not an immutable characteristic of a person.
[00:59:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:59:48] Speaker A: Which is very different than punching down at the most marginalized people in society.
And this movie goes out of its way to do that. Just grinding the whole movie to a halt, to indulge not only in horrible racist flashback, but then to come back to the storyline and introduce another incredibly racist caricature. Neither of which are important to the film at all. He just, literally, it was important to Peter Jackson to make fun of Asians in this movie.
And I think on top of the fact that obviously, like, this stuff hasn't aged well for us generally.
I am married to an Asian man who, in his daily life faces an unhinged amount of racism. Just incredible amounts of racism all the time. Stuff that as a black woman, even I do not face, like, constant racism. And I'm trying to imagine watching this with him and being like, no, but see, it's funny because Peter Jackson knows he's crossing a line. Like, this is okay. Like, there's a direct line from Peter Jackson doing this to, you know, mocking these Asian characters to the guys who get on comms during his cons that he's working and do Asian caricature voices. You know, like, these are not. It's not harmless. It's not, like, funny and edgy. It's not offending sensibilities. It's telling people that who Asians are as people is dumb and ugly and worth mocking.
And that. I mean, you could feel that in the chat that it was like, this went from being like, you know, oh, like, this is so immature or whatever to, like, this is meant this is a cruel movie. This is a hateful movie. And then after you get that racism, you move into a character that essentially has aids. And it mocks AIDS victims as, you know, basically people who won't take responsibility for their own promiscuity and are shocked that they're being punished for it with aids. Another hugely cruel thing punching down at the people who are suffering instead of, you know, moralistic people who have a hard time with sex and drugs and things like that. Right? The target changes and becomes entirely unjustifiable at that point.
And that's where, you know, I say, fuck Peter Jackson and fuck this movie. I don't ever want to see another thing from him again. That's too. It's too much. That is. Yeah, it's. I can't. I could not justify this to my husband. Couldn't do it.
[01:02:43] Speaker B: Okay, all right, all right, all right.
Without treading on any of that, because for sake, how the am I going to sit here and disagree with that?
[01:02:58] Speaker A: Right?
[01:03:01] Speaker B: The kind of.
The Asian caricatures that you spoke about were in the context of an actually really kind of well observed Deer Hunter piss take, which was in and of itself kind of worthy of its place in the film. Right?
Whoa, hear me out. Hear me out.
[01:03:21] Speaker A: Right, okay, go on.
[01:03:23] Speaker B: I don't know if their appearance in the movie was in and of itself an attempt to racially caricature Asian folk.
[01:03:38] Speaker A: It is, yeah, very obviously is, but it's using the exact same ones that are used in, like, war propaganda.
[01:03:46] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly. And it knows that it's doing the Deer Hunter.
[01:03:51] Speaker A: Right. But that doesn't. That's not an excuse, okay? Not at all.
[01:03:56] Speaker B: Not at all. And even as I'm saying it, in light of what you've just said, it's flimsy. My only. Kind of. The only reason that Meet the Feeble still doesn't get in the fucking burn it pile is just how scattergun it is at just being horrific to pretty much everything it can in the space of its runtime.
[01:04:22] Speaker A: That's such, like, the standard.
[01:04:24] Speaker B: I know, right?
[01:04:25] Speaker A: It's like when people always go like, oh, but like, you know, I'm not racist. I hate everybody. Just. I know, it's like, no, but you're racist.
[01:04:33] Speaker B: But it's that. That flimsy ass gossamer thin justification is the only thing standing between me actively calling Peter Jackson a racist and admitting that Meet the Feebles has aged fucking badly, I think.
[01:04:53] Speaker A: I am not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on that. Especially because it follows the Deer Hunter bit, which you could, okay, flimsily justify even though it's horrifically racist with another Asian character. That has nothing to do with that.
[01:05:09] Speaker B: At all, did it?
[01:05:12] Speaker A: There's just another racist Asian caricature.
[01:05:15] Speaker B: And yes, there are other parts. Yes, indeed. And there are actually plenty of other.
[01:05:23] Speaker A: It's, you know, and then taken together with the fact that racial characteristics.
[01:05:28] Speaker B: Racial.
[01:05:30] Speaker A: Yeah. It's not characterizations.
Yeah. It's not a one off thing. And to pair that with. Than him never casting people of color and things afterwards is. Even if he's an accidental racist, he has done no work when it comes to that and finds. No. Yeah. Finds no issue with that. And I think.
Yeah. As a movie, if you take Peter Jackson out of it all together or whatever, like. And just look at that as a film. I think that there's just simply thinking about the actual tangible harm. Because that's the thing, like I said, there's a direct line between characters like what's in this movie and the stuff that my husband has been facing since he was on the playground every day. That's what makes it to me too real to be of course objective.
And not just objective, but I mean it's too real to be like to dismiss it. Right. It's the same thing that with what's this Hari Kondabolu when he made the Problem with Apu documentary and was like trying to explain this to the Simpsons creators and all that kind of stuff. Like when you do this, someone comes up to me and they do that caricature at me like this is what happens as a result of this. And for Peter Jackson, a white man, he sees nothing to this except this is just another target. It's the same thing to him.
[01:07:06] Speaker B: I'd love to know what he said about it in the meantime. I'd love to know, right.
[01:07:11] Speaker A: Like has he come back and been like. That was horribly, horribly racist. I don't know.
But whatever his.
[01:07:20] Speaker B: I really would love to know if. If he's acknowledged.
[01:07:23] Speaker A: I would be curious for sure if he's acknowledged that or not. But the movie itself I think remains unjustifiable. You know, there's no. There's no value in that at all. I think that completely strips it of whatever else it was trying to do. When you suddenly start punching down at people who are already punched down upon.
[01:07:47] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
And again through that lens it is. It is kind of impossible to rebut.
[01:07:59] Speaker A: All that is. Oh, go ahead.
[01:08:01] Speaker B: And I'm not gonna try. I mean, I guess. I mean the reason why. Bad. Sorry. Why Meet the Feebles kind of still.
I quite enjoyed the fact that it was still making Fucking getting walkouts four years after the fact. Right. I quite enjoy the fact that.
[01:08:19] Speaker A: But it's not for like, it's not getting walkouts for jizzing puppets or whatever. It's getting rightful walkouts for punching down.
[01:08:28] Speaker B: The context of the walkouts has changed.
[01:08:31] Speaker A: Right? Yeah.
It's not pearl clutching. It's. I can't sit here and watch this movie, degrade people. That's why people were leaving the chat as a result of this.
So, you know, we apologize for that, for, you know, that it. It is on. I could have read the. The guide like I usually do with things to make sure this kind of thing is not present. And I was just like, oh, the funny. I remember this was an offensive movie and all my friends like to sing about sodomy. And I was in high school and completely blanked the rest of the stuff.
[01:09:13] Speaker B: The polls will be back next time.
[01:09:15] Speaker A: Yes.
Long story short, we will be voting from this point last time.
[01:09:20] Speaker B: I really choose the movie the day before.
[01:09:26] Speaker A: Indeed, the Australian movie you were thinking about doing may have been a better choice than the one that we ended up watching.
[01:09:33] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:09:35] Speaker A: But anyway, this week, instead of going through what we have watched this week, we thought that we would update our Halloween recs. Because if you recall, in our first year, we not only gave out sort of recommendations for Halloween, but we created our sort of system, which we reference all the time on here, of sort of left column, middle column and right column horror movies.
Left column being the kind of stuff that's like very intro. You can watch it with your kids. It's like super chill, you know, just sort of baby horror, if you will. Baby horror.
[01:10:13] Speaker B: It's your on rhyme, isn't it? It's the kind of horror.
[01:10:14] Speaker A: It's your on ramp.
Anybody could watch it. Yes. Your hocus pocuses and Beetlejuices and things.
[01:10:21] Speaker B: Which I've been having a great time these past five years, enjoying a new.
[01:10:26] Speaker A: You've actually gotten to introduce them to actual children.
In the middle column is stuff that is, you know, a little more, I don't know, maybe a little more violent, a little more risque, whatever the case may be. It's stuff you could put on with your friends. Yep.
Put it on at a party, put it on a slum sleepover, you know, whatever the case may be. And have like just sort of a fun time.
[01:10:51] Speaker B: Exactly. It's not gonna damage you, it's not gonna harm you, but it's right.
[01:10:55] Speaker A: You're not gonna take it with you.
[01:10:56] Speaker B: It's a horrible.
[01:10:56] Speaker A: You might scream A little while watching.
[01:10:58] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:10:59] Speaker A: Mm. Yeah, These are. These are horrible. Your bloom house kinds of things and stuff in that vein. And then right column is for, like, horror heads who kind of want to, like, take it with them.
[01:11:13] Speaker B: It's an intentional experience to watch a right column movie. You don't. It's not a casual experience. It isn't something that, you know. It's something you seek out. It is something that you do to yourself, and as such, you inflict upon yourself, cannot complain about. Yes.
[01:11:29] Speaker A: And so we did this, you know, four years ago for you, gave out some Halloween recommendations. And as Halloween rolls up this week, we thought we would give you some new wrecks from each column of things that we have watched in the past four years. So they wouldn't have been on our list before this. We wanted to give you new, ish stuff that you can add to your Halloween repertoire.
[01:11:57] Speaker B: Four years.
[01:11:58] Speaker A: Four years. Four years.
[01:12:00] Speaker B: I love it, man.
[01:12:00] Speaker A: Isn't that crazy? It's wild. Every time.
[01:12:02] Speaker B: All of our cells have regenerated by now. We're literally different people.
[01:12:06] Speaker A: Yes. We're whole different people than we were at that point.
And so, Mark, shall we start with our left column recommendations?
[01:12:14] Speaker B: Yes, by all means. Do you want me to go first? Shall I dive in?
[01:12:17] Speaker A: Yeah. And I'm very curious if we'll have any overlap anywhere on these lists, but dive in. What do you got on your left column?
[01:12:23] Speaker B: All right.
[01:12:23] Speaker A: Stuff for the kids.
[01:12:24] Speaker B: You know, for a left column on ramp horror experience, why don't I suggest to you, Corrigan, no one will save you from 2023.
[01:12:35] Speaker A: You put that in the left column.
[01:12:37] Speaker B: Yes, I did. Interesting.
[01:12:39] Speaker A: I put that in the middle column. But I did put it on my list. Yes.
[01:12:42] Speaker B: Our protagonist is easy to get behind being a young girl.
[01:12:46] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:12:47] Speaker B: The alien is kind of. The gribbly is kind of your traditional kind of gray kind of fantasy alien design.
There's very little in, but virtually no juice. There's no gore to it. It's exhilarating. It's exciting, it's tense.
[01:13:04] Speaker A: I find it very scary. That's why I put it in the middle one, is because I find it genuinely terrifying.
[01:13:09] Speaker B: Yep.
[01:13:09] Speaker A: But it's terrifying.
[01:13:11] Speaker B: It's the fear of kind of what may happen or what doesn't happen or what's about to happen. That's the fear of no one will save you. And I think I can picture watching it with a kid and them just, you know, squeezing the hand. It's.
[01:13:24] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:13:25] Speaker B: Yeah. This sits in the left column for me and love that.
[01:13:28] Speaker A: So if you like a sci fi kind of horror.
No one will save you is a great watch. So we'll say left column for that in which you are watching Caitlyn Deever as she tries to deal with being sort of stalked by this alien invader. And yeah, I loved it. I think I watched it two nights in a row when I saw it.
[01:13:51] Speaker B: Oh, you did. It's.
[01:13:53] Speaker A: Oh, by the way, all of these will be written. Obviously we say the names over and over again, but all of these are in the show notes so that you can look back on them after.
[01:14:01] Speaker B: There are. The more I think about it and largely due to this podcast, the more I'm coming to realize is that there's like a cheat code that are cheat ways to get me to like a film.
[01:14:11] Speaker A: Sure.
[01:14:12] Speaker B: Long periods of silence I will immediately like.
[01:14:14] Speaker A: Well, this one's got that in spades.
[01:14:16] Speaker B: The Evil Dead car shot, top down shot of a car driving through woods. I like your movie. Just do those things and yeah.
[01:14:27] Speaker A: Simple man.
[01:14:28] Speaker B: And just park the racism and park the racism.
[01:14:34] Speaker A: And I mean next to Joe Ag T shirt. Park the racism.
What else is in your left column?
[01:14:44] Speaker B: What else is in my left column? Let's take a little look.
Are we watching it with kids?
[01:14:53] Speaker A: I mean, theoretically, right? And it doesn't have to be like five year old kids. We could be talking like tweenies.
[01:15:00] Speaker B: Okay, okay. Then in the left column. Allow me to introduce you to Freaky.
[01:15:07] Speaker A: Oh, I also put that in the middle column, but holy shit. Totally on board with that too.
[01:15:11] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. It's easy to get on board with. Again, it's like a little. It's a romp is what it is. It's a romp.
[01:15:18] Speaker A: It is a romp. It's a romp. It's absolutely a romp. If you haven't seen Freaky, we have Vince Vaughn and I believe Katherine Newton in a Freaky Friday situation. Except that one of them is a serial killer.
[01:15:29] Speaker B: Yep, exactly this. And he's excellent as well.
[01:15:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh my God, isn't he so good? He loves me some. Vince Vaughn.
[01:15:35] Speaker B: Yeah, same. I'm sure I've asked you this before, but is he okay in his private life?
[01:15:39] Speaker A: Is he all right? Yeah, we have talked about this. He's more problematic in the like, he's a dumb ass libertarian, but not in a like, you know, I don't think he's like a terf or anything like that. He's just like. He's just got stupid political beliefs.
[01:15:54] Speaker B: Listen, compared to some. I can. I can deal.
[01:15:56] Speaker A: Yeah, he hasn't abused anyone or anything like that. I've googled it a few times. It's. He's fine.
[01:16:01] Speaker B: All right. Cool, cool, cool, cool.
[01:16:03] Speaker A: As someone that I've had a crush on since I saw Lost World when I was like nine or whatever, you know, I have to check every now and again.
[01:16:10] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Don't be getting any tattoos just yet.
[01:16:13] Speaker A: No, absolutely not.
Anything else in your left column?
[01:16:18] Speaker B: I'm certain there were one or two more. I want to put Lamb in the left column, right. Because Nana. Bollocks. I really. Bollocks. I super enjoyed Lamb. Right. And it is a horror movie, but it's a horror movie that's almost devoid of horror as such.
[01:16:37] Speaker A: Right.
[01:16:37] Speaker B: The horror is boring. Nah, man, it's not. Right. I would watch Land with a kid in the same way I would watch something like Watership down or something like Coraline. Maybe it's got that kind of unnerving weirdness to it which marks it out as a horror film, but one that I think is perfectly cool for a kid to watch.
[01:16:57] Speaker A: The themes are so adult, though, and not in an inappropriate way. I mean, in a way that it's like, what is there for a kid to enjoy in Lamb? Like, nothing happens. These people are constantly bickering over things I don't understand. Like, I don't know if I. If I see.
[01:17:16] Speaker B: If I.
I watched movies as a kid that were. Way.
That weren't for me. Right, sure.
[01:17:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Me too.
[01:17:27] Speaker B: And when I think back it.
And again, I berated those who. You used kind of Cronenberg in last week. And I'm gonna do the same for those who fucking ever use lynch or Lynchesque. I fucking hate it. But as a kid, it was always that air of. What's that intangible, inscrutable kind of vibe to a piece that I love more than anything. Right. This kind of. Okay, I'm into this and it's weird as fuck. And I know there's something I don't quite get.
[01:17:55] Speaker A: Yeah. It's like me with Fantastic Planet.
[01:17:58] Speaker B: There you go. Yes, yes, yes. There's something here that I don't quite get. And it's fascinating. Maybe Lamb is in the left column that I would have watched as a kid. I don't know.
[01:18:06] Speaker A: Sure. Yeah. So let's call that a left column depending on the kind of child you have.
[01:18:11] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:18:12] Speaker A: It's probably. I don't think there's anything like, inappropriate.
It's just. Yeah. Whether your kid will be interested or not really depends on what they're like.
[01:18:23] Speaker B: Their vibe is, I would put Host in the left column. The Pandemic Zoom Horror. Again, just a really fucking good time. Just spooky, spooky spookiness without anything that's likely to harm or shock or offend in any way. It's just proper fun. Left Column times that movie.
[01:18:45] Speaker A: Nice. I think you went harder on the left column than I did because I was thinking like more, I guess, more kid appropriate type stuff in terms of not scaring them too bad. Where I think like stuff like Host I think could potentially be like, that's a couple weeks of nightmares afterwards, you know, like there's nothing inappropriate in it. But I think it does run the risk of being too scary was my thought process with it. And that's. Yeah, so that was my thought. That doesn't necessarily mean these movies are inappropriate for kids. It's just how I was thinking about the left column was like, they're gonna watch this. They might be a little scared while watching it, but they're not gonna take it with thumb afterwards.
[01:19:28] Speaker B: As my two left column viewers age, I'm wondering, is there a fucking fourth column, Corey? Is there a column to the left column?
[01:19:36] Speaker A: Right? Yeah, maybe there's an on ramp to the On Ramp Horror.
[01:19:41] Speaker B: You know, does this need revisiting?
[01:19:43] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's the thing is, I think if we were to go back to your original left column, it would be very different than the ones that you've just listed because your kids are old enough to watch other stuff now.
So my left column and even these, I was like, this is a little cuspy because they are a little, little on the violent side, a little on the scary side. Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice, yes. I think, you know, we put Beetlejuice in the left column originally. Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice is scarier and gorier than the original Beetlejuice. But I still think, you know, if your kid can handle it. Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, just so much fun.
[01:20:20] Speaker B: I mean, just from a. From a stimulation point of view, yes. So much to see and hear and interact with. It's. It's like a sensory room of a movie, isn't it?
[01:20:33] Speaker A: Completely. And I think that's part of why I love it so much and why it takes me back to the OG and perhaps similarly to that, the other thing I put in my left column is good ol Psycho Goreman, which is okay, you know, it's kind of. It's deliberately ultra violent and things like that, but also deliberately made to not have like offensive language. And stuff like that. Using things like frig off your heroes or children.
[01:21:04] Speaker B: We'll talk about it next week. But I watched his new film actually today, Frankie Freako. Saw that.
[01:21:10] Speaker A: Oh, I didn't know that was him.
[01:21:11] Speaker B: Yes, indeed.
[01:21:12] Speaker A: We should talk about that next week. All right, sounds good.
[01:21:17] Speaker B: But I completely agree with PG in the left. I completely agree.
[01:21:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
Now for the middle column. Maybe you can follow along with me. You can decide one way or another. I separated the middle column. This is my biggest column. The ones that you can watch with your friends. The ones that are like, chill. Not chill, but like, these are fun horror movies.
[01:21:36] Speaker B: These are movies. These are movies to enjoy.
[01:21:38] Speaker A: Oh, exactly.
[01:21:40] Speaker B: So I methrigan on the left, by the way.
[01:21:42] Speaker A: Oh, I put that in the middle as well. I thought the murder of children in it was probably a little rough for some kids.
[01:21:52] Speaker B: Interesting.
[01:21:52] Speaker A: That was my. That was my reasoning. You know, a kid getting horribly mutilated by a doll would probably have stuck with me when I was a child.
[01:22:01] Speaker B: Okay.
[01:22:02] Speaker A: Ripping his ear off and whatnot.
So mileage may vary, but I separated mine into slashers and serial killers, ghosts and gribblies and spooky sci fi.
So let's start with slashers and serial killers, shall we?
[01:22:17] Speaker B: Go for it.
[01:22:19] Speaker A: I put Vicious Fun in this one. A very 1980s vapor wavy, cool neon colored movie from Shudder in which a guy accidentally finds himself in a support group for serial killers.
[01:22:39] Speaker B: Oh, nice.
[01:22:40] Speaker A: And it goes about as sideways as you can possibly imagine. And it is very goofy and very fun and super violent, but in ways, again, that are just a laugh.
[01:22:52] Speaker B: Excellent.
[01:22:52] Speaker A: Vicious fun is not gonna give you nightmares. It's not terrifier. It's not going to be like, I'm gonna throw up. It's just fun. Slasher bananas. Ness.
[01:23:03] Speaker B: Nice, nice, nice.
[01:23:06] Speaker A: I had put Freaky here, but obviously we can, you know, somewhere between left and middle.
Fresh. Did you see Fresh? You saw Fresh?
[01:23:14] Speaker B: Did you put that in your middle? You literally took the word. You took the word right out of my mouth. Yeah, I put Fresh in the middle column.
[01:23:21] Speaker A: Amazing. Yeah, Fresh fun serial killer cannibal flick with hot leads.
[01:23:29] Speaker B: Just capital F and just with that capital F for franchise potential as well.
[01:23:35] Speaker A: Oh, true.
[01:23:36] Speaker B: It does some super fun stuff in the last few minutes of that movie that just turns the entire thing on its head. Fresh was great.
[01:23:44] Speaker A: Yeah. Sebastian, Stan Daisy, Edgar Jones. A lot of fun. Watch Fresh.
That's a great. Go back to it. Every Halloween kind of movie.
[01:23:55] Speaker B: It is.
There are so many I would put in the middle column, man.
[01:24:00] Speaker A: Yeah. See the middle column is a big one. There's a lot of. We've seen over the past four years. We've seen so many really fun horror movies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in keeping with slashers, another one we watched like four years ago was Super Host, which was an Airbnb gone wrong movie in which an Airbnb host gets a little too involved with the people who are staying in her home and things get murdery.
It was a blast.
I think Super Host is a good, fun watch for this time of year.
[01:24:39] Speaker B: I could not agree more.
Do you still want to do slashers and serial killers?
[01:24:45] Speaker A: Yeah, keep going. I'm not done with slashes and serial killers.
You got any more in that area?
[01:24:50] Speaker B: I got quite a few ghosts, quite a few gribblies, quite a few monsters.
Slashers and serial killers.
[01:24:56] Speaker A: No more. No more slashers.
[01:24:58] Speaker B: Nah. I'm gonna put the 2022 stout Texas Chainsaw Massacre there then.
[01:25:04] Speaker A: I considered that one. Yeah. I mean, that's a fun ride. Come on.
[01:25:08] Speaker B: Nobody else liked it except me and you, apparently.
[01:25:12] Speaker A: Right? We're the only people on earth who enjoyed that movie.
[01:25:14] Speaker B: It's not my problem.
[01:25:17] Speaker A: And I say, hey, if you haven't watched it since then, maybe your expectations were like, you know, you were looking for something different than what you got. Although with Texas Chainsaw Massacre movies, I don't know how you can have any expectation. They are all so wildly different from each other.
No two Texases are.
[01:25:34] Speaker B: Get over yourself.
[01:25:36] Speaker A: But maybe you were in the wrong frame of mind of it for whatever. Try Texas again. The remake is a lot of fun. Or I guess it's a sequel. I don't know. I'm not entirely sure what you would call that.
[01:25:49] Speaker B: I will put the Black phone then in this little section here.
[01:25:54] Speaker A: I think I put that as ghosts, but it's totally both.
[01:25:58] Speaker B: It is, isn't it? Yeah. You see my thought process. A chest, intimate, edgy, tight, authentic, beautifully scripted, creepy ass, fucking lovely little kind of micro horror.
Big fan of this movie. They're doing another one, aren't they? They're doing another one.
[01:26:17] Speaker A: Yeah. I think they are doing a second black phone.
[01:26:19] Speaker B: Okay.
[01:26:20] Speaker A: I follow the writer, C. Robert Cargill on Blue sky, and I think he's talked about that.
[01:26:26] Speaker B: Yes, but the black phone's everything that a middle column horror should be.
[01:26:32] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely.
The blackening I put in there. I mean, come on. It is a horror comedy in which black people are challenging the horror tropes surrounding being a black person in a horror movie while also managing to get killed off One by one. Anyway, what's not to like? It is a super fun romp that. Yeah, can't go wrong with the blackening.
[01:27:01] Speaker B: That's it for serial killers, I would say.
[01:27:03] Speaker A: Okay, let me finish my serial killers, then go for it. Milk and Cereal, which we both just watched, available for free on the YouTube. Just a fun, quick, low budget romp that you. Absolutely. If you gather your friends around and watch that, I think it's built for that experience. Just have your friends over and be like, have you guys seen this? And watch Milk and cereal. S E R I A L.
Good old M. Night Shyamalan. And Trap. Trap is such. I said when I saw it, I was like, this is going to be a Halloween watch. Like, guarantee I'm going to watch this every Halloween. I've already seen it three times. I saw it in the theater, watched it once on my own. And then when Kyo came home, I was like, you want to watch Trap? So it's. It's so stupid, but so much fun. Josh Hartnett has such charisma. I want to see him play all the serial killers.
So Trap, big time. Put that on your Halloween list.
Totally killer. The retro 80s time travel one. Yeah, time travel 80s serial killer horror comedy. Again up my alley.
[01:28:15] Speaker B: I'd like it. With a description like that, you'd think I would have liked it more than I did.
[01:28:19] Speaker A: You did enjoy it. You just fell asleep and then you never finished it.
[01:28:23] Speaker B: Okay.
[01:28:24] Speaker A: I think you always forget that you think you didn't like it, but you only watched about half of it and you were liking it. And then the text messages stopped and you had passed out, so you don't know how it ended.
And my last slasher or serial killer one is Long Legs.
That is another one that I think if you gather everyone in the living room and watch, like it's over the top at parts. You've got, you know, Nic Cage, just Nick Cage in. Not once, not twice. Like, very good. It's just.
[01:28:56] Speaker B: That wasn't bad. Long Legs. I snuck that in on the right because.
[01:29:01] Speaker A: Yeah, see, it's. It's a Straddler for sure.
[01:29:03] Speaker B: Yeah. It's not one for the casual. Certainly not.
[01:29:06] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. It's kind of if you're like in between. But I think in a group setting, even though it's a little. A little harder, I think it would be a fun watch. Different than like what you sit on the couch by yourself and watch. If you're not a horror fan, you.
[01:29:23] Speaker B: Know, I could watch Long Legs right now. I could just Hit play and just start. Long legs.
[01:29:28] Speaker A: It's because of my perfect impression of Cage, isn't it?
[01:29:31] Speaker B: It was great.
[01:29:32] Speaker A: Made you want to watch it.
[01:29:33] Speaker B: Yep.
[01:29:34] Speaker A: Let's get to Ghosts and Gribblies.
[01:29:35] Speaker B: All right.
Get yourself in front of the Pope's Exorcist.
[01:29:42] Speaker A: Ooh, good one.
[01:29:44] Speaker B: Come on, tell me I'm wrong.
[01:29:45] Speaker A: Tell me. I would never. I wouldn't dare tell you you're wrong. Absolutely. Watch the post. Exorcist. In fact, now I want to watch that.
[01:29:53] Speaker B: Yep. You'll have huge fun. You'll have.
[01:29:56] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:29:56] Speaker B: Three tins and you'll have a great laugh.
[01:30:01] Speaker A: Let the record show we saw it with zero tins.
[01:30:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:30:04] Speaker A: And we had a great time.
[01:30:05] Speaker B: This is a turn. You're the curve on that film. It was like, okay, what is this? Hate it, hate it, hate it.
[01:30:12] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Yep. And then.
[01:30:13] Speaker B: What is this? I'm interested. Hello. Wait a second. Oh, I see. Love it, love it, love it. Yeah.
[01:30:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Turn your brain all the way the fuck off and lean right into it.
[01:30:25] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:30:26] Speaker A: Right. Just decide that you're going to have a good time and you are going to have a good time. Pope's Exorcist.
[01:30:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Speaking of which. Malignant, right? No.
[01:30:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:30:38] Speaker B: If you didn't like malignant. The problem is not with the movie, it is with you. If you don't. If you didn't like malignant, I don't know what the fuck to say to you. You don't enjoy things that are fun and good.
[01:30:49] Speaker A: Well, you know how I feel about it, is that I find most of it just boring and annoying. But the last 20 minutes, if you don't like it, then there is something wrong with you for sure, because the last 20 minutes of it is, like, one of the most fun.
[01:31:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:31:03] Speaker A: Yeah. It's just like. Yeah. How can you not just be sitting there, like, laughing with your jaw dropped.
[01:31:09] Speaker B: Yep.
[01:31:10] Speaker A: So, yeah. I'll give you your malignant.
[01:31:13] Speaker B: Thank you.
[01:31:14] Speaker A: Let me see.
[01:31:15] Speaker B: Any more for you? Let's have a look. Oh, yeah.
[01:31:18] Speaker A: Ghosts and Gribblies.
[01:31:19] Speaker B: Immaculate. Don't care. Immaculate. It was fun.
[01:31:23] Speaker A: Why would you not recommend the better, exact same movie that you watched right after that?
[01:31:30] Speaker B: Oh, feel free to go ahead and put it on.
[01:31:33] Speaker A: I mean, I'm never gonna recommend a religious horror because they're all bad.
[01:31:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:31:37] Speaker A: But if it were going to be between. They're all the same ones that were the same movie. Yeah. Then obviously the First Exorcism is a thousand times the movie that Immaculate is, which is a waste of time, except for the last 10 minutes of it.
[01:31:54] Speaker B: Those last 10 minutes are excellent.
[01:31:57] Speaker A: Yeah, right. Yeah. It's doing a lot of work for a movie that did zero work the rest of the time and a lead actress who cannot act.
But in my Ghosts and Gribblies, one that I know you don't like, but is kind of a crowd pleaser usually. Deadstream, another one that I've watched like.
[01:32:18] Speaker B: Four or five times, I've come to accept that the problem's with me because everybody enjoyed that film except me.
[01:32:23] Speaker A: Just doesn't. Yeah. Something about it doesn't hit for you, but I think most people. Deadstream is just a good time. I enjoy it every single time that I watch it. A good haunted house movie, an annoying streamer, getting what is coming to him, which if you're like me and find most YouTubers and TikTok talkers insufferable, it's fun to watch him get tormented.
Yeah. And I think the conceit holds up well.
He really pulls off this character. And you know how I feel about found footage is it's only as strong as whether or not you believe the person involved.
And so Deadstream, I think, is a good time if you're looking for a good ghosty movie.
[01:33:09] Speaker B: Nice one.
[01:33:11] Speaker A: I think you'll also agree with which it certainly this. It straddles the line thematically and things like that. But the Night House I put as.
[01:33:22] Speaker B: A middle column film for sure.
[01:33:25] Speaker A: It's not necessarily like a fun time per se, but it's a spooky ghost movie.
[01:33:33] Speaker B: It's a very, very effective horror film is what it is.
[01:33:36] Speaker A: Super effective. Yeah, absolutely. You got Rebecca hall and. Come on, when can you fail with Rebecca Hall? It's just. God, like, come on. Absolutely. Yeah. I'm. I'm always going to at least give it a shot with Rebecca Hall. And 95% of the time, I'm going to be pleased that I did the Night House. Yeah, Very spooky.
Gets you with jump scares that are well earned in it.
[01:34:00] Speaker B: Good point.
[01:34:01] Speaker A: Recommend that. And my final Ghosts and Gribblies is Renfield. That's made for your Halloween times.
[01:34:09] Speaker B: Yep.
[01:34:10] Speaker A: That is a movie specifically made for you to pop on while you're handing out candy to kids. Just a silly vampire movie with bright colors and Nicolas Cage.
Can't go wrong with Renfield.
[01:34:24] Speaker B: Yes. Very nice. Corrigan.
[01:34:26] Speaker A: A couple more even with Awkwafina.
Yeah.
[01:34:29] Speaker B: It works in spite of her.
Barbarian.
[01:34:32] Speaker A: Spooky sci fi. Oh, sorry, you got Barbarian.
[01:34:35] Speaker B: Let's get that on there.
His House did you catch his house?
[01:34:41] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah. I wasn't like. His house is like kind of a rough watch too.
[01:34:46] Speaker B: Oh, it is, yeah. Yeah.
[01:34:47] Speaker A: That's more right, Colin.
[01:34:48] Speaker B: Possibly. I mean, but it's, it's again, it's a very effective horror film. So if you go into it, go into it wanting that and it just.
[01:34:57] Speaker A: Makes you feel sad.
That is one of the reasons why I was thinking it's perhaps a little more right column. But certainly between those two, his house.
[01:35:06] Speaker B: Is absolutely finally for me here, a quiet place. Day one.
[01:35:11] Speaker A: Yes. I can't believe I forgot to put that in there. Absolutely Fucking love.
[01:35:16] Speaker B: Excellent, excellent, excellent. Gribblies. But it's a. It's a Gribbly movie that there's a dream, you know, it does.
[01:35:26] Speaker A: Boy, you know, get some tissues as well because I certainly. I certainly cried a little during that one. Yeah.
And my. Obviously I put Megan and no one will save you in here on my spooky sci fi. But the one left that I hadn't put up is. Nope.
[01:35:41] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[01:35:41] Speaker A: Love. Nope. Scares the shit out of me. Great. Sci fi. It is. Jaws with an alien.
If you have not yet seen. Nope. Great Halloween. Watch big time.
Right column. Or did you have more middle.
[01:36:00] Speaker B: Just. Let's just slide in. Talk to me in that middle column as well.
[01:36:04] Speaker A: Just see, I put that in the right. I put that in the right column.
It's so bleak. Was my reasoning behind why I put talk to me in the right column.
[01:36:13] Speaker B: It is. When I share my right columns, I think you'll get a clearer idea as to where the delineation is.
[01:36:20] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, yeah. So I think. Yeah, for me, my right column picks are very much like if it. I feel like if it leaves you like sad or feeling hopeless, empty, hollow room full.
[01:36:36] Speaker B: Like you regret what you've done.
[01:36:39] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. That's kind of my right column.
Or if it's like. Yeah, perhaps in a good way. But also things that like, I just kind of think are too violent or weird for a casual. I put in the right column. So even if they're not, like, a horror fan wouldn't be like, oh, that's super far. A casual person would be like, I didn't enjoy that. Why did you recommend it to me?
[01:37:03] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Turn this off.
[01:37:05] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't. Let's watch something else.
[01:37:08] Speaker B: All right. When evil.
[01:37:09] Speaker A: That's my right call.
Oh, Jesus Christ.
[01:37:12] Speaker B: That's where. That's my right column.
[01:37:14] Speaker A: That's my definition of right column.
Most of you have probably already seen it. If you're like a hardcore horror person. But if you haven't seen When Evil Lurks yet, my God, get rid. Get ready for a bad time in the best possible way. Demon.
Yeah. Demon movie without God. And that's the point. Right? Like this. This movie is a very antitheist movie about demons, which I think is how it manages to pass the religious horror test with me. It's not the same movies you've seen. What if. What if your demon movie was completely sans God?
[01:37:54] Speaker B: Yeah. It's the most horrible and rational demon movie ever. It's so rational, man.
[01:38:01] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[01:38:02] Speaker B: It's told from your point of view, like it's in your family and in your community. But there's demons. Oops. Yeah.
[01:38:09] Speaker A: When Evil Lurks is a must.
[01:38:10] Speaker B: Oh, God.
[01:38:12] Speaker A: What else you got?
[01:38:13] Speaker B: Oh, man. Loads this right column. I would also.
Did you see the Dark and the Wicked?
[01:38:21] Speaker A: The Dark and the Wicked? I think I skipped that one based on you saying I probably wouldn't like it.
[01:38:27] Speaker B: But again, it's. It's demons. It's. It's a lot in common with when Eva looks rural America this time and. Yeah. What demons? Demons in your mum, demons in your farm, demons in your town, demons in your barn.
[01:38:45] Speaker A: You know, it's like a remix of the Thanksgiving. The first Thanksgiving song from Bob's Burgers. The sailors in your mouth, demons in.
[01:38:55] Speaker B: Your mom, demons in your barn.
[01:39:00] Speaker A: Nice. That was. What was that called?
[01:39:03] Speaker B: That was the Dark and the Wicked. Yes, I would say I would welcome Alex Garland's Not All Men.
[01:39:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Although, you know, now, like, because of Civil war, I'm just mad at Alex Garland.
[01:39:20] Speaker B: I understand.
[01:39:21] Speaker A: I still. I do. You know, men is a terrifying time.
[01:39:26] Speaker B: I understand.
[01:39:28] Speaker A: Movie makes my stomach hurt. And again, in like a good way. In a. Like. Well, this is.
[01:39:33] Speaker B: It just leaves you. It just leaves you. Oh, no.
[01:39:39] Speaker A: Right. And it gets so, like, it gets weird in a way that again, if you were like, sitting there with someone who doesn't watch horror movies, they'd be like, yeah, I don't know if I can look at you the same way after this.
[01:39:52] Speaker B: Your relationship would suffer for watching this film with a. With a norm.
[01:39:56] Speaker A: Right? Yes. You wouldn't be friends. Absolutely not. Don't bring your. Don't, like, bring your Tinder date over and be like, do you want to watch men? Because it's going to reach a point where they're going to be like, oh, you're that kind of person. And they will leave.
They will ghost you or.
[01:40:14] Speaker B: Or true love or.
[01:40:16] Speaker A: Or you find out they're really on board.
Depends on the partner, I suppose.
It's a good one. Anything else in your right column?
[01:40:27] Speaker B: I keep noticing ones that I've forgotten. Let's put Lee Juanel's the Invisible man in the middle column, please.
[01:40:33] Speaker A: Oh, I forgot about that one.
[01:40:35] Speaker B: There's a date movie. Take a date to see that.
I don't know if movies are definitely, definitely don't.
[01:40:46] Speaker A: We're getting up there with like my first date with my college boyfriend was like Hotel Rwanda.
There are some things maybe don't.
Don't see Invisible man that way. But that is a terrifying movie.
[01:41:08] Speaker B: That'S really entertained me. All right, back to the right column. Let's see.
Censor from 2021. Beautiful British Meta horror.
Ostensibly about the kind of the video nasty era in British horror. Which as you know is very close to my heart. But it's great as a.
Think of it in the same breath as something like Barbarian Sound Studio. Something really kind of.
[01:41:38] Speaker A: Which I've never seen, but really, really again.
[01:41:41] Speaker B: But very close quarters, small rooms kind of horror. Really, really, really cool.
[01:41:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Sort of watching someone spiral.
[01:41:49] Speaker B: Yes, exactly that.
[01:41:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Kind of in the. In a similar vein, I think stop motion works really well in. In the right column as well. And just watching someone spiral out in really unsettling ways. Also within the, you know, film related things. She's a stop motion animator losing her mind as she becomes obsolete.
[01:42:13] Speaker B: I recall maybe it didn't work for me as well as it did you.
[01:42:17] Speaker A: But I thought you really liked that one.
[01:42:19] Speaker B: I liked it, but I don't think I liked it. Liked it.
[01:42:22] Speaker A: Okay, fair enough. Yeah, take it. Yeah, take that. It's got the juice, that's for sure.
[01:42:28] Speaker B: It certainly has the juice. And on that note, let's go ahead and put both terrifier 2 and 3 on. But the only proviso is you have to watch them at the same time. You have to watch them and not one after another. You have to watch them at the same time on two screens.
[01:42:46] Speaker A: It's like a Wizard of Oz and the Wall kind of situation.
[01:42:50] Speaker B: I'm gonna Clockwork Orange you on Terrifying. If you're gonna watch it on Halloween, you have to.
[01:42:54] Speaker A: You might as well, honestly, because there's no story in these movies. So you could very easily just throw them up on two screens and not be missing anything. I don't necessarily endorse this, but certainly if you're going to watch it, these are right column flicks.
My mom. My mom sat down and she was watching Terrifier. She. She says to Me. She goes, is there anything. Is there any new movies on the Plex? And I was like, well, Mark got Terrifier three on there, and Terrifier three. Okay. I assumed she had seen one and two. Apparently, she had not. And I come down a little bit later to, like, grab a soda, and she's like, core, this is kind of disgusting.
It's like, yeah, yeah. It's kind of. It's kind of the thing about those movies. And my mother, who has voluntarily seen multiple Centipede movies, did not watch Terrifier 3. She. She stopped it for sake to start.
[01:43:57] Speaker B: To start on.
Well, I mean, it's not like number one holds your hand, is it, really? I mean, you may as well start on three.
[01:44:05] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean. And again, it's not like the story is something that's like, oh, no, I won't understand it. Well, yeah, it's like the story is not important to these movies at all. It's just a vessel for gore.
So, yeah.
[01:44:22] Speaker B: Speaking of which, In a violent nature, it's.
Come on.
[01:44:28] Speaker A: These are. Yeah. Just.
[01:44:30] Speaker B: Bravo.
[01:44:31] Speaker A: Listen, what I will Brave, silent. It makes you mad. But I will say the difference between in a violent nature versus Terrifier three to me is that Terrifier three does the thing that you find unforgivable for me, which is. Does not move me one way or another. I don't hate it. I don't love it. It's just boring and forgettable.
[01:44:54] Speaker B: That is unforgivable.
[01:44:55] Speaker A: It's like there's. That's the thing with. With Terrifier 3 for me is I'm just like. I just deeply. Like three quarters of the way through the movie, I was just sitting there and I'm eating a sandwich, watching people get, like, chopped to bits. And I was like, I just. I just don't really want to be watching this anymore at that point. I'm not grossed out.
[01:45:15] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. You may as well. You may as well be watching kind of true Gore on some streaming site at that point. If you. If you just literally just having a.
[01:45:26] Speaker A: Snack, just not even. Not even bothered by it. It didn't move me at all. Whereas it makes you mad. But the thing about In Violent Nature is, like, I thought it was so poorly made that it's funny. And that, like, that at least is worth a watch to me. You know, that I'm like, listen, you're gonna see one of the worst films you've ever seen in your life, but at least it's something.
[01:45:58] Speaker B: Again, I can't remember who, but I'VE seen people kind of mocking the rubbery makeup and whatnot.
[01:46:06] Speaker A: Sure.
[01:46:07] Speaker B: I can see past that.
[01:46:09] Speaker A: And that's not my issue. That's like, I mean, that's the same with terrifier. Right. Like it's obviously rubber when they're digging around in people's bodies or whatever. It doesn't look real. Yeah, it's. It's not that. I mean, that's just like compounds it that like some of the gore is like very silly bad. But it's the bad filmmaking that's the thing for me. Just like continuity errors and like bad script and like you know, just things that you're like. This is like. You learn not to do that in film school. And this isn't making fun of the genre because the genre doesn't do this. This is. You're not good at making movies.
[01:46:45] Speaker B: But no, I will always kind of have scorn for those who in an otherwise earnestly made work. You know what I mean? In a, in a, in a movie that's fucking going for it and trying its best to be something cool, I think to mock a wobbly prop or a, you know, a shocky looking.
[01:47:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:47:04] Speaker B: Hand.
[01:47:05] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, I watch slower quality shit than that.
Yeah. It's the filmmaking that I think is bad, not the I'm, you know, people giving it their all with. With that stuff.
[01:47:17] Speaker B: Is Late Night with the Devil middle or right column?
[01:47:23] Speaker A: I would say that's middle.
[01:47:26] Speaker B: Very scary.
[01:47:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah. This is one that. It's diminishing returns for me. I've watched it now three times and every time I watch it, I like it less.
[01:47:34] Speaker B: I see.
[01:47:35] Speaker A: And I like the other movie that's the exact same movie from like Argentina or whatever. More okay than this one.
But I do think this is like again, if you were at a party and you put this on, I think everyone would have a really good time.
[01:47:49] Speaker B: Yeah. No argument. No argument at all. What have you got for the right column?
[01:47:52] Speaker A: So middle column. Yes, right column. I have Soft and Quiet, the White Supremacist Women. Great show movie.
[01:48:02] Speaker B: Great show.
[01:48:03] Speaker A: One of the most feel bad movies I have watched certainly in the last four years, maybe in my life.
[01:48:11] Speaker B: Awful.
[01:48:11] Speaker A: Just.
[01:48:12] Speaker B: Yep.
[01:48:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Shines a light on the ways in which white women are some of the worst purveyors of racism. And it is harsher than you could possibly imagine. Trigger warning on every conceivable level for Soft and quiet. At the same time, it is a brilliant movie so far. Right column for soft and Quiet, but great movie.
[01:48:43] Speaker B: And while it's out There kind of on the far right. Not like that, but on the far right of our.
Yeah, I guess you'd put it somewhere close to the sadness.
[01:48:55] Speaker A: Oh, sure, yeah. Which I obviously have not seen. But yes, on the scale of things that you're not gonna feel good after watching.
[01:49:06] Speaker B: No, no, That's a few columns past the right column, I think.
[01:49:10] Speaker A: Yeah, right. It is its own special column.
[01:49:13] Speaker B: A movie that I loved to bits.
[01:49:16] Speaker A: A lot of people really love this one. This is simply one that is in the wheelhouse of things that I do not like.
[01:49:22] Speaker B: No, of course.
[01:49:23] Speaker A: But from everything that I can tell, if you like that kind of movie, this is a great movie.
[01:49:27] Speaker B: And how to fucking characterize the sadness.
[01:49:31] Speaker A: What is the summary of this?
[01:49:32] Speaker B: Just. It is an. A grueling.
The best thing about a hangover is when it's over. Right?
[01:49:40] Speaker A: Sure.
[01:49:41] Speaker B: The feeling of a hangover kind of subsiding is wonderful. It's like, oh, man, it's going. The sadness is kind of like that. It almost. It makes the kind of mourning of vomiting worth it because it ends. But the sadness kind of like that, but in a movie, but good.
[01:50:01] Speaker A: Okay. That makes perfect sense to me, to be honest with you.
[01:50:04] Speaker B: I'm glad it did.
[01:50:08] Speaker A: I put Hunter. Hunter with Devon Sawa.
[01:50:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:50:12] Speaker A: In here.
[01:50:13] Speaker B: Vague memories of that. Wolves.
[01:50:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Sort of a serv. Huh? Yeah, that's the one. Yeah. A survivalist movie guy, you know, moving his family into the middle of the wilderness and.
Yeah, yeah, it goes about as wrong as you can imagine it going and is deeply and surprisingly violent. Kind of in the way of like, what's the, like, Bone Tomahawk, where you're like, you know, you're cruising along, you're cruising along and then you're like, what?
[01:50:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:50:52] Speaker A: Hunter X. Hunter. Yeah, I noticed. I went and I was, you know, looking at reviews and stuff like that, and my review simply said, holy shit. And then I looked at, like, the top reviews and, like, all the top reviews were just like, holy. Or oh, my God.
Hunter X Hunter is absolutely brutal. And I love that Devon Sawa is a scream queen now, so recommend that. But you're gonna get. It's brutal survival horror.
So if you're into that kind of thing, do that.
[01:51:25] Speaker B: Which we are.
[01:51:27] Speaker A: Which we are, for sure.
[01:51:29] Speaker B: Possessor. Let's get that on there.
[01:51:33] Speaker A: I mean, yeah, that's, you know, certainly.
[01:51:35] Speaker B: That'S gonna take you somewhere.
Just a deeply uncomfortable, woozy, hallucinatory, fucking explicit, unpredictable, fucking banger of a movie. Just everything. Everything I enjoy is in this film in some way. Shape or form. Good laugh.
[01:51:55] Speaker A: Yeah. It's definitely on the list of movies that it's like. I don't. I wouldn't say I like this movie, but certainly, you know what it's doing. It does.
[01:52:03] Speaker B: Yep.
Just disgust you a little. Bones and all is going on the right column for me.
[01:52:09] Speaker A: Is that a right column movie?
[01:52:11] Speaker B: Yes. To me, it really is. When I think of Bones and all. Right. All I. The first. The first recollection I have of that movie is.
And I'm not even. This sounds like this is hyperbole, but it is not. Is just gazing at the fucking floor after it ended for the pretty. The entire credits, just dealing with it. Just dealing with that fucking movie.
[01:52:38] Speaker A: So it's the vibe that puts it in the right column for you?
[01:52:41] Speaker B: Completely. Yes.
[01:52:42] Speaker A: Okay.
[01:52:46] Speaker B: I am struggling to capture why it.
The fucking Marco that ended that film wasn't the same Marco that started it. Right. And that's my criteria for right column. It's a horror movie that'll fucking whack you out of your.
You know, out of the kind of the furrow that you're in at that moment. And that's what Bones ball.
[01:53:06] Speaker A: See, I think this is why. Yeah. This is why this doesn't match up in my estimation, because I just.
[01:53:11] Speaker B: You were on that.
[01:53:12] Speaker A: Annoying. Yeah.
So, yeah, I got you, though.
[01:53:17] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[01:53:18] Speaker A: Bones and all.
[01:53:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
If I were to watch that in Company, then people would think I was a freak because I would be, like, just super connected to it, man. You know?
[01:53:28] Speaker A: Right. It's like, I think that, like, on the surface, that's the thing is, like, I think normies could watch it. They'd just have like, a totally different experience than your experience of it. Like, it would play as kind of like a romance kind of movie with.
[01:53:43] Speaker B: Like a gritty Twilight.
[01:53:44] Speaker A: Violent gritty Twilight. Yeah, totally. And so, yeah, the thing that. That would be weird about watching it in a group would be you're watching it on another level than the rest of the group.
[01:53:55] Speaker B: Twilight. Except I'm Crying. That's this movie.
[01:53:58] Speaker A: Right.
I also put Silent Night, the 2021 movie, on here. There's like 97,000 movies called Silent Night. This is the 2021 deeply, deeply bleak movie that kind of sucks you in by being like a little.
It plays kind of funny, darkly funny when it starts and then becomes horrific.
So you're watching a family who is having their yearly Christmas dinner party, but simmering somewhere under the surface, you're finding that there is something that's going to happen tonight.
And they're all sort of getting ready for this thing that is going to happen. And that thing that is going to happen is horrible. It's horrifying. And this movie, when I've watched it like three times now and every time it ends I'm just like, why do I keep doing this to myself? I feel emptied by this movie.
So Silent Night it is. It's technically a Christmas movie but it has the vibe also of something that you can do for your Halloween. For sure. If you just want grim Halloween times, Silent Night gets you there. It's like your gateway into the season. Like how I always do. Yeah, sure, I thought you'd seen it, but maybe you hadn't. I always do Nightmare Before Christmas on Halloween as it's like the segue into the next season. Silent Night can be one of those as well.
[01:55:30] Speaker B: Fantastic.
It doesn't ring a bell and it sounds like I need it.
