Episode 180

April 28, 2024


Ep. 180: The Toynbee Tiles & Media Gambles

Hosted by

Mark Lewis Corrigan Vaughan
Ep. 180: The Toynbee Tiles & Media Gambles
Jack of All Graves
Ep. 180: The Toynbee Tiles & Media Gambles

Apr 28 2024 | 01:58:08


Show Notes

They can't all be winners but sometimes you gotta take a gamble on a new movie or TV show. After Marko tells Corrigan about the mysterious Toynbee Tiles, we dive deep into some big cinematic and TV swings we've experienced the past couple weeks.


[0:00] Mark tells Corrigan about the Toynbee Tiles
[23:00] We talk about JoAG & Lovely meetup planning and how well traveled the average American might be
[33:20] We're super into VR but there might be too many children?
[47:54] What we watched! (Hundreds of Beavers, The Autopsy of Jane Doe, Love Lies Bleeding, Beyond Re-Animator, Death Spa, RRR, Evil Dead, Baby Reindeer, Manfish, Immaculate, Uncle Peckerhead, Beetlejuice)

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Episode Transcript

[00:00:03] Speaker A: You'll know by now. You'll all know by now, Corrie. You'll know by now, our listeners, you'll all know by now that I just. I love mystery. I love a mystery. And not just. Not just. Not just like, a mystery in the sense of, like, an unsolved crime kind of mystery. I get a lot of nourishment from the mysteries of why. Why people act the way they do. Let me contextualize this, right. [00:00:38] Speaker B: Okay. [00:00:39] Speaker A: You're. There was nothing before you. Yes. There was nothing before you were born. Just nothing at all. You can't remember what you can't remember. [00:00:47] Speaker B: What you can't remember before as far as I'm concerned. Right? [00:00:50] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. From your point of view, there was nothing before you were born. And to the best of your estimations, there'll be nothing after you die. Yes. [00:00:59] Speaker B: Right. Sure. Yeah. [00:01:00] Speaker A: So you've got a blink of an eye. You've got a glimpse. You've got a fucking. A finger click. You've got just a hiccup of time, right? Within which all that really matters, if you zoom out on that, all that really matters is the decisions that you make with how to use the time that you've got. [00:01:18] Speaker B: Right? [00:01:19] Speaker A: Yes. All any of us, I think from a certain angle, it's fair to say all any of us really have are the choices that we make with how we fill this fucking. Just this breath of life that we have, this. This really short period of time. And it's wild to me, some of the ways that people choose to fill. [00:01:43] Speaker B: That time, often extremely confusing to me, how people choose to fill that time. [00:01:50] Speaker A: But sometimes, some. Sometimes there's. There's this act of just dedication and transcendence that just makes one scratch one's head and go, oh, man, the mystery. And the mystery that it leaves behind. So with that context. [00:02:08] Speaker B: Okay. [00:02:09] Speaker A: Um, along similar lines, remember the Max headroom pirating incident? One of my favorite little incidents of all time. [00:02:15] Speaker B: Yeah. That's an early thing that we covered here on this show. [00:02:17] Speaker A: Yep, yep, yep, yep. And it remains a big. A big love of mine. I fucking love that. I would love to talk to you this week and to all of our listeners and to anyone choosing to tune in. Maybe this is your first joag about the Toynbee tiles. [00:02:30] Speaker B: Toynbee tiles. [00:02:32] Speaker A: Toynbee. Toynbee. The Toynbee tiles. [00:02:38] Speaker B: All right. Unfamiliar. Hit me. [00:02:41] Speaker A: I love that it's unfamiliar to you because being of the american kind of genre, as you are, I am of that genre. [00:02:50] Speaker B: Yes. [00:02:51] Speaker A: I really thought this was something that you know about. But I'm delighted that you don't because. [00:02:56] Speaker B: A very big country, mark it is. [00:02:59] Speaker A: But this is a phenomena. And a phenomena it is. This is a phenomena which has been going on for some 40 years. Right. [00:03:06] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. [00:03:08] Speaker A: The Toynbee tiles are a series of. I guess you could call them plaques. I guess you could call them signs. You could certainly call them artworks. Enigmatic, unattributed messages that have been discovered since the eighties across some two dozen major cities in the states and four cities in South America. Some several hundred of these tiles have been found. [00:03:43] Speaker B: Okay. [00:03:44] Speaker A: First photographed in the late 1980s. Right. Let me just describe these tiles for you because they're all similar of a theme, right? Roughly about the size. Roughly about the size of an american car license plate. Right. So some 30 by 15 cm. [00:04:02] Speaker B: Okay. [00:04:04] Speaker A: Embedded in the asphalt of roads. Motorways, pavements or sidewalks, you might say freeways. [00:04:13] Speaker B: You know, embedded. [00:04:16] Speaker A: Embedded in the asphalt. And I'll talk about this more shortly. Right. [00:04:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:22] Speaker A: But every one of them is similar in that it has the same message or variations upon the message. But they're all. They're made of kind of a linoleum like material, okay? With the text often displayed as a kind of a mosaic. But every one of them contains a variation of the following message. Right. [00:04:45] Speaker B: All right. [00:04:46] Speaker A: Toynbee idea in movie 2001 Resurrect Dead on planet Jupiter. [00:04:57] Speaker B: Okay. [00:04:58] Speaker A: Toynbee idea. Some of them say Toynbee idea in Kubrick movie 2001 Resurrect dead on planet Jupiter. Hundreds, hundreds of these titles. Some. Many of them, in fact, are still out there for you to see. Many of embedded in. Shit. So let me talk about the mechanism of these tiles, right? Um, composed of layers of a. Kind of a plastic linoleum kind of material and secured into the ground using layers of adhesive, kind of tar based paper so that when they're driven over by passing cars, the tar paper effectively kind of glues them, locks them in place in the hardtop, in the asphalt of the. Of the motorway. [00:05:52] Speaker B: Wow. [00:05:53] Speaker A: And there are fucking hundreds of them, all with the same or variations on that inscription. Toynbee idea in Kubrick movie 2001 resurrect dead on planet Jupiter. [00:06:05] Speaker B: Do you know where some of the. Like you said, South America. But do you know where some of the. Okay, so tiles are in the US. [00:06:13] Speaker A: All over the place. Right? Some of them have been eroded by traffic over the years, right? But as of 2000, as of kind of the mid 2010s, they are still around in cities such as we're talking St. Louis, Missouri, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Cincinnati, Ohio, Cleveland, and various locations in South America. Right. There's a website. There's an incredible website, a kind of a blog, you know what I mean? To use, you know, early Internet terminology, which maps out. There's a guy who's obsessive about these Toynbee tiles, right. Who. I'll speak more in a sec. Um, but they're everywhere. They are, they are, they are. And still the spread of them is located on this corridor on the west coast. Right? Going from New York down to east coast. Let me just zoom out. East coast. Yes, east coast, different coast. I was looking the wrong coast, but yes, east coast. Um, and further inland, showing up in Cincinnati, Columbus, Indianapolis, Cleveland. They, they go kind of inland. But the main kind of corridor that these tiles have been discovered in is right there, down on the east coast, in and around the Philadelphia kind of region. [00:07:31] Speaker B: Not too far. [00:07:32] Speaker A: Not too far. You might have walked over one, you might have past one. Not funny one. Without realizing what you were looking at. Interesting, isn't it? Yes, isn't it? And the great thing about the toynbee tiles is, right, there's. There's no. There's no kind of definite answer as to who the fuck is creating these or was creating these, what purpose they serve. Why, Jupiter? Why, you know, what is the reference to? [00:08:06] Speaker B: Yeah. It's such a weird thing, because normally if someone were to, like, do something like this in this day and age, like, it feels like it's a message, it's trying to tell us something. Right? [00:08:15] Speaker A: Yes. [00:08:16] Speaker B: But like, why don't they have a website where they, like, talk about their theories or whatever, like, what's. [00:08:21] Speaker A: You got it? Rather than, you know, it's. It's a very thin path between something enigmatic and fascinating and tantalizing like this to the kind of the media courting bullshit from somebody like you, Banksy, for example. [00:08:39] Speaker B: Sure. [00:08:39] Speaker A: Right. Anonymous. But, you know, you know, a media fucking a media darling in every other way. [00:08:49] Speaker B: Right? [00:08:50] Speaker A: Whereas this. The artist, artists have never broke cover. [00:08:54] Speaker B: Right. [00:08:55] Speaker A: They've never kind of, you know, claimed why they're doing it. There's never been any coded kind of message. It's completely skewed the Internet. [00:09:03] Speaker B: Yeah. Even in the age of, like, ring cameras and things like that. Yes. They're not caught on camera somewhere. [00:09:11] Speaker A: Yes. [00:09:12] Speaker B: Putting these down. [00:09:15] Speaker A: Um, sorry, my garage band was just, uh, fucking with me. But we're back. We'll back. We're back. And, um, so very, very tantalizing. There are some. There are some, uh. Some variations on the message in some of the titles, right? Some of the more elaborate titles, uh, carry kind of political statements. Cryptic kind of political statements. Encourage some of them. Encourage people. See, in the time b tells to create or make their own, a couple of them carry messages similar along lines of murder every journalist, I beg of you. Oh, yeah. Toy b idea in Kubrick movie 2001, resurrect dead on planet Jupiter. Murder every journalist, I beg of you. What the fuck? [00:10:03] Speaker B: That feels like someone took some liberties. [00:10:07] Speaker A: Possibly, possibly, possibly. Um, but when you start to look at what that message might mean and who might be behind it and how far back this goes, let me fucking tell you that rabbit holes open up left, right, and center. There's a fucking warren of rabbit holes underneath these tiles. Go on. There are two film. Two filmmakers and obsessives, right? A guy by the name of Steve Vynek and Justin DER. They're both filmmakers, photographers, and Toynbee tile obsessives. The first guy I mentioned there, Steve Vynik, actually documented the titles on this blog that I'm gonna send you the link to so you can take a look yourself. And in a movie, right, a documentary called Resurrect Dead, which went to Sundance in 2011 and won the directing award in Sundance. Um, Roger Ebert named it the bet, the fifth, the best documentary of 2011. So, you know, it's. It. This is why I'm. I'm stunned that it's passed you by. So some. Some of these rabbit holes, right? Um, while researching for their blog and researching the documentary, uh, Weineck and Durr uncovered an article, right? In the 1983 Philadelphia Inquirer, uh, in March 1983, in which a columnist by the name of Clark Delone describes an interview he had over the phone with a guy by the name of James Morrasco, right? And this guy Marasco explained a theory he had that Jupiter in the future would be colonized by bringing all of the people on earth who had ever died back to life. [00:11:45] Speaker B: Okay, sure. Why not? [00:11:48] Speaker A: He also. It has to be related to this guy. He quoted from 2001 a space odyssey, arguing, you know, just crazy Sci-Fi stuff. Heavily influenced by Arthur C. Clarke. He was arguing that Jupiter's atmosphere could be adapted to support mankind. [00:12:04] Speaker B: He feels, like, headed in the right direction. [00:12:06] Speaker A: Yeah, completely. And he mentions being part of a strange kind of society known as the minority organization, who were a pressure group, an advocacy group who had the mission of advocating colonizing Jupiter with the. The human dead. Wonderful, wonderful stuff. [00:12:26] Speaker B: Amazing, this organization. [00:12:28] Speaker A: Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, indeed. But it goes further and further. Right? Um, you know, the playwright David Mamet. He's a screenwriter as well. He wrote glengarry Glen Ross. You know David Mamet. [00:12:37] Speaker B: Yeah. He's been. He's been in the news lately for being a terrible, complete dick. [00:12:42] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. But in 1983, Mamet wrote a play, a short play called 04:00 a.m.. Right. [00:12:50] Speaker B: Okay. [00:12:51] Speaker A: Now, the play deals with a fictional caller who rings into a kind of a Larry King esque radio show talking about colonizing Jupiter. Right? Now, Mamet has said that he believes those tiles are based on his play. [00:13:10] Speaker B: Mmm. Like, someone did not get that this was fiction. [00:13:14] Speaker A: Exactly. Yes, yes, yes. But the filmmakers, Weineck and DER, they have anecdotal evidence from a message board that they used to run based on the titles that there was a frequent caller into Larry King in the early eighties who rang in, you know, plenty of times talking about this topic. [00:13:34] Speaker B: So Mamet heard a guy doing that, wrote a play about it and then claimed that guy was cribbing his style. [00:13:41] Speaker A: Well. Exactly. So whether consciously or unconsciously, Mamet knowledge of the actual caller who rang into Larry King and has now come to claim that the tiles are based on his play, whereas the obsessives Weiner can do, they. They claim that they. They have people who've heard this caller calling into Larry King himself as early as 1980. [00:14:05] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:14:06] Speaker A: Just incredible stuff, this. This frequent referencing of Toynbee. Right. It all links back to Arthur C. Clarke. He had a short story, the Toynbee convector, all about a guy who claims to have invented a time machine, travels to the future, and returns with kind of vivid descriptions of utopia. Clark also writes a short story, Jupiter five, involving a spaceship called the Arnold Toynbee on a mission to Jupiter. Lots of elements in common with the movie 2001. A lot of it went into kind of the, you know, the. The pitch and the screenplay to 2001. [00:14:39] Speaker B: So whatever one of the, like, early sort of conspiracy theorists who, like, took, like, oh, all these people are somehow in on something, possibly they're trying to communicate to me through. [00:14:51] Speaker A: Yes. These books. [00:14:53] Speaker B: Yeah, things like that. [00:14:54] Speaker A: And rather than getting on this Internet thing that I've heard so much about, rather than, you know, rather than writing a book, rather than doing anything conventional, I'm gonna convey this to the world over the space of, like, 30 years, 30, 40 years by hand printing and embedding in the fucking, you know, the. The urban furniture of eastern America. The same message. Toynbee idea in Kubrick movie 2001. Resurrect dead on planet Jupiter, along with occasional, you know, urging is viewers to murder every journalist, I beg of you. [00:15:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:34] Speaker A: Just incredible stuff. [00:15:35] Speaker B: A little bit of a. Yeah. Swerve. [00:15:38] Speaker A: But so cool. [00:15:40] Speaker B: Did anyone ask the guy that they found in the. The Philadelphia Inquirer? [00:15:46] Speaker A: No, no, no, no. Because, um, Marasco has been look, and DER reckon they found who the guy is. Right. [00:15:56] Speaker B: Okay. [00:15:57] Speaker A: In their blog, on their website, which is still updating, by the way. Their website is called why Toynbee, I believe, or the Toynbee project or something similar. Idea.com. That's what it's called. [00:16:10] Speaker B: Okay. [00:16:11] Speaker A: Toynbee idea.com. They claim that ttt, the toynbee Tyler. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. They claim to have spoken to him, but they aren't kind of disclosing his, uh, you know, his identity, which I respect. I mean, why would they. [00:16:28] Speaker B: Sure. [00:16:28] Speaker A: You know. [00:16:29] Speaker B: Um, but what did they, like, what did they say he said? Did they, like, relay any of what he well, had to say about why he's doing this? [00:16:39] Speaker A: The one of the reasons why they're leaving him out while they. While they're keeping his identity behind closed doors. You know, when the film, and I'm quoting from their. From their website right now, when the film got into Sundance in so wider distribution than any of us ever imagined, we became extremely uncomfortable with shining a light on a person who, by our best guess, didn't want the attention. [00:16:57] Speaker B: Right. [00:16:58] Speaker A: You know, the. The guy or guys? TTT, the twin b Tyler. Uh, they're leaving his name out consciously by choice. Um, but again, to quote from their website, TTT is an anonymous Philadelphia born artist with family connections to a funeral director, somebody else who was an innovator in the world of video. Close family, including an artist mechanic. There's. There are some reports on this guy that claimed that he had, uh, or a, um, a modified car with the bottom kind of like a trapdoor in the base of his car that he would use when stopped at a stoplight, whip open the base of the car, drop one of the tiles on the asphalt, and drive off, leaving cars behind him to drive over it, activate the tire, and forever glue that message in the street. Furniture. [00:17:51] Speaker B: Unlikely. [00:17:53] Speaker A: Oh, I don't know. I think. I think that seems very plausible. [00:17:58] Speaker B: Just judging by, like, how much stuff is under a car, that feels tricky. It's not like it's just like, a flat surface under there. There's like, yeah, stuff underneath a gap. [00:18:11] Speaker A: Big enough to open and drop something. [00:18:13] Speaker B: 30 by 15 while you're driving underneath you. [00:18:18] Speaker A: If the guy. You know, if the guy had family links to, you know, to mechanics, artists, possibly, you know, sculptors, whatever. I don't know. I mean, surely somebody with that kind of creative mix in their family would have, well, put it like this. There has to be. He has to have some. It has to be a mechanism. Yes, yes. [00:18:39] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:18:41] Speaker A: Yes. [00:18:41] Speaker B: That just feels a little far fetched to me. I'm not saying he hasn't, like, come up with some sort of, you know, crazy mechanism for doing this. It's just the idea of, in mid drive, opening up the bottom of his car and dropping something and hoping someone runs over it the right way for it to stick to the ground seems a little far fetched. [00:19:01] Speaker A: There are copycats, of course, naturally. [00:19:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:04] Speaker A: The original Toybee titles have dried up since the kind of early noughties. Very few new titles which you can attribute to the original artists have appeared outside of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. That would indicate that that would be his kind of base of operations. [00:19:20] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. [00:19:21] Speaker A: Um, and, of course, many of the older ones, like I said, have been eroded by traffic, but they are still out there as of, you know, right now. Older tiles are still all out there, and it's. It's something that. I would encourage you taking a look at the website. I would. I would absolutely encourage you taking a [email protected]. Because the granular, kind of fascinated detail that the two guys go into, it, it, you know, you. It has the whiff of obsession and art and dedication, this lifelong fucking dedication to something so whimsical and strange. [00:19:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:59] Speaker A: Which absolutely speaks to me, because, like. [00:20:01] Speaker B: I said, yeah, totally. [00:20:03] Speaker A: Nothing before or after. You've just got this fucking brief ass window of existence and to dedicate it all to doing something as particular. [00:20:13] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [00:20:14] Speaker A: As the toynbee tiles just absolutely lights me up, man. It really speaks to me. I fucking love that it exists. [00:20:20] Speaker B: Yeah. The idea of, you know, being so persistent about it dedicated all of this time to something that seems to be trying to send a message to get this message to somebody. [00:20:33] Speaker A: Yes. [00:20:33] Speaker B: You know, or it's just a very long art installation. You know, maybe it's just, you know, simply, it's like, wouldn't it? This is. I've been reading these Sci-Fi things or whatever, and, you know. [00:20:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:46] Speaker B: What would happen if I put these things out here? [00:20:49] Speaker A: I think the distinguishing. The distinguishing line for me, much like the Max headroom incident, is a lot of work and effort and expertise and technical know how and dedication going into something so pointless. [00:21:04] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. [00:21:05] Speaker A: Love that. I love that. The max headroom, guys. It was like a 30 odd second fucking intrusion, which must have taken just so much coordination and planning and networking and balls. [00:21:17] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [00:21:19] Speaker A: And then you got this guy, all guys with, you know, rabbit holes going off to fiction and fantasy and fucking science and journalism and art, but to no end. Like, to no fucking end, right? [00:21:33] Speaker B: Like, exactly that. Like, is it simply a long lasting installation or is he. Does he think someone is going to get the message? You know, maybe it's for Jupiter Ians. Maybe they're supposed to see it and be like, take the bodies. Read these stories. Take the bodies up. [00:21:49] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:21:50] Speaker B: And, you know, repopulate your planet or something like that, you know? [00:21:53] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:21:54] Speaker B: Yeah. There's something fascinating about characters like that, especially, you know, if they're not hurting anybody or whatever. But if they just get in their heads like this, like, thing they dedicate themselves to. [00:22:06] Speaker A: I have decided, yes. [00:22:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:09] Speaker A: This is the fucking cause to which I'm gonna dedicate my four score in ten. This is what I'm gonna fucking do to, you know, ride it until the wheels come off. I fucking love that. [00:22:19] Speaker B: Here's to triple t. Indeed. [00:22:22] Speaker A: Shine on, you crazy bastard. Let me quote directly from my notes, if I may. [00:22:27] Speaker B: Yes, please do. [00:22:29] Speaker A: Fucking look at these nerds. Oh, mise en scene. [00:22:32] Speaker B: I don't think anyone has ever said measlescent in such a horny way before. [00:22:36] Speaker A: The way I whispered the word sex. Cannibal received. [00:22:39] Speaker B: Worst comes to worst, Mark, I'm willing to guillotine you for science. [00:22:43] Speaker A: Thank you. That's really, really sweet. It's cold outside, but my pancreas is talking to me. I'm fucking. I'm gonna leg it. [00:22:49] Speaker B: You know how I feel about that, Mark. [00:22:51] Speaker A: I think you feel great about it. Friends doing. You're locked in. You tuned in. Locked in. Fucking stuck in, caught in, trapped in. To the world's most perfectly normal podcast. Such a normal, everyday fucking weekly, weekly, weekly episodic podcast, right? [00:23:29] Speaker B: Recommend it to all your. Your Normie friends. [00:23:32] Speaker A: They're gonna a lot of fun. They're gonna love it. You know, sports, news, current affairs, fucking really broad comedy. You know, just nothing niche about this at all. This is really just, you know, you start kind of totally run by the two most normal fucking lads around in me and my co host, my fucking long suffering faithful, just right. If you didn't exist, I would have to make you up. My Jiminy Cricket, my Tyler Durden, you know? And this is. This is what. This is what you're locked into this week, friends. You're. You're. You're back here with us for another jack of all graves and we couldn't be happier. Isn't that right? [00:24:21] Speaker B: That's fucking right. Mark Lewis. [00:24:24] Speaker A: Love it. [00:24:24] Speaker B: Remember there was that. That point for, like, the first year of this or whatever, till we'd met each other where I was like, maybe I'm a deepfake. [00:24:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Or maybe I am. And it's. You know, we went deep quickly, didn't we, you and me? It was like we'd always been out there waiting for one another. [00:24:44] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:24:45] Speaker A: Is that. Does that sound weird? I don't mean that to sound strange. [00:24:47] Speaker B: No, I don't think that's weird at all. I don't know. We just went through, like, this whole thing about how, like, not normal we are, so I don't think either of us are a great judge of whether that's weird or not. Friends listening. Is that weird? Is that strange? Weird to say, like, we were out there just waiting, like, you know, all this time, telling each other jokes on Snapchat and just fighting our time, things. [00:25:09] Speaker A: Of that nature and. Yeah, I mean, why don't we kick off with. I mean, you wanted to talk a little bit about how it's about to get even more real, isn't it? Wherever we're five months out, we are. Yes. From the next inevitable, you know, in fucking. In deniable, which is a word indeniable. Yeah. Yeah. Stage of the joach journey, which is. [00:25:35] Speaker B: That's right. [00:25:36] Speaker A: New York. New York. The city so nice, they named it twice. I'm gonna eat a slice. I'm gonna grab a cop's gun. [00:25:49] Speaker B: Obviously. [00:25:50] Speaker A: I'm gonna jaywalk. [00:25:52] Speaker B: Sure. [00:25:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Why not? Take your life in your hands. [00:25:58] Speaker A: I'm gonna enjoy the campaigning. I'm gonna enjoy the rallying, which I dare say might be going on over there at the time. [00:26:04] Speaker B: Oh, boy. Yeah. It's gonna be a hot time in the old town, that's for sure. [00:26:09] Speaker A: More than anything else. Do you know what? I'm gonna fucking. Just blunder around like a clueless fuck. That's what I'm gonna do. That's the one thing I'm looking forward to. [00:26:17] Speaker B: Sure. You'll have all of us Americans to steer you around at the Joag and lovely meetup, the dead and lovely and Joag Meetup in New York, New Jersey, in just five months, the last weekend of September. So what I'm gonna do, that mark was referencing is I'm working on putting a page on our website with some information, you know, because this is. It's a. It's a long way to go. Like, I'm sure there's people who are, you know, this is like, they're gonna use it to make, like, a vacation out of it. Like, I've always wanted to go to New York or whatever. I'm gonna spend some time, things like that. So I'm gonna put up, like, a website to sort of update on information as we go along and get closer to this. [00:27:02] Speaker A: So, yes, I'm not asking you to speak for all Americans. Right. [00:27:05] Speaker B: Oh, boy. Okay. [00:27:07] Speaker A: It's an interesting start, you know? Cause America's huge as fuck. [00:27:11] Speaker B: It is. Yes. [00:27:12] Speaker A: How? By the time they reach your age. [00:27:15] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [00:27:16] Speaker A: How much? [00:27:17] Speaker B: Which is what, Mark? What's my age? Just out of curiosity. [00:27:20] Speaker A: Don't. Please don't do this now. [00:27:23] Speaker B: Just curious. [00:27:25] Speaker A: Please don't. [00:27:28] Speaker B: Go on. By the time Americans. [00:27:33] Speaker A: By the time Americans reach my undisclosed age, I think you. Oh, please don't. I'm dying. Please don't. [00:27:43] Speaker B: Go on. Go. What were you gonna say? [00:27:45] Speaker A: 41. [00:27:46] Speaker B: Come on. Less. [00:27:49] Speaker A: 38. [00:27:49] Speaker B: Less. Hey, there it is. [00:27:51] Speaker A: There you go. First try. How much of America has an american normally seen by the time they get to 38, which you are? [00:27:59] Speaker B: That's a really good question. Yeah, that's a really good question. I feel like because I'm a coastal american, that's skewed for me. [00:28:12] Speaker A: No, you're by no means the median line of anything, are you? [00:28:16] Speaker B: No, absolutely not. Yeah, I go places a lot more than other people do, but also, it's smaller this side of the country than, say, the middle of the country. Or if you're, like, in California, you might go to Vegas or things. Like, there's other places to go. And California's huge. All that kind of stuff where, like, I can't speak for people who live in, like, Missouri or, you know, live somewhere in the middle, in a flyover state or whatever, how much of the United States they'd see. But we do have, like, a road trip culture here. Yes. So, you know, I feel like when I see people do those. How many states have you been to? Maps that they put on instagram or whatever. I would say on average, people have usually been somewhere, like, eight to ten states in general. Yeah, that would be. Not everybody has, but I think that's what I tend to see on there. [00:29:15] Speaker A: So there isn't like a kind of a national wanderlust, would you say? Not everybody wants to see the whole country. [00:29:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Here's the thing. Like, the middle. There's no reason to go to a lot of it, you know? So, like, there's a whole section that it's like, do you want to see corn for 13 hours, then. [00:29:38] Speaker A: Sure. [00:29:40] Speaker B: What was that? [00:29:41] Speaker A: That was corn. The band, are they on tour? [00:29:46] Speaker B: It's just everywhere. Everywhere you go, the middle of the United States is just Jonathan Davis as far as the eye can see. Did I go see corn in the cornfields? [00:29:58] Speaker A: See, right. To me, corn doesn't mean the vegetable. Corn means the band. And then the vegetable after is the second meaning of corn. [00:30:04] Speaker B: Well, if you lived in Nebraska, you'd probably reverse that. I think. Like, when we drove from California to here, when we moved, it was like, oh, there's so many beautiful things. We're driving through Utah and seeing, like, rock formations. That blew my mind. It was like being on another planet. You're going through all these, like, gorgeous places and interesting things and then you hit like, Nebraska and Iowa and Indiana and you're like, Jesus Christ, this is a nightmare. It's like being in a video game where everything just repeats. [00:30:34] Speaker A: I see. [00:30:36] Speaker B: So there's parts of the US that it's like, obviously people live there, but they're not like vacation destinations or things like that. Okay, so, yeah, that's kind of. I think it's not that people don't want to go places, it's just that there's like, there's certain places that, like Florida, New York, California, Seattle, that are like, destinations as opposed to others. [00:30:57] Speaker A: Fine. Which is a full and perfectly satisfying answer. Thank you. [00:31:03] Speaker B: Yeah, it's interesting, though, because, like, you know, you've said several times that I've probably seen more of the UK than most people in the UK have. [00:31:11] Speaker A: I stand by that. [00:31:12] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's just fascinating to me because it's small. So I'm like, what? Everybody doesn't just like, wander all of this? [00:31:20] Speaker A: Well, I guess the answer is similar, but on a smaller scale. I mean, there are destination parts of the UK. [00:31:27] Speaker B: Sure. [00:31:28] Speaker A: And then there's, you know, housing estates. [00:31:33] Speaker B: Right. [00:31:34] Speaker A: Nobody's gonna want to go to fucking, you know, Durham. [00:31:39] Speaker B: Sure, yeah, I guess. I guess not. I don't know, but it's also close together that it just feels like you'd kind. [00:31:44] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:31:45] Speaker B: Be everywhere, you know? So, yeah, I don't know. If the US was the size of the UK, I wonder how much of it people would see. But I don't know. But I live in a destination now. This is a place people absolutely do try to see at some point. Like, I'd say, like, most Americans try to go see New York City at some point in their lives. Like, that's a given that you're gonna attempt to come here at some point. Big destination. So, yeah, if you are planning to come here, I'm working on that'll tell you things like what apps you should download to get the bus or, you know, where we're planning to meet up in times and, you know, some suggestions on where to stay. The plan, as I sort of have it now, is to start here in Jersey on the Friday, but people are welcome to see stay in New York or stay out here. Either way, it's a little cheaper to stay out here than it is in the city, and it's a quick train ride in, but, you know, you can do either way. But I'll give you some suggestions around here and all that kind of stuff so that, you know, where we can try to stick together and all that kind of stuff as much as possible. And, yeah, so keep an eye out. I will pop that up on the socials once I get it all made and everything. And it'll change as we get closer. There's things, you know, trying to figure out about setting up and all that kind of stuff, but it's gonna be a good time. Save the date. End of September. [00:33:22] Speaker A: Very exciting. Very exciting stuff. [00:33:24] Speaker B: It's very exciting stuff. But in the meantime, you know, we obviously live very far, far from each other, but we have figured out a new way to hang out with each other. [00:33:36] Speaker A: Oh, wasn't this fun? [00:33:36] Speaker B: I'm excited about. [00:33:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I can't take any credit for this. This was my good friend Danny B. Danny the bastard who has, you know, we've been kind of badgering one another to carve out some time to try bigscreen, which is an app on meta Quest, which allows you to kind of share a virtual space with people and watch movies on a virtual big screen. And it works really well. [00:34:04] Speaker B: It works super well. And for those that don't know, MetaQuest is, like, formerly known as Oculus. So it's VR. And so I have the. The one that was originally called in Oculus, I have the meta Quest two, and you guys have the threes. The sort of newer version did not seem to make a difference one way or another. And we watched Evil Dead 2013 together in, like, this cool little campfire setting. [00:34:32] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:34:33] Speaker B: You know, the thing I hadn't anticipated that I should have is the potential for jump scares in VR. [00:34:41] Speaker A: You can? Yeah. [00:34:42] Speaker B: From your fellow. Yeah, yeah. So every now and again, someone would just appear next to me in the room and terrify me. [00:34:53] Speaker A: Upon exploring this app a little bit. You can host rooms, of course you can host rooms and invite your friends and so on and so on. But there are lots of publicly open rooms as well, where people are just screening films. And you can go along and just sit there for a while with a virtual cinema full of people and watch a movie. I watched, you know, 1015 minutes of the thing in three d. Three d. Movies work excellently well. [00:35:18] Speaker B: Nice. [00:35:19] Speaker A: Like, they really do. 3d movies work great. They do. So I watched a bit, the thing in 3D jumped into another room where people were watching Deadpool. Just at the movies. You know, it's, it's like being at the movies. [00:35:33] Speaker B: Did people talk at all, or was it quiet? Everyone's, well, they're watching movies. [00:35:38] Speaker A: Um, there, there are kind of rules on the, the kind of, the lobby for every one of these rooms. And I, okay, I, I got sternly told to, can you meet your mic, please? By some british sounding dude when I laughed during Deadpool. I mean, how dare I? [00:35:52] Speaker B: Wow. [00:35:53] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Can you mic? [00:35:54] Speaker B: As you've said, brits aren't as interactive in the theaters. [00:35:58] Speaker A: Asians are, which I couldn't handle. I could not deal with that. [00:36:08] Speaker B: It really, it depends. I do, I like a certain level of interaction. I don't like people talking, having separate conversations or talking in general. That's not what I'm looking for. But I love loud laughter. I love reacting to things on there. That's like part of the cinema experience to me. [00:36:27] Speaker A: Heavens no. I mean, laugh, but that's like an involuntary reaction sometimes, isn't it? Just goes to show the movie is working, but, you know, commenting and fucking. [00:36:38] Speaker B: Yeah, that's, that's, that's no, unless you're funny. But no, no, every now and again, someone will, someone will, you know, throw out something, like, as a, as a reaction to something that makes everybody else laugh as a result. But yeah, not in, not like a nobody who thinks they're a comedian come in and, like, make quips or whatever. That's a whole other thing. But a genuine someone just like, oop, saying a thing. That doesn't bother me. [00:37:06] Speaker A: I don't know. Again, I didn't pay my 5.99 to listen to your thoughts on this movie. [00:37:14] Speaker B: It's so cheap for you too. Like, for $5.99. Talk through. Talk through, whatever. [00:37:20] Speaker A: I don't give a fuck. [00:37:21] Speaker B: Like, it's the fact that it cost me $17 to go see a movie for a matinee. That's the reason that I'm mad when people talk through it. Like, uh, drives me. [00:37:33] Speaker A: But no. Um, big screen is a load of fun. A load. A load of fun. Yeah. [00:37:37] Speaker B: It was so cool. Just, you know, the way that this room we were in is doomed to. [00:37:44] Speaker A: Never be really mainstream, is it? Nobody's. It's always gonna be niche, I think. [00:37:49] Speaker B: Do you think? [00:37:50] Speaker A: Yes, I do. I do. [00:37:52] Speaker B: Part of me thinks that as, like, the climate crisis worsens and people lose the ability to travel or go outside in their places and stuff like that, that VR might gain more traction because I've been playing an exercise, a fitness game on there called supernatural. And when I play this game, it's like it takes you to all these different locations. Like, there was like, one of the locations was like the great Wall of China today. Or like, you know, they do Milford Sound and New Zealand or like, all kinds of these locations. And I'm looking around and it's like, this really looks like. I like, I've been to Milford Sound. I'm like, this looks like Milford Sound. You know, and I feel like there's. Yeah, it has potential in a time when people may increasingly be stuck where they are to potentially both for, like, social things, like using big screen and to see the world in ways that you wouldn't be able to otherwise. [00:38:52] Speaker A: Yes, both excellent points. There have been, I mean, barriers so far have been cost, but even. Even when it was produced, like, I mean, Google did like a cardboard fold up fucking headset. You could just slot your. [00:39:04] Speaker B: Yeah, apparently there's a Nintendo one someone just showed me earlier. [00:39:07] Speaker A: Yeah, we had labo. Yeah, labo was excellent. Ah. Just the kind of purely Nintendo thing that only Nintendo could ever do. That takes just perfect advantage of the hardware which they released that nobody else could ever do except Nintendo. There were a few different packs called, you know, label construction packs. And they were kind of thick corrugated, kind of construction grade cardboard with step by step instructions. And you could build your own little fishing rod which you would use in a game. You could build like, a robot. You would slot a switch controller into and make it vibrate using the game, and the robot would move. Super fun, hands on, tactile kind of play, right? [00:39:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:47] Speaker A: And it was brilliant. And then they released it, and just as quickly you completely forgot about it, never to be repeated. A beautiful little Nintendo experiment. Label was a great. [00:39:56] Speaker B: Yeah, it has to be both, like, cost effective and a little more like, I think still these headsets are like, so clunky and huge and things like that. That, like, you know, if these get smaller, that also will make a difference in. It's like, right now it's still like, my neck kind of hurts if I wear it for too long. And, like, you know, there's, like, weight. [00:40:18] Speaker A: Is all in the front of your head, isn't it? [00:40:20] Speaker B: Right. And it. And it's not fully connected to everything. So it's like, for example, like, there's an app on my phone or whatever to keep track of my workouts with supernatural. And if I want to do that, like, and have it go, like, through my watch or whatever, I have to scroll up, get the, like, app on my phone, and, like. Or on my watch and start it. And there's, like, things like that. That it's like, if this means I have to take it off or, like, try to look under it to try to, like, function, or, like, if I want to log into YouTube or something like that, I have to take off the thing and log in on my phone and have that send there that it's like it's not fully integrated with, where you can just do everything in it. [00:41:01] Speaker A: Yep. [00:41:01] Speaker B: And I think that's another barrier to, you know, it being a thing everyone has besides cost, is that it's like, it's not fully there yet in terms of, like, I can sit in this for hours, like, it's the holodeck and never have to have to leave, you know? [00:41:18] Speaker A: Oh, man. I mean, everyone wants a holodeck. [00:41:22] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, absolutely. That's the dream. [00:41:25] Speaker A: I'd never leave. I would never, ever. I would rot and die in the. [00:41:30] Speaker B: Holodeck, which is, unfortunately, that I think is, you know. Oh, well, I did see something about, like, a treadmill in VR yesterday, but, yeah. [00:41:40] Speaker A: Disney up their sleeves, don't they? By all accounts. [00:41:44] Speaker B: Right? Yeah, but it's like your limited amount of space precludes us from the full holodeck experience. Cause you can't really walk. [00:41:54] Speaker A: No. [00:41:54] Speaker B: In VR. [00:41:55] Speaker A: No. [00:41:56] Speaker B: There's plenty of videos of the bad things that happen when people attempt to. [00:42:00] Speaker A: Oh, hilarious videos. So many tv shows. [00:42:02] Speaker B: I love them. [00:42:03] Speaker A: But, yeah. All of which is to say that, yes, it's super cool. And I think something that you and I will be doing more of. [00:42:09] Speaker B: Absolutely. I think this. We should definitely up some of our movie nights with the VR and just, you know, especially when we watch those ones that lend themselves to talking and joking through, as opposed to ones we're, like, really focusing on trying to watch. [00:42:24] Speaker A: Yes, definitely. [00:42:25] Speaker B: But if you guys have VR, let us know, and, you know, well, the meta VR specifically, and we can, you know, be friends and play games together or whatever. It is very fun. I went into, I was exploring the, like, meta horizon worlds. I was just like, oh, what all's in here? And walking around in that and stuff like that. And it's just like, kids everywhere. [00:42:49] Speaker A: I'll tell you what's in, it's children. [00:42:51] Speaker B: It's children. Which feels very weird to me. And so, like, kids kept coming up to me. Oh, my God. Some of the cutest speech impediments I've ever heard in my life. I'm like, how does every kid in here have a speech impedance impediment? They come up and just be like, do you want to play with me? Like, no, I'm a grown up. Like, you know, like, watching stuff. Like, look at the penguins. Look at the penguins. They're very cute. [00:43:16] Speaker A: Now, how much of that is kind of speech difficulties and how much has affected Internet? Oh, these were developed stunted? [00:43:27] Speaker B: Well, yeah, but this sounded like very small children. Like, you know, like, their parents just put the VR on them and were like, why don't you watch the David Attenborough thing? You know? Yeah, these were. They sounded extremely young. And so it was like, this very, like. Yeah. This mixed feelings about it, of it being like, you know, oh, they're so cute. And also, why can I come in here with these children? This feels like this shouldn't be allowed and there should be, like, a separate space for them. [00:43:59] Speaker A: Let me find out. [00:43:59] Speaker B: But I guess that's on their parents. [00:44:01] Speaker A: I'm gonna put that on my little joag bits notepad here. [00:44:08] Speaker B: Okay. [00:44:09] Speaker A: Cyber fucking noncery. Let's see if that's. [00:44:12] Speaker B: Mmm. [00:44:12] Speaker A: Is that anything? I don't know. [00:44:14] Speaker B: Is that anything? I'm sure it is, yeah. I mean, well, that's what, obviously, like, I don't have kids, so it's not like, a thing that, like, comes into my, like, zone too often. But I know that, like, people who do have kids, like, you know, they've had to, like, retool how, like, Minecraft works and shit like that, because adults were coming in there and being, like, super inappropriate. [00:44:36] Speaker A: Yeah. So just days after getting the quest three, I kind of let Owen just use it with free reign. And that's not a mistake I'll be using again, you know? [00:44:47] Speaker B: Oh, really? [00:44:48] Speaker A: Oh, holy shit. He downloaded a game called Ape Tag or something similar where you're a fucking ape and you've got a play tag with other apes, you know, I mean. Great. [00:44:57] Speaker B: Sure, yeah. [00:44:58] Speaker A: Like, within 30 seconds of him starting a game, just. The room just rang out with just casual fucking racist abuse. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just immediately. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Take that the fuck off. Um. [00:45:13] Speaker B: Yikes. [00:45:14] Speaker A: Just instantly. I mean, but, you know, this. This speaks to online communication, right? Like, amongst young adults anyway, doesn't it? [00:45:22] Speaker B: It does. It's just like. Yeah. That's the thing about that then, is why are we allowed to share these spaces? [00:45:30] Speaker A: Yes. [00:45:30] Speaker B: With these kids. You know, like, it's like. Especially because they're learning it from adults. [00:45:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:37] Speaker B: When you get kids in there, you know, saying the n word and all kinds of stuff like that, it's like they didn't spontaneously generate that, like all these. [00:45:48] Speaker A: Conversely, I've played lots of table tennis against randos. [00:45:52] Speaker B: Mmm. [00:45:53] Speaker A: On the quest. And everyone has been nice as fuck. Just so nice. Just enjoying the experience. It took me ages to learn how to serve. Right. And I will forever remember a guy who I believe was German. Just nonverbally, because both of our mics were off. Just demonstrating to me, do it like this. Drop like that. Just do. Acting it out for me, for me to duplicate and copy. Just the loveliest little online experience. And I didn't get called a slur once. [00:46:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Nobody that I encountered yesterday was, like, mean or anything like that. Like the, like, closest thing to, like, any sort of harassment was like, one little kid who kept running up and yelling, blueberry. Blueberry, ma'am. Blueberry, or something like that. And I was like, okay, whatever. But I did. I wanted to ask because I was trying to do, like, the fishing game, and I wanted to ask someone, like, how did. Because I was not getting it. I was doing it wrong, and I wanted to ask someone, but everyone around me were kids, and I just felt weird about asking for help. It's like, please, an adult, talk someone in here. Be a grown up so that I can go and ask how to cast this fucking line. [00:47:04] Speaker A: Might. This might be an interesting experience. What I might do is walk around in horizon worlds or some online virtual shared space, but I might change my avatar to be, like, a woman. [00:47:17] Speaker B: Mmm. [00:47:18] Speaker A: You know what I'm saying? [00:47:19] Speaker B: See if you get interacted with differently. [00:47:22] Speaker A: See? Wait. And just as I'm saying that, it occurs to me that every woman in. In a virtual space is probably a bloke thinking something similar. [00:47:41] Speaker B: Yeah. How many female avatars are not women? [00:47:47] Speaker A: No. Do you know what? I'm gonna stay authentic. I'm gonna remain my authenticator. [00:47:50] Speaker B: Maybe, just maybe, just don't. [00:47:52] Speaker A: Yes. [00:47:53] Speaker B: So this week. This week for the cast, we decided. Listen, obviously last week, Mark, you were getting your sleep and all that kind of stuff in order. Just too exhausted. Mind gone to record an episode. I did a little piece about the doomsday clock, which got. [00:48:12] Speaker A: Which, if reactions are to be believed. [00:48:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:15] Speaker A: Was unexpectedly erotic. Like the doomsday clock, but sexy. [00:48:19] Speaker B: Unexpectedly sexy. Yeah, nice. Was aiming for relaxing, but, you know. [00:48:26] Speaker A: I will take that as a doomsday clockwise. Give me a little taste. [00:48:30] Speaker B: I don't know if I can. I need something to, like, say in the doomsday clock voices. Problem. [00:48:39] Speaker A: Just read the weather or something. Get. Get the fucking news over. [00:48:42] Speaker B: Just get the weather. Here, I have it right here. Here we go. Ready? [00:48:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:48:48] Speaker B: We talk a lot on this podcast about the end of the world as we know it and western society's pensions barreling toward it with its. [00:48:56] Speaker A: Whoa, whoa. [00:49:00] Speaker B: Hey, listen. Supposed to make your scalp tingle, make you want to fall asleep. That was what I was aiming for. But, hey, I will take it. I'm glad people enjoyed that little tidbit. You know, there's some. If you check out the Joag radio archive. What? [00:49:21] Speaker A: It's five to midnight on the doomsday. [00:49:23] Speaker B: Clock, and we don't got a lot of time left to live. [00:49:28] Speaker A: Didn't even sound like that. [00:49:30] Speaker B: Sounded very little like that, actually. Not my normal voice. No. I will say I feel like, you know, talking, like, kind of higher pitch and things like that is more what I sound like in. In real life, but when I'm on here, my straight man voice is a little deeper. But anyway, what was I saying about that? [00:49:55] Speaker A: Yes. [00:49:56] Speaker B: If you go to the Joaz radio archive on our. On the Ko fi. If you're a Ko fi subscriber and you like that kind of soft spoken kind of thing, there's a bunch of episodes of me reading various stories in a more soft spoken voice. So you can check those out there. If you subscribe to us. [00:50:13] Speaker A: I love that you've got, like, a toolkit of vocal Persona that you can draw from. Isn't that something? Never knew. [00:50:24] Speaker B: It's a lifetime of masking, is what it is. So, like learning to, you know, speak for whatever particular audience you're in at a given moment. That's what it. That's what it is. [00:50:36] Speaker A: I see. [00:50:40] Speaker B: All of which is to say. [00:50:41] Speaker A: Yes. All of which is to say, because I missed a week last week. What we have accumulated over the past two weeks is an absolute fuck ton of watches. We've watched a load of movies both separately and together, you know, a tv show or two. And were we to, you know, to go into each of these, like we'd enjoy doing before bro chicken topic, which we enjoy doing, we'd be here before fucking hours. So what we have here, friends, for you, for your delectation is a jack of all graves movie and media. Fucking mega sode. [00:51:13] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. [00:51:15] Speaker A: With some recs, with some. What's the opposite of a recommendation? Warnings. [00:51:21] Speaker B: Warnings. Something like that. And listen, if you're the kind of person who normally like skips the what we watched part because you're like, oh, I don't watch horror movies or things like that. You know, like, I don't care. Whatever. The thing about when we talk about these movies is like it's not simply we watched this, watch it or not, but usually it's the rabbit holes that are the point. And we have several movies and tv and whatnot this week to dive into that we have thoughts on that are much deeper than simply liked it, didn't like it, and have much more that we want to talk about with them. So maybe give it a whirl if you're normally like, eh, fuck movies, I don't want to hear about it. Yeah, you might, you might find interesting conversation here that you don't get past. [00:52:05] Speaker A: You really might. I mean there's, there were more than one absolute fucking gambles, risks that we took these last few weeks which really fucking paid off, which is, you know, what is Joe ag if not a journey of discovery? You know, that's what the journey is all about. [00:52:21] Speaker B: That is very true. So where do you, where do you want to start? [00:52:23] Speaker A: Mark Lewis, all that said, we're going to start with a movie called Uncle Peck ahead. [00:52:30] Speaker B: That's where you want to start, huh? [00:52:32] Speaker A: Well, we kind of have to, don't we? Okay. Fuck. I don't know where to begin here, really. [00:52:40] Speaker B: I mean there, this was a weird pick. I mean this is, you know, we, we go back and forth which when we watch movies together, one of us picks the next one. [00:52:49] Speaker A: We kind of try to take it in turns, don't we? [00:52:51] Speaker B: Right, exactly. Which is partly, you know, to anticipate movies we think the other would like, partly to pick something we're in the mood for and partly to spread blame if we pick shitty movies because we both do it sometimes. Yes. They can't all be bangers. They can't all be bangers. And Uncle Peckerhead was my pick because Letterboxd loves this movie. Everyone I know who has seen it loved it. High ratings got, you know, it's over a three. Like it's got a very high rating on Letterboxd. And so I really had this like this can't fail mindset about it that I think both of us were just kind of baffled. [00:53:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:38] Speaker B: When we actually watched it. Do you want to describe it? [00:53:43] Speaker A: A disconnect in our opinion versus the public opinion. Fine. You know, be a boring. [00:53:48] Speaker B: Right. Like, that's, you know. Right. I mean, this is a thing about our, what we watch section. And what will certainly happen today, for sure, is we bicker with each other over these movies all the time. So certainly, if we don't agree with what everyone says, that's it is what it is. [00:54:05] Speaker A: But what we have in Uncle Peck ahead is a horror movie. An affectation towards, you know, seventies, eighties, grindhousey, kind of gory aesthetic. A struggling small town punk band, bereft of transport and without an audience and without any direction, are finally fucking embarking on a tour of a couple of states. And they enlist the help of a fucking random stranger, an old guy, the titular uncle Packerhead, who drives them around in their van to each venue. Um, and as they quickly ascertain, the guy, past a certain time of night, turns into a fucking vampire fucking kind of flesh eating, demonic kind of dude. And all manner of hijinks ensue. [00:54:58] Speaker B: It's really just kind of the one manner of hijinks, to be honest. [00:55:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Eating. Eating people. He should eat. [00:55:03] Speaker B: Eating people. [00:55:04] Speaker A: Yes. [00:55:05] Speaker B: That he probably. Yeah, probably shouldn't. [00:55:09] Speaker A: No. [00:55:09] Speaker B: And it. Yeah, go ahead. [00:55:12] Speaker A: Every one of the one and a half stars. Every bit of the one and a half stars I wore when I got pegged ahead was for two factors. Firstly, the band are actually quite good. [00:55:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I quite enjoyed them. I would have seen them in high school for sure. [00:55:26] Speaker A: 100%. The music in the film is actually right up my street. It's kind of aggro, you know, rancid y kind of punk, which I love. [00:55:36] Speaker B: And it feels real, which I always appreciate in a movie. Like, it doesn't feel like they made it for the movie. [00:55:41] Speaker A: Yes. These are obviously passionate youngsters. Our protagonist, our main character, is really super likable. I said this to you earlier on, didn't I? Really, really likeable. And it got half a star for being filmed in your neck of the woods in your hometown. [00:55:57] Speaker B: Yeah, it was so wild. It was like the first scene, she's like, standing in a bakery, and she looks out the window, and I was like, now, hold on a minute. I've been there. And, like, the venue that is sort of, they want to get to this venue, and at the end of it, like, one of their favorite bands is playing there and they want to play with this band. So that's at the center of it. And for some reason, the name is, like, escaping me right now, because normally I absolutely know what it is. But I went there. [00:56:24] Speaker A: The something basement or something like that. [00:56:28] Speaker B: I don't know why. [00:56:29] Speaker A: House of something, right? [00:56:30] Speaker B: Oh, House of Independence. House of Independence in Asbury Park. I went and saw further seams. Forever. There's in December, November somewhere in there, and then, like, two weeks later, we had one of the big tropical storms come through, and it flooded and closed forever. [00:56:49] Speaker A: It is such a thrill, isn't it, seeing places you've been? [00:56:52] Speaker B: I've seen this time before. [00:56:53] Speaker A: It's great. [00:56:54] Speaker B: It's so wild for it to be like, oh, they're playing at an actual venue. And I was there recently. That's. That's bananas. I will say the lady there was kind of an asshole about the accessible seats or whatever, so, you know, shame. I don't feel bad for her about the place closing down, but otherwise, it is a bummer to lose a venue like that. [00:57:20] Speaker A: But, of course, giving a film one and a half stars means there's three and a half stars. You aren't giving it right. You know, and it skimps on the gore. Not gory enough for Mark. Sorry. [00:57:32] Speaker B: It does have some good gore moments, but they are. [00:57:36] Speaker A: It takes way too long. Loaded towards the end of the movie. It isn't. I didn't think it was particularly funny. It could have done. Just edit your films, please. [00:57:47] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [00:57:48] Speaker A: You know? [00:57:48] Speaker B: Yeah. The editing was one of the things that really got me, because there's, like, basically in between every line of dialogue. You could edit out two to 3 seconds. [00:57:59] Speaker A: Yes. Jokes are given too long to breathe. [00:58:02] Speaker B: Too long to sit. Yes. [00:58:04] Speaker A: When you know, it's very broad kind of humor. Fucking dick jokes all over the place. But. And you don't really need to let a dick joke. [00:58:13] Speaker B: No. [00:58:14] Speaker A: Marinade with the audience. [00:58:16] Speaker B: Got it. [00:58:17] Speaker A: Hmm. Give that a little bit of cerebral space to really fully percolate. No, it doesn't need that. It's very broad humor. [00:58:24] Speaker B: That's why I told you that I was like this. Like, the story itself doesn't have enough going for it, but I was like, I feel like I could at least fix it, but editing and making this quicker would make it at least more entertaining. [00:58:37] Speaker A: Uncle pack ahead. Fan edit. [00:58:40] Speaker B: He what? Oh, a fan edit. Yes. [00:58:45] Speaker A: But. [00:58:46] Speaker B: But. [00:58:46] Speaker A: But, you know, in keeping with my early resolution to not be a dick about films, this scream passion project, everybody involved obviously believed, like, fucking this movie. [00:58:59] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [00:58:59] Speaker A: You know? [00:59:00] Speaker B: Yeah. And, yeah, it's one of those ones that like, you can't you root for it even if you don't. [00:59:05] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes, yes. And just by, you know, by that virtue, it's better than any movie I've ever made, you know? [00:59:11] Speaker B: So, yeah, there you go. Yeah. So, yeah, Uncle Peckerhead is. It was a bit of a dud for us. [00:59:18] Speaker A: Uncle Peg ahead one and a half stars right now, then sometimes the risks pay off. Right. And we're now going to talk about the movie that you will. You'll always scroll past on shudder. It's never going to be your first choice. You're never going to seek this film out. You're going to look at the title card of this movie on streaming and go, fuck me, this looks dire. It looks like shelf. Shelf filler. You know what I mean? It looks like, you know, streaming kind of streaming deal kind of package fodder. And you'll never purposefully seek out man fish, right? [01:00:00] Speaker B: Yep. [01:00:01] Speaker A: But man fish is the movie that you're gonna take a risk on. [01:00:04] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [01:00:05] Speaker A: It's the movie that you're gonna, with a heavy heart, hit play and expect little. And what you're gonna get with man fish is you're gonna get the best kind of horror movie. Surprise. [01:00:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:21] Speaker A: Because you're gonna find a funny, warm hearted, tightly written and performed character piece. [01:00:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:36] Speaker A: That far, far, far belies the meager means with which it was made. [01:00:44] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. [01:00:46] Speaker A: Does that sound about right to you? [01:00:48] Speaker B: Mm hmm. Yeah, it does so much with so little in this. I think at one point you, you joked about like, you know, the, the settings, it's like mates, house mates brother's. [01:00:58] Speaker A: House, filmed in a mate's house, filmed using the mates, you know, your fucking friends of the, you know, the filmmakers spend 45 quid on a really fucking amazing kind of lo fi man fish costume, right. And shoot it in and around your fucking home area. This has no bells and whistles at all. It is the most spit and sawdust, honest fucking salt of the earth kind of filmmaking you could wish. But there's nothing ersat about it. There's nothing pretentious about it. It's a film that knows exactly what it is and who it's for. But again, just, it's, it's, it has this real fucking authentic. It's a good film for good people and it feels like it was made by good people for good reasons. [01:01:52] Speaker B: Right. It has a surprising amount of heart for it. That's. And, you know, you can't escape the comparison to shape of water. It's basically kind of a reverse shape of water situation where a man develops a relationship with a man fish. [01:02:07] Speaker A: With a man fish. Yes. [01:02:08] Speaker B: Yes. [01:02:09] Speaker A: It's a british shape of water, isn't it? It's the shape of water. [01:02:16] Speaker B: And. Yeah, it's somehow it's played. The characters play it very straight, you know, and everyone is. They are those people, you know? Like, that's the thing, is, it's like it doesn't feel. These characters aren't aware the situation is funny. [01:02:34] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Silly material played 100% down the line. [01:02:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:02:39] Speaker A: And it could have so easily mocked itself, you know, and tried to overcompensate for the lack of budget and lack of just anything, really, other than what's in camera. Because there's nothing, you know, there's nothing. I didn't. There's no, like, digital effects to speak of in the film. You know, a little bit of splatter here and there. But everything is. Is in camera. Everything is on the fucking screen. No trickery. And. And what you see is. Is what was there. No fucking budget or embellishment. Barely any music, all shot in your local pub, somebody's living room, the beach. But above and beyond all that, this. This. Like I said, the heart of this film is a mile wide. And it's such a lovely surprise. [01:03:26] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. You would scroll past it, but don't watch man fish on shudder. You've already got the app. Go ahead and give it a go. And I think you're gonna be charmed by it because charming, I think, is exactly. [01:03:39] Speaker A: That's exactly what it is. [01:03:40] Speaker B: Charming little horror movie. [01:03:42] Speaker A: But whatever you do, right, do me a favor and don't steal man fish. [01:03:46] Speaker B: Yeah, you know what? Like, seriously, don't. Don't steal it. This is a thing, a labor of love that people made. And this is worth you if you. I mean, it's on shutter, and if you gotta rent it, rent it, but don't steal this. [01:03:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:04:00] Speaker B: It's for the little guy. [01:04:01] Speaker A: Do the right thing for the. For the man fish. And you won't. You won't. Look, I'm not gonna say. I'll refund you the rental myself if you don't like it. I'm not gonna say that because that would be ridiculous. But I don't think. Crazy. It's worth, you know, fucking 299 of anyone's money. Great movie. [01:04:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Much like, by the way, all you need is death, I've been informed, is coming to apple or something. [01:04:26] Speaker A: It is Apple tv if it's not there already. [01:04:28] Speaker B: Yeah, it might already be there. In fact, this month has flown by, but also a shout out. Oh, now I can't even remember who it was. Someone watched it in the dead. Lovely group. I can't think of who it was who had heard me talk about it on this last week and really dug it. So check out all you need is death. And make sure you pay for that as well, because. Totally worth it. I know your brother also pre ordered it. He was like, even if I don't like it, pay for the big swing. Like I said, someone made this out of passion with their own money. It's worth you and your. [01:05:03] Speaker A: You gotta support the little guys, man. You gotta do it. Cause that's how they become the big guys. That's how you get the fucking stuff you want in the multiplexers of the future, isn't it? I guess. [01:05:12] Speaker B: Precisely. What else? [01:05:16] Speaker A: Thank you. Firstly, from me to you, from my heart and my soul to yours, for badgering me to watch R R for as long as you did. And for enthusiasm about that movie as much as you did. Because fuck me, man. [01:05:29] Speaker B: Yeah. I want to hear all about your experience here at RRr. One of my. At this point, I have. It's one of my favorite movies. It's a three hour movie that I have watched five times. [01:05:39] Speaker A: It's more than. I think it's a little bit more than 3 hours. I think it's like 310. [01:05:42] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a little. Yeah, a little over 3 hours. So I have spent over 15 hours of my life watching Rrr. [01:05:50] Speaker A: But I. Having seen it, all I can say is time well spent. [01:05:54] Speaker B: Right. [01:05:55] Speaker A: You know, talk about. I don't know where to begin. I don't know where to begin. Right. Firstly, the. It's got. It feels like something like a mythic tale brought to life. And maybe it is. Who knows? Maybe the origins of the tale lie in scripture somewhere. I don't know. [01:06:18] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think there are, like, certain things that are within, like, you know, hindu culture and things like that. But I don't think it's like a specific story. [01:06:27] Speaker A: I could be wrong, but it has that size and scale, not just of setting and, you know, physicality, but of emotion and feeling. This. This is a film that goes all fucking in. It does nothing by halves. Everything is massive. [01:06:41] Speaker B: Yes. [01:06:43] Speaker A: It's the tale of a revolutionary and a policeman who form an unlikely friendship in kind of pre partition India. [01:06:52] Speaker B: I want to say something like that. Yeah. [01:06:55] Speaker A: Yeah. It's upfront, right at the beginning of the film. The time period, the people, the events, the geography is entirely fictional, and meant to represent nothing factual at all. And thank fuck they said that. Because these two guys, at the very peak of fucking physical excellence, fighting bears and tigers and huge feats of, you know, incredible daring do and action. It's an action film that just doesn't know where the fucking boundaries are. It just. [01:07:34] Speaker B: Right. [01:07:35] Speaker A: It has no fucking. Not a wit of sense of restraint at all. And I guess that that's, you know, part and parcel of the genre, you know? Absolutely. [01:07:51] Speaker B: Yes. [01:07:52] Speaker A: Um, but this is just capital e epic. You know, dance breaks, musical numbers, just the themes, the visuals, the graphics, just symbolism and action and fucking animals and settings and wildlife and love and fucking battles and fucking conflict for a film that's longer than doom two. Right. It pays. It pays. Not a tiny. The tiniest lip service to. It has no. It has no. Maybe it does. Maybe it does have self control in ways that I'm not seeing it. It's filmmaking completely off the fucking leash. [01:08:35] Speaker B: Yes. [01:08:36] Speaker A: Totally is my, you know, it is the vibe that leaves you with it is filmmaking completely devoid of any boundaries or barriers. It just. It goes. It turns itself the fuck up from the opening right from the start up to eleven. And it never comes down. It doesn't for a fucking second. No, it doesn't come down. It is 3 hours of relentless input, but ramping up the kind of emotional feedback, the, you know, the kind of. It rewards your investment with ever more escalating, you know, payoffs. [01:09:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:09:15] Speaker A: Don't. You know, if you've not. If you've seen, aha. I dare say you know what I'm talking about. But if you've yet to see it, don't. Don't ask yourself, oh, fuck me. How are they gonna top that? How are they gonna fucking beat that? Because they do. [01:09:27] Speaker B: They do somehow. Yeah. [01:09:31] Speaker A: But again, it's so heavily stylized and so of a particular kind of art style that, you know, maybe in the. In the first 1015 minutes, you're questioning your choices. I certainly was at the, you know, during the opening, I was like, what the fuck? I can't do 3 hours of this. And then five minutes later, it was 3 hours later and I was. [01:09:53] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. [01:09:55] Speaker A: And I was not the same. Yeah. The little bangra break in the middle. The fucking dance number in the middle. It's. It's. If Baz Luhrmann and perhaps John Woo. [01:10:10] Speaker B: Right. [01:10:11] Speaker A: Decided to make a movie that I enjoyed, that's what you'd go with? [01:10:16] Speaker B: That's a very good way of putting it. For sure. I did wonder, obviously, I know your political stands and the way you look at the world and things like that. But RR did drum up controversy, obviously, amongst the more sensitive of the British because the British are categorically the bad guys in this. Like, yes. You know, this is a complete condemnation of british colonialism and the things that were carried out during that time. So I was just curious, like, watching it, you know, as a Brit, what it's like when you're like, yeah, we just. We fucking sucked. We did this to people or whatever. Like, does that occur to you while you're watching it or. [01:11:04] Speaker A: Well, no, it doesn't because it clearly is devoid of all real kind of time and space. [01:11:11] Speaker B: Sure, but it's talking. I mean, it is real things in terms of, like, the relationship between the colonizer and the colonized in India at the time, completely. [01:11:22] Speaker A: But, I mean, I couldn't view it through any kind of historical lens. [01:11:28] Speaker B: Oh, interesting. [01:11:31] Speaker A: Simply because, you know, laws of physics don't apply. Laws of space don't apply in that film. You know, it doesn't have a single shred of footing in anything like what you and I would recognize as the real world, you know? [01:11:46] Speaker B: See, that's an interesting perspective, though, because I think politically it absolutely does. Like, you know, in terms of how it. Yeah. Portrays, like. Like you said, like, it's nothing in there. Like, the gravity of the world is not the same as ours is. You know, like, all of that stuff, the action and, you know, breaking into a dance break in the middle of things and all that stuff is totally not part of our world. But in terms of, like, actual exhilarating dance break. Yeah, it is, isn't it? Why am I so, like, I'm really, like, involved and invested in the outcome. [01:12:20] Speaker A: Of this dance break big time? No, I mean, obviously, in terms of. [01:12:22] Speaker B: Like, the actual, like, you know, it is a story that they made. And, like, you get, like, you know, the people at the end and, like, the credits, when they do that last number are, like, heroes of their. [01:12:32] Speaker A: That puts it right into context. Yeah, you're right. [01:12:35] Speaker B: Yeah. So, like, you know, I think that part, I think, is really moving to me, like, throughout the movie. Like, this is a sort of revenge fantasy about british colonialism. You know, like, ultimately, while there's, like, these. This very specific story about a kidnapped girl and, you know, the sort of tribe or whatever that that rom comes from, like, at the core of it, it's really, like, you know, what if we were able to, like, defy everything? You know, what animals were on our side? What if we could have trained all these kinds of things to, like, overthrow the British like this, you know? And I think that's one of the things that's so. Yeah. That I find really moving about RR is just like watching someone imagine overthrowing colonialism, being bigger than the empire. [01:13:31] Speaker A: Beautifully put. That is beautifully put. It's almost like a fable that you would tell a child, a fantasy version of how a superhero could make things right. [01:13:44] Speaker B: Yes, totally. [01:13:46] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Very nice. Very nice angle, Corrigan. Very perceptive, Corrigan. Very, very perceptive. [01:13:56] Speaker B: Not just a hat rack, Lewis. Not just a hat rack. [01:14:00] Speaker A: Oh, it's in psycho quote, isn't it? I got it wrong. [01:14:05] Speaker B: What else? [01:14:06] Speaker A: What else? Oh, so much else. Now, let's. All right, all right, all right. So let's go beyond reanimator. This was my pick. [01:14:16] Speaker B: This was. Yes. [01:14:19] Speaker A: I'll do the last bit first. Right. It's such a shame to me, such a source of sadness to me, that the reanimated property and the character of Herbert west, specifically as played by Geoffrey Combs, is left to languish and is doing nothing right now, apparently. [01:14:48] Speaker B: Like, there are more movies, but not with him. Like, there's like. I think the most recent one is like, yeah, I looked this up afterwards. Like, the most recent ones, like 2018 or something like that. There are reanimator movies, but they are just not, you know, not with him in them. [01:15:08] Speaker A: Now, I'm gonna need to show your work, to see your work here, because I don't know that. And I feel that's something I would know this. [01:15:19] Speaker B: I was looking this up after we watched it the other day. Hmm. Interesting. Maybe I'm wrong, but I could have sworn there are. Let's see, right around. No, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it was just something else that was in the world I saw. There were a couple other movies that I felt at least took place in the world, but I. [01:15:46] Speaker A: There seems to be. Made it up a strange kind of, you know, like how there are, like 1500 kind of. Of the living dead movies, right? [01:15:56] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Or Amityville. [01:16:00] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly, exactly. There seems to be a branch off movie. [01:16:04] Speaker B: Right? Like, that's what I was thinking. Like, they're not. Yeah, they're not the main reanimator. When I googled the other day, I was like, oh, there's, like, other reanimator movies, but they're not connected to these. [01:16:16] Speaker A: Interesting. But my point being that the character of Herbert west, as played by Jeffrey Combs, is so beloved to me. [01:16:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:16:25] Speaker A: And just like. Just like we've spoken about before, with all the various iterations of Texas Chainsaw, right? Different families, different timelines, different characters, different continuity, but all imbued with that flavor of Texas, that relentless, surprising, you know, smelly kind of vibe that Texas Chainsaw has at its best. And the best movies encapsulate that vibe, even though the fucking set and setting are totally different to one another. [01:16:55] Speaker B: Exactly. [01:16:56] Speaker A: The three reanimated movies all have that same flavor of chaos. [01:17:01] Speaker B: Fourth one is Herbert West Reanimator 2017. And again, it looks like it's like a low budget offshoot thing and has nothing to do with these other ones. But anyways, go on. Yes, agreed. Absolutely. [01:17:15] Speaker A: That, you know, they all have the same sense of humor, they all have the same gore, and they all have this point midway through where all fucking hell breaks loose and, you know, you've got gore comedy almost. [01:17:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:17:33] Speaker A: You know, where the human body is fucking defiled and stripped of its parts and made slapstick through gore and dismemberment and medical kind of, you know, fuckery. And I love that. I love the format. I really enjoy the format. And I, as I said to you at the time when we were watching beyond Reanimator, Herbert west is one of cinema's, one of horror cinema's great autistics, isn't he? [01:18:03] Speaker B: I know I said to you, I was like, I think you like me because I have some Herbert Westisms. [01:18:08] Speaker A: Yes. Just how amidst all of the fucking gore and the mayhem and the world sliding to hell around him, he is pragmatic and cold. [01:18:18] Speaker B: And emotionally, he doesn't understand why everyone else is being so weird about shit. [01:18:22] Speaker A: No, because it's all for science, isn't it? To Herbert west that, you know, every family ruined, every. Every fucking human subject experimented on and brought back from beyond. It's all, as far as Herbert is concerned, all in the name of science. And he just can't seem to work out why things done. It just don't seem to be going right. If everybody would do their part and just pull together and pass him his goddamn serum, maybe this time it'll work and it never quite does. And I just. I adore that with Herbert Wessef. Fucking love it. However, unfortunately, what is a part of the reanimator mix is the reliance on kind of sexual shock value. [01:19:09] Speaker B: Yeah. Sexual violence. [01:19:10] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It seems to be part of the objectification of women. Definitely. And look, hey, it was the eighties. There's always titty in eighties horror movies. Always, always. [01:19:21] Speaker B: Right? Yeah, that's a given, obviously. But, yeah, it's more the, like, the ever present sexual assault becoming a huge part of reanimator movies where I'm like this, you know, this didn't need that. This is what, 1998 or something? Like, no, it's like early. 20 01 20 01 20 02 yeah, like 2001. It has the now misses Hemsworth when she had her original teeth. I love it. This is like, I am so obsessed with this. Watching movies, like, early movies of an actor, pre veneers, like, before they, yeah, before they got the veneers. And it's like she's got these cute little chiclet teeth or whatever in there. But, yeah, it's like, there's so much of this that is, like, largely about, like, sexual harassment, sexual assault of her. [01:20:07] Speaker A: And, like. [01:20:09] Speaker B: Power dynamics, all this kind of stuff that it's just kind of like, it's not funny. It isn't, it's not necessary at all. And it just feels like, is Brian Yezner then? [01:20:20] Speaker A: Is it him? [01:20:22] Speaker B: Maybe. I don't feel like all of his movies are like this, but certainly, I don't know, for whatever reason, I know. [01:20:29] Speaker A: He'S directed on this important. He certainly didn't direct the first one, but wrote or co wrote it. [01:20:34] Speaker B: Mm hmm. Yeah. [01:20:37] Speaker A: Is it him? Is he the factor? Is he. [01:20:39] Speaker B: Maybe he is. I don't know. I mean, I like a lot of his stuff, so I don't. [01:20:44] Speaker A: He made return of the living dead three with Mindy Clark, all kind of goth and fetishized. [01:20:50] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good point. Okay. Yeah, maybe it's him. Maybe this is, like, a thing he's into. And that's, like, my problem with these things too. Right? Like, you know how I was talking about that a couple weeks ago with some other, oh, when I was saying, what's, what I liked about monkey man is his restraint. Right. When it comes to how he portrays, like, sexual violence or power dynamics and things like that. And it's like, really, this is the worst of what I'm talking about, is when sexual assault is played to make you horny. That is the, when we watch in the original reanimator Barbara Crampton extended scene of sexual assault, it's played to be sexy. You're not playing it to be like, wow, I really understand the horrors of. [01:21:37] Speaker A: Sexuality, power, fantasy, isn't it? [01:21:39] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. And so, yeah, this one falls into that as well. And it's like, otherwise, this is very fun movie that's like, yeah, you won't. [01:21:48] Speaker A: See too many other movies with a mid credits scene of a rat, a rat fighting a dismembered and reanimated human penis. [01:22:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:22:01] Speaker A: In an event in a prison. [01:22:03] Speaker B: Definitely the first time I've seen that. [01:22:04] Speaker A: You won't get that anywhere in many other places in many other movies. [01:22:08] Speaker B: Also, I love the irish lead who's supposed to be american. Just his accent fighting for its life, for the whole movie. I mean, same with Elsa Pataky. She's actually got, like, a very thick accent in real life, but she manages to pull it off pretty well in this. But, yeah, he is. Oh, boy. The way that it breaks throughout, it just adds another layer of absurdity to this entire movie. Yeah, it's. Aside from the sexual assault, it's everything you love about. [01:22:39] Speaker A: Yeah, it's great. It's a full blooded, canon reanimated movie. Were I to bring it back, yes. Just amp all that shit up. Keep the practical effects, ditch the sexual assault. [01:22:52] Speaker B: I think I said to you, the next reanimator movie, there should be someone who begins to make some sort of sexually harassing quip and then just gets decapitated immediately, and that's the end. [01:23:05] Speaker A: I love that. [01:23:06] Speaker B: I love that we never hear about it again and we move on. [01:23:10] Speaker A: I know I've spoken, like some years back on the cast about the four three animated. That never was. Do you remember me talking about that? It had a long period. It had a long period being shopped around studios and going through various script rewrites, and it never quite made it in front of the cameras. The pitch was house of reanimator, which is Herbert west as a staffer in the White House. [01:23:35] Speaker B: How would this happen? [01:23:37] Speaker A: Fuck knows. But, you know, the third one ends with him out there with his little black bag, you know what I mean? With his glowing syringe. Just out there at large. So it's. It's. It's there, man. It's there to be picked up. Will somebody. Won't somebody please give us reanimated four while Jeffrey comes? [01:23:55] Speaker B: Yeah, right. Like, before he retires or, like, whatever. Let's just. Let's lock one more of those in. I know he'd be into it. I mean, he's played so many other, like, versions of the same thing, like, he clearly loves, like the, like, Lovecraft cinematic universe or whatever. So I think he'd be back in. In an instant. [01:24:16] Speaker A: We can dream. We can dream. Like I said to you at the time, knowing my luck, elm street and reanimated will both come back within six months of one another. And it'll be one of those where I've got to ask the filmmakers to show me a rough cut. [01:24:32] Speaker B: All hooked. [01:24:33] Speaker A: Up to monitors, rips and whatnot. Yeah, yeah. Well, okay, so let's move on to immaculate. What a great time at the movies. What a fucking great laugh, wasn't it? Eh, Corrie Corrigan? [01:24:47] Speaker B: I don't understand how you. Well, okay, that's not entirely true. I I hated it. And I will go into that. I'm like, I don't understand how you liked it. It is. It's every nun movie. There's nothing unique about this movie at all except the last ten minutes of this movie. So if you like a nun movie, which I'm not really into the genre, this is a perfectly serviceable nun movie. [01:25:17] Speaker A: See, you say that when I think Nuncore, I think, uh, ghost nuns. [01:25:25] Speaker B: Ghost nuns? [01:25:26] Speaker A: Yeah, ghost nuns. The conjuring the nun. [01:25:30] Speaker B: Oh, okay, sure. [01:25:32] Speaker A: Spooky nuns. [01:25:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, that's in like. Yeah, that's all in one sort of universe or whatever. Yeah, I mean, it's like, it's like a basic religious horror setup. Like anything that's in like, a convent or whatever, that's. It's just like middle of the road to me. [01:25:46] Speaker A: See? [01:25:47] Speaker B: Nothing. [01:25:47] Speaker A: What I saw here, what I saw in immaculate was a really kind of giallo Nuova. [01:25:57] Speaker B: You know, it wishes, but yeah, sure. [01:26:00] Speaker A: I saw a really fucking earnest stab at making a modern giallo. And I was here for it. I, you know, it had all of the fucking tropes, you know, a black gloved assailant. It had creep. [01:26:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. [01:26:15] Speaker A: I was into it. I was super. [01:26:16] Speaker B: See, this is exactly what I'm saying, though, is I'm like, it's not. It's not doing anything new. It's clearly trying to be something else, right. And my thing is like, with this movie. So it's sort of tied up also. Like. So, like, Sidney Sweeney, it's hard to sort of separate her from her movies, right? [01:26:36] Speaker A: Because she's talking about them all the. [01:26:38] Speaker B: Time and people are. There's so much discourse about it. And Sidney Sweeney, to me, feels like she is what she is. She's very young. She comes from an extremely conservative, white background, family of Trump supporters, all that kind of stuff. She's rich, grew up rich, all of that kind of stuff. So she has a very. That's her worldview, right? And so she is trying to sort of grow up and get out of that, right. And she has a very, like, young girl way of thinking about it, which is everybody's talking about my tits all the time. I'm taking it back by, you know, showing my tits all the time, or I am going to make a movie about autonomy. Bodily autonomy, right? I'm going to produce this movie that is about bodily autonomy. And it is a very surface level look at bodily autonomy. Right? [01:27:40] Speaker A: Listen, subtle. [01:27:40] Speaker B: It ain't right. And so what annoys me about this movie is that in trying to make this point, all it really does is sort of like her. You know, they're sitting around and it's like their nips at her all the time. Or like, I told you about that scene where it's like, for whatever reason, she's holding her boobs up to her face in the shower. No reason to do this, but to her, that is taking back the conversation about her sexuality. Right. It's very, like, it's the first thing you do when you're, like, 18 and you go to college and you're like, oh, like, how do I break out of this? Like, it's my roommate who, like, suddenly, after a conservative upbringing, started sleeping with a marine and we never saw her again. You know, like, this was empowerment when this was your life before. But the movie itself, itself isn't in any way empowering. Like, the nuns don't have personalities. They're stock characters, right? Like. Like you said, like a giallo, you know, here's stern nun, here's kinda crazy nun with personality or whatever. Like, by the time they start dying, my mom and I were like, is that the friend? Is that the. Like, we couldn't tell who anyone was. Cause we were like, they don't have personalities. There's nothing interesting. [01:28:54] Speaker A: They are all similarly dressed. I'll give you that. [01:28:56] Speaker B: They are all similarly dressed. I could probably tell them apart by their nipples if they had died with their tits out. But that aside, it's take back your body. If for whatever reason, it makes no sense in the movie, for a bunch of nuns in a convent to be so immodest. But if that's what you want to do, sure. But also, maybe your movie about nuns isn't just sexualizing. Nuns, like, often happens in an encore movie, but also gives them a personality. You know, makes these people that you care about, you know, like, give me. Give me more to these things than just, you know, they. They are a little more sexual or whatever than a normal nun. [01:29:44] Speaker A: So in trying to be charitable to a movie I enjoyed, sure. Is the whole point about that particular convent that the novices are all basically there as incubators? [01:29:59] Speaker B: Right? Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the thing, is they are to. Yeah, they are to the men in charge of the place, for sure. Why don't we at the view, as the viewers see them, as anything other than that? You know what I mean? [01:30:17] Speaker A: On that level, you kind of do. I mean, her roommate is the kind of feisty runaway nun. [01:30:22] Speaker B: Exactly what I'm saying. There are archetypes, right? There's always one. You know, there's always a Maria and there's always a stern nun. Every nun movie is going to have those two nuns in them without fail. You're gonna have the one who's a little wily and the one who was like, no, everything by the book. You know, like, there's stock characters in this. And so the whole movie, I was just like, there's, you know, some pretty visuals and things like that, but it's not saying anything. And it's mostly very boring until it gets to the end of it. [01:30:53] Speaker A: Oh, man. I don't know. I would gently push back on the fact that it isn't saying anything either. I mean, I think it's saying quite loudly and quite brashly and in a non too subtle way about, you know, religion as a means of control. There are loads. I was counting on my fingers. In fact, the number of times that religious artifacts. Who uses weapons. Somebody's bashed the fuck over the head with a cross. Somebody is branded with a cross. Somebody is strangled with a rosary. And, you know, there's a. [01:31:23] Speaker B: Not again. Every nun movie ever made. [01:31:26] Speaker A: This one more. So this one is happening. You know, it. Like I said, it isn't. It isn't at all. You don't have to look for the messages. You don't have to do much digging. [01:31:34] Speaker B: No, absolutely not. Yeah. And I think, like, I think it just needed to me to be more interesting than that, than to just, like, here are the, like, things that, like, we know every non movie is about the fact that the church is a controlling body, you know, and, like, wrestling with that and all of that kind of stuff. And so for me, I was like, yeah, no, I get it. Sure. Who are these people? You know? And, like. And it doesn't, again, like, I appreciate what Sidney Sweeney is trying to do. I do. I don't want to make it sound like I hate Sidney Sweeney, but I also don't think she's a very good actress and sounding like she's from Calabasas in 2024 in this movie, which I think it is modern, I don't know what year it's supposed to be, but, like, you know, she's not believable in this role either. And the fact that hits the fan, she immediately changes her entire personality to, like, now she's like a very sacrilegious person and all this kind of stuff. Like, I'm like, this is not. That's not an arc. [01:32:42] Speaker A: Yeah. She goes from, you know, wide eyed novice to final girl just in the blink of an eye. Yeah. [01:32:49] Speaker B: And like, most, you know, as a deconstructed person. [01:32:52] Speaker A: Yes. [01:32:53] Speaker B: Most people who deconstruct from religion, even if there's an inciting incident or something like that, you're gonna go through a phase of, you know, I still believe, but I think the truth is broken. [01:33:04] Speaker A: Yeah, sure. [01:33:04] Speaker B: And so for her to immediately, like, go, like, you know, just straight fuck, God by the end of this movie was like, yeah, because this isn't a real character. There's no depth to this at all. It's just a stock person to place this idea onto. [01:33:24] Speaker A: No points for the ending. [01:33:27] Speaker B: I will give points for the ending, for sure. It has balls. And we're obviously not going to give it away because people are going to watch immaculate. But it absolutely gets points for the end of it for the last ten minutes. Honestly, I appreciate the boldness of the last scene, and I think the last ten minutes of it is deeply fun. You're going to get your bloody exciting fun ness from it, for sure. [01:33:56] Speaker A: Yes. Oh, I love it when we. When we disagree. It's. It's. [01:34:00] Speaker B: Right. [01:34:00] Speaker A: Always very constructive. [01:34:03] Speaker B: Exactly. I mean, it always. This is the thing is it always just comes down to, like, our preferences in things and the way that we're thinking about it. Like, that's all. And, you know, it's always enjoyable. Not trying to change each other's minds. [01:34:16] Speaker A: No. I mean, speaking of always enjoyable, I mean, let's just breeze past. Death spa. [01:34:24] Speaker B: Oh, death spa. Yeah. This is another one that is, for whatever reason, a classic. And it did not hit at all. [01:34:33] Speaker A: Within the first 20 minutes. I if. If we weren't watching it together, I would have turned it off. It was a DNF for me. I would have walked. [01:34:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:34:41] Speaker A: From Death bar. Maybe I wasn't in the right frame of mind for something, you know, for that kind of vibe, but. [01:34:49] Speaker B: Yeah, well, it's a confusing vibe. It just feels like it's trying to do too many things. You know, I was here for, like, slaughter in a spa movie, and then it's like, got all kinds of weird, like, you know, police procedural. [01:35:04] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Computers bad. It tended to, like. [01:35:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:35:08] Speaker A: Dennis Nedry in Jurassic park. It was like, we're gonna hack the mainframe of the spa for a little bit. [01:35:15] Speaker B: Like, what? Why does this spa have a main. What's going on? It was a very. Yeah. And it just. It. To me, it was very. It dragged a lot. And there was. [01:35:25] Speaker A: It was hard work. [01:35:26] Speaker B: The murders were not. As everyone talks about how, like, you know, insane the murders in it were. And I was like, did we get an edited copy or. Cause this was not. There was not a lot to these. [01:35:37] Speaker A: Murders, aside from a few much here and there to write home about there at all. You can do a lot better. Watch fucking spring break, aka the moodulator, if that's a vibe you want. [01:35:46] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. [01:35:47] Speaker A: Here. There are other movies, recent movies in the joag journey, that do it way, way, way better. Death Spar is a fucking dud. And it. It angered me. It bored me how fucking. How badly I wanted it to end and how little I enjoyed it. It got one and a half stars, same as Uncle Peg ahead. Weirdly, I might have to revise that. [01:36:05] Speaker B: Different reasons. [01:36:06] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I think the entire one and a half stars was due to the death with the fish. A guy get eiled to death. [01:36:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, there's, like, one very silly scene that did a lot for me there. That was a standout. And other than that, yeah, other than. [01:36:22] Speaker A: That, nothing going on. A wonderful parenting moment where, while Laura was out the other night, the kids and I watched Beetlejuice landed big time. Just such a weird, strange, weird film that you can't. You know, you can't not love it. And it's paced differently. Right. I was. I was caught by just how, you know, it's. It's a film that takes its time because you think of Beetlejuice and you think sandworms and stop motion and fucking Michael Keaton. But it takes its time. It builds up both halves. It builds up like Baldwin and Gina Davis, Bob and fucking Adam. Builds them up, builds up the deets. How weird and dysfunctional they are. It builds up when on a rider, it's really fucking more character driven than you might remember. Beetlejuice, right? Yeah, totally. And when the wheels come off and it goes proper fucking nuts, it earns. It really earns that kind of what the fuck am I watching? Kind of factor. And the boys. [01:37:19] Speaker B: Really. [01:37:21] Speaker A: So lovely, lovely parenting moment. Lovely parenting moment. And, of course, like we mentioned earlier on in VR, Evil Dead 2013 continues to be a five star experience. Doesn't put a foot wrong, you know, easily, easily just prime s tier. Evil dead. [01:37:41] Speaker B: Yeah. As someone commented, when I posted it on, you know, posted a screenshot for on blue sky. [01:37:48] Speaker A: I read that thread. Beautiful. [01:37:50] Speaker B: Yeah. And the thing is, like, evil Dead is just. It's such a solid franchise. There really isn't a dud amongst them. You know, they're all. They're all a very good time in their own different ways. And certainly this is the most. Just, like, unrelentingly brutal of them, you know, in that very visceral and almost, like, real is the wrong word. But, like, you know what I mean? Where it's like, this is, if you were in this situation, what is. [01:38:20] Speaker A: It's so unflinching depicts and it's very intimate with how it shows the damage to bodies, damage to human people, but not in a cartoonish way. You know, it seems. It seems quite. Quite a medically accurate goal. [01:38:36] Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah. [01:38:37] Speaker A: And, yeah, it's all the better for it. It's. And I still maintain to this day that there's comedy in it. In just when you think. Just when you think you're gonna get a breather, the fucking. You get that air raid siren on the soundtrack and things go fucking super south and they carry on going. It's one of my all time favorite films. I love it so much. And great for the format. Great for a nice little VR kind of experience. [01:39:03] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. I watched a movie called hundreds of beavers, or I watched 40 minutes. [01:39:11] Speaker A: Too many. Too many beavers, for sure. [01:39:15] Speaker B: This was very much. Not for me, but I'm mentioning it only because I think there are people who will be very into this. In fact, I saw bookseller Ryan really liked this, like, five star loved this movie. And it's basically like a live action Looney Tunes movie. And it kind of combines, like, sort of art for the backgrounds and things like that with, like, a live action guy and, like, you know, people in, you know, beaver suits and things like that. And so it's, like, very slapsticky. No. If there's any dialogue, I did not get far enough into it for there to be dialogue. But it's literally like watching live action Looney Tunes. Now, I hated Looney Tunes growing up, so it is very much not my vibe. I just couldn't connect with this movie. We've talked before about sort of my inability to read, like, emotions from cartoons and things like that. And I find that kind of translated into even a sort of live action cartoon situation. [01:40:19] Speaker A: Interestingly, something that struck me about a was that it's anime, isn't it? The style of it is live action anime, for sure. [01:40:28] Speaker B: Sure. Yeah, definitely. But yeah, the hundreds of beavers didn't work for me. But I think there's probably a lot of people that it's absolutely gonna work for. I mean, it's got like a 4.4 or something like that on letterboxd. Like it's. People really love it. So it's on prime. If the idea of a live action Looney tunes, minimal, if any dialogue and things like that. Very slapstick, all of that stuff. Like a wily coyote sort of situation. The first, like 25, 30 minutes of it is literally a guy trying to, like, catch food and keep in getting thwarted by things. Like so many beavis, he. By too many beavers, for example, like, you know, trying to get eggs out of a bird's nest and, like getting thwarted by these spiky things. And then as soon as he manages to get them, you know, the bird comes down and like, pecks on his head and he throws it, you know, into the fire. [01:41:19] Speaker A: Well, with no dialogue or no dialogue. [01:41:21] Speaker B: Or anything, it's all just. Yeah, physical stuff. Just like watching Wile E. Coyote trying to catch the Roadrunner. [01:41:29] Speaker A: Sounds terrible. [01:41:31] Speaker B: Yeah, for me, didn't like it. But again, I think a lot of people would get a lot of mileage out of this movie. So hundreds of beavers, you know, if that sounds good to you, check it out. If that sounds miserable like it does to me and mark, avoid it. No, not, don't take the rating on the letterboxd if it's not for you. I watched with the screamin chat, Joe Bob did the autopsy of Jane Doe, which is one of those movies. I thought I had actually gotten to it, but I don't think I had, but, like, one that, like, for years I was like, I gotta watch that. Everybody always talks about this movie. [01:42:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I remember really liking it. [01:42:06] Speaker B: Yeah, it's really good. I mean, you've got Brian Cox and Emile Hirsch as your, your main character is a father son coroner duo who, a woman comes in to the morgue of unknown background and, you know, they start noticing little weird things about her. Like, you know, she's missing half her tongue. [01:42:32] Speaker A: Yes. [01:42:32] Speaker B: And then, you know, she's got weird tattoos on the inside of her body and all kinds of stuff like that. And then shit goes really haywire. And it's such a cool little small movie. You know, one location for the vast majority of the film. I mean, it's all one location. They never leave the building or whatever, but it largely takes place in the one room. It's got this very claustrophobic vibe. [01:42:58] Speaker A: Seem to remember. Yeah. [01:42:58] Speaker B: Building. [01:42:59] Speaker A: Building really well. [01:43:00] Speaker B: Pacing. Yeah. Paced really, really well. Even with Joe Bob interrupting during the last drive in, which was cool. If you watch the shutter version, the last drive in version of it. He actually interviewed the producer and the screenwriters and stuff like that. You know, got some good insights about the making of this movie, which was difficult to get people to fund. They had a really hard time making it, which is wild because it has become like a horror classic since it came out. Yeah, absolutely. So there you go again. The kind of thing you want people to be making in Hollywood even though Hollywood doesn't want to make it. [01:43:38] Speaker A: Made by anyone of note. [01:43:40] Speaker B: No, not really. Yeah. I didn't recognize these guys. The director is from Norway or something like that. Yeah. But it's a cool movie. I recommend the autopsy of Jane Doe on Shudder, the regular version and the Joe Bob version. [01:44:02] Speaker A: Cool. [01:44:02] Speaker B: And I finally, finally, because our theater is still playing it nearly two months after its release went and saw love lies bleeding. [01:44:12] Speaker A: Oh, I've got that ready to go, actually. [01:44:14] Speaker B: I've got that locked up. When I went to see it, I was like, this is going to be on Plex tomorrow. [01:44:19] Speaker A: I just know it. [01:44:19] Speaker B: And sure enough, the next day I open up Plex and there's love lies bleeding. I'm glad I went and saw it. But, yeah, this is a story about, you know, roid rage, about, you know, two women in the eighties in that sort of gym rat culture who get caught up in things that are much bigger than them and sort of have to deal with the violence that they have wrought as a result of some terrible choices, including the use of steroids. And it's, you know, I thought it was. I think both the leads are phenomenal. It was a good, good story, good arc tense. Had me, like, you know, just like, very worried and stressed out the whole time. I will say, you know, it's 824. It has some surrealness in it that is going to either work for you or not because it comes out of fucking nowhere. And so for some, it's gonna be an instant turn off that it kind of leaves the boundaries of reality. I was like, okay, that's fine. It doesn't take away from what this movie has been overall that it does that. So I recommend love lies bleeding. I think it was a really good time. [01:45:46] Speaker A: Gonna be an excellent week. I read that godzilla minus one finally streams on the 1 May. [01:45:54] Speaker B: Okay. [01:45:56] Speaker A: So I think it's only streaming in Japan weirdly, or somewhere non domestic. [01:46:01] Speaker B: But you'll be able to get it. [01:46:03] Speaker A: Exactly it's going to be obtainable within the next couple of days, so praise God. That's excellent news. Yes. And what with the loveliest breathing as well, it's going to be a good week. [01:46:12] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. So there's only one more thing. [01:46:17] Speaker A: There is only one more thing about. [01:46:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:46:18] Speaker A: Yes. [01:46:19] Speaker B: Yes. The one we've been arguing about all week. [01:46:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Which is baby reindeer. [01:46:23] Speaker B: Baby reindeer. If you somehow haven't heard of baby reindeer. Well, you're pointing. What is this now? [01:46:32] Speaker A: We're recording a snack on Tuesday. [01:46:34] Speaker B: We are recording a snack on Tuesday. [01:46:37] Speaker A: We could do this then. [01:46:39] Speaker B: Oh, do you want to argue about baby reindeer as a snack? [01:46:43] Speaker A: There's a lot to say. [01:46:46] Speaker B: Okay. [01:46:47] Speaker A: There's a lot to say. And a large part of the ongoing and lively discussion that Corrie and I have had about baby reindeer centers around you. Look, the great thing about being human is the ability to have more than one thought at a time about. About a thing. [01:47:09] Speaker B: True. Yeah, absolutely. [01:47:11] Speaker A: And baby reindeer is. Gives rise to a plurality of thoughts in me. [01:47:17] Speaker B: Totally. Yeah. [01:47:19] Speaker A: And I wonder if we should just go in depth on it on Tuesday when we snack for an hour. [01:47:24] Speaker B: I feel great about that. So we want to give, like, a cursory talk about baby reindeer here. [01:47:30] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it's a headline grabbing Netflix drama, and it's rightly headline grabbing. The. Look, what I. What I will not for a moment take away from baby raindia is how brave on all levels. It is the fact that it got funded and commissioned and produced and is on, of all fucking places, the safest, most pedestrian fucking platform out there, Netflix. Dealing with. [01:48:00] Speaker B: Really? Yeah. They gave it the Netflix treatment, which I think is. Is fascinating to this, too. Right? So, like. Like I said, if you've never heard of baby Reindeer, the netflixification of this is it is a series about a man with a stalker. And that is, you know, that's the sensational kind of shit that you get on Netflix, right? Like, ooh, this is, you know, it's you in real life or whatever, right? This is based on the lead's actual life. This came from a one man show that he was doing in London before getting this funded to be made as a tv series. So it's, you know, ostensibly a true story about a man with a stalker. So I feel like that's how it slides into Netflix of all. [01:48:48] Speaker A: You know, I've listened to Richard Gad. I believe the dude's name is giving interviews. You know, the media show on radio four. He's been on breakfast tv. And the only. The only reveal in press is the fact that it's about a stalker. It's about a dude, an aspiring comedian who has a stalker, and that's the only thing they share. Right. But, you know, that is, that is almost a kind of a russian doll Trojan horse of a plot which hides something altogether bigger and more complicated. [01:49:28] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [01:49:30] Speaker A: And again, it's, it's very possible to have a few different viewpoints on a piece. [01:49:38] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. [01:49:39] Speaker A: Because I don't think, I can't have, I can't have watched the same show as everybody else. [01:49:47] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, this is the, and I think, you know, obviously we will talk about this or whatever. I mean, ultimately, I think, yeah, it comes down a lot to style and the kinds of shows that you like and things like that. That's like a minimizing of this. But, you know, on the basic level of trying to describe what didn't work and why you're so baffled by everyone else having seemingly watched something different than you did. But, like, my take on this, and I think I feel like you would agree even though you didn't like it, is that it's one that people should watch and make an opinion of. [01:50:29] Speaker A: I completely listen, no pushback on that at all because the fact that it's got just universal acclaim from everybody except me, I'm self aware enough. I'm self aware enough to at least entertain the notion that maybe I'm bringing something of to this myself. [01:50:51] Speaker B: Right. And even beyond that, like, you know, beyond, like, whether or not you liked it or like, you know, the, like, oh, I'm wrong and everybody else must be onto something or whatever. I think, like, just in terms of, like, this, just what it is is worth, like, engaging with one way or another, I think. [01:51:08] Speaker A: Yes. You know, listen, like I, like we said right at the start, it, you won't see too many other shows like it on the platform, right? [01:51:17] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Like, it's not, you know, there's things that we watch and it's like, you know, there's no reason for you to watch that. You know, watch Uncle Becker head or whatever. And it's like, I see no reason to tell you you should engage with Uncle Peckerhead completely where, like, you can say something like baby reindeer, you know, it's worth engaging with whether you come out of it being like, that was the greatest thing I ever watched, or. [01:51:41] Speaker A: Like that in many ways. In many ways very similar to man fish in that whatever your feelings are about it, in the final analysis, it is a piece of art that demands to be enjoyed. [01:51:55] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly that. And given Netflix is not known for its bold choices and things like that, it's kind of. It's that same thing that we keep coming back to of, like, you know, reward that they just did something different. [01:52:08] Speaker A: But the more we talk about it, the more we risk falling out, because I feel that Netflix made no bold choices at all outside of the content. I think, in form and execution, it is just typical Netflix fucking basic ass fear. The topics are massive, but the execution is basic as fuck. And, yeah, therein was one of my pain points with it. [01:52:36] Speaker B: Yeah. And, you know, I like when he. [01:52:39] Speaker A: Man would tell you not to go off with strangers or Superman would tell you about the dangers of smoking. It was like a fucking very special episode of she Ra, but with gigantic fucking topics in a way that was almost insultingly delivered. [01:52:53] Speaker B: Hmm. And I obviously disagree with that particular part of it. So give it a watch, friends. It is, you know, it's not a whole ton of your time. And then we'll do an extended discussion of it. And maybe also we were going to talk about the bear. So maybe those two shows, we can talk about. [01:53:10] Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly. Because I think they make very interesting counterpoint between one another. I think that they have a lot to say about what I agree with. [01:53:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I think they are two very different things, and you think they're doing the same thing and that they're in. [01:53:24] Speaker A: Not so much they're doing the same thing. But I think they have commonalities. And I think the way in which they deal with their respective subjects is oceans apart. [01:53:35] Speaker B: I agree that they're oceans apart, but I think they should be. And that is where we sort of divide on these two things. But give it a watch and then check out our chat about it on Tuesday about those two shows. And of course, we'll timestamp the ko fi thing so that if you just want to hear about the bear or whatever, you don't want spoilers. Things like that will make it. Yes, we'll make it clear for you. But, yeah, I think we've. Have we made it through all the things? [01:54:02] Speaker A: I think so. My God, a joag movie spectacular. Uncle Peck ahead, man. Fish. Capital M. Capital f r r. Difficult title to say. Beyond reanimator, immaculate death spa, beetlejuice, evil dead, fucking a shit ton of beavers. [01:54:19] Speaker B: I believe Richard was saying that, uh, because of the mix of how difficult RRR is to say and because of your accent, the transcript interpreted it as, like, a growl or, like, skipped it all together or something like that. Just straight up was like, God, what a journey. [01:54:37] Speaker A: That fucking. [01:54:37] Speaker B: That wasn't word. I know. Yeah. If you friends watch rRr, if you haven't yet, you know, if you're incredible that it keeps going, you're gonna be happy you did it. [01:54:46] Speaker A: Just the foot on the fucking gas for the whole runtime. That is unfucking unprecedented, man. [01:54:52] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. Well, listen, like, when I was in grad school, we watched a lot of indian movies, and this was about the only kind of movie that I consistently liked that we watched in grad school. Indians know what the fuck they're doing because, like, that's the thing, is they don't. You know, we have so many restraints in the ways in our, like, filmmaking, like, genre matter. If you're in, you know, like, you can't leave the constraints of what, like, a non fiction story would be like, or what a drama would be like. [01:55:26] Speaker A: Things like that. Fuck. A three act structure. RRR has, like, a nine act structure, 14 acts. Who gives a shit, right? [01:55:33] Speaker B: And, like, that's. I think, you know, it's so far outside of how we make movies and how we accept the structure of movies to be that it's like, you just have to let yourself get into go for it and go for that ride, and that's. Yeah, I generally love that about indian films. And RR is just such a great example of it. You just gotta. [01:55:52] Speaker A: Gotta watch it in many ways. Like man fish in that it's a risk, but one that pays the fuck off. You will. Just like, the time I invested, I felt, was time I got back in terms of the experience, the payoff in manfish, the risk you take by pressing play and just watching it in the first place, you will be rewarded tenfold. [01:56:18] Speaker B: Hear, hear. So, dear friends, next week we'll get back to, you know, being on track. It will be a Monday joag next week because you're gonna see the boss. [01:56:29] Speaker A: I'm gonna see the boss on what I suspect might be one of the last opportunities. [01:56:36] Speaker B: I said that when I saw him a decade ago. It's gonna keep going. That was my friends Monique and Andrew. And I had this, like, sort of pact, if you will, of, like, if we have the opportunity to see someone who might die any day or higher. Any day, take it. [01:56:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:56:53] Speaker B: The one time I didn't was Tom Petty, and he died the day after the concert. I wanted to go to heartbreaking. And so we went and saw Springsteen because we were like, he's old. You know, he could. And he played a three hour show like it was nothing. No big deal. And he's still doing the same shit like it's been. That has to have been like 1213 years ago that I saw him. Yes, he's still doing it. [01:57:16] Speaker A: So big bro, going to jump in the car and go see spring season. I can't wait. [01:57:19] Speaker B: I love that. Super fun. So Monday joag all and what any. Any advice for them while they await that for an extra for an 8th day? [01:57:30] Speaker A: Have a great week. Fucking, uh, keep your eye out if you're on the street, keep looking out for those motherfucking, uh, toynbee tiles. Watch all the movies you can, and we'll see you next week. And stay spooky. Oh, listen, I know I mentioned it super briefly, but can you. Can you do the she ra theme tune? Go. [01:57:56] Speaker B: I don't. I've never seen she Ra. [01:57:58] Speaker A: That's a shame. Just if you're interested.

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