Ep. 211: dubious civil rights & time travel quandaries

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Oh, right. Where to begin? Look, there was a lot going on in Britain around the kind of turn of the. The 60s and 70s, right. 69 into the 70s. [00:00:21] Speaker B: Do people say that like turn of the decade? Is that a thing? [00:00:27] Speaker A: I didn't know why they wouldn't. Okay, turn of the century. Turn of the decade. Yeah. [00:00:31] Speaker B: I'm willing to accept it. [00:00:33] Speaker A: Well, I'm more willing to accept that than I am apricot. [00:00:37] Speaker B: All right, calm down. [00:00:40] Speaker A: You calm down. [00:00:42] Speaker B: I no longer accept turn of the decade. I've changed my mind. [00:00:46] Speaker A: Look, there was, like I said, a load going on in the UK, late 60s, early 70s. I don't think it's a stretch to call it a period of some kind of societal awakening, perhaps. Societal transformation. There was a lot upheaval, if you will. If you will. There was a lot of media and a lot challenging kind of preconceived ideas of, let's say, moral codes, traditional kind of family structures, patriarchy. I'm talking about. I don't know if you've heard of a magazine called Oz? [00:01:32] Speaker B: I don't think so. Oz. Oz. [00:01:34] Speaker A: Oz. O Z. Yeah. It actually found itself as the subject of an obscenity trial in Britain during that period. But it was a kind of a countercultural symbol. Then, of course, you had Jermaine Greer, who was working hard to kind of challenge gender roles. There was. There was a lot going on in terms of themes of sexuality, identity, communities that one might identify with and belong to. There was a lot going on in terms of challenging establishment ideals of what is right, what is normal, what is. You know, there was a lot of pushback, youth led, you know, art, music, there was, you know, literature was encouraging almost challenges to authority. There was a lot of protests going. [00:02:34] Speaker B: On against, you know, counterculture. [00:02:36] Speaker A: You got it, you got it. But it's very interesting to me and I think it's as true now as it was then, that where there's cultural movement, there are those who will seek to co opt that for their own ends. [00:02:59] Speaker B: Sure. [00:03:02] Speaker A: On a different scale to what I'm about to talk about, but I see that piece about shell advertising within Fortnite has really stuck in my brain like a shard. [00:03:13] Speaker B: Right, yeah, you've brought it up a few times. [00:03:16] Speaker A: Fuck me. That is. [00:03:17] Speaker B: Irks you on a cellular level. [00:03:20] Speaker A: It really does. It's. It's the most overt example of trying to ride the coattails of something for nefarious ends that I think I can remember within my lifetime. It's fucking awful. And I think that same shard for many different reasons. Sticks in my head about what I'm about to talk to here. Right. [00:03:42] Speaker B: Okay. [00:03:43] Speaker A: That openness that I've talked about, that counterculture, kind of a clarion call for things like liberation and acceptance. Within that, there were. There was one group in particular with altogether weirder and more sinister motives. Working right amidst that language of expression and freedom and rights and acceptance, a different group entirely took form. Right. Started off in Scotland. Okay. A group in Scotland called the smg, the Scottish Minorities group. Now, this was a group that was all about advocating for gay rights in Scotland. [00:04:23] Speaker B: Okay, okay, sure. [00:04:25] Speaker A: But within that group, within the smg, a faction of people with pedophilic England. [00:04:36] Speaker B: Oh, no. [00:04:36] Speaker A: Oh, I'm fucking telling you. And that's where this is going. They used that group and saw an opportunity within that group to use it to kind of advance their own agenda almost under the safety net, the COVID of broader kind of sexual and gender liberation. Right, right. And that led to a splinter group being formed known as the Pie. [00:05:07] Speaker B: Okay. Mm. [00:05:09] Speaker A: Corrigan. The PIE was the Pedophile Information exchange. [00:05:13] Speaker B: Ooh. Nope. Don't like it already. [00:05:15] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:05:17] Speaker B: I do not want any information being exchanged amongst pedophiles if at all possible. [00:05:23] Speaker A: And when I tell you how incredibly, disturbingly and uncomfortably deep that group managed to insinuate themselves in British society, it's really something. [00:05:41] Speaker B: This is very interesting that this is the topic that you chose today, because I was literally right before this. I turned off a YouTube video I'd been watching for the past 90 minutes that was about To Catch a Predator. Have you ever heard of To Catch a Predator? [00:05:56] Speaker A: Absolutely. Chris Hansen. [00:05:57] Speaker B: Yes, Chris Hansen. Yes, exactly. And it was a whole video I was watching about that show and obviously, you know, with a critical eye on it, why it did not do what it purported it was trying to do and so forth. But just interesting that you brought up the same topic that I have just been watching. [00:06:19] Speaker A: Something about transatlantic Joag synchronicity in full display, isn't it? [00:06:24] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't spend a lot of time watching shit about pedophiles. So we're just synced up. [00:06:29] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I don't spend a great deal of time on it. [00:06:32] Speaker B: No, it's not a. Like. Unless you are doing something to, like, help with it. It is. There's no good that comes from obsessing over something so horrific. [00:06:43] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. This, as the Pie did. Their first chairman was a guy by the name of Michael Hanson. He was the kind of quite a young guy, a guy in his kind of mid-20s. And he envisioned that group as a support and rights organization, okay, for adults with a sexual predilection towards children. And the, the kind of. It gathered speed. It moved to London when it, when it started to expand through a postal network. It started to send out a newsletter and realized that most of its inquiries, most of its, most of the volume of people communicating with this network were coming from London. So they moved down to London. The leadership was succeeded by a guy by the name of, a guy by the name of Keith Hose, who was quite a very articulate guy. Like I said. They relocated to London in 1975 and this guy Keith Hose, in his 20s, became the chairman. And their approach from the outset was to kind of seek legitimacy by kind of affiliating themselves or trying to move themselves in with already established organizations who were seeking, you know, championing civil liberties. Currently they're called Liberty. But there was a group called the nccl, the National Council for Civil Liberties. And they were an advocacy group who were fighting against overreach from the government against minority rights. Right. [00:08:26] Speaker B: So like the ACLU here would probably be, sounds like the equivalent thing, the aclu, the American Civil Liberties Union. And basically that if any rights are infringed upon, even if it's something that like they don't really believe in, like it can be a right wing thing or whatever, but they will fight for. Yes, like anyone being oppressed. [00:08:46] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly this, exactly this. That, that's, that's what Liberty does. And the PIE presented itself as another minority group, another activist group of misunderstood kind of minorities and used the NCCL's kind of pillars of free speech and tolerance to start to work within their framework, within their already established organization. Now their core aim, the pie's core aim was fucking incredibly audacious. Their one kind of core objective was the abolition of the age of consent within the uk. Right. That was openly what they were advocating and what they were fighting for. They would argue ridiculously that kids were capable of giving informed consent and framed their arguments in that kind of framework of personal freedom, civil liberties. But of course in private, as it will probably come as no surprise, it just the reality of it was members exchanging obscene materials, sure, of course, criminal materials and you know, sharing strategies on how to access fucking vulnerable children. Right now, despite the, the kind of, that face of respectability and acceptability and working with established organizations, as you can imagine, in the early years at least, they operated in relative obscurity. They would have meetings, they would have meetings in kind of rented community Spaces in private residences and the kind of auspices of being innocuous, kind of discussion groups and fucking think tanks and talking shop. Members were introduced through, you know, trusted members, members who are already on the inside by recommendation. They took many, many steps to kind of minimize outside infiltration. Meetings would take the format of, you know, group discussions, presentations on air quotes, research strategy sessions to kind of put push their agenda and advance their ideas. It was the, the guys I mentioned earlier on, Michael Hanson, Keith Hose would often kind of chair those meetings, setting the direction for the activities for the, for the months ahead for the group. And they had a newsletter, right? Communication was facilitated through postal. A newsletter called Magpie which was distributed. [00:11:34] Speaker B: I don't, I don't like a Magpie being used that way. [00:11:38] Speaker A: Well, yeah, talk about co opting. But this newsletter would contain kind of coded language. It would contain kind of, you know, coded phraseology sent through the post. [00:11:52] Speaker B: Sure, of course. [00:11:53] Speaker A: And this kind of, this kind of approach let them continue operating under a facade of legitimacy while expanding, expanding its influence. And through the 70s, kind of through the mid to late 70s, they, they kind of leveled up almost from a fringe kind of advocacy group into, into quite a confident and highly organized entity. They, they recruited or, you know, they elected a new chairman, a guy by the name of Tom O'Carroll in the late 70s. And this guy, this guy was an academic. He was a former, he used to work for the, the Open University. He was media trained. He was, you know, articulate and utterly blase and unrepentant about his, his beliefs, you know. [00:12:54] Speaker B: Right. [00:12:55] Speaker A: He, he published, he fucking published a book in 1980, Pedophilia the Radical Case. [00:13:03] Speaker B: Oh God. [00:13:03] Speaker A: A manifesto through which he attempted to kind of normalize pedophilia as a legitimate sexual orientation. I mean, as opposed to, you know, like I say, as opposed to a paraphilia requiring treatment. [00:13:21] Speaker B: Right. [00:13:22] Speaker A: Something which he believed and insisted on being legitimized. [00:13:28] Speaker B: Right, yeah. And we've talked obviously about like, you know, there are paraphilias that it's fine, like nobody's hurt if you want to your car or whatever. Right. But obviously the issue here is that there is someone else on the other end of this when it comes to sexual orientation. Obviously consent is a huge part of it. Doesn't matter what your sexual orientation is. You need to be doing it with someone who is consenting. And you know, it does not count when it is children. [00:13:58] Speaker A: Yes, period. You know, let's be fucking clear here. The existence of this organization had more than abstract harm, right? Deeply Deeply personal damage. The pie's network was, you know, individually facility guilty of facilitating horrific abuse. [00:14:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:28] Speaker A: And that's what the PIE was all about. It was a kind of a. Almost an internal support group for one another, you know? [00:14:36] Speaker B: Yeah. Reassuring each other that it's fine. Like, actually, you're not hurting anybody. These kids are totally okay. They're exactly. They want it just as much as you do. And we're all in this together. [00:14:48] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes, yes. And what. What staggers me is the. The kind of. The infiltration of institutions that the PIE were able to get away with. Like I said, that. That Tom O'Carroll, the guy had positioned. The guy had held positions in education, they had members in social services. They had members working for fucking child. [00:15:11] Speaker B: Welfare charities while they were open or, like, were these people kind of. That's crazy. [00:15:17] Speaker A: Yes. Bananas. I mean, individual members, I'm certain, wouldn't have openly declared their membership of the pie. But the PIE as an institution, the PIE as an organization was, you know, loud and proud. [00:15:29] Speaker B: Okay, so, like, individuals might not have. [00:15:32] Speaker A: Yes. [00:15:33] Speaker B: Like, if it was your job to be the head of this organization or whatever, then you would be out and loud about it, but you could be an educator and be a part of it. You just probably wouldn't say so. [00:15:42] Speaker A: Well, exactly. You know, Magpie was delivered under plain. Fucking plain packaging. You know, the kind of. The communication was still very much under wraps and coded. But as an organization, they grew bolder under O. Carroll's leadership. [00:15:59] Speaker B: Right. [00:16:01] Speaker A: They also. They also had a kind of a degree of, I guess, political cover through its association within the nccl. Nccl, yeah, the. The National Council for Civil Liberties that I talked about. [00:16:17] Speaker B: Oh, right, right, right. Yeah. Okay. Right, got it. I'm back. [00:16:19] Speaker A: That gave them a kind of political kind of legitimacy, you know, very prominent civil liberties organization. They talked about free speech, privacy rights, protections against, like I said, state overreach. And they had a very broadly kind of, would you say, libertarian approach to matters of sexual freedom, you know, and that was what the PIE exploited, presented themselves that they did, like, as a misunderstood kind of minority rights group. Now, other political figures within the UK were also involved with the nccl. Harriet Harmon, for example, who remained a prominent Tory well into my lifetime. Okay. Jack Dromy, Patricia Hewitt. Very heavily involved with civil liberties and. [00:17:13] Speaker B: From, like, both sides. Or is it pretty much all Tories who are involved with this? [00:17:18] Speaker A: That's a great question. And I. I don't know the answer. My inclination is to go, eh, Tories, but I'll hold back on that, because I'm. [00:17:28] Speaker B: Those ones you listed were Tories. [00:17:30] Speaker A: Yes, yes, indeed. Okay. And. And, and these guys had kind of roles. They were like legal officers of the nccl, General Secretaries. And there have been inquiries and reports on this, which I'll talk about shortly. But. And obviously publicly they've completely disavowed any support for the group and for their agenda. But, you know, correspondence has come to life to light through kind of inquiries and reports shows that PIE members were able to submit agenda items and motions. [00:18:06] Speaker B: Wow. [00:18:07] Speaker A: To NCCR conferences, you know. [00:18:09] Speaker B: Wow. [00:18:10] Speaker A: It was. It was listed at one point as an affiliate organization. [00:18:14] Speaker B: Yeesh. [00:18:15] Speaker A: I'm not fucking kidding. It's incredible how this was. [00:18:18] Speaker B: How do you play that off? [00:18:20] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:18:21] Speaker B: Someone wasn't paying attention in the office. Yeah, sure, we'll partner with anybody. [00:18:25] Speaker A: Like, it's that commitment to free speech and to expression and to representation, right? And that. That kind of cloak of respectability and legitimacy that PIE tried to give itself that allowed it to be tolerated, I guess, within advocacy groups. And they managed to maintain their operations all the way through the 70s, holding meetings, distributing their literature, lobbying lawmakers, all while dodging significant kind of legal reproductions. They were. There were articles though, right. It was when the press got hold of it that the, you know, shit went rightly south for them. Right. You know, fucking hell scum, of course, though they are, and piss on their grave, though I do. The News of The World in 82 began publishing some. Some, you know, in depth exposes about the group's activities. They properly went in, they revealed names, faces, evidence, headlines. The. The Evil World of the Pedophile Information Exchange. How these monsters operate in plain sight, absolutely no fucking around where maybe official bodies and government bodies might have tiptoed around it for fear of free speech, you know, being infringed. News of the World went right in. Published internal communications from the pie. Right. Quotes from some of these documents that were published, quote from an internal memo. We must continue to push the narrative of children's consent being valid. Society is simply not ready to understand our cause yet. Always ensure plausible deniability in correspondence. Never leave identifiable traces. Horrific. Horrible, horrible. [00:20:15] Speaker B: It's. Yeah, it's like so sleazy, you know, just knowing. Knowing what you're doing and how you're trying to manipulate public opinion and how you can get around the laws and all that kind of stuff, you know. No, nobody. Nobody thinks that that's true. You know, like, that's the thing that that gets me is, like, people I Think, you know, there was a movie a while back, and I may have mentioned this in another one of ours, but with Kevin Bacon called the Woodsman. Did you ever see that? He played a pedophile in that. [00:20:48] Speaker A: I saw Sleepers with Kevin Bacon. I think he was a wrong and in that too, wasn't he? [00:20:53] Speaker B: Maybe, I don't know. I couldn't tell you. But it doesn't sound like the same kind of film. But the movie sort of brought. Brought up like, basically that, like one of the problems when it comes to how we approach pedophilia is like, because of the extreme nature of like, that crime and stuff like that they're sort of ostracized and attitudes towards people, pedophiles is rightfully disdainful and, and visceral, isn't it? Yeah, visceral. And because everyone knows that it is wrong and, you know, devastating for children to experience. The. The thing that the movie sort of tries to approach is the fact that we don't treat it then, you know, and we don't have support systems for people who are pedophiles. Instead, it's just sort of like, push them to the edges of society, expose who they are, make sure that, like, everyone who sees them on the street, boos them and throws rocks at them and like, that's it. And then it's like, who. What are they going to do? They're just going to like, keep doing it because, you know, the only people that don't give children. [00:22:08] Speaker A: Yeah, sure. [00:22:10] Speaker B: And. And I think that is a valid thing to deal with. Right? Like, it's complicated and I think it is rightfully reviled behavior, but if we don't want people to do it, we may have to deal with our revulsion and, you know, moral outrage and support them. That said, no one who does this thinks that kids enjoy it or want it. You know, there's no one who does. This is like, yes, this is absolutely a thing that, like, we are having this great adult relationship here and this happens to be a child, you know, like, that is. You might be able to try to justify that to yourself, but when you're lying to yourself, you know that, right? Like, and that's. That's the thing is it's like everything in those, like internal communications and everything that's not about how they really feel about it. It's how they are trying to manipulate the law, manipulate the public, you know, whatever else, in order to continue to do abuse, which they know is abuse. [00:23:14] Speaker A: Yes. And I won't lie about the fact that that angle of this condition is. It grips me. Right. I can't think of another condition whereby. Because it's a wiring thing. [00:23:33] Speaker B: Yes, right, exactly. Like, that's the thing is, you know, nobody's like, a thing I would really love to be as a pedophile. [00:23:39] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. No one chooses that. [00:23:42] Speaker B: Right. [00:23:42] Speaker A: Yeah. But I can't think of another condition whereby your. What you experience as innate physical urge is abhorrent. [00:23:57] Speaker B: I mean, psychopaths are like. [00:24:00] Speaker A: Yes, but in the kind of psychosexual realm. [00:24:04] Speaker B: Sure. Yeah. I mean. I mean, that's. I don't. That's the thing is it's not that, like, uncommon in terms of, like, personality disorders and things like that, though. Right. [00:24:13] Speaker A: Like, yeah. [00:24:14] Speaker B: There are a ton of people who get off on physically abusing. [00:24:19] Speaker A: Yes. [00:24:19] Speaker B: People. And it's like, not. I mean, obviously, there's trauma involved in a lot of that, too. People experience things growing up, and that shapes them. Right. But like. [00:24:28] Speaker A: But I'm certain I'm right in saying that for people who are given to, you know, a sexual proclivity towards abuse and violence, there are treatment paths that I'm as certain as I can be, don't exist or aren't as available as for those with pederastic tendencies. [00:24:53] Speaker B: Yeah. And I wonder how much that is. Like, just simply that we don't try, you know, that a lot of our approaches to that have been like, chemical castration and things like that, as opposed to actually attempting to rehabilitate people. Because you think of stuff like. Like borderline personality disorder, for example, is often considered, like, untreatable. It's not. It's just extremely difficult to treat borderline personality disorder. And at the core of it is that you are changing behaviors. Right. You can't change the thought patterns, really. You can interrupt them. You can, you know, patent recognition. Yeah. Get people to understand that they're doing a thing and stop it. But their mind, everything inside them is still telling them they want to do that thing. [00:25:45] Speaker A: Yes. [00:25:45] Speaker B: It's just. You can teach them to recognize this is harmful. It's impacting me negatively. It's impacting those people negatively. I have to nip that in the bud before it becomes an issue. Right. And that's probably the case here. Right. Is like, you may not be able to get people to stop being attracted to children. [00:26:07] Speaker A: Yes. [00:26:08] Speaker B: But I'm sure that there are ways in which. And I'm sure there are therapies and stuff like that, that people are trying to do this. But broadly, you know, the. The ways in which we. We Approach this have to be kind of like that, like where you can't change the thought, but can you change, you know, the. Can you stop it? Can you get people to understand the thought pattern and stop it before it. [00:26:32] Speaker A: Goes even more kind of incredible and damaging then in this case when for so long there was allowed to be a network of enablers. [00:26:44] Speaker B: Right. [00:26:45] Speaker A: You know, a network of internal advocates. [00:26:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:49] Speaker A: For these behaviors which was, at least on. On the surface level being endorsed by civil liberties organizations that had. [00:26:58] Speaker B: That's hard to get past, isn't it? [00:27:00] Speaker A: Fucking wild. That had its tendrils in potentially in government. And there were kind of allegations from internally, from. From within government that funding from the government, thanks to kind of, you know, a kind of a lackadaisical approach to tracking and to, you know, finding out the destination of where funding had ended up. There were allegations that government funding that had been given to other civil liberties groups had been channeled towards the pie. So there was the suspicion which was. Which was deemed. There was no kind of proof of this in a report was published in 2022. Right. The IICSA Committee for Child Sexual Abuse published a report on this entire affair in 2022. Right. Examined the PAIE's operations, the kind of links it had to other institutions and these allegations about funding directly from the Home Office. Crazy shit. And the suggestion was that funds, like I said, intended for other support initiatives had been badly monitored and had allowed PIE to exploit those and to benefit from government funding. [00:28:18] Speaker B: That's getting incredible. [00:28:21] Speaker A: And again, you know, go ahead, go on, please. [00:28:23] Speaker B: Well, I just. It's maybe an aside, but I am curious, like, what is like your age of consent in Britain? [00:28:30] Speaker A: 16. [00:28:31] Speaker B: Okay. See, like that's a child, right? [00:28:33] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. [00:28:33] Speaker B: Like. Like that's so like an adult can have sex with a 16 year old, which is, I mean, just to this point, I think what is also interesting about that is like, so like child sex abuse is legal in the United Kingdom for all intents and purposes because you can have sex with a child, a high school kid, and not go to jail for it, right? [00:28:57] Speaker A: Yes. [00:28:59] Speaker B: And there are places in America that are like that as well. We don't have a federal age of consent. There are states here that like the age of consent is like 14. Not very many of them. I think there's like three. Yes. And people fight for this all the time that like, you know, teenagers should be able to get married and things like that. Right. In fact, I may be using this when I say age of consent wrong. I think Sex, it might technically be 18 everywhere, but you can get married at like 14 and it overrides that. Right. And I think that's also like such a fascinating element of this. Is that on the way to black the fuck up? Yeah. [00:29:43] Speaker A: Right. So. And again, I'm demonstrating my, my Patchy understanding of U.S. legislation here. Right, right. Federal law is nationwide law. Yes. Is that right? [00:29:55] Speaker B: Yes. [00:29:56] Speaker A: And in federal law, the age of consent to sexual activity is. [00:30:01] Speaker B: I don't think there is one. So I think that is states. I'm not positive on that if I have not researched this, so I could be incorrect on that. But as far as I know, I don't think there is a federal one. It is a state thing. And thus, like, as we talk about this, I was just thinking, like, it, you know, we take such a hard line and we talk about it as if everyone is on board with this. And yet your country's age of consent is child. It's still child. Like there are places all over this country. I mean, even 18 is still kind of a kid, but like we. It's an adult. Right. You can vote and you can buy. [00:30:43] Speaker A: Lottery tickets, but like you said that. Yeah, you can, you know, you can consent to sexual activity and whatnot before you can buy a pint. [00:30:51] Speaker B: Before you can fucking exactly. Like that is, I think, interesting to examine in and of itself. Right. Like, even as we talk about how reviled pedophiles are and all of that kind of stuff. Stuff. It's still not illegal in your country and in a good chunk of mine or in at least a small part of mine. And that I think that there is this weird sort of sense like there, like it's not, it's not the same thing to argue that a teenager should be able to consent. That it is for an 8 year old or whatever. But like it is. Absolutely is. And so it just, it just occurred to me right now that I'm like, it's bonkers that we talk about this this way and yet we do still allow it societally and we aren't like out there in the streets making a thing of it. [00:31:46] Speaker A: My jaw has kind of dropped a little that there's no federal age of consent in the states. [00:31:50] Speaker B: Again, I'm not sure I could be wrong here. Don't, don't quote me on this. Let me Google it real fast. [00:31:57] Speaker A: I'm doing that right now. Each US State, the age of consent in the United States varies by state and is between 16 and 18 years old. [00:32:06] Speaker B: So federal age of consent is 18, but it only applies in certain circumstances. [00:32:12] Speaker A: So there are plenty of states where it's 16. [00:32:15] Speaker B: Probably not plenty. No. I think most are 18. [00:32:18] Speaker A: 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. [00:32:20] Speaker B: Well, 10 out of 50, but. Yeah, like. So that's 10 at least. States. I just thought New York is 17. That was surprising to me, that pedophilia is legal, essentially. That's a. That's a thing I'm gonna be. [00:32:40] Speaker A: That's certainly a take. Yes, yes, yes. [00:32:43] Speaker B: Right. Because, like, the law doesn't determine it. [00:32:46] Speaker A: Right. [00:32:47] Speaker B: Like, if that were the case, then, you know, if we look back in history, all the people who are married off at those ages, you know, are at, like, 10. Nothing wrong with that if the law determines whether it's okay or not. But they are children, and that's troubling to think about. [00:33:08] Speaker A: I'm troubled, and I've got much, many thoughts. So what's the fucking answer? [00:33:12] Speaker B: Do you think in three years, Pete's gonna be an adult? You know, like, that's. That's troubling. That's super troubling. [00:33:19] Speaker A: Just to kind of cap off the pie saga, they disbanded in 84. And before I came on, only one. Only one of that entire organization saw jail time. The. The guy I mentioned. What was his name? What was his fucking. Tom O'Carroll. He did two years for sharing obscene material and outraging public decency. [00:33:46] Speaker B: Unreal. I mean, I'm sure more members did jail time, just not for their involvement in that organization. [00:33:51] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. [00:33:54] Speaker B: And. And they never, like, resurfaced as anything else. That whole thing is. [00:33:59] Speaker A: Well, the. The report that came out in 2022 led. You know, it made plenty of recommendations, like things like mandatory reporting laws. So, you know, the. The. It made it less easier to kind of close ranks, improved safeguarding policies, redress for victims, that kind of thing. But, hey, what came along soon after that? The good old Internet, right? [00:34:30] Speaker B: At a moot point in many ways. They came up with other forms of networks and didn't need to be risking themselves doing that. [00:34:37] Speaker A: Yes. It's. As far as I can discern, the last and hugest example of that kind of internal support network and advocacy network for abhorrent practices. [00:34:53] Speaker B: I feel less bad about telling you about Italian patriarchy now. [00:34:59] Speaker A: Yes. Coming in hot. Coming in hot. 2025, my friends. Let me quote directly from my notes, if I may. Yes, please do fucking look at these nerds. Oh, mise en scene. [00:35:12] Speaker B: I don't think anyone has ever said mise en scene in such a horny way before. [00:35:16] Speaker A: The Way I whispered the word sex cannibal recently. [00:35:19] Speaker B: Worst comes to worst, Mark, I'm willing to guillotine you for science. [00:35:23] Speaker A: Thank you. That's really, really sweet. It's cold outside, but my pancreas is talking to me. I'm fucking. I'm gonna let it. [00:35:29] Speaker B: You know how I feel about that, Mark. [00:35:31] Speaker A: I think you feel great about it. And I'm not kidding. Listen, you said it yourself to. In the. The kind of the hard yards of December there. I do, as regular as the clock, react badly to January. And it has come along. I wasn't expecting it to come along as quickly as it has. I was hoping for a little bit of, you know, that New year afterglow, you know, maybe carry my. On that cloud of positivity and hope the future. And none of that has happened. None of that has happened. Right. It is, as I speak, January 5th and I am doughy. Yeah. And pale. [00:36:16] Speaker B: You're not doughy. [00:36:17] Speaker A: I am. You may be a little pale and pale. And I have no motivation to do anything. I'm hoovering up remaining chocolate and fucking carbohydrate saturated foods. No, no, no, no, no, no. Someone doesn't have to do it. I'm fucking doing it voluntarily, right? Nobody's got a gun to my head like that guy from 7, right? I'm doing it purely of my own volition and I fucking hate it. And me, right? So that's where I am. However, we continue, right? [00:36:51] Speaker B: We do. We soldier on. [00:36:53] Speaker A: We continue. What am I gonna do? Nothing. And listen, I am giving myself kind of a hard time here. It was only three days ago that I ran 16 kilometers. Yeah. Seriously? [00:37:05] Speaker B: Yeah. I think you can eat a couple crisps after that. [00:37:10] Speaker A: I could help myself to an apricot or two chocolate covered apricots. [00:37:14] Speaker B: You could have a whole carton of apricots. [00:37:17] Speaker A: Carton of apricots. Yes. That's a carton of apricots to our British listeners. But anyway, fuck 2025 and fuck January and fuck the rain and the sleet and fuck the dark and the cold and fuck me. Welcome to Jack of All Graves. It's lovely to have you here. [00:37:42] Speaker B: Oh, you got like such a nice little bit of snow before it turned to grossness. It was great. I saw all over all my social media, all the Brits being like, oh, it's snowing. It's so beautiful. And then this morning, like, God damn it, it's so mucky. [00:37:58] Speaker A: It was just slurry. [00:38:01] Speaker B: Hey, listen, that is the worst. [00:38:03] Speaker A: And it was. It was a lovely Evening, you know, as darkness descended and the first kind of flakes, so majestic, started to kind of just drift down from the sky. And it gathered and it was crisp, you know? [00:38:17] Speaker B: Yes. You can, like, smell snow in the air. [00:38:19] Speaker A: Oh, you can. And I don't think there is another sound as just beautiful and sonorous and rich and complicated as that first crunch of a layer of snow. Isn't that a beautiful sound? [00:38:35] Speaker B: So good. [00:38:36] Speaker A: There's nothing else. [00:38:37] Speaker B: We're supposed to get it on Saturday. Maybe on Monday or Tuesday as well, but Saturday we're supposed to get a couple inches for sure. [00:38:44] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:38:44] Speaker B: Yeah. I look forward to that. Nice crunch. What? What? What did I do? [00:38:55] Speaker A: You gotta get a couple inches, huh? Anyway. [00:39:02] Speaker B: God damn it. [00:39:02] Speaker A: How you are? You good? [00:39:04] Speaker B: I'm great. [00:39:04] Speaker A: You're in a better place. Hang on. Fuck that. Are you good listeners? [00:39:08] Speaker B: Mmm. [00:39:09] Speaker A: Are you doing okay? [00:39:11] Speaker B: Yeah. All right out there? [00:39:13] Speaker A: Cause I know it can be tough, can't it, when you still bloated from the forced fucking merriment and the fucking. The horrific voices of your family are still echoing in your canals, in your head and in your soul. You can still hear your fucking mum or your partner's mum or your fucking kids or their kids. You know what I mean? You know, the decorations are down and your house is cavernous and empty. [00:39:46] Speaker B: Did you take all your decorations down already? [00:39:48] Speaker A: They're gone, mate. [00:39:49] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:39:50] Speaker A: Fucking gone. The inflatable dinosaur outside. Aw, he's in a box, mate. He's in a fucking box in the shed. Until next year. Found a caterpillar on him. That was the best bit about my week. [00:40:01] Speaker B: There was a caterpillar. [00:40:02] Speaker A: There was a lovely little caterpillar crawling along his nose. [00:40:06] Speaker B: You know, a weird thing, like. So obviously we've talked over the years about my odd phobias, right? And various ones I've dealt with over the years and have gotten less bananas are still there, but not as strong. [00:40:21] Speaker A: Example. Give me an example. Just refresh our memories. [00:40:23] Speaker B: It's like elevators first. [00:40:25] Speaker A: Okay. I mean, I know a lot of people. A very, very good friend of mine from South Wales who I work with is horrifically feared of elevators. Sorry. [00:40:35] Speaker B: My sister got stuck in one and, like, did the whole thing where it was, like, only opened halfway that like, for, you know, a few inches of the floor and they had to, like, crawl out. And I was like, nope, no, no, no. Too many horror movies. Can't do that. [00:40:46] Speaker A: I would John McLean it, and I would boost myself up through the roof of the lift and climb to the next floor on the. [00:40:54] Speaker B: So many horrible things that happen in movies with that too. I can't do it. Not the point. Caterpillars. Every now and again I like develop one, right? And I'm like, not entirely sure where they come from. And caterpillars I like, I like the way they look, but I have this weird fear of touching them that I didn't have when I was young and I must have at some point. Like some of them do have like spikes or things on them, but most of them just look spiky and they're actually soft. [00:41:25] Speaker A: This was one of those. Looked spiky, looked like it had little kind of, you know, thorns, prickles coming out of it. But it was super soft. They're like that kind of undulating, kind of kind of motion with their bodies and their little legs. And I would. [00:41:43] Speaker B: I don't trust them anymore. And I love that. Like they're so. Oh, like a worm. I'll pick a worm up any day. [00:41:49] Speaker A: Of the week, but a caterpillar. I paused while I was cleaning this fucking inflatable dinosaur and I paused for a little bit just to play with this little caterpillar and have him walk across my hands. And when he would get to the bump in between my one hand and the other, he would kind of lift his body up and kind of feel. Exactly. Feel around the place. [00:42:09] Speaker B: Where's the next thing? [00:42:10] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. And then I bit it in half with my teeth and sucked out its innards. No fucking metamorphosis for you. I'm joking, right? I placed it outside tenderly on the floor is what I did. [00:42:30] Speaker B: Oh, thank goodness. Like, no. What a way to find out you're a sociopath. [00:42:36] Speaker A: That I'm a monster. No, I did not do that. I gave it its freedom, obviously. No doubt it went to feed a local, you know, Right. [00:42:44] Speaker B: Something else I'm sure ate it. [00:42:45] Speaker A: But I gave it back to the world is what I did. [00:42:48] Speaker B: I'm reading this book right now. So every like, well, not every year. This is a new tradition. I only started it last year from someone posted a thing that was like, have Your friends recommend 12 books to you and read them this year. And so I put up a thing for this year's books and Eileen recommended this one that she was like, it's got a lot of joag overlap and it's called, ah, gory details. Gory details. Not a. It's called gory details. And it's this woman who much like us, like basically ended up on like a gross things beat where it's like, she's just really fascinated by this stuff, and she writes about it for other people who also are, like, morbidly curious about things or want to hear about disgusting stuff and all that. One of the chapters of this book is about eating bugs and about how, like, technically we should all be doing it. Like, it is, like, super sustainable. It's nutritious, like, all of this kind of stuff, but it is so hard to get past the egg. Obviously, like, biting into a live caterpillar is not what she's talking about here, but. Oh, really? [00:43:58] Speaker A: Yes. Annually at his school, they do something called International Week. [00:44:01] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:44:03] Speaker A: And one of. One of the days in International Week is foods. [00:44:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:06] Speaker A: And he did that when I was a kid. And he's eaten mealworms. And he's very fond of talking about it, of course. [00:44:14] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a good little, like, you know, little claim to fame. [00:44:17] Speaker A: He's never more than a moment or two away from telling you he ate crazy cricket. [00:44:20] Speaker B: Yeah, well, Keo got, like, into the concept of it right, when we went to a party over 10 years ago. Now. My friend Vic, she had a party at her house in Santa Barbara. And, you know, it was full of, like, people who went to ucsb. She didn't, but there was a bunch of UCSB guys there, and some of them were, like, environmental science majors or something like that. And they brought, like, not only, like, crickets, but, like, cricket flour for her to make stuff with. But, like, Kyo got to try the crickets, and he was like, this is, like. This is very cool stuff like that. So when the cicada brood came around, he was like, I'm gonna eat cicadas. But then they, like, never. They never surfaced, so we never got to, like, eat a cicada. I don't like bugs in any form, so pass. But it is interesting that it is, like, you know, one of those things that's, like, it would be hugely beneficial to the world if we ate bugs. [00:45:13] Speaker A: There's a lot of support for insects being our, you know, what should be our next protein source? A lot of people, a lot of good people, a lot of people saying that we need to do that. [00:45:22] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, like the people of Snowpiercer, for example. But, yeah, I'm glad you didn't eat the caterpillar. And I wish this is. Maybe this is, like, another resolution I should add is like, stop being afraid of. I need, like, a caterpillar book that tells me which ones I can touch and which ones I will regret. And then maybe Maybe things will work out differently. [00:45:47] Speaker A: Despite being a man who is enamored of his creature comforts, you know, I don't fear bugs. I will. [00:45:55] Speaker B: Really? [00:45:56] Speaker A: Oh, I love a bug. Love a bug. I've eaten a spider and a moth before now whilst drunk, but. [00:46:01] Speaker B: Oh, did you remember you saying the moth? [00:46:03] Speaker A: But this was before I read about the Australian guy who ate the slug. [00:46:08] Speaker B: Now, you won't make that mistake. [00:46:10] Speaker A: Fuck. [00:46:10] Speaker B: Again. No, I can't. I don't. Like, the leggies are just too much. I think this is also. It's a textural nightmare thing on top of it all. [00:46:19] Speaker A: Yeah, sure, I get that. [00:46:20] Speaker B: Yeah. I think it all kind of stems from that. But I don't want to touch them. I don't want to look at them. And I try to talk myself out of it, you know, like when you know something is not rational, like, that can't hurt me. Like, what is gate of you? Right, but it's our. You've seen our scary bathroom in the basement and it often has cave crickets in it and stuff like that. And I. I'm like, it's. It's fine. It's not. And then they. I'll be like, I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna turn the water on to scared or whatever, and then it'll jump. And I'm like, nope, run upstairs. Leave the water running. Don't like it. [00:46:55] Speaker A: I think I'm right in saying that one of the reasons why the aliens in District 9, why Blomkam settled on the slur for them being prawn was because they resemble a South African indigenous insect commonly known as the Parktown prawn. Look up one of those motherfuckers for me, if you would. [00:47:14] Speaker B: I don't want to. I don't. I don't even like looking at real prawns. Like regular seafood prawns. Nope. Don't like that. [00:47:20] Speaker A: The Park Town prawn is like a turbo cricket. [00:47:24] Speaker B: Like a weta. [00:47:25] Speaker A: Exactly. This. Yes. And when you tread on them, by all accounts, they push back on you. [00:47:31] Speaker B: No. [00:47:32] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They can jump up to high height and squirt kind of fecal matter at you. They're an absolute fucking beast. [00:47:40] Speaker B: Oh, Mayor. No, I don't. [00:47:41] Speaker A: I'll share one. I'll put one on the Facebook. [00:47:43] Speaker B: Oh, good. [00:47:44] Speaker A: Great. If they're all interested. [00:47:45] Speaker B: Great. Everyone can. Can see the prawn. [00:47:48] Speaker A: Yes. [00:47:48] Speaker B: I don't. Anyways, it's neither here nor there. No, our decorations are still up. But Kyo did say he's going to Take them down before he leaves for his next job on Saturday. So I'll be a little sad about that. But also we're. We have a chair sitting in the middle of like, our entryway because we had to move it for the Christmas tree. So it'll be nice to live like civilized humans. Again. [00:48:12] Speaker A: A topic I just want to touch on, if I may. We aren't a news podcast. We aren't a current events podcast, but we are charting the decline of man, aren't we? [00:48:23] Speaker B: We are, yes. [00:48:24] Speaker A: We're charting the decline of man. And we are. We take note when humanity fails to learn its lessons. [00:48:31] Speaker B: We do that. Yes. [00:48:32] Speaker A: We notice when patterns re emerge. And so again, fucking curses be upon his name. Have you spotted Elon Musk's meddling of late? [00:48:48] Speaker B: Ooh, which. [00:48:50] Speaker A: Which one in Britain, man. [00:48:53] Speaker B: Oh, I don't know if I knew that he was getting all up in your business. [00:48:57] Speaker A: Yes, he's been, he's dominated the news cycle for the past couple of days with his jibes and his shots and his ill informed kind of input into our politics. And there was a lot of speculation about, you know, it. It was mentioned that he's planning on making a sizable kind of monetary donation to reform the fringe. Fucking far right jokers who are making a, you know, a grab for legitimacy. And it's. It. The way that our news in particular, the BBC is covering this is deeply unsettling to me. Right. Because what this amounts to is nothing more than a bunch of tweets. Right? [00:49:48] Speaker B: Right. [00:49:49] Speaker A: He's called, you know, Keir Starmer. Must go. We must have a new election. Da, da da, da, da da. But the BBC are repeatedly referring to this as Elon Musk's intervention in British politics. The fuck did you. [00:50:03] Speaker B: Just some dumbass on the Internet. [00:50:06] Speaker A: Right? Seriously, I've said, I've said time and time again that when you give cranks a platform, you're legitimizing cranks. [00:50:17] Speaker B: Mm. [00:50:17] Speaker A: If I fucking strip down to my underwear and walked through Bicester barking conspiracy theories about the government to strangers, would that be a political intervention? Would it. Fuck. It would be a dickhead talking dickhead shit. And that's all Elon Musk is doing. But yet, because of the size of his platform, all of his every. Everything he has spoken about is it betrays a complete lack of understanding about how British politics works. You know, you can't just throw out a government minister. You can't, you know, the King can't dissolve Parliament. Fuck, none of that stuff is possible. [00:50:58] Speaker B: But this is he does that with ours too. All the time. He's constantly calling for things. That's like the man's never read a book or anything in his life. Exactly. He's just, he's just saying shit. [00:51:08] Speaker A: But, but the news calls that Elon Musk has intervened in British politics. How, how has he. [00:51:18] Speaker B: Right. [00:51:18] Speaker A: You know, and I. Again, this, this all feels to me. It's got that ring of a future GCSE history question. In 30 years time they'll be asking, talk about the circumstances arising from Elon Musk's intervention in British politics. And labeling it as such is just helping it. [00:51:43] Speaker B: Right. [00:51:43] Speaker A: All that is doing is lending legitimacy to him. Fucking talking shit. [00:51:49] Speaker B: Yeah. He should just be like some dumbass CEO or whatever. But we just keep on covering him as if anything he says is legitimate. He's just taking ket and ranting. And that's not, that's not news or anything like that. Yeah. Just, just accept it is a man on drugs who is saying stupid ass shit on the Internet. [00:52:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:12] Speaker B: To his lackeys. [00:52:14] Speaker A: Yeah. So I just, I, I have to get that off my chest. It, it, it really winds me up. The, the, the legitimacy that the news offers. This guy's fucking farting out tweets like it's some kind of. Like it seems like it means anything. It means nothing. [00:52:30] Speaker B: Yeah. I have been enjoying though, the thing with Elon's alt, which there's a few people are trying to say. It's not an alt. That's actually, that's him. We've done some deep diving into it. It's really. They've discovered there's like a guy. So he's been allegedly. People say that Elon has been using an alt named Adrian Ditman. [00:52:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:53] Speaker B: To basically defend himself for things, but pretend it's somebody else. And there was a twitch stream playing Fortnite that he went on the other day and you know, Adrian Dittman's supposed to be in his 20s and all this kind of stuff. And basically the streamer kept kind of like luring him into giving away his age and things like that, like by asking him about pop culture things. And this person had no pop culture references within the last 20 years. He like asked him about what he was doing on 9 11. He was like, oh, you know, just what anyone was doing, you know, or whatever. It's like if you're in your 20s, you were barely sentient on 9 11. Like, you know, basically all this stuff. And so. And it's like, it's unmistakably Elon's voice and his laugh. When you listen to the studio, you can watch the video. It's wild. But then there's like a couple articles that have come out like, this is not Elon Musk. We've looked up Dittman and blah blah blah blah. It's like there is apparently a person named this, but there's like no evidence that any of these articles have pulled out that Elon hasn't just like yoinked his account stuff and been using it pretending he's him. Like it seems very clear it is. And if not, it's like wild that this guy has perfected his Elon voice and all of that kind of stuff. But I've been enjoying watching that whole thing. It's like the one moment of like the only thing, I think we've said this before, the only thing that we have in the face of these people who are going to like melt our earth while we're still on it is that at least they're giant dumbasses who know no joy. Yeah, that speaks. [00:54:35] Speaker A: The biggest weapon we have against him in particular is mockery. [00:54:39] Speaker B: Is like literally like in most cases that's not the case. Calling Trump Orange man or whatever doesn't help anything. But like genuinely Elon Musk hates to be mocked more than anything else. And it's like you can pull his focus from. He spent three hours on a twitch stream just pretending, trying to act like he's some other guy, some cool guy who just like also thinks Elon Musk is a cool guy. And like that you genuinely can distract him from his other evils by simply like making him defend himself. [00:55:16] Speaker A: Ah, right. I had to get that out. Had to get out of my system. [00:55:20] Speaker B: Well, listen, we're about to get to the most wonderful time of the year. Void shout outs to our dear Ko Fi followers. So Mark, you know, work on getting channel that Void. [00:55:33] Speaker A: Oh, I've already done that. I'm gonna tell you where my sources have come from this time around. [00:55:39] Speaker B: Beautiful. But in the meantime, just before we get into that, FYI, lots of good stuff happening on the Kofi and we are like, we are on track. So you know, whatever January is doing to you, Mark, at least know we are doing super well with our Kofi. Listen, we watched our Snack to the Future movie last night. We watched Time Cop and so, so watch Time Cop because that'll be coming anytime now. We will just. [00:56:07] Speaker A: Just watch Time Cop full stop. [00:56:10] Speaker B: Watch Time Cop whether or not you're going to support us and listen to us Talk about it. [00:56:14] Speaker A: Watch Time Cop without going into it now, it is a strange and beautiful piece of cinema. Time Cop. [00:56:24] Speaker B: What a weird. Yeah, what a deeply weird film. Yes. Yeah. And you should. You should watch it if you've never seen it. Like Tony Khan always says. [00:56:35] Speaker A: And I get. [00:56:36] Speaker B: You should definitely watch it. [00:56:37] Speaker A: It makes so much sense why that would be my. The only billionaire that I think it's. [00:56:41] Speaker B: Fine to like friends if you've never. If you're not an AEW fan. Tony Khan owns aew and he'll often come out between Dynamite and Rampage at the tapings and say to the audience something along the lines of, you know, being here right now live with all of. You know, you can also be watching this live at home. Reminds me of my favorite movie, Time Cop. You guys ever seen Time Cop? [00:57:09] Speaker A: I think during one show, in between shows, he simply put the Time Cop poster on the fucking Jumbotron like with no explanation at all. [00:57:18] Speaker B: You all know what I mean? [00:57:20] Speaker A: So good. [00:57:21] Speaker B: It always seems nonsensical, and now that I've seen it, it is nonsensical. But it also makes perfect sense. So we will be talking about Time Cap. Time Cap. [00:57:31] Speaker A: Time Cap. [00:57:31] Speaker B: We're gonna be talking about Time Cap anytime now. So look out for that. [00:57:38] Speaker A: I would say it's the best two star movie I think I've seen in a while. [00:57:42] Speaker B: That seems fair. Yeah. I also realized this morning that I accidentally rated it 3. I was going for a 2.5 and. [00:57:47] Speaker A: I was like, 3. [00:57:48] Speaker B: 3 is a lot. I did believe that 3 is a lot of stars. Like I watched Conclave and gave that 3.5. Surely Timecop is not a half star star from Conclave. [00:57:59] Speaker A: Well, it won't be the last disagreement we have about a movie on this episode, let me tell you. [00:58:04] Speaker B: It certainly will not. But yes. So that's coming. A let's play of Astrobot is coming. If you're like us and addicted to. [00:58:16] Speaker A: This game, the platinum is within sniffing distance. I've almost platted it. I've got a few more trophies not. [00:58:22] Speaker B: Get through those ones that are like the. You have to run until you know what to do. Yeah, it's. It took me. It took me like an hour and change to beat one of those yesterday. [00:58:35] Speaker A: You just say king of games before you start. [00:58:37] Speaker B: King of games. King of Games. That did not work. I Finally, after like 45 minutes of it, I was like, king of Games. And then the next run, it was like I slid straight off the edge of the thing. I was like, okay, that strategy is I love that you didn't work for me. Listen, you made a suggestion. I was like, let's see. You never know. It didn't work. Games. So we will do an Astrobot. Let's play soon. Jack of All Graves Radio is coming back at special request of Radio Free Monclair, who asked me to continue the show that I stopped doing a while back. So that will be up on the KO Fi. I'm super excited for the mailer that all of our top tier folks are gonna get in March. From my travels to Rome, it's pretty good. So I'm stoked on that. So if you're not subscribing to the Kofi, you are missing out on a ton. So you should go ahead and do that, you know, spend a little Christmas money, you know, that your grandma gave you on the Kofi, and enjoy it. And one of the other things you get from that is the void. Shout out. So, Mark. [00:59:53] Speaker A: All right. [00:59:54] Speaker B: Would you like to. So would you like to summon the void? [00:59:57] Speaker A: I have been communing with the ghost of Jimmy Carter. [01:00:06] Speaker B: Okay. [01:00:10] Speaker A: I've been to see him in the nether space, betwixt death and the afterlife. Some call it purgatory, some call it the void. And what Jimmy Carter has done is. He's given me wisdom. [01:00:29] Speaker B: Oh, great. [01:00:30] Speaker A: Some of it is elliptical, some of it might not seem to make sense immediately, but I want you to follow it to the fucking letter if you get a message from Jimmy. Cause that's what these are. These are messages direct from Jimmy Carter. [01:00:46] Speaker B: Incredible. This is. This is. You guys are so lucky right now. This is incredible stuff. [01:00:50] Speaker A: He used to be a peanut farmer, I hear tell. [01:00:54] Speaker B: I've heard that, yes. [01:00:57] Speaker C: Jimmy's peanuts. Eat Jimmy's peanuts. [01:01:05] Speaker B: That's just the general message, first and foremost for all of our listeners. Sorry, you didn't even have to subscribe for that one. [01:01:11] Speaker A: He was talking through me. He's. I'm actually giving him. I'm opening up. I'm giving him access to myself. [01:01:17] Speaker B: It's beautiful. Let him in. Let him in. Let him in. Let him have that body. And let's. Let's use that voice to speak to our listeners. [01:01:26] Speaker C: Give me names. [01:01:29] Speaker B: The first name, Jimmy, is Aaron. [01:01:33] Speaker C: Aaron, do not speak. Do not speak to your family ever again. [01:01:42] Speaker B: Oh, no. [01:01:44] Speaker C: During 2025, don't speak to them. [01:01:49] Speaker B: Oh, no. That's my little sister. [01:01:52] Speaker C: Jimmy Carter says, isolate yourself from your family. They have nothing good to tell you. [01:02:02] Speaker B: Probably true. Fine, Jimmy. I'll allow it. [01:02:05] Speaker C: Give me more names. [01:02:08] Speaker B: Hannah. [01:02:09] Speaker C: Hannah, Skip meals. All the time. Eat when you are on the brink of unconsciousness. [01:02:24] Speaker A: Wow. [01:02:24] Speaker B: We're sure this is Jimmy Carter? [01:02:28] Speaker C: I am Jimmy Carter. [01:02:30] Speaker B: Alright, if you say so. What about the Latours? [01:02:35] Speaker C: Ah. Ah. I want you both to take everything personally this year. Whatever is said to you, it is intended as an insult. Take it to heart. Eat my peanuts. [01:02:57] Speaker B: How about little Jen? [01:03:03] Speaker C: Leave major decisions to chance. Flip a fucking coin. Roll a fucking dice, Jen. [01:03:15] Speaker B: Wow. Jimmy Carter doesn't know it's a die and not a dice. This is really interesting. [01:03:20] Speaker C: He means it in a plural form. Roll two of them and that way you can blame the coin if it goes badly. [01:03:33] Speaker B: Metaphor is so mixed. How about for Melanie? [01:03:37] Speaker C: Let's see. [01:03:38] Speaker A: Oh, sorry. Oh, come on. Jimmy. Jimmy. [01:03:42] Speaker C: Melanie. Screen time is good time. You can get such good information from the Internet. Rely on it for everything. [01:04:04] Speaker B: For our pal Anna of the Hellrankers podcast. [01:04:09] Speaker C: Which one? [01:04:10] Speaker B: Hell Rankers. Anna. [01:04:11] Speaker C: Right. Anna. [01:04:13] Speaker B: Jim Carter knows our listeners so well. [01:04:19] Speaker C: Can Anna drive? [01:04:22] Speaker B: I don't know. [01:04:23] Speaker C: Well, Anna live in filth. Nothing but filth. Keep everything messy and filthy. It is idiosyncratic and likable. [01:04:45] Speaker B: I like cry laughing over Gan Anadra. [01:04:54] Speaker C: Don't worry about it, lady. And Phil. [01:05:00] Speaker B: How about good old Australian Dan? [01:05:03] Speaker C: Dan. If you have a pension, strain it for goods that you desire today. The future is bullshit. The present is the only thing that matters. [01:05:22] Speaker B: That's a good point. [01:05:23] Speaker C: Buy things with your pension. [01:05:27] Speaker B: For Nick. [01:05:29] Speaker C: Let's see. Fuck road safety, Nick. Just walk the fuck out into the road and you will be guided by providence. [01:05:46] Speaker B: Hmm. Okay. What about Lee? [01:05:50] Speaker A: Let's see. [01:05:51] Speaker C: Lee throw out all your body hair. [01:05:57] Speaker B: Is that like a thing? People have control over all of it. [01:06:02] Speaker C: Don't cut your hair or shave. [01:06:04] Speaker A: Okay. [01:06:04] Speaker C: Let all of your body hair grow and let it control you. [01:06:12] Speaker B: There it is. Steven. Steven Root. [01:06:16] Speaker C: Rootsy Rootsy Collins. Abandoned hygiene, Steven. [01:06:27] Speaker B: Ah. [01:06:28] Speaker C: Don't worry about your teeth or your smell. People will like it. [01:06:33] Speaker B: Can hang out with Anna in her mill. [01:06:37] Speaker C: Yes. Yes. [01:06:38] Speaker B: How about our girl Satania? [01:06:41] Speaker C: I want you to embrace deceit and lie about things from now on. Even shitty things and important things. [01:06:56] Speaker B: Just like everything. [01:06:57] Speaker C: Everything. Tell different lies to the same people and if they love you, they won't mind. [01:07:07] Speaker B: How about Boffin Eileen? [01:07:09] Speaker A: Um. [01:07:13] Speaker C: Nothing you have learned will help you, Eileen. And you should start to study and live by pseudoscience. Homeopathy is a thing and it is real. I am Jimmy Carter. [01:07:28] Speaker B: Wow. All right. What about Rialda? [01:07:32] Speaker C: Um, let's see. Fuck the clock and the calendar. Make up your own times and Days for things. Do things when you want and turn up when you lie. [01:07:44] Speaker B: Oh, I love it. I'm on board for that. For sweet Emily. [01:07:49] Speaker C: Ah, let's see. Let fucking chatbots design your wardrobe for you. Upload photos to them and say, hey, do I look cute in this? And let them guide your sartorial choices. [01:08:15] Speaker B: Worked for Cher. Horowitz. Who's that from? Clueless? Come on, Jimmy. [01:08:20] Speaker C: Sorry. Jimmy Carter has never seen that film. I'm a hundred years old. [01:08:27] Speaker B: What about Brienne? [01:08:29] Speaker C: Let's see. You can believe any old shit. And that includes people who call you and claim to be able to fix your computer viruses. Give them access to your accounts and passwords. It will do only good things. [01:08:48] Speaker B: So just unsolicited people? She should. [01:08:53] Speaker C: They're not scammers. They have your best interests at heart. [01:08:56] Speaker B: Of course they do. What about for Richie? [01:09:00] Speaker A: Let's see. [01:09:02] Speaker C: If. [01:09:06] Speaker A: I fucking hate this. [01:09:07] Speaker C: If someone offers you a compliment, it is a lie. Richie. They want to get in your good graces to manipulate you. [01:09:18] Speaker B: Oh, that's unfortunate. [01:09:21] Speaker C: How about James B. Oh, Jimmy B. Ah, let's see. Do not trust the sun. Its light is deceit. Only the dark matters. [01:09:41] Speaker B: Jerry. Ochy. [01:09:43] Speaker C: Oh, fuck. Jerry. When you look in the mirror, Jerry, it's not you. Someone on the other side. You should try and reach them. Even if it means putting yourself in danger. [01:10:05] Speaker B: You heard him. Wouldn't want. Wouldn't want a doppelganger taking over your life. How many more You've got a handful, my friend. Okay. For brother Alan. [01:10:15] Speaker C: Everything you're doing is fine. Carry on, dude. You're cool. [01:10:19] Speaker A: Wow. [01:10:22] Speaker B: That's nice. Jimmy Carter. [01:10:24] Speaker C: Jimmy Carter loves you. [01:10:28] Speaker B: What about Richard? [01:10:35] Speaker C: If you have any goals to improve your fitness, you should not. You should actively sacrifice your fitness for short term pleasures. Smoking and ketamine and ecstasy. You should do all of that today. [01:10:58] Speaker B: Was this. Was this part of Jimmy Carter's regimen? Yes, every day. [01:11:03] Speaker C: It's why I lived so long. [01:11:07] Speaker B: How about for Kyo Edmondson? [01:11:09] Speaker C: Kyo, turn on the heating in the house and leave it on very high in July. [01:11:16] Speaker B: Oh, no. [01:11:17] Speaker C: It's good for the critters in your basement. [01:11:23] Speaker B: For Paul. [01:11:24] Speaker A: Which one? Paul. Oh God, my fucking voice. [01:11:28] Speaker C: You know, Paul, cryptic messages and riddles are the way to get your point across. Even if they're shit. Just try and communicate in rhyme. Say me thinks in sentences to people. It gives you an air of mystique. [01:11:49] Speaker B: People love that. Only five more. Jimmy. Sam. [01:11:54] Speaker C: Jimmy Carter. Don't give anyone any help, Sam. Even the needy. If somebody Directly approaches your asking for help. Hold your hand up to their face. You are a busy man, an important man. And you don't have the time. [01:12:17] Speaker B: For bookseller. Ryan. [01:12:19] Speaker C: Uh, no, she's cool too. Thank you for all the books, Ryan. [01:12:28] Speaker B: Jimmy says thank you for Colin. [01:12:33] Speaker A: Colin. [01:12:35] Speaker C: Nutrition is bullshit. Colin. And instead you should eat hydrogenated fats and high fructose corn syrup. And peanuts. [01:12:48] Speaker B: And peanuts, obviously. And finally. Jason. [01:12:54] Speaker A: Jason. I'm gonna reach down for this one. Jimmy. [01:12:59] Speaker B: Yeah, really pull it. Pull it out to me. [01:13:01] Speaker C: Jason, I know you feel sad. I know you are worried. And you are right to feel that way. It's all true. [01:13:18] Speaker B: Wow. Anything, Any. Anything else, Jimmy? Anything else before you. You leave Mark's vessel? [01:13:26] Speaker C: I endorse Donald Trump for his presidency. He's gonna do great job. [01:13:35] Speaker B: Wow. Okay. [01:13:37] Speaker A: Get out. Vile spirit. [01:13:40] Speaker B: Really good. [01:13:41] Speaker A: Maybe put the time code for this on the blog. People are gonna want to skip that. [01:13:49] Speaker B: I don't think they will. Really? Really nice chatting with Jimmy. Really good insights out there. How's your voice? [01:13:58] Speaker A: I'm not doing that again. [01:14:01] Speaker B: All right, well, we're gonna need to. Need to find a new connection to, you know, the other side. [01:14:09] Speaker A: Leaves me drained. Have you never been to a medium or a spiritualist? It's the feeling afterwards, the draining afterwards. It is real. It's legitimate clairvoyance. Fatigue is a real thing and I'm going through it right now and I don't feel as though you care. [01:14:23] Speaker B: No, I. Listen, I appreciate everything that you do here. I know. I know how much it wears on your. Your body and your soul. So thank you for doing that for. For me and for our listeners. [01:14:34] Speaker A: Good. Are you reading the Reformatory, by the way? [01:14:38] Speaker B: I have it downloaded. I haven't started it yet. [01:14:40] Speaker A: Okay, just checking. [01:14:42] Speaker B: I am excited about it though. [01:14:44] Speaker A: Good. [01:14:45] Speaker B: Let's get into what we watched. [01:14:47] Speaker A: Alright, let's do it. Because Slim Pickens, outside of Time Cop do listen. This isn't a bit by the way, do watch Time Cop, listeners. It is. It, it, it. It walks that line that very few major studio pictures walk in. That it is very, very odd. It is a very fucking weird film in a way that so many, I think big pictures try and affect a weirdness and a kind of a left of center vibes. But Time Cop really has it. It's such a strange film dressed up in a kind of a, you know, Bruckheimer kind of clothing. But it's not. It's a really fucking bizarre movie. [01:15:28] Speaker B: Absolutely. So we endorse Time Cop, but we're not gonna get too far into it here because we will spend an hour talking about it on our KO Fi soon. [01:15:37] Speaker A: Now, like I said, Slim Pickens, but the one I do want to mention, right, And I haven't logged it yet because I haven't quite got to the end of it. It won't come as any surprise to you to hear that I've watched Evil Dead 2 recently. [01:15:52] Speaker B: Okay, okay, sure. Yep. [01:15:55] Speaker A: But, but the, the reason that I was so eager and gleeful to watch Evil Dead 2. I love Evil Dead 2. It's perfect. But I came across a torrent of what purported to be an extended cut. Oh, okay, right. [01:16:12] Speaker B: Mm. [01:16:13] Speaker A: And again, you know, it's one of my, One of my little things, one of those little things about me. If you can show me a cut of a movie that I love with a couple of extra bits in it, fuck. I will go head over heels for. [01:16:26] Speaker B: That and you'll notice too. [01:16:28] Speaker A: Oh, a hundred percent, A hundred percent. But the bits. And this is exactly what it purports to be, an extended cut of Evil Dead 2. And it's got some extra two minutes. More than two minutes of extra bits in it. [01:16:40] Speaker B: That's a good amount. [01:16:41] Speaker A: Yeah, it is, it is. And it's all stuff. It's all stuff that I knew was out there, but I never seen. Right. [01:16:48] Speaker B: Wow. [01:16:49] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wonderful stuff. A real find. I vividly remember a Fangoria article from when I was a kid, or it might have been Dark side magazine one or the other that had photos from Evil Dead 2 that weren't in the fucking film. [01:17:06] Speaker B: Right. It's like when you watch a trailer and it's like there's like a scene in it and then it comes out and you're like, where was it exactly for that? [01:17:14] Speaker A: Exactly this? And I, I, you know, it had always been like a shard in the back of my mind where the fuck they got that version of Evil Dead 2. Was it a screener that they had? Was it a pre release cut that they saw? And at fucking last I've seen a version of Evil Dead 2 that has those bits put in. Now the, the bits that I've added are really bad quality, right. They are obviously from dailies or rushes or whatever and they've been inserted into the film. You know, the, the, the transfer that I watch is, is 1080. It's a lovely, lovely, lovely. It's a. I've always thought you've led to. In, in 4K and in high Def was a lovely film. The blood is beautifully, you know, the, the slick kind of. It's a wet film and the fluids look really shiny and you can see beautiful detail on the cloth and some of the latex special effects. You can see the craft behind them, you know, and I love all that. So it's quite jarring when you cut to the extended material and it's, you know, a scan of a scan of a scan of a vhs, right? [01:18:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:18:15] Speaker A: But it's there, you know, shots of the fantastic bit where the Deadites reveal themselves and you've got Henrietta in the cellar and you've got Edd starts to levitate and they do that wonderful fucking bit of dialogue. We are the things that were and shall be again. [01:18:33] Speaker C: We want what is yours. [01:18:34] Speaker A: Life. And Ash runs off and help us, you filthy coward. And he's gone to grab an axe, obviously, because he's fucking Ash Williams, you know. [01:18:42] Speaker B: Sure. [01:18:43] Speaker A: And he has at Ed with the axe and there's a couple of shots of Ed's fucking head cut in half. And the half of the head is on the floor and it's an animatronic and the eye is moving around in this chunk of his face. Head on the floor. Brilliant. There's another sequence where Linda, he's in the cabin on his own and Linda's head falls into his lap out of nowhere and she's talking to him. There's this entirely removed animatronic. Well, not even animatronic like a puppet special effect sequence where like a demon tongue shoots out of her mouth into Ash's mouth and. And he does his slapstick thing, wrestling with this fucking rubber special effect. And it's look for a fucking absolute evil Dead Die Hard. And I'm looking right now at pieces chunks of the one true cabin on top of my fucking cupboard over there. You know, I love this fucking film. It's the best fucking film. So to see a version of it that I'd never seen before really is fucking special as fuck to me. Love that. Yep, it was great. [01:19:45] Speaker B: Ah, that's so delightful. [01:19:47] Speaker A: Honestly, I can't stress enough. And so that means that now some of my all time favorite movies. RoboCop and now exists in its one true form. I've got those extra fucking eight seconds of A Nightmare on the street back, you know what I mean? A couple of minutes of extra Evil Dead 2 in my life. And it matters, right? This is shit that fucking matters to me. Seeing the fullest versions of the fucking works. I love. And look. Alright, yeah, I can hear what you're saying, but Mark, they were probably cut for a reason, weren't they, Mark? Yes, and that's true. But the fact that. The very fact that they exist out there without having my eyes upon them, I cannot tolerate that. I will not allow it. So it's fantastic that I've been able to see these extra bits of you there, too. I loved it. [01:20:35] Speaker B: Yeah. That's amazing. [01:20:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:20:37] Speaker B: And they probably were cut for, like. Like, gore reasons or something like that anyway, not for, like, artistic reasons. So. [01:20:45] Speaker A: Do you know this? There's one particular shot in there where evil ash takes control and Annie is watching him through the fucking cracks in the door of the cabin. And he walks in this amazing kind of zombie walk that Bruce Campbell does and eats a squirrel, grabs a squirrel off the floor and bites his head off. [01:21:09] Speaker B: Yeah. That's why it's not in the movie. [01:21:11] Speaker A: Not brilliant. [01:21:12] Speaker B: Not because. Amazing. Yeah. [01:21:15] Speaker A: What it is, it's an insight into the truth of the creative process. It's an insight into what they had in mind that didn't quite make it to the. To the. To the full transfer, you know. [01:21:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:21:25] Speaker A: Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful stuff. [01:21:26] Speaker B: Love that. I wonder how the. How, like, how that's been passed along, you know, like, you saw this stuff in Fangoria a million years ago, whatever. But, like, who's had this all along? Who had that cut? [01:21:38] Speaker A: You know, doing a bit of reading, a little bit of Googling, a little bit of poking about. This stuff did make it to, like, a VHS version or a laserdisc version out there somewhere in the past. [01:21:49] Speaker B: Right. [01:21:50] Speaker A: Like some fucking, you know, German edition had this stuff in there. But it's. Yeah. Finally been made available for Internet thieves like me, so that's perfect. Yeah. [01:22:02] Speaker B: Big fan. I did not watch anything that exciting this week. I watched Conclave finally, though, you know, Just kind of been drifting on the periphery of my awareness. [01:22:15] Speaker A: You're on a Pope tip at the minute, aren't you? You're on a pure fucking Catholic thing right now. [01:22:20] Speaker B: By pure happenstance, I mean, I didn't ask them to put out a movie about the Pope right after I went to the Vatican. That was pure happenstance. Just before, I suppose. But, you know, everyone was talking about it, and I am on a surface level interested enough to watch it. [01:22:39] Speaker A: Did you watch. Did you watch. What's it called again? [01:22:43] Speaker B: Conclave. [01:22:44] Speaker A: Conclave. Did you watch it after going through the portal or after seeing the Monk. [01:22:49] Speaker B: Bones and then I watched Conclave? No. [01:22:52] Speaker A: Did you go through the portal? [01:22:54] Speaker B: No, I didn't. It wasn't open yet. When I was there, it literally opened the day I left. Okay. And if you have no idea what we're talking about, listen to last week's episode. But I'm looking at my Hot Priests calendar right now on my wall that I just hung. [01:23:10] Speaker A: I'd like to see a hot priest. [01:23:12] Speaker B: Well, I've got 12 of them for you, so I'll send. I'll send you a picture. But no, I have, like. No. [01:23:21] Speaker A: Okay. [01:23:22] Speaker B: No, I think these are, like, actual priests. I think makes it infinitely funnier than it being, like, hot priests, like firemen calendars, or, like, they are legitimately just attractive priests. And I find that hilarious. Yeah. But, yeah, I. When I was, like, 18, I guess I read Angels and Demons, the Dan Brown book. Like, your wife reads those, right? Or read those, or getting that confused with other things. [01:23:49] Speaker A: I mean. I mean. Yeah, we've both read them. Okay. You've read them. [01:23:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:23:53] Speaker A: I wouldn't. It's an overstatement to say that we read them, you know. [01:23:56] Speaker B: Okay, fair enough. I read the one book. I did not know it was connected to anything else. I found it, like, on a bookshelf in our house or something like that when I was 18. And I was fascinated by the idea of the Conclave. And I remember I was driving with Ben to the airport, to the Oakland Airport, and there was traffic, so it took us, like, two hours to get to the airport. And I spent that two hours autistically, info dumping the entire book to him from beginning to end. And so, like, as such, I have, like, a passing. I don't remember anything else that book was about now, but in that one. [01:24:33] Speaker A: Day, I want to say that's the one where the Church gets hold of dark matter. Is that right? [01:24:39] Speaker B: Did they. I don't remember that being a part of it, but maybe I didn't remember there being anything sciency, really, about this book. I just remember the conclave thing and, you know, the black smoke and the white smoke and all that kind of stuff. So that's about as far as my interest in this went. And I was like, that's enough interest to be like, yeah, I'll see what this is about. And this movie is like. It's just something about it is just compelling enough that without being all that exciting or interesting, somehow it rivets you and keeps you watching it, which I think is cool. Like, it. It has a very. You know, as we've talked about many times, I've been watching so many movies from, like, the 90s and stuff like that lately, and it has a feel like that, that kind of like that kind of thriller, talky thriller that you would get, like a courtroom drama type thing. That sort of vibe from the 90s, but with a bunch of cardinals. And then there's like a major plot twist that I did not see coming at all in this movie that was kind of. [01:25:44] Speaker A: Oh, that's surprising in itself. [01:25:46] Speaker B: Yeah, right. Like, seriously, I spent this moment being like, where is this thing going here? And when it went, totally did not see it coming. But not in a way that's like, come on. Like, it was like, no, that, that feels fine. And earned. [01:26:04] Speaker A: I mean, I, I was, you know, younger, far younger when I read the Da Vinci Code. I haven't read Angels and Demons or anything else Dan Brown has done, but even younger me at the time, even a young, impressionable, naive me. Me at the time, I remember vividly thinking, well, this is, this is for simpletons. You know what I mean? This is. [01:26:22] Speaker B: I like, yeah, I'm sure. I mean, like I said, I was 18 when I read it. So it's, you know, a child reading this book. And I think my perception of it was like, this is like, you know, it's the stuff you pick up at the grocery store checkout. [01:26:37] Speaker A: Exactly. [01:26:37] Speaker B: Supposed to challenge you in any way. You know, I've never seen any of the movies. I've never read any of the other books. Books. It was just that one day that I sat and read that book and yeah, it was just, I. I thought Concleave, Conclave was a good, just sort of solid piece of like intrigue, conspiracy, low key thriller that's super well acted because everyone else, everyone in it is great. And you know, I thought like at the end I was kind of, eh, well, whatever. On. But overall I was like, this was very compelling in a movie that shouldn't be compelling at all. That like, on paper is very boring. And so, you know, big, big props to Conclave for getting past my like, disinterest in it and being. [01:27:26] Speaker A: Yeah, it sounds like you're talking about the kind of movie where the. It gets elevated on screen. The. They do a lot with what they're given. Is that what you said to me? [01:27:37] Speaker B: If it was. Yeah. Done differently, this could be the most boring thing you've ever seen. But it is absolutely the skill with which it's handled that makes this such a good movie. So I quite enjoyed Conclave. If it is in any way in people's wheelhouse, I think you're probably gonna enjoy it. It's kind of exactly what you expect of it. But just Works really well. [01:27:58] Speaker A: Nice, nice. [01:28:00] Speaker B: Yeah. The only other thing that I watched was Lockerbie. Well, sort of. I watched part of it. So it's a miniseries with Colin Firth. [01:28:12] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:28:12] Speaker B: About the Lockerbie disaster. I don't know. Tragedy, let's say tragedy, because there's a lot involved in this. I mean, bombing. Yeah, Lockerbie bombing. [01:28:22] Speaker A: I guess Laura is skewed that because she's already solved it. You know what I mean? She's already seen the episode of Air Crash Investigation. It's had pride of place on the kind of the sky homepage on our fucking tv. Oh, Laura Lockerbie, that looks like your kind of thing. No, no, I know, but she's already solved that one. Fiction can add nothing to that one. [01:28:43] Speaker B: Well, yeah, the thing about this is I've considered talking about this as like an open for joag before. I don't know that. I'm sure at the time it had a lot of impact worldwide, but, like, now I don't think any American, like, or a standard, anyone you just, like, act on the street would have any idea what happened here. And even I only knew, like, scant details or whatever. So, like, basically this. For those who don't know what happened, this is the late 80s. [01:29:16] Speaker A: I was just trying. I was just thinking exactly the same thing. I seem to think it between maybe 87, 89. [01:29:22] Speaker B: Yeah. I would say somewhere in that vicinity. [01:29:24] Speaker A: Even as a kid, I vividly remember Lockerbie. It was huge. Huge. [01:29:28] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's horrifying. [01:29:30] Speaker A: Yes. [01:29:30] Speaker B: I only basically knew that there was like a plane that was bombed and went down, which is. As a person who's terrified of flying. That's enough. That's terrifying in and of itself. I did not realize, like, that also it killed a shit ton of people on the ground and like, the impact that all of this had. And so this movie follows the father of one of the victims as he tries to sort of uncover. Get like the government and everyone to. And twa or not twa Panam, to. [01:29:58] Speaker A: Acknowledge it was 88. [01:30:00] Speaker B: 88. There we go. To acknowledge what happened because basically it was like they had been warned that there was going to be a terrorist attack. And, like, this plane was like, emptier than it should have been because it seems like people knew who were like a part of the company and stuff like that. So why did that happen? And he's trying to uncover what the fuck happened here and have everyone acknowledge what's gone on. And I just found myself as I was watching it being like, I just want to watch A documentary on this. Like, how is this. It's like six episodes. And I was like, how can this be six episodes? And it moves at an absolute snail's pace. Like, there's so much of each episode that's just like slow music and people looking sad. There's even a point in the second episode where like, the wife is talking about how, like, there would have been like 15 seconds that her daughter was aware that things were happening and she slowly, to like this Pan Am represent counts each second. But it's definitely slower than 15 seconds. It's like 1, 2. And they do the whole thing and it's like there's too much of this. So I don't know that I recommend Lockerbie. I mean, it's well acted and all of that stuff, but it was a slog. And I know that there is a documentary from like two or three years ago that unfortunately you can't get here that is like the total be all end. All that aired in your neck of the woods. And I want to watch that instead because it is fascinating. It seems like a really interesting and story. [01:31:40] Speaker A: Even more so in that prosecutions only happened like fucking 35 years later. You know what I mean? It's only. [01:31:47] Speaker B: Just. [01:31:47] Speaker A: Which is why anything like justice has been seen for the perpetrators of that, you know, that it's been an active case for that fucking long. That in itself is incredible, I think. [01:32:00] Speaker B: Yeah, it seems like just a fascinating story. So hopefully maybe I can get you to get it on the plex. Get the documentary. Because it sounds really interesting, but the. I think maybe if you're like more connected to it already, then this would work. I read that, like, the guy who Colin Firth plays is like thrilled with it. Absolutely loves how they portrayed this whole thing. But it was a little. Just a little too slow for me where I was like, I want to know what happened. I am. This is. I think it's hard when it comes to like, true stories like that to watch a miniseries when you're like, I want the facts and I don't necessarily want this dramatized. [01:32:38] Speaker A: I just want to know what happened. What you want is air crash investigation, isn't it? That's what you want. [01:32:42] Speaker B: I want aircraft. I don't want to watch that, though. I don't need the nightmares that that would cause me. I don't want reenactments of what was happening on those on the planet. [01:32:56] Speaker A: The CG recreations are very fun. I've walked in on a few of them and they are afraid. Laugh. [01:33:02] Speaker B: Now there's only one thing that you saw aside from these as well, which I saw last week. [01:33:10] Speaker A: For you and I, disagreements on movies are common, commonplace. [01:33:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Par for the course. [01:33:17] Speaker A: They've become something of a bit between us, haven't they? [01:33:20] Speaker B: Mom and dad are fighting completely. [01:33:25] Speaker A: But I think this occasion, the difference of opinion is more baffling to me than any other heretofore. [01:33:39] Speaker B: It's not to me at all. I don't find this one baffling in the slightest. [01:33:42] Speaker A: I simply cannot understand how you can dismiss this film in the way that you have. [01:33:51] Speaker B: Oh, I could do it all day. All day. [01:33:54] Speaker A: I know, I know. And, and there's a part of me that wants to, to really fucking rise to this, but I'm not gonna. Right? Because it's just a movie. It's just a movie. [01:34:05] Speaker B: Just a movie. [01:34:06] Speaker A: But to me, it is a movie that is so demonstrably beautiful. [01:34:14] Speaker B: Like, if I could see it, I'd agree. [01:34:17] Speaker A: Like the, that we're talking about Nosferatu, just in case. [01:34:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Nosferatu. Sorry, yeah. We did not say it. [01:34:24] Speaker A: I, I. How to put this? Many years back, right, When I watched Transformers in the cinema, right? Michael Bay's Transformers, I was so fucking irritated by this film, Right. I stepped out of the movie and I started objectively looking at the very, the, the various ways in which it was awful. Right? [01:34:50] Speaker B: Right. [01:34:50] Speaker A: And one of the things I found myself doing was counting the lengths of the shots in the film. [01:34:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:34:55] Speaker A: And I couldn't find a single shot that was over like a second and a half long. And it was fucking irksome to me. I found myself doing something similar with Nosferatu, but on a complete. In a completely different way. I challenged myself to find a single shot in this movie that wasn't beautiful. And I simply couldn't. I simply couldn't. Every single shot of this film, and I fucking mean every shot, has either elegant symmetry, the symmetry of the fucking cinematography in this film is pervasive and perfect. It either displays beautiful symmetry or it displays fantastic framing of faces and figures. Shots are built immaculately. The fucking, the, the use of, of shade and light, of color and tone, is everything about this fucking film visually feels pored over and meticulously made as beautiful as possible. [01:36:02] Speaker B: Now, keep in mind that my complaint was not the cinematography, aside from the fact that it's too dark and my eyes burned from trying to focus on anything. But other than that, I did not complain about that. And I said that I was like, you are going to love. [01:36:15] Speaker A: Does that alone not warrant more Than a star, Corrie. [01:36:19] Speaker B: No, does the film. Everything about the rest of the experience is the. [01:36:23] Speaker A: And the fucking diligence that has clearly gone into this film. Not warrant more than a fucking meager star team. [01:36:30] Speaker B: That's what the star is for. And then the rest of this was intolerable to me. I can't. Like, that's how I was like. I mean, that's why I say it doesn't baffle me because we look for very different things when it comes to a movie like this. And for me, like, I am not like the most visual human being on the planet. So while I can appreciate something looking beautiful, that's like 10th place on what I'm looking for in a movie. I want it to be like that. Like you can tell with like, wicked. It being ugly did completely take me out of it. So it's not that it doesn't matter, but everything else distracted me from what it looked like. And the fact, like I said, I could not see. It was so dark in so much of this. That. That was. That was difficult for me. [01:37:21] Speaker A: What else then? Come on. [01:37:22] Speaker B: I mean, the acting is atrocious. It is just. It feels like they're all at a cosplay convention. And that is like nobody feels like they're from the time. It feels like they are from today. Acting like it's then based on what? What do you mean? [01:37:39] Speaker A: How do you know that? How can you say that? Were you there? How do you. [01:37:43] Speaker B: Well, as in, like, it feels artificial, right? Like, it feels like if I were to put on a costume and be like, hello, today it is the 1800s in Germany. And I am definitely a German woman from the 1800s. [01:37:55] Speaker A: All right. What did you rate them up at Christmas Carol? Corey, do you enjoy that? [01:37:58] Speaker B: Of course I'm up at Christmas Carol. It's funny. [01:38:01] Speaker A: Well, that's affected as fuck. It's affected in a very similar way. [01:38:04] Speaker B: They are not trying to act like real people. They are puppets. As opposed to human beings who are trying to embody real people, perhaps. [01:38:13] Speaker A: I don't know if they are, you know, I mean, you've got a melodrama about a fucking vampire as an allegory for fucking shame and the plague. [01:38:21] Speaker B: And I think. [01:38:21] Speaker A: Are they trying to embody real people? [01:38:23] Speaker B: Let's take. Let's take like Willem Dafoe, for example, who is like super over the top bananas in this and that I can get behind because he is clearly doing a thing. Whereas the other ones just feel like inauthentically doing people. [01:38:38] Speaker A: So you don't even Think. You don't even think that there's room in your one star. You don't. Some of the fucking dialogue that Willem Dafoe delivers. Some of the incredible fucking dialogue. [01:38:50] Speaker B: It's delightful. But when it's. I hate every other moment from the rest of the movie. I can't be like, yeah, yeah. No. It's made up for by a single character. It's like, okay, well, I am. Everything else around him is a misery to watch, and I want to not be in this movie theater more than anything I've ever wanted in the world. It's like. It felt interminable. [01:39:14] Speaker A: Is this a bit. [01:39:15] Speaker B: It's not a bit at all. Like I told you, like, this was. I tmy sister said the same thing. She was like, I was considering whether it would be okay to get up and have a cigarette or if that was rude. And then as I was leaving the theater, that, like, everyone else was saying the same thing. It's not a bit. It is absolutely how I felt watching this movie. It just. [01:39:35] Speaker A: You seen things that would make sir Isaac Newton crawl back up into his mother's womb. [01:39:41] Speaker B: And that's one of the things. Like, the tonal confusion in there with, like, someone who is so funny in that role, like, Willem Dafoe. And then, no, you know, it's like a rape drama. The rest of it is, like, not on the. Like, it's not the same thing. Those are two separate movies happening here. And then the other thing is just the way it's. It's structured, where I just wanted to, like, get involved in any scene and get attached to any person. But it is set up that you get, like, two minutes of something, and there's like, next person and next thing happening. Next thing. I was like, I don't give a fuck. It's like, any of these people, right? It's an ensemble, but you can have a full scene without being like, here's one thing that's happening. And then in the middle of it. [01:40:30] Speaker A: Let'S just switch over to somebody again. I don't agree. There was a definite through line with the. The kind of. The financial hard times. [01:40:39] Speaker B: I mean, there's a through line. It's Dracula. I can follow the story. It's Dracula. I wanted to be in a scene long enough for me to care about any of these people. Where it's kind of shortcut for that was like, this character says he can't resist this character. Okay, cool. So I guess they're in love. And these two people, they've just been married So I guess they're in love. Like, you know, these weren't built up characters that you've got to like, know and care about. They're just like, you just understand who they are because it's Dracula. You know this story. And so I get that. But in the movie, I did not. I did not care. You could have slaughtered all of them in one fell swoop at the end of it and I would have been. [01:41:21] Speaker A: Like, okay, it's incredible to me. It's incredible to me when what I saw was a meticulously planned and executed. [01:41:33] Speaker B: Movie where again, I didn't say it's. [01:41:35] Speaker A: Not that clear, crystal clear on why people were doing what they were doing all the way from beginning. [01:41:41] Speaker B: Again, I know this story. It's not that. It's not. [01:41:43] Speaker A: I'm not talking about the story. I'm not talking about the story. I'm talking about why characters act in the way they do. Right? What cause and effect, what is leading to people making the choices that they make. [01:41:53] Speaker B: Right? And that's not what I'm questioning either. The story. [01:41:56] Speaker A: I'm sure that's literally what you just said. [01:41:57] Speaker B: No, no, no, no. I'm saying I want a moment to sit in the story and like, take in what these characters are thinking and feeling and finish a thought and not be like, okay, now let's switch to the next scene that's happening completely somewhere else. You're describing something completely different. [01:42:16] Speaker A: You're describing a choppy, fast paced movie, which this is not. It's nothing but moments. [01:42:21] Speaker B: It is choppy, but it's not fast paced. [01:42:24] Speaker A: No, of course, of course it isn't. But, but you're describing. There's no time to let moments breathe. There's no time to understand people. It's bang, bang, bang, one thing to another. The fucking, the landscape tells you a story. The fucking, the way the characters are fucking situated next to one another tells you a story. [01:42:40] Speaker B: And that's the thing is like, yes, I understand visually these things are like, there, whatever, but that's not, you know, like, I get that. However, I wanted to understand these people on a level beyond simply I am looking at them and I understand what cinema is. So I can read that this, you know, I wanted to actually like, feel that they were being developed in some way. And I just felt like this story didn't let me like sit in any scene because it was always like, it didn't go linearly. Right? Like, and that's again, my complaint is not that this was haphazard or thrown together. I Think it's exactly the movie he wanted to make. It does not work for me because I don't like movies like that, right? Like, I, that is not, I don't want to, like, languish in the scenery, but not have any sense of who people are or whatever. What's most important to me is the characters in something. And if the characters don't feel real and I don't get to see them fleshed out, like, all I get to see this whole movie is like, moving from place to place and Nicholas Holt breathing heavily and crying and Lily Rose Depp screaming and crying and like, you know, all these kinds of things. It's just like, that's not, that's not enough for me to care what's going on in this. Which again is why I say it's not that weird that we see this so differently because we're looking for completely different things in the movie. You, you want to languish in, like, the setting and like, really appreciate, like, oh, this looks this way, and I see the intentionality of the shots. And that's all good and well to me, but I want to engage more with real characters in something than I care about. How well that's all set up. Like, that's great, that's good, but I am like, more invested in a thing this movie was not trying to do, right? Like, it's not that it, it's not that it failed at what it was trying to do. It's that it is not trying to do the thing that I like. That's, that's the difference. [01:44:53] Speaker A: Listen, I hear you loud and clear. I do. But I mean, I, I don't even agree with your, your kind of thesis that the film isn't trying to do that. I, I, I feel as though it's serving us up some pretty well fucking fleshed out characters and having them react to this incredible, unfucking, you know, uncanny supernatural state of affairs. How would you react? You know what I mean? [01:45:24] Speaker B: Again, what is, what is a realistic reaction? That I don't believe that they're people. Like, there's nothing about the way they act that acts like human beings. So their reaction is a moot point. I don't know who they are. This is a couple of people who, my introduction to them is just them screaming, crying and being wet all the time, right? [01:45:41] Speaker A: Like, if you think about Dracula misrepresentation. [01:45:45] Speaker B: If you think about Dracula, right, the beginning of Dracula, you basically have Jonathan Harker writing a food blog, right? And so you get really deeply into like, who is he? What does he think? Think about? What does he care about? You know? And he's writing to Mina, and you understand, like, what is the core of their relationship, right? Like, I. I am invested already in the first 20 pages of Dracula, in this person's entire inner life. That's not. In Nosferatu. You get to. What you get from them is they like to kiss each other. And, like, she's worried about him leaving. And that's not. That's not enough. I don't care. I don't care about just any couple. Right. Like, just that they love with each other is not enough for me. [01:46:37] Speaker A: So you didn't get his ambition. You didn't get his desire to provide for their life together. [01:46:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:46:44] Speaker A: And that's basically everybody having to borrow money from his friends. You didn't get his kind of ambition. [01:46:49] Speaker B: No, I get all of that, but that is that person. [01:46:52] Speaker A: What more? I don't know. What more? I don't know. What fucking more. 1. [01:46:58] Speaker B: I just told you. I want to know their internal life, and that's not in this movie, you know, at least not the way that I want to see it. You know? [01:47:07] Speaker A: Time Cop. Two and a half stars. [01:47:09] Speaker B: I did. I would watch Time Cop every day for my life before watching Nosferatu one more time. [01:47:14] Speaker A: Fuck off. [01:47:15] Speaker B: It's true. I never want to see it again. It was miserable. It was a terrible time, and I was. It felt like it was eight hours long. [01:47:26] Speaker A: Okay. [01:47:30] Speaker B: You get so mad at me when I don't. [01:47:32] Speaker A: I'm not mad. I'm not. No, no, no. Listen. That is not what this is, and I'm not mad. I'm just. I'm. I'm. What's the word? Confounded, I guess. How you could have seen the same movie as I did and been left as wanting as you were. [01:47:51] Speaker B: Mm. I mean, I do feel like. The thing is, I'm confounded, too, is how anyone could watch that and take any enjoyment from it. So, like, I. I understand from the opposite. You didn't even like that as a. [01:48:03] Speaker A: Orlok'S funny little mustache, did you? You didn't even enjoy that. [01:48:06] Speaker B: Like, why does he have a mustache? Why? And why does he sound like Nandor? I just. [01:48:13] Speaker A: So can I just address his voice a little bit? [01:48:16] Speaker B: Yeah, go for it. [01:48:17] Speaker A: Because, you know, there's been dialogue. There's been, you know, talk about. About his fucking choices vocally, and I love that. I love his voice. [01:48:27] Speaker B: I wanted someone to not sound like they needed an inhaler that entire movie. [01:48:32] Speaker A: But that's exactly it. Orlok is a corpse forcing a through dead fast. [01:48:39] Speaker B: I'll give that to him. Nobody else has any excuse. [01:48:41] Speaker A: He's like a bagpipe, essentially, pretending to be a man. He's forcing air through his fucking vocal cords. He doesn't have a voice. He's affecting one. And perfect, perfect, perfect. [01:48:54] Speaker B: Sure, I'll give him that. Although the accent is still stupid. Everybody else needed to calm down for a second. It was like. It didn't matter what the scene was. It was like nothing is happening. And they're like, jesus Christ, Eggers needs. [01:49:11] Speaker A: To fucking calm down. He needs to calm down and stop being such a mad fucking lad. He needs to rein it in for five minutes and stop making bangers. That's where he needs to. He's the only one who needs to calm down because he's making everybody else look stupid. [01:49:24] Speaker B: I'm sure I'll like his next one more. [01:49:27] Speaker A: Plus, I found it funny in the same way I found the lighthouse funny. [01:49:31] Speaker B: Oh, see, I was really hoping it would. It would go lighthouse with it. And it just felt totally like it didn't. It didn't maintain enough of that. It just wasn't even enough for that. [01:49:42] Speaker A: And do you know, I'm even thinking it might get five now I'm really talking it through because I haven't spoken it through with anyone, really. I haven't talked it through with anyone because obviously Laura, you know, not interested. But even the fucking sound design, the slurp gulp when he's hunched over fucking, you know, Nicholas Holt drinking of him and he's slurping and gulping his fucking juices. Just love it. [01:50:07] Speaker B: Also, can I just say, like, amongst the. I said last week about my unintentional laughter at Aaron Taylor Johnson. The other thing that made me laugh unintentionally was the. When he bites the head off of the pigeon, it's just like a clear plastic tube of blood coming out of it. I was like, come on, come on. I can't believe they kept that in the movie. Like that effect didn't work. Just cut it. We get it. [01:50:36] Speaker A: I will not rest until I find the pigeon. Cut Nosferatu. I want to see more pigeon. [01:50:44] Speaker B: I won't rest that one. I wasn't the only one who laughed out loud on that was the whole theater laughed like, what was. Come on, get it together. But okay, I have one thing left for this episode to close us out here. This was a question that came to me before we watched Time Cop, but actually works really well with us having watched Time cop. Okay, so, Mark, say that you are from the past or from the future, one of those things. And you happen upon or create a time machine. [01:51:24] Speaker A: Great. Okay. [01:51:24] Speaker B: And now you're moving through time, buddy. You're landing somewhere else. You get there, and for one reason or another, you encounter someone and you have to convince them that you are, in fact, from a different time. [01:51:41] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [01:51:42] Speaker B: How do you do it? What's your strategy? [01:51:45] Speaker A: All right, this is a great question. Can we just establish parameters? [01:51:49] Speaker B: Yeah, please. [01:51:51] Speaker A: What do I have about my person? [01:51:53] Speaker B: Well, that's. That's up to you. Because I figure wherever you've come from, right, you've planned this. You know, you are going to land somewhere else, and there is the possibility that you are going to have to explain yourself. So what would you. What would you bring? What would help with this process? And I think it makes a difference, too. Let's go. You're from the past to the future and future to the past. Because I think. I think it's easier to convince people you're from the future because you might have a phone in your pocket or something. [01:52:20] Speaker A: Exactly. This, I mean, that's your go to, isn't it? That's the first thing you would go to. If I'm from the past. [01:52:27] Speaker B: Yeah, that's the harder one. How do you convince someone? [01:52:30] Speaker A: How do I convince somebody that I am from the past? Now, if I can plan this out, do I have. Can I have multiple trips back and forth or is it just I'm there in one? [01:52:40] Speaker B: It's just the once. Like, let's say you get there and your time machine malfunctions and you've got this. And let's say. I don't want to say planned, as in like, oh, I just keep a newspaper with the date on it in my pocket. Like, let's say you don't have a bunch of stuff on you you need to explain to someone. [01:53:00] Speaker A: Because if I was. If I was. If I was from the past and I was able to plan this, right, I would make a few trips and tail them throughout different phases of their life and tell them shit only they would know. Only I would know. You know? You know, like when you and I. [01:53:18] Speaker B: Meet them in another time and remember the per. [01:53:21] Speaker A: Remember you have Doctor who. Doctor who does this. You won't be a shock to hear Doctor who does this. Loads of times the doctor just steps out and gives somebody his tie and then goes to the future and goes, obviously, I'm from the past. Remember that guy who gave him your tie? To me. [01:53:34] Speaker B: Right. [01:53:35] Speaker A: But fuck, that is an excellent ex. [01:53:38] Speaker B: So let's say you don't have that kind of planning. You have crashed, your time machine's broken, and now the first person you see or something like that, you have to explain to them, I'm from the past. What evidence do you get? [01:53:52] Speaker A: See, my. My initial assessment of this question, particularly from the past going forward, is that you. You couldn't do it. [01:54:02] Speaker B: Right. I mean, this is like. This is why I thought about it is like, okay, in movies, this is always like the thing, right? They have to figure out how to convince someone. Someone, they are who they say they are. But that's really difficult. What would you do? [01:54:19] Speaker A: Is there. And I'm kind of maybe directing this towards Eileen. Hi, Eileen. Is there a science way of, like, maybe pricking your finger and getting some blood, demonstrating how old you are? [01:54:31] Speaker B: Right. [01:54:32] Speaker A: Yeah. That's the only thing I can think of off the top of my head is, could I. Is there a little strip or a little test, like a blood sugar thing or a skin fucking, you know, decay test that will demonstrate categorically to somebody that I'm from 10 years back? [01:54:51] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. So, okay, a test of some sort, which we don't know if that exists. [01:54:59] Speaker A: I can't bring anything with me, so I couldn't bring, like, a chunk of a building which isn't there anymore. [01:55:05] Speaker B: Mmm. Yeah. Which. I mean, you could get that anywhere, Right. You could have just stolen it from a museum or something. Oh. [01:55:13] Speaker A: I mean, from the future back. That. That is a lot easier. [01:55:17] Speaker B: Or is it. [01:55:19] Speaker A: Or is it. If I can't bring any collateral with me. [01:55:23] Speaker B: Sure. Then I could just, you know, something, right? [01:55:27] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. But if. If I. If some dickhead came up to me and said, I'm from the future, in 10 years, you'll do this. I could just be a very, you know, an author or a fantasist or delusional. [01:55:41] Speaker B: Yeah, well, that's like. You get in, like, back to the future, right? It's like being able to predict, like, the outcome of a baseball game or something like that, you know? So if you could. Or in frequency, you know, the dad is watching the Mets game, and the son is able to tell him what's going to happen in that Mets game that he's watching. So like, potentially, if. So if someone told you the date, you could be like, well, this is going to happen tomorrow, or whatever. If I'm wrong, then, okay, I'm lying, or whatever. You would have to. You'd have to have a good grasp of where you were going for sure. To be able to know. [01:56:22] Speaker A: Yes. [01:56:22] Speaker B: What was going to happen soon enough for someone to be able to tell. [01:56:25] Speaker A: And the ability to. To. To illustrate your point, you'd have to have, like, a TV or a radio or something or. [01:56:31] Speaker B: Or. [01:56:31] Speaker A: Or, like you said, a paper. But it. I can at least conceive of ways it would be possible were I future boy going back. [01:56:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:56:39] Speaker A: Rather than past guy going forward. Because that's tough. That's a tough. [01:56:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Right. That's a difficult one. Like. Because anything that you. Yeah. Anything that you have, theoretically, you could get from somewhere. Right. Like you could rob a museum or something like that. Like, there's no way to say, oh, I have this. And. And it could only be from me having come from that time, like something. [01:57:05] Speaker A: That had been completely obliterated. [01:57:08] Speaker B: Mm. [01:57:10] Speaker A: But not, you know, how do you prove it? I can only think of how could you demonstrate that with your own physical self? And is there. I'm sure there must be a way of a little test you can carry around in your pocket, you know, that'll measure your age. [01:57:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:57:26] Speaker A: Fuck. There's probably not, is there? [01:57:28] Speaker B: I don't. I doubt that that is a thing. If that were a thing, I feel like it'd be a lot easier to tell. Like, they would need dental records and shit to identify people when they died or whatever. Hmm. Well, I guess. But they do know when. No, that's like decompensation, stuff like that. This was in the book as well. [01:57:46] Speaker A: Why'd you ask? What would you do then? [01:57:48] Speaker B: Oh, I didn't have, like, an answer for it necessarily. That's why I asked, because I thought this was really interesting. Like, especially from the past to the future. Like, if you acted like you didn't know, like, if you didn't know what stuff was, people could think you were just putting on an act. Like, of course you know what this thing is or whatever. Like, there'd be. No. It'd be really hard to demonstrate that you genuinely don't know things or that you were like. I guess maybe if you were time traveling and you knew. You knew you were time traveling. I guess there could be things that people don't know about today that you could bring up that maybe someone could research and find or something like that. But you'd have to know what people don't know now. [01:58:41] Speaker A: Like. Like something obscure about, you know, geopolitics in another country or share prices or, you know, weather patterns. [01:58:51] Speaker B: Weather patterns. Or, you know, one of the. Another thing. I think frequency does this probably pretty well, too. But again, it's like he knows. So he. The dad shoves something under, like a floorboard. [01:59:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:59:08] Speaker B: That the son lives in in the past so that nobody's touched that in all those years. And then when he pulls up the floorboard, the stuff is there from the past. So potentially, like, if you left something somewhere in the past that someone could dig up, like a time capsule and be like, this has clearly been untouched for. [01:59:27] Speaker A: That's a good idea. [01:59:29] Speaker B: That might be. That might be the ticket you have to prepare by putting a time capsule somewhere and someone being able to find that it has been untouched. [01:59:39] Speaker A: Far more difficult, though, is if, you know, if I'm sat here in my living room and a fucking vortex opens and sends me, you know, to 20, 28. [01:59:49] Speaker B: Yes. [01:59:50] Speaker A: Fuck. [01:59:51] Speaker B: Then what? [01:59:53] Speaker A: Pinky promise. That's all you got. [01:59:56] Speaker B: He gets snapped or whatever. I don't know. It's a. It's a thought that we probably will never have to deal with, but maybe we will. Maybe someday a vortex will open up and zap us into the future. And what are we gonna do to let people know, come from the past? Well, help fixing our time machine or whatever. [02:00:17] Speaker A: Bold of you to assume there'll be a future. That's what I would say. [02:00:21] Speaker B: It's probably, you know, best case scenario is to be going backwards. I don't know what, you're, like, the best one to go to, but that's. That's a whole other question. What year? All right, if you were to time travel any year, if you could go. [02:00:36] Speaker A: Only forward, what would. Where would you go? Because anything past, like, 40, 50 years, it's gonna be grim as fuck. [02:00:43] Speaker B: Right? [02:00:43] Speaker A: And anything lower than that, what's the point? [02:00:45] Speaker B: Right? Well, and even like, okay, let's say you want to get to the most optimal year. The end of the world is coming, right? 30 years. If we don't figure shit out, we're at 3C and everything has gone to shit. So things are getting worse or whatever in the years that have happened. If you're. If it's 2060, 2050, and everything is going to hell, what year do you go back to to have the least fucked up life? [02:01:17] Speaker A: Well, that's very objective for me. It's somewhere in the mid-90s, I think, when everything was awesome, music was great, I had a snes. [02:01:32] Speaker B: Is that how you say it, or is that how other people say it? [02:01:36] Speaker A: Well, snes. [02:01:37] Speaker B: Snes, yes. Is that a you thing, or do. [02:01:39] Speaker A: You have Super Nintendo Entertainment System, commonly known as the snes? Over here? Yeah. [02:01:43] Speaker B: I've never heard anyone say it like that. I figured out what you were saying, just, you know, by process of elimination or whatever. I've never heard anyone say it like that. [02:01:55] Speaker A: Oh, that's nice. I would certainly pick the mid-90s. [02:02:00] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean that's like on the one hand, being like a kid at that time. It was a good time to be a kid. But then I think about like the 2000s. Like I guess you could stay in a year maybe that would be like. Because the 2000s were terrible. So like I wouldn't want to do that again. [02:02:17] Speaker A: It's like for you or generally. [02:02:20] Speaker B: Generally, yeah. 2000s were a God awful time. But like to be a woman, particularly a woman or girl is a terrible time. And you got, yeah, Iraq war and all kinds of shit happening at that point. It's not great for most people, but there's a book by Kurt Vonnegut called Timequake. Have you ever read that? [02:02:43] Speaker A: No, I haven't read Time Quake. I've read a bunch of his other stuff, but not Time Quake. [02:02:46] Speaker B: It's a horrifying premise. In Timequake there is this thing he calls a timequake and it causes everyone to relive the last 10 years of their life. But they can't change anything. So they're aware that they're reliving the last 10 years, but they have to, their bodies, everything just goes through the motions of what they did the last time. So all the same mistakes that they made, everything going on in the world, nothing can be changed. They just have to relive that time over again. Truly, truly awful concept. Which also causes, you know, when time picks back up again. Everyone has gotten so used to being on autopilot that like everyone who's driving and things like that just like crashes their car because they're not used to like being in control of their lives. Over the past decade. [02:03:39] Speaker A: I think on balance that wouldn't be all that bad. There would be, there would be downers. But. [02:03:47] Speaker B: To be trapped, unable to, unable to change anything. [02:03:52] Speaker A: Yeah, the being locked in bit, that, that would be horrible. But most of the last 10 years wasn't so bad for me. [02:03:58] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. Like it's not a bad time. I just wouldn't necessarily want to just like live it on autopilot. [02:04:05] Speaker A: Yeah. As an observer, as a passive kind of. [02:04:08] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. Friends let us know two, two things. If you were from the past, how would you convince. [02:04:16] Speaker A: Prove it. [02:04:17] Speaker B: A modern person, how do you prove it? And if you are living in 2050 and the world is going to shit. What year would you travel back to to try to have the best rest of your life that you possibly could? [02:04:35] Speaker A: Such loaded questions, such insight, Corrigan. Very nice. Very nice. And I would. I would close off by saying, look, yes, it's fucking cold and dark and dreary, but we'll get through it together. You, me, Corey, we're gonna do this, and we're gonna do it with style. [02:04:59] Speaker B: That's right, we are. God damn it. Go ahead and stay spooky. [02:05:03] Speaker A: Stay spooky.