Ep. 198: medical murder & space capitalists

[00:00:03] Speaker A: So when you think of the. When you think of the big names, you know, the celebrities, the. The stars in the field of medical malpractice and murder, you know your big names. You got your Harold Shipman. [00:00:20] Speaker B: Sure. [00:00:21] Speaker A: Yeah. My personal favorite, by the way. You've got your Beverly Allett. Of course, in the states, you've got Michael Swango. Does that name ring a bell? [00:00:31] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I think I talked about him during our hospital hill. [00:00:35] Speaker A: There you go. There you go. In France, you've got a physician, serial killer Marcel Bito. To those names, I would love to add Nielse Hergel. [00:00:50] Speaker B: Hergel. [00:00:51] Speaker A: Hergel. H O. Umlaut. G E L for. Nielsen is german. [00:00:58] Speaker B: I could have guessed that. Yeah. [00:01:00] Speaker A: Yeah. Let me talk to you. You're. This one's a fucking absolutely insane case, and I'm gonna tell you all about it. Um. [00:01:07] Speaker B: Oh, please do. [00:01:08] Speaker A: I'll tell you all about Niels Hergel. He was born in West Germany, a town called Wilhelm. Wilhelmshaven. Wilhelmshaven. Wilhelm Schaven. [00:01:21] Speaker B: I feel like you nailed it. I think we're getting further away. [00:01:26] Speaker A: Wilhelm Schaven. Now, Niels. Interesting, interesting, interesting. One of these cases, right? One of these cases that are all the more fascinating, all the more grimly fucking gripping because you can't find the root cause. You don't know where this came from. Right, right. [00:01:45] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:01:47] Speaker A: The medical profession was in his family, right? So his father worked as a nurse, his grandmother. [00:01:52] Speaker B: What year are we talking about here? [00:01:55] Speaker A: We are talking. Our story begins late eighties, nineties. Okay, okay. Like I said, medical profession in his family, in his blood. His dad was a nurse, his grandma was a nurse, his mother was a. His mother was in the legal profession, a paralegal. But no evidence of trauma in this childhood. Okay, okay. No evidence of any abuse of any kind. By his own admission, in his own words, his childhood was sheltered, was protected. He was exposed to nothing that would damage, nothing that would set young nils on the fucking path that he ended going down. No, psychological indicators point us towards what he was gonna become. Right? [00:02:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:46] Speaker A: Now, he followed in his father's footsteps, completed his training, his vocational training in 1997 at Shankt Villahad Hospital. And it was there that he became a nurse and continued working there until 1999. Right. When Niels transferred to a nearby hospital in a town called Oldenburg. 1999. Okay. [00:03:12] Speaker B: Okay. [00:03:13] Speaker A: And things went south quite quickly. [00:03:19] Speaker B: Uh oh. [00:03:21] Speaker A: As soon as August of 2001, Nils was a part of a meeting that was called at this hospital in Oldenburg with nurses, doctors, orderlies. The topic of the meeting was an unusually high an abnormally high rate of both deaths and emergency resuscitations at the hospital. [00:03:50] Speaker B: Okay. [00:03:51] Speaker A: Okay. [00:03:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:53] Speaker A: You see where this might be heading, I'm sure, Corrigan. [00:03:56] Speaker B: Yes, I certainly, certainly do. [00:03:59] Speaker A: Statistically anomalous spike in the number of patients who had flatlined and who needed to be brought back from the brink in the previous few months before August 2001. Now, interesting to me that absolutely no scrutiny seemed to fall on Niels at this point. On him or on his work, even though some 60% of these incidents had happened while he was on duty. [00:04:32] Speaker B: I mean, 60%. It's not like it's every single. Well one. [00:04:36] Speaker A: Of course. What's the. What's the. The thought experiment? The Texan shooting at the barn. Have you heard that one? This. This has been cited a few times in. In the Lucy letbe. If you got a guy shooting fucking bullets at a barn and he's a shit, aima, the barn is peppered with bullet holes. You could draw a circle after the fact and find load of bullet holes in the one place. Oh, hello. Something's going on. But yes, be that as it may, right. Um. 60% of these incidents while her was on duty. But no scrutiny. No scrutiny fell upon him. Even though. Even though right after this meeting was called in 2001, he took three months off on sick leave and the incidents stopped. The incidents absolutely plummeted during that time that he was off. The three months he was out, only two patients flatlined in the ward he worked at. [00:05:30] Speaker B: It's a risky move on his part. Well, I know that I've been causing a whole bunch of excess deaths and I'm gonna take myself out of this. [00:05:38] Speaker A: Yep. [00:05:39] Speaker B: So that the pattern is clear. [00:05:41] Speaker A: By his own admission, later on, he thought that the game was up for. [00:05:44] Speaker B: Him then, but he did it anyway. [00:05:47] Speaker A: But he did it. [00:05:48] Speaker B: But I really need a vacation. [00:05:49] Speaker A: But he did it anyway. [00:05:51] Speaker B: All this killing got me all wound up. [00:05:53] Speaker A: Yep. [00:05:53] Speaker B: I gotta go to Bulgaria. [00:05:56] Speaker A: Bulgaria, did you say? [00:05:58] Speaker B: Interesting choice, Bulgaria. I know, interesting choice, right. For a vacation. [00:06:04] Speaker A: Not sure what you're referring there. Anyway, look, three months pass, Hergel returns from leave, and, you know, suspicions are being raised, right? The head physician at that point, the head of the hospital that he worked at in Oldenburg, moves him from the cardiology ward where he worked at previously, to the anesthesiology ward now. Fascinatingly, it's during this time that colleagues of his subsequently recalled that he earned the nickname resuscitation Rambo. Yep. Resuscitation Rambo. You got that nickname. [00:06:44] Speaker B: They called him that in english at this german hospital. [00:06:48] Speaker A: I. Rambo. Yes. I don't know what resuscitated. Resuscitation, Steiner. I don't fucking know. [00:06:53] Speaker B: Okay? [00:06:54] Speaker A: Because of his way of pushing people aside and just steam in the fucking. Whenever there was somebody who'd flatlined, never fear, Nils is here. Bringing people back from the brink. People who'd crashed. Everybody get out of the way. I got this. It became clear something was awry. Okay. Um. The head of the anesthesiology department became quite suspicious. His interest was piqued in how Hergel always seemed to be present when emergencies happened. Finally, in 2002, the head doctor confronted Niels after his patients kept flatlining and kept needing to be brought back, seemingly always when he was on shift. Now, this is where it starts to leave a real fucking nasty taste in the mouth. Nils was given the choice to either resign with three months full pay or to just transfer to another part of the hospital. [00:07:51] Speaker B: Well, this is always the solution, isn't it? Yeah, just. Just move along. [00:07:57] Speaker A: Get off our doorstep. [00:07:58] Speaker B: I don't want this to be our problem anymore. We'll write you a really good recommendation. We will not mention the resuscitation. [00:08:04] Speaker A: Sorry, are you looking at my notes? He was given the option to either transfer or to resign. A month or so later, the director of nursing at the hospital gave him exactly this. A reference letter. And I'm gonna quote the reference letter stated that his work ethic was circumspect, diligent and autonomous. [00:08:26] Speaker B: That's one way of putting it. [00:08:28] Speaker A: In a roundabout way. [00:08:29] Speaker B: He sure works on his own, that's for sure. [00:08:33] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. He uses initiative. Also said that he had performed prudently and in an objectively correct manner in critical situations. Yeah. [00:08:42] Speaker B: Okay. [00:08:43] Speaker A: The letter closed. [00:08:44] Speaker B: It doesn't say who started the critical situation. [00:08:46] Speaker A: The letter closed by stating that he had worked at all times to the utmost satisfaction, even though. Even though at this point, at least 35 patients had died around him at. [00:09:00] Speaker B: This stage, and they know that it is a pattern that is problematic. [00:09:07] Speaker A: Yep. [00:09:08] Speaker B: Like, this is a forced transfer because there was a problem. [00:09:14] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know if this. I don't know if this was a force transfer or something he'd done voluntarily. That much isn't clear. But he was given a glowing reference letter and told to basically, yeah, you can quit with some full pay for a little bit, or we'll move you around. [00:09:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:29] Speaker A: At this point, he decided to transfer. He decided to transfer using that letter as reference to another hospital in Delmenhorst in December 2022, and almost fucking immediately immediately, emergencies and fatalities began piling up once again while he's on shift. [00:09:51] Speaker B: Clarification here. These patterns begin to emerge in 2001. [00:09:57] Speaker A: Yes. [00:09:58] Speaker B: And it's 2022, and we are now dealing with this. [00:10:04] Speaker A: Oh, stay. I mean, please stay tuned. 2002 was when he transferred. Not 2022. 2002. [00:10:11] Speaker B: I thought you said 2022. I was like, I may have done. [00:10:14] Speaker A: If I did, I apologize. Let us. [00:10:17] Speaker B: All right, all right, all right. Let us listen to 2002. [00:10:19] Speaker A: But in the interest of clarity, 2002. [00:10:24] Speaker B: Is what I thought I asked because I was fucking Alice. Been murdering people. [00:10:29] Speaker A: Just literally. But as I say, the pattern starts up immediately. Straight away, fatalities, emergencies, begin piling up. The mo was cardiac arrhythmia. Okay, okay, sure. Uh, you know, unusual heart rhythms, blood pressure crashes, and just fucking flat out mystery deaths were just following him around. Um, while he was in diamond host, his colleagues began pulling away from him. Suspicions started being reported to superiors. But nothing gets acted on, right? Nothing gets acted on, despite. Despite evidence. Actual evidence started to pile up. Empty vials of a reagent called agmeline were found in his ward, despite no official prescriptions for agmeline having been prescribed to any of his patients. Agmoline, by the way, is a. It's a testing agent for heart conditions that can induce cardiac arrhythmia. Yeah, but nothing was done that would. [00:11:30] Speaker B: Add up at this point. Like, clearly there's bottles of this being left around. Like, he's. He is so he knows nobody gives a shit and is getting sloppy. [00:11:39] Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly this. [00:11:42] Speaker B: Yeah, they're gonna talk, but, like, nobody's. [00:11:44] Speaker A: Gonna do anything about it. Exactly this. And nothing at all was done right up to 2005. Right. So he's merrily just inducing flatlines in people. Killing people. People are dying left, right, and center. [00:11:59] Speaker B: Are they, like, is there any demographic to this? Like, I know a lot of them kill, like, old people, so nobody notices. You know diabetics. [00:12:08] Speaker A: Great questions. Great question. None at all. [00:12:11] Speaker B: Just anybody. [00:12:13] Speaker A: Victims from 35 all the way up to the nineties, seemingly picked at random. Absolutely no preference for, like, someone comes. [00:12:22] Speaker B: In with a broken leg, and it's like, oh, arrhythmia. [00:12:25] Speaker A: Exactly. Oh. Ah, well, all the way. Fucking resuscitation. Rambo is here right up until 2005. In the meantime, he's got married in 2004. He's had a daughter that summer. He is somebody who had developed alcohol and painkiller addictions during that time. But attracted. [00:12:47] Speaker B: Absolutely. That's a really good addition to psychopathy. [00:12:52] Speaker A: I swear. And I do encourage you to go take a look at the guy okay. You know, not to want to profile or stereotype or anything like that, but. [00:13:00] Speaker B: Oh, no, just. How did you spell it again? [00:13:05] Speaker A: That's Niels. N I e l s. Uh huh. Hogel. H o g e l h o. [00:13:14] Speaker B: G e. Did I just say h? [00:13:17] Speaker A: You did. [00:13:19] Speaker B: Oh, he looks. He looks like a mobster. Like, he looks like a mobster from New York. Yeah. [00:13:28] Speaker A: One of our boot rolls. Fucking team still, right? [00:13:31] Speaker B: Exactly. Not the person I was expecting. Look at this guy. Like, of course he's killing folks. Were they just afraid he was gonna get his fate? Like, if someone told his family was gonna knock him off or. [00:13:44] Speaker A: Well, look, just on his daughter, briefly. His daughter being born whilst on trial, because on trial, he found himself, which I'll go into in a sec. But he admitted. He admitted to, quote, sustained this euphoria, this feeling of happiness after the birth of his daughter, he admitted to have injected a patient with. Basically killed somebody on his first night on duty after his daughter's birth. [00:14:10] Speaker B: It's like. It's a celebration. [00:14:13] Speaker A: Okay. [00:14:14] Speaker B: Mazel Tovdenhe. Some of us were like, oh. Like, we've just had a wonderful, momentous occasion. I'm going to have a cupcake. [00:14:22] Speaker A: Let's keep this going. [00:14:23] Speaker B: I'm going to really spoil. I'm going to be bad tonight. I'm going to have two desserts. [00:14:27] Speaker A: Just keep this going. [00:14:28] Speaker B: I'm going to be bad tonight. I'm going to kill a stranger. [00:14:31] Speaker A: Kill a guy. Yeah. But the murder train ground to a halt in 2005. June 2005. And do you know what finally did for him? Do you know what finally derailed him? [00:14:46] Speaker B: He was drunk on the job. [00:14:48] Speaker A: Nope. He was fucking caught red handed. [00:14:51] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:14:52] Speaker A: Squeezing Agmalene into a patient's heart syringe pump. He was fucking caught in the act. [00:14:58] Speaker B: It's only a matter of time. [00:14:59] Speaker A: It was, yes. [00:15:00] Speaker B: But too long. [00:15:02] Speaker A: Too long, I'm gonna say too long. So 1999 till 2005 was his reign of mischief. [00:15:09] Speaker B: And all while people, like, basically knew. [00:15:12] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. You've got that big vibe of it being an open secret. [00:15:15] Speaker B: Much the same. [00:15:16] Speaker A: Do you remember the vibe from Harold Shipman, the documentary that we watched? [00:15:19] Speaker B: That fucking knew? Yeah. It's like. It's the opposite of Lucy Letbe. We're like, everyone at the time was like, this is abs. There's no reason to think she has anything to do with this. And then in hindsight, like, yeah, she. Yeah, I definitely did all this stuff. Like, everybody knew this whole time that he was doing it, it was like, I don't know what are the labor laws or whatever in Germany that just couldn't fire the dude. So bananas. [00:15:52] Speaker A: I mean, the figures are incredible, right? He was arrested in 2005, summer of 2005. As soon as he was arrested, then of course, colleagues start coming forward, you know, to voice their suspicions. Huge, massively high profile police investigation which focused on all deaths at that hospital between 2003 and 2005. And the tale of the tape, the stats. The number of deaths at the Delmenhorst clinic doubled during his employment there. [00:16:23] Speaker B: Wow. [00:16:24] Speaker A: And in 2005, it was. It was kind of worked out that 73% of all deaths at that hospital could have been connected to his work schedule. 73% of all deaths at that hospital were linked. Happened when he was on shift. [00:16:43] Speaker B: Wow. [00:16:44] Speaker A: The numbers are fucking bonkers. Initially, right. Initially, Niels only saw trial for the patient that he was caught red handed injecting. Right. A 63 year old patient that he was caught doing. But the high, massively high profile trial led to a special team being set up. The cardiac investigation with a k, obviously, because it's german, naturally. He got his first life sentence in 2015 for two murders. But the investigation carried on while he was inside, of course. Mass exhumations all across Europe, Poland, Turkey. More than 130 bodies were exhumed. [00:17:28] Speaker B: Did he work in those places or. It was like patients were from. [00:17:31] Speaker A: This was. Yeah, exactly. This is just where patients were repatriated. [00:17:34] Speaker B: So they brought their bodies home. [00:17:35] Speaker A: This was all at two hospitals. His. His reign of fucking, you know, skullduggery. [00:17:40] Speaker B: Just crazy because it's like there are other, you know, when we talked about this in our hospital hell series. [00:17:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:47] Speaker B: It's like this being passed around things so no one had to deal with. It was common. [00:17:51] Speaker A: Yes. [00:17:52] Speaker B: But, like, usually it's like, yeah, this person worked at like six, seven, 8910 hospitals because each one was like, it seems like this person's killing people and, like, moved them on somewhere else for it to be two. And they were just like, accepting that people were dying like that and like, nobody. Nobody even trying to pass the buck. Just like, meh. [00:18:11] Speaker A: It's fine, isn't it? Such a common trait of medical malpractice cases. Police malpractice cases. Just closing ranks. Just. [00:18:20] Speaker B: Right, yeah. [00:18:21] Speaker A: Say nothing. [00:18:22] Speaker B: A mix of. Yeah, a mix of just like, covering for someone and I don't want to do the paperwork. [00:18:27] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Completely. [00:18:29] Speaker B: And it's like, obviously it comes from, like, the higher ups in this case, like, as opposed to cops, where it's usually just everybody. But, like, you know, if he gets in trouble, then I might get in trouble for things. But it's like often it feels like people working do report it. [00:18:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:48] Speaker B: And then the higher ups are just like, we do not want that headache. [00:18:52] Speaker A: Yep. Or, you know, I don't want to be seen as a troublemaker. [00:18:56] Speaker B: Right. [00:18:56] Speaker A: I've got a career to think of, you know, I've got a career to think of. I'm gonna fucking. I'm not gonna. I'm just gonna keep my head down. [00:19:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Not gonna make waves. [00:19:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:03] Speaker B: Just gonna. [00:19:04] Speaker A: So while all that's going on, while ranks are being closed and waves aren't being made, a second trial. Right. Hurgel sat a second trial that started in 2018 where charges were brought for another hundred. [00:19:22] Speaker B: I'm sorry, I had just taken a sip of soda and nearly spat it back. [00:19:26] Speaker A: Another hundred murders. [00:19:27] Speaker B: Another hundred. [00:19:29] Speaker A: They, uh. He was acquitted of 14. Confessed. [00:19:34] Speaker B: How did they. Because they. [00:19:36] Speaker A: Yeah, well, look. [00:19:37] Speaker B: Confessed. [00:19:38] Speaker A: Oh, he confessed to another 40. Uh, he confessed to another 43. And then in 52 of these cases, he just said that he plain couldn't remember. [00:19:46] Speaker B: I've killed so many folks. [00:19:48] Speaker A: You know what I mean? [00:19:49] Speaker B: Might've been. [00:19:50] Speaker A: But I mean, a lot of these bodies, a lot of other potential victims had been cremated. A lot of the exhumed bodies had rotted like fuck. He couldn't get forensic evidence from time passes, evidence decays, right. But he sang to 43, 52. He said, I don't really know. I can't remember. Um, by November 2016. Okay. Uh, authorities were able to prove 37 conclusively to him between 2002 and 2005. That was revised and increased to 106 by 2017. [00:20:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:31] Speaker A: And he was finally convicted. Finally convicted of 85 murders in 2019. [00:20:36] Speaker B: Although privately, not really any coming back from that. [00:20:39] Speaker A: Well, not at all privately, he admitted 100. The german court invoked a particular clause called severe gravity of guilt, essentially eliminating any fucking chance of parole. [00:20:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm sure. [00:20:54] Speaker A: And when you account for families, anecdotal evidence, suspicions, suspicious deaths that couldn't be, you know, conclusively attributed to him. The police suspect that the final death toll is more than 200. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. A family victims spokesperson group reckon it could even be as high as 300. And he is now widely regarded as the worst serial killer in peacetime german history. [00:21:29] Speaker B: It's an unfortunate caveat to have to. [00:21:33] Speaker A: Make. [00:21:35] Speaker B: That is absolutely wild. It makes you. I mean, that's the thing. Obviously, we talked about this a lot, but, you know, you just kind of. You. You're so vulnerable when anything happens to you. You know, whenever you go to the hospital for any form of injury or illness, you were really kind of at the mercy of whoever is there. And you want to believe that they're all, like, super into that hippocratic oath and stuff like that, but, like, at this point, there are enough terrible nurses on TikTok to know that a lot of these people are fucking assholes. Well, at best, let alone what else they could do to you. [00:22:17] Speaker A: Not to wanna, you know, continually invoke Joag rule number one. But, you know, say it with me. Say it with me, Cory. Joag rule number one. You are not safe. [00:22:29] Speaker B: Just not safe. [00:22:36] Speaker A: That sounds like one of his victims might have sounded oh, no on the way, Terry, but in a german accent. [00:22:49] Speaker B: Oh, obviously. [00:22:57] Speaker A: Oh, no, no. Come on. That's too much. That's too much. For shame. Let me quote directly from my notes, if I may. [00:23:06] Speaker B: Yes, please do. [00:23:08] Speaker A: Fucking look at these nerds. Oh, mise en scene. [00:23:11] Speaker B: I don't think anyone has ever said miserable said in such a horny way before. [00:23:15] Speaker A: The way I whispered the word sex. Cannibal receiver. [00:23:18] Speaker B: Worst comes to worst, Mark, I'm willing to guillotine you for science. [00:23:22] Speaker A: Thank you. That's really, really sweet. It's cold outside, but my pancreas is talking to me. I'm fucking. I'm gonna leg it. [00:23:28] Speaker B: You know how I feel about that, Mark. [00:23:30] Speaker A: I think you feel great about it. I'm just gonna plow right ahead. [00:23:37] Speaker B: Do it, please. [00:23:38] Speaker A: Good evening, freaks and spooksters. [00:23:42] Speaker B: Freaks and spooksters. [00:23:44] Speaker A: And welcome to your semi regular, weekly dose of fucking, you know, spooky inanity from your good chums, Marco and Corrigan. Hello, Corrigan. How are you? [00:23:56] Speaker B: You know, I'm doing all right. I'm a little overheated. It's hot in here. [00:24:00] Speaker A: What I will say, I've been listening to podcasts lately, right? I've been. I've been listening to. The rest is entertainment with the wonderful Richard Osman and Marina Hyde in the UK. It's very good. [00:24:10] Speaker B: You know how obsessed I am with House of games. [00:24:12] Speaker A: Yes. Osmond, isn't it not? [00:24:14] Speaker B: And I hear his. Am I talking about a different person? Osmond? Yes, apparently his books are really good, too. [00:24:22] Speaker A: Laura loves them. [00:24:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:24] Speaker A: Yeah. The reason I mention that is because they. They seem to have structure on their podcast, and they start each week with saying hi to one another and introducing themselves. Hello, Marina, how are you? Hello, Richard. How are you? So I thought we'd do a bit of that. Hello, Corrigan. How are you today? [00:24:40] Speaker B: Oh, I feel like we do that. [00:24:42] Speaker A: Do we? [00:24:42] Speaker B: I think we do that. Yeah, we do a lot of. Sometimes we overshare a lot. Does Richard Osmond do that? No. Do you know all about his mental health and patterns? [00:24:56] Speaker A: He often complains about being tall. [00:24:59] Speaker B: He is quite tall. Yeah. [00:25:01] Speaker A: From what I understand, and is sick of people pointing it out to him. [00:25:06] Speaker B: As you would be. You know, I did do this to someone the other night, but in fairness, it wasn't just because he was tall. I was hired to photograph an art show the other day. [00:25:16] Speaker A: Yeah, fancy. [00:25:17] Speaker B: Yeah, fancy, right? And I go, and there's this one artist who, like, is just so cool, you know, when people just, like, exude coolness, and you're like, I could never. I could never hope to be this cool. And his. He brings things, this entourage of men who are all also very cool, like, wearing really stylish blazers and band t shirts and cool hats and stuff. Just really cool black men. [00:25:46] Speaker A: I think you do. Okay. [00:25:49] Speaker B: I don't know about that until I talk. [00:25:51] Speaker A: Perhaps if I didn't know you and I saw you in that kind of setting, I would probably. [00:25:56] Speaker B: You would think I was cool. Yeah. [00:26:00] Speaker A: With your tattoos. [00:26:01] Speaker B: You know, I don't walk well enough to pull off cool. I think that's the thing, you know? Like, you kind of have to have, like, a little bit of, like, a. Like, a swagger about you. And if you see me take a couple steps in my weird baby giraffe. [00:26:14] Speaker A: Walk, it's like, oh, what you've got is so close to being a swagger. It's somewhere between swagger and stagger. [00:26:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's true. Yeah, it's exactly what it is. So I don't. Maybe I could fool people, but these guys just cool as fuck, but they were all extremely tall, and it was, like, all I could think about. And so I, like, said to the guy, after I took his picture with his piece and all that kind of stuff, I couldn't help but be like, boy, you guys sure are tall, all of you. It's like, oh, yeah. He's like, yeah, I keep all these guys around me. If you need us to walk you back to the parking lot afterwards, a really good entourage here. I was like, aw, that's very sweet of you, but I don't remember why I was talking about that. [00:27:04] Speaker A: Let's see. [00:27:06] Speaker B: Oh, it was just because Richard Osmond complains about that. Yeah. I try not to comment on people's heights, weights, just looks in general. [00:27:14] Speaker A: No, it's not cool. Sometimes not to. [00:27:17] Speaker B: Sometimes it's hard. [00:27:18] Speaker A: I was about to say not to them, but. Not to them. [00:27:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Not generally, but I think I've mentioned this before, though, but one of Kyo's best friends is 7ft tall and they would go and film documentaries together. He's a filmmaker and Keo is five'ten. You know, like he's average height or whatever, but he's walking around with a seven foot guy and people would treat Keo like his handler and they would, like, walk up to him also. Sweet. Jonathan, the tall man, is also most, like, partially deaf. He wears hearing aids, mostly deaf, but he wears hearing aids. So he's a seven foot guy who also can't really hear of. And people always would walk up to Keogh and whisper to him, like, hey, how tall is he? It's not like a carnival. That's a guy. You could ask him. But people are very weird about extremely tall people like that. [00:28:18] Speaker A: What would you think of me if you'd never met me before and you saw me at a gallery? [00:28:24] Speaker B: That's a good question. Unapproachable. [00:28:27] Speaker A: Unapproachable? [00:28:28] Speaker B: Yeah, unapproachable. [00:28:29] Speaker A: Oh, good, good, good. [00:28:30] Speaker B: I'm fine. [00:28:31] Speaker A: Fine. [00:28:32] Speaker B: Yeah. I would think I'd probably be like, yeah, like, I think. I would think you looked cool, but in a, like, absolutely don't talk to me way. [00:28:41] Speaker A: Fucking yes. That is exactly what I would have hoped you did. [00:28:46] Speaker B: That's what you're aiming for. It's like the exact opposite energy of me where I cannot stop people from talking to me no matter where I am or what I'm doing. [00:28:55] Speaker A: Very cool. Do not approach. That is it. That is. [00:28:57] Speaker B: Do not approach. Yeah. [00:28:59] Speaker A: Beautiful. [00:28:59] Speaker B: Like a zoo animal. [00:29:00] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Do not feed. [00:29:03] Speaker B: Do not feed. Bites. [00:29:05] Speaker A: Yep. [00:29:07] Speaker B: But yeah, I am other. I'm doing well. Walter and I had puppy kindergarten today. Dog school did great. But so, you know, obviously we have our meetup coming up and this is get ready. Mark, you might want to start packing a bag or something because FYI, it's like a week and a half from now that you were going to be here. I bet in these United States. [00:29:35] Speaker A: I better start hitching. I better get my better start. [00:29:38] Speaker B: Yeah, right. You have work out how you get here. Get, you know, hop on. Hop on a ship and see if you can find a place in steerage. Work for your keep. But of course, the way that we do things here is last minute. I've been working on things like my tour stuff and things like that forever, but yeah. [00:30:02] Speaker A: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Not to want to call bullshit, but the last thing that you do is work on things last minute. Corrigan, Edmondson. [00:30:09] Speaker B: I said we because it's more of, like, as an entity. The Edmondsons do things last minute, needing a little bit of pressure applied. Me personally, you know, if I'm looking forward to something or whatever, then, yeah, I'm pretty on top of stuff as a household. I see that is not necessarily the case. So what we've been supposed to do all summer was redo our bathroom. Our bathroom is, like, the size of a closet. It's a tiny thing. So when I say redo our bathroom, people are like, whoa, that's crazy. Like, no, it's like, it's tiny. It's, like redoing a closet that happens to have a couple of appliances in it. [00:30:50] Speaker A: And this is gonna be shared between how many people? [00:30:53] Speaker B: A million? Not that many. And there is a soggy basement bathroom for emergencies if anyone needs it, like, my private. You can have your own. Yes. But as such, we did not start this until, like, two days ago, and in doing so, pulling up the floor. So two weeks ago or so, Keo started pulling up the tile, because one of the reasons we decided to do this was that the tile was coming apart, right? It was just, like, pieces of tile were coming up. They had gotten sick of being attached to the floor. Been there since, like, 1980, probably. It's been there my whole life. And underneath, I was like, there's, like, tile under the tile. And so he pulled all of the tile up, and sure enough, there's, like, a marble floor underneath that, which it's cracked in multiple places. If it weren't cracked, it's a gorgeous floor. Probably original to the house. [00:31:58] Speaker A: Imagine if you found, like, a toynbee tile under there, underneath the bathroom. False floor. [00:32:03] Speaker B: We didn't find a toynbee tile, but what we did find was, like, he was, like, the toilet's, like, sitting on, like, weird, like, half balanced things that it's like, we're just kind of lucky this never fell through anything. Like, someone half assed the job the last time that they put something in here. But he found that also they had just kind of used, like, debris to fill in, like, the gaps in the floor. So, like, anywhere where it wasn't, like, even. They just put, like, literally stuff. Like, Keo's always digging in the backyard and finding, like, old bottles and things like that. It's like, they took from the backyard and just, like, put gravel and rocks and, like, whatever was back there in the floor. And so he's like, this is crazy. And, of course, went, like, bought, like, plywood and stuff to, like, actually do this in a way. That would support stuff. But also under the bathtub, just. I feel like the person who did this last time, like, took a break, had a nice cold one, and then just tossed the can under the bathtub because, hey, it's full of trash. Anyway, so he found, like, a pristine 40 year old can of beer from a company called Schaefers that, like, only apparently Pabst blue ribbon bought it out a while ago. Or Pabst, not Pabst ribbon. That's the name of the beer. But Pabst bought it out, like, 20 years ago or whatever, and they only sell it now in, like, niche markets. But this is. It's like, literally one of those cans that, like, you had to puncture with a can opener. This is before they even came up. [00:33:41] Speaker A: With, like, the tops that you might quint drinking one. [00:33:45] Speaker B: Yes, straight up. It looks like the little Narragansett kind of thing. And he found that under our bathtub. I don't know what other treasures exist in this house if we pull up more floors and whatnot, but that was pretty wild. [00:33:59] Speaker A: I just want to give our listeners all across the world just a little update on what's going on in the news. Literally, before we started recording gunshots outside some fucking golf course Trump was at. FBI are calling it an apparent Mar a lagoon. It is Mar a Lago. It is there. Is it? But, yeah, it was a go at him, apparently. An apparent assassination attempt. Yes. [00:34:21] Speaker B: Get it together, people. How hard can it be? [00:34:23] Speaker A: They only have to get lucky once. [00:34:26] Speaker B: That seems like the worst possible place to do it, to be honest. Because it's like, it's his resort with, like, all kinds of security and stuff all over. It's like a lot of. Nobody's getting in there. This is a silly choice. The rally made sense. I don't know. This is. People are not good at this. Yes. Maybe Trump should just stop running for. [00:34:50] Speaker A: As gun crazy a nation as you are subsequent failures to shoot one fucking guy. [00:34:57] Speaker B: This is my thing is like, you know, people are always like, you know, we need to have our guns so that, like, we can rise up against a tyrannical government if they come for us. We don't want the government to be the only ones with guns. And, like, you cannot hit a. A six foot, 3300 pound man in an open golf course and you think you're gonna defeat the government. [00:35:16] Speaker A: And he's not quick either. He's not nimble. [00:35:18] Speaker B: He's not a nimble man. No. Like, come the fuck on. Let's. [00:35:24] Speaker A: Let's be realistic so that's that's this week's Joag place. In historical context. [00:35:29] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. But, uh, in personal context, our bathtub had a beer under it. And I have to somehow go through the entire podcast without peeing because the only way I can pee is if I go all the way down to the basement. [00:35:43] Speaker A: Clench it. Work that pelvic floor. [00:35:48] Speaker B: I don't have a pelvic floor. It's just. [00:35:51] Speaker A: Do you not? [00:35:52] Speaker B: I'm just. Well, everyone has a pelvic. I'm exaggerating. Everyone has a pelvic floor. I just mean I have to pee too much. [00:35:58] Speaker A: Oh, I see. [00:36:00] Speaker B: Did you just a weird medical anomaly I'm announcing on. [00:36:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I did think that was a little bit out of left field, unheralded and bit of a curveball. Did you watch the AEW programming this week? [00:36:16] Speaker B: I didn't in particular. Rambage moment of time. No. I have been so busy this week. [00:36:23] Speaker A: I know that you didn't because if you had, you would have picked up on this. As I picked up on this. There was a very, very fun bit of Aew joag intersectionality this week. [00:36:33] Speaker B: Really? [00:36:35] Speaker A: A wrestler debuted on rampage known only as beef. Right. [00:36:39] Speaker B: I did see beef being said a lot on wrestle sky. Yes. [00:36:43] Speaker A: Big guy, hoss. You know what I mean? Quite nimble for his size. And one of his power moves. One of his moves is called the Kentucky meat shower. [00:36:53] Speaker B: Oh. Someone was like, someone said Kentucky meat shower on blue sky, and I was like, what's happening right now? Like, I thought it was like, gonna be like a tazism or something like that. Like, I didn't know. [00:37:06] Speaker A: That's literally one of his moves. It's called the Kentucky incredible. And I did actually have a little scramble around to see if I could find the episode so I could share it on wrestle sky, but I could not. [00:37:15] Speaker B: It is you just Google or YouTube. [00:37:19] Speaker A: I googled jack of all graves, Kentucky meat shower, and nothing came back. [00:37:23] Speaker B: Oh, that's. [00:37:23] Speaker A: Maybe I did it wrong. [00:37:24] Speaker B: Well, if you look. Yeah, if you look on YouTube with those same keywords, you will find it. I just got really itchy. Oh, no. I wish I could tell you off the top of my head, friends, what number or anything that is. But look up on YouTube, Kentucky meat shower. If you don't know what that is, and let me tell you, you are in for quite a ride. [00:37:46] Speaker A: It's amazing. And I love that beef knows what it is. [00:37:49] Speaker B: Beef. Good job, beef. Where is beef from? [00:37:52] Speaker A: I don't know. A safe guess would be somewhere in the Kentucky region. [00:38:00] Speaker B: I'm very curious as to how this became his thing. [00:38:05] Speaker A: So just to talk. Oh, just to talk. On the trip? The trip. Capital T. Capital T, yes. I am currently anxietying about what meds to bring and what to weigh. [00:38:23] Speaker B: What anxiety could you have about what meds to bring? Like, isn't that a pretty fixed. [00:38:28] Speaker A: Would I need, like, antihistamines? [00:38:31] Speaker B: Oh, we have a lot of antihistamines here. [00:38:33] Speaker A: You don't have to worry about that. [00:38:34] Speaker B: Let me tell you, we are a very allergic family. [00:38:37] Speaker A: Good. [00:38:38] Speaker B: My sister even, like, brought some sort of, like, prescription one. [00:38:43] Speaker A: Dear viewer, dear listener. She's just literally reached off camera and produced a bottle of antihistamines. I think I'll be wrong. [00:38:50] Speaker B: You're gonna be. You're gonna be okay. This is for my sister, who is so allergic to things that she has shots once a month to try to prevent them. So you're set. You're good. [00:39:03] Speaker A: Good. And I was anxious about the clothing, but not so much since you and I talked about it last. And the weather is gonna be, from what I gather, how it was here, like, a fortnight ago. [00:39:15] Speaker B: Yeah, it's looking quite good. The only thing is, like, I'm a little concerned about rain. We're gonna get rain this week, so hopefully that'll, you know, work it out. Obviously, we're planning to have a backyard movie, which I will state, but, yeah, I just. I just really hope that we get nice weather that weekend, which we should. You know, obviously, I have a backup plan, but I really hope that we get that good weather and get to enjoy it. Now, the backyard movie, of course, was voted upon on our discord by attendees. I don't hear. [00:39:51] Speaker A: Not only. I was on holiday and missed this, so I don't know what the choices are, and I haven't looked. Okay, so you say that we've arrived at a yes at a title. [00:40:02] Speaker B: So our choices were right. Killer clowns from outer space. [00:40:06] Speaker A: Wonderful. [00:40:07] Speaker B: Adam's family values. [00:40:10] Speaker A: Yeah, great movie, but not one that I particularly care to revisit. You're gonna tell me that it's won now, aren't you? [00:40:19] Speaker B: No, it did not win. Okay, killer clowns. Adam, Sandy is something. I can't remember what the other thing is. Hold on. Let me open discord because I want to get this right before I reveal to you. Although the thing about discord is, like, every time you open that app, it's like, let me update every. [00:40:44] Speaker A: Every fucking time. [00:40:46] Speaker B: How can you have this many things to update? It makes no sense to me. But I did mention last week. If you haven't looked at our discord in a while, check it out, because Xander has revamped it and it's amazing. [00:40:59] Speaker A: Nice. [00:40:59] Speaker B: Okay. Killer clowns from outer space. [00:41:01] Speaker A: Yes. [00:41:02] Speaker B: Adam's family values. [00:41:03] Speaker A: Yes. [00:41:04] Speaker B: The frighteners and tremors. And the winner is. [00:41:10] Speaker A: Hang on. Now that I know Adam's family didn't win, I would be perfectly happy with any of the other three. So there's no losers here? [00:41:19] Speaker B: No. Yeah, I tried to make them very, like, everybody's in kind of movies. [00:41:24] Speaker A: My order of preference would be tremors, frighteners, and killer clones. [00:41:33] Speaker B: Perfect. Well, I have great news for you, Mark. [00:41:35] Speaker A: Yeah? [00:41:35] Speaker B: It's killer clowns. No, just kidding. It's. It's tremors. [00:41:38] Speaker A: Oh. Oh, that was the opposite way around. Tremors was at the bottom. [00:41:43] Speaker B: Wait, oh, tremors says your bottom one. Who does that? Why would you go backwards? [00:41:49] Speaker A: Well, when you announce things in order of preference, you go lowest first, don't you? [00:41:54] Speaker B: No. [00:41:56] Speaker A: It'S a cultural thing. [00:41:59] Speaker B: Is it, brits? Please tell us. You know, like, when. When you say your order of preference, you start at the bottom. [00:42:06] Speaker A: Well, when they're. When they're, like, doing the charts on the radio, they don't start with number one. [00:42:11] Speaker B: Yeah, but that's a countdown. That's not order of preference. Like, that doesn't make any sense. This wasn't a countdown. You were saying. You said in the order I would like them is the unspoken bit was Lois first. [00:42:29] Speaker A: But listen, I'm perfectly happy with tremors because it's a banger and I can't wait. [00:42:32] Speaker B: It is a banger. Yeah. Very excited to. As long as weather is permitting, watch tremors in the backyard with everybody. It's gonna be so much fun. [00:42:41] Speaker A: It is gonna be great. [00:42:43] Speaker B: Yes. Thanks, everybody, for voting. And we're very excited to see you seeing only one more joag before we are all together. [00:42:50] Speaker A: Whoa, whoa, whoa. So this is 199. [00:42:55] Speaker B: No, this is 198. [00:42:56] Speaker A: Right. I see off. [00:42:58] Speaker B: It was just confusing because, you know, obviously we were very late on this week's episode, so that was one, nine, seven. This is 198. Oh, next week we have 199 and then 200. Don't you fucking dare. [00:43:12] Speaker A: I have a go. I have a gift wrapped opportunity here to do the funniest thing possible. [00:43:20] Speaker B: Absolutely not. Don't you dare do that to me. [00:43:24] Speaker A: I wouldn't. [00:43:27] Speaker B: So, yes, episode 200 will be here with the Hellrankers, and it's gonna be a great time. [00:43:31] Speaker A: And I think tomorrow you sit your New York City tour guide exam. [00:43:35] Speaker B: Yeah, I do. I've been doing flashcards I wrote. This is my strategy when it comes to studying things like this. Okay, here's a last minute thing. Because I've had books and all these kinds of things to study for months, but that is just not how I do tests. I'm a crammer through and through. [00:43:55] Speaker A: 100%. Yep. [00:43:56] Speaker B: And so really, last night I sat down with, like, the. There's a quizlet that someone put together that is like the questions that normally are asked on this exam. And I went and I wrote them all down with their answers by hand in my notebook, which usually is like, that's how I process. I read something, I write it, and that absorbs probably 70% of something. [00:44:26] Speaker A: I'm exactly the same. If you simply tell me something, you may as well not bother. You may as well fucking shout it out the window at the night. Cause it has about as much chance of like. [00:44:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Sticking. [00:44:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Do you want to give me some of those questions? See if I could pass it, see if I could wing it? [00:44:42] Speaker B: Ooh, do you want to hear some of the questions? This is. [00:44:46] Speaker A: I feel as though my knowledge of, like, boots on the ground, street level New York is pretty good. [00:44:52] Speaker B: Well, I mean, that's the tricky thing about this test is like, I mean, it's, what's so funny about it is it feels like trivia, you know what I mean? Like very trivial information. But I am very interested in what they are. I mean, in seeing if you can. [00:45:13] Speaker A: Give me like, give me five. [00:45:16] Speaker B: I give you like five. Okay, let's see what this one you might know. What is the new elevated park called? [00:45:26] Speaker A: The new, the new elevated park in New York. [00:45:34] Speaker B: In New York. [00:45:35] Speaker A: By elevated, what do we mean? [00:45:37] Speaker B: So it used to be train. Train. What do you call it? Train tracks. [00:45:45] Speaker A: Right. [00:45:45] Speaker B: So it's off the ground and above the streets. So you're looking down onto the streets elevated. [00:45:53] Speaker A: I'm pretty sure that's the President Eisenhower memorial floating New York park. [00:46:01] Speaker B: Is that what it's called? Yeah, yeah, totally. No, it is called the Highline. [00:46:08] Speaker A: That was my second highline. Yes. [00:46:12] Speaker B: Let's see. Ooh, I think we've talked about this. Maybe we did. We talked about this in the first Palestine episode. [00:46:19] Speaker A: Okay. [00:46:20] Speaker B: During what war did the battleship, the USS main sink? [00:46:26] Speaker A: The american war of Independence? [00:46:35] Speaker B: Not quite. It was the spanish american war. They ask this because the mast of the ship is at Arlington Cemetery. [00:46:43] Speaker A: Again, second answer. [00:46:47] Speaker B: Let's see. Oh, I like this one because the answer is very straightforward. What was the old elevated 9th Avenue Railroad called? Be really literal here. [00:47:04] Speaker A: Oh, the uh, the, uh. The. I don't know. I don't fucking know. I could. I could say something stupid, but I don't know. [00:47:12] Speaker B: It's the 9th Avenue elevated or the 9th Avenue lithe. [00:47:21] Speaker A: Give me one more. [00:47:23] Speaker B: Yeah, let me find a good one for one more. Let's see. All right. Who was Elizabeth Ann Seton? S e t o N. S e. [00:47:40] Speaker A: T o N. She was the mayor of New York during the depression. [00:47:53] Speaker B: Really? Good guess, but I'm afraid that's incorrect. [00:47:58] Speaker A: Okay, give me another go. Give me another go. Okay. She was the governor of New York during prohibition. [00:48:15] Speaker B: I do appreciate that you are, like, talking about things that are related to here, but also, she's not that. No. Elizabeth Ann Seton is the first us born catholic saint. [00:48:29] Speaker A: I would never have got there. I would never go there. [00:48:33] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like. I mean, these are the difficult kind of questions. Like, things like, where is the next wave festival held each year? Bloomingdale, second biggest collection of egyptian art. You know, like, who funds public arts in the subway? These are all things that don't totally. No, it doesn't. But, sir, I like your shout out. It's like, what is it? What's a New York thing I know about? But, yeah, these don't, like, necessarily feel like things like a tour guide needs to know. They're just like, kind of randomly cherry picked things about New York. Because it's like, I've been putting together my tour for everybody of lower Manhattan, and nothing that I talk about on that tour is anywhere in any of these questions. And I feel like they're very interesting and important things about New York. [00:49:28] Speaker A: A couple of things. Do you have a cool name for your tour? [00:49:32] Speaker B: Oh, do I need a cool name? [00:49:33] Speaker A: Yep. [00:49:35] Speaker B: Like what? Like, what kind of name should I have? [00:49:37] Speaker A: Well, it's your tour. It's your tour. But there's a lot of pressure, uh, maybe with Corrie in it. Jack of all tours. Tour. [00:49:47] Speaker B: Well, guys, I have, like, my travel brand, if you will, that I use for, like, my trip advisor and my exploring, which is. Explore again. [00:49:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:57] Speaker B: Yes. [00:49:57] Speaker A: That works. So, you know, and it's all kind of. And it's all movies. [00:50:00] Speaker B: Explorers tour again. [00:50:02] Speaker A: Oh, that's. That's it, isn't it? That's the one. [00:50:05] Speaker B: It is not all movie themed. No, it's, you know, general New York things, some dark things, movie related things, all that kind of stuff. Because, listen, everybody coming. You know, some people come here fairly often or things like that, but not everybody. And so, you know, if you're gonna come here and visit us. I'm gonna tell you a bit about this place. What you would normally pay for someone to tell you. I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna give it to you for free. [00:50:32] Speaker A: Ah, it's gonna be so good. [00:50:34] Speaker B: So good. [00:50:35] Speaker A: So soon. [00:50:36] Speaker B: So soon. [00:50:37] Speaker A: If you don't pass, I mean, do you know right away if you haven't passed the test? [00:50:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:42] Speaker A: Are you gonna just do it anyway? [00:50:44] Speaker B: Well, you get a second try. If you don't pass, at which point I will know the questions for sure. So. [00:50:51] Speaker A: You know what I mean? What will. Is it. Is it a kind of a realistic possibility of a cop being like, excuse me, ma'am, can I see your license to conduct this tour illegally? [00:51:05] Speaker B: Reasonable thing? That would be amazing if it did happen. [00:51:08] Speaker A: Think how fucking. How big your balls will feel when you fucking produce that card. [00:51:13] Speaker B: It's gonna be like in Vegas, vacation, when he shows him his little Nick papa Giorgio id. Corrective lenses, sir? No, sir, I do not require them. [00:51:24] Speaker A: Yep. [00:51:25] Speaker B: You're like, I don't know what you're talking about, but Ethan Embry, Nick Papa Giorgio, some of you listening know what I'm talking about. [00:51:32] Speaker A: Okay. [00:51:32] Speaker B: No, not me, not mark, but some people. [00:51:38] Speaker A: Only reason I ask is, I mean, if you get. If you fail the test, you won't, and we get shut down, what on earth is to stop? I mean, when does it. When does a tour become a tour? And not just, like, a conversation whilst walking? [00:51:53] Speaker B: That's why the rules are, like, so. It's, like, so narrow. It's like, literally, if you explain anything to people on the sidewalks of New York, you have to be licensed. So they make it so that there's no, like. But there's only two of us or anything like that. They're like, no, if you in any way give information to people on the streets, you must be licensed to do so. [00:52:18] Speaker A: What the fuck? That is petty. That is petty. [00:52:23] Speaker B: It's like, I get why they do it, though, because obviously New York City is, like, a huge tourist destination. So if they didn't have rules like that, imagine what chaos you would have on the streets of just people who are like, hey, give me $10 and I'll show you around. And they're, like, darting through traffic and doing all kinds of bullshit. So this is to make sure that you know that it's not utter chaos on the streets of New York. [00:52:49] Speaker A: What if I'm deliberately spreading misinformation about landmarks and events of New York? If I'm just telling people some bullshit? [00:52:54] Speaker B: Listen, I don't think it says anything about that. [00:52:57] Speaker A: I can do that all day. [00:52:58] Speaker B: Yes, you could absolutely make up your own bullshit tour, which would actually be. [00:53:03] Speaker A: Very funny, is the president Roosevelt Memorial Elevated park, which was opened today. [00:53:11] Speaker B: That's it. I've been looking for the angle to open my own tour guide company. Come to explore against fake tourigans. [00:53:17] Speaker A: There you go. Misinformation. Knowing misinformation. [00:53:20] Speaker B: None of the information is correct, but you'll have a good time. [00:53:23] Speaker A: Yep, yep, yep, yep. [00:53:27] Speaker B: Anyways, we just discussed things two days ago, but in that time, I've watched some things, and I think you've watched at least one thing to try to have something to talk about. So, hey, let's talk about what we've watched. And in the past two days, I'll. [00:53:44] Speaker A: Kick off, if I may, because I was as good as my word. And as soon as you recommended milk and cereal, as soon as you recommended it, I went ahead and watched it. [00:53:53] Speaker B: Beautiful. For those of you who didn't listen last week, milk and cereal is on YouTube. It's an hour and eight minutes. Found footage. Serial killer movie. [00:54:05] Speaker A: Yeah. And look, you get three and a half stars. Milk and cereal, you get three and a half stars. But I will say that two of them are for the hustle. [00:54:14] Speaker B: Sure. [00:54:15] Speaker A: Right. You know, you know that I will always, always, always reward the hustle. Um, milk and cyril is clearly a labor of love. Uh, it is clearly a work of self promotion, as you said. But it's. It's. It's also quite a pro effort by these kids, you know? Yeah, it's. It's quite smooth. It's easily as polished as something like. Like mungo or butterfly kiss. [00:54:45] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. [00:54:45] Speaker A: Easily as accomplished, technically, as something you would have paid to have seen. So take two stars for the moxie, you know, take two stars for that fucking get up and go attitude. The movie itself. [00:55:00] Speaker B: 1.5 stars of movie. [00:55:02] Speaker A: Yeah. The film itself didn't do much for me at all. It was quite basic. [00:55:10] Speaker B: Okay. [00:55:10] Speaker A: You know, but basic in a. In a perfectly polished and accomplished way. You know what it does? It gives hope. That's what that movie does. It gives hope that there is still probably even more so now than there would have been ten years ago. I think that Robert Rodriguez fucking guerrilla filmmaking attitude that all you need is a fucking credit card and some friends and a camera, and you can get something cool out there. I think movies like this and YouTube being what it is, I feel maybe has revitalized that a little bit. I've. I don't mean this to sound as pathetic as I think it might. Right. [00:55:58] Speaker B: But, okay. [00:55:59] Speaker A: I'd love to have a stab at something like this if I had friends. [00:56:05] Speaker B: No, totally. I mean, I've thought about, like, when I watch something like this or, you know, I watched another one I can't think of the name of, but that I talked about probably earlier in the year where it was like, literally one guy made this movie in his house. You know, like, I always think about, like, okay, one day, you know, you and I will make a movie in one of our houses or something like that. You know, and just, like, being able to make something like this, it really does give you that sense of, like, I could. I could make something. You know, it's possible for me to make something in this day and age and. [00:56:40] Speaker A: Right. Tell you what. [00:56:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:42] Speaker A: Don't anybody fucking hold us to this. Don't you dare. But last time we got together, we filmed a bunch of content around the UK. [00:56:50] Speaker B: It's true. [00:56:51] Speaker A: Next time we get together, we're gonna do cool New York shit and joag stuff. [00:56:56] Speaker B: Yes. [00:56:56] Speaker A: The 2025 meetup, wherever it is on the globe. [00:57:01] Speaker B: Yep. [00:57:02] Speaker A: We'll create something. [00:57:03] Speaker B: Make something. [00:57:04] Speaker A: Yep. A short movie together or something like that. [00:57:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Nobody has to hold us to it because, you know, once you say these things to me, it becomes a reality. [00:57:13] Speaker A: I've done it, haven't I? [00:57:14] Speaker B: So you've. You've really done it now? We're gonna. We're gonna make a thing. But I mean, like, that's what I just. I think, you know, ever since I was young, I've always wanted to, like, make things, but it was harder, you know, back in the day when I was. Had my mini dv cam and, you know, hooking it up to my computer with a firewire and. Yeah, using final cut pro and its early iterations and things like that. Like, it was. It was an ordeal to try to make anything. And the fact that we have this stuff as our disposal now and can make the kinds of things that we want to see. Obviously not big budget Hollywood, whatever, but the stories that we want to tell and stuff like that, I would love to just make a small story and be able to put up many of them. The beginning of a beautiful, indeed, partnership. [00:58:06] Speaker A: You know, I'm quietly in the background getting more comfortable with resolve. I'm making stuff for work a lot more than I used to. [00:58:14] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, totally. [00:58:16] Speaker A: So, yeah. And the camera that I bought last year, that DJI pocket camera, is a game changer in terms of how versatile and straightforward it is to use and the results you can get out of it. So, yeah. 2025. [00:58:31] Speaker B: 2025. Joag makes a movie. [00:58:34] Speaker A: Yes. [00:58:35] Speaker B: It'll be a good time. Yeah. I watched a couple old things. I'm still in old mode, but old and spooky. TCM has had some. They're starting their sort of spooky season already, and so I've been DVR ing things off of there, and so I rewatched and what is, like a spooky season constant for me since I was like a child, which is the ghost and misses Muir. Have you ever seen the Ghost and misses Muir? [00:59:11] Speaker A: Never heard of it. [00:59:13] Speaker B: Never heard of it. Never heared of it. Ghost of Misses Muir, 1947, directed by Joseph Mankiewicz. Listen. 57, 47. [00:59:26] Speaker A: Blimey, that's old. [00:59:29] Speaker B: It is old, isn't it? Yep, it is. That's what, like nearly 80 years old at this point? [00:59:34] Speaker A: 80 years old. Yeah. [00:59:36] Speaker B: Yeah. Listen, I owe the Mankiewicz family a lot when it comes to my entertainment. Joseph Mankiewicz, the Mankiewicz that mank is about, that made various things that I love. Josh Mankiewicz, who is one of the hosts of Dateline, and Ben Mankiewicz, who is one of the TCM hosts, the Mankiewicz family, they're all right with me. But Joseph Mankiewicz directed the ghost and misses Muir in 1947. It is a sort of romantic comedy drama of sorts in which a woman's and husband dies, and she moves into a haunted cottage that nobody else wants to live in, but she thinks it's kind of cool that it's haunted. And so she moves into this seaside cottage. It's haunted by this salty ship captain who died four years earlier. And over the course of this movie, they fall in love, but various things sort of tear that asunder, not just the fact that he's dead and she's alive and, oh, it's just, you know, I love a ghost movie, and this is an early ghost movie and one that I've been watching ever since I was a little kid. It's very. It's like when you're an adult watching it, you realize it's very saucy in a lot of ways. And there's, like, a lot of references to this sea captain, like whoring around, basically, and stuff like that, as they be doing. We know this as we talked about last week, the sailor, two weeks ago, the sailors. Sailors be whoring, if you will. And so the ghost in misses Muir is always just a delightful time for me, and I have to watch it every Halloween season, but one that was new to me is called the Body Snatcher. Have you ever seen the body snatcher? I'm gonna guess probably not. [01:01:34] Speaker A: Mmm. Don't think so. [01:01:37] Speaker B: It's 1945. Okay. And stars both Boris Karloff and Bela Lugosi are in this movie. So real horror greats in this one. And this takes sort of the. What were the. Do you know who Burke and hare were? [01:01:55] Speaker A: Yeah. Grave robbers. [01:01:57] Speaker B: Grave robbers, right. Who turned actual murderers when they couldn't get enough bodies. And so body Snatcher kind of plays off of the Birkin hair thing. In fact, Birkenhair are like a looming presence throughout this. They reference them constantly in this movie. And basically, this is about a doctor. So it's like a young doctor who is new to this practice. And the older doctor has been getting bodies from Boris Karloff, playing this very seedy grave robber. And he's a real bad guy. We know one of the first scenes you see of him, there's a dog barking at him in the cemetery, and he just murders it. [01:02:34] Speaker A: Oh, shit. [01:02:35] Speaker B: Like, Jesus Christ. Okay. That's what kind of movie we're in for. And it is. [01:02:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:41] Speaker B: It's basically a movie about this guy who kind of gets in over his head trying to. He wants to help this paralyzed little girl walk again, but needs a body in order for the doctor to sort of experiment on the spine before he tries to do it on this little girl. And when the body snatcher kills someone to get it, it turns everything upside down for this young doctor. And it's a fun little movie. It's like a little over an hour long and full of sinister things. And, yeah, the body snatcher is a fun little, fun little time. Yeah, I enjoyed it. [01:03:22] Speaker A: If you felt as though you wanted to recommend me a movie of that era to watch this spooky season, I would be open to that. [01:03:30] Speaker B: Ooh, I love that because, yeah, every Halloween they start playing things on TCM, and I watch tons of them. So I will think of. I'll pick my top early classic spooky movie for you. [01:03:46] Speaker A: Do it. [01:03:47] Speaker B: And if people listening are like, you gotta tell them this one. Let me know. But I'm gonna think long and hard about this, and I will come back with. [01:03:55] Speaker A: Cool. [01:03:56] Speaker B: A good Halloween, old school. [01:03:59] Speaker A: Cause I. You're in your old movie era still. And I'm still looking for kind of monsters and gore. I'm still kind of. And I feel as though the vein has been tapped dry currently. I don't. [01:04:12] Speaker B: You know what's interesting about this movie, by the way? The body snatcher is what I'm talking about. I was thinking this while watching it, that, of course, because it's 1945, you don't see anything. Right. This is a really good example of a movie where not seeing something is grosser than if they had, you know, done fake blood or things like that. Like, there's a surgery scene in it where the doctor is, like, describing what he was doing, and I was about to throw up. I was like, genuine. Like, my. My brain was filling in what was happening, and I was like, oh, this is horrifying. And, you know, and when he kills the dog, obviously you don't see. But the sounds that they used and all that, like, this whole movie manages to be gory without showing any gore in it, which I'm always impressed by how old movies got around that kind of stuff. [01:05:06] Speaker A: It's simply called the body snatcher. [01:05:09] Speaker B: The body snatcher, yeah. 1940 519 45. [01:05:14] Speaker A: Found it. [01:05:17] Speaker B: Like, I don't want to make that my recommendation, but it is an interesting, like I said, it's only, like, a little over an hour long. So if you watched it, it's an interesting watch for sure. I'm just not making that my one movie I get to recommend to you. [01:05:30] Speaker A: Okay. [01:05:31] Speaker B: Okay. [01:05:31] Speaker A: Well, think on. [01:05:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I'll think on about it. And the only other thing I watched was, like, kind of outside of the horror genre, but tense. I watched Key Largo, 1948, John Huston movie starring Humphrey Bogart and Lauren Bacall and Edward G. Robinson, a real kind of who's who sort of classic noir movie in which basically these, you know, Humphrey Bogart plays a gi, as he often does at this point, even though he's, like, way too old to have, like, been in anything, any kind of war. But anyways, he plays this GI who is in key Largo when a hurricane is blowing through, and he gets basically held hostage by a mobster named Johnny Rocco. And so it's this kind of very claustrophobic. Yeah, Johnny Rocco. And so it's like this very, you know, he and these other people are locked in very claustrophobic kind of movie where they are stuck in this house with this mobster who is holding them captive while there is a storm outside that threatens to destroy everything, including them. And, you know, it's just a very, like, witty and tense kind of movie with incredible actors in it. So key Largo, you know, that's one of those ones that's like, I don't need to recommend that. Everyone knows that. That's a classic, but nice. That's what I watched this week. [01:07:02] Speaker A: Those are my oldies I will counteract your movie full of charisma and personality with a movie completely lacking in both. But I had to. I had to do it, Corrigan. I had to watch it. I had to see the crow. I had to do it. [01:07:21] Speaker B: Oh, boy. Tell me about it. I am curious about this experience. I mean, this is. I have heard only bad things about the remake of the crow. [01:07:32] Speaker A: It's always a great sign when your movie is streaming like three weeks after it's cinema. Great science shows a lot of confidence in the product. Incredible to me that, you know, the storied path that this movie took to production. This has been kicking around various studios with various writers and various stars attached. Gotta be like ten years easily. I remember. I remember hearing about this fucking chrome remake years ago and the number of the amount of money that must have been poured into a black fucking void, right, in an attempt to get this made. And this. This was the result, you know, why. [01:08:22] Speaker B: Is that always how it happens? Like something is like in production and things turn over and stuff like that for like a decade, you know? And it always ends up being the worst. [01:08:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:08:31] Speaker B: Iteration. Like, after all of that, why isn't it like, this is what super honed, you know? [01:08:37] Speaker A: Well, yeah, I mean, my instinct watching this film, one gets the impression of it being like a cut and paste of like 90 different drafts. [01:08:47] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. [01:08:48] Speaker A: You know what I mean? [01:08:49] Speaker B: And they're basically just putting out like it's sunk cost, you know, like we're just gonna lose the rights to this. [01:08:55] Speaker A: If we don't exactly. Exactly. Fuck it. Just get it made, get it out there. But equally as baffling is. Cause the crow 1994 is 80% vibes, right? [01:09:11] Speaker B: Very much so. You know what I mean? I've talked with this hits for different people differently, but I've talked with multiple people like myself who I'm like, I could not tell you a single plot point from the crow. And I have definitely seen it half a dozen times. But it's a vibes movie all the way through. Some people love that. Some people hate that. But it is vibes. [01:09:32] Speaker A: Yeah. It's so beloved because the vibes were so finely honed. The vibe of that film is fucking brilliant. And I'm. Look, I'm a crow guy, right? I'm a big crow guy. I love me. I love me some crow. Oh, yeah. Met James Obar at Con. I just love the crow. It's brilliant. I love the crowd. So to go in, I thought one of the, one of the. One of the. Surely one of the things I can reasonably expect is the vibes. [01:10:02] Speaker B: Right. Like, if there's one thing you're gonna have to nail, it's that surely if. [01:10:06] Speaker A: You'Re gonna work for as long and as doggedly to get a crow on the screen in 2024, you're gonna have vibes. It is so free. [01:10:16] Speaker B: I was gonna say it has to be either that it nails like the same vibe or like a completely different vibe. But the vibe has to be front. [01:10:25] Speaker A: Yeah, a comparable vibe, some kind of vibe. But the aesthetic they've gone with, you've got to have fucking charisma and chemistry between Eric and Shelley. Otherwise, what's the fucking point? And they've gone with this kind of xanax face tattoo, kind of grimy fucking d anthord kind of vibe for the aesthetic. And then the movie itself is inept. Just riddled. [01:11:03] Speaker B: Rupert Saunders. [01:11:05] Speaker A: Just inept. There's one. The continuity is awful. There's this one. There's one scene where Fka twigs and a Skarsgrd are in the bath together. Smoke and a joint. Right? [01:11:20] Speaker B: Sure. [01:11:20] Speaker A: And just the length of this joint, just what jumps between shots. And it's fucking. It's like right in the middle of the camera, like, oh, man, it's front and center. Skarsgrd's face holding this fucking reefer in his mouth. And just within shots, it kind of is long and then it's short, and then it's long, and then it's short. And don't tell me no one fucking noticed that. [01:11:44] Speaker B: That feels like the editor either didn't care or was like, in a. It was a rock and a hard place where they were like, there is no way for me to build this scene. [01:11:52] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. This is all I want. [01:11:53] Speaker B: This is the best that they've given me. [01:11:57] Speaker A: So it's inept. There's no sense of kind of continuity in the action scenes. You don't know what the fuck is happening. It's violent for the sake of being violent. And, hey, that's not in itself a condemnation. Violent for the sake of violent can be great. But the violence is all this. This horrible kind of CGI. No weight or kind of sense of skin or reality or blood to any of the violence. It's piss. It is some weakness. It's just awful. It's awful. It's completely lacking in sincerity and authenticity. It's a fucking stinker. [01:12:37] Speaker B: They saw someone talking about it that was saying, like, you know, Madame Webb is obviously the thing that everyone considers, like, worst movie of the year or whatever, but the comparison between these ones is. It's like, at least Madame Webb is, like, baffling. So you kind of have a good time being like, yeah, what the fuck am I watching? Where this is just like, there's just no fun to be had. It's watching this movie. [01:13:03] Speaker A: Another thing that the crow 94 had, of course, was vibes and a fucking absolute killer soundtrack. [01:13:12] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. Absolutely. [01:13:14] Speaker A: None of that is in evidence here. Just bland kind of background, just filler. [01:13:20] Speaker B: How do you get it so wrong? [01:13:21] Speaker A: It's dreadful. It's so weak. [01:13:25] Speaker B: Well, there it is. [01:13:27] Speaker A: A real shame. And, you know, when you get something like that wrong, as wrong as this gets it, that's this franchise now dead for our lifetimes. You're never gonna see the crow on screen again, ever. [01:13:40] Speaker B: I don't know. Listen, I was just, the other day, someone started watching all of the Carrie movies, the different Carrie movies, which I kind of forgotten that there's so fucking many of them. There are. And that's the thing is it's like they just make a Carrie movie like every decade. It's not very good, but they'll just make another one later on, doesn't matter, and they'll all disappear into the void. There was obviously the original. There was a canadian one made in, like, 2002. There's the rage carry two, which is. [01:14:19] Speaker A: Yes. [01:14:20] Speaker B: Yeah. It was like 1998 or something like that. And then there was the carry that we watched with Chloe Tourette's. Yeah. Yeah. So there's been, like, at least four carries. I may be even forgetting one. And they just keep making them. [01:14:38] Speaker A: And it's like, wipe that out. I didn't think the Chloe Grismoretz one was that bad. [01:14:43] Speaker B: I remember, I believe our review of it on this show was. It was a movie. Yeah, yeah, sure was a motion picture. Like, it was just. It was unnecessary, I think. Or it was like it didn't do anything that made you like. Yeah, it was a really. They should definitely have made this. It's like. It's fine. [01:15:02] Speaker A: Yeah, the crow is barely that. The crow is, you know, is a movie in name only. [01:15:07] Speaker B: But all that to say, it's like, you know, they may have killed it. I mean, they may have done a terrible job with this one, but you never know. A decade from now, someone might just make another one. [01:15:19] Speaker A: Yes. [01:15:19] Speaker B: You make either leaning into just making shit crow movies or maybe someone will be like, let's get it right. [01:15:25] Speaker A: And I'm sure there are people queuing up right now to go, well, the first one wasn't great. Mark, get over it. [01:15:31] Speaker B: Sure. Right. Grow up like this. I mean, that is the thing about the crow is I don't know that it is a great movie. Like I said, I can't tell you any plot points about it. I enjoy watching it whenever I watch it. But it definitely has a demographic. [01:15:46] Speaker A: It does. And you're looking at him. [01:15:49] Speaker B: Yeah. And he is right here and now. [01:15:53] Speaker A: He'S got a podcast. [01:15:53] Speaker B: Gen X. Yes. Certain type of Gen Xer. You know, for a period of time, the crow was their personality. [01:16:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:02] Speaker B: So did it really need to be remade when it was so specific and cult and niche in and of itself? [01:16:12] Speaker A: I put it like that. [01:16:13] Speaker B: This was always folly. [01:16:14] Speaker A: Whilst watching this version of the Crow, I found myself hoping that one of the prop guns had a little bit of shrapnel in it where maybe it shouldn't have been. [01:16:30] Speaker B: But aimed at Rupert Saunders, preferably. Yeah. Did you watch anything else? Oh, you watched the Shyamalan movie? [01:16:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:38] Speaker B: Not trap. The other Shyamalan movie. [01:16:40] Speaker A: The watch. Do you know, I have no desire to watch trap at all. I'm never gonna see it. [01:16:46] Speaker B: I've watched it twice now and enjoyed it. [01:16:48] Speaker A: You went back, huh? You went back to the trap. I did. [01:16:50] Speaker B: I watched it again. I knew the first time I watched it, I was like, this has problems, but I think it's gonna be in my constant rotation. I was like, this is one of those movies. I will watch it every Halloween season. And then Kyo wanted to watch it, and so I watched it with him, and I was like, yep, sure enough, watching it a second time. [01:17:07] Speaker A: Do you know? [01:17:08] Speaker B: I ignore the flaws, and I like it even more. [01:17:10] Speaker A: I'll roll that back if trap is on the plane on the way over. Oh, yeah. [01:17:14] Speaker B: Which there's a very good chance there will be. [01:17:16] Speaker A: There's a solid chance I'll watch it edited. [01:17:19] Speaker B: That's a plane movie. [01:17:19] Speaker A: Movie screen on a plane. I would definitely watch it. [01:17:23] Speaker B: Cause this is not a movie like I'm trying to convince you to watch or whatever. This is, like, my thing. I don't know that you would like it. Airplane. Sure, do it. [01:17:33] Speaker A: But, hey, um, there's another Shyamalan making movies now, and it's perfectly fucking serviceable. The watchers. There's nothing wrong with it at all. It doesn't have any. [01:17:48] Speaker B: I've heard some negative reviews of this one, so. And maybe that is because it's just. [01:17:54] Speaker A: It's disregard them. Right? Because it's perfectly serviceable and a good laugh. It's got a lot in its favor. Right. Where do you. How do you feel about Dakota Fanning? [01:18:06] Speaker B: I like Dakota Fanning. I didn't like her as a kid, but as an adult, I enjoy her. In fact, I just watched a mini series she was in where she was very. Listen, there's only one way to put it. I gotta go british on this. She's very cunty in the perfect couple, and. And she. She plays that super well. And I liked her in the alienist, so I like adult Dakota Fanning. [01:18:30] Speaker A: What's up with you today? You've mocked the death rattle of a dying german heart patient, and now you've busted out fucking the biggest of sea bombs. [01:18:43] Speaker B: I don't know. It's hot in here. Okay? I can't be held responsible for my actions. [01:18:47] Speaker A: All right, so you're fine. Under codifying. How do you feel about the landscape of Ireland? [01:18:54] Speaker B: Oh, you know, I love Ireland. [01:18:55] Speaker A: I know. [01:18:55] Speaker B: You do a whole tattoo about it. [01:18:57] Speaker A: Yep. Ireland is a big character in this film, and. [01:18:59] Speaker B: Nice. I didn't know it took place in Ireland. [01:19:02] Speaker A: Yes, it does. And I won't stoop to calling it breathtaking or fucking anything like that, but the scenery in at least in the first third of this film is a fucking treat. Right. [01:19:15] Speaker B: Well, you've sold me already. I'm gonna watch this tonight. [01:19:19] Speaker A: Landscapes and cliffsides and waterfalls and rural highways. It does the thing. It does the shot. The shot that I like. Yeah. Longtime listeners will know exactly what I mean. That top down shot through a winding rural highway. [01:19:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:19:39] Speaker A: So, yes, it reels you in with that beautiful, beautiful, beautiful cinematography of beautiful landscape. Last Shyamalan would have had to have done is just put that fucking camera down and just hit record on some of these locations because they're fucking stunning. So nice. And then what have you got? You've got a little mystery. You've got a little folklore. You've got some griblies. You know, you've got peril. You've got a little sting in the tail ending. [01:20:11] Speaker B: Amazing. [01:20:12] Speaker A: I didn't hate this movie at all. It's a really easy three stars. There's no gore to speak of. But there are, you know, in my search for monsters, I found them here. And it's very funny. [01:20:21] Speaker B: Hey, I feel like that's the second type. This. This is the watcher. And last week it was kind of the same with, um, the. The one with that gal. I think she's from. Is she from euphoria? Um, Schaefer Hunter. Schaefer. [01:20:42] Speaker A: Cuckoo. [01:20:43] Speaker B: Cuckoo. That's the one. Yeah. Where you were. You're cut. You've been in a, like, looking for gore. And you're, like, not much to be said for that, but. [01:20:49] Speaker A: Yep. [01:20:51] Speaker B: Spooky thing. [01:20:52] Speaker A: You were looking for, knowing who was behind this and the lineage. I was waiting, waiting, waiting for. Oh, the monsters are really us. [01:21:00] Speaker B: You know what I mean? [01:21:01] Speaker A: It isn't really monsters at all. It's. But, no, it never came. The monsters are beautiful monsters. [01:21:07] Speaker B: Yes. Into that. Okay. I will watch the watcher. [01:21:10] Speaker A: Yes, you should. As should you, darling listeners spread out there across the globe, all 8 million of you. [01:21:19] Speaker B: Yes. And all 8 million of you need to help me deal with a particular fear that. [01:21:27] Speaker A: Yeah, what's up with this? [01:21:28] Speaker B: It just keeps coming, keeps coming at me every time I turn on the Internet, which is my fault. You know, it's the thing where, like, you start searching for stuff and then. And then all of a sudden, like, your browser homepage only wants to show you this. [01:21:43] Speaker A: And Google got to tell you, the timing is impeccable. I've got BBC news on in front of me and a headline, literally, I'm reading directly, astronauts reveal what life is like on iss and how they deal with space smell. Space smell, apparently, is a thing. [01:22:03] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [01:22:05] Speaker A: Yeah. You've got a bug in your pelvic floor right now about space. [01:22:13] Speaker B: I do. Because it's about those poor people who are stuck up on that space station right now. They were meant to go. So basically they're. What they're up there for was to. It's perfectly, like, ironic. In this case, this was the flight of the Boeing Starliner that was like, you know, they've been testing it and all that kind of stuff for a while now. And this was supposed to be, like, the NASA test to be like, yes, we're on board. This works and we can start using it. [01:22:53] Speaker A: Yep. [01:22:54] Speaker B: Right? It didn't. It didn't work. They sent these two astronauts, Sonny Williams and Butch Wilmore, up to the ISS for what was supposed to be eight days. And now it's looking like they will in total be up there for about eight months, which is. [01:23:16] Speaker A: I'd be fucking. I'd be so angry. [01:23:19] Speaker B: Right? Like, the. The sunny, sunny Williams was saying, like, I think, like, her mom is, like, old and she wants to, like, be spending time with her because she might die anytime. And she's like, so, you know, I'm trying to, like, keep in touch and all that kind of stuff. My mom, Bush Wilmore's daughter is a senior in high school, and he's gonna miss her senior year. They have. They have a very good, like, attitude about it. Which I guess you have to if you're an astronaut. They both really love space. They've both spent time in space before, and they look at it as kind of, you know, it's one of those things that is always a possibility something could go wrong. Well. [01:24:04] Speaker A: What if I were to tell you? Well, I'm gonna ask. You have a guess for me. Right. How thick would you guess is the hull of the ISS? [01:24:19] Speaker B: That's the thing I've never really thought about. [01:24:22] Speaker A: Take a stab for me. [01:24:25] Speaker B: Is it it. Is it 5ft thick? [01:24:32] Speaker A: What if I told you that it varies depending on where you are, what module you're in, because there's lots of different areas of the ISS. There's living quarters, scientific orders, there's a gym. You know what I mean? It's big, right? But what if I told you that the thickness of the hull varies to between 5. [01:24:52] Speaker B: No. [01:24:53] Speaker A: Yes. [01:24:55] Speaker B: 5 mm. [01:24:57] Speaker A: Yes. 4.8, to be precise. [01:25:01] Speaker B: No. [01:25:02] Speaker A: What if I also told you that some of the modules where the astronauts live, the pressurized modules, the hull is made of aluminium. Yep. [01:25:12] Speaker B: So in like a. They're in a can. [01:25:14] Speaker A: They're in. They're on a large pressurized baking tray. [01:25:20] Speaker B: I don't like that at all. Not into it. I mean, the ones. There's Kevlar as well. [01:25:25] Speaker A: There is Kevlar in places, but generally it's aluminium. [01:25:31] Speaker B: I don't like it. I don't like this at all. [01:25:34] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:25:35] Speaker B: They. I mean, and here's the thing. I think this is still the case. I was reading an article that was from, like, June when this kind of, like, first happened or whatever. They realized they were going to be stuck up there, and they were really trying to make sure that they got back on a Boeing Starliner, basically to save the company face, more or less like, you know, okay, this one didn't work. But, like, it's nothing. It's not a problem with, like, the liner in and of itself, which the issue was. I'm trying to see where. What the issue exactly was. It's something horrifying to me. I can't find it off the top of my head right now. But the idea was that they wanted to bring them back on the same thing. That, from what I can tell, has become impossible. And so they have SpaceX coming up to get them, which basically is like, there's more astronauts who've come to the iss, but, like, you can't just kind of, like, be like, oh, just bring them back or whatever. So they. I think this is nice at least there's, like, twelve people who like new folks who have come up on the iss and everything. So it's not just like the two of them that's floating out in space by themselves. Like, they get new people. Like, interactions. Like you said, the ISS is huge. I don't want to be on it at all, let alone for eight months, unexpectedly. But they do have people who've come on it. But SpaceX is coming to get them. So Boeing could not get their shit together to be able to send them back on it, which is like, this is my nightmare scenario in and of itself, right? I'm stuck in space. I got there on a Boeing, which are falling apart on Earth. Yes, do. Like, this is. I don't. It is difficult for me. You know, I fly united. I am always on a Boeing, and every time I'm like, should I be doing this? Like, is a window gonna fall out? Like, you know, there's a lot to worry about, let alone going to space on a Boeing. And then it's SpaceX coming back. Who blows up rockets, like, weekly all the time. Like, all the time. [01:27:48] Speaker A: See, the. The more private enterprise becomes involved in space exploration. This, you know. [01:27:57] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [01:27:58] Speaker A: But look on the bright side, right? It is surely. Fuck. Surely. It is a matter of time before there's a Titan submersible incident in space, right? [01:28:09] Speaker B: Like, it is anytime. I don't want it to happen to astronauts, right? I want this to happen when Elon Musk takes Peter Thiel. [01:28:18] Speaker A: Yep. [01:28:18] Speaker B: Into space, or whatever you like that. [01:28:20] Speaker A: Yesterday there was a fucking billionaire up there, wasn't there? [01:28:22] Speaker B: A. Yeah, exactly. And that's one of the crazy things about this, too, is that SpaceX is taking tourists, essentially, up into space, and these people have to wait till February for them to bring them back to Earth, which is like, okay, priorities here. This is an emergency. I mean, and it's not. That's the thing for them. It's not an emergency. They're up there, like, now. They're helping with maintenance and doing all kinds of stuff up there, but, oh. And it was a series of thruster failures and helium leaks that occurred before they hit the space station, which is terrifying. But this whole thing is exactly what you just said, Mark. Like, what we're seeing here is that we stopped having a space program essentially, like, a decade or more ago. We retired all of our shuttles, and we have, all of that stuff has now been left to private companies, and it's immediately falling apart. Like, as soon as we started using this shit from private companies, like, we end up with thruster failures and helium leaks and relying on multiple companies to be putting bids in, to be the one to bring someone back from space while they're just sitting up there missing their entire lives. And this happens to us here plenty of times. [01:29:44] Speaker A: I've heard it phrased that, hey, private enterprise. Private companies are able to take more risks, aren't they? And it's the risk that will give us innovation and that will get us closer to other worlds and other fucking, you know, that will enable us to really strike out into space as opposed to government agencies which have pesky, you know, commitments, rules. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:30:09] Speaker B: To try not to kill people and strand them in space and shit like that. Like, I think that's the thing is, you know, I'm terrified of space, but I'll never be there. So, you know, this activates my space anxiety that has come. It's like you and sinkholes or Alan and snakes. None of us are going to be around any of these things. There's no reason to be afraid of them, but it still activates that. But the thing about this is there's implications, because I do get on boeings several times a year and we see how, you know, any form of decrease in regulation and things like that means they cut corners and, you know, terrible shit happens to people as a result of it. And it is like, you know, this is what increasingly our governments want to do, is wash their hands of things and give it to private enterprise, which makes everything more dangerous for us. You know, our government went to the moon, not someone like Elon Musk, because they had to try to make it as safe as possible. And many astronauts have died, of course, over the years. But you're doing your best to minimize those things as opposed to just being like, you know, I'm gonna get space tourists and colonize Mars and blah, blah, blah. [01:31:26] Speaker A: You know, see, I, I used to. And there is still a part of me that is just enchanted and fascinated by space. There's, there's a wonderful kind of three quarters close bright moon right now as I speak in the sky. And I still, I look at it and I am captivated and my imagination is, is, you know, deeply in love with the fucking danger and the mystery and the unknown. Right, right. But in, in the last four years, in the Joag era, when I've confronted more and more the certainty that, you know, we're fucked. You know, we are utterly, utterly fucked. And it's all of our own doing all of this stuff like dicking around in low orbit and, you know, a billionaire sticking his head out of a capsule and hailing it as a fucking huge leap forward for, you know, man's pioneer spirit and our next step towards the stars, it just. It just. It just feels like so much bullshit. [01:32:32] Speaker B: Very much so. [01:32:33] Speaker A: Having a fucking, you know, having a billionaire privately being able to afford what feels to me like an ego trip. [01:32:41] Speaker B: Yeah, well, we're busy trying to figure out if we can spray stuff into the air to deflect the sun from burning us today. [01:32:47] Speaker A: Exactly this while, you know, just this week, again, radio four tells us that 2024, globally was the warmest year ever. Ever. [01:32:55] Speaker B: Right. It's cool. [01:32:59] Speaker A: The shine and the pioneer and the possibility and the future of man becoming more than a one planet species. It just isn't realistic anymore. And was it ever right? [01:33:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, there's plenty of very smart people who have talked about how just every practical reason why we're never colonizing Mars. Elon Musk just the other day is like, oh, ten years, we're gonna be like, it's simply not going to happen, period. He's welcome to try. And I look forward to watching him burn up doing so, but it is not going to happen. And all of this. Yeah, has that fiddling while Rome burns kind of feeling about it. That is exactly it. Yeah. We're all dying off down here. Do we have to watch these dumbasses, you know, have a private space race? [01:33:59] Speaker A: Yes. [01:33:59] Speaker B: You know, that is not for. It's not for science. You know, we are never set to gain anything from this. I think that's part of it, too, is like, they're not trying to figure out, like, by. Walter, calm down, buddy. By going to space, we can figure out something about the planet and maybe it'll help us to combat climate change or, you know, any of these kinds of things. You know, when they went in 1969, obviously there was soviet space race things happening and things like that, too. Like, there were political reasons for this, but ultimately that exploration was not about colonization, but about, like, what can we learn from this? And the astronauts were very into that concept as opposed to just being like, you know, we are going up there so that rich people can escape the earth that they've destroyed. [01:34:50] Speaker A: Yes. And, you know, you don't need us to fucking tell you that a method of travel or a method of reaching the outer edges of orbit built by billionaires for billionaires that ain't accessible to you or I will be. [01:35:09] Speaker B: Yeah, it has nothing to do with us. No, there is. Except for the emissions that they are and expelling in order to have their fun doing this. That's what affects us about this, because we are not getting on those ships. [01:35:25] Speaker A: No, that's not happening. In fact, I mean, where it does lead me, rather than to places of kind of hope and optimism and wonder, is more of a defeatist kind of avenue. [01:35:38] Speaker B: Right. [01:35:41] Speaker A: I wonder. I. Fuck, man. I wonder if it. If there are other fucking worlds that have managed it. I wonder if there are. I start to doubt, you know what that, like, other. [01:35:57] Speaker B: Like, other comparable. [01:36:01] Speaker A: Yeah, other comparable planets with comparable suns, of which there are fucking trillions. [01:36:07] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [01:36:08] Speaker A: Is, you know, do you only get to this place where you try to escape your own planet at the cost of your own planet? [01:36:17] Speaker B: Right. Yeah, exactly. [01:36:19] Speaker A: You know, the aluminum that we manufacture to make a hull, the jet fuel that propels you up there. [01:36:25] Speaker B: Right. [01:36:25] Speaker A: They all are the products of a society which has grown too big for its own rock. [01:36:32] Speaker B: Exactly. [01:36:33] Speaker A: You know? [01:36:33] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, when we. We talked about the possibility of intelligent life elsewhere years ago on this podcast and the idea of making contact and stuff like that, my argument was that if this does exist, we are placing that colonizing mentality on another planet where they might think this will destroy our planet to do this, or. Or we don't need to go somewhere else. This one's fine. Or things like that. We're placing our mentality of, like, you know, pioneering and frontiersmanship onto other beings that, like, you know, maybe would have the force. If they are smart enough to create the kind of stuff that would make it so that they could come and contact us, they might also be smart enough to be like, but we're not going to destroy our planet in order to go see what's happening on Earth. [01:37:34] Speaker A: Which all circles us back to one of the other great tenets of joag, that it's all pointless, and that's fine. [01:37:40] Speaker B: That's fine, and that's. That's fine. Just got around to dealing with that. The sooner the billionaires fry up in the atmosphere, the better. [01:37:48] Speaker A: It's gonna make some great social media. [01:37:50] Speaker B: Can you imagine, like, just how much better the world would be if Elon Musk just burned up just instantly? So many things would just immediately get better. [01:38:02] Speaker A: Yeah. And unlike Trump, I think your average Elon fanboy is way less likely to mobilize. [01:38:12] Speaker B: Right, exactly. [01:38:15] Speaker A: You know? [01:38:16] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it's just a win all the way across the board. [01:38:22] Speaker A: Yes. [01:38:24] Speaker B: There's no downside. So, hey. [01:38:26] Speaker A: Yeah, a little happy. I'm as certain as eggs. As eggs that there's another titan submersible incident just around the corner. [01:38:34] Speaker B: Well, I mean, like I said, even when it came to NASA in the old days and stuff like that, we lost crews despite, you know, all the preparation and things like that, that happened. And so the idea that these guys who kind of tend to cut corners for the purpose of, you know, saving money or getting up faster or things like that, like, of course, eventually people are going to die. They're already sacrificing lots of rockets. [01:39:03] Speaker A: Yes. [01:39:04] Speaker B: You know, and it's unmanned ones, obviously, but, yeah, it's only a matter of time. Just like planes crash, things like that. [01:39:12] Speaker A: And like you said, I would take no pleasure in actual astronauts. [01:39:16] Speaker B: Right? [01:39:17] Speaker A: Yeah, burning up. But a couple of fucking nearby tourist motherfucker, I'll laugh my ass off. [01:39:25] Speaker B: No loss to humankind for that to happen. So, on that very positive and humanistic note, my darling listeners, whom we love so much, thanks for joining us and letting me talk out another one of my somewhat baseless anxieties. But that is rooted also in my fears of late stage capitalism and the overlord zoo will destroy us while having a grand old laugh on their tourist expeditions to space. If you have a suggestion for me for what I should tell Mark to watch from the golden era of Hollywood, let me know. I'm gonna be thinking about that. [01:40:10] Speaker A: Don't tell me. Go through Corrie. I only go through me, Mark. I only respond to Corrigan. Don't tell me I witness this. [01:40:17] Speaker B: You're shouting into the void. If you talk to Mark about anything, if you are coming to the meetup and haven't already, make sure that you get on our discord, look at the packet so that you can get the packet and get pumped to watch tremors with your online besties. It's gonna be a great time. Suddenly shoving pills in your mouth. [01:40:43] Speaker A: Bedtime. [01:40:44] Speaker B: End of the podcast. Oh, God. [01:40:49] Speaker A: Is what I was doing. [01:40:54] Speaker B: And until next week, dear friends, what Walter Groggins and me and Marco want you to do is one very important thing. [01:41:01] Speaker A: Stay spooky. [01:41:04] Speaker B: Do it.