Ep. 194: when the brain is blind but the eyes aren't

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Let me just revisit let me just revisit another let me just revisit a topic that just in, will never stop fascinating me. It will never stop baffling me. It will never stop enchanting me. [00:00:16] Speaker B: Great. [00:00:17] Speaker A: Everything that exists, everything that exists anyway, exists within the brain. Would you agree with that? [00:00:30] Speaker B: Like a tree exists in my brain or like, like, what do you mean? [00:00:34] Speaker A: The universe, as you perceive it, only exists to you within your brain. You aren't seeing. You aren't seeing the world around you. You're seeing reflected light from the world around you. You're not. You're not perceiving the world really. You're perceiving electrical stimulus caused by the world and interpreted by your brain. [00:01:02] Speaker B: Okay, let's go with. I don't know that I, like, fully on board with that, but I'm going to. [00:01:08] Speaker A: From a certain perspective, from a certain point of view. [00:01:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:13] Speaker A: All you're experiencing is being interpreted by your brain and therefore you are subject to the fucking problems that can come with that. [00:01:23] Speaker B: Okay. [00:01:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I got you with me. The curls, the knots, the walls, the peaks, the valleys of your brain are responsible for your ultimate experience of the world. And that goes, you know, externally as well as internally. Your external worldview, your self image, your reason, your deduction, logic, creativity, the whole fucking. Your ex. Your experience of the universe exists within your brain. And it's matter examining itself. When you think of that, when you realize that it's insane and it's terrifying and it's wonderful that it is matter examining itself when it works, amazing. When it doesn't, fucking. [00:02:05] Speaker B: What a wonder. [00:02:06] Speaker A: Terrifying. [00:02:07] Speaker B: Yes. [00:02:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:08] Speaker B: Disorders, we have definitely talked about those kinds of things over the years. For sure. I'm with you. [00:02:14] Speaker A: And it. I often return to it, you know, it's the source of all your well being and the source of all your dysfunction. I just to pull on that thread, I think it could be both argument for and proof against intelligent design. [00:02:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:34] Speaker A: Because when works, it works spectacularly, but when it fails, it fails magnificently. [00:02:42] Speaker B: Yeah. I was thinking, you know, I was in New York City the other day, just walking along and walked past someone in the evening who was, you know, an unhoused woman sitting on the, you know, side of a building. And she was talking into the air, you know, to nobody in particular. And I was kind of thinking about that, just, you know, what's going on in her brain right now? What is she seeing? What is she processing? Because it's not like you said, it's not the same thing that I'm receiving or processing. There is something going on in there that it makes perfect sense for her to be speaking out loud about, but I can't perceive that at all, you know? So what is. Yeah, you know, that's exactly whatever's going on in there. [00:03:28] Speaker A: That is exactly what I'm talking about. Who's to say that my color green is the same as your color greenhouse? [00:03:32] Speaker B: Right. [00:03:33] Speaker A: You know, yeah. [00:03:35] Speaker B: Magenta doesn't exist or whatever. Yeah. [00:03:38] Speaker A: It's exactly this. And I, you know, bollocks to anyone who says to me that, you know, the. The perfection and the. All the systems working in tandem of the human organism that has to be the hand of the creator, because fuck off. Because fuck off. If that were true, then seizures, embolisms, tumors, strokes, learning disorders, developmental disorders, emotional disorders. [00:04:04] Speaker B: You're forgetting something very important. [00:04:08] Speaker A: Come on. [00:04:08] Speaker B: The fall. [00:04:09] Speaker A: The fall, the fall. [00:04:13] Speaker B: That's why we're not perfect anymore. Because, you know, the fruit in the garden of Eden and all that kind of stuff that, you know, gave us the knowledge of good and evil and created imperfect beings instead of us getting to live in the garden in perfection. That's why. [00:04:28] Speaker A: Oh, now, that's totally. [00:04:29] Speaker B: Our systems don't work correctly. [00:04:32] Speaker A: I didn't know that. [00:04:34] Speaker B: Is that the line? [00:04:35] Speaker A: Is it? That's the answer? [00:04:36] Speaker B: It is, yes. That's also why childbearing hurts, right? That's one of the things it specifically says in the Bible, is it increased a woman's pains and childbirth. Like, everything that went wrong came from the fall. [00:04:51] Speaker A: So had it not been for the serpent and the apple and all of that nonsense, we'd live in perpetuity, in perfect health. Oh, what horseshit is that? [00:05:04] Speaker B: I've talked to you about this before, this idea of apologetics, right? Because there's so much that if you take the Bible literally, you're like, it feels like that's not true or right, and so you just have to have explanations for it. And the fall covers literally a multitude of sins. Amongst those being, why are our bodies imperfect? [00:05:25] Speaker A: My God. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. [00:05:28] Speaker B: Well, there you go. [00:05:29] Speaker A: Delighted to learn it, though. But, I mean, that horseshit aside, I love. I do. Look, however. However. Whichever end of the roller coaster I'm on, I still love being human, you know? [00:05:44] Speaker B: Right. [00:05:46] Speaker A: It's. It's a. It's a. It's a real fucking treat. It's a good time on balance. And, look, a lot of that is my fascination with the brain. It's. It's sensitive, it's mysterious. It's the most important thing on earth. It's the fucking. It's what provide that jelly, that fucking blanc mange, that pudding. That is the brief fucking crack of like between those oceans of nothing, right? That's what that is. It's, it's, it's that fucking brain crazy shit. It is the entirety of your human existence and it can lie to itself. [00:06:20] Speaker B: Oh boy, can it? In fact it does all the time, whether there's something wrong with our brains or not. Just a regular functioning brain. Lies to you every single day. [00:06:30] Speaker A: Yep. And you know, not consciously but just as part of its little systems and processes it can just spin all sorts of bullshit to itself while, you know, some. We've covered delusions before. We've covered, you know that the Kodar delusion when you think you're dead, right, the cap grab when you think everyone is an imposter. Let me, let me introduce you to another of these if you don't mind. A beautiful, beautiful little quirk of physiology known as Anton's syndrome or Anton Babinski syndrome. [00:07:06] Speaker B: Okay? [00:07:06] Speaker A: Does the name ring a bell? [00:07:10] Speaker B: Not particularly. I don't think. No. [00:07:13] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. Let me, let me sketch it out for you. By the way, psycho has just started on BBC Two, so that's beautiful. [00:07:18] Speaker B: Nice. Perfect. [00:07:19] Speaker A: The good one, the real one, not fucking Vince Vaughn wanking. [00:07:26] Speaker B: Oh boy, I love that. They made like a shot for shot remake and decided the one departure needed. [00:07:34] Speaker A: We'll show him having a tug. [00:07:36] Speaker B: Yup. [00:07:37] Speaker A: Why why why? Anyway, Anton syndrome. So firstly, super rare, right? Super rare. Less than 30 published cases of this worldwide. [00:07:46] Speaker B: Wow. [00:07:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Less than 30 published. So. [00:07:50] Speaker B: Sure. [00:07:50] Speaker A: But maybe. [00:07:51] Speaker B: I'm sure it's not a ton more than that. [00:07:53] Speaker A: Nope. So the condition shows itself in as, as you know, delusions often do. Shows itself in patients who've suffered damage to a very specific area of their brain. Right occipital lobes. So we're at the lower back of the brain just above the cerebellum, just above the spinal cord, the back kind of chunk of the blanc mange, right? It's when. Do you know what blanc Mange is, by the way? [00:08:23] Speaker B: I mean I can reason it out, but no, I don't know it definitionally. [00:08:27] Speaker A: All right, blanc mange is a kind of a milk based pudding dessert. [00:08:33] Speaker B: It's exactly what it sounds like, yeah. [00:08:36] Speaker A: So I guess you'd call it Jell o. Yeah, sure. Take Jello and maybe add some like condensed milk to it and let it set and it looks incredibly similar to brain matter. [00:08:52] Speaker B: Fascinating. [00:08:53] Speaker A: So anyway, Antons if you've damaged that specific area of your brain, in some cases, it can lead to blindness. All right. [00:09:02] Speaker B: Okay. [00:09:03] Speaker A: But important to define this, this is cortical blindness as opposed to ocular blindness. Your eyes are fine, right. But your brain is damaged. So the vision centers of the brain are fucked. But not your eyes. Your eyes are fine. Most commonly, stroke damage that can cause this cortical blindness. But, you know, it can come about from complications from surgery, head trauma, MS, autoimmune disorders, any kind of. [00:09:32] Speaker B: It's such a weird concept because it's kind of like. So you know how, like, when you get Covid, right? [00:09:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:40] Speaker B: You often lose your sense of smell. [00:09:43] Speaker A: Yes, yes. [00:09:43] Speaker B: And it's like. It's a brain issue. It's not. There's nothing. You're not excessively clogged. There's nothing wrong with your nose itself. It's your brain that isn't processing the smell. Right. And that's why, you know, some people. You know, I was saying one of my friends has not had smell for two years as a result of COVID And, you know, and whereas for me, it was like two days or something like that, it was gone. But that was, to me, wild because I felt like I should be able to fix it. You know, I was like, okay, my brain is not processing. Being able to smell. [00:10:22] Speaker A: Yes. [00:10:23] Speaker B: I have to be able to, like, train it to. Right. Like, I can coach it, but why would. My brain can't just forget this. I know what it means to smell. [00:10:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:32] Speaker B: Why can't I fix it? [00:10:34] Speaker A: Yes. [00:10:35] Speaker B: All of the equipment, all of it's there. It's functioning. It works, you know, but my brain isn't picking up what it's doing. And that idea is, like, well, terrifying. You know, the idea that, like, you know, all the pieces are working, but I can't do anything to fix that because my brain has just stopped doing it. Well, carrying out that process. [00:11:00] Speaker A: Interestingly. Interestingly, you may find that that lack of the. It's almost like the input equipment being knackered but being fine, but the cpu being knackered in many cases, right. That leads to something known as anosognosia. Okay. [00:11:19] Speaker B: Okay. [00:11:20] Speaker A: Anosognosia. That is a condition whereby because of damage to the receptors to the pathways in the brain which deal with particular inputs of stimulus, your body is incapable of recognizing that you have the disability. Right? [00:11:38] Speaker B: Hmm. Okay. [00:11:39] Speaker A: So it is in Anton syndrome, the sufferer is blind. Cortically blind. Yet they don't realize it and will deny their blindness. What fucking right patients who suffer from Anton syndrome, even though they will be functionally blind, they will believe that they can see, and they will hallucinate or confabulate responses to questions their brain will tell them that they can see even though they are blind as fuck. [00:12:17] Speaker B: Whoa. [00:12:18] Speaker A: Yeah, mate. Yeah, mate. [00:12:22] Speaker B: I. Oh, man, I have so many. I know you're gonna explain, so I'm gonna. Yeah, I'm gonna let you go because I have a lot of questions here, but I have a feeling you're already going to answer them. So I'm gonna let you go and I probably will interrupt, but go on. [00:12:36] Speaker A: So, in terms of causes for this, right. Yeah. No definitive answer. Theories that there's maybe damage to the visual cortex, but no damage to the actual pathways to the eyes which process the vision. So maybe your body is getting visual stimulus. [00:12:54] Speaker B: Yeah, it has to be, right? Like, if your eyes are working, everything's coming in there, but the fucking. [00:12:59] Speaker A: The cpu isn't. So your brain connects, so your brain can't process the input that it's getting. Other theories? Maybe it's that the visual input isn't being processed, but the speech centers that are associated with visual inputs are still working fine. So when you think about seeing, or when people ask you if you can see, your speech centers just fill in with any old shit and you just say the shit that you think you should be able to see. [00:13:27] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it's like, you know, we've talked about how one of the things that we've learned about the brain is that sometimes a function can be rerouted. [00:13:36] Speaker A: Yes. [00:13:36] Speaker B: And sort of end up being something that's supposed to be working in something that's supposed to be working in one part of the brain, you know, if something happens, sort of reroutes itself to be. To work somewhere else. And so, you know, maybe that's kind of what you're saying there. It's like it's sort of rerouted where that function is in some way. [00:13:58] Speaker A: But the fact is, sufferers of Antons refuse to accept evidence of their blindness and are adamant that they can still see, even though, you know, they're often diagnosed by just fucking bumping into shit. [00:14:11] Speaker B: I was gonna say, like, they have to. [00:14:13] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:14:14] Speaker B: They don't notice in their day to day life that they're just. Or they're just like, I don't know, is there something wrong with, like, my proprioception or something? Like, I keep running into things for. [00:14:22] Speaker A: Some reason, and they will. They will confabulate memories of stuff that they. That they. That they've seen, they will confabulate. You know, who's in the room with them? [00:14:32] Speaker B: Do they try to, like, drive? [00:14:34] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%. There have been, you know, like I said, less than 30 documented cases. But tests, you know, you hold out an item and ask the patient what it is, and they'll just confidently make a guess of what it is. Oh, yeah, that's a banana. And even when then told that they were wrong, they would still act as though the response was correct. They'll create, you know, if you ask an Anton sufferer to tell you what they can see, they'll describe in vivid, exacting detail the scene that they think is before them, even though they're blind. [00:15:12] Speaker B: It's like the exact opposite of my brain. Because of my aphantasia, I'm like, I don't see anything in there. So the idea that people, like, managed to create an entire world in there is kind of hard to fathom for me. [00:15:26] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. And like I said, often being really vehement and really adamant that they can see just fine, even when presented with overwhelming evidence to the contrary. [00:15:35] Speaker B: What's that about? Because you would think, like, I get. I get being like, holy shit. What? You're telling me that's not what's there, but it's wild to, like, then insist that you can see. [00:15:50] Speaker A: It's only wild with you. It's only wild if you. If you think about it as being an act of intentional deception. But it isn't that. That suffer abilities that they can see. And. [00:16:01] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I get that. I just feel like if someone told me that I, like, everyone else is not seeing that. Yeah, I would be like, well, fuck, I guess. Yeah, I guess I can't see. You know, I wouldn't, like, try to deny it. You're like, holy shit. That's interesting news. That explains why I keep running into things. [00:16:21] Speaker A: Yes. [00:16:22] Speaker B: You know? [00:16:22] Speaker A: Yeah, well, yeah, that's it. I mean, it's a really. Kind of really pronounced disconnect between what, you know, their blindness, visual impairment, and the experience that they're going through. Their subjective experience tells them in every way that they can see, and yet all the evidence, you know, tells them that they can't. You know, there's case studies all over the place. An elderly patient who had a stroke and would respond, like, really quickly to questions about the physical appearance and the clothing of the doctor in front of her, just giving wildly incorrect answers. When left kind of to their own devices to eat, they would kind of feel about and get utensils in front of them to eat, but would just spill food all over the place because they didn't, you know, there was, there was no, no real visual input because they were fucking blind, right. But yet as far as they're concerned, in their own head, in their own brains, they say in just fine. Their brain is just making shit up to fill in the lack of visual stimulus because they're, you know, their visual fucking centers in their brain are all fucked up, but the brain is just feeding them bullshit. [00:17:38] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:17:39] Speaker A: Wild as fuck I am. [00:17:42] Speaker B: Yeah. This is, this is one of the more like fascinating ones you've brought. I mean, they're all interesting, but I think this is particularly, I don't know, to, I think because for one, it's bananas that those connections can be severed in the first place. Right? [00:18:03] Speaker A: Yes. [00:18:03] Speaker B: The idea that, like I said, like with the, you know, my being like what the fuck? Why can't I smell what I know that my nose works. You know, the idea that like just something being amiss in the brain can make it so that like your eyes work but they are useless. [00:18:22] Speaker A: Yes. [00:18:22] Speaker B: Is a bananas idea in and of itself. And then to add this other layer of a thing I don't understand because I don't see pictures in my brain of then filling in complete scenes, like whole scenarios with no gaps, right. Because if you had like, you know, you have to think. You're constantly seeing is what I'm saying. Right. Like there's no point at which it's like, oh, the lights went out and you don't see anything. In order to maintain this delusion, you must at all times it's gonna be consistent, be walking around with a consistent hallucination. So if you're walking down the street, you see a street and you turn a corner and you see that turn and the people and the cars and the homes and all that, until you. [00:19:10] Speaker A: Fucking banging, uninterrupting or until you fucking get hit by a car or whatever, you know, your brain is telling you every step of the way, you can see just fine. [00:19:18] Speaker B: And then on top of that it's like, oh man, that what is happening? You know, what is the intermediary here? Is it like the brain reaching for neuroplasticity that it can't quite, can't quite fix it? [00:19:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:37] Speaker B: You know, like it's like I am trying to reroute these functions because eyeballs work. Light is coming in here. Yes, I can hear what's going on. All of the other senses are working. [00:19:50] Speaker A: I'm aware someone is speaking to me, so I'm making a picture of what I imagine they should look like. [00:19:55] Speaker B: Right, exactly. And there's just like, this one broken thing, and your brain is just like, how can we make this work? But we can't properly do that. You know? [00:20:05] Speaker A: And there are instances, plenty of instances, in journals of it, because it's reversible. It's not a one way street. Okay. If you're able to treat the underlying cause of the blindness. So, you know, if it's a stroke issue, then dealing with what the, you know, the underlying factors are, if, you know, whatever actually caused that damage to that part of the brain in the first place, if you can treat that effectively and restore some of the vision, it just goes away and you got your sights back and it's fine. [00:20:31] Speaker B: Did they, like, did you see anything where they talked to someone that it had been reversed in? Because, okay. Because that would be really interesting. Is like, okay, when they turn the lights back on, on you do you go, oh, this room looked different. [00:20:46] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:20:46] Speaker B: Before. Holy shit. [00:20:48] Speaker A: You know, because all too often it's a complication of something like stroke, of something like a degenerative condition by nature that tends to happen in older patients. [00:20:59] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. [00:21:00] Speaker A: A lot of sufferers, you know, are the kind of 75, 80, 90 odd year old people, you know, who may not have a great deal to come back to anyway. But there are, there are cases of this happening in hypertension cases. There's a hypertension. Oh, yeah, totally, totally. If it causes a brain bleed. [00:21:19] Speaker B: Uh huh. Okay. [00:21:20] Speaker A: Yeah. There was a case I read about of a girl who, who developed blindness and then Anton syndrome after a traumatic abortion. [00:21:30] Speaker B: Oh, wow. You know, okay. [00:21:32] Speaker A: Anything that can cause, you know, a traumatic kind of impact on the brain. [00:21:38] Speaker B: Which can probably, like, aneurysm. [00:21:41] Speaker A: Exactly. Embolism. Exactly, exactly, exactly. But if you can treat that root cause and, you know, have an impact on the vision, then the Anton goes away and you've got control again. You know, your brain cuts the bullshit because it doesn't need it. [00:21:54] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, of all things, it's interesting because on the one hand, like, if you knew, if you accepted that this was a thing you had, so then you didn't endanger yourself as a result of it. Right? Like, didn't go out and just try to keep living your life. Like, you can walk out into traffic and know what's happening. It. I don't know. I was gonna say, like, it might be kind of a nice thing because you still can see, as opposed to, like, the trauma of not being able to see anymore, but not having control over what you see. [00:22:31] Speaker A: So. [00:22:32] Speaker B: And knowing you're perceiving wrong might be terrible too. [00:22:35] Speaker A: If I. If I ask you then to. To picture a cow. [00:22:40] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [00:22:41] Speaker A: What happens? Can you just imagine a cow for me? [00:22:45] Speaker B: No. Like, it's hard to explain because it's like, I could tell you what a cow looks like, verbal. It's not that. Like, there, you can draw your memories. [00:22:53] Speaker A: And experiences of a cow. [00:22:55] Speaker B: You're right. And I would. If I saw one, I'd be like, that is a cow. But there's nothing in my head, which is one of the reasons why, like, you know how much I like to draw, but I'm not, like, I have to have a reference to draw something, because literally, if I turn away from the reference, I do not remember what it looked like to be able to draw it. So it's. There's nothing. Nothing comes back up in my head. I have to actively be looking at something, or it's gone. There's nothing for me to draw from. So interesting to me, I've always felt like, yeah, that's why I don't draw well is because I simply can't. If you told me to draw a cow right now with no reference, I could not do that. [00:23:47] Speaker A: I'd like you to try. [00:23:50] Speaker B: You want me to try to draw a cow? [00:23:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Maybe not right now, but I think maybe, hey, this is content, mate. Maybe at some point in the future, because I can close my eyes right now, there's a. I can just right in front of me, and she's lovely, and I want to give her a cuddle. And she's got lovely hair, and she's warm, smells a bit. [00:24:11] Speaker B: She's a cow. Really nice. No, I can honestly, I can drop a smell much better than I can do. [00:24:19] Speaker A: Wow. [00:24:19] Speaker B: A sight, a feeling, a smell, a sound, those kinds of things. No problem. But visually, there's nothing going on up there. [00:24:27] Speaker A: And what's. Is there a name for that? Again, tell me again what that's called. [00:24:30] Speaker B: Aphantasia. [00:24:31] Speaker A: Aphantasia? [00:24:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:34] Speaker A: Well, then this is. Yeah, this is. This is almost like an inverse. [00:24:36] Speaker B: It's the reverse, isn't it? Yeah. [00:24:38] Speaker A: It's having no visual stimulus but your brain. See, and you. You know, you talk about the evidence to the contrary, you know, despite bumping into stuff and people telling you you're blind in cotards, I'm moving my hand. Obviously, it's not dead, but yet. [00:24:53] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. [00:24:54] Speaker A: Everything in my senses tells me that this body part has died and is rotting. I know that this is my fucking. My mum or my best mate, but, you know, the. The visual evidence tells me this, but everything about me, everything inside me tells me that they are not. They're an imposter. This is the same. I'm blind as fuck, but my brain will not accept it and is telling. [00:25:17] Speaker B: Me I'm going to allow that to be reality. [00:25:18] Speaker A: And it's filling my mind with the visions that it thinks I ought to be seeing. That's so cool, isn't it? [00:25:26] Speaker B: It is. It's. It's cool and confusing. And, you know, just like you said in the beginning of this, this is what, you know, is so fascinating about the brain. You know, we. We perceive things a certain way. [00:25:39] Speaker A: Yes. [00:25:40] Speaker B: And to a degree we don't know that everyone perceives things, anything like how we perceive them, right? Like, there is no singular bit of evidence that says that we all think humans look the same or anything like that, or perceive colors the same or anything like that. Like, we. We don't know that, but we kind of think we do. Yes. And then something like this comes in and screws with it. And, you know, hey, from a philosophical perspective, right, like, who's to say that that perception, maybe we've all got it wrong and they are actually exactly peering behind whatever weird barrier of perception we've put up that makes us see things weird. [00:26:25] Speaker A: Oh, look, it's a thread you really can pull on. I mean, when you're dreaming, you don't know you're dreaming. When you're in a dream, you don't, you know, it feels real. So who's to say, you know, who's to fucking say I like it, but. [00:26:41] Speaker B: I don't like it. [00:26:42] Speaker A: I love it and I hate it in equal measure. But this is, this is, this is, this is why I'm so fascinated by this fucking brief crack of light, you know? That's why it's so fucking fun. Because as fleeting as life is, it can still go wrong in so many fucking ways. [00:27:04] Speaker B: It's a great moral of the story, Mark, listen, life is short and also it can be terrible. [00:27:10] Speaker A: Yes. Yes, that's the path. [00:27:12] Speaker B: And you never know when it might happen. [00:27:13] Speaker A: Pathos is huge. It's brief and it's fleeting and it's cruel, and it can also go badly wrong through no fault of your own. [00:27:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I just. I would like, you know, I don't want anything bad to happen to me, obviously. No, I feel like brain things are definitely on the top of the list. Of. Please don't. Please don't let that happen. [00:27:37] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I hope. I hope no brain, bad brain things happen to you. I like you enough to be openly happy to say that. [00:27:48] Speaker B: I appreciate that. Thank you. [00:27:51] Speaker A: Let me quote directly from my notes, if I may. [00:27:54] Speaker B: Yes, please do. [00:27:55] Speaker A: Fucking look at these nerds. Oh, mise en scene. [00:27:59] Speaker B: I don't think anyone has ever said mise en scene in such a horny way before. [00:28:03] Speaker A: The way I whispered the word sex cannibal recently. [00:28:06] Speaker B: Worst comes to worst, Mark, I'm willing to guillotine you for science. [00:28:09] Speaker A: Thank you. That's really, really sweet. It's cold outside, but my pancreas is talking to me. I'm fucking. I'm gonna. [00:28:16] Speaker B: You know how I feel about that, Mark. [00:28:18] Speaker A: I think you feel great about it. Oh, I'll bring us in. All right. You might enjoy this. Um, so I was fucking about with the boys earlier on. Uh. Uh, just asking GPT weird shit, right? And seeing what ridiculous fucking nonsense it comes out with. Right? [00:28:34] Speaker B: You should not talk to that robot. [00:28:37] Speaker A: No, not in any kind of, you know, deeper, meaningful way. We were. In fact, it was. It was kind of a hidden lesson on information literacy. We were just asking it the most basic fucking questions and looking at all the ways in which it was wrong. [00:28:50] Speaker B: Nice. [00:28:52] Speaker A: But it was a Sunday, so I asked GTP, what can you tell me about the podcast Jack of all graves? Ooh, right, you're gonna like. [00:29:01] Speaker B: Nice. Okay. [00:29:04] Speaker A: Jack of all graves is a horror themes podcast that delves into a wide range of topics related to fear, folklore, true crime in the macabre. Right? So far, so good. So good. It goes off the rails real quick. The podcast is co hosted by Mark Lewis, a film and tv producer based in the UK. [00:29:21] Speaker B: Okay, nice. Upgrade. [00:29:23] Speaker A: And Corinne McCaffrey. [00:29:28] Speaker B: Now, hold on. [00:29:31] Speaker A: Kareem McCaffrey, an american writer and academic. [00:29:38] Speaker B: Corinne McCaffrey, how. [00:29:41] Speaker A: C R I n E. McCaffrey. M c c A w F R E Y. Corrine McCaffrey, an American writer and academic. So I'm. [00:29:49] Speaker B: How does chat? GPT. Mishear my name? [00:29:53] Speaker A: Fuck, no. [00:29:53] Speaker B: Like, how does that happen? [00:29:56] Speaker A: A film and tv producer based in the UK, and Kareem McCaffrey, an american writer. And the rest of it is pretty bang on, actually. Okay, they bring. [00:30:04] Speaker B: Let's hear it. [00:30:04] Speaker A: They bring a blend of humour, insight, and deep curiosity to each episode, making it both entertaining and informative. Super complimentary. The title jack of all graves plays on the phrase jack of all trades, indicating that the show covers a broad spectrum of subjects, often centered around things that go bump in the night or otherwise disturb the piece. The hosts discuss everything from classic horror films to bizarre and unsettling historical events, obscure urban legends, and the psychology of fear. It actually, actually does quite a good job. [00:30:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's picking up all the ways in which we have described it on the Internet. [00:30:37] Speaker A: Yeah, that's true. It closes. Listeners of Jack Olgraves appreciate the podcast for its ability to explore dark and sometimes creepy subjects while maintaining a sense of humor and approachability. It's a great listen for fans of horror, true crime, and the weird and wonderful aspect of life. That's great. [00:30:52] Speaker B: Now, they've gone into our reviews, obviously. [00:30:56] Speaker A: Maybe so. [00:30:56] Speaker B: Yes. [00:30:57] Speaker A: I'd like to meet this Karine McCaffrey. [00:30:59] Speaker B: I know. I'm sure she is very sexy and. [00:31:03] Speaker A: Educated with great shoulders. [00:31:06] Speaker B: She sounds like a treat. Oh, that's good. [00:31:14] Speaker A: I love that. Hey, listen, how you doing? [00:31:18] Speaker B: I'm doing, I'm doing. [00:31:19] Speaker A: How are you doing, listeners? Oh, you're sweating. [00:31:21] Speaker B: Did you say I am? I'm sweaty, but good. I have. I'm finished, more or less after this. I'm going to finish and turn in my last thing for my work training that's been going for three weeks, and that will be beautiful. I have been to the films a few times. I am, you know, just stoked. Also, what's crazy is that, like, you know, normally I'm a big, like, birthday gal, right? I'm like, you know, I have a birthday month. Instead of just like, celebrate my birthday, or you gotta. You gotta hail yourself into it. [00:31:56] Speaker A: You gotta do it. [00:31:56] Speaker B: Yeah, right. Exactly. That. Heading into the last birthday of my thirties and all that kind of stuff. And I have, like, thought zero about it because we have the meetup at the end of the month, and so all my energy has gone into that. And then I was like, oh, shit, it's my birthday in, like, two weeks. [00:32:13] Speaker A: Or somewhere in there, you're gonna have a great bunch of lads to celebrate with. [00:32:17] Speaker B: Yes, a belated celebration, but I'm just trying to think of, like, what I want to do now. I mean, I've already got stuff planned out around it. There's an Empire records musical that has opened, and so we're gonna go see. [00:32:34] Speaker A: Seems like the kind of thing you'd enjoy. [00:32:36] Speaker B: Yes, very up my alley. So gonna go see that I also. Crowded house is playing at this amazing venue. Mark, you would love this place. This is so New York and so gorgeous. It is the rooftop at pier 17, I think it is. And I saw Nickel Creek here last year, and it is literally underneath the Brooklyn bridge. So you have this incredible view behind the stage of the bridge. It's outdoor, really nice, and the disabled section has its own little bar, so I can go get my little colas and all of that kind of stuff. And it's a really nice view from that section, which is wonderful. And so I got myself a solo ticket to go see crowded house, this place, and just enjoy myself. [00:33:25] Speaker A: I have time for crowded house. I think they have some wonderful, wonderful songs. [00:33:29] Speaker B: They really do. I was surprised the other day when we were recording our snack that I started idly singing a crowded house song. And you went with it. I was like, hey, yes. [00:33:40] Speaker A: Good band. [00:33:41] Speaker B: Okay. I freaking love crowded house. One of my, like, really proud moments was that, you know, I used to every now and again, do, like, a little cover and post it on YouTube, but just so I could post it to Facebook for my friends to see. [00:33:53] Speaker A: I've seen some of those. [00:33:55] Speaker B: I did one of. One of their songs, and Neil Finn posted it to his socials. I was like, oh, that is nice. [00:34:04] Speaker A: Yes, that is nice. [00:34:05] Speaker B: This is the greatest thing that has ever happened to me as a giant Neil Finn Stan. I listen to his other projects, too. I, you know, pajama club and all kinds. Stuff like that. I listen to his son's stuff. I'm like a. I'm a Finn stan, all the way through. [00:34:19] Speaker A: Finn family. [00:34:21] Speaker B: Mm hmm. Yep. How you doing, Mark? [00:34:24] Speaker A: Look, hey. I mean, I am ready for my holiday, I'll tell you that. [00:34:29] Speaker B: Love that. To Bulgaria. [00:34:31] Speaker A: Yes. But look, youre a. You're the only person who's responded with confusion and befuddlement when I say, I'm. [00:34:40] Speaker B: Going to, this is definitely okay. Every American that I've mentioned this to has been like, Bulgaria. [00:34:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:47] Speaker B: So I think it's just, we don't consider that a destination. [00:34:50] Speaker A: Every. Every Brit who I've mentioned it to has gone, oh, yeah. Apparently it's really nice. Apparently it's taken off recently. [00:34:56] Speaker B: So, yeah, this cultural differences. This is a place that no American would think to go. [00:35:02] Speaker A: But, yeah, I mean, there. There are signs, aren't there? When you're ready for a break. Yeah, you know, there are definite signs. I'm snapping at my colleagues in work, and I really am right. I behaved like an absolute dick to some people on Friday that said they didn't do something that I asked them not to, you know, to do. So. [00:35:32] Speaker B: Right. You know, may have been a little deserved, but. [00:35:35] Speaker A: But, yeah, I'm quite short tempered, quite snappy at work. It's been quite a challenging summer. Like I said, I think I might have mentioned to you earlier on that Marco's hierarchy of needs isn't getting dealt with at all this summer. [00:35:52] Speaker B: Right. [00:35:52] Speaker A: You know, the kids are demanding and work is fucking ridiculous and various other bits and bobs. So I'm ready for break. I'm doing okay. I'm coping. [00:36:01] Speaker B: Is it harder now that the kids are older? Like, do they actually need, like, a little more from you in the summer than they did when they were younger? [00:36:08] Speaker A: Yeah, maybe. Maybe I was being naive. Maybe I was being, you know, idealistic in thinking that as they got older, they would tend to one another and. [00:36:23] Speaker B: Right. [00:36:24] Speaker A: You know, and. And fend for one another and always be on one another's side and play with one another and just stimulate and creatively kind of, you know, just. Just have one another's backs. But what they do instead is they kind of play Minecraft together for ten minutes and then fucking argue. And Owen inevitably ends up crying because. [00:36:42] Speaker B: You know, Owen because little brother. [00:36:46] Speaker A: Because. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But so, yeah, that's been challenging. And I. I've just been. I've felt like I'm spread quite thinly. [00:36:55] Speaker B: Yeah, that makes sense. [00:36:57] Speaker A: But on the other hand. On the other hand, I'm exercising where I can. My behaviors are remaining wholesome. [00:37:07] Speaker B: Love that. [00:37:12] Speaker A: I think I'm doing okay. But that said, I'm ready for a break. I'm ready for a fucking holiday. [00:37:16] Speaker B: Yeah, it's definitely time to just chill out. [00:37:18] Speaker A: Yes. [00:37:19] Speaker B: Go to the pool. [00:37:20] Speaker A: Exactly. This. [00:37:21] Speaker B: Maybe put some sunscreen on that head of yours and get a tan. [00:37:25] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:37:27] Speaker B: You always stress me out every time you go on vacation and come back, like, covered in mosquito welts and sunburn. I'm like, these things are preventable. [00:37:35] Speaker A: I'm suffering from a delusion whereby my body refuses to accept that it's bald and 46. [00:37:41] Speaker B: Right. [00:37:42] Speaker A: You know, I've damaged my fucking cortex somewhere and I still have a full head of hair, and I'm in my early twenties. Overwhelming physical evidence to the contrary. But, yeah, maybe this will be the year that I wise up and actually put some fucking pizz Boen on my fucking head. [00:37:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Some what? [00:38:01] Speaker A: Pizz booing. It's a brand of suntan lotion. [00:38:05] Speaker B: Pizz booing. [00:38:07] Speaker A: Right now I fucking question myself. Hang on. Do do do do. [00:38:13] Speaker B: I mean, you're probably right. It's just not, like, the most appealing name of anyone. [00:38:17] Speaker A: Yep. Moisturizing. [00:38:19] Speaker B: How do you spell that? [00:38:20] Speaker A: P I Z. Okay, new word. B u I n u I N. All right. Didn't make it up. [00:38:31] Speaker B: I'm gonna accept it. I wasn't accusing you of making it up. It's just not a brand name I would come up with. It's like every now and again you hear a brand and you're like, why'd. [00:38:40] Speaker A: They pick that up? Yeah. [00:38:42] Speaker B: Not what I would have chosen to advertise my product. What's that? There's one. Oh, man. Oh. Like, there's a men's supplement here that they have commercials for all the time. And it usually has, like, retired sportsmen in it. Like, I think, like Joe Montana, who's an NFL player, who is big in the nineties, does these, like, you know, it's all this, like, you know, get your testosterone pumping and Joe Montana. Manly, manly. [00:39:09] Speaker A: The baze. [00:39:12] Speaker B: Maybe. I want to say dolphins, but I'm not sure. I do not follow NFL. [00:39:19] Speaker A: NFL had a fucking huge phase of being wildly popular over here, like 15 years ago. [00:39:25] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I feel like it's. It's much like wrestling, you know, where it's like there was just a period where it didn't matter who you were or where you were, you just. Yeah, I knew about it. And I think, yeah, football at that point when he was big was huge. But anyway, the product is called nugenics. Like, why fucking yikes. [00:39:51] Speaker A: That. [00:39:52] Speaker B: Why did you call it that? Every time I hear it, I'm like, why? It's so wild to me. It's all the names in the world. [00:40:04] Speaker A: For your hermit girls. [00:40:05] Speaker B: Manly man supplement of choice. [00:40:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:08] Speaker B: And you went with Nugenix. [00:40:10] Speaker A: My favorite over the counter health aid is there's a particular brand of ass cream over here, like hemorrhoid cream called anosol. [00:40:21] Speaker B: I think we have that one too. [00:40:23] Speaker A: Anosol. [00:40:27] Speaker B: It's like, it's just built to make you not want to go to the character with it. [00:40:31] Speaker A: Come on. You know, you talk about the importance of men's health. Make it fucking easy. Don't call it fucking anus. [00:40:37] Speaker B: All just like going up to the counter and the cashier just be like, we get a price check on the anusol. Like, there's no. No plausible deniability here. It's for my cat. [00:40:54] Speaker A: Yes. [00:40:56] Speaker B: Yeah. There's also another one that I can't think of exactly what it is, but it def. Oh, ace. I p H E x. Assifex. [00:41:07] Speaker A: Oh, no. [00:41:09] Speaker B: I don't know what it's for, but every time I'm, like, looking down, like, because there's a lot of medicine commercials during, like, jeopardy. Because it shows for old people. Or it used to be anyway, and looking down a bit. SFX. Sorry. [00:41:28] Speaker A: A type of american commercial, as you would say, that we simply don't have really over here. And it seemed to be every other, you know, when we were in the Caribbean a couple of years back and the kids were fucking. Just fascinated with game show. Fucking game show network. [00:41:45] Speaker B: It's the best. [00:41:46] Speaker A: Loved it. And we, you know, we all got sucked in in the evenings. We would just watch fucking episode after episode of Family Food. Yes. [00:41:53] Speaker B: That's what it's made for. Like, that's why I love GSN is it's like everyone can gather around and sit and just like, house episodes of Family Feud forever. [00:42:02] Speaker A: But every other ad break was like, fucking Tom Selleck or somebody reverse mortgages. Exactly this. Exactly this. Tom Selleck and his fake grandkids. Yeah. I'm able to give something back. You're Tom Selleck. You're fucking Magnum. You fucking. You don't tell me you've got a hawk. Your house, right. While you're still alive. But, yeah, that's the. [00:42:25] Speaker B: Actually, he does the same ads that Alex Trebek from Jeopardy. Used to do. I think it's colonial pen, something like that. Yeah, it is amazing. Those guys that you're like, surely, like, you couldn't have been that bad with your money that you have to be doing these commercials. Like, really? [00:42:42] Speaker A: But I don't know. Interestingly, second time I've mentioned Magnum PI this weekend. Oh. Oh, it hasn't. He's got a new set of pajamas that are kind of hawaiian looking. And fucking look, a Magnum PI over there. No idea what I'm talking about. [00:43:00] Speaker B: No frame of reference for that. I think there's currently a Magnum PI show on right now. [00:43:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I did see that it had a remake. [00:43:10] Speaker B: I've never seen it, but it's on CB's, so it'll run for 37 seasons. And if you ask a 50 year old woman from Wisconsin, she'll have watched every episode. [00:43:21] Speaker A: Tell you, a recent remake that was way better than I had hoped was quantum leap. Very good? [00:43:26] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Is that over? Is it still going? [00:43:29] Speaker A: Sadly cancelled. It lasted two seasons, but it had the spirit of the OG. [00:43:36] Speaker B: Nailed. [00:43:37] Speaker A: It was bang on. Really. [00:43:39] Speaker B: I did want to watch this one, but I'm terrible at watching network television. Just, you know, hard to keep up with. But I'm sure I'll watch it someday when it's on a streaming service. But there's, like, channels that still play old quantum leap. And as a result every now and again. It's just like, it's such comfort food to jump into an episode of that. Although, like, 75% of the time that comfort food leaves me crying at some point during the episode. [00:44:08] Speaker A: But I vividly, vividly, vividly remember the gut punch that final episode had on me. It devastated me, man. I sobbed. I kind of. I kind of been. I must have been like 16, maybe 1516. [00:44:21] Speaker B: Sure. [00:44:22] Speaker A: And it absolutely fucking ruined me. [00:44:25] Speaker B: Yeah. It's one that I can remember being. I mean, I was obviously very young at this point, you know, like nine or, you know, somewhere in that vicinity. And being amongst the early things to. Yeah. Absolutely devastate me. [00:44:40] Speaker A: Oh, and huge ideas. [00:44:42] Speaker B: Heart hurts from tv. [00:44:43] Speaker A: Massive metaphysical concepts thrown at you in that last episode. Yeah. Super affecting. Really cool. [00:44:51] Speaker B: Yep. I love quantum leap very much. [00:44:53] Speaker A: How many weeks is it till I come to that room that you're in now? [00:44:56] Speaker B: Ooh, that's a very good question. We are just. We are one month and eight days until you get here. Isn't that wild? [00:45:08] Speaker A: That is good. Did you. I didn't see you pull up anything to look at there. Did you have that in memory? [00:45:14] Speaker B: There's. The date is in the corner of my computer. That's what I was staring at. Wasn't. No, absolutely not. Because we know I'm not picturing anything. [00:45:24] Speaker A: No, that's true. [00:45:25] Speaker B: Looking at the calendar. Yeah. And in preparation for that, of course, we have a watch along coming. Specifically one last NYC themed watch along for mark before he gets here to see it in person for the first time in 30 years. [00:45:42] Speaker A: 31St of this month. It's a Saturday. It's a week Saturday, I believe that sounds right. Yeah. August 31. NYC themed watch along. What are the big NYC horrors? What comes to mind when I. [00:45:59] Speaker B: There's so many, it's hard to listen. [00:46:03] Speaker A: Such as? [00:46:04] Speaker B: Well, I mean, you just watched one of the ones with Belial. [00:46:09] Speaker A: Basket case. [00:46:10] Speaker B: Yeah, basket case. Obviously. You've got your ghostbusters. Of course. [00:46:16] Speaker A: Drill. [00:46:16] Speaker B: A killer. I want to say probably I don't. Killer in New York. I think it might be okay. Maybe. I feel like, honestly, when I turn on a horror movie from the, like, eighties or nineties, if it's not like something that's set at, like, a summer camp or in a mall, it is probably New York City. I'm constantly turning things on and being like, oh, it's another New York horror movie. So the possibilities seem endless here. Trying to find a list of New York horror. [00:46:52] Speaker A: No, I want to see if driller killer is. Yep. It is indeed late seventies New York. [00:46:57] Speaker B: Nice. Okay, there you go. Yes. Yes. So we're gonna be looking for suggestions from all of yous on this, and we're gonna try. I was telling Mark before this that at book club the other day, which was wonderful, of course, was this Maeve fly. Maeve Fly. Which I ended up not liking, but lots of people did. And honestly, this is one of the things I love about the book club is that, like, we can be on, like, complete opposite ends of the spectrum on what we think of a book and just end up having, like, an amazing conversation as a result. [00:47:31] Speaker A: That's the great thing about self aware, fucking highly erudite, and, you know, educated, fucking smooth, handsome people that listen to our show. You know, you can hold conflicting ideas and discuss them both without getting pissy, you know, and without going out. [00:47:54] Speaker B: Exactly. Taking it personally. [00:47:56] Speaker A: You can just talk things through, think things through, examine things, you know, hold an idea and sit with it and fucking sniff it and check it out. [00:48:04] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think Maeve Fly really lent to that with this book because of kind of different interpretations of it and all that. That, yeah. Were really fun to talk about, coming from differing perspectives on, you know, how well it pulled off the things that it was doing and what it trying to do in and of itself was a question. So we were. Where was I going with this? Who's it by? Cj leed or l e e d e? I think there are things I think you would like about it. I really like the first third of the book. And then it kind of lost me. [00:48:44] Speaker A: Without spoiling anything, just give me a one line. What's the premise? [00:48:50] Speaker B: It is. Okay. A woman who plays basically a character from Frozen at Disneyland, although, of course, they can't say that for legal reasons, is secretly harboring various sociopathic inclinations. That's kind of the basic. It's basically kind of like female american psycho. [00:49:17] Speaker A: That is exactly the vibe that I got. Yes. Okay. [00:49:21] Speaker B: Yeah. In many ways. You know, it's got a lot of influences, and amongst them is definitely clearly american psycho. I think that's, like, the best way to describe it, is kind of. It's if Patrick Bateman were a woman who worked at Disneyland, essentially. [00:49:35] Speaker A: That's actually a really good pitch. [00:49:37] Speaker B: It is, yeah, it really is. So. Oh, what I was going to say about this is that people in the book club were saying that when we post things in the Facebook group, thanks to the good old Facebook algorithm, a lot of times they don't see it for, like, five or six days after we've posted things right. Which, of course, one of my suggestions, folks, is make sure that you, like, do the little settings thing and try to, you know, say you want to see posts from, like, a lot of posts from the jack of all graves. [00:50:08] Speaker A: Group, so that they're all good as fucked. [00:50:11] Speaker B: They're all good. So, you know, if you want to make sure that you see them and that the algorithm doesn't filter them out, make sure that you select that so that you see them. [00:50:20] Speaker A: I would just like to reiterate that I am always super grateful and really validated and just proud when people come to our Facebook group with the stories that they've found across the Internet or with the fucking 100%, you know, fucked up thoughts that they've had on a Tuesday afternoon, you know what I mean? That they jump on and share that with us. So please carry on doing that, because I fucking love our Facebook community. It's always a source of real fun for me. So, yeah, thanks to everyone who contributes, and please continue to do so. [00:50:52] Speaker B: I love the idea of, like, you know, people have always had that, you know, where do I go with this? [00:50:56] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Yes. [00:50:58] Speaker B: You know, who do I tell this to? Yeah, you know, you now have a place to put that thing that you cannot share around the water cooler or talk to your partner about anything like that. It is the Jack Palgraves Facebook group. And, yeah, I really enjoy that, too, but. So we're gonna try to put Kareem McCaffrey. Exactly. We're gonna try to put the poll up a little bit earlier just so that people and, like, make it last a little longer than the 24 hours, just so that people have a chance to vote in it, who don't get to see the poll until it shows up on their timeline four or five days later. So we will keep an eye out for that. We will put the poll up, and you will be able to pick. But, yeah, till that point, give us your suggestions. If you have a New York City movie that you think we should absolutely watch as a crew, pop that into the Facebook group or Instagram comments or in our discord. We're not great at checking our discord, but I will eventually see it. Make sure one of us checks it before the poll goes up and, yeah, we'll go from there. [00:52:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Yep, yep, yep, yep. [00:52:07] Speaker B: 31St August 31. [00:52:08] Speaker A: So, book club. We put a snack up this week, did we not? [00:52:12] Speaker B: We did put a snack up. I went a little crazy on the graphic. I was just having a fun time with that. That's a little over the top, but our first snack to the future in which we talk about running man, is up on the Ko fi for anyone who supports an a 25 or higher. So we thank you for doing the right thing and supporting this podcast. This is always because we started this podcast at the end of August. This is the time of year where all the subscriptions to everything come up. And so it's $150 here for this, $150 there for that, stuff like that. And so it's really clutch that people support us. And I have a way to pay off all of the many hosting things and places that we keep our videos and storage and all that stuff. [00:53:00] Speaker A: Does that mean we're coming up to a birthday, then? We must be Muslim. [00:53:02] Speaker B: We are. In fact, it might be the 31st one of these years. I'll remember, but I'm pretty sure it's like, the 30th or 31st is our birthday. [00:53:11] Speaker A: And is this our fourth birthday? [00:53:13] Speaker B: Fourth birthday. [00:53:14] Speaker A: Fucking insane. [00:53:16] Speaker B: Crazy, right? [00:53:19] Speaker A: Insane. [00:53:20] Speaker B: It's wild because, you know, Hannah, we've said before, has been listening back through the whole catalog, right? And she's been doing this for months. And she said that she does this for 8 hours a day, three days a week, and she is now almost exactly a year behind where we are. And it is bananas that we have talked that much. [00:53:44] Speaker A: That's crazy. [00:53:46] Speaker B: And that someone would listen to it, for that matter. But that we have spent that many. [00:53:51] Speaker A: Hours talking to super quickly crunch some numbers here. Right? If we. Let's just say that, like, we do 2 hours an episode roughly. [00:53:59] Speaker B: Okay. [00:54:00] Speaker A: And we're on how many episodes? 190 odd. [00:54:03] Speaker B: 194. [00:54:05] Speaker A: So I'm just gonna tap into my little quantum computer here. So there's something like 400 odd hours of us conversing out there. [00:54:23] Speaker B: That's a lot of hours. [00:54:24] Speaker A: That's fucking mad shit. [00:54:27] Speaker B: That is a ton of hours. And many of you have listened to every single one of those hours. You guys are the MVP's. [00:54:36] Speaker A: Yeah, dude. [00:54:40] Speaker B: It's impressive because I don't know that anyone has started from the beginning this far in. We've definitely had people who have for sure marathoned everything, but not this far into it. So that is some dedication, and it really is. Hats off. [00:54:58] Speaker A: I think Hannah deserves some kind of badge. [00:55:00] Speaker B: Yeah, like a prize. Yeah, a badge. Something of that nature. We'll figure it out. We'll figure out what you get at the end of nearly 200 episodes, apart from existential dread. Also because Mark is going on vacation to Bulgaria next week. [00:55:24] Speaker A: Really? Not that funny. [00:55:28] Speaker B: I'm sorry. Hollywood Steve and Anna Martin are coming to fill in next week and it should be a wonderful time with our darling Hellrankers crew before we all meet up to have a wonderful time in September. It's always a blast having each of them. We've never had both of them at the same time, so it should be fun. I'm gonna see this week if one of them wants to cold open or not. Steve has never cold opened on this show. [00:56:00] Speaker A: Nice. [00:56:00] Speaker B: So that could be kind of fun. But I will check in with them. But either way, it's gonna be a super fun joag with the Hellrankers. [00:56:09] Speaker A: Yes. It'll be a trip down memory lane with Anna in the co presenting seat again. [00:56:14] Speaker B: Exactly. Which about this time last year she relinquished back to you, so. [00:56:21] Speaker A: Ah, man, such a lot of memories. Corrie, we've. [00:56:26] Speaker B: A lot has happened in the four years that we've been doing this thing. [00:56:29] Speaker A: Yep. I was it on the running man snack a couple of days back when I was, you know, looking at early youtubes and I'm unrecognizable. [00:56:43] Speaker B: Do you think? [00:56:44] Speaker A: I do? Yeah. I mean, I'm not the same fucking guy I was four years ago. [00:56:49] Speaker B: Right. [00:56:51] Speaker A: A lot has changed for me and I. I don't know, I wonder if I were to listen to some of those early episodes, what. What impression. Yeah. I would get of that fellow. [00:57:02] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. Yeah. That's interesting. [00:57:05] Speaker A: Obviously, I'm not gonna do that. [00:57:08] Speaker B: Right. But theoretically, there's no way to possibly know what you'd think of that, Mark. Impossible. But what a thought experiment. [00:57:19] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm wondering, how long do podcasts last on average? I mean, if we've done. [00:57:28] Speaker B: I think we figured that out very early on, and it's not very long. It's like seven episodes or something. [00:57:35] Speaker A: Incredible. [00:57:36] Speaker B: Yeah. So I remember, like, once we got to ten, like, you were like, whoa, this is like the longest I've done anything. And also you looked up stats and. [00:57:47] Speaker A: We'Re like, yeah, here we go. [00:57:47] Speaker B: Podcast. Don't. [00:57:48] Speaker A: 90% of podcasts don't get more than three episodes. [00:57:55] Speaker B: Crushed it. [00:57:56] Speaker A: Yes, indeed. Very much so. [00:57:59] Speaker B: Yeah. So we're still kicking with no plans to slow down, just more plans to hang out with our dear friends and hang out with each other and be beefs. [00:58:08] Speaker A: Yep, yep, yep. Um, I was. I mentioned. I think it was last week that I mentioned Elm street, uh, turning 40. There's a fantastic 4k release of Elm street finally coming up in September. They've, um. Whoever's releasing it now has gone all in on a. On a. On a 4k blu ray with, you know, a lovely package with art and fucking new commentaries and a steelbook and postcards and all that good shit. [00:58:37] Speaker B: It's probably for the best that we have no 4k tvs in this house, because otherwise I would spend lots of money on things like that. [00:58:44] Speaker A: Well, you know, I've talked to me. I've talked to you about my shelf before, my philosophy of the shelf. And if it's on the shelf, then it's, you know, it's got to be special because shelf space is limited. So if it's up there, it's got to have a damn good reason to be up there. And I'm already looking at my shelf from here right now to see what. [00:59:02] Speaker B: Seeing what's gonna get squeezed. [00:59:04] Speaker A: Yeah. Something's gonna get bumped for that box. It looks beautiful. Looks fucking. [00:59:10] Speaker B: It's an important decision. [00:59:11] Speaker A: Mmm. And do you know what? Three people now, three people separately, who've seen Romulus have all commented to me that fede has now. Absolutely. He is number one in the fucking fan's choice to step up and deliver on the street. He, you know. [00:59:33] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. [00:59:35] Speaker A: Can you imagine? Do you know, I was. I thought of this earlier on today in. Just in the kitchen while I was fucking loading the dishwasher, right? And I. I got goosebumps on my arm imagining it being announced. If that. If that were. If that were to be a thing, if that were to be his next move or even, like, one or two down the line, I would. It would fucking. It would change the course of my life. If that were. [01:00:01] Speaker B: Yeah, basically. [01:00:02] Speaker A: It would be the most beautiful thing. [01:00:04] Speaker B: Oh, man. We can. Yeah. Definitely hope for that. I don't think that's out of the realm of possibility by any stretch of the imagination. He's done. He's done evil dead. He's done Texas. He's done this. Like, why not? [01:00:17] Speaker A: I think he produced Texas. I don't think he directed. [01:00:20] Speaker B: Did he nothing. [01:00:20] Speaker A: No. [01:00:21] Speaker B: Did he not direct Texas? Okay, fair enough. [01:00:23] Speaker A: Which I'm. Which I'm glad. I don't think it was anyone of any big renown. He was definitely a producer, but it was directed by David Blue Guthrie. [01:00:42] Speaker B: Hmm. Nope. [01:00:43] Speaker A: Not ring any bells? [01:00:44] Speaker B: Mm hmm. I don't think so. [01:00:46] Speaker A: Let's see. Nah, nothing. Nothing that I recognize. [01:00:52] Speaker B: Okay, fair enough. Well, still. Yeah, I think it's completely within the realm of possibility that we'll see. [01:01:00] Speaker A: Plausible, doesn't it? [01:01:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Just to transition straight into what we watch, since we're talking Romulus, obviously, I'm not gonna say a ton about it because you're not seeing it until tomorrow. Yeah. But I absolutely loved it. I went and, you know, the local theater, the indie theater that I usually go to has not huge screens in it. And I was like, this is like a big screen, big screen movie. So while I was in Manhattan the other day, I went and saw an IMAX and, oh, it was absolutely worth it. It was phenomenal to just be completely immersed in it. It was terrifying. First time in a long time I've been in a theater where people screamed multiple times during the movie, like, actually let out screams because they were so scared. Yeah, I had a blast. People have complaints about. I mean, I think there's a degree to which, sure, complaints are warranted. I think people who are like one star fan service, bleh. Are being ridiculous. This movie is so much fun. Yeah, I can't wait until you can talk about it more. [01:02:09] Speaker A: I've never had fomo to this degree about a movie. And I mean that. I mean, I mean that in every word that I say, I've never had fomo to this degree. Everybody who's seen it has. Everybody that I know who's seen it has loved it. People whose opinions I value, whose tastes I, you know, are in line with mine. My good friend Dan has texted me today going, look, it's. It's a mark of a real fucking quality movie when you're still thinking about it, you know, a couple of days after you've seen it. And it's. And I've stayed completely spoiler free. I've seen one fucking trailer and I. Yeah, 24 hours. Just 24 hours to go. [01:02:48] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think, like, the thing about this movie is that it kind of transcends the spoiler anyway. [01:02:53] Speaker A: Okay. [01:02:55] Speaker B: That, like, like, obviously you don't want to know what happens, but, like, if someone were to let something slip, that's not where the enjoyment of this movie comes from because it is such a tense ride and, you know, it's. Yeah, it just sucks you completely and it's engulfing. You are a part of what's going on in this movie, and it feels someone was pointing out on blue sky. You know, it's like, this is a movie made by someone who is not trying to, like, basically, who is a fan, right. And who loves the original movies and who doesn't, like, loathe where it's gone since then and is trying to bridge these different parts of the franchise and do so lovingly. And I think it really succeeds in doing that in a lot of really cool ways. So I can't wait till you see that and we can really get into it. Maybe. I mean, you have to go on vacation soon. Maybe we'll get a chance to talk about it before you leave and record something. Maybe during a let's play or something like that. Just talk about. Talk through this movie. We'll see. But, boy, I cannot wait for you to see it. I have fomo for you. [01:04:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Cannot wait. It's gonna make me complete. [01:04:15] Speaker B: Yes. [01:04:15] Speaker A: Yes. [01:04:17] Speaker B: It's what you need. [01:04:18] Speaker A: Yep. I completely agree. What else have you seen? [01:04:21] Speaker B: I also went to the movies again today because I've wanted to see trapdoo, the M. Night Shyamalan movie. And, you know, movies come and go so quickly in the theaters. It didn't come to the indie theaters, only at the AMC. So I was like, I have to get to this before it's gone. If you don't know. [01:04:40] Speaker A: See, that is. It is wild to me that you will beat a path to the fucking theater to see an M. Night movie in 2024. [01:04:49] Speaker B: Because, I mean, I like to see. [01:04:52] Speaker A: It feels like you could just wait to pick that one up on tv. [01:04:55] Speaker B: I don't. I don't do that. I love to see a horror movie in the theater. If it's there, I'm going, you know, like, unless it's, like, really, like, really doesn't appeal to me or has terrible word of mouth if there's a horror movie in the theater. I have always, in my entire adult life, gone and seen it in the movie theater. And so, yeah, I was like, I'm going to go see trap, which is a movie in which Josh Hartnett plays a father taking his daughter to a performance of, you know, kind of the Taylor Swift of the Shyamalan universe. And while there, finds out that this is a trap that has been set for a serial killer that they know is going to be in attendance, and that serial killer is him. And so you're watching him try to figure out how he is going to get out of this concert, knowing that they have covered every exit, every possible way to get out of there. [01:05:55] Speaker A: Right. M. Night films don't stop him are only one word titles. Go signs. Old trap. [01:06:05] Speaker B: Trap. Yep. [01:06:06] Speaker A: Split. [01:06:07] Speaker B: Split glass. [01:06:09] Speaker A: Unbreakable glass. [01:06:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:12] Speaker A: Are they all one word? [01:06:13] Speaker B: Apart from the 6th sense of no. Cause then there's the village and the woman in the water. [01:06:19] Speaker A: Fine. Okay. [01:06:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess you could argue, too, that unbreakable, split, and glass are all in the same franchise or whatever. So that's why they all have a one word title. And obviously the full title of old is the beach. That makes you old. [01:06:36] Speaker A: Of course it is. That's a really long title, isn't it? [01:06:39] Speaker B: Yeah. He's really gotta learn to cut it down realistically. Yeah, the. [01:06:48] Speaker A: When you go on the beach, not young anymore. [01:06:59] Speaker B: Beautiful. You should really be contracting out the. [01:07:03] Speaker A: Soundtracks, the theme song. [01:07:06] Speaker B: That's what. It's busy. If it were an eighties movie, it would absolutely have that exact theme over the end credits. [01:07:14] Speaker A: I would want insane clown posse to do it. [01:07:18] Speaker B: That's more of, like, if it was made in 2002. [01:07:21] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. [01:07:22] Speaker B: It's like ghost ship and mud vein, but yeah, trap was. Listen, it is better than a lot of Shyamalan offerings, and I think my thing with it is it was like, it was fun. And I think this movie will be in my rotation at Halloween time every year. Like, it's a good little, like, mindless, fun, tense thriller of sorts, you know? So, yeah, I like on a, like, basic level, like, this is a fun ride. Absolutely. Get into it. It doesn't have, like, a dumb twist or anything like that. [01:08:03] Speaker A: I was about to guess the twist. [01:08:05] Speaker B: Yeah, there's no. There's no crazy twist in it. It is the movie that it's going to be. No. [01:08:11] Speaker A: That's disappointing. [01:08:13] Speaker B: I'm happy for it. I'm. The twist is Ebnite Shyamalan didn't put a twist in his movie. It's the movie you think it's going to be. Boom. No, I think it works out really well that it's, I was going to. [01:08:25] Speaker A: Say forward, you know, maybe. Oh, is the real killer, like his wife, who he's covering for? [01:08:32] Speaker B: I had started a big, like, I had kind of a viral ish blue sky post in which I made a comment about, you know, that there will be a dumb twist in this movie and people were spitballing dumb twist for it. But I think most of us, our assumption, we're gonna be like, it's somehow the daughter. The daughter is gonna be. [01:08:51] Speaker A: Yeah. A viral blue sky post. So nine reposts. [01:08:55] Speaker B: Nine reposts on it. Right. Dude, I had one a couple weeks ago that, like, I had to mute it because it was like, I caught, like, thousands of likes and reposts on it and I was like, I didn't even know there were that many people here. How did this happen? So, yeah, anyway, but, yeah, I think my thing with this movie is it has very silly flaws to it. For one, it feels kind of incomplete. The sound design isn't very good. So there's a lot of times when you're like, there should be more sounds happening than there are. And it's so. It sounds too empty. There's a part where the daughter is, like, filming something on her cell phone, but they didn't bother to put anything on the phone. It's clearly off. Oh, there's just, like, weird post production stuff in this that you're like, eh. Also, it's got, like, standard m night dialogue that, like, you're like, has he ever met a human person before? People don't talk like that. Yeah, there's, like, little things like that you can quibble with and stuff like that. But if you're just looking for, like, kind of a fun, tense movie where you get to see hot dad Josh Hartnett be a deviant serial killer and at one point take off his shirt for no reason except a nod to the audience, like, hey, thanks for being here. It is a fun ride that I say. Absolutely watch. You don't have to go see it in the theater, but absolutely watch. Trap. It's a fun time. [01:10:28] Speaker A: I am looking forward to stealing it. [01:10:31] Speaker B: Yes. Right. [01:10:32] Speaker A: Just absolutely, unashamedly thefting it off the Internet. [01:10:37] Speaker B: That's what I'm gonna do. Yeah. And I think, yeah, it's worth your $0. You'll have. You'll have fun enough time with it, you know? [01:10:45] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, as we've said many, many times, I even. Even though, like, I probably like one in every ten of his movies, you know, you gotta respect the fucking hustle. Is he in it? Has he managed to insert himself in it? [01:10:58] Speaker B: Of course. The singer is his daughter. That's another one of the sort of flaws of this movie is that she sings great, beautiful voice acting. And probably the casting would have been a little better if it was someone other than his daughter. But again, you're like, listen, this is a guy who wants to help his kids out, give them a leg up, and you get it. Yeah. So he does have a cameo in this, but it's not, like, signs where he's, like, the pivotal, like, scene of the movie or anything like that. He's, you know, he's just sort of a guy in it. [01:11:39] Speaker A: Okay. [01:11:40] Speaker B: All right. The only other thing that I watched this week, I asked you to put Waterworld on the plex for me. I can't totally. I'm not sure exactly what it was that, like, said to my brain, you need to watch Waterworld. But it was. [01:12:00] Speaker A: Well, you kind of left your own devices in a hotel room, weren't you? [01:12:04] Speaker B: Yeah, that might have been the case. [01:12:06] Speaker A: The mind wandering. [01:12:06] Speaker B: That wasn't even when I watched it. [01:12:07] Speaker A: Plays tricks on you. [01:12:09] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's definitely. You're right. That was what was going on when I was just sitting there like, half asleep, watching Citizen Kane in a hotel room. And for some reason, while watching one of the greatest movies of all time, I was like, I need Waterworld, and texted you about that. No, I have never. I had never seen Waterworld before. I think, you know, I've seen pieces. [01:12:33] Speaker A: Of it all the fucking times to decide, you want to commit to water world. [01:12:38] Speaker B: This is. I need to watch this now. I'd seen bits of it on tv because it was definitely one of those ones that was airing all the time when I was a kid, but I'd never seen this thing from start to finish before, but I have. You've never seen it? [01:12:54] Speaker A: Nah. [01:12:55] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm not about to recommend it, just FYI. But I have seen the Waterworld live stunt spectacular at Universal Studios dozens of times. If you have never seen it before. [01:13:14] Speaker A: And is that still there, surely that's. [01:13:16] Speaker B: The price of admission. It's the longest running attraction at Universal Studios. It's been there for nearly 30 years now. Yes. And it's incredible. It is worth going to Universal Studios. [01:13:29] Speaker A: Seeded from cultural consciousness. [01:13:32] Speaker B: It is, yeah. Like, more people have probably gone to this attraction at this point than have seen Waterworld. It's worth the price of admission just for that show. It is so goddamn fun. If you're from Southern California, you probably have, like, the opening dialogue of it memorized. It's so great. In fact. Oh, you'll love this. So the thing about Universal Studios is it's often like a stepping stone for actors, right? A lot of people work there when they want to break into Hollywood, especially on the backlot tour. [01:14:05] Speaker A: Yeah, okay. [01:14:06] Speaker B: But they have stunt shows and all this stuff also, people supplement their income. Like, if you're a Hollywood stunt man, you're not making a ton of money, right? So you can do shows at Universal Studios as, like, your day job, and they're going to make, like, sort of allowances for, well, we want our people in our shows to be working in Hollywood. So if you need days off to go shoot, they'll give them to you. So it's a really good, like, symbiotic relationship that they have going on as such. They'll go through and they'll be like, at the end of the Waterworld show, they're like, and playing the mariner is so and so. You've seen him on this show, this show, this show playing. And, you know, they go through and you're like, wow, I'm seeing a real actors. My friend Tracy informed me yesterday that one of the guys, he's like, you don't realize this, but I'm sure you've seen him. If you've gone to this show a bunch of times, is Christopher Daniels. Well, the fucking w. No way. And as soon as he said it, I was like, oh, yes, absolutely. Like, he's. Because they're all. It's the person who plays Dennis Hopper's character in this. And so anytime you see kind of like a white bald guy in Hollywood doing stunts and stuff, you're like, yeah, that guy definitely played that role. And so he was like, oh, yeah, fun fact. I was like, that's crazy. I'm sure I've seen him before. [01:15:37] Speaker A: That's awesome. [01:15:38] Speaker B: Many, many times I wonder, is he still doing that? Huh? [01:15:42] Speaker A: And he's still. [01:15:42] Speaker B: I don't know if he does it right now, because I would imagine AeW tours too much for. [01:15:47] Speaker A: And pays quite well. [01:15:48] Speaker B: That would be the case. And pays quite well. Yeah, this would have been more like if he was working, trying to work as an actor or things like that. So it's probably been a minute, but I thought that was very cool. [01:15:59] Speaker A: Yes, you were correct. [01:16:00] Speaker B: So Waterworld, spectacular. Fucking love it. I had a universal pass for years and would just go every single time on the film. And honestly, just FYI, underrated. Get a universal pass. Don't get a Disneyland pass. Way better use of your money. So much more fun. Everybody is more chill because there's alcohol. So the parents aren't as mad all the time as they are at Disneyland. There's all kinds of cool rides. You get a lot of steps in because it's built on a hill and you get to do the back lot tour, and you never know what's going to be shooting that day. So you end up seeing, like, cool stuff as a result. [01:16:38] Speaker A: Maybe we can go when I'm there. Maybe we can pop over. [01:16:41] Speaker B: Yeah, we'll just pop over to Hollywood and. [01:16:43] Speaker A: Feasible. [01:16:44] Speaker B: Yeah, go check out universal. [01:16:45] Speaker A: It's the same country. It can't be far. [01:16:47] Speaker B: Yeah, how far could it possibly be? But all that to say, seen that a million times. Never seen Waterworld. So I sat down to it last night when I finished doing things, what I didn't realize, this is not the first time this has happened. This also happened with the abyss, was that you downloaded the super extended cut of this movie. And so I was like, jesus, christ, 3 hours. Okay. I can't believe this is a three hour movie. It's not. The movie is supposed to be like 2 hours and 15 minutes. But I watched a three hour version of it and it is boring. [01:17:32] Speaker A: And using derided like hell upon release, wasn't it? [01:17:37] Speaker B: Yeah. It is savage. Deeply considered a terrible movie. And it is. It's like a baffling movie, though. So it's like there's something interesting in that. The things that happen throughout this movie don't move the plot forward at all. So it's like you've just kind of got, like, these characters drifting around on the water and, like, every now and again meeting a bad guy who does something, like, exploitative to them or whatever and they have to fight them. And it's like that doesn't move anything forward in any way. Nor do I understand the world in which they live anymore because this happened. Why does everybody have such vastly different accents? Is Kevin Costner doing an accent? What is happening here? And then Dennis Hopper is our villain in this. And of course, you gotta love him. He's great. But he and his henchmen are in a completely different movie than, like, Kevin Costner. [01:18:34] Speaker A: Oh, is me always, though. [01:18:35] Speaker B: And Tina, I mean, this is probably true. Yeah. But he's in some sort of slapstick og, super Mario kind of movie. And they're in a very serious sea epic. But then there's also weird, weird moments of, like, comedy, to use the term loosely, in it as well. It is a deeply bizarre movie. And I'm not mad I watched it just because it's so baffling that I feel like I needed to see it with my own eyes. [01:19:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:19:16] Speaker B: I've just never seen anything like it. [01:19:19] Speaker A: It feels like a kind of a proto avatar type of. [01:19:24] Speaker B: Yeah, right. Like. And it's certainly trying to do, like a Cameron, for sure. [01:19:29] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:19:30] Speaker B: You know, it's a. That's the thing about Kevin Costner, bless him, is like he loves an epic and he's passionate about making epics. And he always. Executive producers, produces his stuff, but they're all boring as shit and unnecessary. They're like, oh, dad, why don't you just retire and play some golf? And he's like, no, I need to make a five part western set of epics. You know, like, he's doing. He's doing what Cameron is doing with Avatar, but with Westerns right now. I don't understand the guy. And he's a baffling leading man. [01:20:13] Speaker A: He is. And I'd find it tough to, to kind of define the niche. Right. If I were to ask you, well, what's a Kevin Costner movie? You couldn't. [01:20:26] Speaker B: Yeah, it's not like there's not a thing he does. Yeah, it's very bizarre. [01:20:33] Speaker A: Like, you could describe a, you know, a Bruce Willis movie from the nineties. You could describe Nicholas Cage movie from the nineties, but you couldn't describe a Kevin Costner movie from the nineties. [01:20:44] Speaker B: No, absolutely not. It's. Yeah, he was just a very strange leading man who it feels like. I don't, I think maybe the fact that he got into producing kind of early helped to keep him a leading man maybe longer than he would have been. Yeah. Seems like a nice guy and everything. Went to my, went to the same university as me, but, yeah, he's just a weird guy. [01:21:10] Speaker A: Weird movie, weird choice. [01:21:11] Speaker B: Don't necessarily recommend Waterworld, but hey, if you're, like, doing other things and you want to occasionally look up and go, what? It's there for you. [01:21:21] Speaker A: Nice. [01:21:22] Speaker B: All 3 hours of it. [01:21:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Do you know the only reason I downloaded that cut was because it was the only one I could find. [01:21:31] Speaker B: Yeah. This was, this is the same way that I discovered that the abyss one was an extended cut too, was because I was reading friends letterboxd reviews and someone happened to say, I watched the three hour extended cut. And I was like, oh, and the same thing with the abyss. I was reading letterboxd reviews and someone was like, I watched the three hour extended cut. I was like, fuck me. Okay. That explains a lot. I was like, this movie is way too long. [01:22:00] Speaker A: If you're gonna watch it, fucking watch it all, I guess. [01:22:03] Speaker B: Do it the way the director wanted you to watch it. [01:22:05] Speaker A: You wouldn't want to go to your grave knowing that there was an hour and a half of waterworld that you hadn't experienced. [01:22:13] Speaker B: I might have been able to come to terms with it by death. Yeah. You only, you only got to one thing this, this week. [01:22:22] Speaker A: Uh, yes, I did. [01:22:23] Speaker B: But a good time. [01:22:24] Speaker A: Oh, good isn't good. Doesn't come close. So I'm determined to get my money's worth and to fully realize my vision of summer and autumn backyard movies. Right? [01:22:35] Speaker B: Yes. [01:22:35] Speaker A: So good. I've got the fucking kit. I'm gonna goddamn use it. And I don't think I could have possibly made a better choice. We had a little poll in the family about what we were gonna watch next. And some of the picks were, we could have done Jurassic park, we could have done Beverly Hills cop. There were a few other picks. But back to the future was in the poll, and we all. We voted for back to the future. And, you know, if. If you. If you. If you really want magic, if you want fucking actual cinematic magic, then you can't. You. You're not gonna find it anywhere in a more truer sense in this fucking movie. Back to the future is magical. And set and setting are vital in a movie, of course. And, you know, in the night with bugs flying, you know, past the lamp of the projector and everyone in blankets drinking hot chocolate, it's so good. And the film is incredible, right? It. I. Everybody knows the back to the future is brilliant, right? Everybody's got affection for back to the future. But I wonder. It feels quite rare to revisit a film that you've got such affection for and to find that it's better than that. It's even better than you thought it was. Your memory of the memory of that film. It's actually better than your memory of it. It's just this. Every element of it works. That incredible soundtrack, the brilliant fucking dialogue and screenplay, the amazing performances, the wonderful, wonderful fucking relationship between Doc and Mai. And it's so underwritten, that relationship, particularly in that first film, the affection between the two of them builds, you know, in the past and pays off in the future. That is the present. And it's. There's such a lot of subtlety in what Christopher Lloyd does in that film that you don't fucking. You think Doc Brown is this broad, kind of slapstick, mad scientist performance, but there's such a lot of fucking subtlety in what he does and how underwritten it is. He does such a lot with his eyes and with his face that tell you that Doc Brown is actually super. You know, he struggles with his own kind of. He never feels he's fulfilled his potential. He's never invented anything that works, and it preys on him. And his relationship with Marty is a physical kind of embodiment of his one success. [01:25:16] Speaker B: Hmm. [01:25:17] Speaker A: You know, I mean, the DeLorean is the only thing he's ever made that worked, you know? [01:25:20] Speaker B: Right. [01:25:21] Speaker A: And his bond with Marty is based on that fucking feeling that. That. That dream of fulfilling his own potential. It's fucking great. And the last half hour when it builds and builds and builds and everything that you think could go wrong with their plan goes wrong. And the fucking. The dance, uh, you know, it looks as though Biff is going to fucking wreck everything. And the cable comes unplugged, and everything is just on a hair trigger. You know, if one thing goes wrong, it's all fucked. And Marty's future is fucked, but it all just. Everything just slots in at the last possible second and goes right. And then that ending when it just blends into the second movie. Fuck me, man. Back to the future is absolute just beauty. It is a beautiful piece of work. I fucking loved it. And the kids love it. [01:26:07] Speaker B: You have to rewatch it. It's been a minute. So since. I mean, you know, I. It was one of the first dvd's that I bought when I was in college and stuff like that. You know, I've just seen it many times, but not in a good while. And now you're making me want to sit down and actually enjoy it again. [01:26:22] Speaker A: Yes, through adult eyes. And by that, I mean not even 20 year old adult eyes. Not even 30 year old adult eyes. [01:26:30] Speaker B: Like, actual adult adult. [01:26:32] Speaker A: Actual adult eyes. There is. There is way more going on in that movie. Would it get made in 2024? Fuck no. [01:26:46] Speaker B: Right? Yeah, there's problems, you know, when you. [01:26:51] Speaker A: Strip away all of the fantastic cinematic things it's doing. Right. What we'll do, I'll molest you in a car, mom. And then dad can punch me, and then everything will be fine. [01:27:03] Speaker B: That kind of dad, the peeping Tom. [01:27:07] Speaker A: We'Re rooting for, obviously, you know, some of the. Some of the thematic elements might not fly today, but it was the eighties. Yes, indeed. And look, as a film, it is. It is a full package. It is fucking brilliant. And it was just a joy. It would probably goosebumps and a fucking lump in the throat. It was just a brilliant, brilliant film. [01:27:29] Speaker B: Amazing. I gotta rewatch that. Maybe that'll be my reward when I turn in this stupid assignment tonight. I will then watch back to the future. [01:27:39] Speaker A: That would be a great move. [01:27:41] Speaker B: I think that's a perfect Sunday night. Get all cozy, you know, I just washed my bedding. Take a shower. Curl up with some. Back to the future. [01:27:49] Speaker A: Yeah, that is nice. And turn your phone off. Turn your phone off. Don't kind of watch it over your phone. [01:27:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:27:54] Speaker A: Don't scroll properly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Just. Just drink it in. Drink it in. [01:27:58] Speaker B: Love it. Do you have a question for us to close out? [01:28:03] Speaker A: I actually don't. So this is looking like a. Our first non two hour episode in probably a couple of. [01:28:09] Speaker B: In a long time. [01:28:10] Speaker A: A long time. But again, you know, the week, the week, the week. What I will say. Yeah. You had a Richard Herringenhe, british comedian. [01:28:23] Speaker B: Sounds familiar. [01:28:24] Speaker A: Richard Herring. So he used to be part of a double act with the greatest comedian living in Britain at the minute. Stuart Lee. [01:28:29] Speaker B: Stuart Lee. I know. I know you. [01:28:33] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Richard Herring has a very successful podcast which he records live in the Leicester Square Theatre weekly. I don't know if it's still going. I think it is, but, yeah, any. Any comedian definitely has. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anybody who's anybody has been on Richard Herring's podcast, and he has a list of emergency questions which he asks his guests when there's a lot in the conversation, and just looking down some of them and. All right, okay, I'm gonna. Don't think. Just answer. Right? Don't think. Just answer. What celebrity would you like to be stroking your head as you die? Either can be a life or dead. I don't care. [01:29:17] Speaker B: Like stroking my head as I die. Oh, God. [01:29:24] Speaker A: Right. Taking too long. Just off the top of my head. Let me think. David lynch. [01:29:31] Speaker B: Oh, okay. That's a good choice. I like that. Go on. [01:29:34] Speaker A: Do you think that there are any true conspiracy theories? [01:29:38] Speaker B: Yes. [01:29:39] Speaker A: Give me one. [01:29:41] Speaker B: Oh, it's like. Oh, off the top. I don't know. I think we don't necessarily know them if they are true. [01:29:48] Speaker A: All right, have you ever been. [01:29:51] Speaker B: Maybe Jeffrey Epstein didn't kill himself. Let's go. [01:29:54] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's commonly accepted as fact by now, isn't it? Have you ever been rude to a celebrity? [01:30:04] Speaker B: Have I ever been rude to a celebrity? I have. I once accidentally knocked Seth Green over. Does that count as being screwed? [01:30:14] Speaker A: I have a picture in my head of Seth green as being really short. Is he super short? [01:30:17] Speaker B: He's tiny. Yeah. Like an inch shorter than me. And holy shit, probably weighs 70 pounds less than I do. [01:30:25] Speaker A: Wow. So you could fucking send him. [01:30:29] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, I was, like, a giantess in comparison, and I just was looking the opposite direction. He was walking with the girl who played Tink in the guild, and I can't remember who else he was with. Just came around a corner and just knocked him off his feet. [01:30:48] Speaker A: What's her name? What's that girl called? [01:30:52] Speaker B: I can't remember. I cannot remember what her name was. It's been a decade or so, and I'm sure she's been in other stuff since then, but I don't know. It's kind of niche nerd stuff, probably. [01:31:04] Speaker A: Have you committed any crimes that you've not previously admitted to? [01:31:09] Speaker B: No, not that interesting. [01:31:13] Speaker A: Who could you have assassinated? [01:31:17] Speaker B: Oh, who could I have assassinated? [01:31:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Who do you. Who do you think maybe you would like to have assassinated? [01:31:22] Speaker B: Trump. [01:31:23] Speaker A: Nice. Nice. Which is. Which is worse bestiality or necrophilia? [01:31:31] Speaker B: Bestiality. Okay, we've already been through my feeling on necrophilia. [01:31:36] Speaker A: Yeah, we have. Okay, let's have one more. [01:31:39] Speaker B: Which, if you didn't listen to that, by the way, it's not that I'm pro necrophilia. It's just that I think that you. [01:31:44] Speaker A: Didn'T even take a beat. [01:31:48] Speaker B: It's just simply that I think that, like, a dead person is less bothered by it than a living one. [01:31:53] Speaker A: That's all there are. Some of these are awful and some of them quite interesting. If you were the prime minister president, could you use a nuclear weapon? [01:32:04] Speaker B: No. [01:32:05] Speaker A: Okay. Would you consider sex with a ghost as cheating on your partner? [01:32:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:32:20] Speaker A: Okay. [01:32:21] Speaker B: Are you in love with the ghost? [01:32:22] Speaker A: Oh, it doesn't say. That's up to you. [01:32:25] Speaker B: I think there's caveats. I think there's caveats here. [01:32:29] Speaker A: Have you ever been attacked by an animal? [01:32:32] Speaker B: Hmm. I don't know that I would say attacked, not like in a ferocious way. [01:32:37] Speaker A: Okay. Jesus, there's fucking thousands of these. [01:32:43] Speaker B: It's a fun little, fun little rapid fire quiz. Here it is. [01:32:47] Speaker A: Some of them are awful. I'll send you the link. Some of them are absolutely awful. Let's have one more. Do do do do do. Who. Perfect for you. Who do you consider to have been the best one of Jesus disciples? [01:33:08] Speaker B: I don't know that I have an answer for that, to be honest with you. They're all kind of shitheads in their own way. [01:33:13] Speaker A: Yeah, that's true. [01:33:16] Speaker B: I'll say it's. It's Thomas because he, he doubted. [01:33:22] Speaker A: Ah, man, you. You just can't get him to believe in anything, can you? I'm not sure about that fucking shit that he says. Uh, listen, that's all out of me. I mean, you got anything you want to fucking send us off on? [01:33:40] Speaker B: Uh, no. What an abrupt end. Listen, every now and again we'll do one of those. Big gulp, see you later. [01:33:56] Speaker A: What about our local sports team? Stay spooky. [01:34:02] Speaker B: Stay spooky.