Ep. 162: JoAG gets tarot'd

[00:00:04] Speaker A: So crew. It's December. Yes, it's a December. Jo AG. We are some three fucking years into the journey, maybe a bit more. Why don't we kick off this week with just some really fucking classic, just a really fucking intriguing classic. Little twisty, little fucking local murder case. What do you think? [00:00:27] Speaker B: Okay. I'm on board with this. [00:00:31] Speaker A: Beautiful. It's a case which is live. It's ongoing. There have been recent developments. It's a banger. I want to take you, if I may, to 2017. All right? 2017 in the town of Delphi, which is the Delphi Murders. Are you familiar? [00:00:53] Speaker B: A little bit. Because last podcast on the left, on their Side Stories has talked a bit about them, but this is not one I've like, deep dived on. So I am excited about this. Well, listen, Leanne, I'm assuming you're not familiar. [00:01:06] Speaker C: I might pick it up as it goes if it was popular enough, but I don't read a lot of murders. [00:01:13] Speaker A: Let me know. Look, we have a vast international fan base, right? So this is for them. I'm taking you all back to 2017 in the small town of Delphi, where Abby and Libby, who are 13 and 14 respectively, have just been dropped off by Libby's sister to go on a hike to go on a hike across an old bridge in their town. They both attended Delphi Community Middle School. These two girls, firm friends, they would play saxophone together. They would attend saxophone lessons, play volleyball together, firm friends. And the trail that they were hiking on, it is leafy and it is green and it is overgrown. And it included a bridge. Really old ass fucking bridge, which at its peak is high as fuck, seven and a half stories high at its zenith and just 3 meters across. All right? It's old, it's treacherous, it's dilapidated. So the girls are dropped off on this hike and they're due to be collected later that evening at 315 by Libby's grandfather. But they fail to show up. All right? They never turn up. They never make it. The hours take on, the minutes take on. By 05:00 P.m., the families were out searching for them. By 06:00 P.m., most of the town had joined them. It's a small town Delphi of around 3000 people. The police were out, the town's folk were out, but the girls were nowhere to be found. Now we know that they were fine at 02:00 P.m. Because Libby uploaded a photo of her friend Abby walking on that iconic fucked up bridge. She posted that to Snapchat at 209. So we know that they were both fine then. [00:02:52] Speaker B: I know that this is going to come up more in this story, how technology plays into it and whatnot. But just while we're here, it is wild how we often have such incredible timestamps for the things that people do, especially young people, because it's like they post everything. So it's like you want to know where they were just look at their socials, and it's probably I listened to a whole podcast, not a podcast I particularly liked because the ethics of it were not great, but this guy managed to get some Canadian guy to hack someone's Google stuff. And it's like, you know how when you go to a place somewhere, maybe a place you don't even remember that you've been before? [00:03:38] Speaker A: Yes. [00:03:38] Speaker B: And your Google thing pops up and it's like, oh, you were here three years ago, or whatever, and it's like it has minute by minute, like second by second information. [00:03:51] Speaker A: You go into the Google settings on your phone right now, and you have a timeline of exactly where you've been and when, how many miles you traveled on a particular day, where you visited. [00:04:01] Speaker B: It's all more precise than we even really give it credit for. And this guy was able to figure out, like, this person drove halfway down this long driveway and parked there for an hour and then came back out of the driveway or things like that, and you're like, it's just insane. [00:04:22] Speaker C: A lot of information, right? [00:04:25] Speaker B: We've been talking about the fact that it's a lot harder to be a serial killer and things like that in this day and age. And this shit is why. Anyways. [00:04:35] Speaker A: Very snapchats. [00:04:36] Speaker B: 209. [00:04:39] Speaker A: The fucking world is searching for them by now, of course, right? Law enforcement, firefighters, volunteers, the Feds got involved, man. The FBI were supporting really significantly. There was a task force formed to analyze the fucking entire area, pursue leads. There were fucking warrants executed. They really went in on trying to find these girls. But the following day on the 14th, their bodies were found about half a mile from that bridge that we were talking about, right? The monon high bridge. They were found about half a mile away, dead, stabbed to death. Now, when they were found, law enforcement immediately made the decision to kind of hold back details of the investigation, right? There's only one person out there who fucking knows what really happened to those girls, and it's the guy or guys or gals or other who did it. But it was released that Libby, in the minutes or hours before their death, captured a super, super brief video and audio clip of the guy who logic demands was responsible for their murder. The fucking audio clip that was released has the guy saying simply just three words down the hill. And it's nothing more than a three or four second, quite grainy smartphone image of this guy, but he's fucking visible, and it's super eerie, just that whispered kind of command down the hill. I've actually got a link to the video here if you want to see it. I'll send it over to you and link to it, whatever. It's eerie as shit. Additional details emerged over time. Right. Sketches. [00:06:19] Speaker B: Leanne just kind of like, made, like, an uncomfortable noise. Nope. Don't want to see it. [00:06:31] Speaker A: But it's there. Should you decide in the dead of night tonight that you want to give it a watch, it's there for you to do that. Right. The public got involved as well. Right. Podcasters got involved. The podcast specifically was set up to explore and to almost keep the case alive, called down the Hill. [00:06:49] Speaker B: I'm sorry, I have to intervene again here because this is another thing that is always wild, is that now, at this point, if you want something to get solved, you just have to put a podcast on it because the cops will not solve it. [00:07:02] Speaker A: Yes. [00:07:02] Speaker B: There's just simply no way you need to have a podcast investigating it. [00:07:07] Speaker A: Yes. Citizen power, isn't it? [00:07:09] Speaker B: I guess. [00:07:11] Speaker A: But they came up with loads of kind of working theories which ended up to be very close to the mark. They theorized that the killer had to be somebody who knew those woods, knew that area, someone who spent a lot of time outdoors, somebody who would have kind of rehearsed the crime, who'd probably walked that track so many, so many times. And if that was true, they were able to map out a minute by minute how he would have passed the girls walking in the other direction, scanned the place for others, for witnesses and then doubled back and caught them. And that's when they noticed him. That's when the recording happened. But even with all of that interest, even with all of that input, official and unofficial, the case went completely cold until 2022. Right? [00:07:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:01] Speaker A: When a guy was arrested, a guy by the name of Richard Allen, 50 year old, a resident, one of the 3000 from Delphi, just had been living his life amongst in the community. [00:08:14] Speaker B: One of 3000 people? [00:08:16] Speaker A: One of 3000 people and photos of the guy. He isn't somebody who would blend in. He's kind of an individual looking guy. He's got a long beard, he's somebody who would stand out. But he blended into the community. He worked at CVS. Now, I don't know what that is. [00:08:35] Speaker B: The chemist. Is that what you call the pharmacist? [00:08:38] Speaker A: Yes. [00:08:39] Speaker B: There you go. [00:08:39] Speaker A: Like boots or something. [00:08:41] Speaker B: Yes, exactly like that. Yes. [00:08:43] Speaker A: Which makes sense. Right? Because it emerged that I think it was one of Libby's relatives actually crossed paths with this guy when she took some prints in from the girl's funeral to be developed. It was our boy Richard who processed those prints and reportedly kind of gave them to her for free as a gesture of kind of crazy. [00:09:08] Speaker B: It's like killers insert themselves into and things like that. But in a town that small, he just is a part of it. It's not out there in certain parties or anything. [00:09:21] Speaker A: You can't help but be by virtue. [00:09:24] Speaker B: Of being there and giving up for free. [00:09:28] Speaker A: Yes. [00:09:30] Speaker B: I don't know. That's an interesting thing to do because it's like was it guilt? Did he feel guilty or was it just kind of a like, did he feel gesture that would be expected of you? [00:09:42] Speaker A: Exactly. Yes. I would suspect that. Do this. It'll look cool. Yeah. But it gets even more interesting, right? Because a warrant from the FBI revealed in 2017 right. That the crime scene was fascinating. The girl's bodies appeared to have been moved and staged and positioned very deliberately at the crime scene. Right. [00:10:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:11] Speaker A: There was writing at the crime scene. Signatures, names written. Whether that was before or after the murder, we don't know, but there was signatures. They keep being referred to all over the crime scene. And that's formed the basis of Alan's defense. Right. His attorneys have put forward the defense that the girls were killed are you ready? By members of a pagan Norse religion and white supremacist group known as. [00:10:44] Speaker B: Yeah, okay, sure. [00:10:46] Speaker A: The Odinists did it. Leanne is nodding there as though you got something to say about the Odinists. [00:10:52] Speaker C: No, I mean, that's just stuff they do. [00:10:55] Speaker A: Okay. That's their Mo. [00:10:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:58] Speaker C: I mean, it's like Satanic panic. [00:11:00] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:11:01] Speaker C: It's our favorite it's our favorite random Satanic cult. [00:11:06] Speaker B: Oh, it wasn't me. It was clearly this well, this is Odinist as fuz. Yeah, sure. [00:11:13] Speaker A: In the filing, the attorneys say that members of a pagan Norse religion called Odinism, hijacked by white nationalists, ritualistically sacrificed Abigail Williams and Libby German, the attorney said in the filing, and nothing connects their client with any sort of religious cult. Ergo wow. [00:11:33] Speaker B: That is like an obvious logical fallacy that I can't think of what it is, but where it's like you start at the conclusion and then you work backwards from there. Since it was clearly a cult and he is not in a cult, then. [00:11:45] Speaker A: Ergo. [00:11:49] Speaker B: Furthermore no further questions, Your Honor. [00:11:54] Speaker A: In the Delphi, the Delphi area is home to two notable Odinist sects. [00:12:01] Speaker B: Indiana is Indiana. Okay. Yeah. Okay. [00:12:04] Speaker A: Gotcha. But the case continues. I don't think it could have been him. If they were posed in an Odinistic fashion, I just don't see how he could have he's no Odinist. [00:12:20] Speaker B: What makes that like so? It's simply that they were posed and that there are some names on the walls. [00:12:27] Speaker A: This feels like some true detective shit, doesn't it? [00:12:30] Speaker B: I did not watch that. [00:12:32] Speaker A: Did you not? [00:12:33] Speaker B: Well, no. I watched, like, two episodes and I was like, no, absolutely not. [00:12:39] Speaker A: Was awesome. Anyway, this feels like some true detective. Obviously, the attorneys the lawyers, they've done their research. Opposed bodies. Yeah, that's Odinist. I don't know. I don't know. [00:12:50] Speaker B: Did the cops say this? Because, again, this is why podcasts exist. You're right. It's definitely the Odinists. [00:12:58] Speaker A: Just the attorneys. As far as I can gather, we've. [00:13:01] Speaker C: Had a huge problem with Odinists. [00:13:07] Speaker B: Nickel for every Odinist. [00:13:09] Speaker A: Seriously? [00:13:10] Speaker C: It's invading Indiana. [00:13:13] Speaker A: If your call is related to Odinists, press one. So there we go. Was it Odinists? I don't know. Can you categorically tell me that it wasn't? Wait, no, you can't. [00:13:26] Speaker B: They didn't let him off on that, did they? [00:13:28] Speaker A: Oh, no, it's ongoing. This is an ongoing case. The Odinist. That's quite a new development. That's a new break in the case. Okay. [00:13:37] Speaker B: But they've recently come up with that. [00:13:39] Speaker A: You can guarantee I'm going to be staying close to this one? [00:13:42] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it's an interesting story even when you take the Odinism thing out of it. I mean, like you said, the clip thing is super creepy. But it's also, like, sort of speaks to this is like 2017, right? This happened 2017. And it's like, this girl was savvy enough to think that I'm going to try to capture something of this. [00:14:06] Speaker A: If down the hill's timeline is correct, they would have seen him passing them, right? So then she turns around, sees the same guy turn around to following them. [00:14:15] Speaker B: Fuck, right? And she's like, oh, shit. I can't remember if I've like, this feels like a story I should have told on here, but I can't remember. [00:14:23] Speaker A: Doing it at this point. [00:14:24] Speaker B: You might have done, but no, not this. I was about to tell a story from my own life. [00:14:30] Speaker A: You probably do it next week. Better do it better next week. [00:14:32] Speaker B: I was going to retell this story. No, from what I have heard of this story, this sounds correct. This is not another 90 foot stone situation. But when I was in high school, a friend and I were working on a project. So you remember me and Kelly Debartock. You recall this? Yeah. So Kelly and I, freshman year, while. [00:14:54] Speaker A: Leah shout out kelly Debartok. [00:14:55] Speaker B: Kelly Debartok. We were working on a project at the library, and Kelly was kind of like a motherly type kind of person, worried about everything. And you were like, okay, you need to take it down a notch, Kelly. But there was a guy who he was wearing camo pants and, like, a yellow T shirt. And he had, like, long blonde hair and a ponytail. And he was kind of near us while we were outside filming stuff. And Kelly was like, I'm getting bad vibes. Don't like this, dude. Let's go inside. And I was kelly like, we need to finish this project. Like, we were filming stuff outside. Can we just do this? She's like, no, we got to go inside. So we go and we go into the kids section. She's like, we're just going to hide. And I'm like, oh, my God, this is so embarrassing. So we go and we hide behind a bookshelf in the kids section. And then the guy comes in and we see him looking around. And I'm like, okay, that is a little fucking weird that the guy then did appear to follow us inside and look for us. So the next day we go to school, and they over. The intercom are like, there was an incident on the bike path by Mill Valley Middle School yesterday. A girl was assaulted by a man on the bike path. And I jokingly turned to Kelly and I was like, was he wearing camo pants? And then they describe him in the camo pants with the ponytail, the whole thing. [00:16:29] Speaker A: And I was like, oh, that's incredible. [00:16:31] Speaker B: Holy shit. Kelly was completely right. Her instincts were completely spot on about this guy and what he was. And like, at the time I'm wondering because we were videotaping with a camcorder or whatever, I'm like, we might have this guy on video somewhere, but they caught him and whatever happened. But it's like these kids were like, yeah, their hackles were up. They were like, yeah, this guy's clearly following us or whatever. And they did what they could. And clearly given the situation, it didn't work out. But with that kind of technology that people have, I mean, it's kind of that fine line, right? She's trying to get video or a sound recording or whatever. But also if he sees it, he's just going to take the phone. There's only so much that she can do. But I just find it fascinating to think about these kids, like, having the foresight to be like, get a bad vibe and then try to do what they can to identify this person. Hopefully. I'm sure they wanted to get away, but knowing that if they didn't, they were going to have some sort of evidence. [00:17:44] Speaker A: So listen, that's the takeaway from this little opener, right? You may not get away, but even if you do or if you don't, trust the vibes. [00:17:53] Speaker B: Trust the vibes. Yeah. [00:17:56] Speaker A: If it sucks, hit the bricks. [00:17:58] Speaker B: If it sucks, hit the bricks. This is like honestly, that's the thing that I kind of learned from that experience and that it's good that these kids had because especially when you're young, but especially for women and stuff like that, you learn to be so polite. Don't assume someone is coming after you, give them a smile, all that kind of stuff. Everything's good. But it's like if the vibes are off, hit the bricks. [00:18:21] Speaker A: GTFO let me quote directly from my notes, if I may. [00:18:26] Speaker B: Yes, please do. [00:18:28] Speaker A: Fucking look at these nerds. Oh, Misel sen. [00:18:31] Speaker B: I don't think anyone has ever said Misel sen in such a horny way before. [00:18:35] Speaker A: The way I whispered the word sex cannibals. [00:18:38] Speaker B: Worst comes to worst, Mark, I'm willing to guillotine you for science. [00:18:42] Speaker A: Thank you. That's really, really sweet. It's cold outside, but my pancreas is talking to me. I'm going to leg it. [00:18:48] Speaker B: You know how I feel about that, Mark. [00:18:50] Speaker A: I think you feel great about it. Well, look, you won't need to worry about the vibes for the next fucking couple of hours because it's Jack of all graves and you know they're going to be bad. You know those vibes are going to be sour, kind of sticky, uncomfortable vibes only for the next hour or so. [00:19:11] Speaker B: Please. [00:19:13] Speaker A: This is Jack of all graves. And it's December. And let me tell you something. What did I say to you earlier? Corrigan in a conversation earlier on, it's December and on Joaag in December, we're entitled to go a little bit squirrely, a little bit fucking. You know what I mean? It'silly season. It's the last couple of months of the year. Who gives a shit? So that's very much the fucking zone that you find at least me in this week's Friend on this week's Jack of All Graves. How are you? Corrigan we've got a friend. We've got a guest. [00:19:39] Speaker B: We do have a friend. [00:19:41] Speaker C: We know. [00:19:45] Speaker B: I would argue I'm going to push back. The vibes are going to be immaculate today, specifically, of course, because we have my dear friend, my my sister Leanne. We transcend friendship on here today. Mark already sort of hyped her up last week and talked about how excited we are because Leanne and I have known each other since we were small and especially in our evangelical church days, went to the same church and all of that kind of stuff. And now all these many years later are still vibing. And today Leanne is going to do some Tarot reading for us. [00:20:40] Speaker A: So cool. [00:20:41] Speaker B: Yes, some actual Tarot vibe checks for us because, listen, if you listen to Jack of All Graves regularly, you know that Mark and I are not the most spiritual human beings in the world, as Leanne knows as well. And in fact, you volunteered at this. [00:20:58] Speaker C: I did. I said, who would be really fun to do this with? So I knew you guys would be my it's my first open reading. [00:21:10] Speaker B: I love this. [00:21:11] Speaker C: Or recorded reading ever. [00:21:12] Speaker A: I am honored. We are honored. [00:21:14] Speaker B: We are honored. And I just love I think that there's something great about kind of like the respect and love between people when we can have completely different beliefs about things and you know, that this is not a thing that we believe in and things like that, but that it's still, like, let's just do it and have fun on that. [00:21:33] Speaker A: Right? You'll remember a couple of years back I went to a spiritualist yes, I took a field trip. I went and watched somebody attempt to pierce the veil. All right, look, yes, I'm just this mortal realm and nothing more. But had I seen something that night that had challenged that position, I would be open to it, right. As am I this evening. You know what I mean? I have firm beliefs, but they are open to being shaken. [00:22:05] Speaker B: So I've always, in my years since journeying out of Evangelicalism, always thought that agnostic atheism is the way to go. No certainty, because how can any of us be certain of anything? So you always have to be willing to have your mind changed or it's just a belief, isn't it? [00:22:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:23] Speaker B: So we're very excited for this and we'll talk more about this. We're going to talk about where Tarot came from. We're going to talk about Leanne's sort of spiritual journey, because I know that's a thing that a lot of people who listen to this podcast are evangelicals and a lot of the ones that we've actually had on here and talked to have pretty firmly landed in the Atheism camp. And so it's very exciting to have someone on today who hasn't just disavowed all forms of spirituality altogether like the rest of us, instead has found something that is of value there and whatnot and I think that that's kind of it's a different perspective on things than one that it's like it's fun to actually delve into. Like, hey, not all of us end up in the same place. There's a huge range. [00:23:11] Speaker C: Yeah, we might be in the same place. We just have different perspectives. [00:23:16] Speaker B: Right, exactly. So very stoked to talk about that. In the meantime, we've got a few things to take care of. For one this weekend, we're going to be doing a little dealer's choice, Marco's Choice watch along. [00:23:32] Speaker A: Yes, we do have a few things to deal with super quick before that. Right. You mentioned this this week, Corey. This is a very validating time of year for us. The kind of Apple and Know unwrapped where they reveal your trends, your listening history for the past year. And I have personally got a massive sense of superiority and just unjustified well being from seeing the number of hours that you, our friends, our listeners have put in to us this year, it's been mind blowing. We've had kind of comments on some of our YouTubes from brand new fans and look, it's been like an absolute shot of joy in the arm. It's been like an intravenous injection of pure good feelings. So thank you and we hope you don't regret any of those hours you're here. [00:24:27] Speaker B: Maybe some of them. It's about to happen. [00:24:29] Speaker A: I just wanted to get out of the way. So we're going to do a Watch Along this weekend because we missed one in November, so we'll do one next weekend. This coming weekend. That is the 9 December yet. [00:24:40] Speaker B: That sounds about right. I mean, you would know it is the day before your birthday. [00:24:44] Speaker A: Well, exactly. That Mark's birthday. [00:24:47] Speaker B: Watch along. [00:24:49] Speaker A: The theme is ha. It's Marco's choice. So I'll announce what the film is on Monday or Tuesday. I'm straight up just going to pick a banger, something that I want to watch and you're free and welcome to turn up and join me if you like. I would love to see you all. But yes, watch along this weekend and the theme is Happy Birthday. Me. [00:25:10] Speaker C: Best theme ever. [00:25:11] Speaker B: I know. I'm a big fan of a birthday theme, so stoked on that. We have on our Kofi. We just posted last week a let's Play playing some RoboCop, which Mark has since it was not really conquering when we were playing at the time, but that has been dealt with and we posted a nice little video from our England adventures up on the Ko fi two days ago, I believe. So if you haven't watched that yet and you are a subscriber, make sure you go watch Mark tell a story terribly in. [00:25:51] Speaker A: It'S. It's what really happens when you think you can just turn up and cold read a tale off your phone. You can't do that. [00:25:57] Speaker B: Can't do it. No. [00:25:58] Speaker A: And here's what happens when you try I think the story kind of came through. It emerged. [00:26:03] Speaker B: Yeah. The threads there, for sure. I wouldn't use it as a source for anything, but you do get the idea. No story that's being told. And it's delightful to watch. So check that out on our COFI. But also, we have not been doing monthly shout outs on our COFI because it's a little too much. I think everybody gets a little overwhelmed by hearing us shout out everyone every single month. So we're doing more of like a quarterly sort of situation of shouting people out on here. And thus tis the season. Right? It is time for Mark to shout out our Co fi subscribers. So I'm going to bring up the list of these folks, and Mark, what have you got for them this time? [00:26:51] Speaker A: Okay? So if you have done the right thing, if you have stepped the fuck up and joined the ranks of the Thrice Blessed this month, what I'm going to give you is I'm going to curse each of you individually with a folk demon from somewhere around the world. Amazing, right? [00:27:13] Speaker B: So, on board for this? Yes. [00:27:14] Speaker A: And I'm going to tell you something I'm afraid to say. The demon that I assigned to you, the folk demon I assigned to you today, is going to be visiting you tonight in your sleep. So I apologize. [00:27:25] Speaker B: Excellent. Please tell us how it goes, though. [00:27:27] Speaker A: Yeah, let us know. Let us know when you see the demon that I'm going to bind to your very essence right here with an incantation or two. I want you to know how they manifest and how badly they shit you up. [00:27:41] Speaker B: Well, then, with that said, we should get started, and we're going to jump in with one of our I think this is his first shout out. We're going to go with Chris, the emo dragon. [00:27:51] Speaker A: Chris. Chris, my friend, for you. An old favorite Krampus from Austrian folklore will be visiting you tonight. The horned anthropomorphic fucker who punishes Misbehaving children during Christmas. He will be visiting you tonight, and he's going to give you a good old kicking. [00:28:08] Speaker B: Congratulations. This is an important one, too, because Krampus is the basis of Mark and my friendship. So there would be no jack of. [00:28:15] Speaker A: All he's on our coat of arms. [00:28:18] Speaker B: Yeah. If there was no Krampus, we literally would not know each other. Special, isn't it? Yeah. So take that one, Chris. Another. I think this is his first shout out as well. Our dear australian. Dan. [00:28:32] Speaker A: Dan. Dan, my friend, I'm afraid to say tonight you'll be visited by the Russian demon Baba Yaga often. You might see her as a witch. She might turn up in a little hut with chicken legs. But she's coming your way tonight, friend. Say hello from us. [00:28:48] Speaker B: How about Nick? [00:28:50] Speaker A: Nick. Enjoy your visit tonight from the Chupacabra. He will probably visit you fresh from drinking the blood of livestock. You might see him as a reptile or an alien, but you're going to have a great time. [00:29:01] Speaker B: Oh, a reptile or an alien. That's a nice little spin. Yeah, right. Let us know how he shows up. Lee. [00:29:10] Speaker A: Lee. Tonight, sir, you will commune with Noperabo, who is a Japanese ghost or spirit that doesn't have a face. But the thing is, he appears he or she will appear human until they get really close to you, and then you'll notice they don't have a face. And by then, you're fucked. [00:29:26] Speaker C: I hate when that happens. [00:29:28] Speaker A: It's intense. It can't be. [00:29:29] Speaker B: That's like, legit. Like one of my nightmare creatures. I don't love that. For Stephen. Stephen Root. [00:29:38] Speaker A: Steven. You, sir, if you are quick enough to catch it, will be visited tonight by the Puka, which is an Irish shape shifting fucker, which appears often as, like, a rabbit or a goat or some kind of livestock. [00:29:52] Speaker B: I think there's a Puka movie, isn't there? Or is that like a separate thing? I don't know. Anyways, for Satan. [00:30:01] Speaker A: Satania, great fun for you tonight as Kitsuni visits you with a fox spirit from Japan with various magical attributes. [00:30:10] Speaker B: That sounds like a nice one. Is that a nice I'm sure, magical attributes. [00:30:15] Speaker C: Sounds like my cup of tea. [00:30:16] Speaker A: Sounds quite pleasant. I imagine he might take you on a journey through the sky or know. [00:30:22] Speaker C: That sounds awesome. [00:30:24] Speaker B: Yeah, it sounds really sweet. For our dear Boffin. Eileen. [00:30:28] Speaker A: Eileen, because I love you so deeply, I curse you to be visited tonight by the Dullahan, which is another Irish specter, which will often take the form of, like, a headless rider carrying its head under its arm. Unfortunately, an omen of death. But you'll be able to science your way out of it, won't you? You'll be able to kind of work out the gamma ray signature or come up with an antidote or some shit. [00:30:52] Speaker B: If anyone can do it, it's Eileen. [00:30:54] Speaker A: Yes, indeed. [00:30:56] Speaker B: Rialda. [00:30:57] Speaker A: Rialda. Okay, sad news. You get to be visited tonight by Namahage, which is a Japanese kind of ogre who turns up to admonish misbehaving children. So I don't know if you've got any. [00:31:11] Speaker C: They're about to put me on the list. [00:31:15] Speaker B: I think Rialda is safe. [00:31:17] Speaker C: Starting to sound really nice and more like task rabbits than Get. [00:31:22] Speaker A: This is what you get. It's part of the Joag experience. [00:31:24] Speaker C: This one will eat your children and you'll sleep in for the rest of your life. [00:31:31] Speaker B: Okay. How about for Emily? [00:31:33] Speaker A: Emily. Okay. Enjoy your visit with Pontianac from. Southeast Asia, who is a female vampire who often appears as a beautiful woman before revealing her. True. I know, I know. [00:31:47] Speaker B: That's pretty. [00:31:48] Speaker A: We've all had a couple of fucking pontian acts in our time. [00:31:54] Speaker B: Yeah. How about for our darling Brianne? [00:31:59] Speaker A: Brianne? No sleep for you, I'm afraid, because the banshee is coming your way tonight. The female Irish spirit, whose wailing is said to foretell death to come in the family. [00:32:10] Speaker B: That's a rough one, man. Stick your cats on her, you'll be fine. Canadian boy Ryan. [00:32:18] Speaker A: What up? Canadian boy Ryan, coming your way tonight is the Jiangxi, who is a reanimated corpse from China who moves by hopping on one leg and will suck the life force of the living. I know, right? I saved something special for you. CBR. [00:32:36] Speaker B: Can you control do you do it? CBR is going to be the one for Richie. [00:32:48] Speaker A: Okay, Richie, if we're talking female vampires, you might enjoy your visit tonight from the Mananangal, which is a female Filipino vampire creature. Now, this one's gimmick is fantastic. She can separate her upper torso, much like the saucer section of the Enterprise. [00:33:07] Speaker B: D. Just like that. Yeah, that was what I was going to say. [00:33:13] Speaker A: And she floats around the place praying mainly on pregnant women. Weirdly. She's got a thing. I don't know. Okay. [00:33:20] Speaker B: Yikes. [00:33:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:21] Speaker C: Two for one. She loves the deal. [00:33:24] Speaker A: Bogo. [00:33:27] Speaker B: I like that you said Bogo instead of Bogo. [00:33:30] Speaker C: Bogo. [00:33:35] Speaker B: James. James is next. [00:33:37] Speaker A: All right, James. Tonight, sir, winging its way to you from Brazil is the Cuca, which is a shape shifting entity, often fun depictions of, like, a crocodile kind of creature. Once again, though, mainly looking to feast on disobedient children. [00:33:53] Speaker C: Hey, again, you have my ear. [00:33:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:56] Speaker B: And again, I'm pretty sure this is a child free person here. The kids are all safe. [00:34:03] Speaker A: Hang out. Drink. Bailey's. [00:34:07] Speaker B: For Jerry. OK, the Joffin in chief. [00:34:10] Speaker A: Jerry, big man, you get the Baktak, which is a Persian malevolent bastard. Takes the form of an old woman and just hangs around travelers in the desert and prays on them. Gets them lost, kills them. [00:34:24] Speaker B: Stay out of the desert, Jerry, for the love you'll be all right. [00:34:29] Speaker A: For brother Alan, my number one, you get the sounds made. The aswang. Again, Filipino. By day they appear human, but then by night, they go all zombie. They consume flesh and blood, monstrous entities, but only by darkness. So, I don't know, do what you will with that. [00:34:50] Speaker B: All right? Philippines have some fucked up shit, man. [00:34:53] Speaker A: They do. [00:34:54] Speaker B: I mean, I've seen some of those movies. Their horror movies are next level. [00:34:57] Speaker C: They were settled by so were they. [00:35:00] Speaker B: Settled by Catholics or conquered by Catholics? [00:35:03] Speaker C: That's what mean. [00:35:04] Speaker B: Yeah, right. Yeah. So that really tells you everything you need to know. [00:35:08] Speaker A: Perspective. [00:35:09] Speaker C: The Catholics were the ones in control. [00:35:12] Speaker B: Yeah. So, for Richard. [00:35:18] Speaker A: Richard. We're staying in the Philippines, sir. And you get a visit from Mr. Tikbalang, who is a tall, kind of hairy dude with the head of a horse that if you're traveling in the forest, he might visit you and make you become lost. Right. [00:35:34] Speaker B: I don't think Richard needs much help with that. [00:35:36] Speaker A: No, maybe not. [00:35:39] Speaker B: Maybe it'll help him back out. [00:35:42] Speaker A: Possibly. [00:35:44] Speaker B: For Keo Edmondson. [00:35:46] Speaker A: Handsome Kyo. Sir. Give my regards to the Gashadokuro. A Japanese skeletal creature built of the bones of people who've starved to death. Pretty gnarly. [00:36:00] Speaker B: It's so nice. It's from his culture. Amazing. For Paul. [00:36:11] Speaker A: Paul. Keeping it simple, buddy. Just a good old troll. Big old ugly bastard from Scandinavia. Might be carrying a rock or something with him. Fresh out of a know trolls. For you, sir. [00:36:23] Speaker B: Excellent. Sam. [00:36:26] Speaker A: Sam, now you get the kuchsake ona. Who is Japanese? A woman with a slit mouth. She will ask you if you think she's beautiful and depending on your answer, she will reveal your true form. [00:36:42] Speaker B: Do you think pretty exactly. [00:36:46] Speaker C: Do you think I'm pretty? [00:36:47] Speaker B: You like this? You like some of this? Be careful, Sam, it's a trap. [00:36:56] Speaker C: The most annoying but just be honest, it's like just tell me it's my mouth. [00:37:02] Speaker B: I just think it's weird that you won't be straightforward about it. For Ryan. [00:37:14] Speaker A: Who we got? Ryan. Yes, okay. I enjoy the manticore, which is, I'm sure you know, mythical creature, body of a lion, human head, loads of sharp teeth, poisonous fucking spines on the tail. You get a manticore to frolic with tonight. [00:37:29] Speaker B: I've always liked the word. [00:37:31] Speaker A: Yeah, same. It sounds like a genre of horror that we've yet to discover, doesn't it? [00:37:35] Speaker B: Manticore. Manticore. Lenient, do you have a thought about the manticore? You were like really? [00:37:43] Speaker C: I just saw like a flying manatee, like manticore. It was like a Trayu. [00:37:57] Speaker B: What's his name? Why can't I think of what it's Falcor. [00:37:59] Speaker A: Falcore. [00:38:00] Speaker B: Falcor. [00:38:00] Speaker A: Yes. [00:38:01] Speaker C: It was like dragon. That and a mantis. And manticore. [00:38:05] Speaker B: I love that. You saw me go, you're like it was you were off, you were gone. How about for Colin? [00:38:16] Speaker A: Colin, my friend. It's always fun when the boggart turns up. A English little mischievous bastard known only for causing noises and disturbances, mate. So you're going to have a good time with a boggart? [00:38:30] Speaker B: Totally fine. Again, I think Colin has cats, so that's just like a normal fine, fine. [00:38:35] Speaker A: They'll probably bring in one dead as an offering for the oh, the Latours. Wonderful people. And you fresh out of Scotland, you get the kelpie, which is the kelpie, yes. A water spirit. Shape shifting water spirit. You might see it as like an underwater horse which lures people to ride on it before dragging them to their watery death. [00:38:59] Speaker B: Don't ride the horse. Latours. [00:39:00] Speaker C: No, in Frozen Two. [00:39:04] Speaker B: Really? [00:39:05] Speaker C: That's what they do in Frozen two. She has an ice horse that, like, drops the bottom. [00:39:09] Speaker B: I did see that, but it did not make an impact. Kelpie. [00:39:12] Speaker A: It's an ice kelpie. [00:39:13] Speaker B: It's an ice kelpie. Excellent. Well, you got to be careful about those guys. For Kevin. [00:39:19] Speaker A: Kevin, you get my favorite, and I want you to give this guy my best because we go way back. You get the Yarama Ihahu, which is an Aboriginal, an Australian native creature, kind of a small, red little creature with suckers on its arms and legs and fingers and toes. And it is known mainly for drinking the blood and eating the flesh of its. [00:39:42] Speaker B: That'S a hardcore one, Kevin. I'm sorry. [00:39:44] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. No fucking roan. Kevin. Thank you for your support, my friend Lens, tonight. [00:39:49] Speaker B: And finally, for Jason Codera. [00:39:53] Speaker A: All right, Jason, why don't you enjoy oh, my God. You would do I'm sorry to do this, but you would do a visit from the techie. Techie, which is an urban myth from Japan. The vengeful fucking spirit of a woman who was cut in half by a train yeah. And now haunts the railways and all who ride them. [00:40:17] Speaker B: I feel like a lot of people have gotten cut in half by trains. [00:40:20] Speaker A: Yes. And in the early days of the internet. One of the clips that has stuck with me to this day, like 20 odd years later, is exactly one such video of a guy, a soldier, I believe, who was completely cleft in half by a train, was still conscious and was obviously in shock and was absent mindedly pulling the entrails out of his own. Yes. Yes. [00:40:44] Speaker B: It's not going to help. [00:40:46] Speaker A: No. [00:40:49] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:40:51] Speaker A: That's not even the worst thing I'm going to talk about tonight. [00:40:54] Speaker C: I can't wait. [00:40:56] Speaker B: Beautiful. Amazing stuff. Thank you so much. Kofi sporters. Oh, Mark, I believe you said you had an extra demon for Leanne, though. [00:41:04] Speaker A: Oh, yes, leanne. Leanne, why don't your your wages for turning up is a visit from the hold on. [00:41:13] Speaker C: We're not going to call Grandma, okay? [00:41:16] Speaker B: What's? [00:41:16] Speaker C: My demon? I already have one. [00:41:19] Speaker B: Right on time. [00:41:21] Speaker A: Another one to join the party from Mexico. Chaniques. C-H-A-N-E-Q-U-E-S isn't going to say it's. [00:41:30] Speaker B: A k chanicase. [00:41:31] Speaker A: Chanicus. These are small little Mexican gnomes often associated with nature natural things, and the worst they will do is play pranks, cause mischief, fuck around. You've got Mexican smurfs by the sound of it. [00:41:45] Speaker C: I love it. [00:41:47] Speaker B: It's a perfect addition to your household. [00:41:49] Speaker C: It is. They will fit in perfectly here. [00:41:53] Speaker B: Amazing. So thank you, friends, for doing the right thing, giving us the support and whatnot. We are so happy for you, and you make this possible because it is kind of expensive to run a podcast. So we very much appreciate your support and your help in that process. Are we at what we watched? [00:42:14] Speaker A: Well, now, yes. Why do we kick off with Witchboard? [00:42:17] Speaker B: Witchboard. [00:42:18] Speaker A: Witchboard. A choice which takes us straight back to the video shop of the 1980s. Witchboard, which is an absolute fucking video shop. Shelf warmer about the hijinks and fun, which come with irresponsible Ouija board. Use in the 1980s. Yes, exactly. [00:42:40] Speaker B: And this came up because is someone remaking it or something? You said something last week that brought it up and I had never heard of this movie. [00:42:48] Speaker A: Yes. The only reason it came across my radar is because I've seen recently that it is, in fact being remade to release in 2024. And that's not the exciting bit. Right? The exciting bit is that it's being directed by none other than fucking hell, chuck Russell. Right. From out of nowhere. Chuck Russell, the guy behind the camera on the mask. Jim Carrey's. The Mask. Weirdly. But more importantly, the Blob and nightmare. Nightmare on Elm Street three. Right. That's a hell of a his career has been such an enigma to me. I even mentioned it to Robert England when I met him at a con. Like what the fuck happened to Chuck Russell? His hit rate. Those three movies are great. Right? All three of those movies. And one of them is one of the best movies ever made of all time. So he's a Journeyman nightmare. [00:43:37] Speaker B: Three. Liam. [00:43:38] Speaker C: Oh, because I totally thought he meant the mask. [00:43:41] Speaker A: Obviously, I, like many other men my age, came online probably to Cameron Diaz as she appeared in The Mask. Right. That was one of the men of my age will all share that same experience. When they saw Cameron Diaz in the mask, I kind of was stirring an awakening. I don't know. Yeah, Chuck Russell is back and he's remaking board. So that's caused for celebration for me. So Corey and I watched the original and you fucking guys are giving it. [00:44:11] Speaker B: A bad rap is what you know, we started watching it and I was having fun. And then I just know, as I do sometimes, I looked at the letter box just out of curiosity and it was like everyone I knew gave it like one and a half star one. Yeah, but here's the thing. I then, after the movie finished, read people's reviews and they were like, It's boring, blah, blah. And I was like, yeah, if you were watching this in a screaming chat which I could tell by the dates, was what happened because everyone was watching on the same days Joe Bob did it. Which means it was also interrupted by Joe Bob talking for like 15 minutes in between each part. [00:44:45] Speaker A: Oh, well, okay. [00:44:46] Speaker B: I was like, yeah, no, that would ruin this movie. Because on its own, it's a lot of fun. [00:44:50] Speaker A: It's a load of fun. It's a lot of fun. But I can't really put my finger on why that would be. [00:45:00] Speaker B: I think it's just straightforward. It's just a bunch of people at a party in the 80s, which it's. [00:45:08] Speaker A: Very much of its time. It's as 80s as you could possibly imagine. I think one guy there's like a guy in one of those cut off T shirts where you can just right? [00:45:14] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. A little midriff. [00:45:16] Speaker A: Do you know what I'm saying? [00:45:16] Speaker C: Shirt. [00:45:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:17] Speaker A: Dangly earrings back home. Hair. [00:45:19] Speaker B: Tony Catain's hair is like 87ft high. It's a lot, but yeah, it's like a simple sort of ghost story with a lot of murders. There's plenty of murders throughout this whole thing. Good movie. The first kill in it, I literally. [00:45:34] Speaker A: Catches you by surprise. [00:45:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Loud, like a squeal kind of gasp. [00:45:39] Speaker A: I heared it from all the way across the world. [00:45:42] Speaker B: Right? [00:45:43] Speaker A: It was so high pitched. [00:45:44] Speaker B: You were excited or because it scared me. I did not see it coming. And it was, like, brutal. I immediately was just like, when it occurred. And yeah, it's got a lot of kills that are graphic and practical and little sort of ghost story thing. There's like a bromance at the center, which is surprisingly wholesome. [00:46:14] Speaker A: It was an easy three stars for me. An easy three stars. [00:46:17] Speaker B: It was in a I 3.5. Did I'd watch it again? [00:46:19] Speaker A: There we go. There we go. So which board? Don't believe the reviews? Give it a crack if you want that. [00:46:25] Speaker B: The reviews aren't that bad. It just happens that all of our friends disliked it. But I think it's got like a three point something on here. Pretty good for Harm. [00:46:37] Speaker C: It's just your friends who have the problem. [00:46:39] Speaker B: Yeah, specifically our friend group who does not like Witchboard. [00:46:46] Speaker A: You do one. What do you got? [00:46:48] Speaker B: I finally saw Ponty Pool after a million years of people talking about it. It came out in 2008. Ponty Pool, if other people have not seen it, is a Canadian movie that takes place almost entirely in a radio studio. It takes place entirely not almost entirely entirely in a radio entirely studio as some sort of outbreak is happening outside that is connected to language, specifically the English language. And people basically are turning zombie from words. And so these people inside this radio station are kind of hearing from the outside without experiencing it for themselves. But then it's sort of getting closer and closer to them and it was great. I see why people have raved about all this. Know, you've got Stephen McCaddy at the center of it who is always good for this kind of stuff. Really good gruff voice and all of that. And yeah, it's like it's suspenseful. It's an interesting twist on the zombie genre. I'm not a big zombie person, so not having to really see zombies, things like that, was like a nice element of it too. Yeah, it's just like a really unique, original movie. Gets it done 90 minutes. [00:48:05] Speaker A: You'll know that I'm a big fan of kind of one set. I am reminded of what's it called, locke, the one with Tom Hardy, which I'm a real big fan of fixed set movies that just take place on one set that you could quite easily lift and shift and drop on a stage. I remember Pontypool being I've only seen it once. I saw it once quite close to its release. And I remember thinking of the opportunities that film would present itself in terms of sound design in a theater. You could make something super immersive out of Pontypool with noise around the theater, outside the doors, through the airwaves, on air. A super creative film, stripped back, yet something quite individual and unique about it. [00:48:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Recommend. What else? [00:48:58] Speaker A: Right now? I apologize for watching it without you, but I saw Christine I was a. [00:49:05] Speaker B: Little miffed at first, but then I saw that it's over 2 hours. [00:49:09] Speaker A: Yes. And just for clarity's sake, I don't mean John Carpenter's Stephen King adaptation, I mean the Rebecca Hall starring 2017 Christine or Christine Chubbuck, who we talked about. [00:49:21] Speaker B: In our third or fourth episode of this show. [00:49:26] Speaker A: What would you say to Corey and Mark on episode three? If you could go back in time and talk to them both? What would you say? What words? [00:49:36] Speaker B: That's a really good question. Believe it or not, we'll still be doing this three years from now. [00:49:42] Speaker A: We will, yeah. But anyway, look, it's superb, right? It's a movie that takes its time. It's almost a documentary style approach. It gets instant acclaim just through having Rebecca Hall as Christine Chubach. Anything that just I'm in awe of her effortless, luminous talent and gravitas that she attaches to everything she deigns to show up in. She's in it. Who else is in it? Dexter is in it. What's his name? Michael hall. [00:50:15] Speaker B: Michael C. Hall. [00:50:16] Speaker A: Michael C. Hall. Yeah. But yes. For those unaware, christine Chubback attempted to take her own life live on air during a news anchor news broadcast. And we did, didn't she? She didn't die there and then, which I was astounded about. She hung on for a few days afterwards. Got you. But we see her attempts to further a career. We see her own kind of doubts about her own skills. Impostor syndrome, I guess we'd call it now. And the methodical, unhurried approach of the film just makes the actual event. When it does happen, all the more it catches you off guard. You completely forget until it's going to happen. In fact, until you see she's got this gun in her purse, that this is how this fucking story ends. [00:51:05] Speaker C: Right. [00:51:06] Speaker A: So when it does, man, you're smeared on the wall along with the contents of her head. [00:51:15] Speaker B: That's visceral. Thank you. Yeah. I do need to watch Christine. Now that you've watched it, it's time. [00:51:24] Speaker A: I watched it in two halves and actually went back and finished it. Such was the quality of the motion picture. [00:51:31] Speaker B: I never do that. If I start something and I don't finish it, there's like, very little chance I'm ever going to return to it. [00:51:38] Speaker A: But normally that's true of me, which is a big yeah, it's a point of favor for that movie. Yes. [00:51:46] Speaker B: We watched It's a Wonderful Knife on Shutter, which, despite to the title listen, it's like when you get those Christmas movies that have, like, a play on the title, and they just like, Santa's Sleigh, S-L-A-Y. [00:52:03] Speaker A: Violent Night. [00:52:05] Speaker C: Violent night. [00:52:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:06] Speaker B: Did you see that one, Leanne? [00:52:08] Speaker C: No, I saw it on okay. [00:52:12] Speaker B: It's so mean. I don't know if you like it, but it's a Home Alone kind of situation. It's fun. [00:52:19] Speaker A: They should have gone with Violent fright. Or is that too much? [00:52:22] Speaker B: That's too far. Yeah. You got to pick one or the other here. I think they got it right. But the thing about those is that when they have those kinds of titles, you expect them to be a little unhinged and fun. You should kind of, at various points, be, like, laughing out loud at things, like, whether it's like, just cartoonish violence or jokes or whatever it is, that's what you should get out of it. And it's a wonderful knife. Does not deliver. [00:52:49] Speaker A: I think the title is the pun is probably the best thing about the film. [00:52:52] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. [00:52:53] Speaker A: Well, look, it isn't for me. There we go. Right? I am approaching 45. I am quite embittered by now, quite jaded, pretty much sick of every breath is another fucking burden right at this point in my life. And violent. It's a fucking wonderful knife. Was horror for children. It was some Scooby Doo ass fucking toothless, just child horror. And it did nothing for me except. [00:53:20] Speaker B: That it's too violent to be for kids. That's kind of the problem for me with it. Obviously, we would have watched it and, like, your kids have watched Final Destination or whatever, they would watch it. But I don't think the vibe of it isn't the violence. You know what feels like a lot of parents would be like, no, I. [00:53:39] Speaker A: Wouldn'T show it to my kids, but only because it isn't very good. [00:53:42] Speaker B: Well, sure, right. Exactly. But, yeah, it feels like it's got the tone of something made for Tweens with the violence that doesn't feel like it's consciously aimed at Tweens. [00:53:54] Speaker A: What was that other time travel slasher that we saw recently? [00:53:57] Speaker B: That I fell asleep, which was good. You just fell asleep? [00:54:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Watch that one instead. Watch that one. [00:54:03] Speaker B: Watch the other one, the one with Kiernan Shipka that I can't think of. What the name of it is? Off my head. But it was good. It's Wonderful, not so much less so. Didn't hit the it's. I hate It's a Wonderful Life. So if you don't like It's a Wonderful Life, you're not why do you. [00:54:21] Speaker A: Hate It's a Wonderful Life? What the fuck is your problem? [00:54:23] Speaker B: Do you like It's a Wonderful Life? [00:54:25] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh, yes. Frankly, you do. [00:54:28] Speaker B: Leanne yes. Where do you stand? [00:54:30] Speaker C: I mean, we watch it, of course. [00:54:34] Speaker B: Yeah, you have to. [00:54:35] Speaker A: I like Jimmy Stewart. [00:54:37] Speaker B: I like Jimmy Stewart. The whole thing is just depressing and too long. [00:54:42] Speaker C: Right. The sisters. Sisters. [00:54:45] Speaker A: No, he works in a bank. [00:54:47] Speaker B: Yeah. And then he's going to kill himself. And then so it's like an angel named Clarence comes and turns to see that it was a good thing. He was in the thinking of something else. [00:55:05] Speaker A: They're in that hotel. [00:55:07] Speaker C: You know what I'm saying? [00:55:09] Speaker B: Yes. [00:55:09] Speaker C: It was like a musical. And for a moment there, I was like, Mark likes that. [00:55:14] Speaker B: Okay. [00:55:15] Speaker C: What was I thinking of? [00:55:17] Speaker B: Is it white Christmas? Yeah, I think it's white Christmas. I also don't like white Christmas. No, I find it's Wonderful Life just straight depressing. And I remember as a child when he's getting like, have you watched The End? [00:55:33] Speaker A: He goes back at the end and. [00:55:34] Speaker B: He'S all happy and he's happy, right? Yeah. It does not balance for me. The whole thing is just, like, miserable. And that's why it tanked when it came out. Nobody liked that movie until it was in the public domain and people could show it for free on TV and they made it a classic. But it bombed when it initially came out. [00:55:53] Speaker A: I'll watch it five times over before I watch it. To wonderful night again. [00:55:58] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a toss up for me there, I think. [00:56:00] Speaker A: Yes. [00:56:02] Speaker B: I watched yesterday, I went to the movies to see the movie Saltburn, which stars Barry Keoghan, who is an interesting actor. I think he has a lot in common with James Badge Dale, and that's why I kind of like him. But this movie is man, I had a great time with this. I wasn't sure at first. It's like, if you here's what I think is genius about this. It has fucking nothing to say. I think the director is the same person who did Promising Young Woman, which was supposed to be this big, important movie. But then it was like the message was just awful in it and it did not deliver at all on what was promised by it. This, if it has anything to say, Lord knows it's so shallow and it's basically a British period costume drama like your Downton Abbeys, like your Pride and Prejudice, but takes place in 2006 and is unfucking. Hinged. And so the storyline in this is basically that Barry Keoghan goes to Oxford and he's like this poor kid and everyone's mean to him and all that kind of stuff, but he ends up befriending this very wealthy student played by Jacob Elordi, who is 9000ft tall. And he ends up being invited by Jacob Elordi to spend the summer at his house because he doesn't want to go home to his addict mother, and his father has just died and all this kind of so you know, you get the kind of typical, like, oh, poor kid going into a rich house kind know, vibe and all the like, oh, it's so uncomfortable and everything. But it's very funny, the satire of rich people, and it is very biting. Got Richard E. Grant, all that kind of stuff. And then things turn, like, insane. It kind of has this twist moment in it where suddenly you realize that everything is not what you thought that it was. And every choice from that point forth in that movie is just like batshit. And so in the beginning of it, I was like, yeah, whatever, it's fine. It's just like a story of a poor kid at a boarding school or whatever, or a university. And then it's like when it turns around. Much like one of my favorite F. Scott Fitzgerald stories, probably my favorite F. Scott Fitzgerald story, the diamond as Big as the Ritz, where a rich kid invites his friend home from boarding school and tells him that his father owns a diamond that's as big as the Ritz Carlton Hotel. And they go home to this guy's house and over the course of this, the kid begins to realize that he does indeed have that diamond and he'll do anything to protect it. And every year this kid brings another kid home from school and he has to be killed at the end of the summer so that no one finds out about the diamond. I love that kind of bait and switch sort of thing where you're like, oh, I'm just like reading or watching something that's about one thing and then it turns out to be something entirely different. So totally shallow. Very pretty movie that is. Yeah. It's basically like if you took a costume drama and put it in 2006 and just thus cranked everything to eleven and everything is insane in it. Big recommend saltburn. It's a lot of fun. [00:59:36] Speaker A: Okay. You'll know, it's when I've seen the trailer for yeah. [00:59:40] Speaker B: That you were like about two thirds. [00:59:42] Speaker A: Through the trailer, I was like, I'm not forever destined to go unseen by these eyes. Motion picture. [00:59:48] Speaker B: I can't necessarily predict whether you'd like it or not, but I kind of think you would. I think you would probably you would be like just where I was the first half hour to like, okay. And then you'd probably get into it. [01:00:02] Speaker A: I should keep that in mind. Now I'll just dive in here. I watched a documentary last night that I feel it's important to talk about. A documentary called Zoo. [01:00:16] Speaker B: Oh, Zoo. [01:00:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Zoo. [01:00:18] Speaker B: Oh boy. [01:00:22] Speaker A: Have you seen it? [01:00:23] Speaker B: Yes. [01:00:24] Speaker A: Okay, so Zoo, I mean, we've talked we've devoted an episode, in fact, to paraphilias on the show. [01:00:30] Speaker B: Yeah, leanne, things are about to get fucked up in here. Just let you know right out the gate. [01:00:34] Speaker C: Yeah. Here we go. [01:00:35] Speaker A: Trigger warning. So Zoo explores the notion of Zoophilia, in particular sexual attraction to horses. And in particular, it sketches out the events leading up to the recording of the infamous Mr. Hands video, which did the rounds on the Wild West internet of the kind of the early two thousand s. Now a lot of it is like kind of a dramatization, a recreation of those events. While there are monologues being given off camera from Zooophiles horse enthusiasts, right, who speak of the social element of the community that they're a part of getting together at one another's ranches or properties, having a drink, vetting newcomers, accepting kind of applications via email and on message boards. And people would gather at ranches and at farms and at properties and would enjoy relations with horses to varying degrees. Right. One guy spoke at length about how sometimes he would just go out and just feel the horse's balls for a while, just weigh up those balls for a little bit. And that's as far as I'd go that night. But it's frank, it's candid, it's not pleasant, but it exists. It is out there. I don't know how many of our listeners will have Mr. Hands back in the old days of the Internet, I did. And in those days, watching any kind of video was a conscious act. You had to want to see it. Because of the time it took to download the pain in the ass of early Internet, to download the 30, 40, 50 or so seconds of Mr. Hands, you had to want to see it. And I unfortunately did. And even though I haven't seen it probably in 20 OD years, I could still describe it for you. Shot by shot agonized grunt by agonized grunt. It's worth its place in for me, right. The guy involved died of a perforated colon or perforated rectum or something. And this documentary details the events leading up to and immediately following that event. [01:02:59] Speaker B: Imagine. [01:03:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:03:02] Speaker B: What a way to go. [01:03:04] Speaker A: What a way to go. Right? They stopped shy of actually showing the video during this documentary, right? Yeah. But in what I thought was a cheeky little move, you do see a couple of frames of it, and the frames tell you all you need to know, and you hear some of it as well. You hear the sounds that this guy made at the fucking moment of truth, right? The grunting. It is a noise comprised of both agony and a kind of discovery. He fucking went to the edge, and I hope it was worth it. [01:03:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess we can't really ask him that, but I would venture probably not. [01:03:53] Speaker A: No. [01:03:54] Speaker B: It's like there's like, die doing what you loved and then there's like, oh, no. [01:04:02] Speaker C: Make a different choice. [01:04:04] Speaker B: I would have done differently. It's like always the families, right? Like, oh, at least he died doing what he's loved. Like, nobody is going to be nobody's going to be saying that. No. [01:04:18] Speaker A: Let's say I watched it, so you don't have to. [01:04:21] Speaker B: Yeah. There you go. [01:04:21] Speaker C: Well, thank you. [01:04:23] Speaker B: Appreciate that. I also watched a documentary that I think, Mark, you will hate based on your take on cult docs and whatnot, but love has won. Have you heard of this one yet, Leanne? This feels like this is more something I think you would be interested in. It's not like horror, but it is horrific. It's a. Documentary series called Love Has One, which is on HBO or on Max. I mean, and it is about a cult that sprang up around this woman who called herself Mother God, maybe come across here. Yeah. And eventually she died. And they just sort of weakened at bernie's her for several weeks. And it's know, there's some like, say when I watched that Twin Flames one where you're like you kind of get these were lonely people who they're not conventionally attractive. They've been unlucky in love. Like so many things that they were down on in their lives. And even though this guy was such a ginormous asshole that you're like, how could anyone follow him? You see how they were susceptible and things like that. And it's like this one, it's just like these people just idiots. This woman, she has like a pantheon of dead people surrounding her and a couple living ones. But like how she says sometimes communicating through are these various dead celebrities and stuff like that. And amongst them is like Robin Williams. So these people still believe this. These former cult members still believe everything from that cult. They are still completely indoctrinated into this despite her death. And they're like, yeah, so then Robin Williams came and told us that we were being selfish. And there's this straight series about this super judgy deeply into believing that Trump is going to fix everything and that he has all these energies that we need to heal the world and stuff like that. And that's why there's so many attacks on Trump and just insanity and yeah, this woman was the entire time just drinking tons and tons of alcohol, not eating and taking Colloidal silver. So she was slowly, literally turning blue and things like that. The whole thing is just like you have to really want this to believe this shit because it is so unhinged. Yeah. Love Has One is a worthwhile doc if you just want like you want to see a cult that you do not understand at all. [01:07:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:07:14] Speaker B: It's not one of those ones where you're like, I have such sympathy for these people and how they got wrapped up in it. No, they're just like a bunch of dumb white people. Like, my mom was mean to me, so I went and joined a cult. What the fuck is wrong with you people? [01:07:34] Speaker A: Let me see one or two more to rip through. Because I'm an advocate of films as treats, right? Sometimes you can give yourself a little treat and you can put on a comfort movie. Put on a movie that you know, inside out and back to front, but you'll always get that fucking serotonin release from, I decided to treat myself to The Day of the Dead the other day. Romero's Day of the Dead. Third installment of his end of the world zombie saga. For my money, not just the best of that saga, but the best film. He made it's so fucking good. It is the apex, I believe, of the zombie genre. It is everything brilliant that those films could be at their best. It is stunning. The gore and the creature work is phenomenal. The social commentary is right there writ large, the nods to the wider kind of picture. It's a very intimate film focused on a kind of a military and scientific operation happening underground right at the height of the dead walking millions of corpses to one survivor. Humanity is fucked. And you see this microcosm, this kind of petri dish of humanity falling apart. It's a masterpiece. And every time I watch it, it gets better. [01:08:49] Speaker B: Beautiful. What was your other one that you watched. [01:08:54] Speaker A: Finally? Oh, yeah, the marvels. Today, just more than anything else, right. I had an opportunity to grab a couple of hours to myself, so I went to see the Marvels, the most recent Marvel Universe Festival of Light and Sound. And it was some dumb shit. That's all it was. It was brief, it was pretty, but it was of no value, really, in the final analysis. [01:09:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I watched it last week and I had pretty much the same thing. It made absolutely no impression on me whatsoever. [01:09:30] Speaker A: None at all. [01:09:31] Speaker C: Such a bummer. [01:09:32] Speaker B: Yeah, it really is. Just because I love Captain Marvel. I loved the show. Miss Marvel. I'm, like, technically on board for the whole thing, but it was just like, this is a waste of time. [01:09:46] Speaker A: Always good to see Samuel L. Jackson. My favorite bit was the Ghostbusters trailer. [01:09:51] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot that that happened. I saw a good trailer yesterday, too, that I was going to bring up. But it's fine. It'll come to me eventually. [01:10:01] Speaker A: Have you seen anything in the two years since you've been on the cast? Anything that has shocked or scared or upset or disgusted you? [01:10:12] Speaker C: Not intentionally. [01:10:15] Speaker B: That's fair. [01:10:17] Speaker C: One time at work at work I was, like, in the break room and someone put on the trailer for Human Centipede and I oh, no. Yeah, I saw it. [01:10:27] Speaker B: Didn't you work with children? [01:10:28] Speaker A: Didn't you work with children? [01:10:28] Speaker C: No, this is when I worked at Apple. Okay. The teachers are really dark right now. [01:10:36] Speaker B: Seems appropriate. [01:10:38] Speaker C: It was a long time ago when I worked for Apple, and I was like, what? And that was, like, probably 15 years ago. And I've been in shock ever since. [01:10:54] Speaker B: My mom has casually seen multiple of those movies. [01:10:57] Speaker C: I bet she has. [01:10:59] Speaker B: It's the weirdest thing. Well, that's 100% that's such a weird movie. I don't yeah, it is weird. Why'd you watch three of them? First one wasn't enough. Okay, well, then let us journey out of that and into the spiritual realm. Like I said, Leanne and I come from the same church exangelical background, but you were, like, way deeper in. Really grew up in it. MK. [01:11:32] Speaker C: Yes. It was our education, it was our religion. It was everything. [01:11:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Do you want to just for the listeners, talk a little bit about that background? [01:11:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:11:43] Speaker B: Give a sense. [01:11:44] Speaker C: We're Southern Baptist missionaries, and before that, both my dad's brother and sister are pastors. Most of my cousins are pastors. I have a degree that would have been great to work in ministry. Totally encapsulated in evangelicalism. And then some of our friends are like some of the most influential people in the evangelical. Not really like friends, but people that we know of are in that movement. So until I was probably like 25, I was fully evangelical, believed it, did the whole thing, and then I went through a dark night of the soul. Have you heard of these dark night of the souls? [01:12:34] Speaker B: Yes, definitely. [01:12:35] Speaker A: You elaborate a little bit. It's not a term I've heard, but. [01:12:38] Speaker C: Spiritually it would be like, for me, it felt like I had like I just stopped hearing from God and the relationship that I had was just gone and nowhere to be found. And so it was like, suddenly one day I was like, model Christian, living my life for the Lord Jesus Christ. And then it was just like everything changed. And it happened around when I had kids. [01:13:04] Speaker A: Okay, because I was going to ask, could you attribute it to anything external? [01:13:08] Speaker C: Yeah, it happened when my first child did not sleep through the night until he was three and a half, and he was just like super high need. And I was literally just like, begging for sleep at that. And I was like, I guess we're not taking prayer requests anymore because nobody's sleeping. And it just totally demolished that idea that I would be able to influence any situation with thoughts or prayer. [01:13:39] Speaker B: That's really interesting. No. Go on, Lee. [01:13:45] Speaker C: Oh, I was going to say that's what started unraveling it. And then when you start having kids and having to think about the way that I would want to raise them and the way that I want them to be secure in themselves, everything about Christianity, I have a lot of anxiety, I have a lot of mental illness, as Marcia knows. [01:14:07] Speaker B: Right. [01:14:09] Speaker C: But as a kid, to tell a child with anxiety that demons are real and that you have some kind of control over how that's going to affect you was not okay for me. So I think one of the things that I really clung to as a child was the knowledge that there is a good God who cares for me and has my back and is in some way guiding me. And so no matter what I went through, I was like, that was my home because we moved so much. But then when it all just kind of fell apart, I did the exit with most people, maybe a little earlier than most people, and then just didn't stop going to church. Pulled my life out, which was painful, like, to pull yourself out of church pull yourself out of the community and not really understanding why, but just being like, this hurts and I can't be here anymore. And then just continued life and continued having kids and continued to experience things in a way that I didn't expect for them to go. And so I think for a while it was fine. I didn't need to have a religion. I didn't need to have the certainty or the uncertainty. It was just life was totally fine. But when I don't know if you knew this, but when my cat fell and broke his back and was paralyzed for two years, I took care of him for almost two years. That's really what brought back my spiritual life. [01:15:56] Speaker B: Right? I do remember you saying that. [01:15:58] Speaker C: Yeah, because I was taking my cat like, I found him, and I was working for a vet at the time, which was just, like, awesome to have a personal connection to someone who can answer the questions about this animal that you're freaking out over. You could just text and be like, can you just come over and check? Are they okay? So the timing of everything seemed really divine and very like, maybe this is a plan. Maybe this is part of a bigger picture. And I think it just really what it did was reignite that hope of something better. I really hope that my cat walked again and was a miracle. I want to experience that miracle and literally on my knees every night changing and expressing splatter and doing all the gross things for cats, but I just did it because I was like, that's what you do. You just take care of it. And it just became a ritual. And it was in that ritual that I was like, oh, my gosh, I hope again, I hope that this goes differently. And also I might have faith that this could go differently. Wow. And it wasn't that my cat was healed and walked again. He didn't, right? Yeah, he died of a UTI, and he was getting better, but he wasn't better all the way. But I did see improvement in him, and I think it was just that hope in something that could never happen. I believed in it again because I let myself believe in it. And so then it was kind of like things started coming back and then yeah, it just was a really natural I think more so people also observe you going through your spiritual life and maybe observe that, oh, she seems more open than I would imagine that I put off. You know what I mean? [01:17:57] Speaker B: Right, yeah, sure. [01:17:59] Speaker C: And when I meet people a lot now, people will be like, oh, you're a witch. And I'm like. [01:18:06] Speaker B: Okay. [01:18:09] Speaker C: And they're like, well, that's what you're giving. [01:18:10] Speaker B: That's the vibe, right? [01:18:12] Speaker C: That's the witchy cottage core vibe. And I'm like, okay, sure, if that's what it is, I love that. So I think it just kind of started becoming something that other people associated with me and was like, well, you should ask her. She's like a healer. She's really into healing, all that kind of stuff. So then it started being kind of, like, getting that feedback again and kind of caused me to be like, well, what do I believe? But, yeah, I wasn't thinking I would get to tell this, but this is part of the pinnacle of what happened from, like, a year and a half ago, which but, like, I actually experienced maybe like, a spiritual awakening with a mental health crisis. [01:19:04] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. [01:19:05] Speaker C: Okay. There was some really strong moments of me being like, this is who I am, and this is what I am all about, and being very sure of myself. But it also, because it was such a foreign feeling, just rocked my mental illness, where it was just like, what is even real? [01:19:25] Speaker B: We, like we talked during that time and stuff. [01:19:28] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [01:19:28] Speaker C: Corey had to, like corey could see what was going on with me. And it's super helpful to have a friend that you've had for ever who understands not only your religious past, but our families share the mental illness. The diseases are the same, so we understand each other. [01:19:48] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. All the same kinds of crazy in and around us. Yeah. But I remember that being very much sort of wrapped up in each other, sort of like a break at the same time, trying to process these thoughts of spirituality. Go ahead, Mark. [01:20:08] Speaker A: Were the two states of mind connected then? Do you think that this kind of spiritual impact that you experienced and a flare up in your mental well being, were they two different facets of the same event, would you say, or were they unconnected or did one cause the other? [01:20:24] Speaker C: I think they're so interconnected. They're so interconnected. And I think that happens a lot, too. When I see people in the spiritual community talking about their Kundalini awakening or something like that, I'm like, that sounds like mental illness. It's just such a fine line between the kind of delusions that I was having were very spiritually based, and I think it's just because my mind doesn't have context for anything else. [01:20:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:20:55] Speaker C: Because I was raised with the belief that God and angels and prayer and all that kind of stuff is real. Once I recovered from that and kind of got my bearings of, like, who am I? And then immediately after that went into teaching and was with children all the time, where you cannot fake anything, which was a spiritual experience in itself, but yeah. And so I think as I've recovered from that, there's been a both and where I really do enjoy spiritual life. I was a very spiritual kid. Like, going to camp as a kid for me and telling me that there's, like, a Holy Spirit. I was like, Let me just do a potion. I was always making potions as a kid. I was always in the garden. That's another thing, too. I started gardening a lot, and there's so much. Then I start drawing herbs. Then I start looking like the little witch surrounded by cats and herbs. [01:21:55] Speaker B: So what would you say now? You would say where you kind of land at this point, obviously, this is a continuous process, but if you were to describe what your faith or your spirituality or things like that are, what do you believe at this point? Today, on December 3, 2023, not for yeah. [01:22:20] Speaker C: I would say that it does change day to day. Some days I'm like, I cannot even believe that that's a thing. I would say that I'm open. I think, like Mark said in the beginning of the podcast, you can be consensual in what you're open, like, the experiences that you're opening yourself to. And for right now, I found Tarot cards as a really good tool to experience spirituality, but also just like a tool of self reflection. [01:22:54] Speaker A: Yes. [01:22:55] Speaker C: And sometimes that comes in with a conference with a little voice in my head that is like, this is what you should do. This is what you shouldn't do. That little voice in my head that was gone for, like, a decade came back, and now I can hear. So whether it's my highest self, whether it's a god, whether it's spirits at all, I would say I'm a very intuitive person. I am very intuitive. As far as the situation you were talking about with Kelly Debartok, she was intuitive in that time. I can be intuitive enough to even know that my children are going to walk in or all the things that you just keep them clocked up here, whether I'm just keeping hold of information or do I pick up on things that people don't see all the time. [01:23:51] Speaker B: Right, yeah. [01:23:52] Speaker A: Nice. [01:23:52] Speaker B: Yeah, that's fascinating. And I love it. I love just hearing that. Like I said, it's a different I think the way that you put it, too, it's like it's not that we're in a different place, like, just a different perspective. [01:24:04] Speaker C: And I would say I believe in magic and you believe in magic? [01:24:09] Speaker B: I believe in magic, yeah. [01:24:11] Speaker C: You believe in magic. You seek out all these experience that create that. Like, what if that was true? [01:24:18] Speaker B: Sure, yeah. I get what you're saying. Right. Yeah. It's like the sort of thing where I've said that I don't believe in ghosts. If you take me to a haunted house, I'm willing to experience it as if I did or something. [01:24:32] Speaker C: But your body responds to it exact same way, whether you believe it or not. [01:24:36] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. I get you there. [01:24:38] Speaker C: You're there. So I think I would just say, yeah, it depends on the day, and I'm not really trying to convince anyone of anything. It's just like, I love how consensual post Christianity is, where it's just like, if it's not for you, then it's not for you. [01:24:57] Speaker B: Right, absolutely. That's a huge thing. I think that people don't necessarily see that from the outside, that the idea of everything about your life being consensual is an entirely new thought process that has never, ever been a part of your reality until you journey out of it. And it's really difficult to kind of get that apart, to be like, just imagine consent had nothing to do with any of your beliefs, any of the things that your path in know, being set out before you and all that kind of stuff. That ability to choose and say yeah or no or whatever is huge. [01:25:35] Speaker C: Hold on, I think Brennan's here now. [01:25:37] Speaker B: Oh, nice. [01:25:38] Speaker C: 1 second. [01:25:39] Speaker B: No problem. [01:25:45] Speaker A: Well, no one asks to be born, do they? [01:25:49] Speaker B: No, they don't. [01:25:52] Speaker A: No one exists by consent. Everything that follows our birth is done to an unwilling participant. We're all here now. [01:26:02] Speaker B: Just imagine that also then you had no consent in any of the choices you made once you were here. [01:26:08] Speaker A: Suck. [01:26:10] Speaker C: Are we describing our childhood? [01:26:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Right, exactly. But yeah. So that said, and thanks for sharing that journey. [01:26:21] Speaker A: Yeah, completely. [01:26:22] Speaker B: Just real briefly, Mark, you want to tell us what you've learned about Tarot before Leanne dives into it with us? [01:26:29] Speaker A: By engaging in Tarot this evening, we are engaging in something which can be traced back to around about the late 14th, early 15th century. Right. Before that, roots in Egypt or China probably, but it's really in the 15th century in Europe, where Italy, in fact, that Tarot kind of split itself off from playing cards. And initially, yes, used for playing games, but they gradually gained kind of occult associations. In the 18th century, you would find them linked with alchemy, astrology, even more esoteric stuff like Kabbalah. And then the closer to our timeline you go 18th, 19th centuries, that's when you get it to use being more popular in things like Divination. And then it's in the 20th century that they became useful for psychologists used them in therapy, self exploration, introspection, that kind of thing. And and since then, pop culture takes over. They appear more in movies, literature, art, and are often used as a means of reflection, exploration, trying to find, trying to intuit what your path might be. But yes, it's not a new practice. It's been around for fucking hundreds of years. [01:27:56] Speaker B: That's really interesting. I didn't know that psychologists used it. And this idea I told Leanne early, I was like, I have no context, really, for Tarot besides seeing it in movies or things like that. So this sort of concept of it just being like, in a way, a tool of self reflection is like, okay, I had not known about that as its sort of central idea. [01:28:21] Speaker C: I think a lot of the people that I follow so a lot of the content that I engage with on TikTok is people who are doing collective readings or anything like that. And I grew up listening to many sermons every single week and being like, does this apply to me or not? Does this apply to me or not? Does this apply to me? So it's been very helpful to have that spiritual language and message come back and be able to evaluate, like, is that me or is this not me? Or is this me or not me? So it's really more of just like a self assessment. Or sometimes I'll do it with my husband and I'll pull cards for him and be like, this is your situation, and then he'll either agree or disagree. [01:29:02] Speaker B: But either way, it's not fortune telling. [01:29:05] Speaker C: Yeah, it's not fortune it's not fortune telling. [01:29:10] Speaker B: The cards aren't prescribing something to you or things like that. It's a way for you to, like, you pull a card from Brendan, you talk about if it doesn't apply, all right, but we've talked out this yeah. [01:29:21] Speaker C: But then you've had this really beneficial conversation of this that's encouraging, or this is scary, or whatever it is. [01:29:29] Speaker B: Okay. [01:29:30] Speaker A: I love that. Do we take it in turns or. [01:29:34] Speaker C: This is what we can do. So the deck that I got that I was super excited about, so I have this normal deck, which is just like it's just got the typical all the stuff that you would normally see, but the deck that I got that I was like, OOH, I should show Cory and Mark. This is it has all the meanings and all the associations and all the wonderful everything on there. And it was actually made by, let me say Raven and Rogue. And she had a stroke and she loved doing Tarot, but she forgot everything or just didn't really have the capacity to memorize the deck anymore. And most Tarot card readers just have memorized the deck, right? Memorized how whatever they're saying to you is pretty much pre designed. Yes. [01:30:24] Speaker A: Right. [01:30:24] Speaker C: So if I pull cards for you guys, I don't have to look up the meaning and second guess myself. It's basically like fortune cookie. [01:30:34] Speaker A: Leanne. Can I ask then, just for my knowledge, is there like a Tarot kind of manual or guidebook that you have? So if this reading from you, would another practitioner elsewhere interpret the same cards the same way, or does everybody have their own kind of version of what's going on? [01:30:57] Speaker C: That's what I would say. I think someone with more experience could look at the deck and say more and give more information of how the cards interact with each other. I think there's always more information that could be had. And I wouldn't necessarily consider myself an expert on Tarot, but I have fun pulling it for people because it's just like, whatever. But what I was going to show you so this deck comes with a nifty little thing where there can be predetermined based on when I pop out the cards, depending on where I put them. It could be like, this card is going to be the major issue that you're having. This card is going to be the further issue for you guys. If I wanted to do, like, a three card poll, then I would just pull three cards for you, and one would be the past, one would be the present, and the last card would be the future. [01:31:57] Speaker A: So cool. [01:32:00] Speaker C: That's all it would be. And so you would have to consent and then decide what situation. So recently, I've been wondering about work situations and what's going on with that. So I had a lady pull my cards. She did a whole spread that usually takes her, like, an hour to do, and she's just this sweet older woman, just, like, helping me try to figure out my work situation. Super fun. Every time I've had someone read my cards, it's just been super sweet. And, yeah, they've been super helpful and fun. So when I got this deck, I was like, I can do that. So I could do that for you guys. Do you guys want to do, like, a three card poll, or do you want to do so will this be. [01:32:43] Speaker B: For both of us? Is this like, a jack of all graves? I could do reading or do you individual? [01:32:48] Speaker A: No, I'd like to see an individual. [01:32:53] Speaker C: Yeah, I could do a personal one. And do you want to do three cards, or you want to do, like, a main theme? [01:33:00] Speaker A: What do you think, Corey? Three cards each? [01:33:02] Speaker B: Yeah, let's do it. [01:33:02] Speaker C: Let's do three cards. Okay, so who wants to go first? [01:33:07] Speaker A: Corey? [01:33:08] Speaker C: Yeah, let's do Cory. Okay. Cory will be good because I know Corey, so I can pull from all my previous knowledge. So do you have an issue or, like, a work thing? A love thing, a friend thing? [01:33:23] Speaker B: Sure. I mean, like, work wise. You want me to tell you what. [01:33:29] Speaker C: I'm no, we'll talk it through. [01:33:31] Speaker B: All right. [01:33:31] Speaker C: We'll start work thing with, like obviously you're probably thinking of something super specific. So I'll pull the cards, and then we'll kind of see where it goes. The first one popped out was the High Priestess. [01:33:48] Speaker B: All right, nice. [01:33:50] Speaker C: That's a good one about her. All right. And then we got six of wands. So that's like, your current situation. [01:33:59] Speaker B: Six of ones. [01:34:03] Speaker A: Wands. Yeah. Okay. [01:34:05] Speaker B: Like seven of nine. Okay. [01:34:07] Speaker C: And then the emperor. [01:34:08] Speaker B: Okay. [01:34:09] Speaker C: So these are pretty major cards. These are very powerful cards. The High Priestess. This is kind of like where you've been in the past, maybe, like, moving into the new thing. It's about intuition, unconsciousness, your inner voice history. So it's saying you need to listen to your gut meditate, reflect and turn inward as the answers are within you and you're headed towards a period of growth. So that's kind of like the vibe, the last bit for you, which is pretty straightforward. [01:34:43] Speaker B: Yeah, it is indeed. [01:34:47] Speaker C: But let's see what it goes into. So it goes into, right now, the six of Wands, which is about progress, confidence, victory and public acknowledgment. [01:34:56] Speaker B: Okay. [01:34:58] Speaker C: An important milestone has been reached and you're feeling confident and self assured. It kind of feels like D and D. Not only have you reached your goals, but others have taken notice of you and you've received a claim. Don't let guilt stand in the way of your success. Nice. In the future is the emperor, which is another major arcana, which I can't tell you all the things, but it's a pretty big deal. [01:35:29] Speaker B: Okay. [01:35:29] Speaker C: But you're in control and your hard work has brought the great rewards and you'll find yourself taking on new responsibilities. Now is a great time to take on projects or Hobies requiring more mental fortitude. [01:35:42] Speaker A: Wow. Nice. [01:35:44] Speaker C: So yours is pretty easy breezy. [01:35:46] Speaker B: It is, yes. [01:35:47] Speaker C: You're doing awesome. Keep doing what you're doing. You're just going to keep getting more opportunities. [01:35:54] Speaker A: I mean, look, what was that about recognition? What were we talking about? [01:35:57] Speaker B: Right? We're literally just talking about this. And even in the work way, it totally does match up with sort of my journey in work right now and being in sort of a position of, like, at work. They have said, we want to give you more to do. We're working on this stuff. We're trying to sort of expand your role and all of that kind of stuff and sort of trying to take that in and be like, all right, well, then from here, hopefully, this becomes something within the organization that I'm already in and ultimately just sort of, like, leaning into that idea of like, yeah, I have that confidence and that people are giving it back to me from outwards as well, and being like, all right, then, let's go. [01:36:46] Speaker C: Yeah. You have both the high priestess and the emperor, which would just as you would assume from any connotation from that, it's a very powerful stance, and it's going towards an even, like, the emperor more powerful stance because of patriarchy. [01:37:04] Speaker B: Right. Because the Tarot is still laid into. [01:37:08] Speaker A: The stacked against you. [01:37:10] Speaker C: Yours is pretty painless. [01:37:12] Speaker B: That was painless. Yeah. Thank you. [01:37:14] Speaker A: Nice one, Corey. Good work, mate. [01:37:17] Speaker B: To your point, right, of thinking about this as a way of thinking through where you are in things. Right. [01:37:23] Speaker A: I can certainly see the application. Yeah. [01:37:25] Speaker B: That could have also been that it's like, that's not where I'm at right now. And being like, all right, forgive me. [01:37:31] Speaker A: But I see nothing spiritual here at all so far. All I'm seeing here is a tool that you can use to rationalize, contextualize and organize your thoughts and work towards taking action against something. You know what I mean? All good so far. [01:37:46] Speaker C: And I think spirituality comes in from the point of obviously it was a good message for Corey. It feels like good to have. [01:37:55] Speaker A: Is it always, then? Is it always okay. [01:38:01] Speaker C: Sometimes. A lot of mine for a while. It was telling me, no one's coming to rescue you. You need to take the reins. You need to go like you're the adult. So that was like when I started reading Tarot. It was like, hello, you need to take responsibility for yourself. And now it's just like, I'm in a season where I'm getting a lot of telling me to rest. Of course, I'm in recuperation from mental health stuff, and so it's just been a really easy way to interact with how I'm feeling or what's going on. But, yeah, it can be very let's say it was all negative and she got cards that did not feel like they resonated with her situation. Sometimes that would just take a card, and if she had gotten the High Priestess in reverse, then that would have been the negative side of that card. So if she had gotten the negative side and she was feeling like that wasn't necessarily what she wanted to do, it would be like, how can you flip this card again to get the results that you want to get from this situation? [01:39:13] Speaker B: Totally. That's really interesting. [01:39:16] Speaker A: Very good shit. Yeah. [01:39:18] Speaker C: It could be spiritual in the sense, and there's more that could be done. I could have us pause, but it just reminds me of prayer, and I'm just not really going to do that. Sure. [01:39:30] Speaker B: Right. Like, there are ways to make that. [01:39:33] Speaker A: Would be a first for the cast. We've never. [01:39:37] Speaker C: Prayer. [01:39:38] Speaker B: It sounds like it's about how you use them, right? [01:39:41] Speaker C: Yes. [01:39:42] Speaker B: Oh, hello, Kim. [01:39:43] Speaker C: This is una. This is the latest, but you want to do Mark? [01:39:53] Speaker B: Yeah, let's do Mark. [01:39:54] Speaker A: Okay, let's do it. Let's do this. [01:39:56] Speaker B: Set that intention. Yeah. [01:39:57] Speaker C: What's your intention? Do you want to talk to us about excited. So what do you want to know? [01:40:03] Speaker A: Have a little think. So let's see. I would have something in mind around what is it about just how can I amend or change the way I am to get the best results out of my life? What is in my way currently? What behaviors do I need to address? What potentially am I missing out on? What could I be doing more of just how do I suck and to what degree? And how to not suck, I guess. [01:40:31] Speaker B: What'S in your way? [01:40:32] Speaker C: Maybe like, what's your block, and is it you or is it something external? [01:40:37] Speaker A: There we go. There we go. [01:40:39] Speaker C: Okay. [01:40:39] Speaker A: Sounds about right. [01:40:40] Speaker C: Yeah. And that's another thing, is I would approach everything from, like, I don't do any negative spiritual anything. [01:40:52] Speaker A: Well, that is a good question, actually. What is the kind of the nega version of you? What's nega leanne up to right now? Is she hexing people? [01:40:59] Speaker C: Is she what she knows? She's probably still going to church. [01:41:05] Speaker A: Yeah, possibly. What I'm asking, I guess, is, is there kind of a dark practitioner side of this? Is there an opposite to what you do, which is to look instinctively at the positive and how to kind of make good things happen. Do you have an equal? Yeah, bad witch shit. [01:41:24] Speaker C: I think I understand what you're saying. That is another part of it that always seeing things as this is going to work out. And something Brennan and I will say, things always work out for, like, things always work out for us. And you say that not knowing it's going to do it. Then I would try to shape all my language to, like, I've stopped saying or tried to stop saying sorry, but much more like thank you, or thanks for your patience, or I appreciate you, or anything like that. Coming at everything from the positive. Not in the toxic way. [01:41:59] Speaker B: Right. [01:42:00] Speaker C: But in a way that acknowledges who you are. [01:42:03] Speaker A: Realistic way. A way that exists. [01:42:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:42:06] Speaker C: And so if you say, how do I suck? Then you don't suck. [01:42:10] Speaker A: Yes, of course. I'm doing my usual bits self deprecating. [01:42:14] Speaker C: To the end because you're probably a perfectionist. You just want to know all the blind spots. [01:42:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:42:19] Speaker C: So you're looking for a blind spot. And we'll find it. [01:42:24] Speaker B: Look at how Mark is all, like, relaxed. He's like, let's do am. [01:42:29] Speaker C: Okay, let's see. We got Knight of Swords. Actually, all three of yours came out right. [01:42:38] Speaker B: There. How do you pick what you pull? [01:42:41] Speaker C: So it's random. I'm actually just shuffling. [01:42:45] Speaker A: How many cards are there in a deck? How many tarot cards are there? [01:42:48] Speaker C: I don't know. There's a lot. [01:42:50] Speaker B: Yeah, thick deck. [01:42:51] Speaker C: It's a big one. So when I shuffle, I just pull, and then it's just like chance. [01:42:57] Speaker B: Like, what pops out. Look at that. [01:42:59] Speaker C: So it's like marks popped out, like right. I don't have a question, so nothing's popping out. [01:43:04] Speaker B: Okay. Got you. [01:43:06] Speaker C: It's so weird. It's so weird. Have you ever worked with a pendulum? [01:43:10] Speaker B: No. [01:43:11] Speaker C: People use pendulums with like when you're pregnant, people will tell you put, like. [01:43:16] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I've seen over your belly. [01:43:17] Speaker A: And if it goes this way, tells. [01:43:18] Speaker C: You the gender, it goes that way. It's a girl. So I did that. But then recently, you'll just ask yes or no questions, and the pendulum will go one way for yes. It's very much like the Wiki board and all that kind of not the Wiki yeah. [01:43:36] Speaker B: Ouija board. Yeah, I got you. [01:43:37] Speaker C: Okay, so the idea is that your spirit team is influencing what comes out. What comes out. [01:43:46] Speaker B: Yeah, I got you. [01:43:47] Speaker C: Okay, let's see what we have here. So the first one is Knight of Swords. And this is going to metal. [01:43:55] Speaker B: It does sound metal. [01:43:57] Speaker C: It sounds hardcore. So the path is going to be action. There's a lot of impulse defense and a little ambitious. So you're on a mission, and there's no stopping you. The only problem is that you may be too quick to take action and you're not planning. Keep the energy flowing, but don't be calculated. Don't trip over anyone on your way either. You may be careless of the feelings of others on your mission, inadvertently, so try to remain empathetic. [01:44:31] Speaker A: Okay. I am not one of life's great planners. [01:44:34] Speaker B: No. [01:44:35] Speaker C: So does it feel like it kind of resonates? [01:44:37] Speaker A: Yes, certainly. [01:44:39] Speaker C: So the card depicts a knight of swords in an armor charging ahead with great passion on a white horse. Their head is like, you've just been charging through life, but maybe a little hastily, could use a little extra planning is what I'm kind of getting. And that maybe you need to be a little more empathetic. [01:45:05] Speaker A: Okay, I get that. [01:45:08] Speaker C: Maybe in the past. So that's maybe a personal part of growth. So now where you're at now is the six of wands, and it's progress, confidence, victory, and public acknowledgment. It's the same one that you have. [01:45:22] Speaker B: The same one, yeah. [01:45:23] Speaker A: Public acknowledgment. I do enjoy that. That is good. Yes. [01:45:28] Speaker C: So you guys are moving towards are you guys getting publicly acknowledged? [01:45:33] Speaker B: We are literally just talking about that of people's. YouTube comments yeah. All that kind of stuff. Yeah. [01:45:41] Speaker C: So you guys are getting a ton of love lately, and that's true. And that's weird that it's the same card for both of you, right. [01:45:49] Speaker A: With all those cards. [01:45:51] Speaker C: Shuffled them. Shuffled them multiple times. [01:45:54] Speaker B: Okay. [01:45:54] Speaker C: And then the last one is really good. It's the Wheel of Fortune. So it's the card of change, luck, destiny. It's like everything good. So you may be taking the good with the bad right now, and this is a cycle that you cannot control. Remember that no matter the outcome, the wheel always turns and nothing lasts forever. [01:46:19] Speaker A: Which is something I often say. [01:46:21] Speaker B: That's true. Yeah. [01:46:23] Speaker A: The finite is what it's all about, isn't it? That blink of an eye. [01:46:28] Speaker C: Yeah. So, I mean, it's just super quick and easy. You get to kind of, like, have a moment of reflection, but it sounds like they were pretty accurate for both of you. I mean, they vague, but yeah. [01:46:37] Speaker A: Good shit. [01:46:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:46:39] Speaker B: I think I like this kind of concept because I think my idea of it had been like it was fortune telling. It's like, oh, you're going to tell my future through these cards somehow, or things like that. As opposed to this being the sort. [01:46:54] Speaker A: Of a way now, isn't it? [01:46:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Right. [01:46:58] Speaker C: And following the intuition that you have and the feelings that you have, and it demands you to be super present. And I think especially agreed when I had spiritual burnout, there was no way that all my structure was gone. If I can compare myself to this or just kind of go through something or even sometimes I'll just pick it up. And if I just need an encouraging word, if an encouraging card pops out of there randomly, you're like, oh, my gosh, that's just what I needed. [01:47:30] Speaker B: Right? It's like shaking the magic eight ball or whatever. [01:47:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:47:35] Speaker B: Getting that good. [01:47:36] Speaker A: If it's a card that you don't immediately connect with, you can just choose to completely disregard it. You can just go, well, yeah, because. [01:47:41] Speaker C: That'S not true for you. And that's what I love about it, is that you can just say, yeah, that part doesn't really resonate with me. [01:47:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:47:49] Speaker C: And there's really nothing anyone that should become your catchphrase resonating doesn't resonate with me. [01:47:57] Speaker B: No. [01:47:58] Speaker A: Employ that this week. [01:47:59] Speaker B: And I can kind of see also, as much as I don't like astrology and have my issues with it and things like that, when looking at the sort of vagueness of a horoscope and things like that, putting it through this lens, right. I can see this as just something someone can look at, like, look in the newspaper and what does it say for a virgo? And then, how can I process that? And how do I make that true if it's a thing that I would like to be true of me? Or how do I avoid that if that's a thing that I don't want to be true of me, as opposed to this actively being able to be like, oh, me and the million other virgos all have the exact same thing going on. [01:48:39] Speaker C: Well, and I think kind of like when I started exploring spirituality through gardening and connecting with the Earth and being more in tune with the seasons and practicing or celebrating solstice, all those kind of things. All the plants and all the animals on Earth have different seasons in which they enter or different activities that they do. It would make sense that humans also enter the Earth in a certain season, and it affects how they are. [01:49:10] Speaker B: Just like we were talking about the moon last week, it makes sense that. [01:49:14] Speaker A: Things about that I can certainly buy that the moon would know a behavioral impact, certainly. [01:49:21] Speaker C: And all that kind of stuff is on full moons. It's crazy at school, it's crazy for Brennan, it's crazy for customer service. It's always crazy. It makes people it's. Of course, it could be just a quick way to be like, oh, the know or whatever, right. [01:49:38] Speaker B: Mercury retrograde. [01:49:40] Speaker C: We are being affected in some way by the planet. [01:49:44] Speaker A: I believe there's a cult out there, actually, that wants to destroy the moon. I think there's a manifesto point. If we end the moon, then that will sort it all out. Yeah. GRU wanted to do it at one point, didn't he? [01:50:00] Speaker B: He wanted to see he's just literally talking about despicable me. [01:50:03] Speaker C: He's literally talking about me. That's probably what it is. [01:50:12] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm glad you shared this with us, though, because it's a totally different perspective, like I said. And I think my understanding of what this was is different than what it actually is. [01:50:23] Speaker C: This is just my practice, right, of course. My personal practice. And so there would be people who are saying, this is not no, this is prescriptive, but anytime someone comes at me with, like I don't be like. [01:50:36] Speaker B: Who are you to say, right, nice. [01:50:39] Speaker C: That's mine. [01:50:40] Speaker B: It's the consent thing again. Right. Who are you to tell me how spirituality works and how I'm supposed to practice it and all of this kind of stuff? This is how it works for me. [01:50:52] Speaker C: Yeah. And it's given me a lot of confidence and because I think when I started in such a reliant place, being born a sinner and needing help at all times, for me to get into a headspace where it's like, you're in control. You're that bitch. You tell people what's going to work for you. It's just so much more empowering. [01:51:15] Speaker B: Yeah. I really like that. That's awesome. [01:51:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:51:18] Speaker C: Thanks for letting me do it. [01:51:20] Speaker B: Thank you. [01:51:21] Speaker A: Hell of a note to go out on. [01:51:23] Speaker C: There are plenty. I get my Tarot cards read all the time and the people that you can do yourself. [01:51:29] Speaker A: Yeah. Can you read your own? [01:51:29] Speaker C: I guess you I read mine, and I feel like I get more insight doing mine. Like, spiritual insight, obviously. And I've had other Tarot card readers friends who have read mine and given really beautiful insight that they may or may not have had special access to. It's not my job to prove it. All I know is that they said something that really meant a lot to me when they did do. [01:51:53] Speaker A: Yeah, I get that. [01:51:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:51:55] Speaker B: So before we live off here A, I think you wanted to shout out the person who made your sweatshirt that you're wearing. [01:52:05] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. Becky made that on Etsy. [01:52:07] Speaker B: It's a PISCES shirt with, like, a seal of sorts on it. What's the etsy? [01:52:16] Speaker C: Yeah. Her name is becky made that. [01:52:18] Speaker B: Becky made that on the Etsy. [01:52:20] Speaker C: The shop is Becky made that because. [01:52:21] Speaker B: Do you have anywhere you want people to follow you? [01:52:25] Speaker C: You can follow me. Oh, yeah. You want to follow me on Instagram? It's Leanne with four A's so that none of my students can find. [01:52:33] Speaker A: But not what you're saying. [01:52:38] Speaker B: Amazing. Leanne with four A's, which would be yeah. [01:52:43] Speaker C: I have to explain a lot. If you can figure out how to spell my name, you will find me. [01:52:48] Speaker B: Because I'm I'll also post it in the blog, and you can find her there. Thank you for doing this, Leanne. This is an awesome idea, and I'm glad. [01:52:59] Speaker A: Yes. Leanne, it's been fantastic. Great to speak to you again. [01:53:01] Speaker C: Well, you've given us good reads. [01:53:04] Speaker B: Sure. [01:53:05] Speaker A: It didn't have to be, like, also true. Also true. [01:53:07] Speaker C: You're going to die tonight. [01:53:12] Speaker B: One of those demons. [01:53:14] Speaker C: Exactly. To visit. I like how the effect is the sun's just, like, going down, so I'm just going to go into the darkness here. [01:53:23] Speaker A: Yeah, that's very nice. [01:53:24] Speaker B: Really nice. Beautiful. So I will link to Leanne on the Things and dear Jack of All Grace friends, thank you for joining us once again for our December craziness, which will continue as we move on into Mark's birthday week when we will have our watch along next week. [01:53:44] Speaker A: Yes details to follow shortly us to. [01:53:46] Speaker B: Follow and anything else that we should leave them with. [01:53:48] Speaker A: Mark, just stay spooky. Kelly debartok specifically. [01:53:52] Speaker C: Seriously get wisely. [01:53:55] Speaker B: Kelly to bartok.